Dave has written a very long letter to the community titled, "Field Failure." He gives a little background behind what happened to developing McNeilly fields and continues with why we need to turf Wildcat and Middle Fields. Dave goes on to announce an ad-hoc committee to review the field situation and determine if there is a field shortage.
I will be proposing at the next meeting the creation of the Mt. Lebanon Sports Facilities and Services Board. This board would be a joint entity with the school district to assess and review all sports related facilities in Mt. Lebanon (both Municipal and School District Facilities). It would consist of the Director of Recreation as well as our Municipal Fields Superintendent as well as the Athletic Director and Facilities Director from the School District (I have already discussed this the School Board and they have offered their staff for this joint venture). Additionally, each recognized sports organization would be entitled to have a representative on the Board. Finally, due to the overlap between our municipal parks and our fields we would ask for a member of the Parks Board to participate as well. Of course there will also be a commission liaison appointed and, should they so desire, a School Board liaison as well. The Board will operate as all other boards do with the possible exception of the frequency of their meetings. My direction will be that the first order of this board will be to review our field situation and determine whether or not there is a field shortage. And if so, what are our best options to address it.Dave ends his letter with
I did not believe that people were accurately reflecting what had occurred over the last few months when they discussed these issues.I am not sure which people were not accurately reflecting what had occurred; Kelly, Dave Franklin, the anonymous posters or me. Whomever he meant, there is always the option of listening to the podcasts on lebocitizens.com.
Sounds fair, Dave.
ReplyDeleteNew board members would be Dave Franklin from the Parks Advisory and page 11 of the YSA proposal.http://mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/8952
Elaine
Yeah, a new, real impartial, objective, unbiased, with no preordained outcomes intended, cross section of the demographics of the community advisory board membership.
ReplyDeleteDoes he think we are all stupid ?
Of course he will be the Commission liaison and Franklin the board chair.
What a sham and shame !
Is it a field failure or a field of dreams failure? Kluck and Fraasch should vote down the bond and fugetaboutit.
ReplyDeleteElaine,
ReplyDeleteYou hit the nail on the head. Dave B is pulling a fast one and will undoubtedly stack the new board with Franklin and his YSA buddies.
Yes, he thinks we are all stupid. Put Kelly on there so she can educate the people on what was proposed!
Dave and the youth sports groups could have had a shovel in the ground for Robb Hollow field space in a couple of months. Instead they will study it for months to try to get turf.
Dave will be knee deep in his re-election by then.
It's not a bad idea but as 11:10 suggest it is definitely skewed in favor of the field turf interest.
ReplyDeleteThere doesn't seem to be any representation planned for residents that might be interested in say- walking or biking trails. How about Elaine's skateboarders (lost that available money already).
Not everyone in this community wants to play lacrosse or football, but the composition of the commissioner's plan certainly seems to have been created solely for advancing those sports alone.
It's incredible! Here we have two government entities - one that had to borrow $2 million to pave streets (which it's obligated to maintain from our tax payments) and instituted an $8/month rain water tax and asking for revenue-generating ideas,
ReplyDelete- the other debating whether to gamble &900,000 in hopes of raising $6 million over 6 years so it can pay for it's new high school -
preoccupied with either new or turret fields.
Personally, I'm not against either perhaps at some point.
I'd prefer paying down some debt (wouldn't that eventually free up revenue), deal withbinequities in the assessments (looks like there is certainly some revenue to be had there), then and only then look for ways to spend money.
His numbers are not at all accurate when it comes to what was presented for Robb Hollow. Plus his numbers for turf do not reflect the cost of additional parking needed to accommodate more games.
ReplyDeleteWild/Middle doesn't have lights right now for the whole field. He doesn't include that cost either. It's quite funny how he ratchets up Robb Hollow for those costs but neglects to do the same for Wildcat.
The access road might be an issue at Robb Hollow but the access road is an issue right now at Cedar. Anyone who thinks otherwise ought to go down there when they have multiple games going at once. It is crazy.
Another joint entity ?? As in joint maintenance agreement and joint discussion meetings ?? Another winner !!
ReplyDeleteGood point, 1:11 PM. Maybe they will have to meet during community coffees with the school board directors.
