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| Robb Hollow - one entrance |
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| Robb Hollow - one entrance |
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| Connor Road: black plastic in place; two entrances. |
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| Connor Road: black plastic in place; two entrances. |
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| Connor Road: black plastic in place; two entrances. |
Deed for McNeilly Park, situated in the Municipality of Mt. Lebanon and Baldwin Township.
New baiting station located in the woods at end of Thornwood Drive, between Kossman property and the golf course.
GPS Coordinates
Here are GPS coordinates:
Thornycroft: 40.37116667°N, -080.02895°W
https://www.google.com/maps/search/40.37116667N,+80.02895W/@40.3711667,-80.02895,200m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1
McNeilly:
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990 ft. is not 1000 ft.
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Connor: 40.35705°N, 080.04265°W
https://www.google.com/maps/place/40%C2%B021'25.4%22N+80%C2%B002'33.5%22W/@40.35705,-80.04265,798m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
Photos of Connor Road deer at the corral
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| Deer on left. Corral on right. |
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| Compare size of deer on left to corral on right. Corral is larger than expected. |
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| Deer on right. Corral on left. |
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| Deer on left. Corral on right. |
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| Very tame young buck with corral behind him. Great picture for mtl Magazine. |
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| Heading toward the corral |
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| Deer eating in the corral |
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| Deer eating in the corral |
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| View of corral looking down from Connor Road |
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| Inner view of feeder on Connor Road |
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| Inner view of wall with branches holding down plastic |
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| Two openings at Connor Road |
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| Spotted at one of the corrals |
This is like living in a slow motion horror film. Except it's not a film. It's real.
ReplyDeleteBe aware that there are likely many cameras trained on the bait site and access to same. Be careful not to run afoul of park hours and signs, which will doubtlessly be a primary focus of the corn police.
ReplyDeleteGreat pix though! If one lived within say 500 to 1000 yards of such a site, one would be very concerned.
If one also happened to reside in an adjacent community, and was within ricochet range of one of these sites, one might want to be in touch with that community's leaders and demand action.
There's an interesting story over in Indiana. Seems a council hired one of the same experts as Mt Lebanon brought in. They overrode citizens objections and a mayors veto of their planned deer kill.
Seems there was enough other food around, that the deer avoided similar feeders as these, and the hunt was canceled.
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/bloomington-parks-department-cancels-griffy-lake-deer-cull-77869/
Food for thought ;)
Didn't they promise to notify residents living in close proximatey to the corrals?
ReplyDelete11:17 correction- proximity
ReplyDelete"Except in the southeast Special Regulations Areas, it is unlawful to hunt in or around any area where artificial or natural bait, food, hay, grain, fruit, nuts, salt, chemicals or minerals, including their residues, are used, or have been used within the past 30 days, as an enticement to lure game or wildlife regardless of the type or quantity. Hunters are responsible for ensuring that the hunting area has not been baited before they begin hunting. They should physically inspect the area and question landowners, guides and caretakers. This section does not pertain to hunting near areas where accepted farming or habitat management practices are taking place (example: hunting near food plots on game lands is legal)." (pg 18) See page 53 for baiting permit information in the southeast Special Regulations Areas."
ReplyDeleteThe hired guns got a pass on this (and other laws)
Sooooo, imagine you might want to help deer on your own property. Not baiting, because you are not hunting. Not Elk or Moose, cause that's a no-no. Just deer. What do they like?
http://www.bowsite.com/db/forums/thread.cfm?forum=4&threadid=428473&MESSAGES=30&FF=4
Better still, give them some woody browse:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7205.html
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7195.html
The rifle typically used in these deer killing programs is the .223 caliber bolt-action rifle with 55-grain bullets. The maximum range of this ammunition is 2.20 miles.
ReplyDeleteI've heard that some vendors are using the AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, a civilian version of the M16 military rifle. These are magazine fed with 30 bullets. The AR-15 would likely also use the 55-grain bullets, and have the same 2.20 mile maximum range.
I don't know what the velocity of the bullet would be at 2.20 miles, but even at that distance if you got hit in the head, it could be lethal. The closer you are the more deadly the impact would be.
These corrals look really small. I thought they said that they were going to have a diameter of 30 feet.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone seen any raised shooting platforms yet?
