An email that was between an Association leader and Mrs. Fraasch back in the Spring paints a very different picture to all the sympathy towards the sports group. I received a forwarded email that the Association leader sent to Mrs. Fraasch and it would make anyone think twice about the ill mannered behavior. She handled it in such a professional manner. It was apparent that the leader wanted us all to be backing his agenda for turf but it showed most of us sympathy towards Mrs. Fraasch and that she is willing to negotiate if members of the YSA were even remotely civil. This has not be a civil discussion on behalf of the sports groups and I think it is really a shame for Lebo. No one that saw the email would blame her if she left the fields people without an improvement. Actually a bunch of us have supported her since the email was distributed.
Kelly - I appreciate the time you spent as well. However I did give you some compelling proof regarding turf as well as some insight as to field conditions and I don't think you read what I gave you or even listened to what I said.
Quite honestly, the information you have obtained (if any) about the fields in Mt. Lebanon municipality is wrong. I offered to show you problems, explained to you what the problems are and I feel you really don't care to listen. If you believe that $840, 000 will fix your parks and recreation field problem your friends the bloggers really have you fooled!
It is obvious that the Town Hall Meeting meant nothing to you. You have your own agenda on what YOU want to do and that is your prerogative. However, you are are doing a disservice to the the youth of Mt. Lebanon (not to mention the taxpayers) - due to your own agenda.
You really can't believe that the citizens of USC, Peters and Bethel Park all have no regard for health and safety when they installed their artificial surfaces? We have had an artificial surface at the high school since the early 70's....it has been used by countless athletes, rec dept. programs (at no cost to the municipality!) and many other kids, parents, coaches and just about anyone who wanted to step foot on it!! No one has experienced any health problems!
Mt. Lebanon Commissioners have made 2 very bad investments to parks and recreation (Twin Hills & McNeilly)...yet they do nothing to solve, rectify or even consider a solution to these problems. Building another grass field (which will not help) at the public works is absurd....again your bloggers have you fooled. Why not ask your rec department and youth leagues - why go to individuals who are not familiar with athletic fields?
I more than cautioned each commission when they were going to purchase these parcels - and I can't tell you enough what a mistake it will be financially and how ineffective another grass field will be. Your not looking at ALL the possibilities or ALL the benefits of a turf field.
Perhaps maybe the YSA should start charging ALL users of fields for the $12/player user fee's....are you able to explain that to the cheerleaders, micro soccer and t-ball programs? They use the same fields we do and pay nothing!
I am putting my name and phone number on this correspondence as I am sure it will get passed along to all the SPINELESS bloggers in Mt. Lebanon. Maybe a good fund raiser for fields would be "Public Debates".......Bloggers vs. Field Rats....think they would show??
Yours in Youth Athletics
Chip Dalesandro
My first inclination was to not respond, however, I feel it’s necessary to respond so things can move on from your remarks.
This would be a good example as to why things haven’t moved forward in the past few years and that the YSA needed new leadership. A hot-headed email like that can make a Commissioner choose a multitude of other issues to focus on rather than something like Recreation. If you want me to move onto my “own agenda” I would be happy to and you will be sitting here without any movement for 4 years.
I have put in over 120 hours into meeting with folks about Parks/Fields/Recreation and 87 hours of those come from sports/YSA representatives, not bloggers. Actually 7 hours were meeting with bloggers. 26 hours were from the general community interested in the issue and current/former Commissioners. So to say that I am only listening to one side of the community is an insult and completely false.
The problem here is that not all of YSA wants turf and others would prefer looking at what we have before investing the money into something new. This ideology has been confirmed time-and-time again by your members and I happen to agree with them.
Your second problem, whether you were involved or not, you have a large group of sports associations that promised funding of the purchase of McNeilly and its’ development (not turf, but field space) since Krebbs was not working. So you have a community confidence problem, because a large group of this community feels that the associations owe them money and should at the very least follow through on written promises.
So, I guess I haven’t asked this to you, why didn’t you fundraise back then when you had the space bought for the sports/fields? Field space was purchased,a design created by Municipal Engineers and a plan that you could throw money into. This community has essentially put in over $2 million dollars (from taxes) into a field that will never be used and $0 was given by the sports associations. Today, if the sports groups would have pulled together, they would have the fields in use. Who essentially dropped the ball? Feel free to answer, but the truth is perception is sometimes everything and the community is concerned and not just the "bloggers."
You have brought up some relevant points in your email that I have been trying to get to the bottom of. I’m not sure our user fee schedule are fair and some might need to pay more. Do I want to see “pay as you go” not sure that’s a good option, but possible at this point. Do I see health issues related to turf? Yes, MRSA was a direct relation to our turf at the high school to name one. One year ago, I knew little about turf and started to do research. I have read hundreds of article pro/against the use of turf, including the items you gave to me last week. A couple of issues I have are the possible health issues that many (pro/against) articles note. I am willing to keep digging and even discussed some concerns/possibilities with Mark Flaherty today.
