Why are Deiseroth, Bendel and Brumfield inviting McNitt, who has a PARTNERSHIP WITH FIELDTURF at Penn State, to the community forum on the safety of synthetic turf?
TALK ABOUT BIAS
Darren Gill, Director of Marketing for Fieldturf, stated that Fieldturf looked for a university partner who can augment what is currently being done internally. “Truth be told, when we sought out this partnership, we only had one partner in mind, and that was Penn State, largely because of Dr. McNitt.”
In July 2009, Fieldturf launched the Center for Sports Surface Research within the Department of Crop and Soil Sciences in the College of Agricultural Sciences at Penn State.
NOTHING BIASED ABOUT THIS $11,000 PUBLIC FORUM
By the way, if Gateway doesn't attend the forum will the price go down to $2500?
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| After an entire day of rain on Thursday, it's Play Ball at Middle Field last night at 6 PM. Why do we need turf? |
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| Right here in Mt. Lebanon... |
Update May 18, 2014 11:15 AM Mt. Lebanon will have experts talk turf with residents (Saved in Google Docs)
Update May 18, 2014 11:32 AM A number of anti-turf yard signs have been stolen out of people's yards. Charlotte Stephenson sent this letter to the Commission early this morning.
| From: | Charlotte Stephenson |
| To: | Commission <commission@mtlebanon.org> |
| Cc: | Dan Miller <DMiller@pahouse.net>; Coleman McDonough <cmcdonough@mtlebanon.org> |
| Subject: | Anti-turf Project Yard Signs |
| Date: | Sun, May 18, 2014 12:57 am |
Dear Mt. Lebanon Commissioners,
A number of anti-artificial turf project yard signs have been stolen from residents' yards over the last 48 hours. These residents have paid for their signs and the signs are personal property.
I initiated a police report with Officer O'Brien this evening regarding the theft of my sign and he has placed my complaint into the records. In the event that those who are stealing personal property in our municipality are caught, they will be held to the same standard as any other criminals who steal. My police report will lend credence to future complaints and our police department will be on the lookout for this kind of activity.
Those of you who are closely aligned with the pro-turf enthusiasts (Commissioners Bendel, Brumfield, Linfante and Silverman) may want to consider passing this message along to them so they know that these acts have not gone unnoticed. Additionally, I received a message from an elderly resident telling me that she was very upset because her second sign was stolen from her yard yesterday. She stated that she has never known Mt. Lebanon to be a risky place in the past and she is disillusioned and feels somewhat threatened by this. Residents are asking if certain Commissioners are involved with these acts.
Whoever is doing this is only placing those of you who are spearheading this turf project in a poor light with our residents. You will be held responsible in the public eye. I suggest you do what you can to protect the freedom of speech for those of us who do not agree with your policy.
I am copying Representative Miller on this because he is a resident, and a champion of open honest debate rather than the stifling of opposing views, as is the case of this conduct. I have also blind copied a number of residents on this e-mail, particularly those who have anti-turf yard signs, so they know what is going on.
Sincerely,
Charlotte Stephenson
Update May 18, 2014 5:47 PM Sign found on Roycroft, near Kristen Linfante's house.
Please sign this petition if you want to halt public funds for use of artificial turf at Wildcat and Middle Fields.
Update May 18, 2014 5:47 PM Sign found on Roycroft, near Kristen Linfante's house.
Please sign this petition if you want to halt public funds for use of artificial turf at Wildcat and Middle Fields.
82 comments:
Ubelievable!
Thanks to our Founding Fathers that they had the foresight to establish the Bill of Rights that guarantee free speech and a free press. Too bad the major local papers have lost their way on their obligation to seek out the truth.
Elaine deserves a Pulitzer for her tenacity and her investigative reporting.
Maybe if nothing else maybe an online journalism award some day.
http://journalists.org/awards/
The photo proves the crap the turf nuts are feeding us is definitely BS ! I'll bet however that the Dixon parking lot probably flooded, as previous photos showed, because the storm water system along Cedar is already overloaded. And they want to add 3 more acres (2.4 acres of turf + 0.6 acres of parking lot) worth of storm water runoff into this failing sewer system ?
They should all go to jail !
Caption ask "Why do we need turf!"
Because in my opinion, certain commissioners and the SAB probably believe that turf will allow Friday's games to be played on the previous Wednesday. Makes about as much sense as saying this location allows for 60% more game slots when it barely fits one regulation college-level lacrosse/soccer field.
No, no, no, 9:03 AM. It is a group effort. The investigative reporting is thanks to YOU, the readers of Lebo Citizens. I just make it available for everyone to read.
This is from the FieldTurf website.
Read what is on Andrew McNitt's LinkedIn profile.
Elaine
It would be nice if Brumfield, Bendel and diesroft presented both sides of the grass vs turf debate.
http://turf.uark.edu/research/refereed.html
http://turf.uark.edu/turfhelp/archives/021109.html
Be sure to ask McNitt about this research paper he published.
http://plantscience.psu.edu/research/centers/ssrc/documents/temperature-irrigation.pdf
He wrote in 2008: "researchers have concluded that the heat transfer from from the surface [of artificial turf] is enough to contribute to greater physiological stress that may result in heat related health problems."
