I went to the Policy Committee meeting today at 4:30. It was nice to see Dr. Steinhauer recording the meeting which will be shared on the District website tomorrow.
I uploaded the entire podcast on the Lebocitizens website. The meeting lasted about an hour. I was the only resident again. Matt Santoni, from the Trib, was also in attendance.
For the citizens comments and questions portion of the meeting - the last five minutes of the meeting, one of the things I brought up was the Posti/ plagiarism issue. I mentioned page 13 of the 2011-2012 Student & Parent Handbook which is supposed to be used as a current reference to the many school district policies, procedures, guidelines, rules and services that apply to the high school, according to Mr. Brian McFeeley, Principal. Please listen to the last five minutes of the meeting, which I have provided here. My comments about Posti. Our kids are required to demonstrate academic integrity and are expected to refrain from academic dishonesty. They are to report any knowledge of such acts of others. So when I reported Posti's actions, I was wrong for doing it and was criticized by Posti. Larry Lebowitz considered them as allegations using his lawyer voice. The policy committee would not respond since it was not on the agenda and Mrs. Posti wasn't there to defend herself. I pointed out that none of the school board members reported this behavior and yet, they expect students to report this. Again, do as I say, not as I do. I guess I am supposed to go to a school board meeting and bring it up there. Then Posti can publicly humiliate me again. Then each Board member will say something like how disrespectful I am, or some such thing. Unfortunately, I work on Monday nights now, so I will not be able to give them the satisfaction of doing that. We don't stand a chance, Folks. I feel really sorry for the kids.
I wonder how allegations of plagiarism by the president of the school board cannot come within the purview of the policy committee--isn't this just the kind of matter that the full board would refer to committee in the first instance--it seems to me just another "delay, deflect, deny" tactic--it is time for the school board to allow itself to be petitioned for grievance by the citizens---unless we are being sent the message that the school board recognizes no non-complacent citizen....what is democracy all about?
ReplyDeletePerhaps the committee did not recognize the subject matter as having any significance to the work of the school board---what would that say about them and the manner in which they approach their responsibilities?
ReplyDeleteElaine,
ReplyDeleteI listened to the recording and, while I agree with your argument in general, I don't think the policy committee is at all the right place to present it. That committee makes policy, reviews policy, and revises policy; that's it. What did you expect them to do with your complaint?
Now, if you had expressed your complaint in the form of a suggestion to create new policy or to revise existing policy, maybe the policy committee would have had something you could reasonably expect them to act upon. For example, the Social Networking Policy under consideration includes (at least in the draft I reviewed) the following:
Employees are reminded that they are professionals and are representatives of both the District and the community in all aspects of their lives and should conduct themselves accordingly when utilizing social media/networking.
You could have read this passage and recommended to the committee that they expand it to cover not only employees but also school directors. And then you could have shared a motivating example, perhaps something drawn from recent events, to justify the expansion.
But, as it was, you presented the committee with something no reasonable person would expect them to act upon. That they didn't act upon it, then, doesn't seem like much evidence against their integrity.
Cheers,
Tom
Silly me. Since I will be working on Monday night, Tom, maybe you can show me how a reasonable person should handle it. You did uncover 11 more examples.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Tom, if you reread my post and listen to my comment, I had an issue with the Student and Parent Handbook. Their expectations of students are too high. They expect the kids to turn in other students. Do as I say, not as I do. In your words though, "But, as it was, you [I] presented the committee with something no reasonable person would expect them to act upon."
ReplyDeleteElaine
The Policy Committee could have said we will take your comments back to the Board to see if other Board Members want this issue to come up for possible review. Then the Board could have decided to ask the Policy Committee to suggest reasonable review and changes to existing policy as they did in the case of financial forms. I think that would have been a reasonable response to Mrs. Gillen because the Board often gives direction to the Policy Committee.
ReplyDeleteAnother reasonable response would have been that the Policy Committee will review our Policies to assure they are aligned with the expectations we demand of students and parents with regard to the issue Mrs. Gillen raised.
As the response stands now students and parents are held to a standard the Policy Committee decided they would ignore when it applied to someone who votes like they do (on the issue of plagiarism), but the financial forms issue was enforced against someone who did not vote the way they do. Double standards are not what we should be teaching our children.