Let me wrap this up, Chip you can send all the nasty emails you want, call me dear in a belittling manner and yell all you like in public. I don’t care, but the bottom line is it doesn’t help you, the YSA or anyone else in this community. It simply pisses people off, so they are more incline to do the exact opposite of what you would like to see get accomplished.
Kelly
As another nameless recipient of this email, please note that Chip sent his email to a LARGE distribution list and Kelly "replied all".
ReplyDeleteKelly's email is on point. I was one yesterday who said it was time to move on. Looks like it has been in her head for some time as well.
Two things...did Chip really call her "Dear"? I'm surprised she didn't sock him in the nose...although, that email essentially does it with the words.
Way to stand up for yourself Kel. More happy now than even that I was able to vote for you!
I got this email too. When I read it I called Kelly to share that I was not a part of the same thinking as Chip. I asked her if he really called her dear and she said twice in a meeting. She explained the Robb Hollow idea to me while we were talking.
ReplyDeleteI think Robb Hollow is a fantastic idea and I wish the people that are pushing turf would be reasonable. Two grass fields would be a huge help to our sports programs and those who deny the benefits would be lying.
Kelly is one classy lady. This was what? Six months ago? Seven months ago? She never passed it on. I hope Chip wasn't disappointed that it took this long to get in a blogger's hands. I have been called a lot of things in my life, but spineless has never been one of them.
ReplyDeleteBased on what I read here, I think spending one dollar on field sports is too much.
Elaine
I got this email months ago. Shame on Chip.
ReplyDeleteChip Dear- you are showing your true colors ! Way to go, Kelly !
ReplyDeleteDear Chip or is it Chip Dear? Tsk tsk.
ReplyDeleteChip writes: You really can't believe that the citizens of USC, Peters and Bethel Park all have no regard for health and safety when they installed their artificial surfaces?
ReplyDeleteChip, we have an artificial surface at the High School, but we are lacking in an Outdoor Classroom. If we are to keep up with USC as you imply, perhaps Elaine's idea is one to consider.
Chip,
ReplyDeleteI remember when the Baseball and Football Associations sat down to discuss combining a baseball field and a football field at the Mellon/Washington complex. The Baseball and Football Associations agreed to the combination.
Later the Baseball Association discovered that water drains from the football field onto the baseball field because the football field has a crown (hump) in the middle. Metal water drains were installed in the baseball outfield to alleviate the drainage problem but the baseball players can’t see those drains when they are running backwards to catch a fly ball.
I have always wondered if the Football Association was no more forthcoming with the football field drainage information than the Athletic Boosters have been in keeping their repeated promises to fund Twin Hills, McNeilly, or the Athletic Facilities at the High School. What happened to the Public/Private Partnership to raise funds for athletic facilities at the High School, Chip?
You also told Elaine the YSA accounts were fine even though you did not keep track of them.
So, why should we believe you or any other representative of Youth Sports are being anymore straightforward with us today than you have been in the past?
In short, the RECORD OF PROMISES you represent is POOR and I truly believe you have already received more than you deserve from the Community, and a great deal more from the School Board and Kelly.
There is a time to be quiet, Chip - for you that time has past.
John Ewing
Elains, help me understand this. You do not like an email sent by one person to a commissioner. Based on that email and months of conversations (pro & against improving rec fields), no money should be spent on the fields? Are you willing to apply that mindset to other issues in the community? Having a referendum for issues expensive issues would be a better solution.
ReplyDelete9:50 AM, based on all the money that has been spent so far on field sports, I think they have not appreciated what has been done so far and their wants are endless. Once they get what they want, they move onto something else. It is OK to say no, once in a while. Look at what was recently approved out of the unassigned funds on recreation.
ReplyDeleteElaine
That's the thing. There has been MILLIONS invested on behalf of the field sports groups. Literally millions of dollars have been spent to secure additional field space for these groups. All with written promises from the sports groups to actually do private fundraising to pay for the fields.
ReplyDeleteThe municipality has gone out of its way time and again to help the sports groups but they have never stepped up to the plate with the promised funds.
This is why we are stuck with McNeilly, Twin Hills, and other investments made at the request and suggestion of field sports.
This is a broken record and its time for the commission to move on. Based on not-to-distant history, the field sports groups promise to fund projects and then back out.
This is provable and in writing.
Very classy, Chip - NOT!
ReplyDeleteCommissioners, PLEASE move on to more important issues here like road repair, maintenance of our recreational facilities and stop engaging these cry babies who continually want to take more from the rest of us.
Didn't they get enough with the high school sports facility? I'm a high school parent and this project was basically focused on sports. If someone is offering you a new field I would take it and stop complaining.
