I sent an email to Commissioner Kelly Fraasch asking for an update on the archery program. The PA Game Commission did not grant an extension.
Here is Kelly's email.
Hi Elaine,
Sorry for delay.
It appears we have not been able to secure that extension that Chief was talking about and Commissioners were hoping for to host an archery program with the staff.
Now the focus is on the permits for trap n bolt and sterilization.
Kelly
The municipality is now soliciting bids for sterilization and to trap and kill deer in Mt. Lebanon. The Request For Proposals (RFP) is listed here
on the municipal website. Read section II of the RFP. It talks about 346 deer being counted in March 2013. As an afterthought, the following was added. "A subsequent count of
196 deer was taken by Vision Air in March of 2014."
There will be
NO archery program in Mt. Lebanon at this time.
In Steve Feller's weekly report to the commission and staff sent out yesterday,
60 comments:
Wait I thought Commissioner Linfante's 'expert' said we had something like 700 deer?
Plus, the Game Commission isn't approving a municipal hunt using 5 " vetted" archers, but unchecked, undocumented hunters can shoot deer on private land!
How absurd is that?
The number quoted by Kristen Linfante was 600 deer. That number was decided in a telephone conversation she had with a deer expert. No aerial survey or any other scientific method was used to calculate that estimate.
Elaine
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/south/2014/12/22/Mt-Lebanon-cancels-archery-deer-culling-population-licenses/stories/201412220174
Another Linfante
"Things crystallized last month when a state wildlife conservation officer told the commissioners that the deer herd must be culled.
Ms. Linfante said she understood from that meeting that an archery hunt must occur as a precursor to any other kind of deer management."
If an archery hunt MUST occur as a precursor to any other kind of deer management, Ms. Linfante, and the Game Commission isn't allowing the archery hunt... how are we now pursuing trap and kill or sterilization?
Do certain commissioners pay attention to what they're being told or are they making things up as they go along?
Why does the RFP have "There is no hunting permitted in the community" under item II. Background information?
Linfante says private hunts are legal and the Chief doesn't intend to investigate if there are any unless someone complains.
Maybe those out there with the "eat more venison" signs can trade them for another "drive like your kids live here sign."
--Tom the Tinker
Another absurdity in the RFP.
The contractors are suppose to cull 150 deer in two months- Feb 1 thru Mar 31. Now then, they admit the survey in 2014 found only 196 deer.
So the contractor should they chose to accept this mission impossible, Mr. Phelps, is to for all practical purposes exterminate or sterilize nearly the entire deer population using public areas and no feeding.
Remember, beside the No Hunting rule, it is also illegal to feed deer in MTL.
Tom the Tinker -
Those "drive like your kids here" signs have been going down because the parents and residents learned that the traffic engineer and municipality employees falsified street classifications to deny traffic calming to streets that were waiting for the assistance for 10 years. Nothing like child endangerment on school walking routes.
Hey 12:27 PM, now we're going to have to deal with the solicitor and game commission (maybe even Bill Clinton) determining whether baiting deer with food is the same as feeding deer with food. It may depend on the intended purpose of the food - trap & kill or sustain - which is not a consideration in or part of the no feeding ordinance. Does state baiting trump muni feeding ? Life is becoming too complicated and ridiculous.
We'll probably get some Clinton-like definition like "It depends on what your definition of what 'is' is."
When do we start pulling together candidates so we can stop this train wreck?
6:09 PM, now.
Bendel is running again, Kristen is not, and I am not sure about Kelly. That is the majority on the commission.
On the school board, five seats are up. That is the majority on the school board.
Next month is when candidates start circulating nomination petitions gathering enough signatures to be placed on the ballots in May. The calendar for elections is on the county website.
Elaine
I have read the terms of the contract proposal for the deer elimination program. I've noticed in the document for bidding, that there is no wording whatsoever, of which specific individual will be supervising the hunt by the municipality! I'm sure that Mr. Feller cannot do all the supervising by himself. WHO will be in charge everyday in checking that all requirements are being followed through during the hunt. Where are the names of other people imvolved in this! Why is there no mention of involving the police department?The contract stipulates that whoever gets the bid, rhe contractor agrees to all liability issues. The muni has whimper out. Since I've read on this blog indicating certain residents have been doing their own private hunt, it isapparent to me there is a high degree of deception, lying, and who knows what!!! The municipality has done no survey from residents regarding safety issues. Since the PGM determines safety standards, why is the municipality overriding Federal Law as what is safe hunting and what is not in our community? This is a one way contract and not valid.
