While Dr. Steinhauer pitches his technology presentation on "Bring Your Own Technology" and the sports groups plead for more fields, in addition to the multi million dollars being spent for the high school sports facility, here is what Chartiers Valley is doing with their money. They are providing 1,325 laptops to their high school students. The students will return them upon graduation.
While our school board discusses the pluses and minuses of auxiliary gyms, spends almost two months discussing
Blue Devil blue, and sports groups rally for more fields, CV students are enjoying the smell of new computers. Go Blue!
Update:
Chartiers Valley secondary students each to get computer,
The One-to-One laptop initiative came about because of feedback from parents, faculty and administrators during last fall's strategic planning process, which determined that integrating technology would improve student enthusiasm for learning and consequently boost achievement.
In Mt. Lebanon, the school board directors will be getting new laptops, to replace the ones that were supplied in the "Go Paperless" test a year ago.
If we could only keep up with Chartiers Valley.
ReplyDelete~Therese McDowell
I can only imagine the complaining and uproar should Lebo even think of providing laptops to students. The folks complaining about the high school renovation would blow a gasket!
ReplyDeleteI published this anonymous comment, but it will be the last for this thread. I think the folks complaining about the high school would think this is money well spent. Notice what is on the back of the CV computer, "preparing our students for success." At MTL, we prepare our students for sports scholarships.
ReplyDeleteElaine
10:32-- wouldn't ever occur to you to engage in an open conversation.
ReplyDeleteStick with your narrow-minded myopic vision of your fellow residents.
I for one would rather see my tax dollars go to technology that actually benefits the students than build the high school the board now plans.
Rather than falling for Mrs. Posti's constant barrage about school funding cuts, opposition to vouchers and blah, blah blah go online and read how some progressive districts are serving their students.
No, second thought stick with the "party" line, you're far more comfortable there!
Dick Saunders
You know 10:32 actually it is more important that we provide school board members with laptops so that they may, if needed, exchange info privately in public meetings.
ReplyDeleteDick Saunders
Elaine, are families who enjoy athletics the root of all the evil in the world or just in Lebo? I can assure you that a very large number of us have the same objections to the school project as you do. My own objections (as Mr. Huston would note from the record) are all well documented. However, to suggest that the school district is falling short because of athletics is - as Mr. Saunders suggests - a narrow-minded myopic vision of your fellow residents.
ReplyDeleteDave Franklin
Dave, thank you for showing the courage to sign your name.
ReplyDeleteThe CV superintendent implemented this initiative as a result from feedback concerning the strategic plan. Here in Lebo, the Board and staff ignore results or even worse, bury the results of surveys, that are used for our strategic plan. Their priorities are a little messed up. Do you think taking almost two months to choose the correct shade of blue is is time well spent for our children's education? But we have to keep our sports groups happy.
As I said at the meeting, my son is quite athletic. He was in cross country (got out in time!) and is quite a skate boarder. But in this town, you get citations for skateboarding. So it isn't all about sports, it is about certain sports that get all the special treatment.
If our balanced report card was improving, or test scores were going up, that would be different. Count how many targets were met here:
http://www.mtlsd.org/BalancedScorecard/BalancedScorecardExt.aspx
Elaine
Let's try that again.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mtlsd.org/
BalancedScorecard/
BalancedScorecardExt.aspx
I forgot to mention that my kids played basketball, baseball, soccer, and girls' softball. My husband coached girls' softball. So let's try to focus here. We're now comparing ourselves to Chartiers Valley. How many people will want to pay our high taxes when they can move to Scott where their kids will get their own computers while our kids' scores drop?
ReplyDeleteElaine
So Mr. Franklin there is hope! Bantering back and forth, exchanging info and discussing priorities is the way the blogs should work.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately the lines of communication have broken down so far that no one can say anything for fear of an attack.
I won't speak for anyone but myself. Yes, athletics are important and I have and do support them. Is the amount I believe we should spend cast in stone- No. Is my amount now the same as 4 years ago or 4 years into tomorrow. Probably not, depends on a multitude of factors.