ReplyDeleteDo you think they will count the slots for turfing the Rock Pile this time around?
Elaine
to be fair 1247, i dont believe any of the current commissioners were elected when the town borrowed $2 million to pave the streets, that was raja's boondoggle
ReplyDeleteReferendum referendum, cha cha cha...say it with me...
ReplyDeleteOUR STREETS ARE BEGINNING TO LOOK LIKE DORMONT AND THE COMMISSION PRESIDENT STILL CAN'T GET HIS PRIORITIES STRAIGHT.
ReplyDeleteDAVID, THE SIDEWALKS ARE MESSED UP TOO.
THE FOURTH WARD DESERVES BETTER REPRESENTATION
THAN A BUNCH OF DEADBEAT ATHLETIC SUPPORTERS!
8:40 you are correct but the bond still needs paid back, as does the bill for the McNeilly property.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't matter whom created the debt.
Streets will still need paving, current fields maintained and the current commissioners are still looking for new revenue ideas.
Raising taxes to turf or build new fields won't get Bower Hill and Washington property developed or attract new home construction on vacant property.
ReplyDeleteIn an era of budget crunches, pay freezes, and layoffs, it is amazing to me how much time the current commission president has allowed to be wasted on field issue.
ReplyDeleteThe only reason anyone would allow this to happen is if they had a personal agenda to do something about this.
Dave, when was the last time you had a discussion about your underfunded pension mess? When was the last time you had a discussion about staffing levels at public safety and municipal levels?
I could have sworn that past commissions talk about other things besides fields.
This is so much like the school board. The school district has been so focused on the high school project that they have neglected their primary responsibilities of providing the best education possible to each and every student. Ask those special needs kids at the high school if they feel they had enough focus on them when they failed to meet AYP last year. I am sure they and their parents would have appreciated a little more attention paid to them instead of the high school project. And yet, the superintendent still got a raise.
The commission seems to be heading down a similar path. This field issue was picked up at the end of last year and it has remained at the forefront for an entire year. Meanwhile, all the important things keep getting pushed to the back burner.
It's time for a new president and probably a new commission.
Last year, we had a commission president working against the clock trying to cover as many issues as possible on the "tentative list of follow up items for future meetings" that is posted at the bottom of every discussion meeting agenda. Two items have appeared on that list for most of the year, Skateboard ordinances and Residential electricity broker. Skateboard ordinances is self explanatory, but the residential electricity broker would benefit EVERY resident in this community. I have emailed and asked at meetings when we will be able to get group rates on our electric bill, and Dave's answer at meetings has been that there isn't enough time at meetings to discuss it. Yet, he makes time for more discussion about fields. I never got a response to my emails from him about the energy broker. I have been asking for this for over a year. I had even found a broker who could do it for us.
ReplyDeleteAnother item leftover from the Dan Miller era, was taking control of the slum landlord issue here. That has disappeared completely. But as my commissioner so rudely pointed out to me, Dan Miller is no longer a commissioner and if they want to spend $30,000 or $30 million, they can.
Elaine
2:49 and Elaine, exactly.
ReplyDeleteThe certain people remind me of the little kid I saw on my last visit to Toys R Us - "waaaaa, I want it., I want it, buy me it, buy me it!"
Resolve or get back the millions spent on Twin Hills and McNeilly Mr. B, then we'll be more receptive to talking about tutrf or another field.
ReplyDeleteThere has been way too much time and money spent on athletics and youth sports in particular, by both the school board and the commissioners.
David,
ReplyDeleteThank you for documenting the access road, limited parking and excavation issues associated with the Robb Hollow plan.
David,
ReplyDeleteThank you for failing to secure additional field space for our youth sports teams.
David,
ReplyDeleteThank you for not charging a fee unless you get turf.
This place is ridiculous with all the time attention going to youth sports.
ReplyDeleteObviously most residents didn't get the memo about not putting leaves in the streets until after the storm because they are everywhere. Hopefully all the storm sewer revenue will cover any flooding and potential damage. Oh, but what do commissioners spend their time on? Why, turf for kids of course! Why do we have to pay for sewage and yet the turf or other resources going into fields are for "free"?
Priorities sure are screwed up in the great state of Mt. Lebanon.