From 8:46: correction: the muni has whimped out on liability issues!
"Community with Character"
TRAP and BOLT ANIMAL CRUELTY
Clover Trap and Bolt
See link below to view a short video that gives an example of the intense stress, panic, and struggle that deer experience in a clover trap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XezJJNzg3nY
After the deer are trapped in a clover trap a hired contractor collapses the trap on the deer and attempts to steady the deer while another contractor fires the bolt gun -- a 4 inch retractable steel rod -- into her skull. Since the deer are inadequately restrained and are strong and heavy, they frequently manage to move. The bolt-gun is then misfired into their eye, jaw, ear or nose. The contractor must reload the bolt gun before trying again. Death from the bolt-gun is often not immediate, adding more prolonged suffering to already terrified animals.
Net and Bolt
See net and bolt video below. An explosive charge propels nets over a group of deer, tossing them in the air and ensnaring them. They thrash around, crying out in fear and panic as they are shot in the head with metal bolts.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=neOr8F8c6as
EXPERT TESTIMONIALS
Jack Schrier, the NJ Fish & Game Council
The U.S. Veterinarians' Association has stated publicly that net-and-bolt is not appropriate for use in the field. If this loathsome slaughterhouse killing method is employed in any town, it will debase that town and its good people.
Allen T. Rutberg, Ph. D., School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University
My personal opinion ... is that netting & bolting free range deer is at best difficult to carry out humanely and at worst is brutally cruel. Because the practice localizes responsibility for killing with specific property owners, it also stirs up personal animosity among members of the community. Again in my opinion, the potential for animal suffering and the elevated animosity generated by the practice outweighs any benefits that might be achieved by deer population reduction.
Peggy W. Larson, DVM, MS, JD
[Trap and Bolt] This is a very inhumane way to rid yourselves of excess deer because of the extreme fright experienced by the deer and because the captured bolt does not effect a clean kill when the animal’s head is not immobilized. ... If a wounded deer escapes the netting, a resident of the town could be injured and the town held liable. Anyone watching this violent procedure or even knowing about it certainly would find it unpleasant and some may find it emotionally traumatic, especially children. Bait, net and attempt to kill is not a humane solution.
John W. Grandy, Ph.D. Senior Vice President of The Humane Society of the United States
The Humans Society of the United States (HSUS) is committed to preventing needless pain and suffering to all animals. It is cruel to attempt to euthanize a wild animal with a captive bolt gun because the animal will suffer needlessly and terribly. There is nothing remotely humane in this process.
Laura Simon, Wildlife Biologist, The Humane Society of the United States
I am writing to object strongly to your town’s plan to use trapping and the captive bolt as a management tool for white-tailed deer. The HSUS is committed to preventing suffering in all animals. We firmly believe that it is impossible to ensure that this technology is used correctly and consistently enough in the field to provide a humane death to deer. Captive bolt guns are designed for use on restrained domestic animals in highly structured and controlled environments. Even there, the "humaneness" of these devices has been called into question. These guns were not designed for use on wild animals under any circumstances, and certainly not as a management tool for white-tailed deer.
"Community with Character"
If trap-and-bolt isn't horrific, inhumane, and immoral enough, many of the doe killed will be pregnant and have fully developed and ready to be born baby fawns inside them. A deer's gestation period is about 6.5 months (200 day avg.). Mating season is from Sept. thru Nov. The doe start delivering their babies March thru July. So many of the doe trapped and killed in Feb. and March will be pregnant and ready to deliver, and some doe will have just delivered their babies. Those babies will die from starvation once their moms are killed.
The Humane Society of the United States
November 6, 2012
David Brumfield
Mt. Lebanon Commission
710 Washington Road
Mt. Lebanon, PA 15228
Dear Commissioner Brumfield and other Mt. Lebanon Commission Members;
I am writing on behalf of the Humane Society of the United States and its 638,000 members and constituents in Pennsylvania. The reason for this letter is to comment on a proposal to use clover traps to capture white-tailed deer and then shoot them at close range with a pistol.
While it may sound humane to live capture deer in this way and then euthanize them, the reality is quite different. First of all, deer are extremely stress-prone animals with a highly developed flight response. Once captured, deer tend to panic and "bounce off the walls" in response to being captured and restrained. Their fear level is compounded by the lack of visual barriers, which allows them to see oncoming threats but lack the capability to flee.
Trapped deer are especially prone to a syndrome called capture myopathy, which results from restraint-induced stress triggering a life-threatening physiological response. The outcome is a delayed death, even if the deer is released.
