Not so fast about changing to turf not subtracting from any historic value, Folks. Gateway's letter to the PHMC:
The note to the Historical and Museum Commission said that while Mt. Lebanon's park overall contributed to the community's historic nature, the rec center, pool and concessions buildings surrounding the fields were all more modern and therefore the change to turf wouldn't subtract from any historic value.On Page 10 of National Register of Historic Places, Main Park is considered a contributing site to the Mt. Lebanon Historic District.
The Mt. Lebanon Historic District also contains three substantial greenspaces within its boundary. The northernmost is the 76-acre Mt. Lebanon Cemetery, which was established in 1874 and includes a late nineteenth century caretaker’s house as part of its property (Photograph 34)... Main Park, a 51-acre park located off Cedar Boulevard, was already established during the period of significance though the original bath house and swimming pool that were formerly located at the center of the park are no longer extant. The park itself, which features ball fields, playgrounds, and basketball and tennis courts, is considered a contributing site, but the recreation center, tennis center, and current pool house that have been built within the park after the period of significance are considered non-contributing buildings.I contacted The Historical Society of Mount Lebanon, who shared some wonderful articles about the history of Wildcat Field. If you are a native Pittsburgher, you will recognize the name, Bob Prince a.k.a. The Gunner, announcer of the Pittsburgh Pirates. He organized The Wildcats team.
See if you recognize any names in the December 1946 issue of Huddle Magazine. Another fun article about The Mt. Lebanon Wildcats is here. Read about the coaching staff. I love this photo:
Courtesy: The Historical Society of Mount Lebanon Archives |
Is this another typo, Gateway? Could it be that the National Register of Historic Places is correct after all? The ball fields are a contributing site.
Update September 18, 2014 9:17 AM John Bendel, commission liaison to the Mt. Lebanon Historic Preservation Board, as well as other commissioners and members of the Sports Advisory Board are trying to sell the naming rights for Wildcat Field. August 25, 2014 Discussion Session Agenda Anything for a buck in Mt. Lebanon. Oops, that word makes Kristen nervous. Sorry. A dollar.
Update September 18, 2014 9:17 AM John Bendel, commission liaison to the Mt. Lebanon Historic Preservation Board, as well as other commissioners and members of the Sports Advisory Board are trying to sell the naming rights for Wildcat Field. August 25, 2014 Discussion Session Agenda Anything for a buck in Mt. Lebanon. Oops, that word makes Kristen nervous. Sorry. A dollar.
72 comments:
Thank you Elaine for yet another inconvenient truth.
Do you know if this is true: Burger King has discontinued using the "have it your way" slogan and Gateway management is seeking the rights to use the jingle?
Thanks, 4:45 AM. None of this matters if the right people don't know about it.
Elaine
Trickery, chicanery and deceit - the rallying cry of the elected and appointed officials behind the turf project. They will go to any means to falsely justify their absurd project.
John Bendel, commission liaison to the Mt. Lebanon Historic Preservation Board, as well as other commissioners and members of the Sports Advisory Board are trying to sell the naming rights for Wildcat Field. August 25, 2014 Discussion Session Agenda Anything for a buck in Mt. Lebanon. Oops, that word makes Kristen nervous. Sorry. A dollar.
Elaine
The Tribune Review article was made possible through your open records request, Elaine.
I found the tentative list of future items for discussion in the agenda interesting.
They're not going to give up on PAYT and apparently tobacco in the parks is a much bigger problem than alcohol in the dugouts and bleachers at field sporting events!
Can I rename my street if Middle/Wildcat can be renamed? How does one get the right's to naming? What can be renamed? When did the commission get the right to rename portions of Mt Lebanon?
Q: will the proceeds from field naming rights go directly into the municipality's coffers or will they first go into the Community Endowment where a handling fee will be imposed?
Which will then give the Endowment money to hand over to the turf project as 'MORE PRIVATE CONTRIBUTIONS'?
Silverman wanted naming money to be credited to the private donations for the artificial turf, and got a little distressed when that absurd idea was challenged. Dear oh dear!
12:26--- See Article X, Section 1001 and 1002 of the Municipal Home Rule Charter.
It states roughly that any agreements of valuable considerations with the municipality must be let out for competive bids.
I would think naming rights, which are essentially the commissioners "selling" or "leasing" public property and would therefore need a long competive and open bidding process to be allowed.
One of the Commissioners simply couldn't collar a rich friend and give them the naming rights to "our" field for a fee which the commissioner could dump into the Community Endowment for distribution at their discretion.
