and Update for Unassigned Funds.
There will be a presentation given to the commissioners tomorrow evening during the Commission Discussion Session on Pay As You Throw. Residents will be able to ask questions or comment during the commission meeting which follows at 8:00 PM.
Additionally, these items were removed from the Unassigned Funds Wish List:
- Iroquois fill and grass-Provides removing mulch from old play area and leveling the surface with topsoil and planting grass. $3,500
- Pathway around pool-Pathway outside of the swim center that acts as a connector from the Vee Lynn Drive to the recreation center. $41,170
- Sidewalks at tennis center-Pave remaining asphalt paths with concrete. $100,000
- Golf Course Pavillion-Place a pavilion near the first tee for outings and special events. $60,000
- Replace Rockwood park rubber sidewalks $1,500
- Replace Martha’s playground rubber surface $15,000
- Public Works Facility Improvements- Add vehicle maintenance bays, addition to existing building and site improvements. $1,252,600
Sounds like they are cutting items from their wish list because $800,000 isn't going to cover the turf project— that doesn't sit well with a number of residents as well as the EPA.
ReplyDeleteNow if they got the $2 million back for the McNeilly Park boondoggle we could deal with some of the dropped items.
Unfortunately, our commissioners chose to pretend like McNeilly Park (ha, ha... that's good-park) doesn't exist.
The public works project would never go through if legal requirements were adhered to... in fact, Mt Lebanon has a serious public works problem...given that pw is located in the most flooded area of Mt Lebanon. Ya can't just keep rebuilding on worsening flood areas unless, of course, you want to start adding levees to our list of infrastructure needs.
ReplyDeleteThe money for public works should be set aside in a fund -- allocated to address this significant issue that no one is addressing.
Next on the agenda will be PAYF.
ReplyDeleteThis will be an environmental effort to cut down on the amount of excremental and bile individual households send to our waste sewage treatment plants.
Those residents wearing Pampers or Depends will be able to apply for an exemption certificate though doing so will raise your monthly PAYT invoice.
PAYF or Pay As You Flush is not to be confused with PAYBW (Pay As You Break Wind) which will be a future municipal initiative to reduce the amount of methane released into the atmosphere.
ReplyDeleteIf you happen to own a cow or eat a lot of Mexican food you're really going to pay thru the nose- pun intended.
Right on, 11:43 AM ! And 11:10 AM, that $2.0 million original cost with 10 years of interest is now more like $2.6 million ! And, when it was appraised back in 2009, when the then commission wanted to sell the albatross for residential, tax generating development, the appraisal came in at under $1.0 million ! And we have another 10 years of bond payments, including more interest yet to pay. No one has gone to jail on this deal, but should have.
ReplyDeleteThe removal by the corrupted muni people of the toxic rubber sidewalks and toxic rubber playground surface projects (made from ground up toxic tires) from the Unassigned Fund Balance Wish List is undoubtedly because these idiots have specified the ground up toxic rubber crumb from tires rubber for infill for the toxic turf project on hold at the Cedar Blvd. athletic fields. They don't want to admit their idiocy, and hoped no one would figure this all out. They are such amateur's.
Right, 2:33.
ReplyDeleteA $2.6 million investment in property that is sitting there unused that almost no one in the municipality except for a few deer and maybe an occassional bird watcher uses.
Had the McNeilly property sold through normal channels it would still be on the municipal tax rolls.
At 27.66 mills cummulative MTL property taxes on a $1 million assessed property-- we're losing $27,660 in tax revenue each and every year.
But our foolish commissioners will look for new ways to spend hard-earned residents money rather than dealing with wasteful spending all ready on the books.
We won't even begin to talk about the Twin Hills fiasco.
But 2:33 we keep re-electing these people or moving them to higher public service positions.
ReplyDeleteIt is a pretty good bet that the parents of the students participating in the Jr Commissioner's survey are "extremely robust and unequivocal" in their dislike for PAYT as well.
