State Representative Dan Miller is hosting a timely event for his constituents. On Thursday, November 7, 2013 at 6 PM, Dan is hosting a Right To Know Information Session at the Mt. Lebanon Municipal Building. This informational session on PA Right To Know law will feature:
- Panelist Nathan Byerly, Deputy Director of the Office of Open Records.
- Panelist Matt Smith, Minority Chairman of the Senate State Government Committee.
- Public Q & A and discussion with panelists.
Dan has always been a proponent of Open Government. He posted regularly on his blog and encouraged me to record his meetings during his term as Commission President. Dan also opposed closed Joint Discussion Sessions which were held between the Commission and School Board.
Please join Dan at his Right To Know Information Session and learn about updates to the law and best practices for both requestors and officers.
If government bodies like the school board were as transparent as they claim to be, why would there be a need for RTK request?
ReplyDeletebecause to post every email, every memo, etc would be time consuming, and cost prohibitive.
ReplyDeleteThere wouldn't be. Did you know that people who have had a relationship with the school district where they could ask (verbally) for information, are now required to submit a formal RTK request?
ReplyDeleteYou have to be so careful how you ask for something, because they will only grant or deny exactly what you asked. There is no wiggle room with RTK.
Another trick I learned was to ask for the information to be emailed to you in pdf format.
I wrote a tutorial back in June about filing RTKs. Check it out here.
http://lebocitizens.blogspot.com/2013/06/my-first-tutorial-how-to-file-right-to.html
Elaine
The municipality, on the other hand is more reasonable and if you ask for something in a meeting, you don't get a stern "File a RTK!"
ReplyDeleteElaine
I read somewhere that the RTK requested at Mt Lebanon School District are costing TONS of money - like something around $48,000 the first year. I am not sure of the amount but I know it was in that ballpark.
ReplyDeleteI think if we all had faith in the processes around here, we wouldn't need to file the RTK.
If I filed a RTK every time I asked a question that wasn't answered, Mt Lebanon would be up into $200,000 on my RTK. What I have learned is that if you don't get an answer to your question, it's because a dishonest process is being hidden.
Headaches are free though.
5:55 people generally don't go digging for more information if they feel they're getting honest, open and transparent info in the first place.
ReplyDelete6:44 PM, I believe that was for the Right To Know hardware through Ideal Integrations. It cost $48,000 according to the PG article archived on the district website.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mtlsd.org/technology/stuff/20100311-PG.pdf
Elaine
I'll bet about 20 people have filed all of the RTK requests. I would love to know if the information the received changed anything in anyway to justify all of the $$ spent.
ReplyDeleteLet's all file RTK requests and run up the legal bills so the board can't dither dollars away anyway they want.
ReplyDeleteGo ahead 9:12, taxes will go up...thanks!
ReplyDelete9:00 P.M., it's less than 20 people and 4 of them account for 90% of the cost. I hope the information gathered from the RTK's is so important that it justifies the cost.
ReplyDeleteI love how numbers are just picked out of the sky. Obviously, it isn't our right to know. Dan Miller should be ashamed of himself hosting such garbage. The Environmental Team should set him straight.
ReplyDeleteThe school district demands that we file RTKs. Back in 2010, I asked the school board why we are forced to file RTKs for everything we ask.
So cut the crap. It is within our rights. Just ask Dan Miller.
Elaine
Yes, you have the right to make the taxpayers pay for the nonsense you ask for. Is there any single thing that we have spent money on that anybody with an I.Q. over 40 would think is important enough to justify the cost? Please, give us one item.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, what is the cost for a RTK these days? The district invested in the hardware to lower the costs.
ReplyDeleteYou want a single thing? OK, fair enough. Through a RTK, we found in the Master Design Team minutes that the sports groups promised to donate $8 million. Dan Remely brought that to the table.
I know you only asked for a single thing, but how about how the YSA was behind with their Joint Maintenence Agreement by thousands of dollars? This was revealed through a RTK.
Elaine
"Ignorance is bliss".
