Mt. Lebanon's Attack Against PA Public Charter Schools
The following article is from Mt.Lebanon resident and frequent commenter, Richard Gideon. Richard, thank you for taking the time to visit YSWP and share your experience with us.
A very interesting read, Mr. Gideon on a topic most of us probably haven't paid much attention too. Thank you!
You did make one claim though that may not be totally accurate: "The Mt. Lebanon School District and its School Board do not like Pennsylvania Public Charter Schools."
Mrs. Posti has proclaimed her aversion to them on her blog. But apparently, if they can control it several are a bit more ameable to them.
One of the MTLSD Revenue Generating Committee Idea's of which Jan Klien, Tim Steinhauer and Mary Birks are part of is: "Create a magnet charter school for the arts"
This should be an interesting topic to watch play out. One thought not mentioned in your investigation. Does the school pay property taxes/rent to Baldwin for the use of the a building that sat vacant for years.
If so, then making available excess classroom capacity to a private charter school could be a revenue generator for the MTL district too.
Say you kept some of the current high school building's 545,000 sq. ft. and made it available to a charter school. Rather than down sizing it to 450,000 sq. ft. and carrying off the rest to a landfill. Thus offsetting some of the renovation expense.
Mr. Saunders: Your point is noted and I appreciate the feedback. When I wrote my article I was aware of the Revenue Generating Committee's (RGC) "Charter school" idea, but in light of E-mail exchanges between the board (via Mrs. Posti) and myself, in which I adduced Charter schools, I was amused that the RGC would suggest such a thing, given Mrs. Posti's negative opinion of Charter schools. And then, during the same meeting in which the RGC suggested that Mt. Lebanon develop its own Charter school, we have this: Just before the public comment period Mrs. Birks, in her PSBA/NSBA report, said, "And in the national news, NSBA expressed disappointment with the recent vote in the US House of Representatives to provide 300 million dollars in additional federal funds to support Charter schools. The House voted 365 to 54 in favor of HR 2218, the Empowering Parents through Quality Charter Schools Act, which expands the Federal program to provide State grants to Charter School start-ups. NSBA had urged members of Congress to reject this bill." It is my understanding that the MLSD supports the NSBA position.
At the very least the Board should clarify its position on Charter schools. As it stands there is a certain hypocrisy in the idea that if an entity outside of the Mt. Lebanon School District creates a Charter school, that is bad; but if the Board develops its own Charter school then that is good. Richard Gideon
Richard you and I are on the same page. Unfortunately, in all things school board one is not even sure what book you might be reading from. As you write... board position--charter schools are bad... unless of course its a school board run charter school and we can make money off it! Then we have-- a high school without a 3rd gym, tennis courts and rifle range is unacceptable... but board members won't commit to those elements before the project goes to bid again! We also have the comments on the first project design... this is absolutely the best project we can come up with! But oh yeah, there are 200 items we can live without! Things would be far simplier if we eliminated the 9 board members and used a Magic 8 Ball to run the district. Dick Saunders
Issue a Bond that squanders over $5,000,000 because it was issued too early and the Board says nothing.
Forgive an $8,000,000 fund raising effort form deceitful athletic supporters and the Board says nothing.
Overtax residents to build an $8,000,000 Capital Projects Fund and the Board says nothing.
Pass a teacher contract with a 4,4% salary increase in the last year along with 5% increases in health care and a 1.4% Act 1 Index followed by a 1.7% Act 1 Index limiting District millage increases and the Board says nothing.
Build a high school that is so expensive at $113,000,000 that a large percentage of the residents don’t support it and the Board says nothing.
Have five children go to a Charter school and Mrs. Posti starts a public meeting fight and blogs about the children and the families who made this choice because of the tuition and busing cost to the District of $64,000 to $80,000.
Well done. We must all stand behind school choice. There is nothing more important than protecting the rights of our children to get the best education possible. The only thing to guarantee continued improvement in our schools is the ability for families to choose. Thank you for writing on this topic. We must keep this issue in front of the public.
Competition is healthy. Did you all see the latest issue of InCommunity Magazine? I had to laugh. On page 12, under "The Mt. Lebanon School District," it is noted that, "In 2009 Mt. Lebanon school district was ranked second in Western Pa. by the Pittsburgh Business Times, based on the school's consistently impressive PSSA scores." Uh, it is 2011. We were ranked third in 2010 and third in 2011. It also says that "currently there are no registered sex offenders in Mt. Lebanon, making it safe for children." Sadly, that isn't true either. Elaine
Someone submitted an anonymous comment that was not factual. He or she said there were 2 sex offenders by McNeilly Park. There are 8 registered within 1 mile of McNeilly Park. Megan's Law McNeilly Park There are 2 within a half mile from McNeilly Park.