The Robb Hollow corrals look larger.
ReplyDeleteWhy the black plastic on the Connor Road, but not the Robb Hollow?
I'm wondering if the platform and killing method (distance) will be different at these two locations.
I wish we could have got a humane agent or someone approved to film this capture and slaughter.
ReplyDeleteAny chance that we can RTK the video from the cameras on the corrals?
I don't understand how this killing is going to be done.
ReplyDeleteWith the smaller corrals at Conner Rd, I guess they will build platforms right next to the corrals, and try to shoot the deer at close range. However, once they climb up on those platforms the deer are going to get spooked and start slamming into the sides of the corrals, and so how will they get a brain shot?
My guess is that at the larger corrals in Robb Hollow that they won't be shooting at close range as has been told to everyone. They will likely shoot the deer from a distance. I just don't see how they can build the platforms next to the open corrals, and walk up and climb these platforms to shoot the deer. The deer aren't going to stand there waiting for them to be shot. As soon as they seem them approach from a distance, they will start bouncing off the corral fences, and again it will be near impossible to get a brain shot.
As soon as those corral trap doors shut and lock the deer will panic and start bouncing off the corral fence, and like Laura Simon, HSUS' wildlife biologist, said they will break their necks and legs. Everyone has seen the video of the panicked deer in the clover trap video. That's what's going to happen here.
Funny, I don't see any utility markings in those areas. In PA, you must call 8-1-1 . State law requires a three business day notice. It doesn't matter how deep you dig. PA 811 FAQ
ReplyDeleteIf the commissioners are having Mt. Lebanon's finest on corn patrol, I guess that makes it alright.
Elaine
The "elevated platforms" are nothing more than step ladders.
ReplyDelete11:44 Please stop with the scare tactics. This isn't about guns. This is about government run amok. Try to focus on the issue at hand.
ReplyDeleteShould we let Baldwin know we are killing deer on their property? Scott Township didn't like that so much.
ReplyDeletehttp://baldwintownship.com/government.html
Emails are also available on the website above but you have to click on the names.
I have decided to bouycot all businesses in Mt Lebanon who have not stood up against this deer cull. To stay silent is a message of permission for the deer cull to proceed. Afterall, businesses bring in a significant amount of Mt Lebanon tax revenue paying for this cull. Ban those businesses not condemning the deer cull!
ReplyDelete'If we wash our hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless we side with the powerful - we don't remain neutral." -Banksy
ReplyDeleteTo me it feels like a lot of this community has sided with the powerful. A strong, caring community cannot be sustained by indifference
This really breaks my heart more and more each day. Seeing these photos - I just cannot believe it, how can this be happening? How can ANYONE think this is the solution, after all the scientific proof that this method does not work, let alone how barbaric it is. After the community stepped forward, pleading to make this stop, one even offering $1,000 towards sterilization, another offering to do the procedures herself. Even after many said they would volunteer to help in anyway they could to make this stop. Even after it's been proven that deer related accidents in Mt. Lebo are of only 2%. Even after all the local food banks in the area said they would not accept any of the meat from this cull. Even after all of this our words, our feelings, our efforts have no value when it comes to those in power and the control they have over all of us. What will be next?
Yep 9:11. I wonder if 11:44 would be happier if the used Colt 1911s with the .45 cal ACP round. It only has a velocity of 950ft/sec and carries a relatively short distance.
ReplyDeleteWho cares what bullet they use. They are in the name of public safety, feeding deer (something the commissioners wrote an ordinance preventing people from doing) to attract deer right next to roads - increasing chances that someone will strike a deer.
I don't see why they don't load the salt trucks with corn (they hardly use them for snow any more) spread the stuff all over our streets and when the deer come let every blood-thirsty deer-hater blast away.
The corn patrol dept. Can take a break at Dunkin Donuts for awhile, since they have no interest in investigating private hunts.
9:11 am. This is about govt run amok but also safety. Remember the 1000 ft from schools? This blog, thinking about safety, revealed that restriction to the govt run amok.
ReplyDeleteThis is an important notice from LeboALERT.
ReplyDeleteGas line work continues today on Cedar Blvd at Beadling. Expect lane closures and delays throughout the day.