Then added on the effects of watering the turf to cool it down: "these low temperatures could not be maintained for periods of time equal to the length of standard sporting events."
I wonder, has he changed his opinion since enterimg into a partnership with FieldTurf?
After careful reading of McNitt's paper some questions need to be asked that if we if irrigate the turfed field to cool it as McNitt did in his reseach— up to 200 minutes— 1. do we substantially reduce the amount of time available for game slots if fields must be cooled down before each game and
2. Do we increase 'maintenance' costs. Who takes care of the water schedule- (a new PWs employee?) and who pays the water bill?
Remember this controversial Penn State researcher?
"Michael Mann Retracts False Nobel Prize Claims in Humiliating Climbdown
Disgraced Penn State University (PSU) climatologist, Michael Mann, concedes defeat in his bogus claims to be a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Mann’s employer this weekend began the shameful task of divesting itself of all inflated claims on university websites and official documentation that Mann was ever a Peace Prize recipient with Al Gore and the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."
http://johnosullivan.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/michael-mann-retracts-false-nobel-prize-claims-in-humiliating-climbdown/Remember this controversial Penn State researcher?
"Michael Mann Retracts False Nobel Prize Claims in Humiliating Climbdown
Disgraced Penn State University (PSU) climatologist, Michael Mann, concedes defeat in his bogus claims to be a Nobel Peace Prize winner. Mann’s employer this weekend began the shameful task of divesting itself of all inflated claims on university websites and official documentation that Mann was ever a Peace Prize recipient with Al Gore and the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change."
http://johnosullivan.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/michael-mann-retracts-false-nobel-prize-claims-in-humiliating-climbdown/
10:47 AM, Dave Franklin and Dave Brumfield stated that it does not get that hot in Pittsburgh and that irrigation will not be needed here. A JT Saur employee was sitting next to me during a Commission Discussion Session when this was mentioned. He said that irrigation creates too much humidity. These guys like to cherry pick.
I would love to know why Mt. Lebanon is spending $4 million on the swimming pool if it doesn't get that hot here.
Elaine
Certainly, nothing disgraceful happens involving football at Penn State. Talk about losing credibility...
Elaine
Where did McNitt do his temperature studies - the Sahara? I don't think so.
Franklin and Brumfield in my opinion are idiots if they said that.
The heat island effect and heat transfer from the surface of artificial turf is a genuine health risk and Franklin and Brumfield are lying when they say it does not get that hot in Pittsburgh. We have numerous 90 degree days and some 100 degree days in Pittsburgh every summer. On one of those 95 degree summer days when my daughter was in middle school, she went to the high school track at 9am to run laps. She was participating in the summer rec program and track was from 9-10 am. I got a phone call sometime before 10 from someone at the athletic office informing me that my daughter had collapsed at the track and to come and pick her up in the training room. When I got there she was laying on a training table, clutching her water bottle and looking extremely pale. She had been overcome my heat while running on the track at 9 in the morning. I took her home, got her into air-conditioning and gave her cold fluids throughout the day. She was fine but it was very scary and could easily have turned into a tragedy. That was an extremely hot summer and it was already 85-90 degrees that early in the morning so it was probably over 100 on the track and turf. She dropped track from her rec schedule and did dance inside at the rec center, broomball inside at the ice rink and sand volleyball in the park. She never had another heat related problem after dropping track.
McNitt states on a 37 C day turf surface temperatures can reach 93 C (199.4 F)!
37 degrees Celsius is 98.6 degrees Farenheit.
His study also states artificial temps can range 35-60 C higher than the ambient air temperatures.
So on a 78 degree Farenheit day, the field could reach between 113-138 degrees Farenheit.
On an 85 degree day that means turf could reach between 120-145 degrees.
Yeah, Franklin and Brumfield it never gets sunny and over 77 degrees in Mt. Lebanon.
Here's a fund raising idea again. If Franklin and Brumfield will run around on the HS turf at noon on an 85 degree day for 3 hours residents will pledge the $250,000 for their turf.
145 degree turf-- hmmmm, more game slots lost?!
What do you think folks? It could be one way to stop their push for artificial turf!
Let me see if I read this right.
We're paying $11,000 for essentially a FieldTurf dog and pony show? And Gateway is getting a cut?
FieldTurf should be footing the bill for this presentation, not the taxpayer!!!!!!
At least the people that try to sell you swamp land in Florida give you a couple of days free in their resort as they try to pick your pocket.
Maybe FieldTurf should throw a Texas style BarBQ in the park with all the fixin's and plenty of brewski's to make their pitch. Mt. Lebanonites love their Brewfest, get 'em drunk enough and perhaps they'll buy Persian rugs for the fields if Franklin and Brumfield want them.
These lawyers sure are a slippery bunch, but they will be outsmarted in the end.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practise to deceive"
Old Sir Walter nailed it (for the Posti-types who read this, that would be Sir Walter Scott and the line is from Marmion. See, it's not that difficult to cite your work unless, of course, it's ghost-written "anonymous" email.)
We all a huge debt to Elaine for her work. She doesn't get paid for this blog. She doesn't get accolades from officials. She just does it. Also, there are those intrepid hard-working readers who contribute on a routine basis. They get a round of applause as well.