ReplyDeleteKelly run- you have done all you can and they just don't get it. I heard some parents today talking and they are all sick of the "ring leaders".
ReplyDeleteWe have been given an area that we raised nothing for and that's our fault. We don't need turf and you don't need the headaches.
How come the Vets Memorial had to raise 100% of the cost and the sports groups don't feel like they have to raise even half of the cost? With all the talk about being able to fundraise why does this appear to be such a problem? Vets Memorial raised over $600,000 and continue to raise money for maintenance. I guess the truth is the sports people just don't have the resources that others have in the community.
ReplyDeleteChip makes a jerk out of himself, YSA can't pay their bills, why are we even trying to work with them?
ReplyDeleteAt least Chip is thinking about fundraisers. As for spineless bloggers, there is Lebo Fields. HAHAHAA
ReplyDeleteAll of you that are supporting Ms. Fraasch's efforts need your head examined. She isn't listening to the users. She hasn't made any Recreation progress for Mt Lebanon. We are all in the same place with no improvements anywhere. Two extra grass fields won't help us at all. We need turf AND lights to get the kids playing.
ReplyDeleteSoccer parent here. Grass fields would help. I believe turf isn't possible at this time. I don't think the sports people can raise the money. The leadership has promised millions over the years to the city and school district. They can't pay the full amount owed to the school district. Let's face the music and appreciate the grass fields.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Chip.
ReplyDeleteElaine
How very sad for 5:45 PM. Check item number six on the agenda. http://www.mtlebanon.org/archives/30/Approved%20Supplemental%20agenda%2009-24-12.pdf
ReplyDeleteNote that it passed. You are looking more ridiculous than ever.
Elaine
Waa...waa...waa. Thanks for proving our point 5:45.
ReplyDelete- another spineless blogger
Elaine you make it sound like she had everything to do with those improvements. Those items would have gone to the Commission without Ms. Fraasch.
ReplyDeleteThere you have it boys and girls...the smoking gun!
ReplyDeleteThis has NEVER been about field space. Apparently we don't need it. We actually need turf AND lights to make a difference.
The agenda of these people is exposed in that one comment. It has been all about getting turf to keep up with the neighbors this whole time. This a vanity want and not a community need.
Unfortunately for them, many people have already seen through this. Of course, if they think they have complaints from people now (all the residents that showed up to oppose the turf option at the public meeting) just wait til they want to keep the field full from 6am to 10pm with the lights on in the morning and the night.
As for the commission doing stuff if Kelly wasn't on it...well, I can tell you this for certain...she is the only one that came to the commission with a plan to comprehensively address Rec's needs and most of her stuff passed when she went item by item. Those items were not being addressed by anyone else.
Them's the facts right there.
It ain't about more field space. It's about keeping up with the Jones' using taxpayer money!
6:13 PM, uh Kelly did have erything to do with those improvements. http://lebocitizens.blogspot.com/2012/04/turf-wars.html
ReplyDeleteIt was part of Matt and Kelly's plan for the unassigned funds. Dave's plan was to turf fields with the unassigned funds. John's plan was to set aside funds for pensions. And Kristen's plan was, well uh...she never did present a plan. Unless it was to kill all the deer.
So, instead of continually berating Kelly, how about a thank you?
Elaine
*everything, not erything
ReplyDeleteElaine
One more link about Kelly and Matt's plan.
ReplyDeletehttp://lebocitizens.blogspot.com/2012/06/kellys-and-matts-plan-reduced-to-this.html
Elaine
Seriously Commissioners, mooove on! This is so ho-hum.
ReplyDeletePerhaps you should all reread Chip's email. There is not one comment in email that is not accurate. Case in point:
ReplyDelete1. He advised the commissioners not to make the McNeily purchase.
2. The commissioners have done nothing to resolve their bad investments in McNeily & Twin Hills.
3. Fees for field usage are not allocated across all user groups.
4. Kelly's proposal won't fix the existing problems.
Again, another wrong email.
ReplyDeleteRobb Hollow will fix the McNeilly problem.
Chip maybe wasn't the one championing the purchase of the additional parcels for the sports groups but clearly the majority of the sports groups were behind those purchases.
Also, clearly Chip has forgotten about the MRSA outbreak from a few years ago. That would be the "one" health issue.
I can't say strongly enough, Kelly should walk away. Even if she gets a field at Robb Hollow, I have no doubt that the sports groups will not maintain it just so they could be "right".
Wrong again 9:22!!!
ReplyDeleteThere was no MRSA found in the turf.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/breaking/no-mrsa-found-in-tests-at-mt-lebanon-high-stadium-506778/
And how exactly will Robb Hollow (which by the way has now doubled in cost) fix the McNeily problem?
