I have always paid my taxes the second they would arrive in my mailbox. Last year, I waited to pay my school district taxes until the end of July. I know it didn't make much of a difference to the school district, but I felt better. This year, I think I am going to take advantage of the school district real estate tax installment option. Here is the installment option as written at the bottom of my school district tax bill:
Mt. Lebanon School District Real Estate Tax may be paid in the following installments:
1/2 of the face tax due by: 9/30/12
1/4 of the face tax due by: 13/31/12 (whenever that is)If more people take this route, perhaps that would get our local government officials' attention.
1/4 of the face tax due by: 2/28/13
Whatever floats your boat! I don't think that the municipality will take note of your "protest" !
ReplyDeleteYou can call it a protest; I call it trying to make ends meet.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Not what you alleged on your original post "If more people take this route, perhaps that would get our local government officials' attention."
ReplyDeletePaying in installments is a good option when doing a budget.
Fine, if you want to call it a protest, I cannot stop you. We have options. I will feel better, so it is worth it to me. Pay in full if you can, buddy.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Anon 12:29 - if people are content, than there is no issue. If they aren't than they can vote with their wallets.
ReplyDeleteThat's fine 12:29, but it's hardly a vote if no one notices it.
ReplyDeleteHey 12:29 rather than pick on Elaine who does pay what she suppose too, why don't you go after the YSA that doesn't or the people that didn't pay $800,000 in parking fines.
ReplyDeleteElaine's small picking, what less than $7 or 8 thousand. There's almost $1,000,000 available that would almost pay for your artificial turf.
Trouble is you'd probably be hittin' up a lot of your pals getting it!
1:20 PM, did you really mean 12:29 PM? And will someone explain which month is the thirteenth month?
ReplyDeleteElaine
1:33 PM, I tried to expose those scofflaws, but the Municipality wouldn't go for it. Haven't heard anything else about that, have you?
ReplyDeleteMy plan affects no one in the scheme of things, but it does benefit me.
Elaine
1:33 I wasn't picking on Elaine, just noting that paying in installments is not going to be noted as a protest or "voting with your wallet".
ReplyDeleteBtw- I am not "gong after" anyone. I am not in favor of AstroTurf fields either.
The thirteenth month is the one in which the YSA made several of their Joint Maintenance Agrement payments. Therefore explaining why no one can seem to find them.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it awfully funny that several people will expend countless hours of energy calling you and your fellow bloggers whackos and debating how you pay your tax while at the same time ignoring the fact that the money they seek for their turf plan is right in front of them.
Get the YSA to pay up on their obligation to the JMA... what are we at in the delinquent column... $120,000. Go after the scofflaws that won't pay parking fines... $800,000. They'd have more than enough to pay for their plastic grass.
I might even beg the commissioners to pop for the lights just to shut some of these fools up. If they'll promise to take their lawn chairs down to the turfed field on a day like today and sit there for an hour!
Elaine, make sure the tax office stamps your receipts with the correct calendar date.
ReplyDeleteEven though Mr. Ferguson was present and knew my receipt was stamped with the wrong date, he did nothing about it. Now he expects me to deal directly with him. Read his response to my complaint:
"I regret that you were aggrieved by the multiple dates on your receipt. I was present when you were here and no argument ensued.
I suggest that whenever you wish to deal directly with this office that you deal with me."
David Huston
I would not be so quick to dismiss Ms. Gillen's payment ideas out of hand. She is not suggesting a tax revolt - she even said so - but the more intriguing question is, "Would the taxing bodies 'feel' it?" I maintain they would (especially the school district) - IF enough people were to take the installment option.
ReplyDeleteIn business school they teach you that the ideal cash flow situation is "income at the front end and expenses at the rear end," or to put it in more layman-like language, you collect as soon as possible, and hold off paying your bills until the last minute. This shows a larger bottom line and frees up capital that you can put back into the business. By paying bills at the last minute I'm not implying "late payments." That is why "billing dates" were invented. Even taxing bodies from the IRS down to the Mt. Lebanon Municipality consider taxes payed as being "on time" if they are mailed and Postmarked on the day due.