I don't have much to say except keep it up. When people are being unscrupulous or dishonest, they tend to act defensively at the very hint of a contrasting opinion, especially one supported by facts. The input and research generated by this blog is shedding more and more sunlight on the behavior of the Commission. What they're doing is disgusting, childish and something we expect from third world countries, not a self-proclaimed "destination" suburb (which is in question now because of ever-increasing taxes, declines in both school enrollment and performance and a lower media income than our "rival" neighborhoods. Not exactly a recipe for labeling ourselves elite, eh Mizz Morgans?)
The four Commissioners are on the defensive because of the blanket of sleaze and deception they have tossed over our community. And they might get their way. There might actually be turf installed on the Cedar fields. All I can say is to Mrs Linfante and Mssrs Bendel, Brumfield and Silverman-- IS this what you really wanted? Is this how you want to be remembered after you're voted out? A tenure of dishonesty? Well, so be it. Then keep charging ahead. It might be a short-term "win" for you but in the end, you still lose.
Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. — George Washington
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=155678&print=1
"Common leg ligament injury less likely on natural grass than artificial turf"
"Each year, more and more athletes pour out of locker rooms and onto fields made of artificial turf.
While turf is significantly more reliable and durable than natural grass, a recent study shows that athletes put less strain on their anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) while running on the “real” stuff.
The ACL, located inside both knee joints, is one of the most vulnerable spots on the body and, if injured or strained, can make simply walking a painful experience. A torn ACL may hinder an athlete from ever playing sports again even if it's repaired. It depends on age and severity of the injury.
Dr. Mark Drakos, lead author of the study and former orthopedic fellow of Sports Medicine at the Hospital for Special Surgery in New York City, used legs of cadavers to test the different surfaces. The three surfaces tested were grass, Astroturf and modern playing turf. He tested all surfaces using both a turf shoe and a cleat.
To do so, Drakos and his team designed a “box-like structure” that simulated the weight and angle of a person in standing position. They then placed the knee at various angles, quickly turned the structure underneath the foot, and measured how much stress was placed on the ACL with each “cut.” Drakos found the combination of a cleat and natural grass to be the least stressful, followed by the combination of turf and a turf shoe.
Drakos said that previous research of ACL injuries and shoe-surface interface has been largely inconclusive due to so many confounding variables. By using cadavers donated to science, Drakos said he believes that he has created a relatively controlled and effective study, which appeared in the January 2010 issue of the Journal of Biomechanical Engineering.
“I think the study certainly adds to the small body of scientific evidence or knowledge related to shoe-surface interfaces,” said Dr. Andew McNitt, director of Pennsylvania State's Sports Surface Research Center, “What this study did well is bridge material tests with epidemiological tests.”
While McNitt recognized the study’s significance, he also noted the fact that further research needs to be done to find a definitive answer.
“I don’t think that the jury’s in, and I think the authors of the study would agree,” McNitt said, “I think it’s a sound study and it’s good science, but I’m waiting and looking for that cornerstone study that will be referenced for the next 30 years.”"
Interesting that the jury is still out, considering his association with an artificial turf company. So, is McNitt going to come here and advise we ignore Drakos "sound study and good science" and install turf while we wait for that cornerstone study?
How about this approach— rather than playing Russian Roulette with our kids' knees... we stick with natural grass. Its worked well for years, its better for the environment and its definitly less expensive which will provide better opportunities to maintain other existing fields or add others if we choose.
http://www.thealmanac.net/article/20140515/NEWS11/140519976#.U3i5CCd5mc0
"The Mt. Lebanon commission plans to bring independent experts to speak on potential health issues related to artificial turf. Commissioners discussed bringing Dr. Andrew McNitt, a field surfaces researcher from Penn State University, and a toxicologist, to discuss artificial turf in detail with concerned residents.
The extra diligence won’t come free, however."
What the hell Almanac-- independent experts?!!! How about a little extra diligence? Not one mention that Penn State's McNitt gets funding from artificial turf manufacturer, FieldTurf!
Keep writing stories like this and I'm going to ask you to keep your trash off my lawn.
Also from the article:
"In response, commissioner Dave Brumfield seemed to waver. He said he would like to hear from commissioner John Bendel, who was absent from the meeting, before offering a final opinion.
“I don’t have a problem with those meetings being public,” Brumfield said, “but they are not required to be public. I would want to hear what John has to say.”"
Is Brumfield throwing Bendel under the bus???? Is he saying, 'it's not me keeping the public out of the loop, John's giving orders"
9:57 AM, thanks for directing us to this latest Almanac article. I had missed it.
I would like to thank The Almanac reporter for doing a great job covering this subject. He was the only one who met with residents and did a nice job with last week's article, getting it "above the fold" on the front page. He spent two hours interviewing residents.
I would like to thank the anonymous poster for catching this little gem for the crown jewel. I had not picked up on the McNitt/FieldTurf partnership.
Brumfield isn't throwing Bendel under the bus, 9:57 AM. That was just a stall tactic. He was just going to whine to his SAB buddies about the latest thing Kelly did to him. Remember what Dave Franklin and Tim White said about Kelly in my "mother of RTKs?"
