Dear Mt. Lebanon Commissioners, Gateway Project Engineer Daniel Deiseroth, State Representative Miller, State Senator Smith and Congressman Murphy,From: Charlotte StephensonDate: October 29, 2014 3:35:05 PM EDTTo: Commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>, "Daniel S. Deiseroth" <ddeiseroth@gatewayengineers.com>, Daniel Miller <danielmillerpa@gmail.com>, senatorsmith@pasenate.com, Congressman Murphy <murphy@mail.house.gov>Cc: Matthew Santoni <msantoni@tribweb.com>, Jon Delano <jon.delano@verizon.net>, tjohnson@thealmanac.net, agoldstein@post-gazette.com, nicholaslewandowski@gmail.comSubject: Mt. Lebanon Community Governance and Artificial Turf Issue
Please be advised that opposition to the initiative of the Mt. Lebanon Commission majority to install tire crumb-based artificial turf in our main park is growing daily. Our residents, myself included, believe that this project potentially jeopardizes the health and safety of our children, the residents living within close proximity to the park, and the watershed that involves other surrounding communities. In addition to the unknown long term impact this may have on small developing children due to the lack of studies, the economic impact of this plan will be crippling for generations to come. These are only a few of the salient problems associated with this plan, but there are others.
Why is it that we seem to have trouble finding $5,000.00 to maintain our Veterans Memorial in a respectable condition, (as a Veterans Committee member our recent discussion was about a need for fundraising to maintain this), while it is perfectly acceptable to the Commission majority to spend the lion's share of our unassigned fund balance (some $750,000.00+) to turn our beautiful historic grass park into a toxic waste dump?
There has been a deliberate effort on the part of the Mt. Lebanon Commission and Public Information Office to suppress public awareness of the concerns that expert environmental toxicologists dealing with risk assessment have regarding this product. Such information was withheld during a public "forum" about this, even though the forum was originally intended to make factual information available to our residents. References to the artificial turf project became a "field enhancement" project as an attempt to reduce the stigma associated with the project. There has also been a deliberate effort on the part of the Commission to keep several relevant volunteer boards and authorities out of the process, our Environmental Sustainability Board and our Parks Advisory Board to name a few.
I contacted Congressman Murphy regarding this issue and have not heard back yet. Representative Miller's position is that this is a local issue and so he will not take any position regarding this, however he contacted the DEP as a favor to Commissioner Brumfield regarding the permit application status. I would like to hear from Senator Smith regarding his stance on the project, especially since I have copied him on numerous e-mails.
All you elected officials cannot turn a blind eye to what is brewing among your constituents. There is now talk of a massive protest in the near future so this growing opposition is not going away. Additionally, a community watchdog group has formed to direct any potential legal claims to appropriate resources in the event that injuries or illness occur with the children or fetuses of the pregnant mothers who will be exposed to the turf toxins and hard surface. Please be advised that all eyes and ears will be on this for the time to come. The roll call vote for this project will personally legally target the Commissioners who voted for this.
There are other options to improve the park area so children can enjoy playing sports. It's is up to all of you to represent all of us to the best of your ability. It's time for you to devise a better solution for our community. I look forward to hearing from you as to what alternative action you are willing to take.
Thank You,
Charlotte M. Stephenson
Mt. Lebanon
DO NOT count on either Miller or Smith. They are Brumfield's advisors and both believe they will hand over their position to Brumfield when they move uo the political ladder. In fact I'm sure both will inform Brumfield of any and all information given to them and help Brumfield deflect everything. But understand this is 100% BRUMFIELD'S folky, This has been planned for many years. In fact before Brumfield kid started playing lacrosse. Then it was football! And this is far from the end. A bond is in the works for several other sports related projects. Watch Mellon be turfed. The Rock Pile will be turfed and enclosed. Follow the money... People against this project because of health concerns need to merge with against it because of the costs.
