A public protest is being organized with details to follow. For more information, email Anya at Anyalasko@gmail.com
Email exchange between Chief McDonough and a Mt. Lebanon resident:
From: Coleman McDonough [mailto:cmcdonough@mtlebanon.org]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 4:11 PM
To: Mt. Lebanon Resident
Subject: Re: ML deer docs
To: Mt. Lebanon Resident
Subject: Re: ML deer docs
The golf course will remain open but it will be posted to advise golfers and others that hunting activities may be taking place during the time frame you noted in your email.
PA Game Laws require: " . . . Any person who wounds any game or wildlife shall immediately make a reasonable effort to find and kill the game or wildlife." This requirement is irrespective of municipal boundaries.
In regard to insurance issues, the archers will be engaged in voluntary, lawful hunting activities. As such, insurance requirements are no different for these individuals than for hunters engaged in lawful hunting activities anywhere else in the Commonwealth.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 1:00 PM, a Mt. Lebanon resident wrote:
Mr. McDonough,
A few quick questions if I may:
The golf course is open year round and I suspect that golfers will take any given day to hone in on their skills. Even a brisk day doesn’t stop some people. Will the golf course remain open or be shut down for the 26th thru the 24th?
Looking at the maps, a rather sizeable portion of Robb Hollow park is in Upper St Clair. Will the bow hunters be allowed track any deer in that portion of the park? If allowable and if a bow hunter does get hurt on the USC side of RH park, or god forbid a wounded deer runs across the street and causes an accident with a motorist, whose insurance covers any such accident?
Thank you sir,
A Mt. Lebanon resident
Update December 18, 2014 9:25 AM A comment cross posted:
If you witness a deer related hunting or trapping incident - media contacts
If you witness a wounded deer related hunting or trapping incident, and you have a cell phone, take pictures and/or video to document the incident, and call the news desks of the TV stations listed below to report the incident, and ask if they will send out a TV crew to film and report the incident. Also, call the Post-Gazette and The Almanac editors to report the incident, and ask if they will send out a reporter to report on the incident. If we want to stop this reckless and dangerous hunting program, and inhumane trapping program in our parks and neighborhoods, we need to document the incidents, and get the media to report the incidents.
WPXI
News Desk: 412-237-1100
Desk@WPXI.com
KDKA
News Desk: 412-575-2245
newsdesk@kdka.com
WTAE
News Desk: 412-244-4444
Send cell phone picture
ulocal@wtae.com
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
Kim Leonard, Editor
kleonard@tribweb.com
Matthew Santoni, Reporter
412-259-3406 Cellular
msantoni@tribweb.com
The Post-Gazette (South)
Virginia Kopos Joe (Ginny) South Editor
412-263-1414
vkjoe@post-gazette.com
The Almanac
Katie Green, Editor
724-949-1190
kgreen@thealmanac.net
Update December 18, 2014 10:59 AM To encourage even more activity at the golf course:
This is an important notice from LeboALERT.
GIFT CARDS FROM MT LEBANON GOLF COURSE MAKE GREAT STOCKING STUFFERS! CALL THE GOLF SHOP AT 412-561-9761 FOR MORE INFORMATION
Update December 21, 2014 9:03 AM Municipal Archery Program Hunting Maps
Bird Park
Golf Course
McNeilly Park
Robb Hollow Park
And the reason the Golf Course is staying open is...???
ReplyDeleteInsane, isn't it, 6:44 AM?
ReplyDeleteElaine
Umm what about the "field conditions" of the golf course? We have winter golfing in Mt Lebanon on natural grass during our deer slaughter but kids can't play lacrosse in the rain? This place is...
ReplyDeleteIf you witness a deer related hunting or trapping incident - media contacts
ReplyDeleteIf you witness a wounded deer related hunting or trapping incident, and you have a cell phone, take pictures and/or video to document the incident, and call the news desks of the TV stations listed below to report the incident, and ask if they will send out a TV crew to film and report the incident. Also, call the Post-Gazette and The Almanac editors to report the incident, and ask if they will send out a reporter to report on the incident. If we want to stop this reckless and dangerous hunting program, and inhumane trapping program in our parks and neighborhoods, we need to document the incidents, and get the media to report the incidents.
