McNeilly
| ||
Amount Borrowed
|
2004
|
2,000,000
|
53% of total issue
| ||
Paid 25,000 in principle before refunded
|
13,250
| |
2010A issue refunded
|
1,986,750
| |
19% of total issue
| ||
Have paid 15,000 in principal to date
|
2,850
| |
Total still outstanding
|
1,983,900
| |
Just putting it out there. Draw your own conclusions.
Update April 29, 2012 6:06 PM Soccer support for McNeilly Park
DCNR Grant Application
National Park Service Grant Application
So 8 years in and we still owe all the money.
ReplyDeleteNice.
This is why people rightfully have figured out that wrapping bonds is stupid. Yet, municipal finance managers and bond sellers like to issue them because it makes it easier to budget.
I'd rather save the money and figure out the budget.
Albert Brenneman
Add to this bit of financial flummery the fact that the McNeilly property was obtained under the most restrictive terms. As it was explained to me, the property cannot be sold unless the Municipality obtains another property, similar in size.
ReplyDeleteDon't know what the 53% refers to as the purchase price actually paid to the Rooney family was $1,832,000 plus there were closing costs, bond issuance costs, etc. in addition. All bond financed. The PA DCNR grant application for the purchase of McNeilly property included and represented that the Soccer Foundation had committed $125,000 towards the land purchase. The Muni apparently never called for the $125,000. The DCNR grant for $200,000 was issued with the unknown/undiscovered/unrevealed federal *fishook*, and we spent it, hook, line & sinker. Interesting isn't it...sorta makes you wanna cry !
ReplyDeleteSeveral years later, when the Muni included the Development of McNeilly into 2 soccer fields, 1 regulation baseball field, stadium seating, concession stand & lighted parking lot in their Capital Improvement Plan (CIP), the Soccer Foundations' $125,000 appeared once again as a funding component for development. That was repeated again the following year.
Both bond issues, because of so minimal principal reductions, were obviously "wrapped", which only adds insult to injury for this boondoggle. Have your info source tell you, and us, what the cumulative interest cost on this $2 million bond issue has been to date. The correct answer will add measurably to intestinal discomfort.
I truly wonder if this community will ever learn anything from this unfortunate history, or any history. I can't wait for one of the readers to complain about my recounting our sorid history because it will undoubtedly be a guilty party or one who prefers back, smoke filled rooms and secret dealings commenting anonymously. They hate people keeping tabs and records and exposing foul play.
Bill Lewis
Bill, I just added the documentation as an update to this post. The $125,000 from the Soccer Association, the DCNR grant application, and the National Park Service grant application. I didn't add the letters of support from all the sports groups because i still need to white out their contact information. I love the second page of the pdf from the Soccer Association. I think they use a template when asking for fields. It is almost word for word what Mr. Franklin is saying about Mellon.
ReplyDeleteElaine
I have the deeds to the property, if there is any interest in seeing them.
ReplyDeleteThese documents, in addition to the Master Design Team meeting minutes that I put up previously, lead some people to believe that the sports groups don't come through with their promises. Not me. Just sayin'.
Elaine
Careless, interest-only borrowing like this has to be laid at the feet of the Municipal Finance Manager and Janney Montgomery Scott's willingness to suggest unsuitable financing plans for weak minded Commissioners who don't want to raise millage instead of using their Credit Card [bonds] responsibly.
ReplyDeleteEither Janney Montgomery Scott has to be fired or the Municipal Finance Manager needs to be retired. A monkey in a trunk wouldn't need a Ouija Board to give us better advice than this!
John Ewing
Seems to me that the commissioners need to get their finances in order before they decide to bail out the school district. How are they paying for turfing Mellon Field again? I forget.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Citizens of Gotham
ReplyDeleteAlready your interest expense for the McNeilly Fields project approaches $400,000. Thwack!
Had these funds been put aside for a legitimate project you could be well on your way to Turf. Pow!
At this rate you will be spending more than three million dollars and still have nothing to show for it. Bonk!
Do not delay - call Commissioner Gordon, or better yet Fraasch.
Batman
"Batman" Not sure of your comment. Are you being negative or positive about Commissioner Fraasch?
ReplyDeleteElaine
E
ReplyDeleteCommissioner Fraasch is doing her best to keep your citizens from another Bap! or a Clunk!
There are other responsible Commissioners - but I like what I see with Fraasch. If Robin ever needs a break, I will be calling Kelly.
