Remember this blog posting? High School Traffic Alert It was an eblast from the PTSA, the same folks urging people to vote a certain way in the last election. The traffic alert didn't sit well with me, but it seems it didn't sit well with the Mt. Lebanon Police Department either. The following email was sent out this week by Chief McDonough. Thank you, Chief McDonough for addressing this irresponsible notice sent out by the PTSA.
From: Coleman McDonough
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 2:40 PM
To: Cheryl Hunsberger
Cc: Ruby Kang; TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net; Mike Gallagher; Brian McFeeley
Subject: Mt. Lebanon High School PTSA
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2012 2:40 PM
To: Cheryl Hunsberger
Cc: Ruby Kang; TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net; Mike Gallagher; Brian McFeeley
Subject: Mt. Lebanon High School PTSA
Folks: Someone was kind enough to bring the below message (posted by the PSTA) to my attention this afternoon. I’d like to correct some of the misinformation that was found in the message, and I’d also like to express my disappointment with the message.
What’s true is that Mt. Lebanon Police officers ARE citing drivers who have been stopping at locations on Lebanon Ave. where such stopping is prohibited. We are NOT being “forced” into citing violators because of a single resident’s complaint; we are instead responding to the safety concerns of the entire community. We began citing drivers this morning because drivers, in spite of past warnings by uniformed officers, continue to disregard the officers’ warnings and disobey the lawfully posted signs, thus creating additional traffic congestion during rush hour when the municipality’s roadways (especially Cochran Rd.) are already above their capacities. The resulting congestion creates hazards well beyond the immediate area near the high school. This congestion could be mitigated if parents use the designated drop off points and traffic patterns that have been repeatedly published by the school district.
I appreciate your efforts to educate parents on the new traffic patterns and to counsel “patience and cooperation.” I do not appreciate the PSTA publicly singling out one resident as the cause of Mt. Lebanon Police enforcement action. Hopefully you will never be in the position where you bring a neighborhood problem to the attention of the police, and some well meaning organization publicly “blames” you for any related enforcement action.
I’d like to believe that the Mt. Lebanon Police Department, the Mt. Lebanon School District and the Mt. Lebanon PSTA will continue to partner together to enhance the general safety of the community. I do not believe the tone of the below posted message reflects such a partnership. I hope you appreciate my concerns and we can continue to work together to alleviate what will continue to be an admittedly difficult traffic situation. Rest assured, the Mt. Lebanon Police will continue to act toward that end.
Chief Coleman McDonough
Mt. Lebanon Police Department
Parents beware: The Mt. Lebanon Police are now ticketing cars that stop on Lebanon Avenue in the morning during student drop-off. 2 officers ticketing 4 cars this morning has been witnessed. Brian McFeeley has stated that the high school is not driving this - the Police Department has gotten complaints from a resident that lives on Lebanon, forcing them into a position of enforcing the posted "No Stopping" signs. Please go to http://www.mtlsd.org/highschoolrenovation/hstrafficupdates.asp for the most up to date information. Thank you for your patience and cooperation!
71 comments:
May I add my thanks to Chief McDonough for correcting another case of "We vs. Them."
I, for one, am weary of those who portray every incident as an assault against "the kids" and "the project". It's just another way to corral people into their bullying "group think" mode.
Those whose homes are located near the high school put up with enough in non-construction times and shouldn't be criticized for protecting their properties.
Thanks to the police for trying to do what they can to alleviate a trying traffic situation.
Maddie Miller
This could have been a real teaching moment - where the PTSA asked parents to be good citizens, respect the posted signs and show an interest in pedestrian safety.
But instead ... The PTSA e-mail starts off ... "Parents beware" ... and it goes downhill from there.
This is a teaching example of what can happen to an otherwise honorable organization like the PTSA, be it local community or even a government at state or federal levels, when the wrong people achieve so-called leadership (control) positions !
Bill Lewis
Typical PTSA, look for someone to blame, attack,and crudify.
Infer that some lonely indiividual, some disgruntled resident has made "their" lives hell. Start the witch hunt PTSA, rather than as Mr. Matthews start out by being good citizens. No instead lets find that wolf, lets get him, lets hang 'em, lets kill him.
Remember the Paul Simon song discussed here some months ago about "Pigs, Sheeps and Wolves"
Oh yeah, this PTSA is the same group that wants to disagree without being disagreeable.
You did right Chief, by putting out the real facts - thank you.
Giffen Good
Four women resigned from PTA Council a while back. We may never know why they did, but it was shortly after the PTA eblast in the fall concerning the election. This might explain the exodus of the four out seven council members. I think it is time for their charter to be revoked.
