May 21, 2007, the Mt. Lebanon School Board approved TERC Investigations, based on the recommendation of math curriculum supervisor, Mr. Greg Wensell. Mt. Lebanon School District Elementary Math Curriculum (K-5) Frequently Asked Questions
A Letter to Parents Announcing the Reorganization from Dr. Steinhauer was sent April 5, 2011. At the April 18, 2011 School Board meeting, Dr. Steinhauer announced that Greg Wensell, the Supervisor of Mathematics was replacing retiring principal, Mike Schnirel at Jefferson Elementary School. http://bloglebo.blogspot.com/2011/04/school-board-approves-first-steps-of.html
Less than three months later, Wensell joined South Fayette July 5 as principal of grades three, four and five. South Fayette school plan wins township approvals
Sample of teaching materials and homework sheets
(from http://investigations.terc.edu/index.cfm)
How Far From 100?
Photos of actual Mt. Lebanon homework papers
Saving the best for last
A 3rd grade student explains how to solve a "hard" addition problem using the TERC/Investigations method she learned in school.
127 comments:
I need some help from the parents of 6th graders. An email was sent to parents at either Jefferson or Mellon or both, concerning an online remediation math website. I would like to share it here. I will post it without your personal information. Please email me at egillen476@aol.com
Elaine
The YouTube video is heartbreaking that I almost cried.
That video is about the saddest thing I have seen in education.
I run into the same situation in my house where I want to scream "ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS PUT ONE ON TOP OF THE OTHER AND ADD!"
Don't forget to visit the concerned parents' website, lebomathfacts.org
Elaine
I clicked on the link "How far from 100" - which appears to be the materials the teachers use. I now have a headache.
Where is "Child Advocate" Mary Birks? Maybe she should spend a little less time bashing Governor Corbett and rolling her eyes, and more time addressing what Drs. Allen, Steinhauer, and Davis are advocating.
Elaine
For more videos, including the one I posted here, visit Mt. Lebanon Concerned Parents' website, lebomathfacts.org here.
Elaine
Thank you for covering this, Elaine. You will never see it on MTLSD or Center Court or Mrs. Morgans' various media outlets ! !
Just because something is "new" or "modern" doesn't mean it's better.
Likewise, just because something is "new" or "modern" doesn't mean it's worse. It is plausible, after all, that Investigations is on the whole better than more-traditional approaches. But it's also plausible that it's worse.
So if you want to know which it is for real, you have to actually do the measurements.
The school district should be careful about saying they are the experts in math curriculum because many experts came before them and boy were they wrong. Here are some experts who were wrong.
Famous last words from the "experts"
"Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances."
-- Dr. Lee DeForest, "Father of Radio & Grandfather of Television."
"The bomb will never go off. I speak as an expert in explosives."
- - Admiral William Leahy , US Atomic Bomb Project
"There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom."
-- Robert Millikan, Nobel Prize in Physics, 1923
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
-- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers ." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't last out the year." -- The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957
"But what is it good for?" -- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
-- Bill Gates, 1981
This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." -- Western Union internal memo, 1876.
"The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
-- David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for investment in the radio in the 1920s.
"The concept is interesting and well-formed, but in order to earn better than a 'C,' the idea must be feasible."
-- A Yale University management professor in response to Fred Smith's paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service. (Smith went on to found Federal Express Corp.)
part 2
"I'm just glad it'll be Clark Gable who's falling on his face and not Gary Cooper." -- Gary Cooper on his decision not to take the leading role in "Gone With The Wind."
"A cookie store is a bad idea. Besides, the market research reports say America likes crispy cookies, not soft and chewy cookies like you make."
-- Response to Debbi Fields' idea of starting Mrs. Fields' Cookies.
"We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out."
-- Decca Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962.
"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." -- Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.
"If I had thought about it, I wouldn't have done the experiment. The literature was full of examples that said you can't do this."
- - Spencer Silver on the work that led to the unique adhesives for 3-M "Post-It" Notepads .
"Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil? You're crazy." -- Drillers who Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his project to drill for oil in 1859.
"Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau." - - Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University , 1929.
"Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value." -- Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre , France .
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
-- Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, US Office of Patents, 1899.
"The super computer is technologically impossible. It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." -- Professor of Electrical Engineering, New York University
"I don't know what use any one could find for a machine that would make copies of documents. It certainly couldn't be a feasible business by itself." -- the head of IBM, refusing to back the idea, forcing the inventor to found Xerox.
"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction."
-- Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse , 1872
"The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon." -- Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria 1873.
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." -- Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977
So let’s ask this FAQ…is the school district really and expert?
It appears that the "math professional" jumped ship.
Yes, 12:29 PM, but not before Dr. Steinhauer promoted him.
Elaine
Tom, I don't think parents have to do the math to know that it is worse.
Elaine
Are math teachers really "math experts"? Yes, I think so. They're certainly math-instruction experts, and for schools that's what we care about.
But experts are sometimes wrong. Yes, they're more likely to be right than non-experts, at least in their areas of expertise, but still they're wrong often enough that it would be dangerous to just "leave it to the experts."
When stakes are high, a more reliable approach is to ask the experts and then test their claims before acting. That way, you get the full benefit of the experts' knowledge without the full risk of harm when they're wrong.
It appears to me that the people who developed TERC were taught elementary math in the traditional way. The paragraph below is from TERC's own website:
TERC is a nonprofit research and development organization whose mission is to improve mathematics, science, and technology teaching and learning. TERC, founded in 1965, is located in Cambridge, Massachusetts. TERC staff includes researchers, scientists, and mathematicians, and curriculum and professional development specialists who ground their work on inquiry-based approaches that deepen all learners’ understandings.
12:50 PM, you mean school board directors. Teachers must support the curriculum. It is in their contract. Teachers can lose their jobs if they don't go with the program. It is called insubordination.
Elaine
Is it common for a company that is trying to sell you something to give you perks if you purchase their product? Doctors are given many perks for using certain prescription drugs that drug reps. try to sell them. Many times over the years I have been to my doctor's office to smell delicious smells coming from the back. I’ve ask what smells so good and they say of the prescription drug rep dropped of lunch or breakfast for us. I wonder if there were some perks that went along with the purchase of the TERC product. Trips to branch offices in Hawaii or some other vacation spot where TERC has a branch office. Half kidding but it does make one wonder if perks were involved.
Tom are we seeing a repeat of the 60s New Math?
From the oft-maligned Wiki:
"New Mathematics or New Math was a brief, dramatic change in the waymathematics was taught in Americangrade schools, and to a lesser extent in European countries, during the 1960s. The name is commonly given to a set of teaching practices introduced in the U.S. shortly after the Sputnik crisis in order to boost science education and mathematical skill in the population so that the intellectual threat of Soviet engineers, reputedly highly skilled mathematicians, could be met."