ReplyDeleteCSC
We want Dr. Steinhauer's 2: a.m. email but we don't think it is worth $2,600. Yes, it was an email not a telephone call.
ReplyDeleteAs ETG knows, but many Blog readers apparently do not, the District is requiring RTK's for even the most mundane and innocuous information. I had to file one, on an official form, to get a listing of all the change orders for the high school reconstruction project (see "October Change Orders" on this Blog). One might ask, "Doesn't the District publish those numbers?" Yes, but it has happened that some CO numbers change (or are eliminated) between those shown on a discussion agenda and the ones voted upon at the subsequent business meeting.
ReplyDeleteSince I am paying for this project, do I not have a right to know where my money is going? Other residents are paying for this project as well, but if some of them are not curious about where their money went that is their misfortune.
The District could save itself time and money by simply posting the paid CO list on its website, but it chooses not to do so.
I'll concede that some information may have to "pass muster" before it can be released. But the plea that the public's request for information drives up District costs is overblown. The District makes copies of everything as it is. Providing a PDF (which is free, by the way) of a non-sensitive public document to a taxpayer would be easy, requiring a few strokes of a computer keyboard. But requiring that a lawyer approve each request for information that has already passed public muster is silly.
During my long years as a teacher in a post-secondary environment my colleagues and I would occasionally be told about our counterparts in the elementary and secondary schools who, because they were around children all day, often couldn't make the mental switch and ended up treating everybody as if they were kids. We may be seeing some of that here.
Of course there was an email. He admitted to it. So let's see if he produces it.
ReplyDeleteThe cost of RTKs isn't $2600 anymore, thanks to the district's $48,000 investment. I don't know how a RTK could have cost $2600 to begin with, but that is what was told to us.
The school district demands that we file RTKs. Why is that?
Elaine
Elaine, the District, in response to significant public questioning, broke down their claim of original average cost of $2,300 per RTK (it was $2,300 not $2,600)as something over $1,700 for "forensic legal review" and the balance District staff time. Absolutely ridiculous ! No one believed it.
ReplyDeleteSo if Dr. S produces an email, then what? Really who cares? What difference does it make? We complain about taxes, then use tax money to say what? I told you so? How will knowing about a email change anything?
ReplyDeleteOh, how quickly we forget!
ReplyDeleteThe school district even chopses to hide infprmation from Auditor Generals.
"Auditor General Cites Mt. Lebanon School District for
Costly, Confidential Buy-Out of Superintendent Contract
HARRISBURG (August 8, 2005) - An audit released today by Auditor General Jack Wagner sheds light on Mt. Lebanon School District's costly and confidential buy-out of its employment contract with former superintendent Dr. Margery A. Sable.
"This contract buy-out is especially troubling because the reasons for it have largely been kept secret from the taxpayers of the district," said Wagner. "Because their tax dollars are paying for the buy-out, the taxpayers deserve to know why Dr. Sable was removed from her position."
"Although we recognize that the district felt constrained by the confidentiality clause, we are disappointed that the district did not provide a complete response to our request for information," said Wagner. He noted that the district's explanation raises more questions than it answers.
Wagner recommended that the district provide as much additional information as possible to Mt. Lebanon's taxpayers, and that the district ensure that future termination agreements do not contain such confidentiality agreements."
http://www.auditorgen.state.pa.us/department/press/mountlebanonsdrelease.html
And people wonder why RTKs are filed!!!
10:58, what now we have Hillary Clinton wannabes living in our midst?
ReplyDeleteIsthis going to to be the accepted attiture of our elexted officials from here on out... "what difference does it make."
It makes a helluva of difference, if taxpayers would wake up, which they could do in about 5 days by NOT, said NOT voting for the imcumbents.
Give the two new guys a chance if you want, but voting again for Remely and Birks is foolish, or just plain lazyness in my opinion.
11:44, don't vote for Remely or Birks.
ReplyDeleteAre you counting on everyone else in the municipality plunking so they don't get in?