Elaine
I decided to look to see who the high school PTSA officers are, so here is the link. 2011 - 2012 High School PTSA Officers
Well lookee here. Sheryl Cohen is second VP at the high school and is PTA Council President. She was also Josephine Posti's treasurer of the Posti/Gardner campaign.
Elaine
Thank to the Police Chief for exposing these "District Assets" as a pack of liars! We would be a better District without the HS PTSA or the PTA Council.
John
For those of you not familiar with the worst episode in MLSD history, it may interest you to know that the PTA Council officers were directly responsible for the personal attacks on former Supt. Marge Sable. And it was the Council that coordinated the eventual departure of Sable.
Just some food for thought...more to follow.
Capt. Anonymous.
Looking forward to that , Capt. Anonymous.
Elaine
Capt. anonymous,
If so, then which school board director(s) at the time wanted Sable gone? The PTA council certainly did the dirty work for board directors leading up to the Nov. 8th election. it's common knowledge, though, which directors were involved in that.
Wilma Zellers
Wilma,
Who were the Council members in 2004?
Did any resign?
Sally Adams
I would like to know which PTA person wrote that eblast. We had Karen Morris and Sheryl Cohen (PTA Council President) apologizing for the Bill Zellers email being circulated. PTA Apologizes to Cannon
Sheryl Cohen is still PTA Council President. Besides being Josephine Posti's Campaign Treasurer, she was on baggage-free Linfante's campaign committee.
Update on rec bond debate
Sheryl had four women resign during her term as PTA Council President.
Any more official apologies coming for the latest PTSA eblast, Sheryl? Certainly one is owed to the Mt. Lebanon Police Department.
Elaine
Elaine,
You really need to learn to disagree without being disagreeable. And it would appear the hate you had in your heart is beginning to wane a bit. Maybe you can borrow some from Jo or even Mary Birks.
I knew these people were collectively a bunch of dimnwits. Bvut to have the PTSA distribute some childish and obviouslky inaccurate email like they did is almost beneath them all--almost. And I thought, according to one unnamed Lebo resident there weren't any traffic issues? In fact, didn't the Dear Leader Jo-Li-Sum gleefully report to the community the same thing? So Jo Posti is calling our police chief a liar? Oh my word.
Elaine, your missing the other committee members on your "baggage-free" commissioner's campaign...Jo Posti, Sue Rose, and Mary Birks. 3 school board directors.
Most of the others were PTA moms including Mrs. Cohen. Incestuous. Alice Barbara Toklas
William, I don't think Josephine is calling the chief a liar. Josephine and her father ARE on record for telling the chief that there are no traffic problems at the high school.
As far as hate in my heart, I was not aware of it until Josephine pointed it out to me. Glad to hear it is waning.
Elaine
Perhaps the SB should consider hiring the police department to help fill their budget shortfall. They are the real experts at generating revenue at the tax payer's expense.
Maybe they could alleviate the problem by simply placing a squad car on Lebanon with their "dummy" officer inside?
Jay Neff
Jay, the police department may have generated revenue at your expense, but they haven't generated any revenue at my expense.
Elaine
Jay, after some consideration, you might be onto something. We could have a school board "dummy" officer sitting in the squad car.
There are enough to set up a schedule.
Elaine
Jeff, since you wrote dummy in quotation marks, Was that an intentional slur on our police officers just doing their duty?
If so, you're the "dummy."
Dick Saunders
Relax Dick. The MLPD actually used to have a "dummy" officer that they often used as a speeding deterrent on Cedar Blvd.
Come to think of it, I believe the senior class of 1991 actually stole it from them.
Jay Neff
Another fine example of our privileged Lebo citizens having fun at others expense.
Thank you, Jeff
Dick Saunders
You are right again, Jay. I did some research and the mannequin was stolen March 30, 1991. I thought you might have been from the class of '91, but the alumni directory shows that you graduated the year before. ;>)
I would think the logical solution to all this would be that parents observe the no parking or stopping signs that are in place to keep our children safe. As Bill Matthews stated, it would have been so much better for the PTSA to send that message instead of the disrespectful one that we have all read.
Still waiting for a PTSA apology. I am not holding my breath since neither former school board director James Fraasch nor the 4000 concerned citizens/fear mongers got one for being right on the money.
Elaine
See what happens when you raise a generation of PTA to believe their is no right or wrong!
John Ewing
So, pray tell, how does this conversation regarding dummies improves the situation in our community?
I suppose you're right Chuck, but where were you BEFORE or at least when the PTSA sent out their email?
As Mr. Matthews pointed out this could have been a real teaching moment and a call for good citizenship. Instead we're discussing "dummies."
So regarding how does 'all' this help the community, contact the PTSA leadership with your question and report back their response, if you please.
