Latest LeboALERT announced that the Commission will be reviewing the draft sidewalk expansion policy at the Discussion Session on Monday, August 26, 2013. Starting time is usually around 6:30 PM. The actual starting time will be listed on the Discussion Session Agenda, which should be available this Friday.
The draft is available here. Send questions or comments to the commission. It looks rather complex to me, but I am not an attorney. I hope it is what people have been asking for. I guess the big question is, "At whose expense?"
35 comments:
They can't properly repair the sidewalks they have but they want new ones. They can have mine.
I am going to attend a commision meeting and request sidewalks along both sides of Lindendale - from end to end. We have a lot of pedestrian traffic. Too many people walk in the middle of the street. Pedestrian traffic in the middle of a busy street isn't safe. Lindendale is a cool street - it's a snow emergency route so we get plowed first, and it is a critical ambulance route for St Clair Hospital. Sidewalks would enhance the street and the neighborhood tremendously!
John David Kendrick
I don't live on Lindendale, but I use it often on my way to work, so I agree with Mr. Kendrick.
The cars whip by at a very fast pace while children romp nearby in their yards. Few motorists seem to obey the posted speed limit.
Put in sidewalks there before there's a tragedy.
Children should romp in their yards, not the street.
@4:59 Lebo residents are responsible for maintaining the sidewalks on their property.
12:38 PM, the children I've seen playing on Lindendale ARE playing in their yards, but the cars fly by at an astounding rate. The soft curbs would do nothing to stop a vehicle from roaring into someone's yard.
The street is curvy, hilly and winding. If I lived there, I think I would make my kids play in the backyard.
12:49, They can have my sidewalk for repair or replacement.
How hard is it for drivers to obey posted residential street speed limits and stop signs. Cheaper than curbs. mandated by law and inherently logical.
If you're driving thru a MTL neighborhood it is highly likely you'll be sharing the road with bikers, joggers, kids and the occassional deer or squirrel.
Though it seems our beloved bubble gets squirrelier everyday, but that is another matter.
A 6" high curb/sidewalk won't protect all of the above or you.
So get off the damn cell phone, slow down and pay attention!
Those solutions that are proven to save lives don't cost a dime.
Is there a recent epidemic of pedestrians/kids run down on neighborhood streets without sidewalks? A lot of these walkless streets were constructed after WWII.
How do the number of pedestrian accidents on walkless streets compare to those with walks?
I don't get it, but I find the proposal fair. If your street wants sidewalks and are willing to pay for them, go for it.
I live on Mayfair Drive. Cars zip down the street at least 60 MPH. The past 4 weeks we have skate boarders below Virginia Way. When they first started this, way younger kids before Virginia Way started they're skateboarding. They were as young as 5 years old. Did not see any parents out there supervising! Potential accidents were obvious! Why are the parents absent? I have been so temptedbt alert the police!
I want to comment some more about Lindendale...
What I don't understand is why our municipal government is powerless to stop the vegetation that is growing into the roadway on Lindendale. The brush and tree limbs often obstruct the flow of traffic and emergency vehicles traveling to the hospital - not to mention forcing many pedestrians into the street where they have to dodge traffic.
I called the Public Works department and asked them to please clear the highway. The response that I dot from the secretary was, "We will take a look and see if it is our responsibility. If if is, we will remove it."
Is there nothing that can be done? Are we really that helpless as a community?
We have collapsed walls onto the sidewalks (on the small random sections that have sidewalks), retaining walls collapsing on areas adjacent to the roadway, tree limbs, vines and giant weeds blocking the flow of the traffic and no local ordinances have been violated? Nobody is responsible?
It's hard to believe.
Lindendale is one example. There are others.
Personally, I'd love to see a sidewalk up and down both sides of Lindendale - from end to end. I think that Ward 5 needs to become more pedestrian friendly.
John David Kendrick
One more thing...
Something that I learned living in Chicago...
We can create municipal parks in the middle of residential intersections that are prone to rush-hour traffic.
I watched many Chicago suburbs employ this tactic successfully.
The traffic was forced onto the main thoroughfare, residential property values soared and the residents lived in peace.
Maybe that's way 75% of Oak Park residents retire in Oak Park - somebody got off their ass and did something that made a difference!
John David Kendrick
8:54 Either you complain about parents supervising everything kids do, or you complain that they don't supervise enough. Remember the comments, "we went outside everyday and didn't return until the street lights came on"?...you know the good old days. Didn't kids skateboard in the 60's without parental supervision?
Mayfair Drive is not alone....there are many other residential streets where drivers are going way over the speed limit.
Here are a few that I have noticed:
Woodland
Beadling
Scrubgrass
Roycroft
North Meadowcroft
Kelso
Bower Hill (especially the section from Cochran to Washington)
Scott
Cedar
Some of these same streets have a lot of cars parked on them even though driveways are sitting empty.