Can I be persuaded to change my position, sure. Can you? Or are you dead set and unwavering in your wants? Do you gotta have it NOW!
Gentleman officials, like Dan Miller will engage in fair, open debate. I feel certain that he heard me, evaluated my evidence and cast his vote.
Unfortunately the same doesn't hold true for the school board and that has opened a gulf in this community that unfortunately won't heal until the current members are gone or have made some huge concessions to real transparency and real honest communication.
The Sable incident- in which we were on the same side of the street- was the launching of the distrust the community live in now.
Its a shame, I thought we were all neighbors.
Dick Saunders
Exactly Elaine . . . focus. You took the jab at high school athetics on a post about laptops, not me. Also, I don't think anyone is comparing CV and Lebo.
ReplyDeleteMy point is this . . . using the athletic dept or youth athletics as the punchline for every issue does nothing to advance your position or add credibility to your argument - especially on issues totally unrelated to athletics. James Fraasch himself made this exact point on either this site or Blog Lebo several months ago.
Mr. Saunders, I've never supported a grand high school athletic complex at the expense of the overall good. Not once. To be honest, I couldn't even give you the details of what has been proposed for athletic facilities as part of the high school renovation. I certainly supported upgrading those facilities as part of the overall project, especially when I was told by my SB that it could all be done for $95 million. In my opinion, we would have been stupid not to do it all for that number if our goal is to remain a first class district.
However, we've just witnessed that everything has changed and we now need to see what we can do with that amount of money - or perhaps even less. I also agree that the SB has a serious credibility problem at this point. I just don't choose to lump the community into 2 categories - those who support athletics and those who don't.
As for the McNeilly project, I think it's the right thing to do now, especially since we purchased the property for this purpose nearly a decade ago. The municipality has not made any sizable investments in new recreation since the ice rink (someone will correct me if I'm wrong). However, if others would prefer to spend that same money on improving what we have vs. new construction, I can change my mind. Regardless of which is preferable, I simply believe that on the municipal side we have the need and the opportunity to improve the field space in our community.
Dave Franklin
Going back to playing the not adding credibility to my argument card again, huh? I guess pictures, a link to the District balanced scorecard, a link to our plagiarizing president's blog (P.P. Posti, for short) about what shade of blue we should be, and a link to a newspaper article, add nothing to my credibility.
ReplyDeleteBottom line is that CV is buying laptops for ALL of their high school students, while we hear presentations that our kids are to bring their own. And yes, people ARE comparing us to CV.
Sigh . . . I didn't need a picture of the laptop to confirm what I read in P-G but thanks. I could care less about the shade of blue and I don't read Posti's blog. If someone wants to choose CV over Lebo for their kids, I suppose that's their choice. If you know someone considering that option, feel free to put them in touch with me. I'll do my very best to convince them that they are making a mistake.
ReplyDeleteDave Franklin
Although I'd like to see how Chartiers Valley intends to integrate these computers into its programs, I congratulate CV on taking a step in the right direction. Pedagogy does not consist in buildings alone, and it seems CV has payed some tribute to that fact.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm on the subject, the entire education delivery and instructional system needs a thorough overhaul. Teachers and their unions must stop behaving like modern day Luddites, and administrations and school boards everywhere should accept advice from outside the government education structure; too many good ideas are jettisoned because they were “not invented here.”
Richard Gideon
Mr. Franklin I never accused you of supporting a grand athletic complex.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I believe you actually argued for substantially less spending on the high school than the board desires. So on that point we agree. I do think there are factions that are focused too intensely on HS athletics. May be if we put our efforts into responding to board actions rather than pounding on each other we might just arrive at a package we all can live with.
Unfortunately Dave, I happen to think it is more prudent to enhance the muni. recreation facilities we have rather than pour good money after bad into either the McNeilly or Twin Hills sites. Nor do I think we needed a climbing wall at the pool.
Maybe when the economy recovers we can undertake some project at one or both of the sites... just not now.
See we CAN talk things out rationally. Wonder if others can?