WPXI
News Desk: 412-237-1100
Desk@WPXI.com
KDKA
New Desk: 412-575-2245
newsdesk@kdka.com
WTAE
News Desk: 412-244-4444
Send cell phone picture
ulocal@wtae.com
The Post-Gazette (South)
Virgina Kopos Joe (Ginny) South Editor
412-263-1414
vkjoe@post-gazette.com
The Almanac
Katie Green, Editor
724-949-1190
kgreen@thealmanac.net
@8:56, shouldn't your first call be to the police or animal control to take care of the issue at hand (an injured, suffering animal) rather than the media to score political points?
ReplyDeleteTo score political points? What does that mean?
ReplyDeleteWon't the police and other municipal staff already be there hunting?
Elaine
The gift cards at the Golf Course are a joke. I won a $10 prize last year from the Mount Lebanon Senior Golf League. I was given a card from the golf course shopI redeemed the card for three golf balls and the guy at the desk handed me my card back. I asked him why he was giving me the card and he told me I still had 42 cents left on the card. I handed him the card back and asked for the 42 cents. He told me I would have to redeem the 42 cents the next time I purchased something at the golf course. The next time I will visit the golf course is maybe April. When I got home I put the card through a shredded so I didn't have to carry a 42 cent card in my wallet for four mounts.
ReplyDeleteI knew the golf course was cheap when we had the big discussion over buying a new lawn mower but I didn't realize they were cheap for 42 cents.
Forget the gift card and spend cash at the cheapskate golf course. They can keep the 42 cents.
John Ewing
Looking forward to the protest! I'm sure the turnout will be just EPIC! If there's one thing you can count on, it's Mt Lebanon residents making an effort!
ReplyDeleteI think the best location would be right in the middle of the Bird Park soccer fields! It will provide maximum visibility from the air (for the inevitable news helicopters covering such a enormous gathering of people)! Plus, there's lots of parking!
Thank you for your sarcasm, 7:58 AM. God help us if someone gets hurt because of the "harvest."
ReplyDeleteElaine
If you witness a deer related hunting or trapping incident - media contacts. Follow-up (part 1)
ReplyDeleteI looked up and posted the media contact info. to this blog earlier; i.e. I believe that if you are a resident who wants to stop this reckless and dangerous hunting program, and inhumane trapping program in our parks and neighborhoods, that you (we) need to document the incidents and accidents, and get the media to report them, so that all Mt. Lebanon residents are kept informed.
IMO, we can't expect the police to police themselves, or that the municipality will inform the public or media about hunting incidents and accidents; i.e. the chief of police designed this misguided hunting program, and will be hunting in our parks with other police officers and municipal employees. In doing so, the chief has created a conflict of interest, and has changed the role or perception of the police for many from one of protecting residents, to being the safety threat that many residents fear. Some people could lose their jobs or be sued if this hunting program creates a significant accident, or if residents wake up and get outraged. So I thought that it's important that if accidents and incidents happen, that residents document and report them to the media to expose the danger and cruelty, and so that all residents in Mt. Lebanon are kept informed.
That said, nothing is black and white. Residents may have to make life and death reporting decisions that are congruous with their moral beliefs and the situation. Not all wounded deer are mortally wounded, and many have a good chance of survival.
For example, I have friends in Upper St. Clair, that have frightened wounded deer that seek safe sanctuary in their back yards every year. Remember there is a 50% wounding rate, and a wound is not always a mortal wound. Some times an arrow will cut through the deer's back, thigh, or lower stomach, etc. Some times the arrow penetrates the deer, but gets knocked out by the deer running through the woods, or the wound is not in a vital area or didn't sever a main artery. Some times these wounded deer have a fair to good chance of survival.
One of my USC friends told me a heartbreaking story of a wounded doe with her fawn, which still had some spots showing on her winter coat, which took refuge in her back yard. She immediately recognized them, because they would frequent her bird feeders for a snack, and she had watched the fawn grow up on wobbly legs and nursing on her mom's teats. She loved seeing them, and watching the doe's attentive care of her fawn, and watching the fawn's joyful play discovering the world that summer. She felt a real bond with them. She was totally horrified to see the doe wounded, especially with the fawn by her side, who was still emotionally dependent on her mom, and who needed her mom to show her the survival skills of her first winter. The fawn would likely not survive w/o her mom. Continued (part 2).