Elaine
Another quote from The Almanac article:
"Municipal manager Steve Feller said this did not necessarily mean the project would be $11,000 more expensive. Certain other soft cost items are already expected to come in lower than originally estimated."
I am learning that I should be on my toes when Steve Feller and the Commissioners use the words "not necessarily." Kristen uses that phrase quite a bit when she is lying. "The ESB is not necessarily against artificial turf." Also, the project will be more expensive. Did you read the memo from Gateway which I posted in an earlier thread?
Here is the letter from John Bendel explaining more about the Turf Project Task Force. It wasn't adding up Notice how it is made up of seven members. FOUR of them are nonvoting members of the SAB. What the hell?? Three of them are being paid with OUR tax dollars! How did FOUR nonvoting members get so much control of a board?
Elaine
The big problem with the Almanac article is the phrase "imdependent expert". One cannot go around accepting money from a company and be called "independent" if they go out making presentation in hat company's favor.
Somehow I don't think Deiseroth, Bendel and Brumfield are bringing this expert in to tell us the negative elements of using artificial turf.
Don't forget to add Dave Franklin to the mix, 11:37 AM. He was raving about this "independent expert from Penn State" at a recent meeting.
And no, they wouldn't bring in any experts who are biased. Ha!
Elaine
Charlotte,
It is interesting that Officer O'Brien initiated the report. Officer Patrick O'Brien, along with another Mt. Lebanon police officer had come to my home a few months ago and looked at my computer when I received an offensive "anonymous" comment about this issue. I was told to forward the comment to Officer O'Brien as part of the report.
Chief McDonough, are you convinced yet that the pro-turf people are becoming an unruly bunch?
Elaine
Hey no-turf fans, here's something you haven't seemingly noticed in The Almanac article and commented about:
"Bendel cited plans for a sump like stone and piping system capable of holding approximately 140,000 gallons of water and controlling the peak rate of flow from a 25-year storm event". Now take a look at what has been termed "the Bendel turf presentation" of last Nov. and to the Commission in February this year and the itemized expected costs. Don't see this expensive storm water management item in the $999,000 total cost do you ? Why not Bendel ? Do the turf nuts plan to deceive us further and assign this cost to Brafferton or the Public Safety Center ?
And while on the turf nuts claim of talking about this turf project for many years, yes, every year since 2010 the Rec. Dept. has proposed a turf AND LIGHTING project at Wildcat/Middle fields for between $1,000,000 and $1,050,000. But such a project has either not been recommended by the Manager through 2014 and/or not approved by the Commission in Amended Budgets until 2014; and,an Amended Budget has not been passed or even proposed yet for 2014 because of the turf project cost uncertainty. But even another question relates to : what happened to the lighting of Wildcat ? This was supposed to be an integral part the project they have been talking about for years, but is now AWOL ? Or will this, like the 93 space parking lots designed for Wildcat (originally cost estimated by Gateway in 2013 at $249,000 and now revised to $416,000) and the storm water system at a cost to be determined in bids not be officially considered in and a necessary component of the turf project ?
These people need to be called out and exposed as frauds.
1:36 PM, NEVER have I seen so much corruption on the municipal side of our local government. School District, yes. That is evident with the tax increase tomorrow of .54 mills. Bill Matthews believes next year’s increase could easily be limited to 0.30 mills, if not lower; and most importantly, without impacting a single educational program.
We are being overtaxed on both sides of our local government. Leftover funds on the municipal side are being used to pay for this unnecessary turf project. I have never seen it this bad in all the years I have been a taxpayer in Mt. Lebanon. It is criminal. The threats, the lies, the stealing, the "warning" not to mess with Chip, the unexpected home visits, the bullying...The school board, Dave Franklin, Chip Dalesandro, Tim White, David Donnellan, Dave Brumfield, Kristen Linfante, John Bendel, Dan Deiseroth, Steve Feller, Dave Reese, John Grogan, the coach who threatened a mom, the creep who sent me the offensive comment, the sign stealers, did I miss anyone?); what the hell has Mt. Lebanon become?
Elaine
What has Mt. Lebanon become you ask.
Probably a place that no thinking person would move into especially if one has kids.
K-12 declining enrollments suggest there are people out there that are thinking.
If you think about it, when the school district's financial officer abandons the ship- you know its time to put on the lifejacket and save yourself.
Plus the commissioners learned well from the school board that you can do things like renovate a HS and build a Great Hall of a cafeteria with no chairs or tables for anyone to sit down and eat.
Or redo an auditorium without a sound system of curtains.
Those things all get bought off bid as Capital Improvements. Sure the kids 'could have' sat on the floor to eat for a couple of years!
Now we'll have a "crown jewel" sports field with insufficent parking. So next year we need more parking because it is absolutely silly to have a beautiful field that has no parking. Then why let all those cool evenings when the turf is still toasty warm... Lights everybody, we need lights!
EG:
It is indeed a sad state of affairs in this little village (which is too small for a republic and too large for an insane asylum) when our political class feels it must resort to personal intimidation to get what they want. However, when municipal and school district power is centralized in the hands of a few statists, and the polity yawns, we should expect to be treated poorly.
Things can change, but as I have written on this Blog in the past it will take resolve, money, an independent political body, money, people with communications skills, money, and last but not least, money.