Property taxes represent a "reverse investment," where YOU PAY a third party, in this case the ML Municipality or District, interest (taxes) on YOUR investment (property) at rates established by the receiver. Let's forget the Municipality for a moment and concentrate on the Distract because, "That's were the money is!" This tax season you are paying them 2.713% interest (27.13 mils) on your investment (the assessed value of your home) - which doesn't even come from productive property, but from your income!. If you pay that interest "early" they will forgive you 2% of 2.713%! That is equivalent to an rebated interest rate of .0543% (or .000543). For the District the situation is the other way around. The sooner the money comes in, the sooner to can be used, or invested, by the District. The District wants that money as soon as possible, otherwise they would not dangle a miniscule financial carrot in front of the taxpayer. Again, back to my business model, there's a huge difference between sales and collections - can I get an "amen" from you sales people out there? - and there is an equivalent undesirable gap between the time the bills go out and the money comes in.
Of course, everyone reading this must make a personal decision for himself or herself as to whether to pay the "discounted" amount. In my own case I can put the staggared payment money I would otherwise have paid the District up front into my Thrivent account, which I have had since shortly after fire was invented, and is currently paying me 3.5%, and be better off for it - but that works for me.
Bottom line: make your decision based on what is in YOUR best interest, not the Municipality’s or the District's. Remember, the more money you keep, the more you have to invest in your retirement (you'll need it!), or help your children buy that first house, or give to your favorite charity (mine is Light of Life Rescue Mission and my wife's is St. Jude's Children's Hospital), or rescue a dog or cat, or give to your favorite Foundation - you get the idea. And for those of you whose favorite cause is the $113,300,000.00 high school - pay your taxes early and skip the 2% discount.
1:55 you're right it won't be seen as a protest, but it will be a cold hard slap to the face, rousing them from their self- induced stupor.
ReplyDeleteThe school district whether they admit it or not is like a business. And all busineses pretty much run on cash flow. Interrupt the usual and expected revenue stream and watch the paperpushers panick. The is exactlythe reason for the hasty contract with PK to find sugar daddies. Obama and Corbett thru them into a tizzy with their budget cuts as opposed to ever increasing supplements. The well while it has gone dry isn't refilling as fast as it once did.
Slow done the money flow (not reduce it mind you) and I'm betting you'll see a panic handsome real austerity measures. The first will veto revoke the payment plan!
While we may be great minds, Richard, we do understand cash flow.
ReplyDeleteIf you can manage to work though my auto-spell corrected comment I think we're on the same track.
If we really want to see the district change their habits... hit 'em legally in the pocketbook. If they attempt to repeal the payment plan they'll be exposing just how precarious their financial position is for all to see.
If the School District considers $1700 eliminated by not purchasing yearbooks for central admin as a cost reduction, my guess is a couple of us using the payment plan just might have an effect on the District.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Don't forget that $900,000 grievance that could be hitting in the fall.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Thanks to the last two posters for some very revealing information.
ReplyDeleteMr. Gideon's comments explain the economics of taxation very well. The next poster points out correctly that the school district is a business.
That's true, too, but---unfortunately for all of us---it's not always run like a business. And when you mix in politics, friendships, personal agendas and special interest groups, things get kind of messy.
Sadly and shamefully, that's where we are now.
I didn't mean to send that Richard and I are great minds, I know I'm not one since I can't figure out how to get auto- check to quite editing my comments.
ReplyDelete3:26 thanks, sometimes it appears our only option is to rattle the cage sometimes, me thinks.
We're going to hold on to our money as long as we can. We're in, Elaine !
ReplyDeleteMine of 2:42pm -
ReplyDeleteLet's forget the Municipality for a moment and concentrate on the Distract...
HA! I guess I was Distract(ed) when I was trying to type "District"! Damn old age!
I wonder if making payments would force them to limit the numbers of appeals they could pay Gambino to sit in on?