If you witness a deer related hunting or trapping incident - media contacts. Follow-up (part 2)
ReplyDeleteThe wound didn't seem like a mortal wound, and she thought that the doe might be able to survive. So she took mercy on them, and put out fresh water, and gave them some apples, so that the doe had some sustenance to heal and survive. After a week, the doe was doing better, and eventually had a full recovery. If she would have called the police or the Pa Game Commission (PGC), they would have killed the doe and her fawn in her back yard, right in front of her. So that story had a happy ending.
That said, there are wounded situations where the deer is mortally wounded and suffering, and needs to be put out of his or her misery as quickly as possible. In those situations, I would call the police to end the deer's suffering as quickly as possible. However, I would still take pictures and video to document the entire event. I would take pictures/video of the wounded deer, the police shooting the deer, and removing the deer. I would document the entire incident, and then I would call the media and newspaper and ask them to do story on the incident, and I would present them with my pictures and video, and tell them the traumatic impact that this had on me and my family. I want everyone in Mt. Lebanon to be aware of this incident. I don't want any covered up.
So Mt. Lebanon residents might be faced with a range of scenarios, and may have to make heartwrenching life or death decisions. Is the deer mortally wounded, or is it a non-mortal wound, and the deer might have a good chance of survival. I've seen many deer survive some nasty accidents and wounds. They have a strong will to survive and live. Residents will have to make those difficult decisions on their own.
BTW, if I see a car-deer collision during this hunting program, I'm going to stop to see if the deer is wounded. Most car-deer collisions happen during hunting season, because hunters push the deer out of their safe home ranges and into the roads, wounded panicked deer run into the roads, and once the matriarch doe is killed, whose job it is to cross her family, the remaining fawns will run across the roads w/o looking. So I will do my best to investigate and document this collision and try to determine if it was caused by a hunter. Many people driving through Mt. Lebanon are not residents, and are totally unaware of the increased collision risks while this hunting program is going on.
FYI, some deer may get shot in the face or head by an arrow, and some may have an arrow stuck in their side or back in a non-mortal area, etc. Some state wildlife agencies will come out and dart sedate the deer, remove the arrow, give them a shot of anitiotics and release them. The Pa Game Commission does not rescue deer. They will kill them, even the fawns.
The only recommendation I'm making to residents on this blog is to document all incidents and accidents, and try to get the media and press to do a report and story on the incident. I believe that the only way to stop this hunting and trapping insanity is to document all accidents and incidents, and try to get an independent media or press resource to report it, so that all Mt. Lebanon residents are kept informed.
Another USC Wounding Incident
ReplyDelete(I received the email below from an USC friend a few years ago.)
No wounded deer in my yard so far. But I did come across one last week that was apparently wounded on the Gilfillan property on Orr Road, close to Route 19. It was thrashing about inside the fenced area. I did not actually see a wound, but the poor thing seemed to be paralyzed and was desperately trying to get up on his legs. I think the wound was underneath him on the side that I couldn't see. Anyway, a man was observing all of this and he said that there were hunters up on the property, and that he has seen them other times. He even saw them drag a dead deer across the walking trail. He said that he was going to go up to talk to them. He said he is also a hunter, but he said he didn't think it was ok to be hunting in a residential neighborhood. Regretfully, I did not ask his name.
A young woman with a small child also came by. She wanted to show her child the deer. She was unaware that it was hurt until she got close. She said she had moved to USC about six months ago, and was completely unaware that hunting was permitted under any circumstances in the township. She was appalled when I told her that hunting was permitted on township and on private property.
I did get her name. I reported the incident to my Commissioner.
10:31 am. I agree that you have the right idea. It took the media to address the cat hoarding situation in Mt Lebanon and perhaps they can help out with ordeal as well. The Game Commission will not help -- they feel they can "decide" on how they follow-up on deer situations, apparently.
ReplyDeleteThis makes me miss Park City, Utah where kids coexist with moose in their back yards and learn how to keep a stop sign between them and an oncoming moose while waiting at their bus stops.
Kids are tougher than adults everywhere....
December 18, 2014 at 6:44 AM, wrote:
ReplyDelete"And the reason the Golf Course is staying open is...???"
Not sure, but I don't think they are closing the parks when hunting is taking place either. Unless, I missed that announcement. If true, am I the only on that thinks this is insane! Besides Police Chief McDonough, who in their right mind can think hunting (using lethal weapons) in Mt. Lebanon's small parks surrounded by homes, and with kids cutting through them all day long, people walking their dogs, and residents using the parks, is a safe activity? What does that say about Chief McDonough and the Commissioners judgment?