Ok, let me be stupid here and ask the obvious question. Nobody from the sports groups has answered yet.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the issue? Seriously. Because adding turf to Wildcat/Middle will exacerbate the known issue of too much traffic/parking problems for Cedar Blvd. In my mind, that is a clear cut case for not adding turf to an already overutilized area. Also, there can't be lights installed there because it would be against municipal code. Neighbors don't usually like to live in a place where there is light from fields at 10pm or 11pm at night.
But what is the issue with the sports groups. The answer shouldn't be, "We need turf". What problem are the field sports people facing?
I don't know, I think this one step has been skipped!
I will try to answer myself:
1. Over used fields- Ok great. More field space will address this issue. You can rotate fields, you can schedule practices for other fields. Great.
2. Existing fields in bad condition- Ok great. More field space and an improved maintenance plan will address this issue. You can rotate fields and existing fields in Kelly's plan will get an increase in their maintenance budgets.
3. No practices after dark due to only one field in Mt. Lebanon with lights. Ok, this is one area where Kelly's plan does not help. I don't think it includes lighting partly because the residents in her ward already came to the microphone and complained about how much of a hassle it is to live near Wildcat/Middle while practices and games are going on. I am sure they would prefer this hassle not extend into the nighttime hours.
4. Scheduling- Ok, great. Adding more field space means the sports groups get to add a column to their scheduling spreadsheet. Scheduling becomes much easier.
What am I missing? I think I have talked myself into this being all about lights...
So help me...I am seriously confused about what this is all about. Please, give me a serious answer.
One addendum to that last comment on lights...
ReplyDeleteActually more field space would mean you wouldn't need lights because you wouldn't have to schedule 10-13 years old to practice at 5am or 9pm if you had more field space to schedule practices on.
So now I am left with the opinion that the sports groups want turf because they want turf. I am really struggling here.
I guess no one noticed that their are already lights on Middle field. They are used all summer long for baseball and softball games.
ReplyDeleteThere is total of SIX houses on Cedar Blvd across from Middle/Wildcat. Three of them are adjacent to Middle Field, which again, already has lights.
Two parking lots also already exist at Middle and Wildcat fields.
The lights are NOT usable on Wildcat Middle.
ReplyDeleteThanks for trying.
They have to be replaced.
Chip wrote, " I more than cautioned each commission when they were going to purchase these parcels - and I can't tell you enough what a mistake it will be financially and how ineffective another grass field will be."
ReplyDeleteIs this what Chip calls cautioning?
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0Ir50G5vJkzTWM5Z0hDM0RhNm8
@10:50
ReplyDeleteTry reading my comment again. Lights are used at Middle field almost every night in the summer. Why would these 3 residents now be complaing about lights?
This last week I was fired up over an email that launched into Ms. Frasch’s lack of engagement with the sports groups. To prepare for a phone call with Ms. Frasch I did my homework. I listened to a couple meetings and after just one meeting I was simply confused, which lead me to go back to several other meetings. I was finding a different picture from what coaches and ysa had been telling us.
ReplyDeleteI heard in a couple of meetings Ms. Frasch push to talk about the fields even when Mr. Brumfield essentially whined about staying late. One meeting she asks to have each of the sports groups attend a meeting and speak in front of the Commission. Mr. Brumfield gives an excuse that wasn’t coherent. She immediately asks if he isn’t up for a meeting in front of the Commission that a private meeting between a Commissioner and staff with leaders be considered. My sense is she had a lot to do with the stakeholders meeting but could not get Mr. Brumfield on board. Again this adds up since Mr. Brumfield essentially canceled the meeting.
Another meeting Ms. Frasch asks to have the staff address the Commission for information about current maintenance and increase of maintenance on the parks and fields. I didn’t hear support by all the Commissioners and in fact Mr. Brumfield makes a statement that it would take too long.
We have a field problem. Things are not getting done and we (sports groups) complain about it all the time. Yes municipal fields are better than school district fields but simple improvements to the municipal fields would be a tremendous gain.
In two instances Ms. Frasch talks about addressing a field maintenance plan and ensuring the plan gets followed. She talks about having the plan and information about fields up on the website. Sports groups asked for this. We have gotten lazy on our field maintenance. One person does is very well but has to rely on others that do Sxxx. Ms. Frasch asks for rules and guidelines to be enforced by also placing them publicly. Again this is to help us.
Another example we have talked about for years is getting bleacher seats at Bird Park. Did Mr. Brumfield bring this up? No, I was shocked to hear Ms. Frasch inquire. Again Mr. Brumfield shoots her down immediately. I think his response was something about the Bird Park people freaking out.
I did hear Mr. Brumfield suggest that if someone found him a space for a full grass field anywhere in Lebo he would consider it. I am guessing he had no idea that Ms. Frasch would find one.