Brilliant! With all the construction activity and slower traffic you can be sure all the deer are heading to Cedar/Robb Hollow to gawk at the activity. Bet they appreciate the commissioners putting out a buffet so they don't have to go home for lunch.
9:55 am The bullets do matter but its just too sick to think or write about right now.
ReplyDeleteOdd, the commissioner moan that people don't get involved, that commission meetings aren't attended.
ReplyDeleteThen when the meetings are packed and numerous constituents speak up, what do they do?
Give them the finger and go ahead with their plans like no one was there.
I keep seeing the same comment about the AR-15, 30 round magazines and 2-mile range of the round.
ReplyDeleteFirst, to vilify the most popular rifle in the country because of the deer fiasco is dishonest and not at all helpful. Does it matter what rifle they use?
Second, the mention of magazines is pointless. Yes, the AR uses magazines that hold multiple rounds. And? A deer being shot in the head is going to be just as dead whether the bullet(s) is/are from an AR, AK, .22, Desert Eagle or black powder musket. If we had a real nut job involved, they could kill a deer with a sledgehammer or cinder block.
Regarding the velocity and maximum range, it doesnt matter. The plan is to fire at close range. When (not if) a round goes astray or goes through the animal and ricochets, the velocity and range will be greatly diminished. I have publicly stated my opposition to using rifles in a dense suburban area. So we are in agreement there. But please try to be accurate and sensible, unlike the people who approved this. One of my concerns is this issue morphing into a discussion on firearms as opposed to an abusive and aimless municipal government body acting with wanton disregard for the people they purport to serve. For now, I am focused on the big picture, which is altering our current course. If you want to have the "gun" debate, I am happy to do so another time.
Am I crazy or do those corrals look a little flimsy? As part of the $75,000 I envisioned something a bit sturdier. And weren't they supposed to have "gates that would close remotely" when someone saw deer via the videocamera? These don't seem very high tech. Just further indicates to me that they are making this up as they go along. What could possibly go wrong?
ReplyDeleteQuestion:
ReplyDeleteLet's say on the last day of March they've killed 147 deer and they have 6 deer corralled in Cochran site, 4 at Robb Hollow, 3 at McNeilly and some number at the other locations.
Will they shoot three at Conner as the other three watch? Or shoot one at three locations and let the others run free?
Remember the contract specifies a maximum spend of $75,000. Unfortunately, the commissioners have a nasty habit of spending more money than they originally allocated!
Can you say turf, community pool?
The gates come next, after they have enough deer going in and out of the corrals regularly.
ReplyDeleteElaine
11:30 Correction-
ReplyDeleteNot Cochran... Conner
The discussion on firearms used and caliber does matter, and compliments the concerns ethical sportsmen, animal lovers and ordinary citizens have over this hare-brained plan by the commissioners and for-profit deer killing gypsies.
ReplyDeleteFirst, the AR-15 is the semi-automatic, civilian variant of the military M-16, now M-4 fully automatic .223/5.56mm caliber rifle. It is a popular and potentially very accurate firearm. It is also illegal for use on deer in Pennsylvania, as are all semi-autos. If they are using AR's, they are breaking another law.
Magazines for the AR typically carry 10,20 or 30 rounds. There are a few higher capacity mags available of 40, 60 and 100 rounds. Since these "expert marksmen" are planning precision head shots, at night, on 6 or more panicked deer bashing and flailing around a corral, they may need more.
Multiply even 2 or 3 shots per times 150 deer and you have much much greater chance for misses and ricochets.
The effective fatal to human range for the AR-15/M4 platform is 500 meters. Draw a 500 meter (1640 ft) circle around the location of each corral and that's your potential for a "tragic accident".
Going out another 1000 meters you have wounding potential. Remember the baby that was blinded by one hunters stray bullet? And these "experts" will be firing hundreds?
Present these risks to the commissioners. If they accept them and continue, they are legally on the hook for it.
If a different rifle and bullet is being used, it should be disclosed prior to ANY use if same. Residents have a right to know what sort of incoming fire to expect. Lawful firearms owners hate to see their image tarnished by ill-conceived schemes like this.
Lastly, search for videos on "deer head shot" they are not for the faint of heart. Show the commissioners what they are paying for.
These "experts" are aiming for a very small area of a skull, at night. Low angle shots on hard surfaces are ideal for ricochets.