Responding to a resident inquiry, Police Chief McDonough wrote, "In regard to insurance issues, the archers will be engaged in voluntary, lawful hunting activities. As such, insurance requirements are no different for these individuals than for hunters engaged in lawful hunting activities anywhere else in the Commonwealth."
ReplyDeleteThat may be accurate, but hunting in Mt. Lebanon is VERY different than hunting activities any where else in the Commonwealth. My bet is that there isn't another suburban community in all of Allegheny County or the entire state, that is as densely populated and developed as Mt. Lebanon where hunting is taking place, or that has the exposure to children walking home from school and cutting through its parks. Hunting in a community this populated and developed is absolutely crazy, and an accident waiting to happen. Even Whitetail Management Associates, the bow hunting club that provides hunting "services" in suburban communities, requires their hunters to carry a 1 million dollar liability policy.
The Pennsylvania Game Commission's (PGC) "safety zone" regulations are totally arbitrary, and have nothing to do with safety or protecting the public. State law provides a "safety zone" restricting bow hunting within 50 yards of occupied buildings. The bow hunting safety zone was changed from 150 yards to 50 yards a few years ago to open up more hunting opportunities for their hunter constituents, but remains 150 yards if in proximity to schools or day care centers. However, this 150 yard expanded safety zone in proximity to schools or day care centers doesn't apply to back yards with children playing - what's the difference? These "safety zone" regulations are totally inadequate to protect the safety of the public. The maximum range for a compound bow is 595 yards, and an extreme cam compound bow 931yards. So how can "safety zones" of 50 yards and 150 yards protect the public, especially in a densely populated and developed community like Mt. Lebanon?
If the 150 yard expanded safety zone for schools and day care centers was applicable to homes where children played in their back yards, would hunters be able to find any place to hunt in Bird Park, or some of the other small parks surrounded by homes?
If hunting in Mt. Lebanon is such a safe activity, why is Chief McDonough requiring hunters to sign a release of liability agreement, "I release Mt. Lebanon and/or Property Owner from any liability associated with me hunting on their property." Hunters aren't required to sign this type of agreement engaged in lawful hunting activities anywhere else in the Commonwealth. What is Chief McDonough and Mt. Lebanon so concerned about, and will this release agreement really hold up in court?
Since Mt. Lebanon is inviting hunters on to its property to hunt, and has developed and organized this hunting program, including hunter proficiency tests, Mt.Lebanon should require hunters to carry adequate liability insurance to protect residents and non-residents in the event of any accidents, injuries, and/or damages that might result from its hunting program, and not doing so is extremely irresponsible and negligent.
The Commission has applied for a permit to do additional culling. Gun totin' Game Commissioner Gary told commissioners that culling has to include using public property. The deer management plan also uses the word "sharpshooting" even though Fraasch, Brumfield, and Bendel are opposed to sharpshooting. The archery program is just Phase 1.
ReplyDeleteElaine
I wonder if the names of the Mt. Lebanon Municipal Hunt Club are going to be made public.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Will the MHC be added to the Administrative Code? The commissioners never voted for this board or authority.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Will the commission be OK with using municipal employees who are also Mt. Lebanon residents? Wouldn't they be biased too? The commissioners didn't want to listen to any Mt. Lebanon toxicologists or geologists when it came to toxic turf for fear they would be biased.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Just had an idea of a culling protest that I think would be effective. One of my neighors puts those lighted deer Christmas decorations in his front yard. Suddenly realized if they were laying on the ground with "blood" (aka red lights) it would make a stunning protest display.
ReplyDelete(Do a google search on Christmas Deer lights and look at the images. The ones I see hang from trees. Lebo's should be laying on the ground.)
Best if this could be done on some of the major roads...Washington Road in particular is very visible.
I've just reached out to a couple of friends who live on streets that are fairly heavily travelled.
Just a thought.
Excellent suggestion, 8:10 AM!
ReplyDeleteNow this is odd. mtl Magazine removed its deer post from Facebook. Did it have anything to do with me adding a link to Lebo Citizens?
Elaine
Or the announcement of a protest?