Funny you wrote about the leaves, 3:26 PM. I just came in from raking the leaves away from two catch basins in my neighborhood. Either people don't listen or the rules don't apply to them. We'll see how much flooding will be around Wildcat and Middle Fields in the next couple of days. Kelly suggested addressing the drainage on those two fields and Bendel and Linfante said no. Brumfield wouldn't comment since two commissioners were against it already.
ReplyDeleteElaine
David,
ReplyDeleteThank you for failing to correct the drainage for fields along Cedar.
This is an important notice from LeboALERT.
ReplyDeleteAll Mt. Lebanon Basketball Association skills clinics are canceled tonight due
to weather.
If they had turf, it wouldn't be a problem.
Elaine
Elaine:
ReplyDeleteFunny you should mention raking leaves away from the catch basins - that is what I was doing this morning for a while.
On a somewhat related issue, in the Spring of this year the municipality's sanitary sewer blocked at a point just down stream from my property and backed up into my basement. The DPW people came and cleaned the line. They, and some of my neighbors, also helped this old guy clean up his house (my wife was in California at the time and missed all the fun).
It is this kind of infrastructure failure that illustrates the importance of prioritizing services. Maintaining infrastructure is a basic obligation of the municipality; tax dollars spent on fake grass is not. You can go without a field and get along quite well - try doing that without a sewer.
Richard,
ReplyDeleteWe can't have proper street, sidewalk, deer, or sewer maintenance until Dave and Dave get more athletic space or is it field improvement?
Now that we have spent the better part of Brumfield's presidency to figure out what the issue is, attorney Brumfield needs a jury (committee) of athletic cronies to tell him what the YSA is talking about. Too bad attorney Franklin and the Commission can't figure it out.
Elaine,
ReplyDeleteYou know that I am very involved with the Mt. Lebanon Basketball Association, even though I have no children in the program. On many occasions, I have stated that our organization has had to beg other communities such as CV for gym time at their facilities because of the limited time/space available in our own community. Furthermore, the gentleman that I coach with and I have rented gym time/space either our own expense or with minimal contributions from our teams.
The MLBA has approached the SB for Sunday gym times with the stipulation that we reimburse the district for any expense over & above the normal operating costs.
The Skills Clinic is our largest fundraiser. The registration fees help offset equipment purchase costs, referee payments and tournament entry fees. This is over & above the participation fee that is assessed to every player that makes our teams. FYI, this clinic is usually held in three sessions. Last week, the first session at the S. Gym was delayed due to a scheduled power outage. This fact was never communicated to us, so we had about 100 girls sitting in a dark gym waiting for half an hour until the lights came on. Tonight’s session was canceled for obvious reasons.
Our organization is moving along with little assistance from the school district and municipality. We are not clamoring for more/better facilities. If there are any plans to upgrade our facilities, the MLBA has stated our intent to share in the financial responsibilities incurred. Instead we find unique ways to make this organization successful on many levels. Based on many of the blog posts, this is congruent with the sentiment of the community at large.
You and I agree on many of the points discussed in this forum. Typically, I try to provide a common sense and balanced approach in my postings. However, tonight’s turf comment that you made is out of bounds and childish. The mere fact that you state this puts you and your blog in a bad light.
Chuck,
ReplyDeleteWe have a number of teams that seek space in other districts and I have been wondering:
1) Does any other district use our fields?
2) Why do other districts have space to rent to us if we don't have enough space?
3) Do other districts have more fields or fewer sports?
Easy there tiger. We were all thinking it. Turf is not the answer to our problems. Elaine points that out.
ReplyDeleteMr. Bachorski, I don't think Elaine is your enemy. In my opinion the majority of bloggers here are interested in spreading the wealth around for everyone -- sort of speak. They may do so awkwardly at times unfortunately perhaps.
ReplyDeleteThe problem lies not with that, it lies with the incredible pressure for more and more spending on field sports. That pressure was the impetus behind the HS project and it continues in the logjam and constant attention to turfing at the municipal level.
One would think no one lives in MTL except little kids and their parents dying to play on rectangular turfed fields.
I don't understand it. When there was a 7,000+ K-12 population how did we manage getting all those kids after hours gym time? The student population now is less than 5,300.