I have heard several times that Middle/Wildcat are not fertilized. Does any one know this to be the case?
Since ML is being considered for Historical Designation, does changing the name of the park affect or impact the application for the Designation? I would think that the Historical Society would want to keep the name as it is now and NOT change it!
Not the name of the park! The name of the field.
Elaine
Sorry, I meant the name of the field. 5:05
3:45. It's my understanding that the field is not fertilized. The lie about reducing pollution is also a Field Turf selling point. Apparently, the municipal engineer greatly overestimates his intelligence while underestimating everyone else's.
#canttrustdeiseroth
5:05. I've never seen a historic site, or even part of one, renamed by the highest bidder. The site's historical integrity would be significantly diminished by a renaming.
Oh, that field is being fertilized with all the sh-t Dave and David-er are shoveling in the direction of the public.
So we've entered into i suppose, one more quiet phase operation here in Bubble World. First we have the stealthy fund raiser over at the school district and now the quick and witty Sports Advisory Board is off the radar.
I thought all these initiatives were pressing matters that just had to acted upon... NOW!
No talk, no time to discern exactly where the goal line is or how to get there.
It's the same brain freeze that got us Twin Hills and McNeilly Fields and now an artificiayl turfed that looks amazingly like the same natural grass field that has always been there.
Quickly, we'll address the failing by not sweeping the proponents of this farce out but instead concentrating on selling the naming rights to someone with deep pockets that has no more interest in our kids than trying to sell them something.
7:36 AM, the naming rights are being considered are not corporate related. Instead, it is from a family, in memory of their son who was a former Mt. Lebanon baseball player.
Elaine
Forgot to add...
While we focus our attention and hold undesignated tax revenue for this little patch of earth, homes will still flood, roads will still need paved an infrastructure will still need maintenance.
As cold as it may sound, if the EPA denies the pemit for artificial turf and the field remains natural grass will the naming rights offer still be on the table and the proceeds used to keep all of the fields in good condition?
8:14, That is a really tacky comment. Didn't yo daddy teach you no manners?
Wouldn't contributing to a natural grass field or all the fields that a ballplayer grew up on be a fitting memorial 10:32?
Guess I am tacky?
No more tacky than designing a monument to be erected along with the artificial turf with the names of the Commissioners, Staffers, Gateway as if the site exist because of them alone.
No recognition of the hard-earned tax dollars from the average joe or jane that for decades have supported and funded youth athletics in Mt. Lebanon, 10:32.
Another tacky question.
If we start SELLING naming rights to individual families what do we do we do when we as a community want to honor a distinguished native son or daughter?
Say like Dixon Field, Morgan Drive or Bird Park?
Does selling naming rights to the highest bidder diminish those tributes?
Seems like a rather reasonable policy.
http://www.neola.com/bridgman-mi/search/policies/po7250.htm
Pay particular attention to item E.
1:30, I don't think naming rights diminishes the honor paid to others in any fashion. Naming rights honor another deserving person or group.
Think of it this way, did dedicating the Veteran's Memorial diminish the honor paid to any of the individuals you mentioned. I don't think it did in any way. 60c2
4:08, I read the naming-rights link you posted and item E requires the naming-rights donor to pay the maintenance costs of the facility named as well as the substantial capital contribution for the naming rights.
Most donors are willing to contribute the capital costs but put clauses in their naming rights agreement stating they will not pay future maintenance costs so that clause discourages the large gifts that make important projects possible.
Also, the 10-year giveback of plaques to the family is a disincentive to giving. When the library was expanded many donors contributed a room and a plaque was mounted on the wall recognizing their generosity. How would you feel if someone gave you back your Mom and Dad's wall plaque three years after they died?
Key difference 6:03.
i believe the Veterans' Memorial was made possible by a collective effort by the community to honor ALL MTL Veteran and duh, none was named Veteran.
What is your point 7:09?
7:04 no one bought the naming rights to the Mt. Lebanon Library and that is the point 9:04.
Are Memorials based on the size of ones pocketbook?
What is the price point?
Is Brumfield willing to sell "Mt Lebanon" to the highest bidder? Maybe "Mt Lacrosse"? Wonder what the Littlest Loser has to say about this?
Price point, 7:09? No one insulted Mr. Carnegie when he donated libraries to several communities. Most of us are still enjoying free books to read because of Andrew's generous nature. I'm not offended by his name on the library. Get real. If you can't afford it and he can, why do you care that he named the libraries?
I really don't understand your hostility here.
6:35 Mr. Carnegie built libraries where none existed and I have no problem with that sort of contribution to the community.