Dick Saunders
Just read your last comment Dave. I would suggest that you read Posti's blog closely. Not to catch her at some slip or misstatement, but rather to understand her agenda.
ReplyDeleteI could be wrong, but I don't think it is centered in serving the students or her constituents. Instead every article seems to lean towards maintaining the status quo.
I argue that is not good. Others think we should stand still while proclaiming they're marching into the 21st century... about 11 years too late.
Dick Saunders
Agreed Dick.
ReplyDeleteAnd before we canonize CV, I thought I should share this from the Post Gazette in February 2004:
Chartiers Valley schools renovation passes on surprise vote
There was no hint on the Chartiers Valley school board agenda last week that a $29.5 million district wide renovation program would come up for a vote. But a vote was taken after an hour-long discussion that began with parking issues at the bus garage and then shifted to the more controversial topic of renovation and addition options at the middle/high school. During the discussion, it appeared the majority of directors liked a proposal that would construct a separate, two-story ‘academic/athletic/community complex’ opposite the gymnasium and natatorium. The building would be connected to the school by a catwalk. Board President Tom Helbig then called for a vote to authorize the entire renovation program. It passed 6-3. At issue was the cost and need for the complex, which is being referred to by some directors as a field house or athletic center.
Dave Franklin
Dick, I hate to put you on the spot, but I've heard several people tell me that we should do McNeilly and just about anything else "when the economy recovers." In all seriousness and with no intention of antagonizing, what is your litmus test or threshold for the "recovery"? Is it local recovery? If so, at what level? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteDave Franklin
Not on the spot Dave and a good question.
ReplyDeleteI would think when unemploment falls into reasonable levels say 7%or less, when we've solved the pension mess for public employees and when the general economy is growing at better than 1% or local EIT shows better gains.
There are some rec. project that need to be done granted, McNeilly and TH could wait.
Dick Saunders
In further response Dave Franklin read this on Huffington Post Business. PART 1
ReplyDelete"As we look forward to this Friday's August unemployment snapshot from the Department of Labor, one part of the picture is already in focus: this was the worst summer on record for teens and young adults looking for work.
This July, the typical summertime peak of youth employment, the share of young people with a job was just 48.8 percent, according to fresh data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This represents the lowest July rate since the Bureau began collecting such data, in 1948. Perhaps this grim statistic explains in part why the labor force participation rate -- those working or looking for work -- for Americans aged 16 to 24 also fell a percentage point from the previous summer to a record low of 59.5, as more kids simply gave up looking.
"There are numbers of unpleasant consequences of this," said Carl E. Van Horn, a labor economist at Rutgers University and one of the authors of the recent report "Unfulfilled Expectations: Recent College Graduates Struggle in a Troubled Economy." "Increased poverty, increased reliance on social safety net programs, potential increases in illegal or off the books work, perhaps illegal actives like crime, idleness, lack of skills, atrophy of skills, inability to get a job later when the labor market gets better -- the list goes on and on."
Huffinton Post Article PART 2.
ReplyDelete"With so many other indicators pointing to a struggling economy and a stagnant labor market -- weak GDP growth, overall unemployment above 9 percent, an uptick in corporate layoffs -- economists say it's no surprise that the young are unable to find work.
"The economy continues to be very weak. This point cannot be over-emphasized," said Algernon Austin, director of the Race, Ethnicity and the Economy Program at the Economic Policy Institute. "So we have, even in this group, at this young age, individuals who may have tried several summers, or for a year or more since completing high school or completing college, and have not been able to to find work."
A falling labor force participation rate can generally be attributed to two things: when the job market looks bleak, the longterm unemployed either go back to school or they give up looking. While part of the record-low labor force participation rate for youth can be attributed to higher education, economists say that the majority can not.
"When there's an absence of a supply of jobs, employers are able to bid up," Van Horn said. "When someone steps up with a Bachelor's degree to get a job that used to be held by a high school student, that [student] gets pushed out of the labor market."
