Tuesday, July 10, 2012

Full count. Pass the bottle.

I have a little rule that I like to follow. When I hear a complaint from three or more people, I think it might be time to write about it. I am not very popular with the sports groups around here as it is, so this will definitely throw some people over the edge.

I have not been to a youth sporting event in Mt. Lebanon for many years. From what I have been told, things have really changed since I attended. I understand it has become common practice for parents to bring alcohol to their kids' games. I do enjoy a good margarita or a glass of wine now and then, but I have never brought alcohol to any of the sporting events. First, I don't think it is appropriate. Second, or maybe it should have been first, I don't think it is legal to drink in our parks or school grounds.

I just started a new poll about alcohol and youth sporting events. Please take a moment to vote.  Thanks.

59 comments:

  1. Smoking is illegal on school grounds and in the stadium, why would alcohol consumption be any different?
    I believe alcohol is forbidden in the parks already.

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  2. I think alcohol is not allowed in the parks. I don't drink alcohol much, so I don't pay much attention to it. However, if I do decide to have a glass of wine, I don't start it until AFTER the kids are in bed.

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  3. THANK YOU! I've watched it for years. Doesn't send a positive message to the kiddies.

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  4. 1:37 hate to break this to you, but half of the Lebo kids are well lit by 9.

    Just look at the police blotter. Those are just the ones they catch.

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  5. Assuming for a moment that it isn't illegal to consume alcohol in the parks (a false assumption, for sure, since it most likely isn't legal), I see no problem with the responsible consumption of alcohol at any function, even children's sporting events.

    Might even chill the parents out a bit so they aren't so stressed out about their kids' athletic performance.

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  6. 1:49 PM Is that 9 PM or 9 years old?
    Someone sent this to me. Alcoholic beverages
    102.7 No gambling, alcoholic beverages or illegal use of drugs shall be permitted.
    Elaine

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  7. Grow up, parents, for the sake of your kids and leave the booze at home.

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  8. Nothing deters the athletic deadbeats - not even the laws of Lebo.

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  9. First of all 1:53 Mt. Lebanon's Park Regulation forbid gambling, alcohol or drugs.

    Second-
    "Anytime you are in public (whether you’re walking down the street or driving a vehicle), Pennsylvania’s open container laws apply to you. These laws regulate the possession of an open container of alcohol in public as well as the penalties you may receive for violating them."

    While I like a cold beer or mixed drink as much as the next guy there is a place and time for it. A youth sports game is not one of them. If you can't go 2 hours without a drink don't go. You obviously not that fun to be around or that interesting.

    I meant 9 pm.

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  10. Your poll, incidentally, is wildly ridiculous in its wording. It's quite possible to say "Yes" without coming across as a completely arrogant jackass. And it's perfectly possible to say "No" and not be a self-righteous jackass.

    Parents drinking at a sporting event (if it is legal, mind you) would have absolutely nothing to do with the underage drinking problem in Lebo. In fact, if it were legal and kids saw responsible consumption of alcohol as a normal activity that adults partake in, I'd venture a guess that the drinking culture wouldn't be so out of control for kids. Forbidden fruit and all that jazz.

    Now perhaps the argument could be made that breaking the law by parents contributes to law-breaking by children. However, as framed in the question and your initial commentary, that's not what you are asking.

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  11. It's pretty sad when parents can't attend their offsprings' games without drinking alcohol.

    They should be getting their highs from watching their kids perform rather than from booze.

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  12. I have been to multiple girls softball games, swim meets and boys baseball games, oh yeah and rec basketball both boys and girls, and have have NEVER seen anyone bring alcohol to these events.
    Maybe your source is incorrect. Maybe your source saw one parent and expanded that to multiple parents on multiple occassions.

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  13. I hope that the police change tactics and switch from watching the Divy Inn and monitor the cars leaving Wildcat/Middle Field.

    Any DUI fines could go towards the artificial turf.

