Too many unknowns UPDATED

We, including commissioners, don't know how many deer were killed last night. Channel 4 news reported today that they had taken 3 deer in the first 4 days of the cull. That tells me that no deer were killed last night.

We, including commissioners, don't know where the three deer were killed.

We, including commissioners, don't know where the meat is being processed. One thing for sure, it isn't Kip's.

We don't know if the McNeilly site violates a PA State mandated 150 yard safety buffer zone.*

We don't know if the commission realizes that the amended Game Commission permit allows semi-automatic rifles in .223 calliber to be used in these corrals/death traps. See page 2, condition 6.

March 12, 2015 4:08 PM It seems Mr. John Hayes, from the Post-Gazette is not objective at all. He is so obviously representing the other side now, it's ridiculous.

Kelly Fraasch sent out the following email to those who asked:

FYI, 

We received this information from Chief McDonough this afternoon.
I think you each asked about this... 

"I spoke with Merlin Benner this a.m. and he mentioned the article and the referenced thermal imagery. Turns out Mr. Hayes misunderstood Mr. Benner, who was referring to an entirely different Wildlife Specialists' operation taking place in New Jersey, where his employees were engaged in flying airborne missions equipped with thermal imaging devices to count deer for that program." From Chief McDonough
--

KELLY FRAASCH
Ward 5 Commissioner, Mt Lebanon

Please note this is a public email. All emails on this account are subject to Right to Know which is public!
For more information about my thoughts on various topics, please check out my blog atwww.kellyfraasch.com/blog.

I've joined Nextdoor.com, please join and get your neighborhood to join!

Update March 12, 2015 5:44 PM *We now have an answer to the McNeilly site.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 3:53 PM, Coleman McDonough <cmcdonough@mtlebanon.org> wrote:

Here is the Game Commission's verbatim response regarding the relevance of safety zone requirements to our current culling program: 

Chief Coleman,

  As a political subdivision holding a valid deer control permit issued under section 2902 of the Game and Wildlife Code, Safety Zone requirements do not apply to the permitted activity.  Section 2505 (a) of Title 34 specifically addresses this exemption.

 Scott W. Tomlinson

Law Enforcement Supervisor  Southwest Region  Pennsylvania Game Commission  4820 Route 711 
Bolivar , PA 15923-2420 
Phone: (724) 238-9523 
Fax: (724) 238-5127

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 2:09 PM, Steve Silverman <ssilverman@mtlebanon.org> wrote:

Gentlemen,

Below is an e-mail about McNeilly. Please let me know the answer to the question in red type. 

Thanks, 

Steve 

Steve Silverman

Commissioner Ward 2

ssilverman@mtlebanon.org

412-491-3794

 From:
Date: Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:55 AM
Subject: Question regarding 150 yard safety zone -- concern for public safety
To: ssilverman@mtlebanon.org

 Mr. Silverman,

Can you please provide me a detailed answer to the question:

Does the McNeilly Park site violate a PA State mandated 150 yard safety buffer zone?

This is based on the information provided by an individual on Lebo Citizens Blog who said:

"...there is a state mandated 150 yard safety buffer zone. Mt. Lebanon applied for and received a special permit to suspend this buffer zone in Mt. Lebanon. However, that permit does not suspend that state mandated safety buffer zone in adjacent communities. So while the killing corral located in McNeilly Park is in Mt. Lebanon, it is only 300 ft. behind the CITGO and less that far from homes on Donaldon and Highridge Dr. in Baldwin Township. This is in violation of their 150 yard safety buffer zone. WS were able to shoot next to your house, because that did not violate any adjacent communities safety zone. Just because they are killing deer by bait and shoot and not hunting does not automatically suspend this safety zone. It's the special permit that suspends it. And this special permit does not apply to adjacent communities home owners rights. Only they can give permission to violate their 150 yard safety zone, as long as it doesn't impact their neighbors 150 safety zone. Anyway, that's how I interpret the special permit and safety zones. I'm not a lawyer; however, if I'm correct, then the McNeilly Park killing corral is illegal, because Mt. Lebanon did not get the permission from homeowners within this safety zone on Donaldon and Highridge Dr. in Baldwin Township to violate their safety buffer zone, and this violation should be reported to the Pa Game Commission...

March 12, 2015 6:49 PM Another email from Coleman McDonough concerning semi-automatic rifles with .223 caliber ammo:

From: Coleman McDonough [mailto:cmcdonough@mtlebanon.org]
Sent: March 12, 2015 11:54 AM
To:
Cc: Stephen Feller; Commission
Subject: Email to ML Commissioners et al re: semi-auto rifles with .223 caliber ammo

Dear Mr. ____ Your email (March 11 @ 8:43 p.m.) to the Mt. Lebanon Commission (and others) was referred to me for response. I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but I will attempt to explain some of the relative benefits, in the context of the current deer culling operation, to using the semi-auto rifle and .223 ammunition.

As you stated in your email, the March 9th amendment to the PA Game Commission did approve the use of semi-auto rifles in .223 caliber ammunition. And, as you implied in your reference to the relative difficulty associated with shooting six deer with a bolt action rifle compared to a semi-auto, the benefit of the semi-auto is the quick reload of multiple rounds. Thus, the deer can be shot rapidly, hopefully avoiding or mitigating any "panic" on the part of (up to) six deer within a corral when shooting commences.

In regard to your characterization of the "use of military style assault weapons" to kill the deer, the weapons used by Wildlife Specialists have no 3 round burst and/or automatic fire capabilities like military models of the AR-15/M-16/M-4 family. The .223 caliber 55 grain hollow point ammunition has the benefit of expending much of its energy and of breaking up on impact. Testing has shown that the .223 ammo has less penetration than either rifled shotgun slugs or .40 Cal. S&W handgun ammunition. These are some of the reasons so many police agencies, including the Mt. Lebanon Police, have transitioned to the use of M-4 patrol rifles in place of shotguns with rifled slugs and/or buckshot; the use of .223 ammo is deemed relatively safer in an urban environment, given the increased accuracy and the ammunition characteristics noted above.

I cannot comment on your assertion that the Commissioners stated that the contractors would be using bolt action rifles to shoot the deer. I don't recall such a comment, though I can't unequivocally say it did not occur. At one point during the various discussions it may have been noted that if the Game Commission did NOT approve the use of semi-autos, the contractors only option would have be to use bolt-action rifles. But please don't hold me to that recollection, as the lack of a photographic memory is just one of my many faults.

​I hope this information is helpful; if I can be of further service, don't hesitate to contact me. ​

Chief Coleman McDonough
Mt. Lebanon Police Department
cmcdonough@mtlebanon.org