ReplyDeleteOur comissioners will dispite their constituents sentiments, continue to hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil on PAYT.
Too bad it's not PAYB (Pay As You Bullsh-t). The commission could have turfed half of Lebo by now.
ReplyDelete3:19 they paper 99% of MTL about every month with BS in the form of MTL magazine.
ReplyDeleteWe sure exhaust and push some of our hard working elected officials with an ounce of integrity down the toilet. Rarely do we share support to our officials that stand up and do what they can. I read a post recently putting Commissioner Fraasch down for not standing up on the turf issue, but the RTKs show she consistently reminded her fellow Commissioners of her concerns. She made many inquiries including the letter she wrote to the EPA (she read the night of the vote.) However we have posters that are willing to spew crap even on our top official on the Commission with little thought of the time and effort Commissioner Fraasch has spent on our community. I won't be surprised if she announces recently that she will not be seeking reelection.
ReplyDelete9:36 PM, i'm confused by your comment. I don't see anything negative about Kelly Fraasch here. Kelly is the only commissioner who works.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Elaine @ 9:51. Maybe 9:36 didn't recognize that you sincerely believe that Kelly Fraasch's blog is a reputable source for information. Your blog and Kelly's are definitely the best sources of information in Mt Lebanon.
ReplyDeleteMany of us are thankful for Kelly's service. I know I am!
Of course it is a reputable source. That's why the PIO failed to mention it. Reading all the RTKs I have filed, it is clear that Kelly has taken too much crap from fellow commissioners, staff, and SAB. If you added up all the hours that Kelly has put into this job, she surpased the four others' efforts combined. If Kelly doesn't run again, you can blame the four Democrats on the commission, staff, and SAB. Knowing how nasty they can be, they're probably high fiving each other. I despise the state of affairs our local government has become.
ReplyDeleteShould I wear my fireproof suit to tomorrow's PAYT presentation?
Elaine
Kelly Fraasch has shown that she can listen and work to find solution that meet everyone's needs.
ReplyDeleteDoes that mean one has to agree with her position on every issue, I don't think so.
Does that mean she is not doing a stellar job as commissioner, I don't think so.
From what I understand, Kelly is for PAYT... as long as there is drop in taxes that equal what was being charge for the old collection system.
Hopefully though the commission will still with the old system.
It is no secret that I am not keen on PAYT. I fear that the savings which the municipality will gain, won't be passed on to the taxpayers. I think it will be an accounting nightmare and another headache for residents. What kind of leverage does a single household have vs. an entire community?
ReplyDeleteThe PAYT concept is not consistent with the commissioners' actions. I don't know about Bendel or Silverman, but I know that Linfante and Brumfield are 100% behind tearing down a 1972 high school building. So is the ESB pyromaniac. Bendel, Silverman, Linfante and Brumfield want artificial turf which has to be replaced every eight years or so. Talk about filling landfills! They are such hypocrites.
Elaine
I think this is what 9:36pm is talking about on a former post.
ReplyDeleteI saw it too.
Anonymous said...
Elaine IF Fraasch is "decent" then why isn't she demanding all the emails, letters, etc that you had to file for and Out them? Is it some kind of democrat thing? Now I hear that Mt Lebanon has one of those cell phone spoof things. Why? How much military equipment has the police picked up? Are they still planning on putting up Red Light Cameras up for revenue? Or is it to watch who comes and goes? There is so much more WRONG here than soccer/lacrosse fields. I'm glad my grandfather and father are no longer here to see what has happened to the community they built. Maybe they should have kept the land for farming!
September 4, 2014 at 4:19 AM
I sure hope Kelly runs again or we are doomed. Anyone have an idea?
ReplyDeleteI don't know to whom I address this, 9:36 PM, 4:19 AM, or 7:53 AM, so here it goes.