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  14. Elaine,
    I have attended hundreds (if not thousands) of youth sports events over the past 11 years and have seen only 1 instance of alcohol being consumed. This was by some Peters Twp parents who were attending a travel baseball game and were not aware of the Mt. Lebanon Park alcohol ordinance.

    Additionally, the MTLPD regularly drive thru the parking lots on an almost hourly basis. If anyone is witnessing this type of activity, a non emergency call will have this issue addressed almost immediately.

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  15. I'm curious as how 3:02 can claim drinking alcohol at a sporting event (in Lebo) is legal?
    From everything I can find in Lebo recreation areas alcohol consumption is forbidden. I'm pretty sure it is also forbidden on school grounds.
    Now I do know it goes on but I don't think it is allowed. Can the person that makes that claim please provide documentation of their claim?
    And no the discussion is not about Steeler, Pirate or Penguin games... we're talking about youth games in Lebo.
    I personally have only seen it once or twice but believe it shouldn't happen at all.

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  16. @2:55 and @5:19, if you'd actually read what I wrote, you'll see that both times I prefaced what I said with some variation of "if it is legal" (and even acknowledged that it probably wasn't). As the initial post was written, Elaine wasn't even sure if it was legal so I was reacting to the situation as presented.

    Turns out it is illegal. Therefore, I don't think it is appropriate.

    But I stand by my belief that drinking responsibly around children in any legally allowable situation is perfectly acceptable.

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  17. Citizenship Expectations
     
    Stress  a healthy lifestyle including the importance of proper nutrition and refraining from the use of drugs, alcohol and tobacco

    The above is from the MTLSD Athletes Handbook. So 3:02 are you saying we teach our kids... "do as I say, not as I do!"?

    For a couple of hours you can't go without a drink? That's a shame.

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  18. This last post is exactly why bloggers aren't journalists. Posting rumors to elicit outrage is as bad as bullying.

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  19. Sorry 3:02 I see now that you "if" it were legal. For some reason if and the ( were scrunched together and I didn't see it.

    Apologies.

    Should have skipped that fourth martini.

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  20. 6:11 PM, you should know by now that I verify everything before publishing it. Read all the crap that was said about me on my post about the Ward 1 race. Also, the plagiarizing, I mean, not citing sources of our school board president turned out to be true too.
    Nice try.
    Elaine

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  21. @5:56, are you being intentionally ridiculous? Drugs, alcohol, and tobacco are illegal for minors (90%+ of all Mt. Lebanon athletes and participants in athletics). It has nothing to do with "do as I say, not as I do." If I were advocating for smoking meth at a Little League game you'd have an argument. However, I've stated that I don't think parents should drink alcohol at games because it is illegal.

    If it weren't illegal, what would the problem be with a parent drinking a beer on a nice evening while watching his or her kid play baseball?

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  22. 7:32 ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS.
    You really need to have a beer at ever function you attend? You can't forgo a couple of hours alcohol free with your kid?
    Hey, let's look at it this way. If you van have a beer while you're watching the kid play from your cozy beach chair, maybe the coach should have one too. You know kinda of Walter Mathau in "The Bad News Bears". I mean crap he's the guy out on the dusty field with the kids, bet he'd love a cold one.
    And why stop there. Next concert, pop a bubbly. It'll be just like attending the Met.
    Here's an idea - let's open a bar at the school board meetings. Happy hour should attract a lot more resident participation.
    You just don't get it do you. There are are reasons for rules, regulations, proper behavior and etiquette.
    Unfortunately, you never out grew your Id stage.
    Hate to burst your bubble but life isn't all about satisfying your wants or needs.

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  23. 7:32's got the right idea. Think of the money the district could make selling ice cold $8 brewskis at high school football games.
    Screw the PK fund raising study, put a few taps in the concession stands.and we'll have that renovation paid off in no time.
    Hey, beer here!!!!

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  24. So you "heard" from a source who verified that "parents" of children were drinking. They know because? They saw a beer bottle? they know that they were parents? Just because you say the source was verified doesn't make it so.