"Parents and teachers who opposed the New Math in the U.S. complained that the new curriculum was too far outside of students' ordinary experience and was not worth taking time away from more traditional topics, such as arithmetic. The material also put new demands on teachers, many of whom were required to teach material they did not fully understand. Parents were concerned that they did not understand what their children were learning and could not help them with their studies. Many of the parents took time out to try to understand the new math by attending their children's classes. In the end it was concluded that the experiment was not working, and New Math fell out of favor before the end of the decade, though it continued to be taught for years thereafter in some school districts. New Math found some later success in the form of enrichment programs for gifted students from the 1980s onward in Project MEGSSS.[2]
In the Algebra preface of his bookPrecalculus Mathematics in a Nutshell, Professor George F. Simmons wrote that the New Math produced students who had "heard of the commutative law, but did not know the multiplication table."
In 1973, Morris Kline published his critical book Why Johnny Can't Add: the Failure of the New Math. It explains the desire to be relevant with mathematics representing something more modern than traditional topics. He says certain advocates of the new topics "ignored completely the fact that mathematics is a cumulative development and that it is practically impossible to learn the newer creations if one does not know the older ones" (p. 17). Furthermore, noting the trend to abstraction in New Math, Kline says "abstraction is not the first stage but the last stage in a mathematical development" (p. 98)."
I don't disagree that teachers could be considered "math experts" as much as anyone who's job is heavily dependent on using math.
But, what separates the teacher from the "math professional" is that the pro applies his knowledge to solve a problem.
The teacher on the other hand uses his knowledge of math not to solve problems, but to transfer his knowledge to others.
There is a difference! In your business would you want and employee like the one in Elaine's video that must go through a drawn out process to add numbers or one grounded in traditional methods?
You're right we'd have to evaluate which employee arrives at the accurate sum fastest.
In the 60s the school administrators said New Math was the way!
Now in the 21st century our administrators declare investigations 'the way.'
The problem is if those administrators get it wrong once again, who pays the price for their stubbornness?
Here's a test.
Let's bring in a number of students that started out in traditional math but were also exposed to Incestigations.
Whom would that be our 7th or 8th graders?
Give them all a tough grade level math program and observe how they solve it.
If even though having been exposed to TERC they rely on traditional math to solve it that'd be a pretty good measurement of which works, wouldn't it.
Let the kids teach us!
1:56 PM, if you are on Facebook, you can follow the comments after Harry Funk's PG article. The link was posted in the previous thread about the math program. For those of you who are not on FB, here is a comment made from an eighth grader at Jefferson Middle School.
"I am an 8th grader at JMS in MTL and I HATE the math curriculum. It's horrible and it needs to go away. In 5th grade I switched to a different math program and went to a different teacher for math because the main math curriculum is to hard to understand at a young age. I went into the other math program to learn fractions, division, and adding better. Those are things we need to be taught in elementary. Not algebra and things like that which I started learning in 3rd grade before I switched. I am learning algebra now in eighth grade and I am still very confused about it because I don't know a lot of my adding, multiplication and division as well. I shouldn't have been taught algebra so early, I should have gotten the BASICS. I mean seriously, for Mt. Lebanon being a top grade school district we should at least have a better math program."
Elaine
It is one thing to read a tweet, even to exam PSSA or SAT scores.
The real test is to observe how the students solve a math problem in real time and with what method.
2:25 PM, isn't that the point that the parents are trying to make? They are seeing it first hand and they are unhappy with what they are seeing.
Elaine
If parents are discovering learning gaps, those are real problems.
But as for what caused those problems, it could be Investigations, or it could be something else. The cause is arguable.
That's why I wish the parents at Monday night's school board meeting had presented more evidence of the gaps – the concepts that Mt. Lebanon students didn't understand. Conceptual gaps are undeniably problems. There's no refuting them.
Instead, the parents focused on their perceived cause of the problems, and thereby opened the door to disagreement.
I heard some parents are buying math workbooks at Costco so they can help their kids with what should be very basic arithmetic.
These students are going to need more than a workbook. They need a look term tutor to fill the gaps along the way. It will be thousands of dollars but it is well worth it if you can't move out of the bubble. Another more expensive possibility is to move your student to a private school. The parents that spoke at the school board meeting had no idea what they are up against. That's why they didn't bring the evidence of gaps. Even if they had every bit of evidence it wouldn't have mattered. The school board will support administrators because they have everything to lose if they don't. You see one can't be wrong. The good people in this community have no relevance to the school district except to pay their fees and taxes. The school district will do as they please. They have done as they please for so many years and so many issues.
Tom,
The Lebo Math Facts parents can't speak of gaps yet because he full implementation of Investigations is 2013-2014. Should I wait around to see the gaps? Would you want to do that with your child? Wait around to see if this is a bad curriculum? Or try to do something about it now? My child doesn't have time.
Do I see gaps already? I only need to sit down and watch my child attempt to do her homework. I only have to see the lightbulb go off in her head when I show her the algorithm and she tells me how much easier that is than drawing sticker strips and blocks. I only have to see the lightbulb go off when we do a page of 20 math problems using algorithms and she finishes it in a few minutes vs. 25 minutes for 3 story problems with Investigations. You sound like an Administrator when you keep defending the test scores. I get that. But as a parent - I'm more concerned about what she is learning? Is she learning? Is there a confidence there? Is there a sense of accomplishment when she finishes her homework? It's not there with Investigations. So you can talk all you want about test scores and whether or not I'm seeing a GAP. I'm seeing plenty of gaps. What should send chills down your spine are the comments on the PG article - college kids having to abandon courses/majors and therefore careers in math and science because they are too far behind. And the comment about a former Mt.L honors math student who was so far behind at her new school district that she's no longer eligible for honors math at her new school. I'm just so tired of hearing about test scores. Yes. It's all we have. But my child is more than just a test score. Which is what we reduce these kids to when that's all we talk about.
I had math tutors for all my kids in Mt. Lebanon, and paid a pretty sum. It's actually a cottage industry in Mt, Lebanon, the teachers are recommended as off hours tutors and make a nice extra income out of the deal. One of my kids couldn't get through first level college calculus after having taken honors precalculus and calculus at Mt. Lebanon High School. Mt. Lebanon High School has a reputation for a weak math curriculum.
First-hand experience is also a fact. That child abandoned their thoughts about remaining in engineering coursework. Once a student gets to college and does not have a sufficient foundation, it's really too late to catch up given the pace of college level work.
So, we all know that Mt. Lebanon students are sought after by colleges, but what is happening to them once they get there? Who knows.
It's funny that one of the claims when issues come up with the district is that no onehypes to the board meetings. No one gets involved.
So here we have a standing room audience, a pretty good presentation of the parents issues and evidence and how does the board president respond.
This needs further study... no. We should look into adding some traditional math... no. We'll take your concerns under advisement... no.
The parents get... thanks for coming here, but we won't be deviating from our curriculum plan.
Yep, I know 60 or so concerned parents don't represent the whole community.
Well said 4:39.
Your comment should be directed again at the entire Board and administration.
Tom is good at data analysis and insists on getting it right. I respect that.
But outside of the anecdotes, what can we measure TODAY to find out what is going on?
Dear anonymous voice of January 26, 2013 at 4:39 PM:
I understand that you're frustrated. And, from your comment, it seems that you're seeing credible evidence of gaps in your child's education.