ReplyDeleteElaine
Responding to a resident inquiry, Police Chief McDonough wrote, "PA Game Laws require: ' . . . Any person who wounds any game or wildlife shall immediately make a reasonable effort to find and kill the game or wildlife.' This requirement is irrespective of municipal boundaries.
ReplyDeleteOK, this tracking of wounded deer and following a blood trail is difficult enough in the Pennsylvania State Game Lands with hundreds to thousands of acres of forest and woodlands, where the hunter has legal access to these large tracks of property to track and kill the deer. However, how are the hunters going to track and kill wounded deer in Mt. Lebanon and adjoining communities, when the vast majority of property is privately owned land, and it's illegal for the hunter to trespass on or use lethal weapons on this land? How can the hunter track the blood trail, and how can he kill the deer?
Effective tracking of wounded deer in Mt. Lebanon will be impossible. "Most deer can travel very fast when wounded. They can hit 35 mph [sound safe], and even if they die quickly after the shot, they can travel a long distance before collapsing. A wounded deer will not go far unless it is pushed. Therefore it’s always a good idea to sit still for at least a half-hour after the shot unless you want to make the tracking job a lot more difficult. ... Timing is very important. Tracking too soon is the No. 1 reason why mortally wounded deer travel long distances and make recovery difficult or impossible. Unless the animal drops within sight, no trail should be taken within 30 minutes. The deer you just shot will be looking at the spot where it was wounded to see what happened. It will bed down soon and try to lick or heal the wound, usually within the first 40 yards if there is good cover. Don’t turn a 40-yard trail into a 400-yard trail! Blood with green matter should dictate a minimum five-to-six-hour wait before tracking." ("After The Shot: Blood Tracking Whitetails" by Jerry Allen, 9/22/10)
Twenty- two published scientific surveys and studies indicate that the average wounding rate for bow hunting is over 50 percent, i.e. more than one out of every two deer shot is never retrieved. These wounded deer will be in residents yards, and running out into the roads causing accidents.
This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I can just picture these bow hunters running and driving around on Mt. Lebanon's roads in their camo outfits with lethal weapons in hand, trying to track wounded deer from the roads at 3 p.m. when all the kids are walking home from school, and to what end? They can't trespass on a residents private property to track the blood trail or kill the deer. Is it just me, or does this entire hunting program seem like a totally irresponsible and harebrained plan? Did anyone think this through - at all?
9:07 AM, so upsetting!
ReplyDeleteI made a pdf of the mtl Mag FB post concerning deer, even though it has been removed from their page.
Elaine
If I see anyone armed with any lethal weapon trespassing on my private property, I will invoke a "castle doctrine" policy and react accordingly. I don't give a damn who it is or whether a hunter allegedly has the PA "right" to pursue wounded game on private property. To me that will be criminal trespassing.
ReplyDeleteElaine 7:07 am - If Commissioners Fraasch, Brumfield, and Bendel opposed bait and shoot culling (shooters with high powered rifles), by what authority did Municipal Manager Steve Feller include bait and shoot culling on the PGC permit request?
ReplyDeleteThe release will only indemnify Mt. Lebanon. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the release will be meaningless if one of the hunters causes some harm to another human, private property, domestic animal or a combination of the three. So if I'm a municipal employee about to embark on this exercise in pure folly, I'm thinking twice about it. All it takes is one bad shot. Or, if close enough, one perfect shot that goes through the animal and ends up in the chest of a kid cutting through the park or goes through someone's kitchen window. Question to the potential hunters--is it worth being held financially liable for this? You can traipse around the abundant woods in PA and not worry about missing. But in a neighborhood? How awful would you feel if you injured or killed one of your friend's children? I just don't think it's worth the potential mishap.
ReplyDeleteThis whole idea is just stupid. The money set aside for this nonsense should go toward something worthwhile like fixing sidewalks, buying the police another dog, more turnout gear for the FD or planting more trees somewhere to offset the oxygen depletion from the turf.
1:10 PM, I have no idea. I emailed the commissioners when the plan was first available and never heard back from anyone. I may have shared the email here.
ReplyDelete1:56 PM, originally, there were to be six locations, providing there was enough interest from the employees. It was reduced to four locations. I have not been able to find out why Iroquois Park and the Conservation District (Connor and Terrace) were removed. Was it for safety reasons or lack of interest? Either way, it was good news to me.