Also, did you alert the administration that there offices were negligent in informing you that the power would be off. That is inexcusable that they'd treat taxpayers and kids with such ambivalence.
To John Ewing’s questions:
ReplyDelete1) I do not believe so. MTL used to rent the stadium to various high school and an occasional college team, but this is no longer a fact.
2) I really do not know the answer to this question. Based on my knowledge of CV, their elementary, intermediate, and middle school gyms have larger playing surfaces so they have more flexibility. The MTL elementary gyms are very small in size, so they are pretty much unusable for our purposes. To make matters more complicated, there is a Rec basketball program in MTL, so they gym times are split between organizations.
3) I do not haves an answer to this question. Speaking of basketball only, MTL is pretty unique in having two basketball programs running concurrently.
Anon 12:13, you missed my point. There was no need to take a cheap shot at one organization in order to make a point regarding another organization. Elaine’s comment had no logic or fact behind it. It was merely a hand grenade thrown over the wall to stir things up. My point is that she doesn't need to stoop to this level to make her points.
Mr. B where was the cheap shot?
ReplyDeleteWhat issue has gotten more time at the municipal level than fields/turf, field signs (by the way who is managing that) and The Joint Maintenance Agreement?
If you are referring to the comment about district ambivalence, had you rented a conference room at a hotel for a business meeting for 100 people and arrived to find the lights out what wooing your response have been? I'm betting you'd be in the hotel manager's face and you'd have 100 angry conferees on your hands.
Because these are kids doesn't excuse bad management.
You did not address the issue of how we managed when there at least 2,000 more kids to serve.
Chuck, I didn't take Elaine's comment the way you did at all.
ReplyDeleteChuck,
ReplyDeleteThe answer to the question is that the MLBA has only been around since 1996. Like the other sports associations, most of them did not exist when the student population was much higher. There were far less programs and less opportunities for kids to participate.
I would have loved to have had the opportunity to participate in youth basketball, or football, or soccer, etc when I grew up in Lebo.
Most of the surrounding communities have much newer buildings and have built their facilities to accomodate this increase in participation.
Mr. Bachiefly, this reader didn't see Elaine's comment as a cheap shot at your basketball program. I thought the irony was funny.
ReplyDeleteDidn't you get it? If you had turf your basketball program wouldn't have needed to be cancelled due to heavy rain.
8:43 with the high school renovation aren't we going from 3 high school gyms to 2?
ReplyDeleteSo we have more participation in youth sports, but cut a gym, a ballfield, a rifle range and tennis courts. Seems like we're losing athletic. spaces, not gaining.
So who's beneffitting for all the expenditures?
Anonymous 7:47:
ReplyDeleteThe cheap shot was dragging an innocent bystander (MLBA) into the turf argument. I know as well as you that the turf issue is overly exposed and is nowhere near the top of the hierarchy of this community’s needs. My comments were directed only at Elaine’s post and how these types of comments tend to demean the blog site and her efforts.
I have no inclination to address district ambivalence, as it has become SOP. We dealt with it and moved on. As far as the “2,000 additional kids” comment is concerned, I am not sure where that came from, so I have no reply to it.
Anonymous 8:43
You make a good observation on the newer participation opportunities and facilities. I can only vouch for CV at this point. I know that they have sold off the old neighborhood schools and consolidated them into their present system. When the new assets were built, they included their present athletic accommodations. The gym at the CV Intermediate School was a leftover from when this was the high school facility.
Once again, the gist of my post was to make the point that Elaine’s comments were misdirected, nothing more.
8:43 where and when I grew up we basically had Little League baseball and that was it.
ReplyDeleteBut we certainly played basketball, football, soccer and even hockey. We used roller skates and the basketball court.
On any given summer day it was almost impossible to find a field that wasn't occupied by kids playing one sport or the other from morning to dusk.
No parents, just kids. Amazingly a number of us went on to play college, pro or semi pro.
Drive around Lebo on a summer afternoon sometime. The fields are empty until mom and dad come home and take them to an organized sport.
Mr. B it appears we agree on things more than we disagree. The only issue is Elaine's comment. I thought it made a point and you chose to take it another way.