Getting back to YSWP, I hope that Dr. Allen reports her findings. It would be interesting to compare notes with Mr. Oz.
Remember the difficulty the Howe PTA had getting one registered sex offender to move away from Howe School? Now Howe will be the closest school to an athletic field near 8 registered sex offenders. What do Mary Birks and Dave Brumfield think about this?
Please sign your name, Folks. As far as Birks, she was offended by my "insensitive" joke since she is a child advocate. I guess I am not. Maybe you should email her and ask her yourself. If you don't get a response, email me privately and I will share the joke with you. I know she will respond to that one. Elaine
The District does not have an issue with parents who place their children into a religious, private, or special school – as long as the parents continue to pay school taxes – which, by the way, the law forces them to pay. However, if a child goes to a public Charter School, such as Young Scholars of Western Pennsylvania, and tax money follows the child, then the District has a huge issue! Of course, Mt. Lebanon would have the same problem if, for example, it was permissible for Mt. Lebanon parents to send their kids to Upper St. Clair schools, and have tax dollars diverted into the USC District.
Frankly, I completely understand the District's position; no entity – and particularly one that believes that they are doing the “greatest good for the greatest number” - works for its own destruction. But should it turn out that public Charter schools can provide quality education at a reduced cost I, for one, would be willing to sacrifice the District's interests for that of its students. Richard Gideon
Here's an interesting dichotomy. Mrs. Posti has Mrs. Birks comments available on her blog. According to her referenced studies: "While most Americans hold low opinions of the nation’s schools, they rate their public school teachers more highly now than they have in the past." So if the majority holds low opinions of the nation's schools... just whom are they holding accountable? Apparently not the teachers as the sentence assures us they rate teachers higher than ever! So who's left to be critical of? Who is most accountable for the operations and function of the nation's schools? So isn't the NSBA telling us round-about that the school boards and administrators are the problem! Probably explains the rising interest in charter schools too. You get the teachers, just not the ineffectual administrators and boards. Dick Saunders
I was under the impression that Mt. Lebanon did not have to bus children to other schools, ie. charter, parochial, etc., since they are a walking school district. But this sounds like, at least for charter schools, they do have that responsibility? Does anyone know the ruling on that? Why do we have to bus children to a charter school when we aren't a busing district? Teresa Simpson
Teresa, I didn't know the answers to your questions, so I asked a few people. I just heard back from Richard Gideon, author of this article. Here is his reply:
I found the following on the Education Law Center's web site, http://www.elc-pa.org/pubs/downloads/english/oth-transportation%20to%20and%20from%20school%209-08.pdf
WHEN MUST A SCHOOL DISTRICT PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION TO STUDENTS ENROLLED IN A PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOL? A school district must provide free transportation to students who live in the district and attend: • A charter school located within the district, or • A regional charter school, if the student’s district is one of the districts that approved the school’s charter; or • A charter school that is located within 10 miles of the district’s borders.
To follow-up on the issue of busing to a Pennsylvania Public Charter School, in the Education Law Center's document entitled "WHEN IS A STUDENT ENTITLED TO FREE TRANSPORTATION TO AND FROM SCHOOL?" it states the following: "This is true even if the district does not transport students attending other district schools. For example, a district has to transport a high school student attending a charter school within the district, even if the district does not transport students to its own high schools. A school district must also transport students to a charter school while the school is in session, whether or not its own schools are in session." If you'd like to read the entire document click HERE.
Now that just doesn't make sense. If the district doesn't provide regular transportation to its students why should it have to provide it to charter or private school students? Dick Saunders
I'm not a lawyer (nor have I played one on TV), but when it comes to the transportation issue there is a definite distinction between a private or religious school, and a public charter school. In the document I cited in two earlier posts the section covering transportation to private or religious schools has four criteria, ALL of which must be met (note the word AND at the end of each one); whilst transportation to the public charter school has three criteria, which affect the District if any ONE of them applies (note the word OR at the end of each one).