Batman
I think it's important to note again that ALL commissioners need called or emailed, not just the ones that agree.
ReplyDeleteRemember in this world, we give graduation speeches about how we should surround ourselves with and only listen to those that agree with us. This way we never hear dissent, negativity, or new ideas.
Reach out and touch a commissioner you DON'T know and tell them they are nuts- in a nice way!
Albert Brenneman
Albert, couldn't agree more.
ReplyDeleteA neighbor saw Commissioner Fraasch last week at Uptown. It appeared a group of people were ganging up on her about this sports thing. My neighbor said the whole coffee house could hear the craziness. One person considered going in to help Commissioner Fraasch, but Kelly didn't seem disturbed by the yelling even though the rest of the room was. My neighbor said she looked relatively calm, sitting in her seat, while everyone at the table was upset and yelling at her.
What a good impression from the sports people. Let's yell at a Commissioner and see if we can upset her. Really mature. I wasn't going to say anything online, but the more I think about it the more disturbed I feel about it and bullies should be exposed.
Let’s contact each of our Commissioners/School Directors and discuss the problems and discuss solutions in a civil manner, please. No one needs to yell or get emotional about this. We are talking fields after all. Nothing is life or death regarding this topic.
Ken Ward
The same tactics employed by the BOSN, VOICE of Mt. Lebanon people on the high school. Look back at tapes of the meetings. The slurs hurled at Mark Hart, Dan Remely, Alan Silhol.
ReplyDeleteReview the letters published in The Almanac and elsewhere calling for James Fraasch's resignation, when he tried to alert the community to the financial situation we are now in.
Look at the "what the Kluck" demonstration against a group that was attempting to have a conversation on local issues.
The protest wasn't designed to join the dialogue as they had associates in the town hall that could ask any question they wanted. The intent was to shout over people they disagreed with.
What I find curious.is that one of the loudest shouters, commissioner Linfante, has nothing to say publically on the turf issues here.
Matt, Kelly, Dave have all made some comments. Where are our other two representatives? Do they have nothing constructive to offer?
Dick Saunders
Ken, I had not heard that, but I did hear about the coffee commissioner Fraasch hosted where a man was yelling at her about fields during his appointment with her. The whole coffee shop was mortified.
ReplyDeleteElaine
So that no one misses it, commission president Brumfield left a response about turf conditions in the post, Working Together 101.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Mr. Ward and Elaine;
ReplyDeleteThis is my second draft of this email, my first was a bit angry. The meeting at the cofee shop with Kelly and sports boosters was called by Kelly and I was also present. There were absolutely no issues with the meeting. No one yelled at or intimidated Kelly. She was thanked numerous times for listening and it was discussed that they would all meet again. The only time voices were raised were actually when people referenced some of the slander and misinformation that has been floating around. And none of that was directed at Kelly. I realize you are just reporting what someone told you but the fact is it these foolish rumors that make it harder for us to work together. Please before you print these things please confirm that they actually happened. I'm sure Kelly would be happy to discuss the meeting with you.
Dave Brumfield
Dave B., an eyewitness reported that Dave Franklin was seen yelling at Kelly at Orbis Coffee on March 18. This person is a credible source. I have no reason to doubt this person. I can't respond to what Ken said, but if voices were raised during your meeting with her, I have been doing my best to document what has been "floating around." Would you care to comment on those documents?
ReplyDeleteThis is why I have reached out to the sports groups, so that their efforts could be documented. To date, I have gotten zero responses.
Elaine
Mr. Brumfield:
ReplyDeleteDid you and Mr. Franklin attend the same study group in law school or is this just a basic course of study for the legal profession?
On Doublespeak:
"The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies."
George Orwell
You claim, Mr. Brumfield: "No one yelled at or intimidated Kelly. Yet exactly one sentence later you write: "The only time voices were raised...."
CUT OUT THE DOUBLESPEAK BULLSHIT, DAVE!
In case you're wondering - I am yelling. I'm sick of the subterfuge, Franklin claims turf is cheaper, then when pressed admits there are no numbers as yet on turfing Mellon. That no one knows! Then I read here on Elaine's blog that my estimates are wrong. That you or Franklin know turf is the more cost effective solution.
When does the bullshit stop, Commissioner?
You write you first draft here was too angry, well I'm here to tell you, I'm thinking this one may not be angry enough considering your past contributions here.