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  25. The whole point 7:32 is it is illegal so why are you wasting time here debating with everybody.

    If you want to have a beer while you're watching you kid play ball then you ought to start your own blog and write your commissioner to try and change the rules.

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  26. OK 8:36 don't you have to go pull the wings off flies or something?

    It's illegal to drink alcohol at Lebo fields. Are we agreed on that or do you want to take issue with what alcohol is?
    Yeah, you can sip some NyQuill if it'll put you to sleep, OK. Happy?

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  27. This is a ridculous debate. First off, when I was a kid, my dad always had a drink with him at the game. It would last a few innings and that was it. Was it wrong? Yes. Offensive? Sort of. Did I care? Not so much because at least he was there, watching me. Looking back as an adult, I realize how incredibly screwed up it was but again, he was there to watch me play baseball. And as a kid, that's whatmattered. I have no doubt at all there are parents who drink at their kids' games. Aside from being illegal (like so much else) and self-serving, as long as the individual isn't getting sloshed, I say so what. In the end, that parent will pay the price by having a child without a healthy view of certain things.To the one is demanding some kind of verification, I would suggest waking up and walking through the door labled "reality".

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  28. yes 9:00 i agree that it is against the rules to drink at all Mt. Lebanon parks. I would like to know if just because someone "heard" that there was drinking why it is considered true. Again, how was it verified. I could be drinking water out of a water bottle, or vodka, how would you know the difference?
    Again, is this such a common occurrence, or is it a blog post just to create controversy?

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  29. Oh no, no, no 9:00,
    8:36 doesn't get their treat until the games over, just like all the other lil' boys and girls.

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  30. 9:14 PM, are you asking for names? I won't be revealing the identities of those who told me, nor will I list the names who were seen drinking. Yes, someone could be drinking vodka from a water bottle, just as someone could be drinking grape juice from a wine bottle. Do you really think someone would go through the trouble to empty a wine bottle and fill it with grape juice?
    Elaine

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  31. 9:08 I believe the reason it's illegal is because at some point in time it was a problem.
    Just like in recent years the municipality has had to install speed bumps to slow traffic on residential streets.

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  32. I have a 15 and 12 year old, so I've been going to youth sporting events for quite awhile as well. The only time I ever saw alcohol consumed at one of these events was several years ago in Fox Chapel when the other team's parents had wine complete with those little plastic wine glasses. Thankfully, I have never seen alcohol consumed at any of youth sporting events in Mt. Lebanon throughout the years.

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  33. Exactly Tess, much ado about nothing. The post obviously was trying to inflame those readers of this blog that hate anything and everything about any kind of youth sports.

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  34. To Anonymous 8:36 PM

    I am not Elaine and heard about the drinking from someone involved with the sports organizations. Types of liquors were mentioned, too.

    Stop accusing Elaine of making things up. She heard about this from at least three different people.

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  35. Elaine,

    This may have been one of those topics to be investigated a bit more. If I said I saw flying monkeys and I got my neighbor to tell you the same thing, I hope you wouldn't post it based just on the word of two people saying they saw flying monkeys.

    Drinking alcohol at a kids sporting event is a pretty serious accusation without any proof. First, it does break the law (even if it might just be a misdemeanor) and second, it clearly sets a tone about how dead-set against the sports groups you are.

    Personally, except for my adult softball league and a couple of people who have a beer, I don't ever see alcohol consumed at these events. Not once.

    And now, I am upset at you for making me defend these people...oh well.

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  36. Tess,
    Don't you know that if 3 people complain about it, it has then "become a common practice" in the community?