PS. People claim that CWD (chronic wasting disease) is the reason deer cannot be relocated. CWD is transmitted by prions, contained in the brain, spine, eyes, lymph system. These are never eaten. The "experts" will be using head shots that will scatter potentially prion-rich brain matter all over the kill zone. Prions remain in the soil. They are ONLY destroyed by temperatures in excess of 600C. So after the slaughter, your dog may be happily slurping up prion-rich brain matter while in these areas.
Does the MTL government have a prion-remediation plan?
Please feel free to copy and redistribute any of these comments. No attribution needed. I am sickened by the slaughter of baited, caged deer. This is just wrong. Gun owners hate this nonsense as much as anyone else.
Another baiting station has been discovered. At 12:30 PM today, a resident had a conversation with Gene Huntington, from Wildlife Specialists. Huntington was refilling a bait station. Not authorized to do the field work, he claimed that he was not in a corral. He was parked at the end of Thornycroft. I think that may be part of the golf course. Is that within 1,000 ft. of Howe School? Pictures will follow.
ReplyDeleteATTN THORNYCROFT RESIDENTS! They are in your back yards!!!
Elaine
Doe are pregnant in March, followed by calving in late Spring. Will the experts expect compensation for terminating the unborn fawns in the deer slaughter? It would seem appropriate that the commissioners should be present for the deer slaughter to witness what they approved. Any good researcher has a "hands-on" approach to an experiment. And, after all, since this has not been conducted with deer, it is an experiment, no matter how misguided.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Google maps the distance from Howes main entrance to the intersection of Thornycroft and Thornwood is .2 mile or 1,056 feet.
ReplyDeleteBut if you look at the edge of the Howe school grounds butting the backyards of Crystal properties the distance is at least half that.
Depending on the location of the corral it's probably in the school safety zone.
So what if a corral is within 1,000 feet of a school gun free zone, who's going to enforce the restriction-- the corn police?
ReplyDelete1:16. Ask the commissioners if fawns from killed pregnant doe will be saved. There is precedence:
ReplyDeletewww.youtube.com/watch?v=RfgOI8IsGeU
Has anyone determined if the kills are to be filmed? Has anyone submitted a request to film to ensure that the contractors are in fact fulfilling their part? How is anyone to know they are not just turning in roadkill? Will the killed deer ALL be tested for CWD? Will test results be available and when?
@1:33. Notify school administration. The corn police can blow off peons. Get the Superintendent and school board worried about covering their own behinds and it will be a different matter.
ReplyDelete"Does the MTL government have a prion-remediation plan" --- I have to say my appetite has been way down since this deer thing started this month.
ReplyDeleteSomebody please get the GPS coordinates on the Howe bait station so we can Google Earth the distance between the station and the school grounds asap.
Then, the police won't help, but the media will when we they have the picture.
Speaking of film, is there any truth to the rumor that certain MTL moms are mounting a drive to have Disney's movie "Bambi" removed from the Library of Congress archives?
ReplyDelete2:22 PM, I am working on it. I will post them as soon as they are sent to me.
ReplyDeleteElaine
I don't have that GPS capability, but you'd also need the coordinates from the edge of the Howe field.
ReplyDeleteThere is a public drive up to it from Crystal.
If it proves to be in the school zone we need to alert Murphy, the FBI and the press as a Federal law is being violated.
2:22. Maybe one of the computer savvy kids can put this on a Google map. Make it easy for everyone to see where this circus is happening.
ReplyDeleteBenner need his corrals close to roads, try lugging 6 or more 150lb dead weight objects in through the snow. Then having to clean up and blood and stuff.
ReplyDeleteRemember two guys are suppose to be handling this.
A Lebo Citizens reader sent me this:
ReplyDelete"There is a path that runs between Shop & Save and Thornwood. The feeder sits about 60 feet off the path towards the golf course. My best guess, looking at Google Earth, is that it is evenly spaced between Howe and Myrtle (about 1300 ft from each).
Interesting that there are none of the yellow signs posted at the beginning of the path. - Just the more discrete white signs surrounding the feeder."
This is f-ing nuts. We have residents canvassing the parks and walking paths, looking for baiting stations, so that we can alert our kids.
Elaine
If Gene Huntington is doing field work, this is a violation of the conditions from the permit. This should be reported immediately.