The most confusing part of all of this might be that Ms. Frasch seems to be the only one that is really doing something for the improvement of the fields and parks. I was shocked by how many times Mr. Brumfield blew the conversation off in public meetings. I have been told many times that Ms. Frasch wasn’t ever going to spend a dime toward sports and fields. That is simply wrong. I have been told many times that Ms. Frasch would only side with the bloggers and that isn’t even close to what I have read over the months. I have been told that Ms. Frasch has an agenda against the sports groups which again couldn’t be further from the truth.
Ms. Frasch’s direction really is what the sports group direction was about a year ago. I feel we changed our wants on her so now we unfairly (privately and publically) condemn her. Ms. Wainwright’s email that was distributed last week is nothing but false, deceptive and she definitely didn’t do her due diligence. If she had listened to the meetings and actually talked to those that might have some rational thought about the situation she would have a very different viewpoint.
This town does not need turf. We don’t need lighting. We need fields. I trust Ms. Frasch’s work on this issue far more than any of the other Commissioners. My kid doesn't have too much time left in sports in Lebo and I think the shouting at Ms. Fraasch needs to stop and people should work with her.
-Disgruntled Athletic Supporter
Do we need to see Ms. Wainright's email since it is false and deceptive? She was corrected at the last meeting. The YSA does not pay for Muni Fields, just MTLSD fields.
ReplyDeleteElaine
@ 12:37
ReplyDeleteWho specifically is telling you this information? You point many fingers but fail to mentiod the source of your misinformation. There are MANY sports groups in Lebo.
Pretty sure that bleachers are not permitted @ Bird. That was agreed to when they added the field there. I agree they are needed, but I don't think Kelly is the first person to think about it.
ReplyDeleteHere is the link to Chip's letter.
ReplyDeleteChip's support for more land aquisitions
Or
"Please let it be known to the Commissioners of Mt. Lebanon as well as all others involved, that MLYF fully supports the
acquisition of any and all land areas.
Such a purchase would not only help our community for
athletics but recreation as well - not to mention with keeping Mt.Lebanon one of the most desirable communities in which to live.
Yours in Football,
Chip Dalesandro
Commissioner MLYF"
I was not able to get to a computer earlier today, so here is the clickable link. I hope Chip doesn't come back to my house and say that he has different paperwork at his house but to just ask the rec dept. for a copy.
Elaine
There is no date on the letter you posted Elaine.
ReplyDeleteMr. Dalesandro has been involved in youth sports for over 30 years.
Was this letter written before the McNeily purchase? Were there other letters written afterward?
I suggest you all should watch the movie 12 angry men this evening.
There is no date because Chip didn't add one. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteElaine
12:37 Thank you for being honest. Now watch the sports groups go after you. Again it will just prove the point of these bullies.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Kelly Fraasch could do anything to make these people happy. Kelly walk away!
ReplyDeleteRobb Hollow isn't just about the fields. Why do they think it's always about them?
ReplyDelete4:08 PM, got an answer for you. The Chip letter was written Sept. or Oct. 2003. It was sent as a letter of support for the purchase of 23 acres for the development of more athletic fields.This was sent with the DCNR grant application for McNeilly. Chip's letter was submitted to the DCNR by the municipality when the municipality applied for a grant.This was when the sports groups thought they needed more fields. Now they don't need more fields. I wish they would make up their minds.
ReplyDeleteSee page 3 for Chip's letter of support.
Support from sports groups
Elaine
The above was from a RTK.
ReplyDeleteElaine
The letters you posted are from 13 different sports groups. A number of them are not members of the YSA.
ReplyDeleteI would suggest that anyone who has questions regarding the premise of these letters actually talk directly to writers for the real story.
There were many, many discussions and conversations prior to the McNeily purchase. For example, wasn't the purchase price increased by $200K when the commissioners came to the closing table?
There is much more to this story that is not being referenced....
Look at the latest YSA proposal and you will see groups listed that are not members of YSA. Be consistent with your arguments, 8:15 AM.
ReplyDeleteI was at the commission meeting when I listened to the passionate pleas of parents and Dave Brumfield for the need for fields at McNeilly.
So what as the real story, guys? Why do you need fields or don't you?
Kelly, pull the plug on any more field developments.
Elaine
All of the associations identified in the YSA proposal are all still part of the YSA.
ReplyDeleteNot according to the presentation. http://mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/8952
ReplyDeleteChip is not in YSA, according to the presentation. Also, lacrosse has never contributed to YSA.
Elaine
I just copied/pasted a couple of interesting statements. Amazingly they all sound grateful and willing to help. It dawned on me maybe the problem is the planner. A woman making the suggestions might not go well with these jocks. I wonder if Brumfield would have come out with this plan of developing Robb Hollow he would have been thanked and everyone would have shared the excitement about the parks potential. Dawned on anyone else? Read the quotes. They are more excited about a space that is compacted in trees, not even close to a central location and completely slopped. Robb Hollow has two clearings and is close by. The other question is, did Mt Lebanon get the money from the Soccer Foundation? If so maybe I won’t be as critical if they had money in the project.