The labor force participation rate is at a record low for American workers of all ages. But economists and sociologists say that a growing group of young Americans, so frustrated by their fruitless search for employment that they give up looking entirely, could have its own unique and troubling consequences -- not just in the immediate future but for decades to come, according to experts.
"People who are the economic victims of recessions bear a burden that goes on beyond the duration of the recession," Van Horn explained. Those hardest hit, he said, are young workers and older workers, laid off and unable to find new employment. "These two groups really are going to pay the heaviest price. The older workers can't get back into the labor market and the younger workers can't get in to begin with."
Within these groups, the pain is not evenly spread. According to Algernon Austin's research, compiled from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and additional sources of data, black teens are the least likely to find summer work, while rich white teens are most likely. Other economists have found similar trends.
"The substantial drop in teen employment prospects has had a devastating effect on the nation’s youngest teens (16-17), males, blacks, low income youth, and inner city, minority males," wrote Andrew Sum in a report on teen summer employment for the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University. "Those youth who need work experience the most get it the least, another example of the upside down world of labor markets in the past decade."
FOLLOW HUFFPOST BUSINESS
Dick Saunders
On the surface, the CVSD decision to provide laptops to their high school students is a laudable effort to improve the educational experience of their students. The real challenges are to integrate the technology into the curriculum and to keep pace with technology. Let's face reality, by the time a student graduates, the laptop technology is several generations old and most likely obsolete.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, it might be better to invest in a sophisticated website design that provides information and resources to the student. Website upgrades are much more cost-effective methods to utilize the available technology, keeping the content fresh while driving down operational costs. Most homes now possess some type of computer, which can access the site for relevant information, so why spend on disposable technology that may or may not be an effective learning aid?
As a parent of one Mt. Lebo grad and one currently in the high school program, I am very satisfied with the level of education my children have received.
I do have concerns that the high school renovation is ill-timed, disorganized and too costly as currently presented. However, we do need to make our best effort to provide a well-balanced facility that gets the educational job accomplished. In addition to curriculum, athletics, music and fine arts are cornerstones of a well-rounded educational experience. I am a firm believer that the physical structure of the school does not represent the quality of the education, but the structures do need to be maintained to the best of the district's fianancial ability.
Chuck, overall I agree with you, MTL offers an abundance of experiences in arts, athletics, curriculum etc. Hopefully the renovation won't suck the life blood ($$$$) from any of them.
ReplyDeleteThere does though seem to be a disconcerting drop in some measures as well in the Harris poll stakeholder satisfaction.
Which the board has been fairly successful in keeping out of the public eye. You just know if the result of that poll were more favorable, it'd be published everywhere.
As for laptops you're right, they do seem passé. iPads and associated software or similar devices seem to be the next wave. Too bad our administration and board is mired in bricks and mortar.
Dick Saunders
Dick,
ReplyDeleteI’d like to suggest that iPads and other locked-down devices are not as useful for students as are full-featured, open computing devices that can run a wide range of high-quality open-source software such as the Maxima computer algebra system; the R statistical computing system; SAGE open mathematics system; SciPy tools for science, mathematics, and engineering; and a host of free, open, and powerful software development tools.
Giving students the learning tools that someone else creates is limiting. It confines them to someone else’s idea of what learning should be. Instead, I want students to have the tools to create their own tools. Because then students can do things – and learn things – we couldn’t imagine.
Cheers,
Tom
I'm going to say this at the risk of making a few people lose their minds... but... it must be said.
ReplyDeleteYou have a possible 1 candidate change in the school board in the upcoming election. I say that because only 1 guy is running who has a different opinion than the current board.
There have been cries of "they need to resign" or "we need to impeach the board" but do you think, with them practically re-elected with almost zero campaigning, they even care what you say? You could go to the meetings with a new crew and a riot and they'd just laugh. They'd spin it as "That's just a vocal minority. Everyone else supports us." They'll point to their re-election as proof.
Until there's a risk of a challenge at the poll, the board WILL NOT CARE what you say.