ReplyDeleteYep, Elaine it is nuts! The PIO has us playing "Where's Benner" with deadly kill zones all in the name of public safety.
ReplyDeleteThought they were suppose to tell us where the corrals are.
So much for open and transparent governing AND PUBLIC SAFETY.
if they're are luring deer to these feed stations, drivers need to know where deer may be crossing roads to get to them!
So smart, we'll attract deer to certain areas so you'll have a bigger chance of running into one! AND WE WON'T ALERT YOU TO THE DANGER!!! Brilliant, just brilliant!
Just an FYI, Mr. Benner. I see you looking. You know every move we are making, but by the same token, we are watching every move you are making. Just sayin'.
ReplyDeleteElaine Gillen
The fencing just showed up at McNeilly about 4:30. The corrals are going up.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Benner has an unfair advantage with US AND THE DEER!
ReplyDeleteThe more they see, the more they have to respond to.
ReplyDeleteA summary of all the questions and concerns on this blog, presented to the commissioners in front of everyone, or sent certified, would take away any "we didn't consider that" excuses. Anything happens and it's lawsuit city. Anyone gets hurt and it's on them.
Put them on the hot seat. They earned it.
Please check the GPS coordinates that were sent to me. There are two baiting stations in McNeilly. Someone tell me how this is helping to solve Mt. Lebanon's deer "problem."
ReplyDeleteElaine
Good Point,, they dont care about lebo's deer problems.. all they care about is killing the # of deer in the contract and headin back to Tionesta..and the easiest kills on waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down on McNeilly
ReplyDeleteBoy did we get hacked here in MT.Lebanon!!
hey you guys us city of pgh.people want to help you
ReplyDeleteRegards,
janet dolin |
jdolin@verizon.net
Twins Hills on the border with Scott
ReplyDeleteMcNeilly on the Border with Baldwin
Connor on the border with Bethel
Robb Hollow on the border with USC
Only one corral in Central Lebo
Who's deer are we culling?
Don't worry, the deer know not to cross the borders- we r only looking for Lebo deer.
ReplyDeleteSo much for Susan Morgans alerting properties adjacent to killing fields. The cashier at the Citco station had no idea that there will be shooting right behind the store.
ReplyDeleteNice job, Susan.
Have residents been notified?
Elaine
The Thornycroft site is approximately 1257 ft from Howe and 1157 from Myrtle Elementary.
ReplyDeleteClose enough to confirm we are dealing with real jerks.
This is classic! I just came from Kelly Fraasch's blog. Prokill people are writing to the commissioners and thanking them for moving forward with the deer cull. They are seeing a difference. Kelly said, as of yet, that no deer have been killed.
ReplyDeleteUpdate on Deer
"First, we have received a handful of messages sharing appreciation for thinning the herd and that residents are already feeling safer from the municipality killing the deer.
I am not saying this in any other way, but matter of fact, we haven’t killed any deer yet.
This program has begun baiting but no deer have been killed. If anything you may see more deer than usual now with the food being made available in some areas."
Elaine
February 27, 2015 at 6:21 PM
ReplyDeleteI was thinking exactly what you posted. All of these feeding stations and corral killing traps are set up on Mt. Lebanon's borders. Who's deer are we killing?
In addition, a lot of the deer counted on these aerial surveys are in the bordering communities, but are counted as Mt. Lebanon deer. That's why the deer numbers were so exaggerated.
Most of these deer travel into Mt. Lebanon because it's a big salad bar, with 30+ flower islands, and the commissionettes planting their tulips and hostas.
Until Mt. Lebanon makes an effort to plant deer resistent flowers in their flower islands, and reaches out to residents and hold seminars teaching them how they can have beautiful flowers and landscapes by planting deer resistant flowers and plants, we will continue to put Lebo residents at risk with rifles killing Scott, Bethel, USC, and Baldwin deer with Lebo tax dollars.
BTW, Benner doesn't care whose deer he kills, he's just looking for a head count of $500 each. I don't think the Commissioner care either. They just want to kill some deer.
900' feet is not 1,000 feet. One bait station at McNeilly Park is 900' away from Seton LaSalle. See the map under the GPS Coordinates.
ReplyDeleteElaine
These are restrictions by PA CODE for individuals who operate with a Nuisance Wildlife Control Operator license.