@8:54 Please note that skateboarding on the streets of Mt. Lebanon is illegal.
The speed limit on Bower Hill is posted at 35 - which most drivers take as the "minimum speed."
I lived on Bower Hill Road, near Kelso, from 1975 until 1984. During that time there were at least six incidents that I can remember of cars going off the road, over the sidewalk, and into either a tree, house, or utility pole. One night we heard a "bang" and I looked out the window to see a pickup truck smashed into a utility pole across from my house. As my wife called the cops, I went over to investigate, expecting to see a dead man. He was drunk and "sleeping it off" when I got there. Another time a car containing two young girls ended up in our side yard. The driver had lost control. I was at work at the time, but my wife was home, and said the police found them hiding down over our hillside. The young lady driver - who had no license - kept saying "My dad is going to kill me!" Yeah.
Walkers have their own problems. Just recently I saw an old fellow leave the sidewalk and dash across Bower Hill Road in order to get to the Post Office; a Coca-Cola truck almost took him out! The guy could have crossed at the light, but apparently that was too much trouble for him.
Some streets are logical candidates for sidewalks and some are not. Sidewalks certainly separate walking from motoring traffic - and if residents along a particular route what them, fine; but one must remember that sidewalks are no guarantee of safety. Safety is a function of the human brain.
As long as both drivers AND walkers observe the common sense "rules of the road" the likelihood of an accident is diminished. But that's the thing, isn't it?
Not true, 7:29 AM. http://mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/View/9280
Elaine
Maybe all Mt Lebanon residents should visit a used car dealer and buy the cheapest, barely legal car on the lot?
The purchaser doesn't need to ever drive the car for anything other than getting an inspection and taking it home from the dealer. When the car arrives home the residents can legally park the car in the street and leave it there.
Imagine every Mt Lebanon street littered with cars parked on both sides of the street. What impact would this have on traffic?
I'll just bet that those folks ripping though Mt Lebanon on their way to Peters or Upper St Clair would slow way down! If they didn't we'd have a big increase in demand for body shop services in the South Hills!
John David Kendrick
Would sidewalks be installed on both sides of the street or only the side where 100% of property owners vote for sidewalks, or the street is ranked or classified as an "A" ? The proposed policy is mute on this very important aspect.
It seems that this policy would permit the installation of sidewalks on any street or portion of a street even if it is ranked "C" and/or less than 75% of property owners petition for sidewalks if the cops, manager or Brumfield say they should be sidewalked ? Correct ? If so, the policy is crap and typical heavy handed Lebo !
Some of you may not remember what a hot issue the sidewalks were back in the early 1990's.
I remember calling John Fernsler after he wrote a letter to the editor of The Almanac. I had to tell him how much I enjoyed reading his letter about "the diatribe" (John's words). John said that he was happy that I was amused and then he explained many of the issues and the public distortion of the facts.
The problem is that we still have the same problems 25 years or so later...
What I don't understand is how Mt Lebanon can require some property owners to have sidewalks, and those who have sidewalks to maintain them; but at the same time tell those who don't have a sidewalk to "forget about it".
It really doesn't make sense in Mt Lebanon or any other community that has one house with a sidewalk three others that don't, four more with, two without, etc - all on the same street. What were they thinking? Someone would walk down the street, walk 50' on sidewalk, walk 300' down the street, 25' on a sidewalk, etc.
What kind of community have we permitted to evolve from local government run amuck?
John David Kendrick
Mr. Kenrick makes some good points. What is that old expression---what's good for the goose is good for the gander?
We all understand that this was farm country when Mt. Lebanon was laid out. However, that era has long since been gone. Our streets are clogged with parked and moving vehicles and we have become a pass-through community for many on their way to USC and Washington County. We need to face up to this.
7:29, skateboarding on most streets in Lebo in a safe manner is legal on most streets.
The ordinance was revised in February 2013.
Mr. Kendrick,
What manager do you know in Mt. Lebanon who " got off their ass and did something that made a difference!"
Please name just one.
Mr Kendrick,
You remember Commissioner John Fernsler who wanted to pave Mt. Lebanon. He told the community the cost would be $2,000,000. He lied! A group of local businessmen put together a real cost estimate of $12,000,000. When the news hit the residents Mr. Fernsler soon left the commission and moved far away- but not far enough.
Hi 3:57,
I've lived in Mt Lebanon since 1976:
* I liked Bill Baldwin.
* I liked Glenn Smartschan.
- and that's about it.
A few years ago I was visiting a cabinet maker in Cannonsburg. The older man that I was speaking with bolted from the community after his kids graduated from the High School. He told me that he moved back to Canonsburg. he thought Mt Lebanon taxes were crazy.