The point I'm trying to make, however, is that if you say Investigations is bad, the school district can argue the point. They're the process experts, and if you and they disagree on process, guess who's opinion they're going to go with?
But if you and other parents stand before the school board and present to them clear and credible evidence of problems in the outcomes of their chosen process – evidence like you presented to me just now – they will not be able to argue the point.
They can argue about process, but they can't argue about outcomes.
Show them outcomes.
Off the topic, but can someone explain how I type "It's funny that one of the claims when issues come up with the district is that no one goes to the board meetings" and the sentence scrolls out of the entry window as I add text, but when I submit it... It comes out: "It's funny that one of the claims when issues come up with the district is that no onehypes to the board meetings."?????
Boy do I miss traditional pen and paper.
Sorry Tom, but a study done by the PDE showed that an extraordinary percentage of freshman entering PA state-run universities needed remedial math and English courses to bring them up to college level ability.
I think the study showed 23% of Lebo freshman needing the remedial help in 2009 (I think that was the year for the PDE study).
So the board always has that evidence to justify the new math curriculum. Unfortunately it'll take another 5 or 6 years to see if that 23% goes up or down using Investigations math.
Using traditional math and figuring a 500 student graduating class that's 2,500 or 3,000 kids going through the system before we see results.
Tom, Tell these folks how many kids you have.
Tom. Without credible evidence of current gaps with our elementary kids - all that can be done is present them with the gaps identified at other school districts. Research studies that show this math will create gaps. Evidence of school districts in other areas having to supplement. School districts - including the one the Dr. Irvin just came from - dropping Investigations. All of this data/research appears to be on the lebomathfacts website. Short of actual MtL evidence of gaps, the research that has been done AFTER they bought this program in 2007 should at least be enough to raise some red flags. Sounds as if they are done discussing the issue. They'll wait for the test scores. And the gaps. Tom: do you have a child in this school district? I do - and therefore am not comfortable using my name on these comments. If that makes them less credible, my apologies to you.
Tom, you live on Dell Ave. That is in the Lincoln area isn't it? What happened to the 100% proficiency scores at Lincoln School, Tom? How were your children affected by the drop in test scores?
Let's not turn this into a bash Tom thread.
Try to understand what he is saying without "shooting the messenger".
I think a lot of us are looking for the same thing. We feel that this is the wrong math. We see with our own eyes the frustration on the faces of our kids and in our own minds when our kids do the homework.
Tom, I guess to advance the thread along, may I ask you a question? What data exists today that can prove or disprove the idea that the TERC/Investigations math is helping our hurting our students? I am not asking you to sort or massage the data, but what would you look at? In the previous post I suggested following the PSSA test scores for certain grades. But that was frowned upon by some. I have experience right here at Washington that says my student outcome scores in math dropped significantly between 2009 and 2010 but with only two data points I know that's not enough.
I'd hate for the answer to be, "we have to wait and see". And honestly, that is what is being told to some parents. We need to wait and see how many kids stick with the higher level math in high school and college. We have to wait and see the impact on SAT scores. Well, those waits are literally years in the making.
What can we look at today?
Thanks.
Sorry, Tom, the Board considers outcomes as anecdotal evidence. Unfortunately, the Board will only look at test scores.
Elaine
My student had to abandon a science degree because of gaps in math. After two years of trying my student switched majors to teaching. Math was easier and was able to graduate. However hasn't been able to find a job as a teacher yet. With the science degree my kid would have had a job by now. The confidence of my kid thinking he's stupid not being able to do the math...thinking its his/her fault. The school district is also known for not identifying students with disabilities leaving those kids feeling stupid too. So the cost of not getting a good math foundation is more than just having gaps but also emotional consequences happen.
10:15 don't let your kid be trapped in public school think.
If they want to be successful they can do it if they really want it.
http://collegedropoutshalloffame.com/
Famous, Rich, and Successful People
Who Were High School or College Dropouts
I'm a firm believer that most college students would be better off dropping out of school and investing the money they now spend on college. Then take the four years they would have spent on college and travel, work, play, and spend time with smart people talking about important things. It would be your choice on what's important, not a professor, not a dean, not a faculty committee.
You don't have to go to college to be a success. Even if you go for awhile, you don't have to graduate to be a success. Here are just a few of the people who have become famous and/or successful without graduating from college and/or high school.
A survey conducted by Bloomberg in 2010 show that the school of hard knocks was the number one source (tied with the University of California) for CEOs of S&P 500 companies. Harvard was the #3 source (along with the universities of Texas, Missouri, and Wisconsin). The school of hard knocks features CEOs who never graduated from college.
Of the top 400 richest Americans in 2011, 27 graduated from high school but did not attend college. Another 36 were college dropouts.
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2011/9/education%20greenstone%20looney/092011_education_greenstone_looney_shevlin
While all this discussion on finding ways to evaluate our Investigations Math you may want to visit the above paper above "Improving Student Outcomes: Restoring America's Education Potential" from the Brookings Institute.
Their conclusions in Chapter 4 and the graph on page 32 are pertinent to the conversation and overall picture.
Rather than take a myopic look at the past 4 years, let's examine the "test" results for the district over the past 30 years.
Spending, staffing, graduation rates, achievement. Traditional math vs New Math vs Carnegie Math vs TERC for instance.
I would like to suggest another framework for your discussion.
When a firm manufacturers a product that they realize is defective, the management needs to address the impact on the customer first. The remedial action can take different forms - one may be to discontinue production, a product recall, field service, product modifications in the field, etc.
So, how can this framework be applied to this problem? What steps should the administration take to protect the children who have been impacted?
Should the teaching method be discontinued?
Should remedial instruction be performed?
Did the administration pilot this type of program before a full roll-out, and if so, does the administration have a corrective action plan ready to address a deviation from expected results?
Has the administration projected a set of milestones that assess student progress against expected achievement goals as a part of the TERC roll-out and what do the tangible measurments of scholastic achievement indicate? What concerns or corrective action is the supt advocating; or does the supt think that everything is fine?
Doesn't Jan Kline have ASQ Quality Manager Certification? How does student achievement under TERC fit with the SD's committment to quality? Why aren't we hearing more from those in the SD who have been tasked with quality?
Doesn't the SD have a "student advocate" who is empowered to address these types of concerns?
What specific steps should the SD take next to protect the kids?
Mr. Kendrick the first problem is that unlike a manufacturer will never admit that there "product" may be defective. They will never issues recalls and their clientele doesn't have the luxury of taking their business elsewhere.
If GM puts a lousy defective truck on the market and sales drop because customers found out about it and bought Fords or Toyotas GM gets on the stick and fixes or continues to loose market share. The same goes for pricing. If their truck is priced thousands above the competitors the free market buyers go to the perceived bargain.
For a school district their is no free market and no incentive to fix a defective product.
That's why they're so dead set against charter and online schools. Unless of course they are their own.
The post of January 27, 2013 at 12:59 PM is the perfect segue into National School Choice Week 2013, which officially starts today and runs through February 2nd.