ReplyDeleteNote what the PA CODE (§ 147.726) states an "operator" -- as in BRIAN BENNER -- must do to dispose of a carcass:
(h) Carcasses shall be disposed of by incineration or in an approved landfill in a manner consistent with the solid waste laws of the Commonwealth. The taking of any white-tailed deer shall be reported within 24 hours and turned over to the district wildlife conservation officer, unless alternative arrangements are accepted by the district wildlife conservation officer.
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter147/subchapTtoc.html
So my take from this is....
The deer are going to a landfill.
§ 147.722. Definitions.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to the definitions contained in the act and § 131.2 (relating to definitions), the following words and terms, when used in this subchapter, have the following meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:
Agent—A holder of a valid Nuisance Wildlife Control Operator Permit or a legitimate employee.
Humane manner—When dispatching an animal, death shall be induced as quickly and painlessly as possible by any of the methods in § 147.727 (relating to humane methods).
Here are the humane methods for big game:
§ 147.727. Humane methods.
Animals shall be dispatched using the following methods:
....
(3) Big game shall be dispatched through the use of: barbiturates, gunshot, penetrating captive bolt or chloral hydrate.
How would holding deer in a pen and then shooting them in front of each qualify for:
"death shall be induced as quickly and painlessly"
http://www.timesonline.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/deer-harvest-plan-is-insult-to-hunters/article_8d5bb82e-bc3d-11e4-b6d2-dbd39704016e.html#.VPDbBh3zIGY.facebook
ReplyDeleteI am a Pennsylvania hunter and have been for over 50 years. When I saw on TV what Mt. Lebanon wanted to do about the deer, I was really upset. I thought to myself, there is no way the Pennsylvania Game Commission will allow this.
Boy, was I wrong. They did and that is a slap in the face to every hunter in Pennsylvania.
I am not allowed to bait and shoot deer, and what they are doing is wrong. I know the Game Commission can approve such plans, but I need a license to hunt and I would not even want to bait the deer to harvest them. If they think when these deer are trapped that they are just going to stand there while whoever is going to shoot them, they are highly mistaken. They will be bouncing off the cage and trying to get out.
This is Pennsylvania. Learn to live with the deer or move out. Shame on the Game Commission for allowing this and for everyone involved in this plan.
Bob Litterini
Moon Township
That is priceless, people thanking the commissioners and feeling safer even they've yet to kill a deer.
ReplyDeleteI guess H. L. Mencken was right when he said “No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”
The municipality makes it looks like deer incidents are on the rise and present "estimates" that there are hundreds - no thousands of deer - in Lebo and people feel threaten by docile deer.
They announce a cull, put up a few corrals (w/o gates) and those same residents feel safer already!
Amazing how easy it is to manipulate idiots.
10:23 the act doesn't say quickly and painlessly for whom. Maybe they're talking about for the shooter.
ReplyDeletehttp://w.truty.org/PDFs/Media/BERNAYS-ManipulatingPublicOpinion.pdf
ReplyDelete10:41. Nice try. The code, read in full, makes it very clear that a humane dispatch benefits the animal, not the profit making private business employee.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pabulletin.com/secure/data/vol31/31-44/1962.html
It was sarcasm 11:34, sarcasm.
ReplyDeleteThe PAGC is a state affiliated commonwealth agency within Pennsylvania's executive branch. Thus, the same restrictions on PA's executive branch pertaining to "adverse pecuniary interest" apply to the PAGC.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pacode.com/secure/data/007/chapter7/s7.151.html
The PAGC provided names of wildlife nuisance entities to the Mt Lebanon municipality for consideration of the RFP. Thus, they have engaged "directly or indirectly in business transactions or private arrangement for profit which accrues from or is based upon his official position or authority".
They engaged indirectly in Wildlife Specialist's business transaction by limiting recommended nuisance provider recommendations to a select few.
They should not have provided any recommendations or direction to Mt Lebanon municipality on potential private arrangements.
Last night, KDKA TV announced the planned protest today on Connor Road. I am trying to get the video footage of the news.
ReplyDeleteOne of the commissioners warned an anti-cull person in an email that the police will arrest anyone who attends the 3:00 PM protest. As the police officer who came to my house last over a disturbing email that I received yesterday explained, it is our First Amendment Right.