Dick Saunders
It is amazing how a commission's dynamics change with a new president in office. Dan Miller asked for a staff report for McNeilly and the Swimming Pool. Now, we have a president who has produced no documentation for a school district field improvement. Where is the comprehensive study of the issues pertaining to improving a school district field? I still have the staff report on Lebo Citizens for McNeilly and the Swimming Pool. instead, all I hear is how volunteers have spent money out of their pockets, associations have spent money on fields, and yet, no one has responded to my/our attempt to collect that data. Now, it has come down to coffee shop meetings? Let us (and your staff) gather the facts so that the rest of the commission can make some sound decisions for our community.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Another thing, the Gateway comprehensive review that is also on Lebo Citizens only covers municipal fields, as it should. Ther is nothing in that review for Mellon! Dave B., please try to be a little less biased when it comes to fields. Use your head and not your heart.
ReplyDeleteElaine
I made an error, which I'm not afraid to admit too.
ReplyDeleteIn my 1:51 pm comment I attributed the Orwell quote to the subject of Doublespeak. It is from his novel 1984 and the subject is the similar subject but it is inregards to Doublethink.
His comments on Doublespeak are from his essay "Politics and the English Langauge",
He writes on doublespeak:
"In our time, political speech and writing are largely the defence of the indefensible… Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness… the great enemy of clear language is insincerity."
So once again comrade Blumfield writes: "No one yelled at or intimidated Kelly. Yet exactly one sentence later he wrote: "The only time voices were raised...."
A perfect example of sheer cloudy vagueness to which Orwell refers.
Dick Saunders
Could Dave Brumfield tell the truth if he had a speech writer and a teleprompter? Bill Hook
ReplyDeleteA passionate discussion occurred last week and one that could have been interrupted in the coffeehouse as a heated debate.
ReplyDeleteDave Brumfield and those in attendance were talking with me about their opinions regarding turfing fields. Yes, voices were raised, but none of the commentary was personal. As Commissioner, sometimes community members are going to be passionate about an issue. It’s my job to listen and not get flustered. It’s my job to seek different views from mine and see if we can find common ground. So I just listen, ask questions when I need more information and either feel more confident about my opinion or I tweak my opinion a little.
I have pretty thick skin, I want to hear various opinions (especially those that are different from mine) and the Commission is dealing with a very heated debate about our Recreation needs. I don’t believe that anyone’s intention at the table was to bother the patrons at either coffeehouse or cause concern.
You have ALL been duped. All of of you.
ReplyDeleteWhy is there even a discussion on turfing fields?? This is a classic rhetorical strategy employed by those who are in favor of yet another nonsensical project. They start with the premise that we are all in agreement the fields need turf, then redirect the conversation as to how to come to an agreement to do it. But they've skipped the critical step of actually discussing the merits of artificial surfaces. The BS stops here and now.
The fields don't need turf, the fields don't need lights. Franklin and Brumfield seem to take the stance that since government isn't designed to let them achieve their agendas, well hell, we should just change it! Got news for you, Commissioner--your job as an elected representative of one taxing body is not to pick up the slack for the other taxing body. Do your job. Worry about the streets in need of repair; worry about the dilapidated curbs; worry about the anemic business district on Washington Road; worry about a municipal manager who is borderline incompetent; worry about your flagship community magazine that derives its ad revenue from other communities and worry about paying the township bills. If the school district wants to continue down their path or reckless spending and pure folly, that's their problem, not yours. And if you don't like the way local government operates, go do something else with your time.
Look at it this way--if you want to blur the lines of government, then the school board willbe repsonsible for putting up stop signs and the commission should have a vote on how to spend money within the school district. Maybe all of you should take a class on civics.
Or could all this just be yet another example of Lebo trying to keep up with their neighbors?
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-south/peters-oks-turf-expense-631054/
From what I'm reading above and hearing from a coffee shop witness, it seems like a group..4 or 5...of adult, athletic "boys" sort of ganged up on Kelly; and, in voice tones and at decibel levels reserved only for locker rooms and playing fields, harangued their views on athletic fields. Behavior altogether both unsuitable and unacceptable per-se, be it in a public coffee shop or otherwise, and totally disrespectful treatment of a lady as well as a Commissioner.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder people are referring to that group as the "bully boys" !
Veblen Good
Kelly, your comments are appreciated, you make a good case when you describe your meeting as "passionate." Fair enough.