Yesterday, the organization kicked off a "whistle-stop" train tour, starting in Los Angeles, that will cross America. See "National School Choice Week 2013 Kicks Off in Los Angeles" from the Reason Foundation.
12:59 is making the case for school vouchers and free competiton between schools. I agree. It has worked well at the collegiate level. It will work well with public schools.
But this won't help these kids today.
What can be done right now?
Isn't anyone accountable?
How can these kids get help? What can be done to help them now?
Off the topic slightly, but we may have uncovered why the board's $95 million cost projection never materialized!
Like the little girl in the YouTube video the administration used their new TERC math to add up all the cost associated with the high school renovation.
Unfortunately, unlike the little girl who followed the advice of the adult in the room, they didn't bother to use traditional math to check their work.
So when the bids came in they were shocked and dumbfounded to find they got it all wrong.
And everyone knows the "math professionals" never ever get anything wrong.
LOL!!!
Not necessarily Mr. Kendrick.
I'm not completely sold on charter or online schools.
Though if the district continues to operate as it has been with little accountability and enough exceptions and exclusions to drive the proverbial Brink's truck through, then free choice imay be the only option to put the system back on track.
Again - What is going to be done to help these kids now?
Right now.
I'm not sure the college example make a good argument for charters and online schools over traditional public schools, Mr. Kendrick.
Though there is a similarity in the rise in administrative cost between the two that is intriguing according to the article below.
Read-- http://www.forbes.com/sites/steveodland/2012/03/24/college-costs-are-soaring/
"Since 1982 a typical family income increased by 147%, more than inflation but significantly behind the huge increase in college costs. College costs have been rising roughly at a rate of 7% per year fordecades. Since 1985, the overall consumer price index has risen 115% while the college education inflation rate has risen nearly 500%. According to Gordon Wadsworth, author of The College Trap, “…if the cost of college tuition was $10,000 in 1986, it would now cost the same student over $21,500 if education had increased as much as the average inflation rate but instead education is $59,800 or over 2 ½ times the inflation rate.” "
How does MTLSD's cost/student compare 1985 to 2012? Then for all that spending what did we get in the way of results.
You ask John, what can be done right now to help the kids. Mr. Moertel in my opinion is on the right track, first you need to uncover what is broken. But before you even get to that point you have to figure out what to look for.
John what can we do to helpthe kids right now?
Not much more than what the math preened have already done.
Mr. Lebowitz, on the other hand, whom I seldom side with and who does have the power and authority to do something... right now... suggested we challenge our teachers and our administrators.
Unfortunately, he may only have been providing lip service.
Again - What is going to be done to help these kids now?
Mr. Kendrick:
The District certainly isn't going to help them in a way that would satisfy their parents because it doesn't believe it has an identifiable problem.
As we know, some of the parents have engaged private tutors; some have sent their kids to other schools to get help; and some have stated that they are going to move out of town. (While moving out may seem like a drastic step for a family to take over a disagreement with the District about math, if those parents feel it is in the best interests of their children to make such a decision then that is what they should do. No family with children in district schools should put loyalty to the MLSD above the best interests of its children.)
One thing I would like to see the Mt. Lebanon Parents for a Balanced Math Curriculum do is to hold their own public meeting, where they can present the evidence they have gathered and take questions from the public. They should invite the press, and could even invite the members of our school board to attend. Of course, I would suggest they hold off on allowing board members to speak until the end of the meeting, and then allow them only five minutes each for comments.
Richard, sounds like you setting up another "what the Kluck" event.
Excellent idea, RG. It was sad to hear that the District would not show the PowerPoint presented by Mr. Woods. The Commission is so much more cooperative. By making prior arrangements, PowerPoints are shown all the time. Just contact the Commission and they will work with you. That would never fly with the District. Dr. Allen was such a control freak during the math presentation. The cameras caught her directing all the responses.
Here is a wild one, Mrs. Cappucci. Instead of having John Grogan next month, why don't you solve the math problem presented to you last week before moving on to sports?
Elaine
O.K. want another college example? My boys are doing well in college, they are sailing through their math classes feeling sorry for kids who when to other school districts who had less stringent requirements. One is at Penn State, the other is at Penn in Phila. My daughter is in Honors math and is doing quite well.
Only 50 or so parents went to the board meeting, hardly a statistical significant number. Do we have a Math problem in Lebo? the answer is NO.
7:59 PM Stated like a true District/SB suck up, and perhaps you are of one of them.
Your kids were long beyond the K-5 grades when TERC Investigations was introduced.
7:59 PM, I am so impressed! TERC Investigations was approved for the elementary schools in May 2007. Your boys are in college already? You didn't mention the age of your daughter. How many years of this new program was she exposed to?
Elaine
Seems to be evidence FOR traditional math 7:59.
The math teachers in our district have been supplementing their income with tutoring fees for years. It is time to restaff the math department - or give our superintendents a 150-day-job-termination notice for supporting a substandard math course.
7:59
I am happy for you and for your children. They represent the type of student Mt. Lebanon aspires to turn out.
But, the thing here is that the math program has been significantly changed since your children came through the system. The parents that are here are asking for basically the same thing your children had...some hands on instruction in traditional math.
To the other poster about the 50 people who showed up...well, the Build Our School Now cabal never managed anything close to that at a school board meeting yet the school board was presented with over 4000 signatures. Somehow the David beat the Goliath in that matchup and the math/terc people are here to do the same thing.
10 people at a school board meeting is a significant number. 50 is more than I have seen at anything other than a major construction vote.
Yes, yes I did figure out a way to bring this back to the high school project...ugh!
9:06 then you've either forgotten or weren't around for Sablegate.
The board and administration ignored the public on that one too.
The Trib reported "The nearly 75 parents who attended the meeting at the Jefferson Middle School Library..."
@7:59 try to stay with us.
PARENTS: There is a source of free math help on the Internet called The Khan Academy (see Khan Academy Founder Talks Radical Education Reform and The One World Schoolhouse from the Reason Foundation). In fact the Khan Academy offers a lot of free courses for all age groups. The URL to Khan is: www.khanacademy.org.
Here's a snippet from Khan's tutorial on adding and carrying: "You're somewhat familar with adding, say, 17+12 or 21+32, but what happens for 13+19? Essentially, what happens when I max out the "ones place". In this tutorial, we'll introduce you to the powerful tool of carrying and why it works."
I recommend you watch the video from Reason first, and then check out Khan. You may feel that some of the Khan videos are a little silly, and this resource may not be everybody's "cup of tea," but it is an alternative to TERC that teaches traditional math to kids. It might just work for you and your kids, and it costs nothing.
Tom, I get your point but it's the trees/forest thing here. you wrote:
"The point I'm trying to make, however, is that if you say Investigations is bad, the school district can argue the point. They're the process experts, and if you and they disagree on process, guess who's opinion they're going to go with?
But if you and other parents stand before the school board and present to them clear and credible evidence of problems in the outcomes of their chosen process – evidence like you presented to me just now – they will not be able to argue the point.
They can argue about process, but they can't argue about outcomes.
Show them outcomes."