ReplyDeleteJust a thought.
There is a reason why they want it in payments of 50%, 25% & 25%.
ReplyDeleteThey could've set it at 4 equal quarterly payments.
ML School District sets the budget in May as opposed to other districts that set their budget in June. The District does this because many folks send a check for taxes as soon as they get the tax bill that is sent in very early June, The District gets an extra one month interest from all the folks who pay taxes early. Other districts have not caught onto this idea yet and miss one months interest because their tax bills are sent a month later than ours.
ReplyDeleteWith short term interest rates being held artificially low by the Federal Reserve the interest is nowhere near what it used to be on a yearly basis, so withholding dollars on an installment basis would force the interest received even lower because the District would not have the money to invest as early as it once did.
Last year the District was offered a zero interest account by Mellon Bank who has been our depository for funds for as long as I can remember. The Board did not like the zero interest rate the District was offered even though Mellon has the strongest balance sheet in banking according to a credible bank analyst. The Board's response was to put the money into the Pennsylvania Liquid Asset Fund - a money market fund - to get a positive return.
What was not being published at the time was the Chairwoman of the Securities and Exchange Commission was proposing a variable redemption on money market funds to avoid a panic like we had during the financial downturn. This if passed, would mean money market funds may not pay back the same dollar amount you put in but a Mellon deposit would pay back the same dollar you put in.
The proposal has been discussed with several very large and prominent money market managers who prefer not to "break the buck" on a redemption. An alternate proposal is being discussed to not pay back the full amount invested in case of a redemption. I cannot tell you this will or won't affect our money market fund but if it does Elaine's idea of withholding money may draw a great deal of attention from a Board who may not have known about the Securities and Exchange Commission discussion to "break the buck" on redemptions before they voted to change depositories.
So my idea could make an impact, John?
ReplyDeleteElaine
Thats what he is saying.
ReplyDeleteI'm betting within the next five days Posti, the PR pro, tries to spin this as hurting the children. Those poor downtrodden little victims of circumstance who battle through their hardscrabble existence everyday just to survive. Along comes Elaine, the woman with hate in her heart, and she wants to kick the kids when they're down. Isn't it enough that they won't get their million dollar glass tunnel to protect them from the elements? Don't you feel their pain for having been deprived of artificial turf in 3rd grade? You don't have hate in your heart, Elaine because you have no heart.how dare you deprive the school board of your money.
ReplyDeleteYes, that is me. Heartless, gutless, hate kids, against sports especially those skateboarders, guilty of hypocrisy and pettiness, let's see, what else have I been called? Oh yeah, insensitive, no compassion, dishonest, not transparent, fear monger, disingenuous, negative, against education, a liar, not willing to allow comments that I disagree with, and anti gardens. if I have left anything out, I am sure I will be told here.
ReplyDeleteI now have a different perspective about my taxes. Up until recently, I wasn't going to give one more cent in taxes for the same reason I never carry a balance on my credit cards. But now, I think I can get more bang for my buck by stretching out my payments. I think I am going to do the same thing with my stormwater fee next year.
Elaine
I forgot about being mean.
ReplyDeleteI have been at this for 2.5 years. It is a struggle to be positive in this town. Something has to give so that the people are represented fairly. I am tired of being controlled by bullies.
Elaine
As an addendum to my post of 2:42PM on 6 July - I should point out that the decision to pay your property taxes early or pay in installments is an option that only works for people who have paid-off their mortgages and own their homes outright. If one still has a mortgage then it is likely you have no choice in the matter; the mortgage company is going to take advantage of the discount because they are paying your taxes (and likely your insurance) for you out of your escrow account. Whether the mortgage holder will agree to the staggered payment option is something you would have to find out for yourselves; my suspicion is they won't. I also suspect that the majority of homes in Mt. Lebanon are not owned outright. Still, given the population makeup of our "six square miles," I would hasten to say that a respectable number of homes are indeed "free and clear." It is these homeowners who would have the greatest impact on the District or Municipality should they decide to opt for staggered payments.
