I missed Monday's Commission Discussion Session about a program that is being considered by the Commission. It is called, "Pay As You Throw" (PAYT). I asked Matt Kluck and Kelly Fraasch about this back in January, after stumbling across this document Recycling Technical Assistance Project #509. I was concerned about another fee being issued. My question was, "Will we have to pay for garbage pick up?"
Matt replied with:
Elaine,
Only if the municipality decides to increase the frequency of recyclables collection or the state mandates it.
MK
Kelly replied with:
I will say after living in 6 states, we are behind in our collection systems. Part of our program is very broken and we are paying out the nose for it. If we can trim back some of these costs, I think it’s worth investigating...Remember we pay per pound for all our garbage. We pay a flat fee for recycling. It could help us to enhance and find incentives for recycling (residential and commercial).From Lebomag.com
Michele Nestor, president of Nestor Resources, a solid waste consulting and project management company, talked to the commission last night about the feasibility of introducing a pay-as-you-throw (PAYT) trash collection system here.Since I missed the meeting, I was hoping to learn more about the PAYT discussion here.
PAYT programs charge residents for trash collection based on how much trash they generate. According to the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, 213 municipalities in the state have some kind of PAYT program. The benefits of this kind of system are an increase in recycling, and residents are only charged for the amount of trash they generate.
Some of the challenges are, the need for creating a new billing system to accommodate the change, and residents could perceive it as a new tax. Also, “Disposal is already cheap here,” says Nestor. “About 75 percent of the cost of disposal is fuel and labor, and those trucks are going to roll down the street every day anyway.”
Some other possibilities to promote recycling are a program called Recycle Bank, where people receive grocery coupons and other incentives for decreasing their trash footprint. A drawback, says Nestor, is that there is a cost associated with the program, approximately $15 per household per year, and in one survey, about 50 percent of residents registered, and of those, only about 10 percent used the service on a regular basis. Some communities have had success with a “secret shopper” approach, where a trash-day inspection will reward one or a few residents each week for showing good recycling practices.
“Or, you could just give out bigger bins for recycling,” says Nestor, something that could be done as part of a campaign to educate residents more about the advantages of the single-stream recycling Mt. Lebanon currently employs. Public Works Director Tom Kelley mentioned that his department often received positive feedback following stories in mtl Magazine about various aspects of recycling.
Despite the potential resistance to the program (or anything new), Nestor believes that PAYT is the way of the future.
Commissioners were open to exploring the possibilities of increasing Mt. Lebanon’s recycling output while decreasing its landfill footprint. Both Kelly Fraasch and Kristen Linfante moved here from PAYT communities, and both expressed a desire to see it work here.
Mt. Lebanon and the rest of the communities in the South Hills Council of Governments will be negotiating a new trash and recycling contract this year.
For more information about pay as you throw options, check out the EPA’s website, http://www.epa.gov/epawaste/conserve/tools/payt/index.htm.
25 comments:
Haven't made an opinion pro or con for PAYT throw yet, but I do have several questions.
From Elaine's EPA link - "Traditionally, residents pay for waste collection through property taxes or a fixed fee, regardless of how much—or how little—trash they generate. Pay-As-You-throw (PAYT) breaks with tradition by treating trash services just like electricity, gas, and other utilities. Households pay a variable rate depending on the amount of service they use."
#1. if we go to PAYT will we see a reduction in our property taxes since garbage collection will no longer be paid for by the municipality?
#2. will we be able to shop around for the best collection rate like we can for gas and electricity.
#3. will we have cheapskates sneaking garbage into their unsuspecting neighbors cans late at night, to save a buck? We have garbage pickers now, could we have garbage 'putters' in the future? Plus, will PAYT cause more people to illegally dump garbage in woods and business dumpsters or park trash cans?
Plus if we go with a PATY plan that charges "by the can" rather than "by the pound" could we wind up having people hoard their garbage until they have a full can? Thus inviting rats and 'cooking' garbage odors from your neighbors half-full can sitting until its filled in the summer heat.
This sounds like a great idea, but I can see some issues that need to be resolved.
6:00 pm, I can answer question #1.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Are you serious?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Jack shouldn't we demand that they do?
Maybe the garbage company can give the fire department a $1,500 donation when we pay more for garbage disposal.
This sounds like the commissioners want more sports money.
Leave it to mtl magazine to promote this scheme.
I wonder why PAY AS YOU THROW (PAYT) is so enticing for the Commissioners when it comes to garbage collection. Their rational being you only pay for the garbage collection you use.
But, PAY AS YOU PLAY (PAYP) when it comes to fields and turf is an anathema!
Same thing regarding PAY AS YOU SUBSCRIBE (PASS) when it comes to Mt. Lebanon magazine. If they institute PAYT I don't think I should have to pay to throw out a magazine I don't want.
Oooops, PAY AS YOU SUBSCRIBE is PAYS not PASS.
Is this the new Mt. Lebanon set a fee for everything... except for turfed fields.