ReplyDeleteMy RTKs show that Kelly is constantly kept out of the loop by staff, commissioners, and advisory boards. How can she "out" anyone if she is bypassed? I have been to many meetings where Kelly has questioned Steve Feller as to why residents get information before "they" do. Three examples off the top of my head - the Moody downgrading, the turf plan at Middle and Wildcat, and Dick's Sporting Goods deal.
Elaine
Bummer , to get to the 4M$ pool we will still have to walk through the mud.
ReplyDeleteElaine, I think you are 100% spot on, that the PAYT savings won't be passed on to the taxpayer. It will be an accounting nightmare- hell the municipal can't even collect on parking tickets. Plus PAYT fees will rise rapidly and commissioners will be able to claim they can't be blamed for them!
ReplyDeleteI have heard she is from a Democrat on the committee and she is not from others. Has anyone asked her?
ReplyDeleteMy next thought is who would replace her. Ward 5 will soon learn they were spoiled if she doesn't run.
PAYT supporting commissioners will argue that switching to a PAYT garbage collection scheme will reduce waste going to landfills and therefore save the environment.
ReplyDeleteWith the other hand they've signed off on importing 20,000 used tires in the form of crumb rubber joining tons of plastic fibers for the field turf at Wildcat/Middle Field which will wash into our streams and rivers and in eight years be carted off to a landfill.
And they're serious!
Elaine,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean by the "ESB pyromaniac"?
A DEP report on Lebo's PAYT initiative from 2012. Has Lebo followed through on the recommendations from the report?
ReplyDeletehttp://files.dep.state.pa.us/Waste/Recycling/RecyclingPortalFiles/Mt_Lebanon_502.pdf
See the post, This is what I am dealing with. Hope that helps, 5:57 PM.
ReplyDeleteElaine
It's a shame that these worthwhile projects will be scrapped in order to get the toxic turf. This is bad for our community and taxpayers, and most of all unhealthy for our children.
ReplyDeleteThey're talking about PAYT. OMG, the ESB chair doesn't expect a reduction . She said something like, "Ask not what your municipality can do for you, but what can you do for your municipality." They are also saying that if they go with weekly recycling, it could cost residents an additional $25 a year in taxes.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Tell the big-hearted, generous ESB Chair that since they're in such a giving mood, they can cover my PAYT fee once it is implimented!
ReplyDeleteIt'll be for the community.
Hey ESB Chair, lets have a PAYD (Pay As You Drive) fee as well.
ReplyDeleteThe bigger your SUV and the more miles you put on it the higher the fee one pays.
It all adds up to saving the environment, cutting oil consumption, saving wear and tear on our roads and getting residents to walk more.
Remember - "ask not what you can do" and all that hookum.
Two questions--
ReplyDelete1. We're going to go from recycling pick-up every other week to recycling pick-up every week and it is only going to cost $25 more annually?
BULLSHIT!
2. If PAYT's main objective is to reduce the amount of garbage we throw out... why do we need to go from every other week recycling pick-up to every week pick up? Shouldn't we actually go from every other week to say once a month?
I think somebody is making up facts!
This isn't going to happen any time soon. I think the program wouldn't start until 2016. The PAYT committee said that it is a very complex subject and it would take at least six months of public education on the topic. After all these months, the PAYT committee isn't entirely on board with it. I'm not sold on it. You would have to buy a box of bags that would cost about $13.00. Each bag is around a $1.50 or so. They also talked about starting in the middle of 2016 so that we aren't starting in winter weather.
ReplyDeleteElaine
We would not be charged directly for the recycling. It would come out of our taxes. Their thought is that everyone will start to recycle more since we would be charged for garbage pick up, 10:27 PM.
ReplyDeleteElaine
I don't like this PAYT idea very much. There hasn't been adequate outreach to the wider community and I can guarantee that a large segment of the population is going to be shocked by the change and consequently some will put their trash in with their recycling. There may also be an increase in dumping.
ReplyDeleteI think the ESB should step back and undertake a serious audit of the community and its current practices with respect to sustainability. Aren't there things we might be mandated to do, by law, that we aren't doing, that they can address before creating a new problem?