Richard, money, money and not least money???
Isn't that akin to throwing gasoline on a fire?
More signs have been stolen. I just added a photo sent to me of a sign that had been found close to and across the street from Kristen Linfante's home on Roycroft.
Elaine
1:36 PM water weighs about 8.33 lbs/gal. What would hold or contain 140,000 gallons of water weighing about 1,166,000 lbs. or 583 tons ? And, what might that cost, which is not identified or included in Bendel's turf budget, under Wildcat & Middle fields or even surrounding area ?
To be fair to Bendel, the budget presented and promoted by Bendel was prepared by Deiseroth and Donnellan. Maybe Bendel didn't know or really understand what he was talking about ?
For those of you who feel as does May 18, 2014 at 4:45 PM, let me ask you a series of questions:
1. Did those anti-turf signs that were stolen fall, freely, out of the sky?
2. Does your church ask you for money and, if so, why?
3. Do you work for free?
4. Did it take money for you to connect to the Internet in order to read and post to this Blog?
5. Do you believe that money is the root of all evil?
If you answered "yes" to the last question I suggest that you do not understand either money or the actual biblical quote from which the popular corruption comes.
Money is necessary in almost any process you can name, including the political. Ayn Rand had the correct idea concerning money:
"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver."
Richard, to answer your your questions, some of the work on #1 was free. On number #3 quite often, probably too often.
On #2 yes churches ask for money quite often, but they also ask for volunteers.
On number #4, you know as well as I do that therre is no free lunch,
On #5 there are no absolutes, money can do great and wonderful things, pursuit of it can be destructive as well.
That wasn't the point to the original question. Certainly, to win seats on the commission or the school board it will take money, of that there is no doubt. But that might also be scaring off people from running for office or getting involved.
Stealing yard signs? Really? So much for open and honest debate. That alone tells me all I need to know about the group pushing the turf idea.
Thanks very much to Charlotte Stephenson for providing me some signs. I just put two in my yard.
Here's a message to the little clowns spending their time trespassing and committing theft--I would strongly advise against touching my signs. It's simply not worth the price you'll pay. Private property rights trump your stupidity.
That said, if you would like to discuss the signs or my position on the matter, feel free to call me. I'd be happy to have a conversation. You want the number? Look it up or send Elaine a private email. She'll give it to you.
Give up the fight.. worthless battle..sports rule in any town in WPA, interesting that the only sport in lebo that has produced professional players is ice hockey!
Contrary to 10:07, never give up the fight for what is right. This whole thing is a black eye on how things should be done and the criminal activity is just another example of the bullying and sneaky antics of the Commission and Sports Authority Board.
Keep fighting the good fight!
First of all, I don't give up. Second, what about our Olympic Gold Medal Winner Kurt Angle?
Elaine
I think the majority of Mt Lebanon still doesn't know about this turf issue and why there's a controversy.
Even fewer people know about the Robb Hollow proposal about adding new grass fields.
Is there a fact sheet available that compares these two plans with pros/cons?
11:28, I suspect you're right.
I think many of the commenters here lose sight of the fact that a majority of the people aren't following the subject like they are. Hell, there are probably a ton of people that don't know about the McNeilly property, couldn't find it if they were standing next to it and have no idea their tax dollars are still paying on it.
Hey commissioners!
Here is a suggestion— knock off the McNitt Turf Con... er, ah Forum.
Everyone knows what the message is going to be— that artificial turf is the greatest innovation in sports since the Aztecs quit using POW's heads for balls and that its more more hazardous to the environment than those Lil' Hug juice bottles the kids celebrate their no-score victory over their opponents with.
So save the $11,000 and put it to some good use... like fixing potholes or the roof leaks in the new municipal building.
Everyone that is paying attention already know that the odds of Bendel, Brumfield and Deiseroth bringing in an unbiased, "independent" expert to discuss turf are about $1,000,000 to 1.
What do you think commissioners... your constituents are stupid?
"What do you think commissioners... your constituents are stupid?"
Why yes, they do!
Correction:
"that artificial turf is the greatest innovation in sports since the Aztecs quit using POW's heads for balls and that its [no] more hazardous to the environment than those Lil' Hug juice bottles the kids celebrate their no-score victory over their opponents with."
I agree most people do not know this is going on. Hopefully the yard signs that are not stolen help. I noticed that a lot of the ones I saw yesterday during my run belong to newcomers.: ) Obviously from reading this blog. People don't seem to care until it hits them personally and most people just don't realize how this will. I love the person on Cedar who wrote their own huge sign stating "It's your two million!"
Seems some Senate democrats are working against the effort to market to Lebo kids using field signs!
http://adage.com/article/news/kids-food-marketing-latest-ad-tax-deduction-target/293261/
A couple of U.S. senators are making a new attack on the the long-targeted ad tax deduction, and this one goes squarely after the food and beverage industries.
Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, and Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., have introduced a bill called the "Stop Subsidizing Childhood Obesity Act," that would prohibit deductions of expenses from the advertising of foods and beverages of "poor nutritional quality" that are marketed to kids. The proceeds would go to a government program that provides fresh fruit and vegetable snacks to low-income school children."