From The Almanac
"Angry that a new ordinance in Mt. Lebanon establishing a residential rental property registration and inspection program will cost them time and money, a large number of landlords voiced their displeasure to Mt. Lebanon commissioners at a Feb. 25 public hearing.
The bill was introduced Feb. 12 after Mt. Lebanon Fire Chief Nick Sohyda voiced concerns about safety hazards inside individual apartments in the municipality. The ordinance would charge $65 per inspection, and inspections will be done every three years or every time a new tenant moves into an apartment. The ordinance also requires landlords to register all tenant names and phone numbers with the municipality. The ordinance only applies to multiple apartment complexes, and does not extend to single family homes, commercial properties or co-op units."
2:47 AM, looks like all the fees are keeping you up at night.
I see the logic behind this, but in reality, I think it is a bad idea. What do you do with residents who will not use garbage cans with lids, or no garbage cans at all? The crows, raccoons, and worse, love our street. We have chicken bones all over the place.
Elaine
http://www.nestorresources.com/recycling%20support2.htm
Generating Political Support for Recycling
How to Think like a Municipal Official
September 2005
By Lorah Utter,
September 9, 2005
It is important to “think like a municipal official” when attempting to generate political support for recycling, consultant Michele Nestor, president of Nestor Resources Inc. said during the National Recycling Coalition’s 24th Annual Congress & Exposition in late August.
In the session “Reaching Critical Masses: Creating Political Support for Recycling,” Nestor said officials don’t want their phones to ring with problems, they don’t like bad press, they like to be recognized for accomplishments, they want to sound like they know what they’re talking about, they like photo opportunities and they want to get re-elected.
Nestor worked with Cranberry Township, Penn., a rural community which grew 30 percent in 10 years, but still had no ban on burning, and continued to have unlimited waste collection, with garbage being picked up every day by five different companies. There was curbside recycling, but there was no consistency of service.
Nestor Resources transformed this system into one in which burning was banned, and a pay as you throw structure was implemented with multiple carts for waste, recyclables and yard trimmings. Additionally, they went from five haulers to one hauler, significantly reducing the number of garbage trucks on the roads.
Within the first quarter of the program, the residential participation rate in the program rose from 57 percent to 98 percent, and the residential recovery rate rose from a low of nine percent to 40 percent. They also saved the municipality five to 15 million dollars in the process.
“Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer”
Nestor said they accomplished this by thinking like a municipal official, as discussed above. She said it’s also important to do the following:
- “Know all of the costs associated with the project before you go in,” perhaps broken down by household or person;
- “Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer;”
- “Provide a forum for the vocal minority to speak such as focus groups or forums,” so you can plan your campaign with their objections in mind.
Nestor said in Cranberry Township, the vocal minority wanted choice, not just one hauler. So they focused on choice with the variable rate program in the pay as you throw system. This enabled them to dilute the message of the vocal minority.
Nestor also believes in enlisting the news media as advocates. She gave them advance briefings with facts, figures and quotable quotes. She also pointed them toward similar successes and organized photo opportunities.
To engage the private sector, Nestor recommends presenting the proposal as a business opportunity. The private sector loses income if there is less waste to landfill, so she convinced them that by cutting yard waste out of the municipal solid waste stream, it would help them avoid seasonal increases and decreases in the amount of waste they collect.
When asked how to keep public forums from becoming unruly, Nestor admitted she was once led out by armed guards a long time ago. She then made the following suggestions:
- Have people register when they come in;
- Have break-out session with smaller groups which are easier for a moderator to handle;
- Don’t have presentations that lead the community by the nose to the “right” choice;
- Have those who wish to speak walk up one at a time to a podium with a microphone and identify themselves;
- Provide lots of information.
- Have plenty of "What the Kluck" signs on hand (This last one was not from the article - but could have been from someone's commissioner)
9:05 AM, I disowned my commissioner and adopted Kelly Fraasch. My estranged commissioner will make quite a Commission president next year.
Elaine
This could be a really good thing for the community. We talk about proactive measures on this blog and this would be one. Commissioners need to ask the right questions and find the right system for Mount Lebanon. I did have a reduction in my property taxes after the system was implemented in my hometown. It does take time. Our town did tags on the garbage only. The question is which Commissioner is leading the effort? Who would everyone trust enough to change such a large system in Mount Lebanon?
10:22 was the reduction in your property taxes in your hometown EQUAL to the cost the cost of garbage collection before PAYT?
Second, if this is indeed an excesercise in saving the environment one element should be... allow residents to stop companies from throwing junk on their lawns. Such as - if you don't read or want MTL magazine or The Almanac you should be able to put a stop to it.
It would save trees, fuel and money!
Second Nestor Resources reminds me of another consultant... DeJong. Where know where that one lead us.
Just thought of something. When you have a block party which homeowner gets stuck with the garbage bill?
11:53 AM, probably the same person who pays the block party fee.
Elaine
Is this another agenda from our left-coast green weenies?
I believe it is 12:50. Those free spending, left coast green weenies.
I don't get it.... "Some of the challenges are, the need for creating a new billing system to accommodate the change, and residents could perceive it as a new tax. Also, “Disposal is already cheap here,” says Nestor. “About 75 percent of the cost of disposal is fuel and labor, and those trucks are going to roll down the street every day anyway.”