Also, I think that mandating this sort of change requires a sequential, incremental process that has not be initiated. There ought to be a few steps this town takes before we have PAYT. Read the DEP report for starters. They pointed all of this out 2 years ago.
I just finished reading the DEP report. Here is the hyperlink to the DEP report.
ReplyDeleteJust a suggestion to the C O M M I S S I O N, Kristen.* You might want to start listening to the DEP more.
Elaine
*Listen to my comments during the meeting tonight to understand why I wrote that. I uploaded the podcasts.
Sorry I now this is off topic but I don't know who or where to ask about this. My husband has decided to move his business out of PA so we are getting ready to sell our house. The realtor came and said that our wooden deck needed to be replaced as it would never pass an inspection. She had a guy that could it. Monday the crew started. They ripped it apart and carted it all away. Then yesterday they dug huge holes against our neighbor's fence and poured cement. I'm almost positive that these are partly on their property. When I asked why they were doing it I was told that the new deck was going to the edge of the property line. I also learned that the new deck will have a awning that too will go to the property line. We were told that we didn't need a building permit because we were just replacing a structure. Now it appears that we are doing much more. My husband is so busy moving the business he is trusting this guy but I'm scared that once it's done we'll have to tear it down. In Mt Lebanon can you build to the property line? Is there a way to check on a contractor? What happens if these concrete things are on my neighbor's property?
ReplyDeleteElaine @ 10:40. So the idea is that to reduce waste and the amount of trash we dispose of we going to have to get in our polluting automobiles.. drive to buy a bunch of plastic trash bags that come in a box... drive home... then put our recycling in one of those bags which will be picked up every week by an energy consuming trash truck.
ReplyDeleteAnd this is better than putting all you recycling in one marked trash can that gets picked up every other week?!
How is this environmentally better or more efficient?
Nancy,
ReplyDeleteThe burden of any permitting should fall solely on the contractor. It's his responsibility.
8:44, it's not. It's a handout to a special interest, for-profit company. Any "savings" will be a kickback to the municipality from the company, which will be used by the Commissioners to enable more spending on projects we don't want and don't need.
ReplyDeleteJNH
Nancy I always thought the "Set Back" I was 5'. Not sure who to contact at the township but someone there should be able to help. When we did our deck the contractor handled all permits and paperwork. We had to place the permit in our front window. I seem to remember the township coming to inspect it during and after construction too.
ReplyDeleteI think the ESB should work on getting people walking safely in the community.. this will clean up our air quality, reduce traffic, and promote better health. The kids are supposed to walk to school here anyway.... and that's sustainable... can't we focus on the basics before trying new things that we aren't sure will actually work or provide savings in the long run?
ReplyDeleteAs far as new fees go, I am paying that storm water fee and I haven't seen any improvements in the handling of storm water... in fact, the flooding just seems to be more significant and frequent. My local storm sewer looks horrific. My street doesn't have new curbs and it is falling apart... yada, yada.
Let's see if this town can handle the basics... first.
From my experience you can not put up any structure within 5' of the property line in Mt. Lebanon, Nancy. Check with Joe Berkeley.
ReplyDeletehttp://mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?nid=1639
ReplyDeleteNancy, visit the above link to read about building decks in MTL.
This following link accesses various guideline publication for construction in the municipality and permit applications.
http://mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?NID=225
If what you wrote is accurate, it seems your realtor may have given you bad advice.
Although keep in mind the municipality and school district often times don't follow their own codes and regulations from what I've observed.
Explain this one to me, please.
ReplyDeleteThe whole rational to PAYT is supposedly to cut down on the trash we put out to the curb for pick up.
So what is the PAT proposal... households will be required to buy at least one box of trash bags for recycling items.
So, there approximately 14,000 housing units in the Grand Duchy of Mt. Lebanon. If each unit buys one box of recycling bags that means we've added over 189,000 plastic garbage bags and 14,000 cardboxes to Lebo's waste.