All they need is one more vote than the write-ins, if any, to keep their school board seats.
10:58 Answer the question, what will you do with the information if he made a phone call or emailed someone at 2:00 a.m.? Will you file a police report? Will you file a lawsuit? What will you do?
ReplyDeleteNot 10:58 but this quote sums up why we need to have RTKs.
ReplyDelete"Knowledge is power. Information is power. The secreting or hoarding of knowledge or information may be an act of tyranny camouflaged as humility." -- Robin Morgan
2:13, who knows what info the RTK will uncover. It may achieve nothing more than uncovering what sort of person is leading the district. It may uncover nothing as well.
So the Board approved $48,000 for a machine and $2,300 per RTK request to satisfy four people.
ReplyDeleteBy the way taxes won't go up because of Act 1 so the "fearsome four" can file away and the Board will have to make budget cuts to make up the difference. Someday . . . someday, the Board will have a bare bones budget and transparency even if they don't want that.
Don't bet the old homestead on Act 1 holding back future tax increases, 3:52.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ptcc.us/act1explain.htm
Tomorrow will be five business days, if they count Monday as Day 1. I filed the RTK last Friday. I can pretty much guarantee that I will hear around 4 PM tomorrow that the school district will determine that an extension of thirty days will be required to review my request. They are known for that. I also see that Timmy has a say in this. "The District may, at its discretion, disclose a non-public record if disclosure is not prohibited by law or judicial order, the disclosure is not protected by privilege and the Superintendent determines that the public interest favoring access outweighs any individual, agency or public interest that may favor restriction of access." Hmm, Timmy could say that more people are in favor of restricting access than in favor of granting access.
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line is that it will be a month before we get an answer and it could very well be denied.
Elaine
Speaking of RTK.
ReplyDeleteDo we have any idea of how much money that investment in a Capital Campaign Director has yielded to date?
Wouldn't it be nice to get quarterly updates?
Sorry 5:02, campaign contributions don't follow quarterly calendars. We hired a professional to do the job. Let her do her work without anonymous snide remarks. Sign your name if you have something positive to contribute.
ReplyDeleteJohn and 5:02 PM, this is about Dan Miller's Right To Know Information Session. Let's try to stay on topic and not make this about fundraising or signing your name, OK?
ReplyDeleteElaine
Elaine,
ReplyDeleteIf you had not published an off-topic remark I would not have responded.
The RTK requests stem from a natural concern among citizens as to whether the chief educator is treating people and situations requiring assistant in a manner that reflects "good moral character", consistent with PA Education Law.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/US/HTM/1949/0/0014..HTM
Thank you, 1:19am , for your link.
ReplyDeleteEventually the school district will have to show the progress on and the expenses from the Capital Fundraising Campaign, John.
Maybe not quartely, but by year end according to Section 216
of the PA Public School Code of 1949 they will have to divulge the income and expenses of the effort.
Article Ii, Swction 216--
"to keep an accurate account of all devises, bequests, grants, endowments, gifts, and donations accepted, the income arising therefrom, the proceeds thereof, and the expenses of administering the same; and at the end of each fiscal year to render a detailed statement of such devises, bequests, grants, endowments, gifts, and donations, held and possessed by such school district, the proceeds thereof, the investments which have been made therewith, the income arising therefrom, the expenses of administration, and the purposes to which the income arising therefrom have been applied. Such statement shall be audited as hereinafter provided for the auditing of school finances."
Which is why I thought it was on topic, Elaine, I doubt the board will make it easy to follow or get involved with this fundraising effort..
This is my first experience with a 'clandestiine' Capital Fundraising Campaign and I'm betting it is not SOP with Pursuant Ketchum.
So continue to ride your high horse John, its OK.
No one is bashing your pals at PK. only questioning when we'll see information the public is legally entitled too.
11:44 AM, no problem. It was semi on topic, so that is why I approved it. I didn't want it to turn into a whole fundraising/anonymous comments debate.
ReplyDeleteElaine