Has they simply asked their constituency to follow posted signs this conversation would never had occurred.
Just as, had the board heeded Mr. Fraasch's and Hart's warnings of budget shortfalls, and acted accordingly we might not be analysing the list of cuts.
Dick Saunders
I agree, Chuck. This is a bad situation for our community. What are we teaching our kids? Disobey traffic signs. Disrespectful emails by the PTSA making our police department the heavies. The high school is not "driving this." Singling out law abiding citizens who are concerned with the safety of our students.
To contact PTSA leadership, here is the link to the PTA Council officers. However, the eblast was sent out by the high school PTSA. Contact information for that group is found here.
Elaine
I wonder whether to get in on this,but as a resident and parent of a high-schooler who also happens to be a PTSA Officer (Recording Secretary), I will attempt to answer some of the questions. First, Lebanon Ave. had been used as a drop-off area long before the construction began. Many drivers had "gotten away with it" for quite a while, and I saw this e-blast as fair warning that that would no longer be the case. I am sorry that the Mt. Lebanon Police did not take the warning well - I truly do not believe that there was anything malicious intended. Neither the PTSA or administration recommended Lebanon as an alternate drop-off, but as people's usual pathways are blocked, new ones are searched for. Traffic is getting crazier with road closures, but folks need to adjust. Lawfully, of course.
Second, I do not myself know of all of the reasons for those who resigned from PTA Council. The cases that I am aware of are personal and are completely unrelated to any of the issues you are guessing at.
To dredge up the Sable episode is not quite fair - I doubt that too many involved on Council at that time are still active.
Let's all step back once and a while and think better of folks!
You really missed the chief's main point didn't you Ms. Ressler - " I do not appreciate the PSTA publicly singling out one resident as the cause of Mt. Lebanon Police enforcement action. Hopefully you will never be in the position where you bring a neighborhood problem to the attention of the police, and some well meaning organization publicly “blames” you for any related enforcement action."
Now then your kumbaya moment is really quite sweet, but how come there was no - Josephine, you really should think better of folk, when she accused Elaine of having hate in her heart?
How about the malicious eblast regarding board candidates families last November?
Then there's the false Almanac dissection of Mr. Taylor's credentials and experience by our board president?
How about Mr. Gardner's accusation that certain people were hijacking the community?
You're right, of course, we should think better of folks - it's just that this sudden holier than thou attitude is a little transparent.
Show us the way, silence the disrepect before it happens, Kim.
Giffen Good
Kim,
What did you do to stop the distribution by the PTA organizations, of which you are a representative, of the malicious pre-election e-mail that broke IRS rules and were civil violations as well? Do you consider youself a law abiding citizen? If you participated in it or did nothing to stop it, you were/are part of the problem. My understanding is that PTA resignations occurred because some PTA officers had character, backbone, and principles.
So, what was your role in it? Did you go along or try to intervene as a good citizen should?
-Charlotte Stephenson
SUPERINTENDENT released and paid $500,000 in 2004.
A CONTRACT EXTENSION was first passed in 2004.
Walton stated the NEW HIGH SCHOOL might cost $100,000,000 in December 2004 after Hoffman confirmed a much lower number in November 2004 that were printed in the PG in October 2004. The recording of this meeting is in the “Podcast Classics” Section on the Lebo Citizens website.
DeJong is hired in 2006 and recommends a building of 548,000 square feet – larger than the existing HS for fewer students.
Architect and PlanCon consultant inflate enrollment
figures by 10%
Posti’s running mate leads the BOSN group and Option Two is selected at $130,200,000.
Board Members Birks and Posti speak in support of the $113,200,000 HS at the Act 34 Hearing.
Walton and two teachers’ kids serve on the Master Design Team. The Superintendent does not give the Minutes of these meetings to the Board .
The CONTRACT EXTENSION is renewed in 2010 and spikes the pensions of the older teachers leaving the younger teachers to pay for the building.
Board Budget Cuts target older teachers who are retirement and pension eligible.
Board hides List of retirement eligible teachers from public view in Budget Cuts.
And you say there is nothing wrong, Kim? Did you ever think it through or did you just behave like any other District Asset?
John Ewing
Kim,
Don't let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.
John Wooden
John Wooden,
Why not encourage Kim to answer the legitimate questions posed to her as a representative of this organization? Do you need to see the evidence of what was done? Are you also part of the problem? Your words are meaningless.
-Charlotte Stephenson
Dick,
Perhaps you are missing my point. As a regular reader of this blog, I have observed that its tone and content has shifted towards a more pointed and whiny site. There is a lot of name calling and singling out of individuals, especially from the pseudonyms and anonymous contributors.