I think it stands repeating that Pennsylvania Public Charter Schools are, indeed, PUBLIC schools, not PRIVATE schools. Mt. Lebanon would apparently NOT have to supply transportation to a private school if the District does not transport its own students - which it doesn't; but they DO have to supply transportation to a PUBLIC charter school, if that school meets the criteria established by the Department of Education.
It's still nuts. Parents that send their kids to the MTLSD schools must find a way to get their kids to school whether by foot, car or bike. But charter school kids get taxpayer subsidized transportation that doesn't exist for the district kids... no way. I think I have to side with the district on this part of the equation. Nothing against charter schools, but if you live in MTL and want to send your kid to one that's your choice! It should also be your choice how they get there sane as it would be your responsibilty to get them to the district schools. Dick Saunders
Oh, it's “nuts” all right; but I'll see your mental pathology and raise you one – the myth that Mt. Lebanon is a “walking” community. We encountered this myth back in 1975, when we first moved here from New York. Living on Bower Hill Road's four-lane section, we were appalled at the number of parents who let their elementary school kids – especially first graders – walk unattended along this morning raceway, where the 35mph speed limit is apparently the entry speed into the pits. Since the distance from where we lived at the time to Hoover school was over 3/4 of a mile, and our kids had to cross Bower Hill to get to Hoover, my wife would walk them to the crosswalk, where a crossing guard was in attendance – sometimes.
I remember calling the District to ask why there was no busing, at least for elementary school kids. I was told, “This is a walking community.” I told the lady that every community is a walking community. She replied that most parents had no problem with it. In speaking with my new neighbors, especially natives, I discovered that it wasn't that they had “no problem” with it but rather they felt they couldn't do anything about it. Welcome to Mt. Lebanon.
I'd hate to see the school tax bill if they provided bus transportation for... what is the school district motto: "To Provide the Best Education Possible for Each and Every Student". Personally, I don't have a problem with being a walking district until a comparison is done of tax rates with neighboring districts that rank higher and DO provide bus transportation. Dick Saunders
A very interesting read, Mr. Gideon on a topic most of us probably haven't paid much attention too. Thank you!
ReplyDeleteYou did make one claim though that may not be totally accurate: "The Mt. Lebanon School District and its School Board do not like Pennsylvania Public Charter Schools."
Mrs. Posti has proclaimed her aversion to them on her blog. But apparently, if they can control it several are a bit more ameable to them.
One of the MTLSD Revenue Generating Committee Idea's of which Jan Klien, Tim Steinhauer and Mary Birks are part of is:
"Create a magnet charter school for the arts"
This should be an interesting topic to watch play out. One thought not mentioned in your investigation. Does the school pay property taxes/rent to Baldwin for the use of the a building that sat vacant for years.
If so, then making available excess classroom capacity to a private charter school could be a revenue generator for the MTL district too.
Say you kept some of the current high school building's 545,000 sq. ft. and made it available to a charter school. Rather than down sizing it to 450,000 sq. ft. and carrying off the rest to a landfill. Thus offsetting some of the renovation expense.
Dick Saunders
The busing costs will be made up by the reduction of $50,000 in the Capital Projects Fund expenses.
ReplyDeleteBill Hook
Mr. Saunders:
ReplyDeleteYour point is noted and I appreciate the feedback. When I wrote my article I was aware of the Revenue Generating Committee's (RGC) "Charter school" idea, but in light of E-mail exchanges between the board (via Mrs. Posti) and myself, in which I adduced Charter schools, I was amused that the RGC would suggest such a thing, given Mrs. Posti's negative opinion of Charter schools. And then, during the same meeting in which the RGC suggested that Mt. Lebanon develop its own Charter school, we have this: Just before the public comment period Mrs. Birks, in her PSBA/NSBA report, said, "And in the national news, NSBA expressed disappointment with the recent vote in the US House of Representatives to provide 300 million dollars in additional federal funds to support Charter schools. The House voted 365 to 54 in favor of HR 2218, the Empowering Parents through Quality Charter Schools Act, which expands the Federal program to provide State grants to Charter School start-ups. NSBA had urged members of Congress to reject this bill." It is my understanding that the MLSD supports the NSBA position.
At the very least the Board should clarify its position on Charter schools. As it stands there is a certain hypocrisy in the idea that if an entity outside of the Mt. Lebanon School District creates a Charter school, that is bad; but if the Board develops its own Charter school then that is good.
Richard Gideon
Richard you and I are on the same page. Unfortunately, in all things school board one is not even sure what book you might be reading from.