ReplyDeleteThis is just ridiculous. This email is just silly. At least she states there is no proof to her claims. This is a great example of how if it isn't your way, it isn't going to be any way, right? Who do you think you are? Telling the commission they need to change it to YOUR WAY? You are in the MINORITY. PERIOD. You have a right to voice your opinion, however, you do not get to dictate, which is exactly what you accuse others of doing. This email is full of threats. Guess what? That is bullying! Another thing you accuse others of. You can dish it out, but you can't take it, I guess. The people who live near the fields do not have more of a say than anyone else. Those people complain about traffic, noise, lights---then why in the world did you buy a house across from a BASEBALL FIELD???? They pay taxes on their property, not on the fields (which are not historic, by the way, that is just another dumb comment), they don't have more rights than anyone else. This plan to get turf has been going on for years and there have been many meetings, if you didn't know, you weren't paying attention. There is nothing that backs your claims and we are getting turf just like we have at the HS field, which none of you complained about. There is rubber at Martha's Playground, where have been the protests about that? What a joke, at least have the guts to stand up and say you just want it your way and don't want the money spent, but this sudden concern about unproven health risks is just making you look silly.
ReplyDeleteAnd you don't read my blog, Kristen...
ReplyDeleteElaine
Elaine - 9:49 reeks of Kristen!
ReplyDelete33,000 people live in Mt. Lebanon. A couple of dozen show up to protest the installation of the turf.
ReplyDeleteThat should tell you something about how many people living in our community support you.
I am aware of two cancer medications that each cost $5,000. One medication prolongs life for 42 days and the other prolongs life for 10 years. Which medication do you think will be less expensive from your child's health care formulary, the one that is paid for for forty- two days or the one that is paid for for 10 years? The drug costs for cancer do not include surgery charges.
ReplyDeleteAnother medication is on the market to treat MRSA, The cost is $2,900 PER PATIENT. Remember all the claims about turf being a cause of MRSA that were made by the athletic boosters?
Athletics are very expensive for parents without introducing expensive health care medications possibly caused by turf.
Parents need to get involved now or be prepared for expensive surgery and drug costs for your children.
9:49 When the truth strikes deep emotional chords individuals react the most. Your reaction is an example of this.
ReplyDeleteI stand behind every statement in my message. If you would be less of a coward, come out of the shadows and sign your name, I would be more than happy to share the information that I have to back my statements up. However, you won't because you don't want the truth to come out.
It's time to have some factually based public debate on this issue rather than the deceptive process that we have been subject to so far.
-Charlotte Stephenson
The keywords here are possibly, perhaps, maybe...there is nothing you can show me that proves any connection and you know it. Why haven't you been protesting the turf at the HS for all these years? No answer, because you have no answer, because you are not concerned about anyone's health. If you were, you would be protesting the HS turf, the rubber protection pads at the playgrounds. But you haven't, because this is all just smoke and mirrors. You have no credibility. And all the comments about cancer drugs are equally as ridiculous and don't deserve a response.
ReplyDelete9:49 answer one question, please.
ReplyDeleteWhy did the PIO instruct McNitt not to talk about the health aspects regarding turf?
If the majority of the community favor turf why not lay everything out on the table?
You are of course, correct Stevenson doesn't get to dictate or demand anything. But tell, why does Dave Franklin get too?
Big overwhelming support for the turf at WCM... how many signatures did his petition garner?
10:46 I can share with you the recommendations I received from medical and environmental toxicology experts regarding this issue, but since you are a coward and will not sign your name that can't happen. Let me say that the experts would not move forward with this project without further investigation.
ReplyDeleteI care deeply about the health of our residents as I have served as a health care professional for over 30 years. As for protesting the HS turf, I was unaware of the risks involved until this current plan arose. I now know why the high school track was so extremely hot and why I would come home with tire crumbs in my shoes.
Smoke and mirrors? - not at all. Why don't you care enough about our community to promote healthy factual debate regarding this issue? You are the one here with no credibility because you attack and have nothing to back up your statements nor will you attach your name to the comments.