I have attempted to make this point on at least two occasions. However, my comments were never posted.
So, just for clarification purposes, my comment from earlier today was rhetorical in that this thread is no more than a trivial grousing session with no apparent purpose, other than to discredit individuals and/or organizations.
There are much more substantive issues associated with the construction project. Issues vary in scope from finincial ramifications to constructon equipment that is being maneuvered as students walk along Stadium and Horsman Drives.
As I have stated in the past, this blog can be a very useful tool to make our elected officials more in tune with the community and accountable in their positions. Petty ax-grinding and name calling, especially from falsely named or anonymous posters discredits the integrity of this venue.
Chuck, I have published every comment that you have submitted.
Elaine
Chuck, you make an excellent. But... But, as in the letter from the PTSA was it really necessary to say anything about an individual complaining to the police? Why not a letter that said, traffic congestion and pedestrian safety and the lack of respect for posted regulations mandates police enforcement of no stoping regs. Please obey same and you'll avoid a ticket. No they had to create a villain, where the chief declares there is none.
Such has been the history that brings us to the name calling and whining. Remember "What the Kluck" for instance.
I support your call for focusing on the issues and financial items that are the real issues. If you think you'll get a better reception and more honest response from the board I wish you luck and good will. Go for it, I'm sure Elaine would welcome the investigation and fact finding you may want to contribute.
Dick Saunders
Chuck,
Don't you think it's time for the Mt. Lebanon PTA organizations (and school board members involved) to take responsibility for their attempts to discredit individuals prior to the November 8th election while demonstrating the very behavior you are complaining about? (e.g. name calling and singling out of individuals) Maybe that would be a good start to productive dialogue.
Residents who attempted to raise the very concerns during the past 2 and ½ years over the substantive issues you raised, like requesting a budget be established not to exceed $75 Million (4,000 residents), in addition to the construction and parking issues raised by several informed residents, were clearly ignored by the Mt. Lebanon Board of School Directors and other authorities.
Here is a recent example: I sent e-mail to the Mt. Lebanon Board of School Directors Board on April 4 asking this question:
“Relative to your decision to spend $41,000 on a fundraising feasibility study, Mrs. Posti was quoted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on March 20 stating “…a donor pledges $10,000 toward the study's cost once tax and legal issues get worked out this week." and the article states "She said the donor should be revealed in the next few days.”
Will you please tell me what your investigation of the tax and legal issues around this has revealed and also who the donor is?”
It is a perfectly reasonable question to ask given the fact that the residents are stakeholders in this unusual expenditure of tax dollars and I have received no response whatsoever. So, while you are not in agreement with the tone or content of this blog, what suggestions do you have for the many residents who have hit the wall in dealing with the Board and are completely frustrated with the lack of representation not to mention responsiveness we should expect?
-Charlotte Stephenson
I like giving everyone an opportunity to speak. While I understand the frustration of many towards the PTSA it's time to move on.
The PTSA has to realize that this is no local bloggers who criticized them, but instead the chief of police who has called them on their tactics.
Isn't there a budget coming due soon from the school district?
Albert Brennaman
Dick,
To your point, I completely agree with your position. There are no villains in this case. I believe that only a handful of motorists were pulled over. In my opinion, a poorly designed and continuously changing traffic pattern had a lot to do with creatinag the situation. Continuous blast emails tend to get ignored. Perhaps, the traffic patterns would be better absorbed if there were proper signage and direction. I cannot condone the PTSA message, as it was nothing more than conjecture.
Charlotte, your point is well-taken. Our elected officials are narrow-minded and agenda driven. They tend to ignore a large cross section of their stakeholders and lack common sense. Previous SB members who predicted this dilemma had their message muted by either financial disclosure matters, or by leaving office mid-term.
As a parent of one MTL graduate and one current high school student, I am highly satisfied.However, I am concerned that the district will not be able to sustain this high level due to mismanagement and superfluous agendas. The same can be said for the municipality. We have a lot of great recreational and educational resources in our community. Our focus needs to be placed on holding these standards. Fancy facilities do not equate to better outcomes. However, facilities must be maintained and their use needs to be maximized. Every other issue and distraction removes focus from this imperative.
Elaine,
I forgot to mention your comment about my posts. I sent two in when we had the discussion about the Athletic Associations. I took exception to the "King" comment. Perhaps there was an error in my process. Thanks for looking into this matter.
Chuck,
Mrs Stephenson makes a very valid point in her question about tax and legal issues. The District is asking high net-worth individuals to make donations to the school. However, we don't even know whose legal and tax issues need to be worked out. Are they issues of the Donor or the District? As a supporter of the fund raising Study, I am very hesitant to consider a gift until I know whose has the legal issues. I don't want to find out next year when I am doing my taxes that a donation has been given to an organization that has tax and legal issues.
