It was crowded.
We need two turfed fields.
We need an indoor sports facility.
Someone GUARANTEED that the sports groups would raise money for the indoor facility and turf. (Ha!)
The same person admitted that USC is having trouble getting people to subscribe to their facility. But then said that we're smarter and can make it work.
Anyone else care to share some highlights of the meeting? I am afraid to ask.
Regarding that indoor athletic facility. Wasn't that the big selling point for the high school athletic complex.
ReplyDeleteWasn't it suppose to be the "center" of/for the community?
This asked for Rec Center tonight... Will that be the other center of the community?
I always thought it was physically impossible to have two centers for the same area.
Unless you happen to live in Leboland and it's parallel universes where the residents say they'll raise funds for everything. But those same people disappear when the check appears on thentable.
Dick Saunders
Funny too, that big protector of the environment Rob Papke is calling for another bond float to build a building and parking lot and possibly dig out real living oxygen producing plants and replace them with oil based plastics and rubber.
ReplyDeleteHow environmentally sound!
Dick Saunders
Maybe there are "No Idling" signs leftover.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Maybe there are "No Idling" signs leftover.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Someone emailed me this and wants to remain anonymous.
ReplyDeleteThis person attended the meeting last night and was appauled at the lack of residents who are for fiscal responsibility. She said that the youth sports were well represented and applauded evey time someone said something about fields. She said that I summed it up quite well when I said that there was going to be limited space and for representatives from the sports teams to be present, to give an opportunity for the older residents to address their needs in the allotted time and space.
I will be uploading the podcast later this morning to my website.
Elaine
It sounds like the Deadbeat Athletic Supporters are at it again - making promises they don't intend to keep and stealing taxes from their neighbors.
ReplyDeleteIf the Deadbeats are serious they should hire PK to do a feasibility study for their athletic fundraising agenda. I'll bet they won't even raise the $41,000 for the Study.
Can't you just see it now folks? The School District is trying to raise funds to keep our teachers and academic curriculum and the Deadbeat Athletic Supporters are undermining their efforts with a competing fund raising campaign!
See what happens when you elect a bunch of spoiled brats to a school board whose daddy gave his kid everything she ever wanted and the teachers' kids had parents who whined every time they wanted to pick the community's pocket for a new raise, or their own room for each teacher, or inflated staff on inflated healthcare benefits and pensions. They just don't know when to call it quits. Worse yet you have the same whiners gouging neighbors for taxpayer paid babysitting.
As for turfing two fields, the leading cause of seizures is head injuries and we had a rash of concussions before we planted the new turf at the high school according to emails obtained from the Athletic Director's office under the RTK law. Do parents really want their kids to have epilepsy because we built turfed fields?
John Ewing
The number of student athletic scholarships that *may* be awarded from building more fields and recreation facilities does not justify the enormous cost of these projects.
ReplyDeleteFace it, folks...you're going to have to pay for your kids' college educations just like other people.
It's also about time some residents lose the we-are-better-than-everybody-else attitude. We're not better---we're just poorer.
Maddie Miller
Just an aside to last night's meeting. A number of people who attended to offer their suggestions as to how the municipality should spend OUR money would not pay the $1-$2 to park legally in one of the municipal garages, and instead parked illegally in the church and library lot. Thanks for being so considerate!
ReplyDeleteJoe Wertheim
Once again, we have resorted to name calling and jumping to conclusions. Let's get back to rational discussions on this topic.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that there is no need to spend large chunks of tax dollars on new facilities. The current facilities will work nicely with a few tweaks and routine, sustained maintenance. As the fields are public assets, it is all of our best interests to keep them in good condition.
As you know, during negotiations, you always ask for the most self-serving objectives and work backwards to a mutual agreement. I see this situation in the same light.
Let's all be adults and find a common ground. Polarization only works in sunglasses.