ReplyDelete“…The Youth Sports Alliance understands the need for partnerships in completing this project, and the Youth Sports Alliance is interested in exploring its partnership role. On behalf of the Youth Sports Alliance, I am planning to address each of our member Associations about the project and to discuss the potential fund-raising support of each of these Associations…The Youth Sports Alliance is excited about the potential of this property and we look forward to the Municipality’s plans, as they develop. I look forward to exploring the opportunities for the Youth Sports Alliance to participate in this initiative.” YSA
“Our foundation is willing to contribute $125,000 to the project and assist in additional fund raising. We look forward to the future development and the use of the proposed fields for many years to come.” Soccer Foundation
“There are currently too few fields in our community to accommodate everyone needs and those that we have are in constant use with fields that are overused. Again, we strongly support this effort and look forward to seeing this project come to fruition.” Mt Lebanon Soccer
“As a densely populated community with not much available space, we are desperately in need of additional athletic fields. Our association commends the municipality as it moves forward in developing this property for the much needed athletic fields.” The Mt Lebanon Field Hockey Association, with our many volunteers, would be happy to offer our assistance in any way we can…” Field Hockey
I could add more but it was getting exhausting.
Yes, it is exhausting. I put up the documents and then am told to contact the writers for the real story. Come on!
ReplyDeleteElaine
According to your specific comments Elaine, these documents were written over 10 years ago.
ReplyDeleteWhile you still may be living back in 1972 (like the old high school), much has changed since then.
If you don't want to tell the whole story, that is your choice...but you lose all credibility.
That's what I thought.
ReplyDeleteIt was field space as the need up until Kelly Fraasch put a proposal together to add field space.
Now its turf and lights.
Once they get turf and lights, they will be back for more field space.
Sickening.
Here's the thing. I have to believe that Kelly got her hands on all those documents...in fact, I know she did. This would be why she ever went down the path of additional field space. And she came out with a terrific plan to address that need.
Now the same sports groups that asked for field space are saying, "Nevermind". Makes you lose your sanity doesn't it.
Who else can offer documents and not have credibility? It's a gift.
ReplyDeleteHow about this article from the Trib Aug 2011?
http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_753168.html#axzz29UFLZlbv
How about the podcast from August 22,2011?
http://lebocitizens.com/Lebo_Citizens/Podcasts/Entries/2011/8/22_Commission_Meeting.html
This is where the sports groups pleaded with the Commission for more field space.
Again, no credibility, right?
Elaine
I was looking at Kelly's blog today. It appears she has moved on to better "agendas". Look like you lost.
ReplyDeleteGo back and listen to the YSA person given the presentation on turf, "if we had the ability to have nice grass fields and more fields that would be our first choice...because we can't we are presenting you with a turf alternative."
ReplyDeleteI was away from my computer again today. I wanted to share an article from Chartiers Valley Patch which showed up in my mailbox this morning. Scott Park Ball Fields Getting Upgrades
ReplyDelete"Herb Ohliger of the Scott Township Athletic Association announced last week that they are working to put up new lights in the two baseball fields at the park, building new sidewalks to the concession stands and trying to improve the outfields."
Guess who is paying for this? The Scott Township Athletic Association. Seriously guys. Stop whining, and start putting money where your mouth is. How can the sports groups in Scott do this and you can't? Seriously.
Elaine
Do you mean the same Scott Township Athletic Association who receives revenue from all the advertising signs at their ball field? The signs that you vehemently opposed?
ReplyDeleteSeriously.
By the way, I believe 9 of those signs are sponsored by businesses in Mt. Lebanon.
You got your damn signs. It passed, remember? So where is the revenue? When do you plan on fixing our fields since this week you don't need more fields.
ReplyDeleteKelly, pull the plug.
Elaine
You never get your facts straight. Better look into the Scott upgrades. What have you or John Ewing done for ANY youth sport in this town? But you have all the answers don't you. Pull the plug on yourself. It's not hard to figure out who gave you the letters. Maybe the old recreation director?? Maybe he got a cut from the McNielly property? The price did go up at closing and no one said anything!? That really stinks!
ReplyDeleteThe letters were obtained from a Right To Know. Nice try.
ReplyDeleteWhat have I done for youth sports? We had six kids and two grandchildren living with us. All of our kids were involved in sports. My husband coached.
Thanks for reading, Pal.
Elaine
Please get the facts straight for me. Newspapers, government documents, and podcasts never seem to get them right.
ReplyDeleteElaine
3:56:
ReplyDeleteMr. Gillen was my softball coach. We loved him. I think he headed Girls' Softball, but I am not sure about that part. He always gave the best snacks and drinks.
Just go away 3:56. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
Yes, 4:17, Tom was head of Girls' Softball. Send me an email. I would love to know who you are.