Now there is a conservation effort if I've ever seen one! Hahahahahahahaha
How many trash bags do you use now in your recycle specific trash recepticle that gets picked up every other week?
Do you really want to pay an extra $25/year and need to buy boxes of plastic trash bags so you can feel like your doing something green?
I don't think that is how it is going to work. The bags that you buy will be for the stuff you DON'T recycle. At least that is how I understand it.
ReplyDeleteElaine
So it is even worse if its for regular garbage.
ReplyDeleteWhy not continue to use 40 gal. - Rubbermaid or other brand - trash cans that get used over and over again for years instead of plastic trash bags.
Plus, if the bags are for regular trash that is going to a landfill, is it not?
First of all, I am not sure if the bags are paper or plastic. The idea of using bags is it is Pay As You Throw. You are buying the bags and that is how you are being charged for the regular garbage.
ReplyDeleteThey really haven't gotten into the specifics yet. We're talking 2016. They have not made any decisions yet.
Elaine
It's not the Mt Lebanon commission's place to dictate how much garbage I generate. They should focus on, as someone wrote, the basics. We have streets and sidewalks falling apart yet five people, with ZERO background in environmental engineering, chemistry or ecology, are going to formulate a plan for all of us to reduce our garbage? Why? And what's with the ridiculous recycling push from the magazine? Hey, here's my response--it's none of your business. It also has zero impact one way or the other on this community.
ReplyDeleteGo fix the damn roads.
Sounds like there is a lot that needs to be discussed regarding PAYT.
ReplyDeleteElaine We moved here from a community that had a PAYT system and it was awful. In fact we would have NEVER bought our home if we even thought Mt Lebanon was thinking about it. We had to either go to the Township building between 10am - 3pm to purchase cheap green plastic garbage bags with the stupid town's logo on it for $4.50 per bag. There were just a tad bigger than what you would purchase at Giant Eagle as "Kitchen bags". If you worked they you were forced into purchasing the ugly bags a commissioner's brother-in-law's store for $5.25 a bag. You had to call the trash collector directly if you had a large item like a kitchen chair or sweeper. We had to pay $23 for a small couch to be taken. What happened was people took trash to stores and dumped stuff at the dumpsters. The parks had tires, refrigs, and old Little Tykes slides. So look down your street on garbage day and count each bag as $5... Guess what the profit will fund here?
ReplyDeleteI'm womdering if the trash cans that are in the park in my neighborhood will be removed. It is not uncommon for a driver to pull over, throw away a water bottle or soda can, along with their trash from McDonalds and then drive away. People can throw away their garbage in the park, unless the remove the garbage cans.
ReplyDeleteI know we have regular garbage pickers on trash night and that technically, it is illegal, but they do serve a purpose - keeping those kitchen chairs and sweepers out of landills.
I am not for PAYT. I do enough for the municipality, thank you very much, Ms. ESB Chair.
Elaine
Lets dump all our crap in Mt. Lebanon Park, Bird, Robb Hollow, Brafferton, you name it after mid nights and put our commissioners name on each bag and item. Wear gloves - the cops will test for prints & dna.
ReplyDeleteThe dumpsters placed in Parse Way are illegal and have been repeatedly reported, but typically no enforcement because they are owned by the privileged restaurants and merchants in Uptown. Dump your crap in those dumpsters - the cops can't do anything about it because they are there illegally.
ReplyDeleteOh dear God 7:44 p.m., this is my biggest fear - that the bags will be only sold during M-F when I am at work. I work a 50 hour week and have a 2 year and a newborn on the way. I literally get 1 hour of free time, and it's at 8 o'clock at night. I will lose it if on top of working, child care, grocery shopping, doctor's appointments and house cleaning, I have to find time to get to the municipal building to buy these stupid bags. Hopefully they will be available at the Giant Eagle and other local stores. Actually, scratch that - I hope PAYT goes away entirely.