Unfortunately, the board president has responded with no answer, My experience is that folks who have something to hide usually don't say anything. Just ask Jon Corsine, What happened to the client money at MF Global?
John Ewing
Chuck, sad to say that wouldn't be the first time that happened. Blogger can be squirrelly. If you wish, put it in the form of a letter to the editor and email it to me. I will post it. Sorry about that. Thanks for mentioning it.
Elaine
John,
I understand your position on the tax & legal matters. In fact, I am in agreement with you. We need to understand that this is new ground for all parties involved. Perhaps, there is no answer to Ms. Stevenson's question at this time. No response from an elected official is unacceptable. If there is no answer, common courtesy is to convey this message. Now, we have introduced another credibility matter into the mix. I go back to my original message, which states that there is a huge lack of common sense prevalent in our elected officials.
Chuck,
You and I see eye to eye. I share your opinion that the high level educational outcome we both enjoyed with our kids will not be sustainable and I am also satisfied with the quality experience both of my kids received.
Since the Board initiated the concept of a fundraising campaign to make up for their bloated budget and associated shortfall I believe the questions I recently posed are legitimate and should be answered. Mrs. Posti made public statements to news media about this new direction for revenue generation, while spending more money that she doesn’t have, and it appears that she didn’t her facts straight when she made them. It has now been three weeks since those public claims were made and we don’t know any more today than we did then.
If she has the facts, then she should share them with her stakeholders. If she doesn’t, then it was irresponsible to make those statements and this becomes an issue of credibility. There have been many other erroneous statements coming from this Board, like those in Ed Kubit’s glossy flyer, that have mislead our residents. How can the Board be held accountable?
As for common courtesy of a reply, that went out the window a long time ago which is why this is the first attempt I have made to contact the Board in a very long time.
-Charlotte Stephenson
Chuck, you and I have reached at least a position where could possibly work together to arrive at solutions to problems. That is the way a community should work.
The anger, name calling and whining that occurs here didn't show it's ugly bead out of thin air.
Go back and view events. The snickering, interruptions from select members of the audience when Elaine presented the petition to the board. Who ever does that to anyone, but even the president did little to admonish the disorderly.
Yet, these same characters will proclaim how polite they are.
How about the calls for a board members head, the piling on because he attempted to alert the community to the financial crisis we are in now.
The demonstration against a commission because he attempted to hold a "town hall". A demonstration not over what might come out of it, but because they didn't have a dominant presence in the audience. No one said they couldn't hold one. It speaks volumes that the event they held didn't address community problems, it was rather a discussion on being disagreeable without being disagreeable.
Now onto one issue facing the district - fundraising.
I have no problem if someone wants to give money. But, it's been my experience that "there is no free lunch." There have already been suggestion of rewarding donors with preferential parking, preferred seating at HS events. This seems to go against everything a free public education stands for. What's next preferred teachers, preferred curriculum, preferred athletics. To me it's a scary slope, but the board in it's usual haste, is rushing into just that.
Dick Saunders
There have already been discussions as to how they will reward donors. Preferential parking, seating at school events!
Dick,
The fundamental issue here is that the community does not have the financial wherewithal to support large-scale capital projects. Now, the elected officials are scrambling to find a way to pay for the projects. This is a classic case of ready, fire, aim. However, the elected officials are in office because hey were democratically elected. In short, the majority won.
We, as the vocal minority cannot be perceived as grumbling malcontents. Therefore, it is incumbent on us to present our arguments in a straightforward manner to affect change. I know that in the past, there have been sever al attempts to do this, but in most cases, they were not planned and executed well. The Town Hall meeting was by invitation. Poor manners at public meetings are a display of arrogance and ignorance, though it is also a display of majority rule. The community has gotten what it has deserved in the form of local government. Many of our local leaders are imbued with a sense of priveledge as MTL residents. Unfortunately, time has caught up to us. We are now struggling to maintain our position in the area. Public displays such as new facilities make things seem better. However, we are losing sight of the important issues. These include fiscal responsibility, educational excellence and property value enhancement.
All true, Chuck and I'm not trying to start an argument, but you made an appeal to focus on the imperatives.
I believe the "name-callers and whiners here" have been trying to do just that for years, focus on the imperatives . Unfortunately, they run up against brick walls and stonewalling.
I agree with everything that you wrote in your 10:53 am comment. I do not see though any solutions. You mentioned these two things earlier.
"There are much more substantive issues associated with the construction project. Issues vary in scope from finincial ramifications to constructon equipment that is being maneuvered as students walk along Stadium and Horsman Drives.