Time is running out. Why don't we focus our attention at a write-in campaign for School Board members who think for themselves and truly represent our values? Pointing fingers and arguing that a ball field here is important vs not, while being a nice exercise in debating, is pretty much pointless.
Jack, I was thinking of writing in four ficticious names. You are absolutely right about the Board not caring. I don't believe that all the directors need to go, but I certainly think some of them need to go. I am willing to help with a write in campaign, but I don't think we could come up with enough people willing to run. I can't get people to record policy meetings, let alone to commit to a four year term. How about this? Email me at EGillen476@aol.com if anyone would be interested in running for School Board.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Dick,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your feedback on my post. I agree that facilities, athletic, arts or academic should not be so extravagent to suck the life out of the taxpayers. However all of the facilities should have been reviewed prior to placing them into the renovation plans. Needs, not wants should have been the guiding factor.
I am a big proponent of youth and school sports. I am co-president of the MLGSA and also coach travel basketball for the community. Many shots have been taken at the sports programs, some warranted, some not so warranted.
However, there are some facts that are not presentd in many of the posts on this site. First, SOME of the costs of facilities maintenance are loaded into participation fees. For example, the MLGSA adds $12.00/registration for the YSA, which equates to around $8000.00/season. Additionally, I believe that travel basketball pays $7.00/registration for YSA maintenance fees. This is the case for many other sports organizatons in our community. Although not enough to defray the entire maintenance costs associated with the facilities, it is a large aggregate contribution.
Due to limited facilities, the MTL travel basketball teams are forced to "borrow" gym time from CV for our games. Thus far, CV has been very gracious, but at some point, we will begin impacting their ability to use their own gyms.
This is a long way from laptops, but I beliee tht some of these details need to be presented in some forum.
Thanks for commenting Chuck. Those who showed up in support of the McNeilly project made many of those same points, including the YSA contribution, the personal time and money spent maintaining the fields and even a willingness to consider future capital contributions and user fees once the fields are developed. Several people also pointed out that the youth lacrosse program rents field space in Scott Twp for a significant amount of money.
ReplyDeleteThe perception that youth sports take more than they give is unfortunate, and in my opinion just not true. As I have noted already, the fields and gyms that we use today are the same that were in use 2 generations ago. My 9 year old uses the same baseball fields that my 70 year old father played on. The youth sports programs (and especially travel programs) are 100% funded by the families who participate in them. There has been no new investment in recreational facilities for decades. So overall, I'm somewhat at a loss as to where the negativity comes from, unless of course it is simply spill over from those who believe that that new or revamped facilities included in the high school project are over the top.
Dave Franklin
Chuck,
ReplyDeleteThank you for writing such a thoughtful comment and explaining the fee structure of the various sports groups. My husband had told me there was a fist fight in his living room the year he was president of Girls' Softball when teams were being chosen. We were big proponents of youth sports. We had to make wake up calls and took teams for ice cream and to McDonalds afterwards. We spent many days trying to clean up fields. So here are my questions. Are the fees that you folks are paying being used properly? Are the fees being paid to the School District or the Municipality? Or both?
And what is CV doing that we aren't doing? Their millage is lower. They have laptops for all their high school students. And now you tell me that they share their gyms with us. MTLSD also asked Scott to use their tennis courts for four or five years. What are we doing wrong?
Elaine
Chuck, you wrote: "Due to limited facilities, the MTL travel basketball teams are forced to "borrow" gym time from CV for our games. Thus far, CV has been very gracious, but at some point, we will begin impacting their ability to use their own gyms."
ReplyDeleteThat has been one of the reasons I've been opposed to the HS project. Why on earth would we be spending over $100 million for something less than we have now. One of the options to keep the project ubder the $113 referendum limit has been to delete a gym. Makes no sense whatsoever!
If I remeber correctly the CAC plan had quite a few sports amenities. # gyms, and indoor running track, pool and lockerroom improvements.
Not paying to tear and dispose of building C, and therefore not having to construct a NEW comparable building G frees up a lot of money for quality amenities and refinements as I see it.