Any effort to safely and humanely kill deer captured in a clover-trap will be arduous and potentially dangerous. The stress levels of deer in a clover trap approached by humans can be huge. Some deer will lie down and try to become invisible, but others will repeatedly charge all the sides of the trap, making a lethal shot extremely difficult at best.
There are various protocols which can be used for capturing and killing deer in clover- traps, yet all have high potential for inhumane outcomes.
One scenario is that a person wrestles the deer to the ground, which, despite much experience handling and restraining wild animals, can lead to injury and extreme stress levels for the deer. Or a collapsible clover trap may be used, which means high stress and injury potential when the trap is collapsed on the deer, before it is restrained and shot in the head. Another scenario involves the deer being killed by gunshot, yet the shooter stands outside the trap. To do this properly, the trap must be located near an adequate natural backstop, which many properties don’t have. In addition, it can be extremely difficult to place a fatal shot at a panicked, quick-moving deer when the shooter is standing at a distance, outside the trap.
And of course pistols, like all firearms, are susceptible to ricochet and misfire, which raises additional humane and safety issues.
The potential for trap-induced injuries poses even more concerns: The clover trap’s trip wire can be an enormous hazard to a frightened deer (especially a buck). And there are many clover traps out there that are old, poorly designed, patched with wire or with holes big enough for a deer to entangle a leg, antler or sometimes a neck or head. Given that deer often enter traps at night, conditions requiring artificial lighting or flashlights may further impede a quick-kill.
In a perfect world, the deer would walk into the clover trap during the day, technicians would be in the trap within minutes and able to quickly grab and restrain the deer and get a perfect head shot. And yet, as any experience field biologist will tell you, this type of scenario is the exception rather than the rule when working with large prey species like white-tailed deer.
For all these reasons, the HSUS does not recommend the use of clover traps for live-capturing and euthanizing deer. This is also why we have chosen not to utilize clover traps in our own ongoing research projects which involve capturing and hand-vaccinating deer with PZP, a contraceptive vaccine.
The HSUS strongly urges the Mt. Lebanon Commission to take the clover trap proposal off the table and instead, carefully consider the issues and recommendations raised in our prior letter to the Commission of Nov 8th, 2011.
Sincerely,
Laura Simon
Wildlife Biologist
Connecticut Field Office
Humane Society of the United States (HSUS)
The previous letter posted from The Humane Society of the United States was sent to the Mt. Lebanon Commission in 2012 in firm opposition to the use of clover traps to capture white-tailed deer and then shoot them at close range with a pistol. This method was occasionally used back in the 2007 and 2008 deer killing programs, and was being discussed and considered again at that time.
Trapping deer is extremely inhumane, and shooting them introduces the safety risks with using firearms in the community, i.e. all firearms are susceptible to missing the target, ricochet, and misfire, which raises additional humane and safety issues.
Mt. Lebanon intentionally inflates the deer numbers for the purpose of trying to slaughter all the deer in Mt. Lebanon. I'm surprised they even posted the 2014 196 deer survey; i.e. they didn't like the lower results on that survey. I still don't believe they have the 2014 deer survey posted on their deer mgt. page.
So while I believe Commissioner Linfante was saying that there are 600 deer in Mt. Lebanon, it would appear that Feller is estimating 400 deer i.e. 70 deer per sq. mile.
This number always amazes me, i.e. with that many deer in Mt. Lebanon, you'd think that they would be standing in line at the ATM machines. I've only seen two live deer (in Bird Park) and no dead deer in Mt. Lebanon. With 70 deer per sq. mile, you'd think I'd see more than that. Maybe I should go to Linfante's house; i.e. I believe she said that she has 16 deer in her back yard every day. I'm not saying there aren't any deer in Mt. Lebanon, but I believe these numbers are extremely inflated. In addition, I believe a lot of the deer in these surveys are deer that travel to Mt. Lebanon to eat the irresistible flowers that Mt. Lebanon plants in their 30+ flower islands, and the smorgasbord of flowers and plants that the gardeners and residents plant.
The deer culling vendors Mt. Lebanon brings in also inflate the deer numbers, because the higher the number the more Mt. Lebanon needs their services. That's called a conflict of Interest. Of course, all of Mt. Lebanon's deer experts are biased deer culling vendors.
Vision Air Research, Inc., the aerial deer survey company, uses a calculation that increases their deer population projection results, based on their research of not being able to identify a certain percentage of deer, because of tree and cloud cover. So the 2014 196 deer survey results included that calculation of possible deer not seen because of tree and cloud cover. In addition, from the maps I saw it appeared that a lot of deer counted were right on the border or in adjacent communities, i.e. a lot of transient deer. Of course, there are new births and deaths between these surveys, and so none of them are accurate.