One of the biggest problems I see in Mt. Lebanon is the fact that we spend tremendous amounts of money to build new but then the powers that be DO NOT MAINTAIN ANYTHING PROPERLY! Why, you ask? Well we are told there is no money to maintain because things have gone too far and the money is better spent on new. Can anyone say "vicious cycle"? Out with the old, in with the new....face it Elaine and pals....we are the old so they want us out. I can't wait till they are 50+ cause what goes around comes around! Mary Stanley
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteThat is a ridiculous statement. Shame on you.
Anyone who had something to offer about the state of our community's recreation facilities was invited to attend last night's meeting. No one hijacked anything. This was a meeting with the singular purpose of allowing resident feedback on a very specific topic. Of course, those folks who feel strongly about and utilize these facilities were going to show up and encourage their friends and neighbors to do the same. Personally, I fully expected to see and hear from some folks who would tell the Commission that these facilities are just fine. I also expected to hear people tell the Commission that we spend too much on recreation. Surprisingly, I didn't hear anyone say that. Instead, I heard the Commission President report that following a recent retreat they ALL concluded that these facilities are lagging and are in serious need of help. I also listened to residents from all different age groups explain how and why we should improve these facilities. It was not all about fields. A number of people whose children are grown and gone (or soon going) spoke and several seniors advocated for those rec improvements that are important to them. To my recollection, all speakers were met with applause, regardless of whether they wanted turf, a gardening plot at the golf course, improvements to the pool or the development of a different parcel of unimproved real estate. I didn't hear anyone suggest that improving or adding fields would increase their child's chances of an athletic scholarship, and frankly I agree, it won't. I don't believe that anyone is suggesting that there is any relationship between the two. Elaine, I thought it was interesting that you cited the 1997 USC study. As I'm sure you know, the end result of that process was the construction of the Boyce Mayview Rec Center that today includes a multipurpose indoor facility with basketball courts and a fitness center, an indoor pool and an outdoor water park, a best in class full size baseball field, a second baseball field and a great collection of multipurpose fields that are used by their football and soccer programs. It's truly an awesome facility and investment, according to their ad hoc rec committee, that was designed to seize upon "many positive, demonstrable social and economic advantages . . . [including]: maintaining and enhancing the competitive prestige of USC as a first tier community, maintaining and enhancing property values, maintaining and enhancing the competitive practicality of choosing and residing in USC, issuing continuation of the quality of life and community safety demanded by residents and expected by prospective residents, and significantly enhancing the sense of community that surveys continue to indicate is marginal." With perhaps the exception of the last goal (I happen to think our sense of community is fantastic), I think we share many of these same expectations and goals in asking to improve our recreational facilities - albeit on a much smaller scale. As was noted last night, we need to start treating these facilities as assets instead of liabilities. That helps everyone... Dave Franklin
ReplyDeleteDave,
ReplyDeleteThe last thing I remember reading about the USC Boyce Mayview rec center it is losing money and the number of memberships is nowhere close to projections.
Joe W
Dave, as you can see, I did not publish your entire comment. I don't feel that I should for the same reason I didn't back in the winter.
ReplyDeleteAs far as quoting USC's survey, I am well aware of the results of that survey. My family has joined the rec center. It was built to meet the needs of the community. I appreciated how they approached it.
Elaine
Dave,
ReplyDeleteThe USC is a community asset; the fields are not and neither will the HS be a community asset despite the "painting" of it as a community asset.
In addition ML doesn't take care of the fields we have - your past commentary is proof of that. The District lets the buildings rot while they put $ into a teachers contract they can't afford, a superintendent termination they can't afford, and a HS they can't pay without reducing programs and staff.
So tell me, Dave, why should we pay for new when we don't take care of what you have? The answer seems to lie with Conflicts of Interest the Youth Football Board has with their local government responsibilities.
John Ewing
What I find truly amazing is that no one discussed he kids. I keep hearing how there is a lack of field space, and how the fields are in such deplorable condition.