Possibly also making taxpayers more ameniable to muni field improvements.
Dick Saunders
Elaine,
ReplyDeleteThe following are answers to your questions:
In my opinion, the fees do not stretch as far as they used to. Although some of the basic maintenance (grass cutting) gets done, a great deal of field maintenance is done by the individual organizations. Baseball has purchased several pieces of equipment to keep the fields in decent playing condition. Fields are dragged on at least a weekly basis. With that being said, there are many areas where the maintenance is not as it should be. Fences are showing their age, weeds are growing around the perimeter of the fields and many fields need to be graded for water run-off.
I know that the softball association pays the Porta-John rental fees for fields without lavatory facilities. We also share utility costs for field lighting and field dry with baseball.
When basketball does get an MTL gym, the coaches are responsible for settng up prior to and cleaning up after each game. In fact, the association has purchased a spare scoreboard control unit for the North Gym.
The YSA fees are paid to the district, but they are used to maintain both district and municipal facilities.
As I grew up in Scott Township, I think that I can comment on the difference in philosophy. Many years ago, CVSD mad a conscious decision to centralize their educational facilities. All of the local schools were sold off and replaced by a primary, intermediate, middle and high school facility. It is of interest to me that the CV High School complex was built at the same time as the MTL renovaton inthe 1970's. Outside of some changes to acommodate the middle school in this complex, the structure is relatively the same as when I attended in the 1970's. At this time, I know of no plans for any significant changes to their facilities other than maintenance. Perhaps the administration at that time had much greater foresight than those in the MLSD.
So to your point, MTL is not doing anything "wrong". Our philosophy is to promote multiple neighborhood schools within walking distance of home, which is probably a more expensive option.
In some regards, CV has had a windfall, as the old state owned Woodville facility was converted to Nevillewood. I don't have any data available, but it stands to reason that this created a large influx of tax revenues, whereas MTL does not have this type of wild card in their hand due to an almost 100% build out in the community.
I hope this answers tour questions in a cogent manner!
Chuck, i think it is also worth mentioning to the registrations fees also cover uniforms, umpires, referees, equipment, paramedics, website fees, insurance, field rental fees, permits, fundraising, and other costs that I'm forgetting. Its not inexpensive to run a league for 1,000 kids. We also fund registration fees for families that cannot afford them. We dont have huge kitty left over and we're at or beyond the spending limit for many families and risk losing kids who want to play.
ReplyDeleteChuck, didn't CV spend $25 million in 2004 to develop a new full scale athletic complex?
Dave Franklin
Dave, that question sounds like you are comparing CV and Lebo. I think it was you who said, "Also, I don't think anyone is comparing CV and Lebo."
ReplyDeleteSo they have a lower millage rate. They have more gyms. According to you, they have a full scale athletic complex and you are going to tell me that people are going to move here? They even have more technology, at the moment.
It is wonderful that your 9 year old plays baseball on the same fields as your father did. That is quite a legacy. But what is your point? The legendary Fenway Park opened in 1912. It was a thrill for us to be in that stadium, as it was when we sat in the bleachers at Wrigley Field. Does it really matter how old the fields are?
Elaine
Good grief Elaine, my comment about CV was in response to Chuck's comment that CV has made no significant improvements since the 70s. And yes, I stand by statement that if choosing between the 2 districts, it's a no brainer.
ReplyDeleteDave Franklin
Good grief, Dave, is that all you got out of my comment?
ReplyDeleteYep. Sorry to disappoint.
ReplyDeleteDave Franklin
Do any of you consider yourselves education professionals? Do you seriously think that having a computer in front of a student all day everyday is a good thing? I have to think that some of you were the same people complaining about how today's youth does not spend enough time in 1:1 communication with others. High school laptops will not create any advantage for anyone. There are already numerous places inside and outside of school were students have access to PC's. What advantage will this give anyone? Also, what value will these machines have after 4 years? None. how about we ask our teachers to teach rather than have a software program do it for them? If this is what you want there is always PA Cyber.
ReplyDeleteI know this person didn't sign this comment, but I thought the Administration should see this.