But you're getting buried in the small picture. the big picture is this--the school board, once in their seats and rolling their eyes, are still accountable to the community. They dont' suddenly have full authority to do whatever the hell they please. If parents aren't satisfied with some aspect of the curriculum, and demand a change, then the school board needs to change it. Period. Why should parents have to delineate the specific nuances of what makes one system worse or provide reams of empirical data to substantiate their opinion? It works the other way. The school board needs ot prove to the parents that whatever system is in place is working. And I don't care how much time or effort it takes each member of the board. They wanted to be in those seats, then let them prove it by doing the work.
I'm so sick of people in Lebo somehow giving full deference to school board lackeys or commissioners. THEY WORK FOR US!! I can't say it enough. THEY WORK FOR US!
The following is pertinent to the discussion in TERC and the "math professionals."
http://mobile.thegatesnotes.com/Books/Education/Value-Added-Measures-in-Education
Value-Added Measures in Education: What Every Educator Needs to Know (Book Review)
Book Review by Bill Gates
EMAIL THIS PAGE
SHARE THIS ON FACEBOOK
SHARE THIS ON TWIDouglas N. Harris is an economist who studies education reform, and he's written an interesting book that has a lot of important things to say about a controversial subject: teacher accountability.
It's a hot topic because of efforts to improve classroom learning by using improvement in student test scores as one of multiple measures to evaluate teachers – and then make decisions about their retention, promotion, and pay. In the past, most school districts have made these decisions based almost entirely on seniority and whether a teacher had earned graduate degrees. Results in the classroom weren't considered at all. President Obama's Race to the Top Initiative began encouraging states to use improvements in test scores as part of evaluating teachers. And today some 30 states do so.
Mr. Gates conclusion at the end is interesting.
"Still, I think he's right in emphasizing that while value-added measures can help principals focus on working with teachers who may be struggling, the principal and peer-teachers should sit in on classes and provide feedback the teacher can use to improve. This is the big benefit. Only if all else fails, over a reasonable amount of time, should a teacher who's weak (based on experts' observations as well as scores) be counseled to find another line of work."
Maybe Dr. Steinhauer should cut out pizza lunches with the kids and start spending some time observing what's going on in the classroom. I mean that's fine if parents are complaining about lunch rooms, but I'd think math classes are a bigger priority.
10:22 I like the way you think.
And it doesn't matter if one parent or 1,000 parents complain.
They administration and the teachers work for you, me and for all of us.
Plus, Mr. Cooper's behavior was deplorable.
Having worked in retail and in serving clients in my regular profession had I reacted to a customer as he did, no matter how asinine the customer may have been, had I shown that demeanor I'd be out of a job real quick.
if you're not part of the solution Mr. Cooper, you're part of the problem.
"Three out of four graduates aren’t fully prepared for college and likely need to take at least one remedial class, according to the latest annual survey from the nonprofit testing organization ACT, which measured half of the nation’s high school seniors in English, math, reading and science proficiency.
Only 25 percent cleared all of ACT’s college preparedness benchmarks, while 75 percent likely will spend part of their freshman year brushing up on high-school-level course work. The 2011 class is best prepared for college-level English courses, with 73 percent clearing the bar in that subject. Students are most likely to need remedial classes in science and math, the report says.
Although the results are slightly better than last year — 24 percent of the 2010 graduating class met ACT’s four thresholds — the report highlights a glaring disconnect between finishing high school and being ready for the academic challenges of college.
These ACT results are another sign that states need to raise their academic standards and commit to education reforms that accelerate student achievement,” Education Secretary Arne Duncan said Tuesday."
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/75-percent-of-freshmen-not-ready-for-college/
Let me try explaining it a different way.
If you go to the owners of a steakhouse and tell them that their staff shouldn’t be using the Investigations method of cooking steaks, what do you think is going to happen? The owners are going to listen to you politely, and then change nothing.
But if you show the owners a burnt steak and say, “I ordered it medium rare. In your steakhouse, is this an acceptable outcome?” you are not going to be ignored.
And if enough people do the same, and do it publicly, it’s not going to matter what the cooking experts at the steakhouse say. If their process doesn’t reliably produce acceptable outcomes, that’s all anybody needs to know: it’s broken.
Tom, what is that number? They paid no attention to 4,000 signatures.
As for your steakhouse analogy, I would asked to be comped for my meal. I would stop giving them my business and eat elsewhere. I could cook at home, but it is nice to go out to eat at a nice restaurant and be served a meal that lives up to their reputation. Where do you expect to get a better steak? Ruth's Chris or Ponderosa? Parents in Mt. Lebanon are paying for Ruth's Chris.
Elaine
*would ask, not would asked.
Elaine
Elaine, I don’t know how many “burnt steaks” you’ll have to show to the school board – and the news media – to get a change. What I do know is that you’ll probably get nothing if you keep talking about process.
You can’t win on process. But if you switch to outcomes, at least you’ll have a chance.
Tom, that was the dumbest analogy I've ever seen. And patronizing. I'm not in 4th grade and I can read really big words.
Here, let me try to explain it another way to you. I pay taxes. I didn't vote for any of these idiots. They lied, repeatedly, to the community they purport to serve as volunteers. Now I have to pay more taxes (not my choice). Now I'm learning that some of what said idiots have implemented in the system I pay for is crap. So I want them to change it. According to your explanation, the burden is on me to prove why?? How about this--because I said so and I'm paying for it. the-school-board-works-for-the-community. The-community-does-not-work-for-the-school-board. They are liars, crooks and, as has been pointed out for YEARS, continue with their disrespectful behavior like Cooper and Sue Rose who used to make faces like she'd wet herself. Then there's Posti with crossed arms and pursed lips, Birks with the over-emotional sighs and on and on.
If parents want the curriculum changed, it should be changed. Teh school board doesn't know better. And where is our man of the hour Dan Remely? Shouldn't he be advocating for the rights of parents since he wants to be elected? Wait, I forgot Posti is involved along with local loser Raja. Nevermind.
A few years ago I had a co-worker showed me a message that he received. The message said, "If you are in a bad relationship, God can help. If you are in a bad marriage, God can help. If you are in a dead-end job, God can help. But if you don't do something on your own to change your bad marriage, your dead-end job or your bad relationship - then God can't help."
The same goes for the problems facing this community.
No matter how you look at the problems facing Mt Lebanon, the only way to change things is to find candidates that will make a difference, organize and VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!!!!
Tom, that's a fair analogy but here's the problem with it and the flaw in your thinking.
At what point in your education meal do you fond out your kid's a piece of burnt meat?
And as you point out the restaurant owners will listen politely and not change anything.
We're, as Mr. Cooper demonstrated, not even getting the courtesy of a polite and respectful ear.
Elaine points out the obvious. If the manager doesn't respond to your complaint, you can take your business elsewhere and the restaurant can continue to serve a burnt steak.
The district, the PSBA believe like it or not you have to eat that steak!
Tom, do you expect parents to parade their 6th graders at the podium, and tell the board in their own words they cannot perform long division?
When are you going to express your concerns at a school board meeting?