ReplyDeleteBut, take a look around, open your eyes. Without mommy and daddy and the promise of after game treats, do you see any of these wanna-be athletes actually playing baseball, basketball or soccer.
Watch the fields once school is out. They'll be vacant until mom and/or dad get home from work and round up the "team" for practice or a game.
When was the last tim anyone saw a group of these diehard athletes gather up a makeshift team and play ball. When was the last time you saw one eat, sleep and drink with his Rawlings mitt permanently by his side?
When was the last time you saw any of these kids march down to the field and scour the bases for sticks and stones so they wouldn't get bruised or cut trying to steal and extra base?
These sports parents are living in a dream world, a fantasy of their own making. Stopping organizing the kids "play activities" and you'll soon see how unimportant these fields really are.
Get out of their lives or better yet let them live. Let them learn how to organize their own team. Carve out their own special place, their home field if ou will.
Let them learn how to tell if they are winning or loosing, without mommy and daddy interfering. They'll be better citizens for it and they'll discover sooner for themselves what they need to practice to be first picked! They'll be better off for it.
Giffen Good
Question to all these wealthy, recreation loving, sports enthusiasts that are ready and willing with open checkbooks.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you build and operate your own indoor sports complex. There is a fine model of one just over the hill in Greentree. You want it, form a corporation and build it. See if they will come if you're so sure there's a demand for it. Hell, I might even suggest to the commissioners they offer you a modest tiff on the McNeilly property since Mt. Lebanon is so blighted.
See, we kill two birds with one stone. The municipality leases the to a private consortium that develops it for recreational use, thereby satisfying the limitation on use of the parcel and you jocks get your indoor facility!
Hey, Mr. Adams guaranteed the money was there- didn't he? You know capitalism is one of the things that makes America great. Got a great idea, invest in it. Let's see calculating 50 hand clapping athletic supporter in the town hall. If each bought a share at say $50,000, they have $2,500,000 for their indoor sports complex!
Godfrey Hardy
Giffen,
ReplyDeleteGreat point! There are many of the ball fields that are only used by the associations for organized play. Going a little deeper, you CAN see kids during the summer playing soccer, Frisbee, basketball, tennis and lacrosse without the aid of their parents.
In general, your point is valid, organized sports are dominant, but pick up games do exist.
In many cases, the facilities are used in many other ways than just playing games. Personally, I help coach a travel basketball team. At the end of each season, we conduct a family-style party where our team plays against family members.
For the part few years, there has been an elderly gentleman that comes to watch baseball and softball games during the summer. Through conversations with him, I discovered that his wife had passed away and there was no one else around to keep him company. He just came to the games for some human contact.
I also play basketball either on the park courts and in the school gyms. I am in the 50+ demographic, so my game is pathetic. I do enjoy seeing fellow community members and having a combination athletic/social interaction.
The are not compelling arguments in any sense, especially not strong reason to dump huge sums of cash into new facilities. However, these examples do have merit as community builders. It is mostly for the kids, but older folks also get a benefit.
Once again, I do not favor any new facilities. We have plenty of good facilities already. The real thrust should be to fix and maintain what we have and figure out the best way to utilize them. Turfed fields and the like do not demonstrate anything more than an ability to spend money.
Every time I post on this site, I try to downplay the Us v. Them mentality that is prevalent. We are all in this together, so we had best figure out how to get along so that we can sustain his community both socially, educationally and fiscally.
Another benefit to running a private sports complex. All these sports oriented, business manager moms will finally be able to manage and maintain a real business entity.
ReplyDeleteIt'll keep 'em off the streets and out of our hair. They'll be able to organize little games for the kiddies to their heart's content.
Godfrey Hardy
All these years, I never knew that USC has a swimming pool in the Montclair area. I heard that Deerfield Manor has another one, but I am not sure. I don't know what it is officially called - maybe an association? You have to live in the Montclair plan to buy into it. Maybe the sports groups can organize something like that, which goes along the lines that Godfrey suggested.