ReplyDeleteSince THEY are the education professionals, not everyone is thrilled with 21st century learning.
Dave,
ReplyDeleteIn response to your comment, I refer you back to your post of 8/29 @ 4:50 PM.
CV did take a vote on upgrading their facilities for multiple purposes in 2004. In a narrow sense, it could have been construed as an athletic facilities upgrade.
To: Anonymous (August 30, 2011 8:54 PM )
ReplyDeleteWith respect to your first question, “Do any of you consider yourselves education professionals?”; yes. My plea is 23 years of teaching experience at the post-secondary and high school levels. With respect to your second question, “Do you seriously think that having a computer in front of a student all day everyday is a good thing?”; no. Is that what Chartiers Valley has in mind? At this writing I don't know what CV's plans are for its laptops, but I would like to know so I could better inform my opinion.
In an educational setting (indeed, in any setting!), the first consideration is how a new technology will be used, not what form that technology will take. If CV had announced that they were instituting “distance learning” by offering courses on-line I would have also said, as I did in my post on 29 August, “I congratulate CV on taking a step in the right direction.” We are all aware of how colleges and universities have incorporated computers into their curricula, and I have seen no objections to that usage on this Blog. In addition, I'm sure most of the readers and contributors to this Blog are aware of the remarkable success of such “distance learning” schools as the University of Phoenix.
I would posit that any education delivery system that suits the needs of the end user and is measurably successful is a good thing.
I would also posit that a successful educational delivery system should not be restricted to a government run school district with elaborate buildings; but that's another topic.
Richard Gideon
David Franklin, there are families who have their sports fees paid, the young and the elderly are shut out of the job market. How can Mt. Lebanon support taxes for fields on top of taxes for the high school? Sarah Morris
ReplyDeleteI'm only one tax payer Ms. Morris, but I'm in favor of the McNeilly project and some form of improvements to the high school. I'll also gladly pick up the tab so that someone else's kid can play sports.
ReplyDeleteLook at it this way, if we toss the McNeilly plan and only work to improve or upgrade the facilities we already have (as has been suggested by several opponents of the McNeilly plan), we would still have to raise taxes.
Heck, even if we don't touch our recreational facilities at all, our taxes are going up next year. If it's truly a matter of reducing taxes then why don't people aim their sights on where the really BIG dollars go in our municipal budget.
I don't think we can use the fear of a tax increase as a reason not to improve. As I mentioned in my remarks to the Commissioners last week, no one ever moved to or stayed in Mt. Lebanon to pay lower taxes.
Dave Franklin
Chuch B. made a very good point when he wrote: "In some regards, CV has had a windfall, as the old state owned Woodville facility was converted to Nevillewood. I don't have any data available, but it stands to reason that this created a large influx of tax revenues, whereas MTL does not have this type of wild card in their hand due to an almost 100% build out in the community."
ReplyDeleteAnd there in lies the problem. MTL isn't going to see any windfall, at least not in the foreseeable future.
So while we gained a Primanti's, the tax increase is very minimal unless the previous occupant didn't pay any property tax. EIT and Occupation tax income will be negligible also. So its a zero gain or loss. Same as for any property in the community. The hotel may bring open some jobs and increase revenue in some Washington Road establishments, but MTL will reap little of that unless they find some way to tap into sales tax.
SO, increasing expenses and future maintenance with no new revenue streams is a fools game.
Dick Saunders
So what should we do Dick? Just throw in the towel and be dictated by those who want to bar the door and do nothing? That's pretty shallow.
ReplyDeleteDave Franklin
This my final post... Mr. Franklin, apparently you have the means and the will to spend like there is no tomorrow. I unfortunately don't.
ReplyDeleteAnd contrary to the picture you try to paint of someone that wants to "throw in the towel" nothing could be further from the truth.
But that is what you want to believe, must believe-- so go at it!!!!
You'll get your way Mr. Franklin, as those did that wanted the Twin Hills and McNeilly properties. Enjoy!
Dick Saunders