-Charlotte Stephenson
The commissioners, themselves, are not qualified to say that the turf is "safe". What qualifications would they possibly have to make that statement? The ability to read scientific journal articles does not render them qualified. So what panel of experts are they tapping into to tell the community it is a sure bet and that they are NOT adding risks to our community?
ReplyDeleteThey know they are ADDING risks because they are saying things like "Well, it's your choice. You don't have to let your child play there. I made this choice for my child in first grade".
10:46 PM, I filed my very first Right To Know in June 2010. It was about the toxic turf at the high school.
ReplyDeleteI know I have written about this before. My 1st RTK in 2010 was about the toxic turf at the High School.
Your argument is weak. We didn't start using tire crumb infill until 2010.
I have complained about the rubber pavers in Rockwood Park. It is all documented. No smoke and mirrors here.
Elaine
10:58 Thanks for asking without hurling insults. I am not aware that the PIO asked this, so I can't answer that for you. I am fine with everything being out on the table, but it seems to me like it is, and still, the majority wants the turf. I do not think Mr. Franklin gets to dictate either, but I haven't seen evidence that he has, although I don't know that I am privy to every comment he has made that may have led you to this opinion. If he has, he is wrong, too. I do not know how many signatures he had on his petition, but I can share my own experience. Out of everyone I have personally discussed this with, I only had one person tell me they were against it. That is the honest truth. I don't have any issue with people being against something, but this health scare stuff isn't backed by science. Gillette Stadium has this turf, along with thousands of fields across the country. The plastics used in playground equipment give off chemicals that some say are dangerous. The chlorine in the pool is cited as dangerous in some studies. No one is protesting any of those things. If people don't think the money should be spent, just say it. Don't hurl accusations, make up stories, call names, just say you don't agree. I personally shut down when someone calls me a deadbeat and then accuses me of not caring about children.
ReplyDelete11:17
ReplyDeleteI believe I also addressed the financial issue in my message. So, what is your issue? Also, have you talked about this with a variety of residents or just those who are in the sports organization?
WIll you sign your name?
-Charlotte Stephenson
Mt Lebanon played in the Championship football game in i believe 1974 at PITT stadium. They lost in the finally minutes when the other team kicked a field goal. Over 10 players on that team needed emergency medical care for infected skin wounds and blood provisioning. One ended up in the hospital for over a week on IV antibiotics. All were from turf injuries. There were very heated exchanges when they announced that the stadium field was going to be turfed. Everyone agreed that the cider track needed to be replaced. Ask anyone lucky enough to have had cinders in their knees. But many including the many Steelers that lived in Mt Lebanon fought for the field to remain grass. But EVERYONE should be against the turfing for its COSTS! Like the High School and the pool this is going to cost taxpayers way too much! I've heard that the costs have increased to 2.5 million. That's criminal!
ReplyDelete11:17 I understand that the woman recently hit and severely injured will file a lawsuit not only against the driver that hit her but the township as that intersection has been deemed dangerous. How many have been killed or seriously injuried in that area, I know of three that have been hit and died and 6 that were seriously injured. I'm sure there were more! Why isn't that money going to a project to fix this issue? Why is that money being thrown away so maybe 300 kids can play a stupid game when it rains! Really! Why not put the issue to bed and allow the voters to vote on it? Why not have a paper ballot on Tuesday? Afraid that voters will vote against it? Just like the lying School Board did with the high School mess? Soon that former School Board member will get the courage to tell people what went on behind closed doors. We're working on her. .
ReplyDeleteFair enough 11:17, lets have a polite debate.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the PIO, Eelaine has the documentation thru a RTK that there was not to be a discussion on health issues at the public forum.
We're getting turf, that is evidence that Franklin is getting his way. Is he one part of a larger group, a majority perhaps.
Do a majority of residents want turf, you say yes and back it up with personal observations and conversations.
I can say the same for the anti-turf viewpoint. There'd be one way to settle the debate... a referendum.
As for your claim that this is a health scare. Nice opinion, but are you suggesting that towns and municipalities that are stopping their crumb rubber fields are just a bunch of hysterical, ignorant idiots. Could it be that instead they are taken the most rational and prudent course of action based on the lack of specific studies on the effects of crumb tire rubber on young children?
For some reason you find it completely rational that Mt. Lebanon is the only community with the true picture on turf.
As for the money, there are many out there that are saying exactly that, it is about the money. Are they cheap, some maybe though I've talked to others that have no problem with spending money on fixing up our natural grass fields. They care about kids, they like sports, they like Mt. Lebanon, but the pro-turf side is also all too quick to hurl names and slurs.
The underlying theme is about the betrayal of public trust. Certain commissioners, sports people, municipal officials, and school administrators and specific businesses believe that ethics violations are the norm. There is no socially acceptable behavior of any person who deliberately omits information, lies, and manipulates people and situations for their own percuniary gain. It is dysfunctional behavior when a person or a group of people are bullied, scapegoated, victimized with malicious intent. It's abnormal behavior. It is not civilized behavior. The toxic turf is a major issue; however, the way the process evolved up to this point is the bigger picture. Boundaries are greatly needed.
ReplyDeleteTo continue our polite debate 11:17.
ReplyDeleteYou bring up chlorine in pools.
Are you saying that the chlorine and crumb rubber are like issues? Great I agree.
If you read the following link you'll find that many people are hospitalized each year because of chlorine in indoor pools.
So are you saying, hey as long as we don't hospitalize too many Lebo soccer players, crumb rubber is OK. Is that the litimus test?
12:02, please don't forget about public trust when it comes to spending taxpayer money. Why is it that our commissioners get to make the decisions on how to use overpayment of taxes otherwise known as unassigned funds? The more I learn how this government works here in Mt. Lebanon the more disenchanted I get especially when it comes to fiscal responsibility...or lack of. I was up some of last night wondering why unassigned funds aren't rebated back to the taxpayer? Who gave decision making power to 5 people to use tax money that was overpaid? Technically it's not theirs to use...period. If I overpay my water or gas bill it doesn't get used in some other manner, it gets credited to my account...why...because it's my money, not the utility company's.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to mix the PIO office and public trust, here it is. I sent an email to Rita over at the PIO office earlier today and I asked if I could spend some time at the PIO office sometime to see how our tax dollars are being used. Like an attack dog Susan Morgans responds with a scathing reply accusing me of wanting to "shadow" the employees. There is a true correlation between public trust and taxpayers and how our tax money is being used...or abused. I believe it's called corruption and it's rampant throughout our government here in Mt. Lebanon. many thanks to Elaine and her blog for allowing us to expose this.
Just my two cents on public trust.
Nick M.
Good point Nick. In the private sector. if your boss says: 'I want to spend the day shadowing you, they spend the day shadowing you."
ReplyDeleteMs. Morgans needs ti relearn exactly who makes her job possible.
If she wants it her way, buy the magazine and run it any way she wants too!
If she wants to 'scath' fire her a_ _. she can scath all she wants on her own time.
9:49 why during Commissioner Frasch's questions about the chemicals in turf were no answers given but I don't know.
ReplyDeleteI recall a happy consultant telling her "good news" that flame retardants are now added to turf fields because she shared concerns about the field being flammable. A question came that flame retardants are now banned from children's clothing because of concerns about the chemicals in flame retardants. The consultant wasn't so happy and had an answer of I don't know.
Commissioner Frasch asks who and what agency regulates all the chemicals? The answer is maybe the EPA but no direct answers.
Commissioner Frasch read one of the warning messages from the MSDS sheet which comes with the product all chalked full of warnings about the risks of lung injury and cancer from the tire pellets. Why are all of those warnings irrelevant?
What about the need for the filter for the water system but not on the turf for the kids?
What about the known high level of chemicals including lead, zinc, carbon to name a few?
Do you think the parents that are pleased with the project know all of this?