As I have stated in the past, this blog can be a very useful tool to make our elected officials more in tune with the community and accountable in their positions."
What are your substantive issues on the project and possible solutions. Then how do we make our elected officials tune in?
I'm on board, so far you seem level headed, where do we go from here?
DIck Saunders
Dick,
Although half-baked, my thoughts on actions and solutions are shown below:
Utilize this site to mobilize support from its readership. There appears to be several named and anonymous sources that have a thorough understanding of the SB & Municipal process as well as factual material that details our current situation.
Gather all of the facts and projections and organize them for some type of PR campaign. The delicate part of this step is to segregate the facts from the personalities involved.
Develop a presentation that details the situation along with possible remedies. For example, detail how we could utilize current recreational facilities in a more cost-effective manner. Another could be to present cost-savings opportunities to the SB.
Request to present this material at SB or Municipal meetings. If refused, conduct open sessions to make the presentations.
Try to gain some small victories to gain momentum and develop awareness.
Develop and run a slate of reform candidate alternatives for local offices. This needs to be done in the accepted structure of the election process, not on an ad hoc basis.
Continue to use the internet for educational purposes.
This is a general framework, but you can get the idea. Basically, this type of movement needs to play by the rules and maintain a level head. Bomb-throwing is not a good strategy for progress. It only hardens positions and polarizes the community.
Your thoughts?
Chuck, here's my thoughts for what they're worth.
Gathering and running a slate of candidates that win will be the only way to really induce change.
An attempt at exactly that transpired in the last election. Debate all you want as to whether it was a muddled effort, one thing we know for certain there were illegal election activities by the PTSA and their cohorts that influenced the results.
So, I would hope there would be no need for bomb throwing, experience tells me otherwise.
As for presaging material to the board or commissioners, that is exactly what the petition was created for. The reply was we hear you, but we have 4,001 people that agree with us. Though we never saw evidence of 400 proponents, let alone 4,001!
How do you deal with that?
Get 10,000 signatures, they say they have 11,000.
Several people came up with a town hall. The venue had limited seating so sure they invited their friends. But they also invited stalwart foes that had the same respected opportunity to speak as anyone in the room. Did the effort have it's flaws, most certainly, but I never saw a better one arranged by the critics.
And furthermore the Act 34 hearing was designed to do all you are suggesting. Give stakeholders a chance to chime in on the project.
But how does that work when z board member announces their vote before the hearing even starts?
So, I agree with everything you propose, but much of it has already been tried and dismissed by the people in power.
The only suggest I see working is creating Abelard of candidates. That too is loaded with problems inthat the seated officials are either entrenched in the two parties or their cohorts are.
Dick Ssunders
Sorry for typos and odd words. No matter how hard I try to proofread, spell check seems to override on this tablet.
Dick Saunders
Dick,
History is history. A compelling argument and some gumption are required. We are too late to stop the renovation train. However, we still can focus on the budget. Once the community sees the effects of the new assessments coupled with the increased millage, there will be some enthusiastic converts. A good plan to reduce costs and maintain high service levels is a good starting point.
Chuck some more evidence as to why I don't appear overly receptive to your suggestions.
You say present cost-saving opportunities to the board. That is certainly a great idea and several whiners here have offered thoughts on exactly that.
But why does the board have a list of 168(?), but they'll only let the community see 44?
Isn't that a little myopic? Why should the stakeholders have to create a list, that may or may not duplicate the afministration's list. Isn't that an inefficient system?
Why not let everyone see every idea, perhaps one of the hidden ones will turn on a lightbulb leading to an idea no one's thought about.
I like what you're proposing Chuck, but the district is working from a stance of exclusivity rather than inclusivity. Until that change is adopted the stone throwing will continue.
Dick Saunders
Anon 2:29 - "history is history"?
How about: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" — Santayana
Dick Saunders
Dick,
The alternative is to do nothing and have the bureaucrats have their way with us, as is at present.
That one I don't understand Chuck. Do nothing? I thought the bloggers here were being accused of doing too much of the wrong thing.
Which by the way I'm not sure is a correct assumption.
I may be wrong, but Elaine's posting of the possible dismissal of the community service staffer may have prompted the student participation.
So, pig headed as we bloggers may be, I wouldn't call it nothing.
When Chuck, did your argument become — there's my way or there's no way?
Perhaps that's is our first obstacle. Figuring how to work for a common cause together.
Dick Saunders
Dick, I don't believe that is what Chuck said. He wrote:
"The alternative is to do nothing and have the bureaucrats have their way with us, as is at present."
Elaine
Dick,
You have taken this to the farthest extreme. You specifically asked me what I would do to address the situation, and I responded. You then dismissed my plan with a "been there, done that" comment.