John Ewing
Former Policy Committee Chair
Elaine, I listened to your comments twice, and I did not get the impression that you were requesting a policy discussion. The impression I got was that you were citing policy merely to underscore your real point, which seemed to be that the conduct of the school board's president was troubling and that something ought to be done about it and that, so far, nothing had. Further, your concluding question did not ask about policy; it did, however, ask about what was going to happen with the whole plagiarism thing. Which, again, the policy committee shouldn't be touching with a ten-foot pole.
ReplyDeleteIf you want a change to the Student and Parent Handbook, that's probably not the way to go about getting it.
Cheers,
Tom
Time and time again, the Mt. Lebanon school board violates its own policies. I am sure the same board is quick to point out policy when it comes to student discipline.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the justice?
David Huston
NO, our kids cannot get away with this. My child just entered 9th grade at MLHS. The second day of school he was assigned with watching a video on plagarism on the district website. There was a 2-page quiz he was to take after watching it and one question related to citing sources. There was a list of consequences as well. Ridiculous that our kids are held to higher standards!!!
ReplyDeleteTom: How about the Policy Committee reviewing the question of whether the conduct of the school board president is consistent with the policies of the district? What other committee would take that up? Of course it is the particularly correct forum for the complaint. The issue is just the ongoing game of "keep away" in which access to our government is blocked by a small cabal of control freaks who cannot tolerate diversity of opinion or any dissention from their constituents. The school board and its committees are dysfunctional and the treatment meted out to Elaine and the issue she legitimately raises is a clear demonstration of that fact. At the very least, assuming you are correct (which I do not concede but address here, arguendo), the least the committee chairman should have done is receive the complaint and supporting evidence on behalf of the board and refer it back to the president (who I remind you is the subject of the complaint--a catch-22?) for consideration. This is not brain surgery, it is pretty obvious what the game is.
ReplyDeleteTom,
ReplyDeletewhy are you supporting a school board President and a policy Chair who are undermining our teachers' authority to teach our children to be honest in citing sources. How can any Policy be upheld if the Board President is found to have violated the plagiarism Policy 14 times? Do you believe it matters that the Board models behavior that supports the teachers and the curriculum, Tom?
John Ewing
Of course, there’s a double standard here! There ought to be. Why should students and school-board presidents be judged by the same standards? They are not the same.
ReplyDeleteYes, it’s hugely embarrassing for our school district to have its most vocal, most visible leader caught doing something as base as plagiarizing. But it’s not a betrayal of the Student and Parent Handbook, nor of any other school policy for students. Further, it’s not a matter for the Policy Committee because there is no need – nor should there be a need – for a policy stating what the public obviously expects of school leaders:
Representatives of the school district, especially those on prominent public display and authorized to speak on behalf of the district, shall not embarrass the school district and Mt. Lebanon by doing things that the public considers intellectually and academically low.
Why should there be a policy for this? Why would anyone suspect that the president of the school board, of all people, would need to be told not to go within a hundred feet of anything looking remotely like plagiarism? Most people, including the school board, are probably still trying to make sense of it all. Therefore, I don’t think it’s fair to conclude that the school board is content to ignore the situation. I doubt the school board even understands the situation.
Tom, are you really advocating a double standard?
ReplyDeleteYour entitled to your opinion of course and contrary to another resident that compares blog interaction to bomb throwing and assasination Fallujah style I would like to hear more!
Tell me how does a Mt. Lebanon teacher explain the double standard when they have to teach the plagiarism policy to their students?
OK kids, don't cheat while you're students, but once you become an adult forget standards, they no longer count! Nice philosophy!
Signed
Curious for Further Explanation Resident
"Divorced from ethics, leadership is reduced to management and politics to mere technique."
ReplyDelete--James MacGregor Burns
Pretty much sums up the topic for me.
Tom you sais, "there is no need – nor should there be a need – for a policy stating what the public obviously expects of school leaders:" Why did the Board think the financial statements were Important if your statement is true?
ReplyDeleteDo you think it is proper for the Board to be militated by dishonest athletic supporters and do you believe it matters that the Board models behavior that supports the teachers and the curriculum?