ReplyDeleteTo me this illustrates how the field issue has divided the community. It's too bad.
Chuck, I know you are frustrated. I would be too with how your organization has been treated by the district. Any lobbing of grenades were aimed at the commissioners and followers who believe turf is the magic pill that this community needs to solve all sports related problems.
ReplyDeleteYour comment is a perfect example of how your group and other non-field sports organizations are being treated like red headed stepchildren.
9:07 AM, I believe we are still going to have three gyms.
Elaine
Wow,reading this thread is a lot like watching the presidential debates. The moderator asks a question and both candidates start to spew a bunch of talking points that may or may not have any bearing on the question at-hand.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 8:58:
Just because you choose to post anonymously doesn't mean that you can mis-spell the names of those who do provide their names.
Chuck, I don't believe that was intentional. Auto correct seems to do that with many comments posted here.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Elaine,
ReplyDeleteNo frustration on my end. I just see this as an apples & oranges situation. You made your point & I made mine. It is time to move on.
Yes it wasn't intentional. Text scrolls and lines disappear before you can catch what auto correct does with it. Sorry
ReplyDeleteOK...understood on the auto correct.
ReplyDeleteThanks
Yes, Mr. Bachorski we agree again. It's time to move on. Might we also do that on the field/turf issues, at least until we resolve other concerns like budgets, pensions, infrastructure, developing the Bower Hill-Washington corner, etc.
ReplyDeleteOh, failed to recognize publically admiration for your group working around inconvenient situation without whining or cosmogony for more. Well done making it work!
The school board included the extra gymnasium.
ReplyDeleteThanks quit watching closely and thought it was an approved delete.
ReplyDeleteWe still lost a nice little field, and spent hundreds of thousands tearing up tennis courts which we'll be without for 4 years until we spend thousands more building new ones.
Anon 10:41
ReplyDeleteThanks for the kudos. However, I should not be the focus of this accolade. Lee Adams and the MLBA Board do the heavy lifting so that our group can remain viable. They are the people who deserve the credit.
Although the field issue is very prominent, it pales in comparison with the real needs of this community as you state in your post.
Yes the comment was directed at the MLBA and all those coaches in other sports that take it on to find an alternative for practices etc.
ReplyDeleteGee had I been playing Scrabble I would've flagged cosmogony. It's a real word but I swear complaining was in it's place as I type the code to submit the comment.
We are in agreement on the real issues, how do we convince the people in charge?
You made your point & I made mine. MORE THAN ONCE. It is time to move on.
ReplyDeleteWhose tossing grenades now Chuck?
Support & vote for the qualified incumbents and work to find qualified candidates to replace those who are not qualified.
ReplyDeleteI would agree except that was tried and extreme and In specific cases illegal efforts were used to undermine the effort. Plus when we do seem to manage to put fair candidates in place, they are quickly attacked.
ReplyDeleteMr. Bachorski is absolutely correct. Next year there are two Commission and four Board positions up for grabs. This town would benefit immensely from real choice on the local ballot in 2013.
ReplyDeleteWhat is wanting are relatively young, independently minded, men and women who are not afraid to advert unorthodox solutions to local issues; especially solutions that do not loot the taxpayer for non-essential services that the majority of residents will never use. I'm sure it would be a challenge and they may not get elected on the first try, but it would be a step in the right direction.
Perhaps Elaine could run for office and the people could demonstrate what they really think of her. Oops!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 2:53:
ReplyDeleteI don't know which you have less of; brains or guts.
There isn't a day that goes by without someone telling me what they really think of me.
ReplyDeleteElaine
See Mr. Bachorski, Elaine hasn't even hinted that she might run again and there are people after her.
ReplyDeleteElaine managed (not alone by any means) to generate a huge petition campaign. Unmatched by the opposing side despite official claims to the contrary.
She runs probably the most successful blog by herself while we've seen RealLebo, Voice of MTL fold up their tents and LeboFields, Bloglebo struggle to garner hits. Neither are bad in my opinion just for the record.
Both political committees are hard pressed to manage their sites annually let alone on a daily basis. Can't imagine any one more in touch with the community.
Yet 2:53 is going to make a prestrike. Elaine must scare 'em.