ReplyDeleteAs you write... board position--charter schools are bad... unless of course its a school board run charter school and we can make money off it!
Then we have-- a high school without a 3rd gym, tennis courts and rifle range is unacceptable... but board members won't commit to those elements before the project goes to bid again!
We also have the comments on the first project design... this is absolutely the best project we can come up with! But oh yeah, there are 200 items we can live without!
Things would be far simplier if we eliminated the 9 board members and used a Magic 8 Ball to run the district.
Dick Saunders
Josephine Posti "has proclaimed her aversion" to public charter schools here: Baldwin: Where your tax dollars are going
ReplyDeleteIssue a Bond that squanders over $5,000,000 because it was issued too early and the Board says nothing.
ReplyDeleteForgive an $8,000,000 fund raising effort form deceitful athletic supporters and the Board says nothing.
Overtax residents to build an $8,000,000 Capital Projects Fund and the Board says nothing.
Pass a teacher contract with a 4,4% salary increase in the last year along with 5% increases in health care and a 1.4% Act 1 Index followed by a 1.7% Act 1 Index limiting District millage increases and the Board says nothing.
Build a high school that is so expensive at $113,000,000 that a large percentage of the residents don’t support it and the Board says nothing.
Have five children go to a Charter school and Mrs. Posti starts a public meeting fight and blogs about the children and the families who made this choice because of the tuition and busing cost to the District of $64,000 to $80,000.
UGH! To your priorities, Josephine!
John Ewing
John, our $50,000 tax money going to a Charter school is being used for education for a change. How refreshing!!!! Bill Hook
ReplyDeleteWell done. We must all stand behind school choice. There is nothing more important than protecting the rights of our children to get the best education possible. The only thing to guarantee continued improvement in our schools is the ability for families to choose. Thank you for writing on this topic. We must keep this issue in front of the public.
ReplyDeleteCompetition is healthy. Did you all see the latest issue of InCommunity Magazine? I had to laugh. On page 12, under "The Mt. Lebanon School District," it is noted that, "In 2009 Mt. Lebanon school district was ranked second in Western Pa. by the Pittsburgh Business Times, based on the school's consistently impressive PSSA scores." Uh, it is 2011. We were ranked third in 2010 and third in 2011. It also says that "currently there are no registered sex offenders in Mt. Lebanon, making it safe for children." Sadly, that isn't true either.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Someone submitted an anonymous comment that was not factual. He or she said there were 2 sex offenders by McNeilly Park. There are 8 registered within 1 mile of McNeilly Park.
ReplyDeleteMegan's Law McNeilly Park There are 2 within a half mile from McNeilly Park.
Getting back to YSWP, I hope that Dr. Allen reports her findings. It would be interesting to compare notes with Mr. Oz.
Elaine
Remember the difficulty the Howe PTA had getting one registered sex offender to move away from Howe School? Now Howe will be the closest school to an athletic field near 8 registered sex offenders. What do Mary Birks and Dave Brumfield think about this?
ReplyDeletePlease sign your name, Folks.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Birks, she was offended by my "insensitive" joke since she is a child advocate. I guess I am not. Maybe you should email her and ask her yourself. If you don't get a response, email me privately and I will share the joke with you. I know she will respond to that one.
Elaine
The District does not have an issue with parents who place their children into a religious, private, or special school – as long as the parents continue to pay school taxes – which, by the way, the law forces them to pay. However, if a child goes to a public Charter School, such as Young Scholars of Western Pennsylvania, and tax money follows the child, then the District has a huge issue! Of course, Mt. Lebanon would have the same problem if, for example, it was permissible for Mt. Lebanon parents to send their kids to Upper St. Clair schools, and have tax dollars diverted into the USC District.
ReplyDeleteFrankly, I completely understand the District's position; no entity – and particularly one that believes that they are doing the “greatest good for the greatest number” - works for its own destruction. But should it turn out that public Charter schools can provide quality education at a reduced cost I, for one, would be willing to sacrifice the District's interests for that of its students.
Richard Gideon
Here's an interesting dichotomy. Mrs. Posti has Mrs. Birks comments available on her blog. According to her referenced studies: "While most Americans hold low opinions of the nation’s schools, they rate their public school teachers more highly now than they have in the past."
ReplyDeleteSo if the majority holds low opinions of the nation's schools... just whom are they holding accountable? Apparently not the teachers as the sentence assures us they rate teachers higher than ever!
So who's left to be critical of? Who is most accountable for the operations and function of the nation's schools?