ReplyDeleteHe had a whole room filled with cases of snacks and candy at his office. The kids loved to go there.
Thanks for your kind words.
Elaine
Nice try Elaine. But the questions was, What have YOU done?
ReplyDeleteGo to hell.
ReplyDeleteElaine
4:23 No wonder people are bailing on you (YSA). Everytime a YSA has posted it only proves the point of this blog post. They all seem to be real jerks.
ReplyDelete3:56/4:23 priceless! Showing true colors.
ReplyDeleteHa, I love the "what have YOU done for youth sports?" rebuttal. How about this, troglodyte--I've paid my taxes and not run against commissioners who chose to piss away said tax money on youth sports. That's what I'VE done to support it. I've allowed you and the other Vicarious Wonders to live in my town, running your little darlings back and forth to as many athletic activities as possible in the hopes that what--they'd get a scholarship? they won't turn out gay? They won't ened up in your basement when they're 30? What? What is the reason for the borderline manic behavior exhibitied by some parents in this town?
ReplyDeleteI mean, Chippy dear, your signature says it all "Yours in Football". Holy hell, dude, get a life. You and your buddies want more fields? Pay for them. It's that simple.
The old Rec Director works for Matt Smith.
ReplyDeleteStill waiting for the "facts" 3:56.
ReplyDeleteSo what are you saying, 7:34 pm ?
ReplyDeleteThose 12 embarrassing letters about McNeilly from so many well-meaning people.
ReplyDeleteGet yourself anew lawyer to represent you, Chip. The one you have has confused the Community. I know lawyers try to confuse the issue when the facts are not on their side. Sometimes they to blow off the other argument, like Brumfield did.
Go ahead, keep up the nonsense fellas and when you have two solid votes against a bond issue you lost the argument. In the meantime the Athletic Boosters look silly.
No wonder the sports groups can't raise money; they don't have their facts right and they can't even write a coherent fundraising Case for Support.
ReplyDeleteGee folks, the dishonest deadbeats have a new Field House and a new Swimming Pool coming their way and they are still not satisfied. What new toy will they want their neighbors to pay for after turf and a new field?
John Ewing
John,
ReplyDeleteWe are in our planning stage now, and will get back to you soon!
Keep it up guys. You are doing a great job shooting yourselves in the foot. You have the skills to cull our deer.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Elaine, keep in mind that the folks on both sides have proven themselves capable of stupidity on this thread. 4:57 may have set a new standard for your blog.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with 4:57. Want more improvements? "Chip" in for a change. $125,000 was promised, but as usual, nothing.
ReplyDeleteElaine
9:19. Perhaps you can elighten us to the evident "stupidity".
ReplyDeleteFor starters, suggesting that parents support youth athletics so their kids don't become gay. Seriously?
ReplyDeleteI would like to get back to the post. How does a person contact a Commissioner and lash out at them with no sense of restraint? This might be the typical for Commissioners but I think it's enlightening to most of us that would never consider such tactics if they are asking for help.
ReplyDeleteOh, the irony of you labeling something stupid and then just being...well, stupid. Go back and read the post again. If you can't grasp the actual point, then go back to Chip's house and have a beer or something. I know psychology is a big word for someone who sees life through goalposts but try setting your bar just a bit higher.
ReplyDeleteFor all you sports people that post, please answer the question about the change.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that for literally years you asked for more field space. The Commission went and bought at least two properties for grass fields. And now is working on a third location with Robb Hollow. But finally, now that you actually have a location that is 90% ready for a grass field, you change to game to want fake grass and to put that fake grass at Wildcat/Middle?
Kelly Fraasch did with her plan exactly what you had asked for for years. She read all the old emails and paperwork and properly concluded that there was a need for additional field space. Not turf...but field space.
Now that she has essentially secured that field space for you, you are telling her to throw her plan away.
It was NEVER about turf until you had a plan in your face that addressed the needs and desires you had expressed for years. Now you are saying you won't support her plan at all. It seems that she has compromised with you in providing field space at all...in a budget that is not all that flexible. And you all, instead of applauding someone for their efforts in doing EXACTLY what has been asked of the Commission for years, you all spit on her. You call her names. You say she didn't listen.
It's clear here who the bad guy is. And it isn't Kelly Fraasch. More important than that, you all have probably killed your one and only chance for additional field space when Kelly says she has had enough of your lies, backstabbing, name calling, and deception. Who needs to deal with that crap from the same people she is trying to help?
Quite frankly, if I was Kelly, I wouldn't touch field space again until I had a written apology from both Dave Franklin and Chip.