Elaine
I'd send a copy to the ACLU.
DeletePut another item on the commissioners plate.
Season 1 (2006): The goal of 75 deer killed was not met. 69 deer were killed. The breakdown included 31 juveniles, 38 adults.They removed 56 fetuses from pregnant does.
ReplyDeleteSeason 2: The goal of 150 deer was not met. 145 deer were culled and the Lindendale deer which bled to death made the total count of 146 deer. They were not required to count fetuses in Season 2.
Will our commissioners require Wildlife Specialists to keep track of fetuses? Something to think about.
Elaine
This is a video of two brave Pennsylvania women protesting at a pigeon shoot by themselves. The pigeon shooting cowards were yelling obscentities at them, and one tried to hit one of the women with his car. When the women stood their ground, the pigeon shooters called their good old boy Bensalem Police Department to come out to intimidate the women. Unfortunately, for the pigeon shooters, one women, who is a lawyer, doesn't intimidate easily, and schools the corrupt Bensalem Police Department in the law, and kicks off all attempts to be intimidated by bent cops.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qFAGLBJfE
With Linfante's estimate of 100 deer per sq. mile, I'm wondering why we are only seeing a handful of deer in the woods going to the corrals.
ReplyDeleteHow many times have we heard the pro-kill speakers, deer-poop is up to their knees, or the deer are eating all their flowers, or they were mugged and robbed by a gang of terrorist deer, at citizen comments saying that they have herds of 16 to 20 deer in their back yard every day. I guess these residents don't own cameras; i.e. we've never seen pictures of these deer herds.
Where are these herds of deer? This is no way looks like the burgeoning out of control population of deer the citizens have be sold on, and the media and press reports.
Mt. Lebanon had designed their community to include beautiful trees lined streets, corridors of wooded areas throughout their neighborhoods, and interspersed with small parks for residents to enjoy. The intention was to create a very rustic and outdoorsy like environment, so residents, while only 5 miles outside of downtown Pgh. could feel like they were living in the country.
So why are residents, who chose to live in this kind of community, complaining about wildlife, when the community was designed to attract and support wildlife?
I will not be at the protest today on Connor Road, so I want to emphasize a few things.
ReplyDeleteWe will be on a main road and safety is our number 1 priority. Please move back from the drop off site when we are dropping people off, so we can do this as quickly and safely as possible.
The police will be there. They are there to protect US and ensure OUR safety. They have expressed that to multiple people. Please comply will anything the police ask us to do. They are not there to intimidate or harass, but to protect us.
People have mentioned wanting to go down and do stuff to the trap during the protest. Under no circumstances are people to mess with the baiting stations. EVER.
Good luck and be safe!
Elaine
A Lancaster paper ran a poll on the Mt Lebo deer cull. Lancaster, PA, right in the middle of hunting and pigeon shooting country. And still the poll they ran is almost 70% against the cull. You can still vote by hitting the "polls" tab on the right. http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/poll-pittsburgh-area-municipality-plans-to-pay-to-trap-and/article_5a9be6aa-bdac-11e4-953b-6f732a1ef7f7.html?mode=jqm
ReplyDeleteAmazing, havingg lived in areas from Bensalem to Lancaster it is not uncommon to see hunters in orange vest and hats tromping through fields during deer session or a dead deer strapped to the roof of a car or in the bed of a pick up.
ReplyDeleteIt's not like the region is filled with Bambi lovers.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if any residents, or any local humane officers, have requested to video tape this slaughter?
An email from a friend:
"I wish that what Lynn and I and a few others saw at a hunt a few years ago could have been video-ed – a doe was killed, and as the moron hunter was dragging her away, her fawn followed, crying….it will never leave my mind."
11:29, you don't have to request it.
ReplyDeleteIt's a public park! Go ahead and videotape it!
Absolutely video it!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, the opposition to relocation due to CWD and transport issues isn't passing the smell test with hunters:
http://www.outdoornews.com/February-2015/Deer-cull-in-Mt-Lebabon-Pa-annoys-upsets-readers/
PGC is pushing an agenda, and certain "partners" are making $$$ from it.
Maybe the Game Commission is overdue for an audit?
Helloooooo, State Senator Smith, Representative Miller is there anyone home?!