John Ewing
John, I'm not supporting bad behavior, by our elected representatives or by anybody else. I'm saying that, if you have a valid compliant, you shouldn't throw it away by delivering it to the wrong audience in the wrong package.
ReplyDeleteTom, I'm amazed you support a double standard. The Board has a double standard for their school building expense. They are going to take $900,000 out of the Food Budget to pay for kitchen equipment that will cost over and above the referendum limit. Didn't you post if they did that they would hear from you?
ReplyDeleteWhy are you now satisfied with a double standard that undermines what our teachers teach in the curriculum?
How do you propose keeping a good staff if you undermine their teaching efforts?
John Ewing
I wish the meeting was televised. When I said that ALL the SB members violated Policy BBA since they did not report this, they all looked like deer caught in headlights. Just another disadvantage to listening to a meeting instead of watching one.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Is it really so hard to get what I'm saying? I'm saying that the president of the school board, or any person whose conduct reflects strongly on the community and school district, ought to be held to a higher standard than students. When a student does something like plagiarizing, it reflects poorly on the student. When the president of the school board does it, it reflects poorly on Mt. Lebanon and, especially, its schools.
ReplyDeleteGet it? There ought to be two separate standards because the public expects more from school-board presidents than students.
Tom, OK lets say you've convinced everyone that there should be two standards.
ReplyDeleteNOW WHAT??????
Tom, I think you and I are agreeing using different words and coming from different points of view. I agree the President of the Board should be held to a higher standard and I think the Policy Chair will agree with us although he may speak about it behind closed doors to keep the Board's reputation in tact.
ReplyDeleteJohn Ewing
Mr. Moertel's 2:24pm post makes a valid point. It also brings out one of the problems of writing in English for a general audience; sometimes the usage of a word or phrase is used in a correct but not generally recognized context and is therefore not clearly understood by the reader. “Double standard” actually has several connotations to it, not all of them negative. I will admit that I had to go back to his post of 10:14am and re-read it in order to “get it.” Having said that, I think I would have worded the first couple of sentences in his 10:14am post a bit differently, but all of the correspondents on this Blog have different writing styles.
ReplyDeleteThat written, as to whether Tom Moertel advocates a negative double-standard, I think Mr. Moertel has acquitted his position. The board must not only be held to the same standards they expect of students, but additional, higher standards as well; ones befitting education professionals.
Richard Gideon
OK seems that the expectation of a higher standard exist... by Elaine, Tom, John, Richard, Steve and who know whom else.
ReplyDeleteOnce again... NOW WHAT???
This problem is with the question of "now what", there is an absence of an answer. There are no written penalties for any elected official who plagiarizes. With regards to Ms. Posti, short of her voluntarily resigning (not going to happen) the only option available is complaining, however futile and frustrating that option is. There is a second option, but Ms. Posti is not up for re-election for another two years.
ReplyDeleteTom wrote: "Further, it’s not a matter for the Policy Committee because there is no need – nor should there be a need – for a policy stating what the public obviously expects of school leaders:
ReplyDelete'Representatives of the school district, especially those on prominent public display and authorized to speak on behalf of the district, shall not embarrass the school district and Mt. Lebanon by doing things that the public considers intellectually and academically low.'"
If this policy exist then surely some sort of penalty or repercussion exist if it is broken...no?
I would think that would justify Ms. Gillen's appearance at the Policy meeting! The Policy Committee should have given her information on procedures and penalties for breaking the above mentioned policy. Otherwise WHY have one in the first place?
As I wrote to someone privately, it is frustrating that people are afraid or won't stand up publicly with their beliefs. Look at all the anonymous comments. I don't know what else I can do. I went to the Trib. I exposed it on my blog. I wrote a letter to Posti and copied the Board. I went to the Policy meeting. And they aren't going to do a thing about it. It is real easy to say that I am doing it wrong. It would be nice if others would step up. The Board is loving it.
ReplyDeleteElaine
You didn't do it wrong Elaine. You did it right, it's the Policy Committee that came up short!
ReplyDeleteTheir policies are either empty words or lacking in enforcement.
Thank you. I wish you would have used your name. I am going back to not posting anonymous comments, unless it would affect a student academically. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteElaine