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| Shayne Iverson remains hospitalized after he was struck in the head by a hunter’s bullet in Saltsburg, Indiana County. A medical fund has been started for Shayne Iverson. Donations may be made here. ************************************************************ |
From: Kristen Linfante
<klinfante@mtlebanon.org>
To: egillen476 <egillen476@aol.com>
Cc: Commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>; Stephen Feller <sfeller@mtlebanon.org>; Tom Kelley <tkelley@mtlebanon.org>; Philip Weis <philip.weis@bipc.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 27, 2014 9:46 am
Subject: Re: MORE THAN 300 YARDS AWAY!
Dear Ms. Gillen,
I am, of course, aware of the accident that happened in Indiana County. I am following the story and look forward to additional information as the story unfolds. Of course, I will take it into consideration. That's my job. In the meantime, I have a question for you. How much LESS tragic would it be if that baby were injured or killed in a car crash involving a deer? Do you really think that this scenario is implausible? If you are by chance looking for a new hobby, perhaps you should do a little bit of research on the number of injuries and/or deaths involving cars and deer in the state of PA as compared to the numbers of injuries/death in controlled culls. I am quite sure that there is absolutely no comparison. The risk of being injured or killed by a deer is infinitely higher. I look forward to your findings. However, I won't hold my breath. I presume you have "better" things to do than gather factual data.
I also wanted to point out one final piece of information - perhaps you were distracted or not listening in our last discussion session, but the sole expert in the room suggested that the only way we would be able to reach our goal of a 50% reduction in car accidents is through lethal methods. He was very clear that no non-lethal method (including sterilization alone) would solve the problem - not even with the cooperation of neighboring communities. Again, he is an expert. For me to ignore such information would be inexcusable. You also seem to have this image in your mind that bullets will be ricocheting off of homes in a cull like you see on old cartoons. As our expert pointed out along with many others including our police chief, the bullets disintegrate/crumble on contact. They do not ricochet.
I am sorry to hear that you suffer from nightmares. My only suggestion is to seek psychiatric counseling immediately. My understanding is that it can be very helpful if you can find someone skilled in treating such a condition.
As far as my mother goes - I'll be sure to send her your greetings. You might be disappointed to hear that she is one of my biggest fans even though we disagree on a number of topics - and yes, she knows my stance on deer. I'm sure she will get a good chuckle over your comment. Thanks for sharing it.
Best of luck to you,
Commissioner Linfante
PS-I just painted my basement with the help of the great people at Rolliers. John in the paint department is wonderful and gave me excellent advice. It looks quite nice. I'm not sure what your basement is like, but perhaps they could help you if you are inclined to spend time down there.
Kristen Linfante
Commissioner, Ward 3
(412)561-2790
On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 9:09 AM, 'egillen476@aol.com' via Commission <commission@mtlebanon.org> wrote:
http://www.wtae.com/news/infant-in-pennsylvania-home-grazed-by-bullet/28261712
Commissioners, and Kristen particularly,Do you now understand the magnitude of your decision to fire guns in Mt. Lebanon? A 5 day old infant is in ICU at Children's Hospital after being shot in the head from a bullet fired more than 300 YARDS away from his home.May I remind you of your snarky emails, Kristen, that I published in this post? http://lebocitizens.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-nightmares-have-started-again.htmlThe nightmares HAVE started again. The image of a man standing just a few feet away from me holding a gun and aiming at a deer has been permanently etched in my brain forever. The accident that happened here in Pittsburgh was from ONE bullet. How many deer do you want to kill? Hundreds? Talk about odds, Kristen.At the last commission meeting, Heather Heidelbaugh talked lawsuits and safety concerning our deer. May I remind you that lawsuits can be filed against you, if you do proceed with firing high powered weapons in our densely populated community?I CANNOT live in my basement during your next deer culling. I will not move out of my house over your decision to fire weapons in Mt. Lebanon. I will not lie in bed trembling, as I had for those two winters.You once said during a commission discussion session, Kristen, that your own mother likes to feed deer out of her hand. She must be so proud of you.Commissioners, six other neighboring communities want no part of deer culling. How have you have permitted Kristen to come this far? Shame on all of you.Elaine Gillen
86 comments:
Pretty smart-ass reply from a person that campaigned on Listening, Collaborating and Communicating.
Tell us Ms. Linfante in YOUR research on vehicle accidents with deer-- how many injuries or deaths occurred at speeds under 35 mph?
How many occurred from the deer vs from the drivers ineptitude to control their vehicle.
By all means President, lets do the research.
What is response from Linfante.
Another carrot or stick behavior modification to get residents to build comfy bunkers in their basements?
Let's think about this scenario and this day an age of state troopers being gunned down by a sniper.
You're awakened by a bullet flying thru your window. (I'm not cowering in my basement Linfante!) you sneak a peek of a man approaching your house with a rifle.
Maybe he's coming to apologize, maybe not.
There is a good chance the second gun blast might not be intended for a deer!
It will make for an interesting trial.
Will the schools be on lock down during the cull or will the police surround each school while the deer are shot outside?
Will we cancel field sport games, eating into precious practice and game time? Maybe only when it rains.
Anonymous.
http://www.peta.org/living/other/deer-car-collisions-increase-hunting-season/
That's actually pretty funny, considering she knew you would publish that immediately.
While I tend to agree more with you, Elaine, that Kristen these days -- I must give you both credit for keeping this town quite entertaining. I am almost getting value on my tax dollars.
- Jason M.
Jason, I have cost you nothing in tax dollars. Kristen's legacy will include your Newcomers Tax, PAYT, Deer Killing Tax, and Turf Tax. Are you still finding this entertaining?
Elaine
Thank you for that link 2:44 pm.
For those that don't have the time or effort to read it, here's an excerpt:
"Hunting also increases deer populations—which increases the likelihood that deer-car collisions will occur. While several studies have suggested that sterilization programs may provide an effective, long-term solution to controlling deer populations, hunting just makes the problem worse. It’s been shown, for example, that in hunted populations, does are more likely to have twins rather than single fawns and are more likely to reproduce at a younger age. Immediately following a hunt, there’s less competition for food. The surviving deer are better nourished, which can lead to a higher reproductive rate and lower neonatal mortality."
Read that - several studies suggest sterilization programs provide an effective, long-term to controlling deer populations.
MTL had a cull into 2008. Doesn't seem like a long-term solution, does it?
Here we go again- like the Penn State lone turf 'expert'- the commissioners hire a mouth-piece that spews the info they want the public to hear and that is that. Everyone else's opinion means squat to which Linfante spews smart-ass responses.
From Linfante:
"I also wanted to point out one final piece of information - perhaps you were distracted or not listening in our last discussion session, but the sole expert in the room suggested that the only way we would be able to reach our goal of a 50% reduction in car accidents is through lethal methods. He was very clear that no non-lethal method (including sterilization alone) would solve the problem - not even with the cooperation of neighboring communities. Again, he is an expert. For me to ignore such information would be inexcusable."
To ignore any information would be inexcusable, Commissioner?
Somehow though, it was OK for you to ignore the advice of advisory boards, health experts, and taxpayers.
You arrogantly told your constituents as much since you had the three votes needed to buy turf.
This taxpayer would appreciate it if you just slithered off somewhere and kept quite until your term is up.
What old cartoons is Kristin watching?
Has the commission considered the legal issues associated with culling in the historic district given its status within the National Register of Historic Places? When culls are proposed within such areas, several federal laws come into play, including the National Environmental Policy Act, which mandates, among other things, documentation of efforts mades to use non-lethal management methods. What methods have been systematically identified, employed and documented?
So, to be honest, Elaine - I think it's time to convert this blog from you being the town counter-crier to you being the best town candidate. We need a platform and a donation button.
I understand your efforts in this area may have been unsuccessful in the past, but there have been some seismic shifts in consciousness around here over the past couple of years--due largely to the list of transgressions you mention...
That said, if you run for something, I look forward to lending you my full support. I will work for you. But if this blog remains only as a platform a discontent, I am outtie.
- Jason M.
Good idea, Jason M. There have been many great office holders that lost first time around.
Since the local republicans seem to have a hard time getting their act together in any ward Elaine appears to be a good choice for hers.
Nobody has been more diligent or informed on the issues.
Thank you, Jason and 8:42 PM. Thanks, but no thanks. If I would be fortunate enough to win a seat on the commission, I would be in the minority. I would have to stop blogging. I wouldn't be able to comment on School District affairs.
The sports people would get even uglier toward me. I wouldn't be signing any paper saying that I would be supporting them, that's for sure.
I am not interested in any political seat anymore. I don't want to be told what I can say and what I can't say. The staff would be working against me. I've already asked for board members' resignations. It wouldn't be productive. The D's wouldn't be voting for me in a Primary. I'm not one of the good old boys on the Republican Committee, so I wouldn't get their support. Who WAS the last female Republican elected to a local office?
Sorry.
Elaine
Also, I would not be able to handle the thought that the commission put young and old alike in danger, both on the turf and in the safety of their own homes because of deer culling. I would want to help everyone who has flooding issues.
Brumfield wouldn't acknowlege my presence. Feller never follows up with any of my emails. I wouldn't have the votes to get rid of him. It is embarrassing to hear my heavy breathing during Citizen Comments because I am trying so hard to be calm. No one would be able to hear the meeting!
Besides, I would be sleep deprived with the gun shots outside for half the year. Kristen's term ends December 2015.
Elaine
Come. On. Elaine!
(listen to this and just insert Elaine for Eileen... you will be inspired)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC1vtG3oyqg
This town IS changing (thanks to you and a few others!).
You thought turf was a done deal. IT. IS. NOT.
You think deer is a done deal. IT. WONT. BE.
Come. On. Elaine! Run for Commissioner!
At least... sleep on it!
What will we do for information on what is going on with the commission and school board?
The PIO certainly won't pick up the slack.
Jason wrote, "But if this blog remains only as a platform a discontent, I am outtie."
I want to add something else to your comment. With all the photos and Google Docs that are provided here, let's just say that I get quite a few visitors from outside the bubble.
Elaine
Question for Jason.
If you become an outtie will you vote in elections?
Where will you go for information on the ins and outs of public offices?
I'd love to see Elaine run again, but she made her attempt. How about you? Elaine, can be our mother forever.
"That's my job. In the meantime, I have a question for you. How much LESS tragic would it be if that baby were injured or killed in a car crash involving a deer? Do you really think that this scenario is implausible? If you are by chance looking for a new hobby, perhaps you should do a little bit of research on the number of injuries and/or deaths involving cars and deer in the state of PA as compared to the numbers of injuries/death in controlled culls."
That's a pretty nasty response to a resident that you've taken an oath to represent! A resident that you campaigned to listen to and collaborate with.
Elaine, as a constituent isn't required to do research for you. Her only responsibilty is to offer her perspective or opinion on the operations of the commission.
No one elected you to comment on our basements or give advice on paint selections. If that is what you want to do— get a job as an interior decorated or remodeler, otherwise stick to your "job".
Of course, Ms. Linfante, you on the other hand, have done your due diligence and can tell us EXACTLY how many deaths and injuries have occurred IN MT. LEBANON from deer/vehicle accidents. Not in Pennsylvania... in Mt. Lebanon. You have an entire police department and PIO at your disposal if you can't make it your job to do the leg work. The devil is in the details, Ms. Linfante.
Was alcohol, texting, excessive speed, mechanical failure or driver ineptitude involved in any of those accidents that ocvurred?
Any putz in minutes can pull info about deer accidents in Pennsylvania, commissioner, it doesn't have to be a hobby.
Get off your pompous, arrogant throne and do the job you were elected to do and please knock off the attitude.
@7:52 correction.
Elaine [can't] be our mother forever.
If our diligent, sympathetic commissioner is so concerned about the condition of constituents basements, why doesn't she help those who really need help with theirs?
The ones that flood on a regular basis.
This is how the president of the mtl commission responds to a constituent? Her behavior is unacceptable and very unprofessional. She has proven herself, once again, to be a petty, arrogant, sarcastic b*tch instead of the prim, proper, polite person she tries to portray. Every time someone disagrees with her position her true colors come out. Is this really the best we can do in our once proud community? Linfante is the one who needs to seek psychiatric counseling immediately. Please, Kristen, for the sake of our community, get help now.
Elaine,
I think that you should run for office. You understand the issues and you have demonstrated a genuine love for the community that has been your home for decades.
I also think that the Republican party needs to move on from the establishment candidates, the prominent Mt Lebanon families and the locked inner-circle that has stifled political participation for decades.
The community need a clean perspective. The community needs someone who doesn't feel "obligated" to support certain special interests. The community needs YOU.
-John David Kendrick
I wouldn't say that Kristen needs to seek psychiatric counseling. She doesn't have the temperament to be a commissioner. Kristen is who she is. I still maintain that she needs to go. She is embarassing herself and her party. 11:58 AM, if you think she needs psychiatric help, wouldn't it be better for the sake of our community for her to seek it as a private individual?
Elaine
Thanks, John, but no. January 2016 is a long time away. We have elected officials who will do lots of damage between now and then, if people don't hold them accountable. It is the special interest groups who get these people elected. It is the special interest groups who want to sweep stuff under the carpet.
I am not interested in being controlled by anyone. I contribute to the community in my own way. If people don't like what I say, they can be like Kristen and "don't read the blog."
Elaine
Yes she should seek help as a private individual. I agree with you that she doesn't have the temperament or character to hold public office. She is petty and self-serving. She is incompetent and has proven that she is not up to the job. She demands that a private citizen5120 do research that she, herself, should do. But, what can we do as a community to remove her from office? She won't resign and we can't force her to. We are stuck with her until her term is up and maybe longer if she seeks another term and there isn't a viable opposition candidate.
Isn't Linfante 50% of the Reallebo blog that proclaimed their objective was to build a sense of community?
Anyone think she's been successful?
The Dems are pretty smart and I have heard that they are considering viable candidates for Ward 3. Nothing is set in stone yet, but for sure, Kristen won't be running again, at least with the support of the Democratic Committee.
I have to believe that if enough pressure is placed on Kristen, she will resign, but she will not go without a fight. The D's can't be happy with her right now, with how she is treating constituents, but that is just my opinion. Just watch how she runs the commission meetings. It isn't becoming.
Elaine
For our sakes, I hope the Democratic higher ups like Smith, Miller, Fitzgerald and possibly Wolf have patronage jobs lined up for Linfante, Bendel, Brumfield, Cappucci or Birks after the November election.
We'll need to keep a watch out for that.
Correction @1:34!
[DON'T] have patronage jobs lined up.
Interesting look back 3:56.
I wonder how many of those Ward 3 Republicans that voted for what-was-his-name... Joe DeIlius regret not letting Elaine run head-to-head against Linfante.
Pretty sure the clueless republican committee doesn't since they're no shows in almost every race since.
4:49 PM, in Kristen's mind, I ran against her. See the "igniting" email exchange.
I forgot about that, 3:56 PM. Yeah, those were the days when Republicans were working against me. Many Republicans. I ran a low budget campaign because I think it is a waste of money. I have no regrets. I can say I ran, so let's move on. I think I can offer more blogging. Let's drop it, OK?
Elaine
As a professional musician and ex-teacher, there is an attitude that, among professional musicians, which is: if you are not a professional performer, then you don't count as a musician. The saying goes, "those that can, do, and those that can't, teach." It's an obnoxious attitude. Kristen, you can't "do," so, go back to your performing and teaching. Your incompetence is overwhelming!
Shooting deer in an urban area using firearms is bad business and, in the case of Mt. Lebanon, 100 percent pointless.For starters, when it comes to firearms, I trust nobody but myself. What I mean is, when I'm shooting, I have control of when I fire and where I try to place the round. Im not at all comfortable with some stranger who may or may not have received formal training traipsing around Lebo with a gu n.They likely won't be residents and thus, not invested in the community.So far, there has been no reasonable and fact-based rationale offered for this dangerous idea. If shooting anything in an urban area is wise, why can't I get tags to go after animals in certain parts of the state including in my back yard?For those who regale us with the horror stories of being "threatened" by a deer while walking their dog, I have a suggestion. Walk the other way. I had a Lab and for years we walked the streets around my house as well as spending time in Bird Park. We saw deer pretty often. One night in particular, two curious fawns followed us though they remained about 30 feet away. We would walk, they would walk. We would stop, they would stop. And yes, on occasion, we came across a buck with an attitude. The solution was to remain calm and simply walk away. Deer are migratory. And they are abundant in Pennsylvania. Shooting 20 or 30 in our community will have exactly zero net effect on their population. In fact, the opposite will be the result. "Population management" is utilized across the country for the very purpose of ensuring a healthy and robust population of various animals. Hunters, the true environmentalists in the U.S., know all about it.Imagine seeing some random person with a rifle sneaking around your street. Will you call the police? I might. Of course, if some stranger with a rifle is sneaking around my yard or house, how am I to discern whether that individual is some halfwit hired by the municipality? Could be an actual random nut. Could even be one of the hundreds of terrorists living within our borders. Without clear evidence indicating friend or foe, I will assume (since nobody in their right mind would be dumb enough to approach my house carrying a weapon and dressed like Elmer Fudd) that individual means to do me harm. Thus, I will take appropriate action to defend my health and safety. Do the commissioners really want that scenario to unfold?Further, people who call for radical and violent action typically have no experience committing those acts. Unless and until each commissioner backing this insane and irresponsible proposal personally tracks and kills a deer (and dresses it), there should be no further discussion on this matter.
Mt. Lebanon forbids its citizens to discharge even a low poewer pellet gun.
We live in a society where a kid drawing a picture of gun can't get him suspended or expelled from school.
Yet our commissioner wants to send armed hunters into our streets and yars where many homes are less then 10-15' apart.
If a .177 cal. BB is considered a danger how can we allow bullets, even disintegrating ones, be fired around our homes.
Don't forget those disintegrating bullets will drop a deer dean in its tracks.
Correction @7:42.
[dead] in its tracks.
Wow errors galore at 7:42.
Mt. Lebanon forbids its citizens to discharge even a low [power] pellet gun.
We live in a society where a kid drawing a picture of gun [can] get him suspended or expelled from school.
Yet our commissioner wants to send armed hunters into our streets and [yards] where many homes are less then 10-15' apart.
If a .177 cal. BB is considered a danger how can we allow bullets, even disintegrating ones, be fired around our homes.
Don't forget those disintegrating bullets will drop a deer [dead] in its tracks.
Think that covers all of them. Sorry
Is there a right up anywhere about the goals of the deer cull? Is there only one goal -- the 50% reduction in deer/vehicular collisions?
I am wondering if anyone can direct me to reports of death or serious injury from deer in Mt Lebanon. Are there newspaper right ups? A year something like this happened? Do the pro-deer cull have ER admission notes from these events? I am not saying this to antagonize anyone... I am sincerely curious as to the statistics on this matter. Just looking over the last 12 months and paying attention to events in Mt Lebanon, I am sure there have been many MV accidents, severe pedestrian injuries, deadly drug overdoses, and suicides. If this deer cull is for safety purposes, I just want to know how the threat ranks. I would ask the commission but usually its hard to get answers out of anyone aside from Kelly Fraasch. Thanks.
@9:26 is there a WRITE up of.. not (right). sorry.
Sorry Elaine I agree that something has to be done to control the deer population. My kids are no longer able to play outside in our yard because of the ticks. Our 2 year-old was treated for Lyme disease last June. Guess maybe we should just throw some Frontline Plus on him? Daily we find brown deer ticks crawling on our porch. My neighbor's dogs all have Lyme disease.
I have some numbers that I can share.
About a year ago, after Commissioner Linfante made public claims about deer in Mt. Lebanon posing a serious health and safety problem, I emailed the commissioners and asked them how may people in Mt. Lebanon had been hurt or killed or infected with disease in the prior 12 months because of deer. Several commissioners replied, including Ms. Linfante.
She explained that she was unable to provide reliable numbers because of the strict privacy laws that protect medical records. She did claim, however, to have received calls from "residents who have been injured in car crashes."
I replied to her email, explaining that I wasn't asking for medical records, just a number:
If you don't have a reliable number, can you say for certain that deer have caused at least one resident to have been injured or infected in the last twelve months?
I received no further reply from Ms. Linfante.
But other commissioners had asked the police department to provide what information they had. Here is their summary:
According to our records, in the last 12 month period for which we have information (09/12 to 08/13), the PD was made aware of 45 car/deer crashes. During that same time frame, there were no injuries reported.
I will provide a link to the entire email exchange because it shines light on the way Ms. Linfante thinks about problems like this. She seems to have a hard time separating the size of the problem as it exists in her imagination – "How many injuries are too many? How many deaths??" – from how it exists in reality.
From her more-recent comments, it seems that little has changed.
Thank you Tom for submitting this information.
Looking through the responses this reply from Linfante stuck out and exemplifies the problem that many people have with her.
She writes: "The question, however, is how many cases are too many? How many injuries are too many? How many deaths?"
So far so good, they are excellent questions when you talking about spending $40,000 and up of taxpayers' money.
But here is where Linfante goes off the rails. She ask you: "Do you have a specific threshold to recommend to the commission?"
She never offers any of her own research into the numbers. She doesn't offer what her threshold is. Instead she wonders and ask how many deaths will be acceptable.
Gillen and others basically reply with - duh, none because they're pretty sure there haven't been any.
At this point a meaningful discussion should start, but no, those residents are told to hide in their basements, get a hobby or admonished to do the heavy lifting of finding out the numbers that Linfante should have on hand before demanding a hefty expenditure.
You mention that in the past year there has been 45 deer/vehicle incidents. Sounds like a lot, but what are the details.
Did someone swerve to miss the animal and called the police?
Did the animal craze the vehicle causing little or no damage? How many caused the deer to be put down or the vehicle to be towed?
What was the extent of injuries to driver/occupants?
These are all questions Linfante should have answers to before she ask: "how many people are going to get killed?"
It is Linfante that wants to add a line item to the annual budget. It is her obligation to provide the justification for it.
Taxpayers can't communicate and collaborate with a commissioner that won't deal in facts.
We're seeing the same behavior Linfante exhibited on her RealLebo blog.
Anytime someone offered a comment that was contrary to her opinion, she dismissed them and shut down the conversation.
Mt. Lebanon has far too many Prima Donnas.
From Meriam-Webster:
"Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural prima donnas
Etymology: Italian, literally, first lady
Date: 1782
1 : a principal female singer in an opera or concert organization 2 : a vain or undisciplined person who finds it difficult to work under direction or as part of a team"
12:04 AM, I would not want you to treat your two year old with Frontline Plus, just as I would not suggest that you keep your two year old in the basement and offer decorating tips. There are non-lethal options on the table. They are being considered region-wide.
Tell me, 12:04 AM, do you really want guns being aimed at your house? Of course, your comeback will be that the guns are not being aimed at your house. Oh, but they will be. Do you really want shots to be fired at such close range? We know that a five day old was shot in the head inside his home from a bullet that was fired more than THREE HUNDRED YARDS away. The front of my property is 50 feet. To put it into perspective, that equates to eighteen houses away. Exactly where do you want these deer killed?
In addition, please read the data about ticks. Killing the deer will not solve your tick problem.
Elaine
The problem I suspect is that there are a number of people that don't want their precious landscaping disturbed and are using fearmongering to get their way.
Ticks!!! Culling deer won't even eliminate the deer problem if the information provided by 9/27 2:44's link is accurate. Here again is an excerpt that 12:04 just seems to want to ignore.
"Hunting also increases deer populations—which increases the likelihood that deer-car collisions will occur. While several studies have suggested that sterilization programs may provide an effective, long-term solution to controlling deer populations, hunting just makes the problem worse. It’s been shown, for example, that in hunted populations, does are more likely to have twins rather than single fawns and are more likely to reproduce at a younger age. Immediately following a hunt, there’s less competition for food. The surviving deer are better nourished, which can lead to a higher reproductive rate and lower neonatal mortality."
Dear 12:04 AM, if your property is actually tick infested, I urge you to do two things right now. First, read the Center For Disease Control's advice for Preventing Tick Bites. Second, follow the CDC's recommendation to read Connecticut's short but well-researched Tick Management Handbook, "An integrated guide for homeowners, pest control operators, and public health officials for the prevention of tick-associated disease."
If there are ticks on your property right now, that's a problem that can't be solved by killing deer in the future. You must take responsibility for your family's safety now. Spend 1 hour reading those materials and then you'll be prepared.
In Tom's email exchange, it is brought to light that in the 12 month period discuss there have been no fatalities, no injuries.
Yet, Linfante wants residents to imagine that death and destruction lies behind every bush and curve due to the deer population.
Where does she come up with such a preposterous notion?
Tell us dear commissioner for surely you've done your research as you expect Elaine to do.
1204:.If you have a tick problem, follow the implied advice people like us get when we question this town's spending habits---move somewhere else.
The problem is, the deer do not have any natural predators.
Maybe we could release some mountain lions in the township to reduce the number of deer. I would bet Commissioner Linfante would volunteer to have them released at her property if it reduced the number of deer.
--Tom the Tinker
45 deer /vehicle incidents per year is not a huge number. That is only 1.5 incidents per month. A quick glance at the police blotter indicates that there are between 3-5 car crashes in mtl every single day. Taking the lower number that is approximately 90 per month and 1,080 per year. 90 car crashes due to all causes vs 1.5 caused by deer per month and 1080 vs 45 per year. Looks like we should outlaw driving a car in mt. Lebanon instead of killing deer because a cull will not solve the problem of car crashes here. Deer are only responsible for a very small percentage of the total number of crashes every year.
12;03 you are absolutely correct in your assessment.
45 deer/vehicle 'incidents' aren't as large number as you point out in the big picture.
Buit to the casual reader (or commissioner) that doesn't bother to delve into the real numbers 45 sounds like a big deal.
Hell, we have a commissioner proposing to point a line item in the municipal budgets because someone "might" get killed in a deer accident and she uses data from all over the state that includes turnpike and highway incidents to validate her case.
To bad she doesn't work as hard as you do 12;03 to root out the facts.
Thanks for your numbers.
Ms. Linfante is not a health care provider; thus the laws pertaining to protected health information do not apply to her (HIPPA).
The incidence of Lyme's Disease in Mt Lebanon is a good question for the ACHD. They may not be currently collection this (epidemiological) information but if community policies are being planned due to fears of Lyme's Disease, I believe its reasonable data to request for collection. Of note, the Health Dept intends to come to Mt Lebanon Library some time later this month. Please go to the meeting if you have questions or concerns you want the department to address.
There is a lyme disease vaccine for dogs. Both of my dogs have the vaccine and despite walks in woods and on trails daily, neither one has developed the disease.
You are correct, 12:54 PM. The Health Department is coming to Mt. Lebanon Library on October 30. 6:30pm-8:00pm
Mount Lebanon Public Library
Meeting Room A
ACHD meeting at Mt. Lebanon Public Library
Ask them about ticks and Lyme's Disease and question the safety of artificial turf made from tire crumbs.
Elaine
12:05 - 45 deer related accident per year averages out to 3.75/month not 1.5.
Still not a big number when compared with The total accident number of 90/month.
Dig further and find no injuries or deaths related to any of the deer/vehicle accidents and Linfante's fears of someone dying from crashing into a deer on our streets really is laughable.
Statistically you or your car probably have a greater chance of being hit by a foul ball while watching a game at Wildcat/Middle Field
I'll bet our accident rate would go down dramatically if we culled all those drivers that can't get into a car without a smartphone plastered in their ear.
2:38 PM, i hope your comment doesn't result in another police report filed by Kristen Linfante. She is in rare form today.
Elaine
Elaine, good luck to her with that.
Cull from Dictionary.com
verb (used with object)
1.to choose; select; pick.
2.to gather the choice things or parts from.
3.to collect; gather; pluck.
noun
4.act of culling.
5.something culled, especially something picked out and put aside as inferior.
Why is the culling necessarily with long-range firearms? I believe that deer hunting is legal in Allegheny County, but only with bow, muzzleloader or shotgun. Are we sure that other firearms would be permitted? I am not saying that any cull is without its risks, but I do think that we need to watch what assumptions we make when we discuss these options.
Kim, archery is permitted, but Mt. Lebanon ruled that out since it would be done in broad daylight. They also want to avoid the possibility of deer running around with arrows stuck in them. Too traumatic for children to see as well as for people like me.
Elaine
Kim, regarding a shotgun on this site someone suggest 00 buckshot can travel 750 yards and still have the ability to penetrate some walls.
I think 750 yards is little optimistic, but I'm not that familiar with buckshot.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-ammunition-ballistics/171925-max-effective-range-00-buck-shot.html
On the following site they discuss sabot rounds for shotguns.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/big-buck-zone/2006/04/20-gauge-enough-gun-deer
There is also a comment made about hunting with a bow in that chain.
Regarding muzzleloaders, I have no experience but I would assume accuracy is sacrificed with a muzzleloader for what gain. The bullet from a modern muzzleloader still will travel 90 yards or more and pack a wallop from what I've read.
I love this idea from Avon Lakes, Ohio. http://fox8.com/2014/08/30/councilman-proposes-shooting-deer-with-paintballs-to-keep-them-out-of-yards/
"Councilman proposes shooting deer with paintballs to keep them out of yards"
“Residents have tried banging pots and pans, tried taking hoses and squirting them, and it doesn’t work,” said Councilman David Kos. “So how can we get the deer off the property from a distance and do it safely without significantly injuring the deer, and that’s where the paintball alternative came from.”
The Ohio Department of Natural Resources has had a lukewarm reaction.
Kos said an ODNR official said he didn’t want to take calls about polka-dotted deer running around town because they’d been repeatedly hit with paint balls.
But, regarding paint balls versus bows and arrows, Kos said it’s better to take 100 calls of polka-dotted deer than one call of a deer running down the street injured by an arrow."
I think it's a great idea, we could make the deer an integral part of Plein Air.
This paintball idea isn't so crazy. Think about it.
We use flourescent colors which make the deer visible at night. Therefore reducing all those fatalities Kristen thinks are going to happen.
Plus, no more broken ankles for the woman surprised by 7 deer on her front lawn.
Homeowners can get proactively involved in protecting their scrubs rather than passing the 'buck' off to armed mercenaries.
Finally our little tots will actually believe Lebo is populated by rainbow colored unicorns.
Fakelebo's elders ought to love this plan!
Everybody's happy and nobody gets shot.
Mt. Lebanon will require a special ordinance, permit and fee for paintball and use the proceeds to fund more artificial turf fields.
Paintball would also reveal the low number of deer running around.
Some people may think Mt. Lebanon has a deer problem, but I think it has a SPEEDING problem.
Not only do drivers ignore the posted speed limits, but many think nothing of parking every which way on our streets. Some park in front of fire hydrants; some park the wrong way.
It didn't use to be this way when I was growing up here. All cars were off the streets by midnight and no one parked the wrong way or blocked hydrants, driveways or sidewalks.
Police, please start issuing parking tickets for infractions. As for the deer, my view is they have just as much right to be here as we do.
I'm surprised the commissioners haven't thought of imposing an $8/month "You have deer in your yard" fee.
They got away with a "rainwater fee" so what's the difference with deer.
Nature dumps rain or deer on your lawn you've got to pay a fee, right? They have to control both.
5:53 it would appear you're right if we do a count of the number of "Drive like your kids live here" signs.
Which people ignore as they rat race through neighborhoods.
Thanks, Tom M for the data and the email exchange information from last year that you shared. I hope that Mt Lebanon collects the data from this year, and continues to do so every year so that good decisions about this matter can be made. The characteristics of each accident is relevant, too, and should also be mapped.
Thanks for your support, 6:35 p.m. I agree it's really sad that parents have to erect no speeding signs so that their kids can play safely in their own yards.
In my opinion, some of the worst residential streets for speeding cars are Beadling, Lindendale, Woodland, Scrubgrass, Hoodridge, Roycroft, Kelso, Bower Hill and North Meadowcroft. Unfortunately, there are many more.
Funny you should mention Roycroft, 11:37 PM. Kristen Linfante was on a roll today when she wrote in one of her emails to me that she "had a baby [deer] shot right in front of my [her] house a while back after it had been hit by a car."
A baby shot? OMG! Kristen wrote back, "I thought it would be obvious that I was referring to a baby deer. I'm sorry if I was unclear . To be perfectly clear - a police officer had to come and shoot a baby deer dead in front of my house because it was badly injured by a car that hit it."
I have had some close encounters with cars speeding over the crest of the hill in front of Kristen's house. How about some speed bumps on Roycroft, Kristen? Or is this part of your deer culling plan?
Elaine
I think Kristin creates her own scenarios for her own convenience.
Constance Spicuous Consumption
What does it say about a community that has to erect speed bumps all over the place?
Can't the residents read 25 mph and school zone signs?
It is like the neccessity of erecting "No idling" signs. Any fool that reads their owners manual or "Motor Trend" knows you waste gas by sitting in a car with engine running.
But here in the bubble we must be lead with either a carrot or a stick to do the right thing.
As for Kristen's baby deer. Is she proposing for the cull that we ram deer with our cars so the police can make an easy shot from a few inches away as opposed to a hunter taking a shot at a mobile deer from yards away? Not sure what her point would be.
Constance, I would think it would be relatively easy to check Linfante's scenerios.
For instance the baby deer. If a MTL fired his weapon anywhere in the municipality one would assume there is a report filed somewhere.
If we get the date it might tell us something. If this deer accident happened in late '08 or '09 that would be a good indication that culling won't solve the deer/vehicle issue. We had a cull in '08.
What calibre bullet do the police use to shoot a deer in front of your house? How do they stop the bullet from bouncing somewhere they don't want it to go?
News said today the baby will be blind. Heartbreaking.
Family says Indiana County infant hit by bullet will be blind
It truly is heartbreaking, 8:45 PM.
Elaine
Oh, this is so sad about this baby! I will keep him and his family in my thoughts and prayers.
The unfortunate lesson to be learned from this tragedy (pay attention Linfante) once a bullet leaves a gun barrel it may hit something not intended, especially in a resident area.
We can't make a comparison to someone dying or being injured in a Lebo deer/vehicle accident since there's never been one.
We can't say the same thing about
How about trying some natural deterrents? According to Google, there are quite a few of them that are safe and not harmful.
I remember sticking mothballs in my garden years ago to deter rabbits, etc. They worked and evaporated, too.
I agree ML has a speeding problem. Something should be done about it.
Yep, and the logo was done by the same person who did the awesome Brewfest logo.
Elaine
Yep, the logo was done by "she whose name shall not be written."
5:49, as usual you have the facts wrong!
Clever, 5:49 PM, but you don't have "factual data." Both Brewfest and the Radar for PA logos were done by my son, Joe. But thank you for noticing.
No response from any commissioners concerning the email I sent to them earlier.
"Commissioners,
A Lebo Citizens reader sent me this link. What Governments Need to Know About the New Municipal Advisor Rule
While it may or may not apply with our financial advisors, it certainly applies to our municipal engineer and our deer management advisors.
"entrusting a [financial] professional to give advice to a municipality when that professional could potentially benefit a great deal if the municipality enters into the deal creates an inherent conflict interest."
Elaine Gillen"
While this thread is about Kristen Linfante's snarky response to me about my fear of killing deer in Mt. Lebanon neighborhoods, I don't "have 'better' things to do than gather factual data." The new law illustrates my point about creating an inherent conflict of interest when asking Tony DiNicola his opinion about deer culling in Mt. Lebanon. It is what he loves to do. Did we all forget the video of him suffocating deer which I wrote about a year ago? Our commissioners want to do business with these people?
The deer expert mentioned in Kristen's email to me is also in the deer culling business. Wildlife Management Deer Population Control Conflict of interest again?
Elaine
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