Elaine
I updated this post with maps of the killing fields. Mt. Lebanon added 50 yard buffer lines to the maps. Keep in mind, the Lindendale deer traveled 100 yards before it bled to death from a bullet during the last cull.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Are there certain times of day that the archery/hunting will occur? For example, even if the community is alerted that there is a Bird Park archery event going on, there is no buffer between the hunting zone and the sidewalk that is adjacent to the park on Beadling. So if a child leaves Markham, for example, after school, s/he will be walking right next to the archery zone.
ReplyDeleteTwo of the deer fields are in Brumfield's Ward. None are in Kristen's Ward. Hmmm . . . .
ReplyDelete2:34 PM, yes, your child will be walking next to the killing fields during archery hours which are Monday through Saturday half hour before sunrise and half hour after sunset. Sickening, isn't it? Hoover is near Robb Hollow. This also affects the children at Myrtle Avenue School. That is why I am so disappointed in Timmy, once again. But in unapproved comments, I am the one who gets scolded for showing no respect toward the superintendent. This community is really f-ed up.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Information concerning the protest will be released in the next day or so. I will announce it here. Stay tuned.
ReplyDeleteElaine
I sent this email to Mr. Steinhauer last week asking about the email he sent out:
ReplyDelete“As the superintendent whose job it is to protect the welfare and wellbeing of the school students in this community, I would think that you would take much more of a proactive approach regarding this program in doing much, much more to properly communicate to students and their parents of what steps you would consider to keep the students safe.
Does the email you sent out answer the following:
1) Will the parks be opened or closed?
2) Will the golf course be opened or closed?
3) What should parents communicate to their kids if they come across someone carrying hunting equipment (bows and arrows)?
4) What to expect if a wild animal crosses their path with an arrow stuck in its side?
5) What information parents may want to communicate to their kids who walk to and from school?
6) Kristen Linfante said the kids will be seeing bow hunters in the trees as they walk to and from school? Shouldn’t the kids be informed of this?
7) Dave Brumfield said it may be possible for kids to see dead deer with arrows sticking out of them? Should we prepare our kids for this?
Much of what I am asking you will not find on the municipal website.
Do all Mt. Lebanon School District parents have email?
Shouldn’t you be doing more??“
His reply was: “Please be assured that the School District is taking all appropriate actions regarding our students.”
Nick M.
I feel better now, Nick. How about you?
ReplyDeleteElaine
For the Lebo Citizen readers who are not familiar with the location of Markham Elementary School, here is the municipal map showing its proximity to Bird Park.
ReplyDeleteElaine
I recommend that instead of his monthly pizza lunches, the Super host some venison chili lunches with the kids.
ReplyDeleteHe might actually learn something!
Keep in mind that the four commissioners in favor of people witnessing a deer slaughter are also the same four who think nothing of letting children play on toxic rubber tire crumbs. Noticing a trend here?
ReplyDeleteElaine
With the schools closed until Jan. 2nd, it is a good bet that should we get a good snow during the break many MTL kids will make their way to the sledding hill on hole No. 7.
ReplyDeleteOften they walk across the course to get there.
Real rocket science scheduling a cull on the course during that time period!
4:18 PM, I know that Scott Twp. lists sled riding at the golf course in their other communities' news section. It isn't just MTL kids who sled ride there. Also, Castle Shannon kids sled ride at the golf course.
ReplyDeleteIf there is no snow, there will be golfers on the course.
Yeah, brilliant.
Elaine
It was only a matter of time before the hunters started to get a little disgruntled.
ReplyDeletefavoritism in Mt lebanon -unbelievable
Elaine
http://m.academy.com/shop/Product_10151_10051_937455_-1__true?N=20001+295120340
ReplyDeleteAs a public service you may want to send out a Lebo [Citizens] Alert that Orange Hunting Vest can be had for $5.99 from the above link.
I hear it's the hot fashion apparel this winter for MTL residents young and old!
People are laughing at us again. This IS pretty funny. From the hunters' blog:
ReplyDelete"It looks like not all of the employees aren't going to make it back to work:
Originally Posted By: cspot
By John Hayes / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
In a written statement, Mt. Lebanon police chief Coleman McDonough said the program’s goal is a “safe, natural and human harvest of deer in order to reduce the deer population in Mt. Lebanon.”