ReplyDeleteChuck, there is a basketball court in Rockwood Park which is rarely used. You should check it out.
Elaine
Elaine,
ReplyDeleteTry MTL Park, Lincoln, Jefferson & Hoover. There is usually activity there. Let's be clear, I never said everything was utilized to the fullest.
Chuck, We seem to have some common ground. I wasn't implying that the parks and fields don't get used. They do, but I don't think we've reached a crisis point as you agree, we don't have lines waiting all the time to get on a field.
ReplyDeleteI know the basketball court and the volleyball court by the rec center gets used pretty heavily, as does the park and pavillions.
Personally, I've spent hours waiting to get a tee time at South Park, but I wouldn't lobby the county to build another one - I'd join a club.
I agree some maintenance is called for, but they begs the question... why have things degraded to such a deplorable state.
Are our maintenance crews not doing the job.? Does the municipality chase after every whim and dream without setting aside enough in the budget for maintenance? Do we have more than we can afford?
The McNeilly property purchase is just one example. A wild rush to spend $1.5 million without any plan. Now we have proponents suggesting artificial turf on two fields AND an indoor facility.
We had tape on the windows of the high school for 10 years so the district could manage their budget and now people want to build more stuff.
Are they completely insane?
Giffen Good
Chuck, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. Just if you find that you cannot get an empty court, you should keep this one in mind. It is really nice.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Chuck,
ReplyDeleteNeither the District, nor the Municipality has properly maintained all their athletic facilities or fields for many years. There are many other priorities to be funded ahead of fields and keeping up with USC.
I hear too many complaints about the existing athletic fields to be supportive of new construction. When you get the District and the Municipality to maintain what they already have come back with another argument that doesn't say we don't have enough athletic facilities because we all want to use the fields at the same time.
In the meantime consider the first mention of a $100,000,000 HS was in December 2004 by Carol Waltom. In Janusry 2005 Hoffman called for Curriculum Specifications for the HS.
2004 was the first Contract extension.
2004 was the termination of Dr. Sable.
No matter what you build today in athletic facilities they will never be maintained properly with our District's cost structure. So if you want something better that the community will support start with proper maintenance on what you have and start a fund drive to finance it.
John Ewing
Elaine,
ReplyDeleteUnderstood.....thanks for the tip!
Marge Sable made it known that when she arrived here as superintendent she asked for the maintenance schedule for the district assets and she was shocked to be told there wasn't one. Nothing has a schedule to be maintained.
ReplyDeleteFreda Witness
Marge Sable made it known that when she arrived here as superintendent she asked for the maintenance schedule for the district assets and she was shocked to be told there wasn't one.
ReplyDeleteFreda Witness
I know someone who is a member at USC Boyce Mayview rec center and they pay $44.00 per month as a resident of USC. The seems low for what they offer.
ReplyDeleteSue Dixon
People might want to become familiar with the Delphi Technique when deciding to go to meetings, filling our survey, participating in strategic plans or any other communication with school districts, municipalities or legislators.
ReplyDeleteThe Delphi Technique — What Is It?
The Delphi Technique was originally conceived as a way to obtain the opinion of experts without necessarily bringing them together face to face. In recent times, however, it has taken on an all new meaning and purpose. In Educating for the New World Order by B. Eakman, the reader finds reference upon reference for the need to preserve the illusion that there is "…lay, or community, participation (in the decision-making process), while lay citizens were, in fact, being squeezed out." The Delphi Technique is the method being used to squeeze citizens out of the process, affecting a left-wing take over of the schools. Also Google the Delphi Technique for the many other ways it is used to control groups of people.
http://www.learn-usa
.com/transformation_process/acf001.htm
The school district staff is masterful at using the Delphi Techniques.
Freda Witness