Some how I don't think Trax or Simmons Farms will be paying $500 a sign to advertise their apples at MWC Fields.
The reason I am against the turf is I do not believe it will be used safely. For children to use turf they must have turf shoes to ensure injury rates do not skyrocket. (See below note, standard shoes tear up turf and increase injury due to too much traction.) This means every child on a team both home and visiting will need two pairs of shoes. One for grass, one for turf. To ensure safety there should be shoe checks before every event. This is not a big deal for high school teams, but I have no idea how they plan to enforce it for youth teams. (I have seen no mention of how the various sport clubs will enforce proper footwear.) Do they think every parent of every child that plays on that field is can afford another $40-80 per year per child for a pair of turf shoes. (Kids outgrow their shoes pretty much every year.) So beyond the cost of the field itself the cost to the participants is going to be substantial. Assuming 2,000 kids (home and away) play on the fields and that they each need a new pair of shoes each year due to growth, that is roughly an extra $100,000 of costs for the families of the participants. [I have no idea how many different kids will use the proposed fields each year.) So the total lifetime all-in cost to safely use this field type, assuming an 8-10 year life beaks over $3,000,000. If proper footwear rules are not enforced and injury rates climb the cost is clearly even higher.
In the various posts I have not seen this basic fundamental issue mentioned. (Requirement for all kids to have two pairs of shoes and that with proper footwear to keep injury rates down performance of athletes actually decreases on turf.)
“We know that the greater the traction, the higher the rate of injury. Wearing cleats made specifically for artificial turf, or better yet turf shoes, may help to decrease traction and therefore reduce lower extremity injuries. Unfortunately, there may be a decrease in performance as shoes with less traction may cause players to slip.” Justin Shaginaw, MPT, ATC, Aria 3B Orthopaedic Institute, Athletic Trainer - US Soccer Federation
11:28 I looked up Commissioner Fraasch's blog and found this http://www.kellyfraasch.com/2012/08/15/updates-on-recreation-proposal/
In 2012 she was looking at $1 1/2 million to have a full size field on top and jr field on bottom.
Maybe the price comes in higher but I think Mount Lebanon would be far more comfortable with two additional grass fields for two million than the turf on Wildcat.
Ask Commissioner Fraasch to pull numbers up on the Robb Hollow plan and have Elaine post them,11:28!
Does everyone else wonder why Commissioner Fraasch has a blog and has an account with nextdoor? I believe she is the only one. She just posted something about Memorial Day and it made me wonder if she is the only Commissioner that actual works.
10:57 continued
I read through the rest of the proposal and that amount $1 1/2 includes parking, dog park area, pavillion, and trails. Her plan wasn't just about fields.
Seems like a no brainer.
10:56, now you know why it was in Dick's best interest to donate $5,000 towards artificial turf.
Besides having families buy two types of shoes every year or so, while they're in the store they'll be buying shin guards, shorts, soccer socks, etc., etc.
As for Fraasch's plan, I agree and suggest her fields din't have to be done in one fell swoop.
We could build say the jr. Practice field this year for less than the public $750,000 being used for AT. That takes a huge amount of play overuse off MWC. Then build the other field at a later date.
Think of it as PAY AS YOU PLAY (PAYP) or PAY AS YOU CAN AFFORD IT! (PAYCAI)
Another bonus to Kelly's plan is that it allows us to unload the McNeilly property.
Since development of townhouses and apartments on MCNeilly seems to be hot right now, the market may be hot.
Another plus, those new residents would mean more customers for our business district restaurants, foodstores, drugstores, Galleria Theater etc., etc.
Everybody wins with Kelly's plan as opposed to just Bendel, Brumfield, Franklin and their sports cabal friends.
A good question would be - who cost estimated Kelly's Robb Hollow Plan... Gateway?
10:56 am. I agree with you completely that there is significant evidence suggesting that the turf will not be used safely nor will it be installed with standards that ensure safety.
I have never seen the children playing at the stadium in Lebo be asked to wear turf shoes or elsewhere be asked to wear turf shoes, or even provided information on their existence. Never.
I've never been told the kids should wash their hands after playing on turf. Never.
I've never seen coaches take significant measures to prevent heat exhaustion. My son suffered from heat exhaustion/illness due to overzealous coaches failing to end practice on time, on a grass field, without adequate cooling time for young children playing a field sport with pads on/helmets.
The child is still hesitant about going to practices on hot days due to this experience (symptoms: increased thirst, weakness, nausea and vomiting, irritability, headache and
increased sweating).
Even if parents watch their children practicing from the sidelines, some sports that require helmets, mouth guards, etc., make it very difficult to assess their child's status. Preventive heat illness measures must be undertaken to ensure these kids are safe.
So if my kid has already had heat illness on grass, in the spring, how on Earth am I to believe that he will be OK for children to play on turf when the SAB is claiming "it doesn't get that hot in Pittsburgh?"