Tom, while I'm not going to the extremes that 2:41 did, that really is a dumb analogy.
Let's add a little reality to it. If the owner or the stockholders were dining at your mythical restaurant and called the manager over to the table and said: "look at these meals, we think they're awful!" what do you think the managers response would be? "Thanks for coming here tonight, we appreciate your comments, but we're not going to change how we cook!"
See unfortunately when itcomes to public schools taxpayers/parents are both owner and customer.
Somewhere along the way administrators and teachers have forgotten that.
If you listen to the speech given by the NEA head lawyer several years ago you'd see immediately what's wrong with public education.
Tom M. -
Do you really feel comfortable having your kids taught the TERC method?
How are your kids performing academically?
Tom, I have been privy to some emails where parents have shared outcomes. They would email "outcomes" to the school board and Dr. Tim. Do you know what the parents get in return? "Talk to your child's teacher and principal." Or they are told that it is an isolated incident and are promised that it won't happen again. Unfortunately, they lie. Parents share experiences and realize that they are being duped.
I resent the fact that our arrogant board and administration can get away with this. The parents are powerless. They will not win this one. There are never enough parents at meetings. There are never enough signatures on petitions. Outcomes are considered to be anactodal evidence. To sit here and think that things are going to change, they are not. I am thankful my kids got out of the system when they did. I feel sorry for the parents and the kids.
Elaine
Here's another example of the BS being foisted on the public.
Look at the before photo of the lab in the article and then compare the after photo with those the board has used to 'sell' destroying a perfectly good building.
3:25 PM, you should ask the school board members that same question. Which ones have elementary school children? Goldman? Kubit? Birks? I really don't know.
Elaine
Here's the link to the article discussed at 3:28.
http://www.edtechmagazine.com/higher/article/2013/01/3-ways-reconfigure-old-computer-lab
Why are so many parents concerned about the math curriculum? They must be seeing something at home, right now, that would make reasonable people (like themselves) believe that there are problems. These somethings are the “burnt steaks.” We don’t have to wait years to find them: parents are finding them right now.
But if parents won’t show them to the school board? To the public? What’s going to pressure the school district to change?
If parents are shocked by these problems, why won’t the public be shocked as well? So if the school district ignores the burnt steaks, show them to the public.
The public doesn’t get worked up about process, but does about outcomes. If you show them outrageous outcomes, the public tends to get outraged.
And when the public gets outraged, public officials get motivated to become problem solvers (or at least to un-become problem defenders). Changes are more likely to happen.
It’s gotten changes before.
Tom, anyone that works in the restaurant business will tell you - don't complain about your meal or the service until you're ready to leave.
Otherwise you might find a little condiment you weren't expecting.
Check out Michelle Malkin's column in today's trib:
http://triblive.com/opinion/featuredcommentary/3348120-74/standards-core-common
This is all in keeping with my own experience as a parent of elementary- and middle-school-age kids who were exposed to “Everyday Math” nonsense. This and other fads abandon “drill and kill” memorization techniques for fuzzy “critical thinking” methods that put the cart of “why” in front of the horse of “how.”
Common Core is rotten to the core. The corruption of math education is just the beginning.
So, who is running for school board that isn't already in the cabal?
How about Moertel, Gillen, Gideon and Kendrick?
Tom Moertel,
My child is not a piece of meat. Elaine Cappucci has spoken. Deb Allen has spoken. Tim Steinhauer has spoken. Jeff Woods tried to speak. No time is allotted for outcomes. There is no room for discussion. Literally.
As far as outcomes vs. process is concerned, I fully understand Tom Moertel's point concerning outcomes being the more convincing argument. However, the parents who are "at the front" in this war say they are experiencing problems now that they can trace to Investigations (with the "convincer" being that when their children are taught American algorithms their kids "get it"), and can't wait several years for the evidence to filter into the District - and they have a good argument. Certainly other districts across America have had similar problems with TERC and went to another system.
But what should we make of parents who say their kids like Investigations are are learning something from it? The irony is that this situation points out the need to keep American algorithms because it shows that kids are different (gasp!) and learn math in different ways. Even the LeboMathFacts group is not calling for the elimination of Investigations but for a balanced approach. (Despite assurances from the District that kids are getting a balanced math course there seems to be some question about this.)
One thing is certain: Parents need to take ownership of their children's education, and I sense there may be a move afoot to do this very thing. I certainly agree that we need new thinking and new blood on the Board, but even should that occur parents must come to terms with the fact that it is they, not the District, who are the final arbiters in the educational lives of their young children.
Of course, if we had school choice we likely wouldn't be having this discussion.
Oh come on Tom. Have you forgotten so fast.
A structural engineer showed the board the burnt steak.
12 construction professionals showed them the burnt toast.
4,000 stockholder/patrons told them they didn't like the menu.
They ignored them. They said they knew what steak should like and how much it should cost - <$95 million.
Even when they found out they knew nothing about steak, they proceeded to serve it anyway.
You making some pretty heavy proclamations here and we're not denying your right to do so, but where's the beef?
What outcomes are we suppose to show? How do we test?
You've prepared graphs, but then say they're not good enough, that conclusions can't be drawn from them.
As someone asked before, do they have to parade their kid before the public, humiliate them as being an underachiever to get the board to work WITH the math parent group?
I didn't hear Mr. Woods ask for the chef to be fired or even a change in the menu.
4:34 PM, I emailed several parents and asked them to run for school board. Their response? NO THANKS!
Me? I feel the same way. I would never get anything accomplished. They would be rolling their eyes at me the same way they do for Scott Goldman when he doesn't go with the program. Dale Ostergaard used to think for himself, but now he goes along to get along. Remely can vote yes with regrets. What the heck is that? He will be re-elected as will Jo Posti and Mary Birks. You'll see. Just like Kubit, Cappucci, and Lebowitz did. It is not going to change.
This is as bad as a rape trial. The victims are supposed to testify against their attackers in court? The judge and jury? The school board and administration. Where is your sensitivity, Tom?
Elaine
I didn't hear Mr. Woods ask for the chef to be fired or even a [total] change in the menu.
Is this the TERC connection?
Michael Fierle
PROJECT AFFILIATION:
MSP of SW Pennsylvania
Roles: Project Professional Developer, Academy Facilitator
Access: Project Admin
PROFESSIONAL ROLES
Teacher: Middle School, Teacher: High School, K-12 Administrator, Researcher, Evaluator
BIO
I have taught secondary mathematics for eight years. Served as the mathematics curriculum supervisor for the Mt. Lebanon school district. Currently a math coordinator for the SWPA MSP and focusing my attentions primarily at the elementary level.
To the anonymous voice of January 28, 2013 at 4:36 PM:
I never wrote nor implied that your child was a "piece of meat." In the steakhouse metaphor, your child is the customer, not the meat.
The "meat" is what comes out of the process and is given to the customer. In a steakhouse, it's a steak. In a school, it's an education.
5:07 PM, I am having difficulty following your connection.
I also wanted to add that the examples of the Mt. Lebanon worksheets were difficult to obtain. Parents were hesitant to share their children's work for obvious reasons.