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  37. I'm happy to be the proof. 4 years ago my son played baseball. He had a game over Memorial Day weekend in the evening at Wildcat (I think that's the name) and the other team's parents had a keg in the back of Jeep Cherokee. I watched some of my son's team's parents join the fun. Then I watched the coach of the opposing team join in as well (during the game one of the parents brought him a cup). I walked my son and two friends home (3rd and 4th graders) after the game and they quizzed me on the drinking. The kids knew exactly what was going on. The next day (late Sunday afternoon) I was with my sons on the blacktop at Markham playing 4 Square and a parent pulled in their SUV and lo and behold they had a keg of beer for the parents as well. (This appeared to be middle school age kids playing the game.) At the end of the weekend I wrote to the President of Lebo Baseball to tell him what I saw. He took action...unfortunately he forwareded my email with my name, email address, and telephone number which resulted in about a dozen different people calling/sending me notes telling me to stop being a stick in the mud. (A few weren't that nice.)

    To one of your other posters comment: we never saw alcohol at soccer or swimming or lacrosse.

    The reality is that there is a strong alcohol culture in Mt. Lebanon. I was always amazed when I took my boys trick or treating and parents would be sitting at the bottom of the driveway with the candy...and a cooler of beer. Gotta love the Markham parents. What kind of signal do you think this sends to kids?

    Sorry...not willing to leave my name on this one. Like so many families in Lebo I have figured out it is best to just fly under the radar.

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  38. So, an incident that happened 4 years ago is now a common practice. Got it.

    Oh, and all Markham parents are now bad because you said so. Check.

    Maybe the next time you should call the police instead of the baseball president.


    Elaine,
    Three people told me that they are going to be drinking beer in the library garden on the 25th of August.

    We better shut down the library!!!
    They obviously have a drinking problem.

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  39. Think what you want. I haven't been wrong yet.
    Elaine

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  40. Joe Paterno also thought he wasn't wrong. Had did that turn out?

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  41. You're a very sick person. Get help.
    Elaine

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  42. 6:26, do you or do you not drink on municipal recreations grounds?

    Remember you posted: "Personally, except for my adult softball league and a couple of people who have a beer, I don't ever see alcohol consumed at these events."

    So what gives you 6:26 to disobey the law? Because you decided you and your buddies can drink responsibly? Is this the way it works in Leboworld. It's OK if I make a rolling stop at stop if I decide no ones coming. I can fly through Mission Hills at 40 mph because I know I'm a responsible driver.

    Yeah go ahead 6:26 enjoy your cold ones at your 'adult' softball games. Heaven help you though if one of you accidentally drive over a kid after just two beers.

    Keep on defending the indefensible, just to attack Elaine.

    Cheers!!!

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  43. I'm not trying to dispute the fact that this likely has happened in our community. I believe that people have reported it to you, Elaine, and that they were being truthful. The issue that I guess I had in the original post was the statement that "it was common practice for parents to bring alcohol to their kids' games." I agree that even one instance is too much, it sets a poor example, and is not legal on municipal property -- and is just in poor taste. Where I disagree with the original post is that, in my experience, it is the exception not the norm and as such is not at all the common practice. Both of my children play lacrosse and I try to be very aware of that type of behavior because I want to discourage the "party" stereotype that tends to be associated with the sport. So, if there has been alcohol at any of the games, it has certainly been discreet. Which, again, doesn't condone the behavior but is better than kegs in the trunks!

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  44. Model Athletic Code of Conduct
    State of New Jersey

    The following model athletic code of conduct is promulgated in accordance with the provisions of P.L. 2002, Chapter 74.

    Preamble:
    Interscholastic and youth sports programs play an important role in promoting the physical, social and emotional development of children. It is therefore essential for parents, coaches and officials to encourage youth athletes to embrace the values of good sportsmanship. Moreover, adults involved in youth sports events should be models of good sportsmanship and should lead by example by demonstrating fairness, respect and self control.
    I therefore pledge to be responsible for my words and actions while attending, coaching, officiating or participating in a youth sports event and shall conform my behavior to the following code of conduct:

    I will not engage in unsportsmanlike conduct with any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee.
    I will not encourage my child, or any other person, to engage in unsportsmanlike conduct with any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee.
    I will not engage in any behavior which would endanger the health, safety or well being of any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee.
    I will not encourage my child, or any other person, to engage in any behavior which would endanger the health, safety or well being of any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee.
    I will not use drugs or alcohol while at a youth sports event and will not attend, coach, officiate or participate in a youth sports event while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
    I will not permit my child, or encourage any other person, to use drugs or alcohol at a youth sports event and will not permit my child, or encourage any other person, to attend, coach, officiate or participate in a youth sports event while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
    I will not engage in the use of profanity.
    I will not encourage my child, or any other person, to engage in the use of profanity.
    I will treat any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee with respect regardless of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, sexual orientation or ability.
    I will encourage my child to treat any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee with respect regardless of race, creed, color, national origin, sex, sexual orientation or ability.
    will not engage in verbal or physical threats or abuse aimed at any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee.
    I will not encourage my child, or any other person, to engage in verbal or physical threats or abuse aimed at any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee.
    I will not initiate a fight or scuffle with any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee.
    I will not encourage my child, or any other person, to initiate a fight or scuffle with any coach, parent, player, participant, official or any other attendee.

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  45. Tess: did you see the two items regarding alcohol at youth sporting events above from the Rutgers Youth Sports Research Council.
    "I will not use drugs or alcohol while at a youth sports event and will not attend, coach, officiate or participate in a youth sports event while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
    I will not permit my child, or encourage any other person, to use drugs or alcohol at a youth sports event and will not permit my child, or encourage any other person, to attend, coach, officiate or participate in a youth sports event while under the influence of drugs or alcohol."
    Neither item says "well maybe a little teeny tiny bit is OK!"

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  46. Does anyone realize how absurd 6:26 comment was:
    "Personally, except for my adult softball league and a couple of people who have a beer, I don't ever see alcohol consumed at these events. Not once.

    And now, I am upset at you for making me defend these people...oh well."

    First, never seen alcohol consumed at these events- except of course a couple of people who have a beer and oh yeah, their adult softball team. Hun, want to explain that thought again?

    But the best is they're mad at Elaine for making them defend these people.

    Oh you're so incredibly bad Elaine. That was a really, really big gun I saw you put to their head. Shame on you, Elaine.

    Do these attackers ever read what they write?

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  47. "I don't ever see alcohol consumed at these events. Not once." - 6:26

    Then who are you defending 6:26?

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  48. I found the link to the Model Athletic Code of Conduct that was posted in the 4:00 PM comment.
    Youth Sports Research Council at Rutgers
    Elaine

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  49. http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/psu/penn-state-investigator-freeh-condemns-university-leadership-644429/

    Doesn't this one paragraph sound like Lebo?

    "It notes that while certain aspects, such as the collegiality and high standards of educational excellence and research, are laudable, "there is an over-emphasis on 'The Penn State Way' as an approach to decision making, a resistance to outside perspectives, and an extensive focus on athletics that can, if not recognized, negatively impact the University's reputation as a progressive institution."

    Do we have a Mt. Lebanon Way in decision making, with an extensive focus on athletics and a resistance to outside perspectives?!

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  50. I think you have missed my point. I do not think a "teeny bit" is ok. It's not. I'm saying that the original post said that this was "common practice" -- and from everything I've seen here and from my personal experience I disagree that this is common practice. While even a "teeny bit" is wrong, it seems to be the exception and not the rule. Still wrong -- but not something that is happening at every or even most events.

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  51. OK I agree it's not common practice. Amazingly even the hearty drinkers I've known were sober enough to realize that our baseball fields especially during youth games are not the proper venue for alcohol.
    So here's a question Tess and I really don't have an answer but I'd love to hear others opinions.
    You at a youth game and one of your neighbors cracks open a cold one, discreetly!
    Do you ignore it?
    Politely suggest they stop?
    Ask if they have an extra?
    Call the police?
    Just curious at the responses we'll get here.
    Just curious

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  52. Well ... since it has never happened I can't say exactly what I would do. But hypothetically, I would probably ignore it, not because I condone it but because I generally avoid conflict. One of my many character flaws. Not the correct answer I'm sure, but an honest one. If they were obviously drunk or being not so discreet -- different story. I'd like to think that I would approach them and ask them to stop in that situation. Probably gather others of like mind so I had back up -- because again, I'm a big chicken!