They are looking for a "human harvest"
Elaine
Here is the PG article which mentions the human harvest. Outdoors notebook: Suburb takes aim at deer problem
ReplyDelete"In a written statement, Mt. Lebanon police chief Coleman McDonough said the program’s goal is a 'safe, natural and human harvest of deer in order to reduce the deer population in Mt. Lebanon.'”
Elaine
There are no secrets anymore about the crazy mismanagement of Mt Lebanon when even the blogging hunters are talking about "legal double-talk" and fairness.
ReplyDeleteIf every group that felt Mt Lebanon was egregiously unfair got together.... what would we have?
One error in the PG article. It states, "The program, however, does not require archers to take an antlerless deer before shooting a buck."
ReplyDeleteThe wording in the rules and regulations state otherwise, "Before an archer can harvest an antlered deer, he/she must harvest at least one antlerless deer."
Nick M.
Well, this is another fine mess.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Elaine, December 21, 2014 at 7:22 PM
ReplyDeleteGary Fujak, the Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC) representative, uses John Hayes, the Post-Gazette's pro-hunting outdoors columnist, as a mouthpiece to put pressure on local communities to open up their parks and property to hunters. These kinds of biased Post-Gazette articles put pressure on local commission and council members to cave to the PGC's biased agenda. Gary Fujak and John Hayes have been trying to promote hunting in Mt. Lebanon and most other suburban communities for years, and the residents in most of these communities have overwhelmingly rejected their efforts. Unfortunately, when people read the misinformation in these biased articles, they believe them, because they don't know they are biased articles. Commissioners feel pressure too - they don't even recognize the biased agenda of the PGC, and how it uses the Post-Gazette to further its agenda.
The PGC doesn't share the same priorities as the Commission, i.e. Mt. Lebanon resident safety. The PGC is funded by hunting licenses and it promotes hunting in suburban communities, because their hunter constituents want more local and easy hunting opportunities, if you can call sitting in a local park or someone's back yard killing tame deer "hunting".
Finding trophy bucks (nice racks) in the Pennsylvania State Game Lands isn't easy anymore. The bucks don't live long enough to grow trophy racks. Most deer killed every year are yearlings. Few deer live to be 2 or 3 yrs old.
Gary Alt, the prior director of the PGC's deer management section, feared for his life and had to wear a bullet proof vest, because he tried to implement an antler restriction deer mgt program (see article next post). Antler restrictions would prevent hunters from killing younger bucks, which would give them an opportunity to mature into trophy bucks. Alt was also trying to fix the imbalance of male/ female deer sex ratio, and lowering the number of deer to a level more compatible with the amount of available habitat. The PGC had totally mismanaged the Pa deer population.
The "hunters" know that there are some nice trophy bucks that have been protected in suburban communities, and they want to get access to kill these trophy bucks to put their heads on their walls.
As far as the PGC goes, more hunting = job security.
The Pa Game Commission Bias and Conflit of Interest (Part 1)
ReplyDeleteAlthough the The Pa Game Commission (PGC) portrays itself as a wildlife “conservation” organization whose mission is to manage wildlife for the benefit of all Pennsylvanians, this portrayal is extremely misleading. The PGC is a game commission managing a statewide recreational hunting business serving its hunting constituents (only 5-6% of PA’s population and declining fast, and likely less than 1% of Mt. Lebanon residents). The PGC is funded by hunting license fees, game land timber sales, and Federal funding under the Pittman-Roberston Act (PRA). The Federal funds are distributed based upon each state’s land area and its number of hunting licenses sold.
“That is a key reason ‘scientific herd management’ through hunting is the agencies’ bread and butter. They manage herds not to prevent problems in residential areas, but to serve themselves and their hunter constituents. Promoting deer kills also serves wildlife agencies’ interests by masking the agencies’ own responsibility for deer population growth.” (White-Tailed Deer: The Phantom Menace, David Cantor, 1999.)
"Deer are [artificially] managed on a Maximum Sustained Yield (M.S.Y.) principle to produce surpluses for hunter recreation. One M.S.Y. method is to kill excesses of bucks in order to alter the natural 1 to 1 male/female sex ratio, leaving 5 to 15 females for each male. This maximizes fawn production. Another M.S.Y. method is habitat manipulation. For example, the Wildlife Division of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) in Michigan increased the deer herd from 400,000 to one million by clear cutting 1.3 million acres of state forest to create deer browse. According to officials, this was done "because a forest managed by nature cannot produce a fraction of the deer needed by half a million hunters." (The American Hunting Myth, Ron Baker, 1985)
The PGC spends more than 40% of its $80 million budget on wildlife habitat improvements for game species. The state’s deer are intentionally managed for “maximum sustained yield” to produce more targets for their hunting constituents. Contrast this with the fact that only 2.87% of their budget is directed toward non-game species, and their priorities become very clear.