If Joe Citizen wants to build a stadium or a science lab or a cafeteria and name it after themself, their spouse, parent, child or their favorite flower- more power to them.
The essential difference here is that we are taking an existing community asset, paid for by thousand of taxpayers over the years and allowing someone to brand it because they have deep pockets.
What about the thousands of Mt. Lebanon kids that played baseball, football, hockey, tennis, trombone, violin, or sculpted, painted.
Is everything in the community now for sale?
I sympathize for the family for there loss and understand as I watched my grandfather cry at funeral for one of his sons. His words "a parent should never have to bury a child" have stuck with me my whole life. I truly feel for the parents in this case, but what about the other families that have lost someone special.
Will we have bidding wars to name things as Memorials?
Does the family that spends their entire life savings fight to keep a child alive not get the opportunity to memorilize them with a MTL facility simply because they're out of cash?
By the way, I'm opposed to Ficks, Coca-Cola or some other corporation buying the naming rights as well for a pittance.
If they came in and say, picked up over 50% of an indoor facility at McNeilly which wouldn't get built otherwise, yeah sure- call it XZY or Joe Smith Sports Arena or whatever they want.
That is my position, it is hard I realize, but it is my opinion. Hate me if you wish.
Lost in this conversation 6:35 is the debate as to whether the community WANTS to artificially turf Wildcat/Middle Field!
6:35 why are you trying to brand me as hostile?
I'd suggest I'm trying to be pragmatic as evidenced by my original question as to whether the naming rights offer is incumbent on artificial turf.
You see we have a situation where many people think artificial turf will harm countless kids down the road.
Are we in a situation where the Memorial Naming Offer is being used as a justification for proceeding with the turfing?
If the naming offer stands turf or natural grass we can take that question off the table, simple as that.
I understand the concern with the turf, but that decision has been made assuming the permit is issued.
So are you attacking a generous donor to get rid of the turf. Mixing issues is confusing and does not resolve your concern.
Who said I'm attacking the donor?
I asked the question if the turf doesn't go through will the naming rights offer still stand if the field remains natural grass?
I'm not mixing issues any more than you are.
I'll try to make this simple for you.
Are we selling naming rights to Wildcat/Middle to finance turf?
If it's not turfed there's no demand to name it after someone?
Could it be that to fulfill the permit requirements 3:02, quite a bit more money will need to go into the turf project and the Naming Rights offer is an effort to make the added expenditures more palatable for the community?
Have we ever had anyone want to "buy" Naming Rights to a MTL field or park before?
I hope to clarify the issue, not cloud the issue. The decision to artificially turf the fields was premature. The fields are in the Historic District. Bob Prince, who received an award posthumously by the Baseball Hall of Fame, organized the Wildcats. I believe the reader has a valid concern. Can we rename a field that is in the Historic District? Can we artificially turf a historic field? If so, Wildcat or whatever name we sell out to will be the only historical artificially turfed field in the country. Are naming rights contingent upon artificially turfing the fields?
Gateway has not done their homework. The DEP is holding their feet to the fire. Does it make sense to artificially turf in a flood-prone zone? Gateway claims that toxic turf is safer than having fertilizer runoff. Mt. Lebanon does not fertilize those fields, so that point is moot.
Yes, the four commissioners have made the decision to turf those fields. Kristen Linfante may think that the commissioners have been charged with making the tough decisions, without referendums, input from Advisory Boards, geologists, toxicologists, or journals from the medical professionals, but she forgot that she/they have to answer to the PA Department of Environmental Protection, the PA Historic and Museum Commission, and the Allegheny County Conservation District.
Elaine
Thank you Elaine for clarifying several of the issues that I broached for discussion.
Hopefully they won't attempt to brand you as hostile as well.
Maybe we'd prefer to name WC/M "Gunner" or "Prince" Field!
Do we have a vote as taxpayers?
Never thought I'd say such a thing, but in this case thank goodness for the regulators cause our elected and appointed officials ain't worth a damn and can't be trusted!
Thank you Elaine for your lucid summary of turf issues. You have several good arguments against the turf. I do have two questions:
1) Has the Historic District been approved yet?
2) If not, can the field be turfed before the District is approved assuming the permit is received?
4:26 PM, you are going to love this one. Check out the minutes from page 2 of the 8/18/14 Mt.Lebanon Historic Preservation Board meeting minutes. Read the Staff Liaison report. Susan Morgans reports that "he" (Mt. Lebanon resident and friend of John Bendel, Bill Callahan?) will see what the hold up is and push the project through the PHMC.