Now that you don't agree, you say that I am not open to suggestions.
My position has been that there has been a lot of complaining on this site. Many xactions are suggested, but little is accomplished. Apparently, all of the arguments and actions that happened in the past were not compelling enough to sway the majority opinion. You can say all day that the deck was stacked, but the simple fact is that the actions and tactics were not effective.
I specifically asked you for your opinion on how to proceed. All I got back was your rear view mirror list of what was done in the past. I ask again, what is your plan to address the situations in our community?
As far as the community admin is concerned, I find it interesting that there is so much talk of "life lessons" being posted. What type of lesson is it to do community service for NHS hours? I will volunteer if there is something in it for me! I volunteer for my community and church related functions. The rest of my family does the same. We don't need to get direction from a community service rep, nor do we expect any other reward than helping others. Perhaps this is where we get our entrenched sense of entitlement that is prevalent in our community. Why should we not expect our students to identify a worthy cause and volunteer on their own?
Elaine, have you been doing nothing all this time? Was your petition effort - nothing? You made a proper presentation asking the board not to overspend. what did you get in return from the board and their "community" cohorts.
I'm with Chuck on everything he's proposing, it all makes perfect sense.
The only question I have been trying to raise is how does he propose getting the "bureaucrats" to sign on?
Have you received one comment yet from the bureaucrats applauding Chuck's ideas. One positive sign, one note that they'll receive his ideas any better than they did James', or your's, or Taylor's, or the CAC's?
Dick Saunders
Dick,
I know that you are truly interested in this subject. The whole thrust of my framework was that there needs to be a coordinated and coherent approach to this matter. All of the actions you cited are commendable and heartfelt. However, I really don't see where they ever reached a critical mass. If we really want to make a difference, it will require an extended and combined effort. Small scale skirmishes don't get results. A grander strategy is required.
I hope that you understand my position a little more clearly. There is a lot of common ground between us.
This is one of the better threads to appear on this Blog; not only are people starting to bat around ideas, but some are using their real names, and a couple of comments are from folks on "the other side" of the high school/PTSA issues - and all comments have been reasonably respectful, so far anyway.
Speaking as one who is not part of the Mt. Lebanon establishment (or culture), although I've lived here since 1975, I see the current dysfunction in the District and Municipality, not as the problems begging solutions, but as the symptoms of two larger problems, those being; 1)entrenched political thought, and 2)apathy spread across 63% of our voting residents. Fix those problems and you will perforce have fixed a large number of problems at the District and Municipal levels.
As a libertarian (both with a small and large "L"), I know there are some ideas, and some solutions, that will not get the "time of day" in politically entrenched Mt. Lebanon. I refer specifically to:
1. The Sandy Springs, Georgia, model - the town that outsourced almost everything;
2. The Utah Plan - a state that is making sweeping changes in both education and public employment benefits;
3. The Puerto Rico Plan - unlike most "states," PR has cut government spending by 20 percent, lowered taxes and raised the territory’s bond status to its highest rating in 35 years;
4. School Evolution - the truth is that we are beginning to see the end of the local school district "monopoly" as we have known it, and the new Mt. Lebanon High School edifice may be the last structure of its kind in this community. Modern technology, new systems of study that reward even the autodidact, and greater choice will replace the current 19th Century system, and large public schools that serve only a six square mile community will go the way of the dinosaurs. If one really cares about student success as opposed to monuments to ego then I say "good riddance."
One may wonder why I've listed some plans that are obviously more suited to correcting a state's problems in a thread concerning local issues; but the Utah Plan, the Puerto Rico Plan (and a number of other new ideas), actually started LOCALLY. And they started with people who were fed-up with local politics and politicians. So keep the conversation going!
Chuck,
You are obviously knowledgeable and what I am wondering is why didn’t you help when others, including myself, were doing all we could to change the course? This isn’t meant as a poke, but why?
Quite honestly, I really don’t think it would have mattered because of what I witnessed and experienced along the way. There were many efforts made by many people to raise flags and change the course and most residents aren’t aware of those, so my guess is that you probably aren’t either. The items that you suggest should have been handled differently were really only a subset of various efforts that were made, so the problem is a big one.
In my opinion it is a lost cause at this point because the school district has already committed to a construction project it will not be able afford while other costly long term contracts to employees have been agreed to. Hunting and pecking for cost savings at this point won’t hurt, but for the most part any new suggestions will be noise. I think the Board knows it, which is why the “Hail Mary Pass” of a fundraising initiative and attempts to garner support for funding requests from Harrisburg have been suggested.