ReplyDeleteRe: Richard's comment - there are also a number of people like myself who chose to pay taxes ourselves instead of having taxes paid with mortgage. We specifically chose this method so that we control when the taxing bodies get our payments. I'm hanging on to my money as long as possible ;-)
ReplyDeletePeople, get hold of reality !
ReplyDeleteDon't you people actually realize that the school district issues tax invoices in advance of the school year, that they collect something like 90% of the largest component of their annual revenue - real estate taxes - before the school year begins (by contrast the municipal taxes are due & paid mid-year). Aside from net bond proceeds remaining, the district will likely have over $40 million sitting in the bank by even Dec. 31, 2012 !
If all of you used the available 4-payments plan, and if that somehow actually created a cash flow problem for the district, the district can arrange for what are known as "TAN's", tax anticipation notes, which are short term loans from a local bank to see them through. The interest cost would be inconsequential and we would end up paying for it in the end.
Why don't all of you with so much to say get a grip on facts about what you're dealing with before you spout off and appear stupid, or at a minimum totally ignorant !
Sometimes you must swallow a bitter pill or take a painful shot in the a** to fix what ails you.
ReplyDeleteYes, the district will get their TAN and in the short term we might pay a slight penalty in interest for those TAN's.
But the message and the lesson hopefully will not be lost on the administration.
The obvious next step will be to eliminate as many as possible of the spend happy board members as their seats come up in the future elections.
A lesson must be taught, in a recession it's not wise to hand out more vacation time, above average raises and overspend on taj mahals.
If you have a better Idea as how we teach that lesson I'd love to hear it. For once why don't you become part of the solution instead of perpetuating the problem. Say like, how do we get the YSA to pay up their delinquent $120,000 share of the Joint Maintenance Agreement.
If the YSA had lived up to the agreement they signed, at a minimum 250 high school students wouldn't have to pay $50/year ($10,000 expected total income to the district) for parking.
ReplyDeleteJust a small example of the dramtic affect The actions or better description, lack of responsibilty by a small group of people can have on the school district budget.
Parking should be $10 per day for students and teachers. That's $50 per week and it should include administrators.
ReplyDeleteElaine,
ReplyDeleteA presentation to the Federal Reserve Board conference in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, in August 2010, concluded fiscal authorities could see lower prospects for revenues and higher pressures on outlays for a decade after the 2007 housing/banking/debt crisis.
This suggests no new debt should be issued until unemployment and the banking/housing/debt crisis is resolved.
The recent publicity of a $9,000,000,000 loss by JPMorgan, the fixing of the LIBOR interest rate by Barclay's Bank in England, along with the debt and low-growth problems in the Euro-Zone confirm the crisis is not yet passed.
The suggestion of issuing debt for any reason is fiscally unworkable until the problems are resolved. We need to be wary of dire economics in 2013 and 2014.
2:38 PM, ouch! Did I touch a nerve? Just add "stupid"and "totally ignorant" to the list. I am avoiding the 2% discount, so the tax office is getting 2% more from me in the end. That should cover the TAN's, shouldn't it? Seems like a pretty harmless way for me to feel like I have some control of my destiny here in this wonderful land of Lebo.
ReplyDeleteElaine
It would also help if we hae commissioners who understood basic, and I mean basic, economics. I fially got around to reading Linfante's write-up in MTL magazine. I first thought it was a parody because it was so childish and had nothing to do with her charge as a commissioner. Then I read it again and felt sheer embarassment. She's one of five people who can authorize sinking this community yet she knows absolutely nothing about how the system works?? We need better. We're all paying too much to live here to not have representatives who at least have a grasp on how to use our taxes.
ReplyDelete10:58 AM, it was a perfect submission to a publication that offers nothing but fluff. After all, there are some who feel like we are living in a Norman Rockwell painting. Remember that comment from a school board meeting?
ReplyDeleteElaine
Gee, would that be the famous "Save Freedom of Speech" painting?
ReplyDeleteWe could use some more of that around here.