So isn't the NSBA telling us round-about that the school boards and administrators are the problem! Probably explains the rising interest in charter schools too. You get the teachers, just not the ineffectual administrators and boards.
Dick Saunders
I was under the impression that Mt. Lebanon did not have to bus children to other schools, ie. charter, parochial, etc., since they are a walking school district. But this sounds like, at least for charter schools, they do have that responsibility? Does anyone know the ruling on that? Why do we have to bus children to a charter school when we aren't a busing district?
ReplyDeleteTeresa Simpson
Teresa,
ReplyDeleteI didn't know the answers to your questions, so I asked a few people. I just heard back from Richard Gideon, author of this article. Here is his reply:
I found the following on the Education Law Center's web site, http://www.elc-pa.org/pubs/downloads/english/oth-transportation%20to%20and%20from%20school%209-08.pdf
WHEN MUST A SCHOOL DISTRICT PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION
TO STUDENTS ENROLLED IN A PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOL?
A school district must provide free transportation to students who live in the district
and attend:
• A charter school located within the district, or
• A regional charter school, if the student’s district is one of the districts that approved
the school’s charter; or
• A charter school that is located within 10 miles of the district’s borders.
Thank you for looking into this, Richard.
Elaine
To follow-up on the issue of busing to a Pennsylvania Public Charter School, in the Education Law Center's document entitled "WHEN IS A STUDENT ENTITLED TO FREE TRANSPORTATION TO AND FROM SCHOOL?" it states the following: "This is true even if the district does not transport students attending other district schools. For example, a district has to transport a high school student attending a charter school within the district, even if the district does not transport students to its own high schools. A school district must also transport students to a charter school while the school is in session, whether or not its own schools are in session." If you'd like to read the entire document click HERE.
ReplyDeleteNow that just doesn't make sense. If the district doesn't provide regular transportation to its students why should it have to provide it to charter or private school students?
ReplyDeleteDick Saunders
I'm not a lawyer (nor have I played one on TV), but when it comes to the transportation issue there is a definite distinction between a private or religious school, and a public charter school. In the document I cited in two earlier posts the section covering transportation to private or religious schools has four criteria, ALL of which must be met (note the word AND at the end of each one); whilst transportation to the public charter school has three criteria, which affect the District if any ONE of them applies (note the word OR at the end of each one).
ReplyDeleteI think it stands repeating that Pennsylvania Public Charter Schools are, indeed, PUBLIC schools, not PRIVATE schools. Mt. Lebanon would apparently NOT have to supply transportation to a private school if the District does not transport its own students - which it doesn't; but they DO have to supply transportation to a PUBLIC charter school, if that school meets the criteria established by the Department of Education.
It's still nuts. Parents that send their kids to the MTLSD schools must find a way to get their kids to school whether by foot, car or bike.
ReplyDeleteBut charter school kids get taxpayer subsidized transportation that doesn't exist for the district kids... no way.
I think I have to side with the district on this part of the equation.
Nothing against charter schools, but if you live in MTL and want to send your kid to one that's your choice! It should also be your choice how they get there sane as it would be your responsibilty to get them to the district schools.
Dick Saunders
Oh, it's “nuts” all right; but I'll see your mental pathology and raise you one – the myth that Mt. Lebanon is a “walking” community. We encountered this myth back in 1975, when we first moved here from New York. Living on Bower Hill Road's four-lane section, we were appalled at the number of parents who let their elementary school kids – especially first graders – walk unattended along this morning raceway, where the 35mph speed limit is apparently the entry speed into the pits. Since the distance from where we lived at the time to Hoover school was over 3/4 of a mile, and our kids had to cross Bower Hill to get to Hoover, my wife would walk them to the crosswalk, where a crossing guard was in attendance – sometimes.
ReplyDeleteI remember calling the District to ask why there was no busing, at least for elementary school kids. I was told, “This is a walking community.” I told the lady that every community is a walking community. She replied that most parents had no problem with it. In speaking with my new neighbors, especially natives, I discovered that it wasn't that they had “no problem” with it but rather they felt they couldn't do anything about it. Welcome to Mt. Lebanon.
I'd hate to see the school tax bill if they provided bus transportation for... what is the school district motto: "To Provide the Best Education Possible for Each and Every Student".
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't have a problem with being a walking district until a comparison is done of tax rates with neighboring districts that rank higher and DO provide bus transportation.
Dick Saunders