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  53. No Tess it wasn't the wrong answer, itnwas a perfectly honest one.and mine too unfortunately.

    There is a lesson here though. We have a few individuals like Elaine here that think they see some things going on that they believe aren't kosher or on the up an up.
    Unlike you an I aren't looking the other way pretending it isn't happening. They aren't waiting for back up! They're stepping up, confronting the alleged violators and asking them to stop.
    What do they get for their efforts? Bullying, name calling, abuse.
    She/they may be wrong, they may be right, but they didn't sit back and pretend it isn't happening.
    So rather than being called "hijackers" and "haters" we should be applauding them as good citizens!

    Think about it next time some bully blogs on and criticizes someone for filing a right to know!

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  54. To continue...

    Maybe we should grow some cajones and ask to see if that glass holds kool aide or a Budweiser before some innocent kid gets run over by a power intoxicated driver.

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  55. Tess, don't sell yourself short. You aren't a chicken. You had the courage to sign your name (more than one!)and I admire that. I have not been in that situation either. Remember, I am just the messenger. People have come to me in confidence - some anonymously, quite a few times when they know that something "ain't right." I report it. I take the crap for it. I have found that the greater the backlash, the more I understand why people come to me in confidence or anonymously. There are some pretty cruel people here.
    It is a problem here. Going by the poll, I see that 28% feel that it is appropriate to bring alcohol to youth sporting events. So if we don't know how we should handle it, we should probably think about it. If anything, this creates awareness.
    OK, 28%, let me have it. Just know that this is the reason why people come to me privately.
    Elaine

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  56. Thank you for including my post and yes I was anonymous for a reason and that reason was demonstrated by the very next post. It is VERY Mt. Lebanon to go on the attack and it is why I made the comment about flying under the radar.

    And no, I wasn't throwing all Markham parents under the bus but I can very simply state that on my street alone there are approximately 7-10 houses where the parents sit at the foot of the driveway drinking beer and handing out halloween candy. Please explain to me what makes this a good idea?

    The reality is that my kids have remained involved in youth sports (where I have met some great parents) but at the same time my kids have been subjected to a strong alcohol culture in adult Mt. Lebanon. Has there been alcohol present at other events for my kids? Absolutely. But I was simply providing an example where I was so shocked that I wrote to the President of Mt. Lebanon Baseball. Somehow I just don't think coaches should be drinking in the dugouts.

    The reality is that there should be a zero tolerance for alcohol at youth sports/activities AND youth sports/activities fundraisers. Let's try making this about the kids and not the adults. Please.

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  57. Apparently too many Lebo parents live in the Hollywood fantasy world.
    From a review of the movie Bad News Bears...
    "After having narrowly lost the game 7 to 6, Buttermaker gives the team free rein of his beer cooler. Although they did not win the championship, they have the satisfaction of having come a long way. The condescending Yankees congratulate the Bears telling them that although they are still not that good, they have "guts." Tanner, the shortstop, replies by telling the Yankees where they can put their trophy. The Bears cheer and Timmy Lupus overcomes his chronic shyness enough to yell "Wait 'til next year!", then they spray their beers all over each other. The movie ends with a field celebration that makes it look as if they won the game."

    Does anyone know, can you wash beer stains out of artificial turf!

    "Wait 'till next year!"

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  58. The two worst things for artificial turf are chewing gum and Gatorade. I would think beer is bad too.
    I have seen the same thing on Hallowen. Even though it sends a negative message, I don't believe they are breaking any laws.
    The poll shows 25% of the voters are in favor of bringing alcohol to youth sporting events.
    Elaine

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  59. From what I hear, that 25% are lobbying to make holy communion a BYOB event!

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