Disposal here is "relatively cheap" and the trucks are going to "roll down the street anyway."
So what's the point? Oh yeah save the environment. Gotta have somewhere to dump all this MTL magazines, plastic turf and hydrocarbons from coal burning power plants that generate electricity for all those stadium athletic field lights... right?
I recommend the following article by Ronald Bailey of the Reason Foundation: Recycling Madness -- U.K. Version
Crony Capitalism often pops up in the strangest places, and some companies have learned how to game the system - particularly when it comes to "environmental issues." Mt. Lebanon needs to investigate a number of other solutions to trash collection before making any final decisions. I have sent the commissioners Reason Foundation studies that incorporate the subject of trash collection, along with recommendations for same.
Politicians often think of their constituents as "the lowest common denominator" and unable to make wise decisions; forgetting that they, the politicians, are people too! Making trash collection compliance more difficult for homeowners is likely to have some serious, unintended, consequences. And while it is my policy not to engage anonymous posters directly, I am curious to know the "hometown" mentioned in the March 2, 2013 at 10:22 AM post.
"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?"...Frédéric Bastiat
Yes Richard, thanks for the linked article.
That was one of the reasons I asked if we go to a PAYT systems would we be allowed to shop for our own garbage collector?
If there is all in one can garbage collector and you prefer that system (even if you have to pay a premium) why shouldn't you have that choice if you are tasked with paying for the service yourself?
What's next, the municipality telling us you must buy a Chevy Volt or shop exclusively at Trader Joe's?
If it's no longer a situation where taxpayers pool all their money together for one convenient hauler, what business does the municipality have telling me whom to write the check to?
Apparently, Nestor doesn't like the idea since she convinced Cranberry to limit collection to one company from 5.
Color me skeptical.
This looks like a solution looking for a problem.
Even if we receive a dollar-for-dollar property tax reduction, the Municipality would consider it a HUGE win, because it will be off the hook for future hauler rate increases. Pushing stuff off-budget is an example of government speak for risk management -- at least for the governing -- without regard for the governed.
Another thing ...
I hear the cries for fairness, when neighbor A throws more trash out this week than Neighbor B. But my guess is over time, there is a pretty tight distribution of trash in a family's lifecycle. Collective hauling and paying might be effective and efficient risk management for the governed.
Another thing ...
If the Commission wanted to do something about fairness, they could start by doing something about the fact that while Neighbor A is throwing out more trash, Neighbor B is paying property taxes based on an assessment close to their recent purchase price, unlike Neighbor A.
Which inequity is more inequitable?
Lastly...
Ms. Nestor did make some cogent remarks about recycling more -- whenever/wherever possible -- and further that the Municipality should continue to support this honorable goal with broad based education.
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle remains the key.
Just imagine the Commission and Staff starring in a video like:
http://livinggreenmag.com/2012/09/06/video/reduce-reuse-recycle-three-rs-song/
One more thing ...
11:53 makes a good point.
"if this is indeed an exercise in saving the environment one element should be... allow residents to stop companies from throwing junk on their lawns."
This afternoon I picked up my freshly minted yellow pages laying on my driveway.
Which, along with its plastic bag, will be discarded without the prospect of ever being used.
The yellow pages, have not quite met the obsolescence of buggy whips -- however, they are well on their way.
it is outrageous there are business models making money -- up and down the yellow pages stream -- throwing unwanted stuff in our driveways.
We are inconvenienced by the book -- and if that is not enough -- we pay the cost of disposal.
Can we pass an ordinance where behavior like this gets you in front of Magisterial District Judge Blaise Larotonda, for littering on private property?
A $15.00 fine, for every unwanted yellow pages would have one of two desirable outcomes: 1) Reduce yellow pages distribution or 2) Raise a whole bunch of revenue to offset the cost of disposal.
Commissioners -- here is a problem looking for a solution.
Please put on your thinking cap!
Forgot about that one Bill since no one in our household has used a hard copy phonebook for years.
How much ink, paper, gas, electricity would be saved by eliminating both the hard copy versions of the Yelllow Pages and MTL magazine?
Anyone from the Environmental Sustainability Board want totackle that question?
Mr. Matthews, I suspect one of the reasons Nestor makes the argument for knocking Cranberry down from 5 trash haulers ones that it eliminates the opportunity for residents to shop around for the best rate or best service that meets their pocketbook.
Competition would help hold down future increases. Our elected officials are blowing smoke.
Check out this video on Recycling from Penn & Teller. It's pretty informative and certainly entertaining. There are three parts. Be warned it does contain some adult language.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzLebC0mjCQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wS1dv3iat8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvz-z7CvsYA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I take all my newspapers to recycling boxes at the local churches. Phone books are not accepted there. I have tried to opt out of phone book deliveries and haven't had any luck with that. I just recycled my MTL Magazine without even opening it. I can read those articles on Facebook, Lebomag.com, or mtlebanon.org. Why do we need it delivered too?
Elaine
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