I will not accept "There is nothing that backs your claims and we are getting turf just like we have at the HS field, which none of you complained about." Please go back to the archived podcasts from 2010 on lebocitizens.com. You will hear many, many complaints about the high school turf. Kristen, you should be familiar with these meetings. You blogged about one of them on your April 20, 2010 Real Lebo posts,
ReplyDeleteMy Mother Taught Me Never To Lie "There are two things that I just can't tolerate - mean people and liars. The people who call themselves the "Concerned Citizens of Mt. Lebanon" have got both of those covered! I'm am so happy that residents are finally getting the real facts and are rethinking their allegiance to this fringe group." Mean people and liars, Kristen.
Psychologists call that projection, commonly found in Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Elaine
Brumfield created the ordinance allowing for the spending of unassigned funds via votes. #corruptioninplainview
ReplyDeleteI was never opposed to artificial turf based on health concerns; I clearly stated my opposition to our commissioners, and occasionally in this Blog, on the basis of a misappropriation of the public's money. My argument was, and is, that a local government does not have the obligation to provide entertainment facilities to a minority of its residents on the basis of that minority's wants, disguised as the "greater good." If the sports cartel had approached the municipality with an offer of a long-term lease of some particular piece of real-estate, for the purpose of improving it for the use of their members, and at their expense, I probably would have contributed money to the project. But as Mr. Franklin told me over the phone not too long ago, the sports cartel does not have the combined funds to tackle such a project.
ReplyDeleteFrankly, I completely understand the position of the members of the cartel. They are convinced that what they are doing is a good thing, both for themselves and the community. Most commission members feel the same way. This is why going to commission meetings to argue against this project - although admirable and, in one sense, necessary - is frustrating. Certain commissioners, cartel members, and residents believe that the superiority of their ideas grants them a special license to recreate this village to their liking. The only way to engage such people is in the arena of ideas, and that cannot be done in five minute sound bites, as is accorded to residents at a commission meeting.
Artificial turf was pitched to the community on the most pernicious of arguments; that a benefit to a demonstrated minority would somehow benefit the community at large in terms of increased property values (of course, increased property values mean more taxes for Mt. Lebanon), as well as attracting new families to the town. At no time did either the cartel or the commission present evidence, other than anecdotal, to support those arguments.
It seems to me that if any community outrage should be expressed it would be against this "reverse Robbin Hood" ideology that currently holds sway in Mt. Lebanon. But the idea that children may be harmed by playing on old tires is an emotional one that is hard to resist. And I'm not saying parents should not have any concerns! (I, myself, have gone from thinking that artificial turf is safe to the camp of "more study is probably warranted.") Still, I think that the stronger argument - AT THIS TIME - is the one that says public funding of a special minority interest is wrong, and the argument that this project is for the "greater good" is simply the leper's bell of an approaching looter.
PS: To you anonymous posters who support artificial turf: Elaine has granted to you the privilege of posting on her private Blog; something I am not accorded on some of yours! If you are so sure of your arguments why not say so publicly instead of hiding behind an "anonymous" monicker? You would have my respect, and probably the respect of others as well.
Looks like Mt. Lebanon is not the only place with arrogant elected officials who feel their voice is superior to that of the people they serve. Check out this school board member: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/29/waukegan-teachers-strike_n_6071380.html
ReplyDeleteThe difference there is that this place has a mayor - an individual responsible for keeping everything in line... He can call on these people to resign when they have lost their minds and their public trust.
Something for Mt. Lebanon to consider?
- Jason M.
Jason M. you are right!
ReplyDeleteMount Lebanon has a system that is grossly out of sorts for today. These Commissioners in charge of the Township Director and Director in charge of everyone else isn't resident friendly. We need someone in charge that is directly responsible to us as voters. I bet that would change our issues with serving the constituents really fast. I bet Director Feller would have been long gone by now.
@9:49pm
ReplyDeleteYou cannot claim a majority by counting as votes those who have remained indifferent or who have voiced support without considering the consequences.
I would argue that the taxpayers who live near the fields DO have more of a say, and should carry more weight in the decision process, if only because they may be the only ones who have taken the time to consider it.