On one hand, we have the Mt. Lebanon Historic Preservation Board still talking about bricks and is willing to investigate the hold up for turfing historic fields while The Historical Society of Mount Lebanon is sending me wonderful stories and photographs of our historic Wildcat Field. John Bendel wants to preserve the historical integrity of a brick road, yet wants to strip mine a field with a history dating back to World War II, and make it the first historical artificial turfed field in the country.
Elaine
5:01 PM, after reading the minutes that I posted at 5:31 PM, I would think that there are several members of the Mt. Lebanon Historic Preservation Board who will see to it that the project goes through, regardless of the answers to your two questions.
Elaine
Thank you for posting those minutes, Elaine.
Several items stand out.
Why isn't Gateway pushing for artifical plastic flowers for the garden beds. Current artificial flowers are so life-like, never need maintenance, watering and they stay in bloom in January and February increasing the enjoyment of seeing colorful blooms all year long.
Hey, if its good enough for ball fields!
Second, the argument for preserving bricked roads seems to be "damn the cost, bricks are historic."
Seem contrary to the prevailing Bendel-esque attitude that tearing out historic grass is a fiscally responsible idea.
Forked-tongued Blue Devil! that one is, eh?
This is a bit off topic, but for those that believe an indoor facility will be built on the Rock Pile... no can unless they build another $1,000,000 bridge to attach it to the current high school or they jump through numerous zoning issues that forbid another structure on the school grounds.
There are historic reasons this field is called "Wildcat" and given that it exists within a state and national historic district, it should not renamed.
If our leadership could, they'd turf Gettysburg and rename it at the same time. There's no structure, Mr Callahan, so why not turf it?
6:10 PM Nice going on your zoning knowledge. You are absolutely correct. Even the "Gang of 4" [Muni Planning(McGill), Muni Engr.(Deiseroth), Traffic Engr.(Deiseroth),Zoning Officer(Berkley)] cannot dispute or try to sweep that under the rug.
Thank you 10:55 PM! 8:41PM
Please DO NOT make Bob Prince some kind of hero! He was NOT... He spread death and destruction. From Banksville Road to Rt 19. He was nothing more than a DRUNK! Today he would have died in jail but back then Judges swept his crap under the carpet and families wept in silence. We sure did... And still do!
Since WHEN does Mt Lebanon have to follow the law? Name another community that would NOT have the Feds or atleast the State investigate the "Missing Parking Ticket" money? Has anyone check a certain commissioner's freezer?
Here's an idea for a brand new MTL momument to nonsense.
Let's place an obelisk about 4' high at the Corner of Cedar Blvd. and Morgan Drive.
We'll call it the Gateway monument dedicated to the idea that this area doesn't flood.
To verify that fact, we can engrave the 100 year high water mark on it every month or so just so we don't forget.
2:25 a little hostile are we.
What do you have against the Prince family to be so nasty and be disrepectful to their memories of a loved one.
Bob Prince spread death and destruction? I know he wasn't that great on the air but wow.
2:25 AM, I wish you had signed your name on that one. Those are some pretty strong statements you made there.
I don't know anything more than Baseball Hall of Famer and long time Pittsburgh Pirates announcer, Bob Prince organized the Wildcats team. Those are the facts, 2:25 AM.
Elaine
So now, we in our little bubble evaluate the worth of someone's life based on our individual analysis.
Amazing! Astounding! Unbelievable!
http://baseballhall.org/museum/awards/ford-c-frick
"The Ford C. Frick Award is presented annually to a broadcaster for "major contributions to baseball." The award, named after the late broadcaster, National League President, Commissioner, and Hall of Famer, has been presented annually since 1978. Frick was a driving force behind the creation of the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown and he helped foster the relationship between radio and the game of baseball.
The Ford C. Frick Award is presented annually during the Hall of Fame Weekend. Each award recipient (not to be confused with an inductee) is presented with a calligraphy of the award and is recognized in the "Scribes & Mikemen" exhibit in the Library of the National Baseball Hall of Fame. Below is a complete list of the Ford C. Frick Award recipients.
The selection process reflects an era-committee whereas eligible candidates will be grouped together by years of most significant contributions of their broadcasting careers.
Some noteworthies:
1978
Mel Allen
Red Barber
1979
Bob Elson
1980
Russ Hodges
1981
Ernie Harwell
1982
Vin Scully
1983
Curt Gowdy
1985
Bob Prince
1987
Harry Caray
1990
Joe Garagiola
1992
Milo Hamilton
Harry Kalas
2003
Bob Uecker
Tony Kubek
2010
Tim McCarver
2013
What's next in the Lebo bubble hit parade. Some lebomag contributor determining that Ernest Hemingway was a hack writer because he was a drunk and abandon his kids?