ReplyDelete1:15 is right, especially considering that one of Benner's associates conducted successful trap and transport of deer in NJ for three years.
I don't know why a commissioner is issuing a "warning" regarding arrests. A commissioner doesn't have any police power or law enforcement authority. In other words, mystery commissioner, shut your mouth. We pay our police department very well and we're not dealing with Roscoe P. Coltrane.
ReplyDelete1:55. As a thank you to the Pennsylvania Game Commission for their "help", we can return the favor.
ReplyDeleteMerge them with Fish & boat. Hunters hate the PGC anyway, and the legislature has been trying to combine them for years. EVERY other state has one, except Pennsylvania.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/03/pennsylvania_fish_and_boat_com_1.html
Drop some notes to your state senators, representatives and the new governor about this wasteful duplication. Would be a feather in all their caps for doing "something" amidst the usual gridlock, especially since the eternal struggle to end the LCB will go down in flames again.
Yep, downsize the depts. and save the taxpayers some money!
ReplyDeletePrivate companies do it all the time, but you can be sure with a democratic governor looking for tax increases it'll never happen.
Governor
ReplyDeletehttp://www.governor.pa.gov/contact/Pages/contact.aspx
Senate committee
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/cteeInfo/index.cfm?Code=11&CteeBody=S
Representatives committee (meeting March 4)
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/cteeInfo/index.cfm?Code=18&CteeBody=H
Email or call them all!
The Game Commission needs to be rehauled and the leadership replaced. Clearly they thought they could destroy our entire deer population without anyone noticing the corrupt, dangerous, careless, and inhumane plan.
ReplyDeleteDidn't Feller say publicly that the Game Commission gave him a few recommendations for firms to provide the RFP?
As of 2013, 420 people in PA were licensed to address nuisance wildlife.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=622266&mode=2
2:40 pm
ReplyDeleteIt takes more than notes to change things in Mt Lebanon, let alone the state. Also, one needs to be prepared for addressing the incessant lies and corruption. It's like walking onto the set of a small town crime miniseries.
Also helps to cc non-governmental organizations. Left, right, media, you name it. The more the better! That way they have to respond. Even if they don't take action, they will be ticked at the PGC for the distraction, and be aggravated every time the PGC wants something. Mention their action or lack of response next campaign and they will be even more annoyed. Hit em in the wallet!!!
ReplyDeleteWe need to stop coming back to the "relocation" idea. It isn't a good idea whether or not the PAGC is making stuff up (which is quite possible). First, it won't solve the problem of the "compensatory rebound effect" that is one of our most solid arguments against this cull. Removing deer has the same effect as culling deer - it creates a vacuum for more deer to move in and is likely to lead to more fawns born in the next generation. Second, deer are highly subject to capture myopathy. I don't care what Benner says about his buddies relocating in NJ, I'll bet a good number of those deer succumbed to the stress of transport and relocation to unknown territory, i.e. they suffered extreme fear and died of stress. And lastly, the people pushing for "relocation" the most seem to be the ones who can't find enough deer to shoot in the area they want the Lebo deer "exported" to. The best solutions for suburban deer like Mt Lebo's are the ones that don't create sudden vacuums in the population, while maintaining the carrying capacity. That is why we're trying to promote a sterilization program in association with a variety of deer deterrent strategies. Going round and round the relocation thing isn't going to solve this issue long term, we'll just be back here talking about this every year.
ReplyDeleteRelocating a dozen deer once a month us less disruptive than shooting 150 at a time.
ReplyDeleteEven a 50% survival of travel beats 0% survival now.
Is there a map that shows net deer deficit vs surplus in PA? That + CWD areas to avoid should help.
Not the best option, but worth keeping on the table, imo.
I'm getting ready to head to work and there are 10-12 deer eating my neighbor's bushes or what's left of them. The wife is saying that a group of neighbors are working with the various government groups to have a culling station on their properties. Seems that several "groups" have gotten them. But cameras were put up I guess on Friday. My kids pointed out two yesterday. So when they get approval and the roundup begins who actually shoots and kills the deer? My neighbors? I know there is a cop and several do hunt in that group. Does the area have a size requirement?
ReplyDeleteStreets, please. Unless you are messing with me, you aren't being a responsible parent.
ReplyDeleteElaine