ReplyDeletePAYT plan is just another head game for the township to manipulate taxpayers out of more money and skip out of responsible leadership in the community. The 4 clown Commissioners (excluding Kelly Fraash) have lacked any degree of fiscal responsibility. This is disgusting! Another attempt to bully taxpayers out of money for pecuniary gain. The taxpayers in ML desperately need an outside State Audit! It is beyond stink!
ReplyDeleteThe garbage collection in place works just fine and has done so for years.
ReplyDeleteSure it'll cost a little more each year. Fuel cost go up, labor cost go up, equipment cost go up.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
As a kid (many many years ago) Mt Lebanon had weekly pickup of "kitchen garbage". The men actually went to your back yard and got your can. Plastic bags weren't! Then once a month you placed household stuff at the curb. We had just moved here and my parents used to laugh because the neighbors would make a party out of walking the neighborhood "junk-picking" other people's garbage. I'd rather go that route than try to find a way to buy $10 blue&gold bags at the ice rink or uptown. You know the hours will NOT be worker friendly! Worse yet senior friendly!
ReplyDeleteSo with this PAYT plan people that chose or cannot afford to use a kitchen sink garbage disposal could potentially be penalized for NOT sending their food scraps and maybe expired perscription drugs onto our waste treatment plans instead of to a power generating incinerator or landfill?
ReplyDeleteSince this entry is a little bit about unassigned funds, I am wondering why Summer Place residents who have demonstrated that their street is not really "private" must continue to beg for reasonable inclusion within Mt Lebanon's street care program.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to suggest that they block off their portion of the street, making it truly private, until Mt Lebanon rises to the occasion of decency and commits to fix their street, along with others, public as well, that are truly in great disrepair.
First of all, garbage cans with lids are the best way to dispose of trash. Animals get into the plastic bags and create a mess. This was even in MtL magazine some time ago when they recommended that residents use sturdy garbage cans with lids as a way of preventing rats, raccoons, etc from getting into people's trash. Second, $1.50 per bag? You have got to be kidding. You can buy garbage bags at any grocery store for pennies a bag. This whole PAYT scheme is insane! As a commenter said previously, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Please take that advice, commissioners!
ReplyDeleteEven our kids are wise to the PAYT scam as evidenced in the Jr. Commissioner's survey.
ReplyDeleteWhy are the commissioners so out of it?
The bags are expensive because that is how you pay for your trash pickup. They act as a stick (as opposed to a carrot) to encourage residents to recycle, which would not cost extra for residents. PAYT probably would result in more recycling. As other have mentioned, I suspect people might attempt to throw trash away in private dumpsters. PAYT also has the downside of additional administration costs and potentially resulting in a tax/fee increase for residents.
ReplyDeleteThe do-gooder democrats will not be satisfied until they control every aspect of our lives. PAYT is total BS.
ReplyDeleteGuess I'll throw my garbage in the car and re-locate it. $5 a bag is crazy! What about yard waste? Watch Brumfield increase fines for unkept yards. Of course his friends and neighbors will be exempt! Try walking on his section of Crystal after it snows! Pure BS!!! Has anyone asked where the money saved by this stupid idea would go? My bet is the new indoor sports complex that is now needed so they can compete with Cool Springs sports complex.
ReplyDelete1:50 AM, Where did you see the cost of the bag to be $5.00?
ReplyDeleteElaine
Elaine in the State of WA PAYT bags run between $3.75 and $5.50 depending on the community. They are years ahead of here. They are ripping out their plastic turf fields and replacing them with grass ones. And they are killing PAYT. Since WA is a liberal wasteland it's more of a 'unfair' thing as illegals with large families tend to have to pay more. Yes that was what killed PAYT in the town we just moved from. Not seniors! Not poor people! Illegals...
ReplyDeleteI'm with you on the "unfair" thing. Progressive liberals always whine about how something isn't fair. Here is a news flash-life isn't fair. Never was, never will be. When the government tries to make something "fair" that is perceived to be "unfair" it only makes everything worse.
ReplyDelete