My opinion for what it's worth, this community has completely lost it.
From "Corbett Sucks", to personal candidate attacking email campaigns, to bullying, to secret meetings, to analyzing grocery store shoppers, we are a community that has lost its way.
I guess the question becomes, has it always been this way and blogging has just brought it to light or is it a relatively new phenomenon cause by certain groups desperately trying to stay in power.
Apologies for that lebomag analogy @ 2:14.
In searching for an example about someone with minor experience criticizing another's achievements it seemed a good analogy. Rereading it, it was obviously a poor choice.
I think 2:25 am is just trying to diminish the history of Mt Lebanon so that his/her investment in synthetic turf can be realized as quickly as possible. Attacking Bob Prince is a great way to do it.
Bob Prince is a cultural icon in Pittsburgh. If you question that, you aren't a Pittsburgher and you don't know Pittsburgh history.
What's next -- a rip on Myron Cope?
2:14: it's always been this way. It didn't used to be so blatant. Politics here has always been behind closed doors. A certain percentage of women in this community have always been snarky. It is my opinion that Elaine's blog has revealed what has been going on and is still continuing. It very intimidating to those "in power." I think the community is indebted to Elaine in her strong stance for truthfulness, transparency, and that she has had the guts to stand up and ask for our leaders to the right thing! I greatly applaud her efforts! Thank you, Elaine!!!
Can't say that I'm a long timer so I can't speak as to whether this Has been the prevailing culture.
I have though always been aware of this "we're beter than-- take your choice-- USC, Dormont, Bethel, Baldwin, Peters, Scott that seems to be so funny.
I haven't experienced this in other communities that we've lived in.
Here it seems that this attitude even gets down to streets here in the bubble.
4:41 you're so on the money about a true Pittsburgher.
They even have a "Gunner's Lounge" over at the best ball yard in the country.
Prince may have been a scoundrel, but so were or are a lot of celebraties and politicians.
So Bob Prince initiated youth organized sports in Mt Lebanon with a team named the Mt Lebanon Wildcats?
One of the most well known baseball broadcasters for over 30 years?
15,000 marched in a parade in Pittsburgh when he was fired by the Pirates -- a mistake they realized alienated fans?
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/06/11/sports/bob-prince-68-broadcaster-for-the-pittsburgh-pirates.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/sports/baseball/13king.html?_r=0
Good night everybody,
Mary Edgerley
8:03: I am not originally from ML, but have lived here for over 30 years. Not much has changed. The negative attitudes continue. 6:15 PM
http://pittsblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/enough-with-mt-lebanon.html?m=1
An interesting observation from a number of years ago.
The more things change the more they stay the same we can assume?
I remember the Bob Prince garbage. Think it was 1977 or 1978. My then girlfriend witnessed the accident on Washington Road out by the Village. She went through hell! She had nightmares about the actual accident and more from all the attacks during the legal dealings. They even had Private Investigators follow her around. All for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But this is Mt Lebanon and sweeping DUIs under the carpet is an art. From the Christmas Parade to Bower Hill New Years Eve accident. And for the person that brought up Mr Cope... For years Castle Shannon Police had his car's bumper in their station. Seems he left it behind while driving DRUNK!
"After the failure of his first experimental explorations around Vicksburg, a committee of abolition war managers waited upon the President and demanded the General’s removal, on the false charge that he was a whiskey drinker, and little better than a common drunkard. “Ah!” exclaimed Honest Old Abe, “you surprise me, gentlemen. But can you tell me where he gets his whiskey?” “We cannot, Mr. President. But why do you desire to know?” “Because, if I can only find out, I will send a barrel of this wonderful whiskey to every general in the army.”
A community of characters, not with character.
To Whomever is degrading Myron Cope:
I intentionally used his name in my previous post because I knew him personally, and that he was a man of true character. Not only would he refrain from assaulting the legacy of people he did not know, he left this region a better place and he was not a drunk driver whose bumper was left in Castle Shannon garage.
Among his good deeds was the decision to provide the Allegheny Valley School, which is a network of campuses and group homes across Pennsylvania for people with severe intellectual and developmental disabilities, almost all the profits from sales of Terrible Towels.
End of story.
10:47 you're wasting your bytes. These are the attractive, prim and proper people you're disagreeing with. Their position and judgement is the only one that counts!
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