Elaine
Elaine, this should help you follow the connection.
Mr. Fierle's post:
I would caution meeting or visiting just any district that is using such
programs or who have dropped them. As often is the case, the districts
that drop the curricula mentioned often did so because they did not
implement it correctly, didn't provide the necessary training and
support, and/or did not include all constituents in the planning of
adopting such curricula. Districts often blame the failure of the
program on the curriculum and not where it should be placed....on lack
of proper planning and implementation. Good luck
http://mathforum.org/kb/profile.jspa?userID=25441
http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=1125642&messageID=3692909
What do you mean by "evaluate"? What all does that entail? Who is on
your committee? Will those who pilot receive any training and support?
These curricula require a very different pedagogical (and philosophical)
approach (for the better I might add).
I would first recommend identifying the big ideas/concepts in
mathematics that will be developed through K-5. Also, I think it is
important to read the research that supports reform-based curricula such
as these so that everyone is educated about how the emphasis of these
curricula is on student learning and how the teacher will facilitate
and support that learning. Strong connection to the NCTM Principles
and Standards. Lastly, I would also highly recommend examining the
Investigations in Number, Data, and Space
http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=1125642&messageID=3692200
Sorry Tom you analogy just doesn't work.
The child is ordering his own education and paying the check (taxes)for his own education meal?
Oh I can see it now, Dr. Steinhauer, for math I'll have the stacked blocks with a side of sticks to fill my young stomach (mind). Yeah that works.
Sorry but the customer is the parent that is ordering a quality education for his child in order for your analogy to work at all.
Are you now telling us your mythical steakhouse customer is the K-5 student and that it's UP TO THEM to tell the steakhouse that their steak (nath education) is undercooked? Tell me Tom, how does your child customer that is only now eating steak at a restaurant (math) for the first few times suppose to know that his steak is undercooked. What does experience does he draw on. Last weeks Happy Meal?
Please, please tell me you're not serious Tom?
Some people have asked what I would do, were I in the parents’ situation. What I would do is not look to the school district for my family’s education. Like Richard suggests, I would “own” that responsibility, myself.
If my family went to the school district, I would measure what was learned there and supplement accordingly. There are lots of great learning resources online now, and I’d use them. I’d almost certainly use Khan Academy, which not only has learning resources but measurement tools.
So that’s what I would do: Own it. It’s a personal decision and obviously not right for every family. But I believe that education is too important to trust to government. After all, if something goes wrong with my family’s education, it’s my family that’s going to pay the price, not the government.
OK kiddies, you heard it here Uncle Tom said if you don't like your uundercooked math meat, YOU should send it back!
The Steakhouse is just going to love that, I'll bet.
Tom M -
You don't have any kids?????
Why are you here? To dispense bull for Timmy?
But I believe that education is too important to trust to government.
Mr. Moertel:
Once again I must publicly commend you for your lucid observation; I couldn't agree with you more! Also, while I may disagree with you from time to time on some things, you've done yeoman's service for this community in calling out the skewed assessment process, and providing other data analysis services to anyone who would listen.
I, for one, do not think that you are a "shill" for the school district, and I think you've made lucid arguments in this thread. Unfortunately, the parents who feel their kids are being harmed by TERC and are trying to deal with the MLSD are frustrated beyond belief, and some of them are going off "half cocked." I know if I still had a child in the District, and felt that she was being used as an object in a pedagogical experiment, I'd be livid! But I would hope I wouldn't lash out at someone who was actually trying to help me by getting me to, as Ayn Rand put it, "question my premises."
Mr. Moertel alluded to the media at one point. Imagine if a group of parents picketed on the sidewalk, not on school property, with signs rejecting TERC Investigations, etc..., and the media was called to do a story on the picketing right before the scheduled board meeting that permits citizen's comments. Parents speak to a reporter under condition of anonymity and report Dr. Allen's, the superintendent's and the School Board's response to the public! Invite reporters after that to school board meetings and parents continue to make citizen's comments that the board is not responding. You get the idea! No school wants any kind of negative publicity!
Tom, this makes sense: "After all, if something goes wrong with my family’s education, it’s my family that’s going to pay the price, not the government."
So, I guess after you ate and paid for your burnt steak meal, you cheerfully skip down the street to another steak house to get the good steak dinner you went out for in the first place?
Sorry, you posted the analogy.
Some people are stretching the restaurant metaphor beyond the breaking point. I introduced it only to focus on the difference between process and outcome.
As for why I'm here, I'm trying to help. I care about education, and I care about our community. If you believe that anything I've said is untrue or unhelpful, feel free to call out my mistakes or ignore what I've said.
But having people shout to the world that I don't have kids is pretty terrible. Whoever did that might want take a moment to consider what it could feel like to be on the receiving end of a comment like that.
In any case, I've learned my lesson.
I agree with you on that one Tom. Whether you have kids or not is unimportant. You are a taxpayer and the quality of the education served affects you too.
Your graphs are impeccable and I think they support the the parents concerns with the math curriculum.
OK we'll drop the steak analogy.
The school district has been claimimg that they are the number 1 reason our home values stay high.
So parents move here for the excellent schools, discover they might be as good as the PR claims say they are or that the curriculum isn't the one they came for. And when they approach the board, the president tells them they don't count.
Tom:
This was horrible to watch. Allow me to apologize for what these brainless howler monkeys put you through. Allow me to apologize on behalf of the fearless First Amendment Crusader who sat back giggling while she let the howler monkeys tear you apart. I hope you get to read this, Tom, because based on my history of posting here, this comment has about a 70 percent chance of being censored. Again, sorry, but maybe this will finally persuade you that this is not a place for rational discussion. I think Neil Berch has learned that lesson too.
Comments aren't the only way to hurt people, Tom.
Thanks, 8:21 I guess today is your lucky day. If you are the person who submitted the comment about abortion in the second half of your comment, it was too graphic to post. I felt it was better to post some of your comment verses none of your comment. So this fearless First Amendment Crusader does go to every meeting and record meetings, blog about the REAL problems in Mt. Lebanon, so that people like you can get your digs in.
Elaine
6:42pm Well, there comes a problem again with anonymous posting. You don't really get why Mr. Moertel is here to comment? Do you? It is quite disappointing to see a comment like yours in this focused thread. Think twice and read your post at least once before you submit your comment.
As for the process vs outcome analogy, I can't agree more with Mr. Moertel's point in terms of effectiveness in getting the results from this broken SD. But the real problem is our kids are not test objects. This is just once and for all type of process.
Would you let doctors test a critical level of some chemical on you kids if the doctors believe the chemical is "believed" to be a good one without 1) significant support from the medical community and 2) long-term statistical measure of success?
Speaking of 'statistics', someone said 50 is hardly a statistically meaningful number. Did the SD provide any statistically proven measure of success with TERC methods? I doubt they can because there is none yet. Typically some officials/politicians are trying to implement something like this at any level at the government. If the outcome is good, it will be in their resume. Otherwise, the blame goes to the details of implementation methods, timing, public awareness etc.