With this in mind it is worth noting the proportion of those living close to the fields who oppose it. A quick count of signs on vee lynn and cedar shows about 80%. Do we happen to have in this area a group of ultra-environmentally sensitive people? ultra fiscal conservatives who just happen to live adjacent to the fields?
Or is it that because they have taken the time to investigate and make an informed decision?
It is not unreasonable to think that 80% of the community as a whole would act in the same way if the fields were located behind their house.
Mr. Gideon, I like you never opposed artificial turf based on environmental or health issues.
ReplyDeleteInstead I opposed it based on a personal perference for natural grass believing that it offers a superior surface, which seems to be backed up by a large number of sports professionals, men and women, in football, baseball and soccer.
It was also my belief that natural grass - maintained properly - is the most cost effective surface.
Now it has been argued by the pro-turfers that the issues has been discussed, debated and fought over for a long time in the community and turf won out.
But let's look at the facts.
There are claims that our fields are overused and turf will provide 60% more game slots.
Well, WCM is out of service so we should be seeing intense use of the remaining fields. Anyone seeing increased traffic in the neighborhood s around those fields? Do you drive by Mellon and find it packed solid with sports 7 nights a week?
It has been also said that the community has had plenty of opportunity to oppose turf. But, Linfante threatened to close down a municipal meeting when opposition was brought up. The community was told, the commissioners didn't have to listen to anyones advice or objections to turf, because they had the 3 majority votes to approve it. So why talk to someone that has told you they're not listening?
Then we have the PIO controlling the discussion and the questions in a public forum. Why go to it?
The latest commission meeting a resident asked why a zinc filter was needed if zinc was harmless, as President Linfante stated.
Did you hear an answer. We got a response that their paid consultant (paid not as a university professor, but instead as a private consultant) didn't think a znc filter was necessary.
That isn't an answer as to why one was being installed, is it.
Then we have Commission Brumfield tell his constituents that he's not forcing anyone to play on artificial turf.
Hmmm, I guess a parent you'll need to tell the soccer team coach-- my kid will play at Brafferton, Bird, Mellon but won't play or practice at Wildcat, Middle or the high school!
How do you manage a "team" where the players dictate where and when they'll play.
This is an unprecidented turn of events in the sporting world. Is this what we'll be teaching our youngest athletes? You play when it suits you! Unbelievable.
Or wait, Brumfield didn't say that. Then I guess he is dictating to people-- you like turf and play, if you don't like turf you don't play.
Once again, where is the school district, board, administration, athletic director and teachers union on the turf issue?
ReplyDeleteFor years they have been indoctrinating our kids that they are custodians of the planet. That they actively be involved with cleaning up the air, the water and the land.
So what happens when the very issue comes to the forefront, do they lead by example? No.
The district has a dog in this fight. They'll be spending money to maintain the field. They'll be putting athletes on the field. Step up board, Superintendent, do you approve of artificial turf or do you want to sit on the sidelines and play it safe?
Good lesson for the kids!
Once again, Rep Miller shows himself to be an empty suit. A local issue so he will ignore it? A hack indeed.
ReplyDeleteI had a dog. But she died of cancer. A very rare type. Afterwards, my vet, alarmed, told me to make sure she does not drink from the Mt Lebanon streams on our walks.
ReplyDeleteThis is why. Pretend environmentalism that actually results in poisoning our water.
I tried to stop the turf and when I did, I learned that Mt Lebanon had no intention of preventing pollution to our streams.
My vet was right; Mt Lebanon poisons the water and it might just kill your dog.
Great lesson for the kids from the school district...
ReplyDeletePlant a tree to pretend like you care about the environment. Nobody gets angry at tree planters.
But, when it comes to real environmental issues and health issues-- keep your mouth shut. You don't want to offend anybody.
No one from the Environmental Sustainability Board or from the Parks Advisory Board was present at the rally. I didn't see any school board members or PTA members present. No Environmental Team. No PennFuture. No other commissioners. No Public Information Office.