I asked him what he thought of Mt Lebanon. He told me that his kids all got scholarship money for college, but aside from that he didn't like the school district. He said that the police did a good job (and I agreed, we have an excellent police department). He said that when it came to the public works, well, I'll just paraphrase that he said something about pulling a thumb out of something to put the other one in was the extent of the work that gets done.
I don't know if it's that bad or not, but I can't help but think that we have a lot of people working in Public Works versus the condition of our community. we may be better off outsourcing the services to the private sector.
Of course, that gets me started on the need for an institutionalized process for realignment, outsourcing and review - something like the Federal A-76 Process, but that's for another topic and I've rambled enough already.
John David Kendrick
Hi 4:10,
I didn't see your post earlier.
I didn't know about the $12MM or John moving out of town like you described.
Truthfully, I didn't know the man very well other than nodding heads when I would see him downtown or in Mt Lebanon.
I remember Mr. Fernsler being the head of the Republican Committee and then resigning when he was elected to the Commission. I also remember that he had a genuine interest in government, he was a solicitor for the parking authority and he held a position at Reed Smith.
... and that is really all that I know.
The sidewalks were a tremendous controversy and John lost the battle. I think that the deciding vote to kill the whole thing came from my Ward 5 Commissioner, Dick Walker. But, I am just reciting what I remember, and someone can correct me if I am wrong.
John Fernsler told the community two things when he departed his position on the commission: (1) that Mt Lebanon needed to think about increasing commercial development in order to support the tax base (and I agree with his position through today); and (2) something to the effect that talented people wouldn't serve in local government if they were going to be humiliated and insulted.
I suppose I can relate to the second point, but I also think that our elected representatives earn the respect of the electorate by respecting the wishes of the community. Respect comes from reciprocity - something that is missing from the arrogant school board that managed to polarize our community, or various other public figures in Mt Lebanon.
We don't have reciprocity and we don't have sidewalks either.
- and I don't think that I will ever see either one in my lifetime.
Take care,
John David Kendrick
Mr. Kendrick,
Integrity and common sense are missing at the municipality. The swimming pool contract has a $150,000 penalty clause against the municipality if they dId not award the contract to the bidder. Our elected representatives were not told about the penalty until the meeting where they had to vote. Your commissioner voted to accept a cost overrun of more than three tines the penalty. That is poor government at its finest.
We need a manager to babysit the commissioners, an adult to babysit the Manager, and the individual who put the penalty clause in the contract should be FIRED IMMEDIATELY, and the swimming pool contract should be TOTALLY DUMPED!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too bad Fernsler didn't leave until after he and *a few* of his neighbors talked ML into buying the Twin Hills Park albatross. He moved to the middle of the state; don't know if he's still there.
But I do know that the Twin Hills deal means we will be dealing with the tremendous water runoff from Scott's Chatham Park complex. Water runs downhill, remember?
Monday's Commission Agenda shows that the commissioners will "assign $100,000 from the unassigned fund balance for new sidewalk installation projects eligible under the sidewalk installation policy."
Elaine
Where do we sign up for citizen comments? Do they still permit citizen remarks?
The agenda also calls for recognition of Marcia Taylor's outstanding service to Mt Lebanon.
The commissioners are going to discuss the sidewalk policy at the Discussion Session, which starts at 6:30 PM in Conference Room C. We are allowed to sit and listen to their discussion, but we are not allowed to speak.
The regular meeting starts at 8 PM in the Commission Chambers. After the Pledge of Allegiance and Dan Miller recognizes Marcia Taylor, Mt. Lebanon residents will be allowed to comment, after stating their name and address. Comments are limited to five minutes. The sign up sheet is in the back of the Commission Chambers. President Kluck will call your name. Hope that helps.
Elaine
Number 8 on the Agenda:
Consideration of sidewalk installation policy.
The policy outlines a procedure by which residents on municipally-maintained streets without sidewalks may petition the municipality for financial support to install new sidewalks to connect to existing sidewalks.
Recommended Action: Move to approve the policy.
Elaine
Thank you Elaine!
See you at the meeting!!!
... and I promise that I won't sit on your tape recorder... ;)
John Kendrick
Article 8 of the sidewalk draft says the Commission will decide who is priority ranked f(A or B orC) or sidewalks and what the financial assistance is too.
I wonder how big the campaign donation has to be to put you on the A list with the max financial contribution?
Mr. Franklin didn't contribute enough for his turf to get priority over the first swimming pool contract. How much did that sign bring in Mr. Franklin? Wasn't it $500? Would $500 even put lines on one field?
Sports Fan
This thread is about the sidewalk policy. Let's try to stay on topic. Thanks.
Elaine
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