There is something wrong in the system when we have to go to the bullies, explain why it is a good thing, and then what? They say okaaay. Is that how it works here? No, they lost their chance. Turn Robb Hollow into something other than fields. Get the apologies from Franklin and Chip, and move on. Dave Brumfield, Dave Franklin, and Chip Dalesandro ruined it for the rest of them. What's the expression? "You don't look a gift horse in the mouth." They started "analyzing it for flaws to discern if it meets their standards. Surely that would show a lack of respect towards the generous giver. Thus, people might direct this popular saying towards the person who is guilty of such behavior."
ReplyDeleteElaine
I heard about this string and I am absolutely disgusted. I had no idea this was all going on and I am a soccer mom. I also happen to be friends with the Fraasch family and know that Kelly has worked very hard to get Recreation upgrades for Lebo. Robb Hollow wasn't all about fields it was a community park with fields so whatever the coaches did it has hurt us all. We don't need turf, we need field space. Ask us all a year ago about fields at McNeilly and we wanted them. They were grass. The groans were about the travel to them. Now we travel to Cranberry, Pittsburgh, Peters. This is crazy.
ReplyDeleteWill this hurt not getting the pool renovated if the field people can't move ahead?
ReplyDeleteLooks that way. The pool improvements would come from the approval of a Rec Bond. If turf is in the equation, you won't get four votes. If turf is not in the equation, you won't get four votes.
ReplyDeleteElaine
Not to worry 8:39 - the pool will be renovated and the turf will become a reality.
ReplyDelete10:24
ReplyDeleteIn the plan Kelly Fraasch put forward the $5.5m bond would cover the pool, golf and Robb Hollow fields. Kluck has come out numerous times that he will not float a bond for Recreation. Where's the 4th vote coming from?
Are you saying that if the fields don't get agreed upon that the pool won't see any improvements? Wow! I thought Brumfield had agreed to the Robb Hollow plan. Why isn't he stepping up to the YSA?
ReplyDeleteI sent this letter to the commissioners yesterday:
ReplyDeleteQuestion for the solicitor. Is this a conflict of interest?
Mt. Lebanon Lacrosse Coaching Staff
David Brumfield is listed for Boys 7th. Why don't the Boys 7th have any coaches? Does leaving it blank eliminate any conflict of interest?
Dave, you shouldn't put yourself in this position. You might want to recuse yourself on any votes that would benefit field sports.
Elaine Gillen
I haven't gotten a response.
Also, it looks like Kelly has moved on to other things based on the latest post from St. Bernards.
Elaine
I don't get it. The Commission agreed to have eco-turf. Right?
ReplyDeleteWhy is anyone from sports upset that they are not getting turf?
I did go back to the podcast from a few months ago.
ReplyDeleteBrumfield absolutely said that if an additional full sized field was found, he would vote for it.
There's another reason Kelly went full bore on Robb Hollow.
Bendel has clearly fallen into the pocket of his neighbor and friend Dave Franklin. I had hopes for John but am completely writing him off as he has contributed absolutely nothing to the meetings to this point. I wonder half the time if he even reads his packets.
It looked at one time, based on Dave Bs words, that Kelly/Matt/Dave would form three votes for Robb Hollow. Matt did say he would not approve a bond but I think if it addressed the needs of the public in a way that made sense, he would come around pretty quickly. He was stung I am sure by floating of bonds to fix roads. That's won't happen on this commission.
I think there is confusion on the part of Bendel and Kristen as they were also led to believe that additional field space would be a good thing for the YSA. The recent change in the YSA position has thrown that up in the air. At one point I thought Robb Hollow would go 5-0. Then 4-1. Then 3-2. And now 2-3.
Here's what I can state for certain. If there is this tie in, this swap of doing something at Robb Hollow that would allow us to get out from under the McNeilly property, if that possibility exists and there are three commissioners that stand in the way of that, then that would clearly not be in the best interests of the community.
I doubt simply putting a dog park at Robb Hollow would qualify as "recreation space" as designated by the McNeilly agreement.
The thing is, I know the sports people dont give a damn about the land swap option because they dont give a damn about the community. They only care about their group.
I live in Brumfields ward and I believe he will run for re-election. If he fails to deliver on Robb Hollow, he will not get my vote. Not after all the words and mis-starts, and cow-towing to a few people in the sports groups. This will be the project that hangs around his neck just like Raja had the bonds for roads hung around his.
I had written about Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon when I was running for commissioner. We have a similar thing going on with Josephine Posti, called Six Degrees of Josephine Posti on the commission. Could explain why you are writing off Bendel, 5:54 AM. I picked up on the connection after the last commission meeting when Bendel said that he wants to looking at turfing Mellon again.
ReplyDeleteIf there is a land swap possibility with McNeilly, and all five commissioners are aware of it, for that reason alone, all five should be on board for Robb Hollow. You know, we have an outstanding debt with McNeilly. Nothing has been paid on it.
http://lebocitizens.blogspot.com/2012/04/mcneilly-park-outstanding-debt.html
Elaine
Grrr. * to look, not to looking.
ReplyDeleteElaine