ReplyDeleteIf there is a massive protest planned, here is an opportunity for those groups and anyone else concerned about children's health and the environment to redeem themselves. Maybe the people who object to the turf project for economic reasons can attend.
The last rally was thrown together in five days. Imagine the turnout for the next one with more planning.
Elaine
Glad to hear about the protest.
ReplyDeleteJust remember Lebo, under every action taken by Brumfield, there is an ulterior motive.
Even if his plots to remove business owners from MTL Association, he is only doing that so later then the business owner takes over the turf, it will look like that wasn't his intention.
Brumfield, I gotta hand it to you: patience may be your only virtue.
There is a new poll over at Lebomag.
ReplyDeleteInteresting the fast response rate which is decidedly skewed towards sidewalks throughout the community.
Gues this will be the diversion to get people off the turf protest.
Too bad they didn't consider the $750,000+ in undesignated taxes could have been used for sidewalks.
Now they'll have to tax or impose hefty fees on residents.
Now people will have two reasons to hate our local officials and engineer.
Rumor is that you have rubber mulch in your home landscape. True or false?
ReplyDelete9:30 AM, i can't speak for Charlotte, but if your comment was directed toward me, yes I do. We got it about ten or fifteen years ago. The heat from the product burned the roots of many plantings when we first used it. Obviously, you have seen the extensive and expensive landscaping that I am having done. I am in the process of having it removed. If you have no problem with it, you are welcome to take it. I can finally spread the bags of bark that have been sitting in the yard since April. I have limited funds, (don't we all?) and the process is going much slower than I would like. Please help.
ReplyDeleteElaine
All of these comments just prove none of you are interested in having a conversation/exchange/debate that is based on fact. Ms. Stephenson, are we really to believe that you just went along with the HS turf and never questioned it all these years? If you are so concerned with the health of this community, you never looked into it then? I am FAR more concerned with my neighbors use of pesticides sprayed by trucks that leave little yellow flags to indicate you should stay off the lawn! There are no facts that say this is dangerous. Start your campaign to rip up the Main Park playground, close the pool, rip up the track and the HS turf, and ban all Lebo kids from playing in other communities. None of you care about the health of these kids, you just don't want the money to be spent on something that you didn't hand pick. If the money was going to a skate park, the blog owner would be all over it. Voice your opposition, but tell the truth, this is about money. Just like your fight against the HS, because your kids are no longer there. So it was fine when other people's taxes supported your kid's education, you just don't want to do the same. If it isn't important to you, it shouldn't happen. These folks were voted into office by a majority. The majority of people want this project and have for years. The indication by one poster that those who live by the fields should have a greater say is crazy. They don't own the fields and if the fields and the activity there bothers them, they should not have purchase a home next to a rec facility! How stupid!
ReplyDelete10:03, you keep claiming that a majority of MTL residents this project and have for years.
ReplyDeleteWhere is your proof? Is there a roll call? Was there a referendum and I missed it?
You can say something but that doesn't make it so.
Yes, these people were elected into office, but to say that therefore a majority want turf based on that is absurd. Was that the only issue they ran on?
No one vote for Linfante because she favored killing deer. Or are you insinuating that all proturf voters all favor deer culls, higher taxes and are complacent about kids health and the environment.
A number of these people were voted into office prior to the media attention given to goalies coming down with cancer.
Maybe they've changed from thinking turf was a good idea since they voted Brumfield into office.
Your claims of overwhelming support for turf are an unsupported opinion disguised as some sort of fact.
To put it harsh but necessary terms, your claim is bullshit.
Prove me wrong, show us the signatures from 51% of the community. Sow me 51% of the referendum votes for turf.
I'm calling your bluff here and now.
The argument adduced by October 31, 2014 at 10:03 AM is classic inductive reasoning; i.e., the conclusion is probable but not absolute.
ReplyDeleteThese folks were voted into office by a majority.
A MAJORITY? A majority of whom? Of the people who bothered to vote? - Yes. Of the registered voters in their Wards? - not even close!