Former Jets nose tackle Kris Jenkins believes FieldTurf might have caused his two knee injuries.
http://www.metro.us/newyork/lifestyle/2011/03/29/jenkins-unlikely-to-rejoin-jets/
Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger argues that it is “…a great field, but FieldTurf is just killing guys because they can’t get their feet out of the ground. It’s just another reason we should get rid of FieldTurf.”
http://www.drdavidgeier.com/field-turf-football-players-risk-acl-tears/
FieldTurf didn't do any favors for David DeCastro:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/26/roethlisberger-blames-fieldturf-for-decastros-injury/
11:27 far better than Silverman's economic plan.
Not familiar with Silverman's economic plan, except to hit up Dicks for money?
I played rugby in college. A few times as a guest we had to play on artificial turf and so had to wear regular sport shoes for safety and to not damage the field. (You want your foot to break contact with the ground, not your knee buckling, when getting tackled. Regular cleats on turf have way too much grip.) Was not worth buying turf shoes ($100+ investment) for just a game or two a year. It was awful to try to play rugby in regular tennis shoes. Your toes are not protected and you would get them stepped on by the other team that had turf shoes. Very painful/broken toes. I would imagine the same issue would come up with youth La Crosse. All players would have to have turf shoes to adequately protect their toes. There would need to be procedures to block any player from coming on field with regular shoes.
In multiple conversations I have had (I have had kids on travel teams until last year) with other parents the costs of two pairs of shoes and possibilities of increased injuries, not worries about environmental issues, has been the chief concern. No one wants their 10 or 11 year old hurting their knee, ankle, or foot permanently due to playing on turf. From what I (we) understand turf is OK for high school age as their joints are more developed but discouraged for middle school and younger due to the higher traction of turf. A number of parents I know are also concerned that other teams will refuse to play in Mt Lebo due to the cost of having to buy turf shoes or being at a disadvantage in the game if they do not shell out the money for the shoes. Several have also noted for baseball the ball comes off the bat much “hotter” on turf and so the risk of young pitchers/infielders getting hurt is higher. (Dirt makes a great shock absorber.) Part of the game of baseball is the unpredictability of fielding on grass during wet to dry conditions on a surface that is not perfectly flat. A turf field has much more predictable ball travel. Kind of takes something away from the game. Also kids learning on turf will not learn the defensive skills they need for playing on grass which is the predominant baseball field surface.
My daughter played on the Mt Lebo high school soccer team. They were told to simply wear regular grass cleats on the high school turf. From what I can tell from reading articles on the internet this 1) damages the field over time, and 2) leads to higher injury rates. Perhaps that is why the field is showing the wear it is. The studies I have seen that say turf is as safe as grass all ensured players had appropriate turf footgear. Who is going to ensure that appropriate footgear will be used on the new field for both safety and to ensure the warranty stays valid?
2:11 PM, there is no valid warranty for the high school turf. When Commencement is held with all the gals wearing high heels and they set up all those folding chairs, it voided the warranty. Plus, the company went out of business.
Elaine
These are all good questions for McNitt, aren't they?
Also, I have a question about concussions on these turf fields. I have not found one solid study of Gmax ratings required to prevent concussions on synthetic turf in a pediatric population. Ask the concussions docs if kids are different from collegiate and adult athletes. Then with that hypothetical Gmax info, who is going to ensure it is maintained?
2:26, yes they are all good questions and ones you'd think the brilliant commissioners would've asked before committing to artificial turf.
Yeah, I know Turfing and MWC has been discussed and thought out for years and years.
If that is so... then surely Linfante, Bendel, Brumfield and Silverman have the documented answers right at their fingers. If not them at the very least Feller and Deiseroth should have the answers.
We don't need no stinkin' $11,000 dog and pony show from McNitt to tell us what we should already know!
1:59 PM, here is Silverman's economic plan, selling Gatorade.
Elaine
Check out this lawsuit against FieldTurf and damages for illegal business practices for knowingly selling their turf when they knew it contained lead. https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/attachments/press_releases/n1953_fieldturf_cj_signed.pdf
11:27, please read the NPS application.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B9r_1biKte_bU1Jld1pkcVFGR2c
Page 17, Future Development
"...it would be difficult to imagine that this land would remain vacant should Mt. Lebanon not move forward with the purchase of the property. Developers would surely view the 23.5+/- acre parcel of land as an attractive commodity for uses which would not incorporate the natural areas that the Park Plan would create if implemented."
See this document:
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/cs/groups/public/documents/document/d_001231.pdf
The GRANTEE shall insure that, throughout its useful life, the site is (1) maintained properly and in accordance with applicable state and local requirements, (2) kept in reasonable repair so as to prevent undue deterioration and dangerous conditions and to encourage public use, and (3) kept open and accessible to the public at reasonable hours and times of the year consistent with the nature and intended use of the site.
ARTICLE XXI
OWNERSHIP AND CONTROL; NON-CONVERSION OF USE
Ownership and control: Ownership, control, or interest in the site shall not be transferred from or by the GRANTEE without prior written approval of the DEPARTMENT. If the DEPARTMENT attaches conditions to its approval, they shall be complied with by the GRANTEE.
Non-conversion: The site shall not be converted to any use or purposes other than for project activities as defined in Article I (grant amount; project activities) without prior written approval of the DEPARTMENT. If the project activities under this GRANT AGREEMENT include the development of a plan for the site, the site shall not be converted to any uses or purposes that are inconsistent with the authorizing legislation under which the DEPARTMENT awarded this grant.