The Pa Game Commission Bias and Conflit of Interest (Part 2)
ReplyDelete"In an interview a few years ago, Gary Alt described how he felt when he took the job as director of the PGC's deer management section. He looked at the history of deer mgt in the state and saw that every biologist who had ever suggested lowering the number of deer to a level more compatible with the amount of available habitat had been fired, transferred or quit. On the verge of offering similar advice of his own ... 'I thought, My God, I'm going to get killed.' ...When Alt was traveling the state doing lectures for sportsmen, things were so hot that he was advised to wear a bulletproof vest and have an escape route planned for any hall he entered." This article in the Pittsburgh Tribune Review reveals what's behind the curtain, in their own words. http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/regional/s_285817.html#axzz3FmRMSdyE
This PGC's artificial propagation of the deer population and hunting are responsible for a majority of car-deer collisions, related injuries, and deaths across the state.
Local scenarios typically follow the same pattern. A few residents complain about deer eating their tulips. The local commissioners, unsure of what to do, contact the PGC for help. The PGC's confirms this growing deer population phenomena, and recommends that the local township rescind its ban on the use of lethal weapons and hunting, and allow hunting, or sponsor a hunting program. Conveniently, the PGC fails to own any responsibility for the increase of the deer population. Even more conveniently, the PGC manages to be paid both to ”create” the problem and again to “solve” it. However, hunting doesn't reduce deer populations, but actually triggers an increase in the population (reproduction rebound), and causes an increase in car-deer collisions. Hunting isn't a solution to a "problem", but a commitment to a permanent problem.
The problem is that neither the Commission or the public understands this biased agenda, and typically look to the PGC as the "experts", and outsources its decision making to an agency so clearly motivated by its own biased agenda and conflicts of interest.
Good find, Elaine. Yeah sure, the volunteers are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.
ReplyDeleteTo Nick M- try and find the penalty if an archer takes an antlered deer first.
It's sort of like the one imposed if the school district exceeds the HS project $$$ limits... Nothing.
Gun Totin' Gary barged his way into the discussion session. Merlin Benner was on the commission discussion session agenda, but was dominated by GTG. I would be willing to bet that Kristen invited GTG, since she had no problem with him taking over the discussion.
ReplyDeleteWill the Mt. Lebanon Archery Club be permitted to hunt without licenses since the anterless deer licenses are sold out?
Elaine
Police Chief McDonough wrote, "In regard to insurance issues, the archers will be engaged in voluntary, lawful hunting activities. As such, insurance requirements are no different for these individuals than for hunters engaged in lawful hunting activities anywhere else in the Commonwealth."
ReplyDeleteTo answer your question Elaine @ 6:57, I don't think so.
2:34 PM, I gave you the wrong information at 2:59 PM. The Municipal website lists the hours to be:
ReplyDelete"The municipal program, designed to reduce the deer herd and deer-vehicular crashes, will take place December 26-Jan 24 in Bird , McNeilly and Robb Hollow parks and at the golf course. View the rules and regulations, the way archers will be selected, tested, certified and supervised, and see maps of the areas in which hunting will take place from one hour before sunrise until one hour after sunset. You can follow the link to the Deer Management Status Report and review the "Municipal Archery Program" documents."
Evidently, it has been changed to one hour before and after, not thirty minutes before and after.
Elaine
Parents at Hoover and Markham, have your kids been given "the talk" yet by school district staff? Not THAT talk, but the one about avoiding arrows and injured and/or dead deer. Timmy says “that the School District is taking all appropriate actions regarding our students.” I wonder what those "appropriate actions" are.
ReplyDeleteElaine
I wonder how many of the nine school board directors are concerned with this nightmare. I seem to remember Mary Birks signing the petition to kill deer. I know that former SB president Posti did.
ReplyDeleteHow many from the PTA contacted the commission about this?
Just keep silent, Folks, while your school board directors, commissioners, manager, and superintendent continue to put your kids in harm's way. I have been traumatized by killing next to my house. Do you want the same for your children?
Elaine