The majority of people want this project and have for years.
Again, the majority of "what people?" This one is impossible to justify because no evidence has been presented to substantiate such a claim.
If the poster had said that the majority of commissioners are in favor of artificial turf for the Cedar Boulevard fields then I would not have bothered to make a rebuttal. But this business of claiming to speak for a "majority" of Mt. Lebanon voters, or even residents, without a modicum of evidence, is something that would not be tolerated in any of the classes on logic I took (or the ones I taught!) - and I might point out that this is not limited to the "pro-turf" people. Anyone trying to lobby for a particular point of view is susceptible to emotional hyperbole. Politicians do it all the time. For example, Mr. Brumfield is fond of stating that he won his ward with 98% of the vote! What he does not mention - probably because it's embarrassing - is the source of that figure. Here is the truth of the matter:
2013 Ward 4
Registered voters: 4960
People who voted: 969 (20%)
People who voted for Mr. Brumfield: 709 (14%)
People who wrote in other candidates, including a dog: 16 (1.7%)
Total number of people voting for a commissioner in Ward 4: 725
Mr. Brumfield's percentage of those 725 votes: 98%
And that is where the 98% figure comes from.
In this post I am reaching out to the intelligent residents of Mt. Lebanon who are trying to make some sense of this artificial turf issue, and the various claims of the community's sentiment made by both sides of the issue. That Ms. Gillen publishes a variety of opinions and claims is in the best tradition of a free press; but I would test any claims made here by that peculiar mental process called thinking!
12:04 I can't have a healthy debate/conversation/exchange with you because you are too cowardly to sign your name.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is, I was as unaware of the high school turf composition when I used to go and exercise on it, just as most people are unaware of what is in all of those little tire crumbs that will soon be dumped on to our community park.
I don't like pesticides either. My neighbor used to spray commercial grade chemicals that he bought from a landscaper relative and I could actually taste the stuff when he used it. If you are concerned about the use of pesticides in your neighborhood then why don't you do something about it? That's your right to do just as I am exercising my right..
There were previously no facts to say that cigarettes were dangerous and how many people died of smoking? We now know better. How much research have you personally done to prove that there is no risk to children who will use the turfed fields? Perhaps you could debate with Dr. Phil Johnson, PhD, MPH, MESc and former resident who stated "In order to determine whether the proposed fields in Mt. Lebanon may pose a health risk to humans – and especially to our susceptible populations – decision makers and the community require (a) full and complete lists of ingredients and materials in the artificial fields (including fill and synthetic grass blades) and (b) full and complete lists of ingredients and materials to be used to maintain the artificial fields, including for example any pesticides, biocides or cleaning agents.
With this information in hand, the community and its leadership can begin a process to ascertain potential exposures and the possibility of associated adverse health effects to humans on and using the fields toward a deliberative decision-making process about whether to undertake an activity with the potential to harm public health.
Without this information, there is no way to characterize public health risk and make an informed decision because information will be incomplete, limited and subject to excess uncertainty.
Given this uncertainty, the health and well-being of our populations – including pregnant persons, infants, children, those with respiratory disease including asthma, those with allergies, those with neurodisabilities or disorders; those with cancer or surviving cancer; and those at risk of developing cancer – may be at risk. (This is where I believe the frustration comes in since the MSDS sheets for the exact products to be used and installed are not being made available in spite of multiple requests for them.)
Still think it is all about money? Of course, money is also an issue given the amount that will be needed to maintain this in perpetuity.
The truth is that you have your agenda and want to personally attack people like me who won't sit on my hands and let a handful of myopic residents and Commissioner run rough shot over this community.
Your comments about the education here are completely irrational. What has been slashed from the ever-increasing district budget to compensate for the poor spending decisions of the past? I recently was told there is no paper to give to kids in the school, I guess that is what a "21st Century Learning" facility will get you.
By the way, when those homeowners bought their houses they never thought that the park would be converted into a toxic waste disposal.
That's it - no further debate from me if you won't sign your name.
-Charlotte Stephenson