I started following some events in MTLSD for ~2 years now. It's surprisingly similar to what's happening in some developing countries where I used to live.
8:21--
The world is full of fools and faint hearts; and yet everyone has courage enough to bear the misfortunes, and wisdom enough to manage the affairs, of his neighbor. ~Benjamin Franklin
I don't never have any trouble in regulating my own conduct, but to keep other folks' straight is what bothers me. ~Josh Billings
Right 8:21?
Excellent comment 9:07 to bring the conversation back to earth.
Yes, why is the onus on parents?
The burden should be on the district to prove their fix for the math curriculum works.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. – Robert Heinlein
Now that we have gotten all the quotations out of the way and we shot all the messengers, we still have kids who are stuck with TERC Investigations. Now what? We have a school board and administration who aren't budging. As I said about two hundred comments ago, we are at a standoff.
Elaine
21 spiders have:
21 spiders
X 8 legs on one spider, see picture
---
168 legs total using the Standard Algorithm
Too bad the student got the problem wrong using the TERC Investigations method.
Common Core does not require proficiency with multiplication using the standard algorithm (step-by-step procedure for calculations) until grade 5, a grade behind the expectations of the high-performing states and our international competitors.
http://www.educationnews.org/education-policy-and-politics/the-pedagogical-agenda-of-common-core-math-standards/
Too bad kids can't do long division at the end of fourth grade, but the school board child advocates won't speak up when the are needed. They just keep promoting the teachers agendas. What do you expect from a school board president with a mom that taught math at Mount Lebanon High School?
Here's something I would like to see residents and the traditional math premed try.
Listen very closely to Mr. Capucci's comments after Mr. Wood's presentation. IMO she pretty much slammed the door shut on any further conversation.
Then pay close attention to Mr. Lebowitz's comments on the gaps in the math program.
I saw them as two very divergent opinions on the matter.
I thought Mr. L had the right perspective. Teachers and Administrators aren't infallible. Math programs as we've seen historically often don't deliver long term.
Larry I think had it right, but what bothered me was that he spoke to calm the parents. Shouldn't he have rather been speaking to Elaine? Trying to convince her that our 16 math pros can sometimes miss things. That parents are closer to their kids and see the results of their education more than a teacher that might spend 1 or 2 hours with the kid on math.
Just a thought after watching the board meeting one more time.
I saw 2 completely opposite positions. One director loses her ears. The other seemed to open his eyes.
On a somewhat related note!
More highly skilled workers could enter the U.S.
By Tracie Mauriello / Post-Gazette Washington Bureau
"Tuesday's proposal includes an additional fee of $1,250 to $2,500, depending on company size, to fund programs to train domestic workers in science, technology, engineering and math -- known together by the acronym STEM."
""Having a lot of high-skilled immigrants is a temporary fix. The logic behind the fees is that we need to train our own American workforce for the jobs of today and tomorrow so that we don't have to rely so much on H-1B visa holders," said Neil G. Ruiz, senior policy analyst for the Brookings Institute and lead author of the nonprofit think tank's July report.
His report showed that the greatest demand for H-1B visas are from companies in New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania."
So perhaps on the topic that our preparation of students is lacking, Mr. Lebowitz has some specific insight as to why American companies need to import workers fluent in math.
Mr. Cooper needs to climb down off his high horse!
What the woman said about teacher's not wanting to speak up is true, but it's impossible to prove because they know they'll become a pariah if they do.
Don't you roll your eyes at me, Anonymous 9:15 AM!
http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20121231/NEWS03/312310023/Survey-will-allow-teachers-speak-up
"Delaware public school educators have a new way to make their voices heard with a program starting next month that allows them to give feedback anonymously on conditions at their schools.
Information from an online survey called Teaching, Empowering, Leading and Learning Delaware will be shared with the public for every school where at least half the educators respond to the survey. State officials say they plan to use the data to make more informed policy and funding decisions.
Delaware joins about 20 other states that are using surveys to determine conditions at schools by asking educators in those buildings to provide feedback. Questions on the survey will seek information on a variety of topics, including school leadership, use of time, new teacher support and professional development."
"It is important for teachers to know that information they provide will be anonymous, Jenner said. There have been many steps taken to ensure that an individual educator’s response can’t be traced back, she said."
Now don't roll your eyes Mr. Cooper! You're a pretty 'smart' guy, tell us why Delaware would find it necessary to allow anonymous contributions from it's teachers?
OMG! It was pointed out to me that in the "How Far From 100"teacher guide, there is a mistake!!! The number closest to 100 is not 127! It is 126!!!
Elaine
That is a hoot!
I wonder how many kids ever came up with the correct number 126 and the teachers told them they had the wrong answer?
12:07....
I know for a fact that if MLSD was included in on this anonymous survey the flood gates would open with responses and the taxpaying public would finally hear some truth....the bubble would burst!
Oh no 6:29, Mr. Cooper was quite emphatic that our teachers have nothing bad to say about the district, the administrators or the curriculum. Nor would they be afraid of repercussions if they did.
Geez, do you think he'd say that if it wasn't true?
I haven't decided which is more ironic. A math book that has a wrong answer in the teacher guide or an anonymous poster who doesn't even know the difference between "its" and "it's" complaining about poor quality education in the local students.
Now don't roll your eyes Mr. Cooper! You're a pretty 'smart' guy, tell us why Delaware would find it necessary to allow anonymous contributions from it's teachers?
I say it's a tie. They're both pretty ridiculous.
Two observations:
1. As I'm sure most of you know, I am no fan of Investigations - I think the Three Stooges could have written a better math system. However, in all fairness, the mistake in the "How Far From 100" teacher's guide is nothing new. I have teachers' answer books from my math teaching days - well before TERC - and ALL of them have an error or two in their answer keys. (This is why you do the problems first before teaching a class in which those problems will appear!)
2. Since we've been told in a public school board meeting that the students are teaching the teacher new ways to do math, it is quite likely that the students would have caught the error..right? Well, the kids who were taught American algorithms probably would have!
1:36 there are typos a plenty here, in teachers' guides, on the school district website, MTL magazine that should keep you busy for quite some time.
Thank you for pointing out my poor keyboarding or should we in the 21st century,refer to imputing text on a smartphone, finger pointing.
Of course you find it necessary to blow a smoke screen at the more important question.
Why would a state, and I'm betting a number of the other 20, feel it necessary to allow anonymous contributions from teachers in those surveys?
Maybe Mr. Cooper is right, perhaps Mt. Lebanon is the only tiny island of integrity, honesty and the finest ethics in the world.
At any rate keep you eye on my text I'm sure auto correct and I will keep you occupied.
I don't claim to be an expert in grammar so I'll leave this up to those more proficient than I.
Is there an irony in 1:26 post?
"I haven't decided which is more ironic. A math book that has a wrong answer in the teacher guide or an anonymous poster who doesn't even know the difference between "its" and "it's" complaining about poor quality education in the local students."
Wouldn't it read better if they closed with - complaining about 'the' poor quality of education available for the local students?
"poor quality education in the local students" doesn't make any sense, does it?
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