I am sorry to say that it’s too late to preserve what we had in terms of property values given the escalating tax burden. My home, for example, appraised for $40,000 less than the one two years ago and AFTER a renovation. I talked with the appraiser and he confirmed that the housing market here has slowed a bit (not like other cities), but that the property taxes limit the price buyers are willing to pay, so as the taxes are going up the sale prices are going down. So people are losing their wealth (equity in their homes) along with having to pay more for the same or less service.
For the most part our residents won’t care until they feel the pinch, and they soon will if they aren’t already. Remember that only 29% of the voters turned out for the last election? They just aren’t engaged. It doesn’t hurt to hold the Board and their supporters accountable, however. It would be a good idea to elect new directors for reform (if there will be any candidates willing to put up with the personal attacks that go along with a candidacy) the next time around.
I would still cheer for you or anyone else who may feel inclined to step up to the plate at this point nonetheless.
-Charlotte Stephenson
Chuck, if you read my comment at 3:53, which was penned before your 3:52 comment appeared, I'm on board with everything you are proposing. I really am, honest!
Unfortunately, from experience I think your only realistic suggestion is to try and build a slate of candidates for the next election. Which won't have much impact on today's issues.
Involved in this for years, I'm only offering observations from the past, that — history is history stuff mentioned.
I'm ready, willing, an able to work on the things you propose. Call a meeting, and I'll be there.
Do think BOSN, the VOICE of MTL will be? How about the board members?
Then again, may be you'd prefer I do nothing. Let me know?
Dick Saunders
I thought I understood your position from the beginning, Chuck, but whether 'I' do or not means - nada.
The question remains, do you think the powers that be - the bureaucrats share that common ground?
Regardless, where and when do we start?
Dick Saunders
I am pleased to see people coming forward. The Lebo Citizens website will be two years old next week. I have been waiting for this day. I support an extended and combined effort as you outlined, Chuck. I am observing Holy Week this week, so starting next week, I am available.
Elaine
All,
Charlotte made two great comments. First, where have I been? Until now, I have been active in other things. Unfortunately, my business interests have consumed npmuch of my time. However, I still manage to coach and administer in youth sports programs as well as participate in many church related functions and councils.
I began reading this blog a good while ago, and have commented on occasion. During this time, I have noticed a change in the overall demeanor of the posts. In my opinion, the comments on this site have grown increasingly more pointed. My decision to post on this thread was pushed by not only the issues, but by an increasing frustration with the anonymous and pseudonymed posts that have become more prevalent. It has snowballed to this point.
I now firmly believe that the community is beginning to feel the pinch. Therefore, it may be a good time to begin pushing back. The decision process prevalent in our elected officials is sorely lacking. We have continually seen increased spending in the face of a recessionary economy. Additionally, we are being asked to dig deeper from every direction. To make things even more ridiculous we are now being asked to contribute more in the form of user fees and charitablecontributions. A call for action is in the air.
Elaine, Dick, Charlotte
This has really snowballed. I am willing to meet to discuss this matter sometime next week. I can meet anywhere convenient, just give me a little advance notice.
For planning purposes, we should keep the group small at this point, just to make sure we have a viable agenda. Once we know a basic outline, we can get more folks involved.
Happy Easter Elaine!
Chuck, please email me so I can set something up.
Thanks!
Elaine
Chuck,
I am certainly willing to meet and talk, it can’t hurt. Next week is a bit tight but I am sure we will be able to find a mutual time.
Charlotte
A final thought about fundraising: Has anyone noticed that the Pursuant website states “New Client: Mount Lebanon Posted on March 26, 2012 by Jeff Giddens
We are proud to be conducting a planning study for Mount Lebanon schools’ upcoming capital campaign.”
Either Mr. Giddens has a preconceived idea about the outcome of the” feasibility study” (as I posted before rarely does a consulting group eliminate any opportunity for future work) or there is already some commitment to an upcoming capital campaign (of course it will cost money to run). Which is it? If it is the latter, once again, we are kept in the dark because we have been told that the $41,000 is for a feasibility study and not a planning study.
-Charlotte Stephenson
Charlotte, dI'd you really believe that PK would possibly come back with a red light after taking $41,000 study fee?
That certainly sounds like a faux pas - a planning fee! Planning is quite a bit different that studying the feasibility of a campaign. Sounds like somebody has some explaining to do. They won't of course, but they should.
Dick Saunders
Dick - no, I sure didn't, but it could be that residents may and it's their money so they have a right to know how it is being spent. Oh boy, if it's not one thing it's another! - Charlotte
Here is the link for those of you wanting to read it.
http://www.pursuantgroup.com/blog/new-client-mount-lebanon/
When you click to read the full article, it takes you to the PG where it mentions Postiq and the anonymous donation of $10,000.
Elaine
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