ReplyDeleteThere seems to be though a double standard in play here. Those that blog against the turfing or the high school when they write passionate comments are maligned as spewing slander and misinformation. Axxused of not being good neighbors, not loving the community, not wanting a good education for our kids. They're called cheapskates and so on and so forth.
Yes, there maybe a few that fill those labels as there are those on the otherside that think there are no limits on spending.
Elaine and few others here have tried to tone down the rhetoric, the passion and look at the issues objectively.
You initiate a plam to analyse our needs and come up with a compromise we can all afford and live with.
I have heard under various headings here and at the commissioners town hall... we need one turfed field, two turfed fields, an indoor athletic facility, a completely new McNeily Field, better maintenance on all fields, minimal maintenance on some fields, a new pool, no pool just locker rooms... it goes on and on an round and round.
We have no idea of what we spend on facilities and fields now, no idea of what we should spend nor any idea of what turfed fields would cost. Then I'm told my estimates of trufing are too high.
It's no wonder passions are flairing.
DIck Saunders
Commissioners:
ReplyDeleteTalk about passion, were this discussion occurring 200 hundred years earlier several of our tax happy officials would sudeenly find themselves wearing tar and feather outfits.
Considering Lebo residents propensity for drink I guess that would still fall under the heading of a Whiskey Rebellion.
So far things haven't yet gone so passionately out of control that Washington has had to call in the troops!
Giffen Good
As a reminder, the data that we are collecting is
ReplyDeletehere. I will be redoing the spreadsheet in a more logical format if/when the information starts to come in. In fact, I asked for help over the number of fields and there was silence. I don't know how many groups use our facilities. I would like to have this available in time for the May 14 school board meeting. This is in case the pro Mellon turf people can present it to the school board, instead of the commission. I never got any feedback about presenting it to the school board, but I am optimistic. It is perfect timing.
I am still waiting for comments from Commissioners Linfante and Bendel. Perhaps Commissioner Bendel is shy about writing to blogs. We definitely know that Commissioner Linfante is a pro at it. I know you were willing to write to the blog when you came to my door asking for your vote, Kristen. Now is your chance.
Elaine
Oh no Elaine, Commissioner Linfante would never disagree while being disagreeable. LOL
ReplyDeleteGiffen Good
All these iPhones and mobile devices and NO ONE has the sense to take a video of what was going on at the coffee?
ReplyDeleteYOU have the responsiblity to record a wrong if you see it. Someone else isn't going to do it for you. YouTube is free.
There is nothing more damning to people's causes than their own words. It's hard to deny that you were "raising your voice" - appropriately or inappropriately - when it's caught for posterity on the internet.
" . . . when you are out of money you are dead."
ReplyDeleteGuy Kawasaki
Alright, one more comment on this string...
ReplyDeleteSo you have a turf life of 8-12 years.
So you have a bond life of 20-25 years.
Every 8-10 years you are going to issue another bond for turf.
This layering effect will have a significantly negative impact on the budget over time.
Raise the money yourself or maintain what we have. But for goodness sake don't put us more in debt for such a marginal improvement to the everyday lives of most of us.
Albert Brenneman
Albert, there is no sense to any of this. The sports people urged us to buy McNeilly and as you pointed out in the first comment, we still owe all the money. Two commissioners are pushing to turf a municipal field. No studies have been done. Bullying tactics are being used on a commissioner. When asked to support statements as far as out of pocket expenses or details on facility use, there is none. We had a joint discussion session with the two commissioners who are supporting turfing Mellon field. The SB president started off the meeting by saying that they will not have any capital improvements due to the high school renovation. In that staged meeting, Brumfield brought up turfing Mellon or Jefferson fields. My guess is that once one gets turfed, then the other one will be next. As Albert pointed out, the layering effect is detrimental to our municipal budget for something that is a marginal improvement to the everyday lives of most of us.
ReplyDeleteJack, you raise an excellent point. Just take the footage. I will see to it that it gets posted. But others have to step forward besides David Huston and me to capture this for the community.
Elaine
Mr. Good,
ReplyDeleteJust to be clear,
Brian Walters has now replaced Mr. Brumfield as the Field Director for the YFA. However Mr Franklin is still the Director of Funding.
From the YFA website:
Brian Walters
Director of Fields
Dave Franklin
Director of Funding
John Ewing