Oh yeah, forgot about that.
Yeah, some heavy planning going on there! Sell a few creamsicles, a couple of Gatorades and we'll be able to quit working for a living.
Brilliant.
From eveeything I heard from what I would consider reliable and in-the-know sources... Kelly's plan could get us a release from the department that awarded the grant.
Word on the street is that lacrosse teams from other areas will not let their kids play on artificial turf and that the Lebo teams will have to play their home games away.
Also, as far as the high school teams wearing regular cleats, the players were told that it gives them better traction, which causes MORE injuries as well as tearing up the field.
Elaine
3:52, say what? "Developers would surely view the 23.5+/- acre parcel of land as an attractive commodity for uses which would not incorporate the natural areas that the Park Plan would create if implemented."
Park Plan? Natural areas? Since when is an artificially turfed field considered a "natural area?"
The Brumfield/Franklin's pushed to turf and pave and light a portion of it as well. That's OK, but Kelly's swap plan wouldn't be?
I have a new supply of anti-turf signs. Just email me at EGillen476@aol.com, if you want a yard sign. Please do not put your signs on the strip of grass between the sidewalk and the street. The municipality will remove the signs since they do not permit signs in that space.
Thanks for your support!
Elaine
So a pro quarterback flat out states turf is bad news yet a bunch of middle-age and out of shape suburban dads somehow know better. Excellent. Hell, I'm sold. That's all the debate I needed.
Out of shape is a downright compliment to those mouth-breathing fools.
So wait a slippery second, what is the commission plan for McNeilly? It sounds like they cannot develop the property commercially, right? Have they stated their plans?
What I have learned from anti-turf sign supporters is that most people are more upset with the financials of this project. What kind of a forum can Gateway host on that one?
Elaine
On Twitter the VP of MLSA stated that the Almanac article which describes resident concerns about the turf installation reflects a "vocal minority" and "BS".
In the meantime, in the Northwestern portion of our country, there is mounting concern about the number of youth soccer goalies that have had rare forms of cancer. Many are concern the cancer could be caused by crumb rubber.
Here's a sample of that sentiment, Mr. VP:
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Soccer-coach-Could-field-turf-be-causing-cancer-259895701.html?tab=video&c=y
Need signs alerting residents that a MILLION $$$ of THEIR money is being spent for Dave's kid to play lacrosse.
Tuesday, May 20, 2014, 4:36pm EDT
"Dick's Sporting Goods shares tumble after earnings report" — Paul J. Gough, Pittsburgh Business Times
Now it would be fun to imagine that the catalyst for the headline was a boycott of Dicks stores by angry Mt. Lebanon residents that oppose turf.
Of course, it wasn't, but Dicks can be assured they won't be seeing any sales of shoes, golf balls and equipment to this family in a long, long time.
That goes ditto for any restaurants or businesses that donate to or buy a field sign supporting turf.
If they make enough money to give it away for plastic grass, they don't need any of my money.
Maybe Lebocitizens should start a boycott list.
I saw that too, 12:29 PM.
I wouldn't mind starting a boycott list, but Bendel isn't comfortable identifying donors. We still haven't received that financial report, have we?
I understand that residents are mailing back their Dick's ScoreCards to the home office.
Elaine
Supposedly, the artificial turf doesn't go in unless the private dollars are in the bank.
But we are hiring another municipal employee that says he's being hired to work on "field turf."
Interesting, very interesting!
Dick's just reported terrible quarterly financial results.
The Almanac writes this in the McNitt article: "Municipal manager Steve Feller said this did not necessarily mean the project would be $11,000 more expensive. Certain other soft cost items are already expected to come in lower than originally estimated."
Could this be deja vu?
In a long, long time ago (at least by dog years) Lebocitizens posted this:
"Next, let me talk a little bit about leadership. During Mr. Kubit's year as President of the Board, he voted consistenly in favor of a high school project budget in excess of $113 million. In fact, one can easily argue that Mr. Kubit used his position as school board president to cheerlead the project even while the community at large consistently voiced very strong and loud opposition. He even sent out a taxpayer funded FAQ to the community that argued in favor of the project. Mr Kubit cheerfully announced in the FAQ that he expected bids for the project to come in 17-25% below the budget HE VOTED IN FAVOR OF. He wrote the following:
"The maximum cost would be $113,274,265. However, this does not take into account that bids on recent construction projects came in 17 to 25% below original estimates. Additionally we are working with our architects and construction manager to find waysto further reduce the cost through value engineer."
Here we go again folks!!!
The estimated cost of the pool was $3,300,000.....the low bid was #3,900,000 and awarded, with the $600,000 extra taken from an approved $500,000 golf course improvement project, and the balance from a Robb Hollow Park project.
4:08 P M,
At the time Mr. Kubit told us recent construction projects came in 17% to 25% below original estimates, P. J. Dick was telling the community that discount to original estimate was already included in the construction estimates.
Yes 11:58 you are correct.
What were we told the municipal reconstruction would be and what did the bids come in at!
What was Brafferton suppose to be fixed for? What was the final number?
It should be interesting to see the turf bids and the number of off bid items that appear at a later date so Bendel, Brumfield, Linfante and Silverman can save face.
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