Bottom line, killing 150 deer is likely slaughtering the entire deer population in Mt. Lebanon.
Mrs. Linfante won't give up her elephant ivory bow. She considers it an extension of her arm.
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/environment/2015/01/18/How-tiny-bits-of-ivory-snare-symphony-musicians-crossing-borders/stories/201501180065
7:15 AM, kind of like how the elephant considered the ivory was an extension of his tusk.
6:28 AM, we were supposed to kill 150 deer in the second culling and they couldn't meet that number.
Also, the 30+ flower islands that you mentioned, did you know that Gateway gets paid to design those flower islands, even though we have volunteers who tried to do that for free?
5:04 AM, The letter from The Humane Society's Laura Simon which describes the trap and kill method is beyond words. OMG.
4:24 AM, your comment made me cry.
These commissioners are despicable.
Elaine
I should also add that when Wildlife Services was having trouble meeting the 150 deer quota, the municipality doubled the nights of killing by calling the number of nights spent as "half-nights." They still couldn't kill 150 deer. Yet, my nights of terror were doubled. I wrote many letters to the commission and municipal staff and spoke at commission meetings, with no luck of getting anyone to listen. That was my first encounter with Susan Morgans. She questioned why, at every meeting, I said the same thing over and over again during Citizen Comments.
Elaine
Does Linfante ever think before she speaks.
"“It’s like carrying around a piece of artwork,” she said. “No one could suggest that a change be made to the Mona Lisa.”"
No one ever suggest changing the Mona Lisa because there is no ivory in it or banned substances.
Besides how can world-renown Yo Yo Ma find a way to compromise, but Linfante can't.
Tells you everything.
This probably won't make your blog, but here is the opinion of the very right wing editor of the Trib.
http://triblive.com/opinion/colinmcnickle/7531820-74/deer-zoe-kirkland#axzz3P2Q5caz4
Why would you say that, 11:04 AM?
The same thing happened to Timmy, the dog. In case you didn't know, deer feces is like caviar to dogs. We've also had dogs who would clean out the litter box before we had a chance to get to it. What's your point, Colin McNickle?
Elaine
"Community “leaders,” egged on by the tyranny of an ignorant minority, have dickered, dithered and elevated “dumb” to new lows for years on the issue of culling the exploding herd." — Colin McNickle
The definitiin online of ignorant...
ig·no·rant/ˈiɡnərənt/
adjective
lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.
I wonder how the editor of a highly respected major newspaper established that the minority is ignorant, uneducated and unsophisticated. Did he test them? Did he speak to each one individually? How did he establish that these supposedily "ignorant" people are in the minority regarding a deer cull.
Did he survey the community? Run a poll?
No, he's shooting his mouth off.
Perhaps McNickle should heed the advice of one of our great presidents.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." —Abraham Lincoln
You owe your Mt. Lebanon neighbors that you insulted an apology Mr. McNickle.
Colin's point is he's too lazy to keep an eye on what his dog eats or police his yard. He wants everybody to kill for him.
"Exploding herd", Mr. McNickle?
By what means did you arrive at that fact?
Mt. Lebanon spent very good money on surveys which established there were 346 deer in March of 2013.
The March 2014 survey counted 196.
Yeah, we know... the deer were much smarter in 2014 and hid under trees and cloud cover.
Maybe Mr. McNickle it is you that is full of excrement.
Mr. McNickle, I'm tired of every owner that walks their dog(s) in our neighborhood viewing our pachysandra as their dogs private urinal.
I don't lobby for culling them and I certainly don't go around writing editorials that they are ignorant.
At the 6:00 minute mark of the January 5, 2015 meeting, Carolyn Byham made a fool of herself. She got the referendum information incorrect, and the amount of the commissioners who are behind deer management. Dave Brumfield told Mrs. Byham that the commissioners did exactly what her group wanted them to do. The commissioners listened to the Game Commission. Who else are they supposed to listen to?
If you want to talk about ignorance or being uninformed, it would be the pro-kill people. What else are the commissioners to do? Tyranny? I am seeing it with the former commissioners and certain editors of newspapers.
Elaine
Mt. Lebanon a community guided by... aggrandizement, boasting, elaboration, exaltation, excess, extravagance, fabrication, falsehood, fancy, fantasy, hogwash, hyperbole, inflation, magnification, misjudgment, misrepresentation, overemphasis, overestimation, pretentiousness, rant, and untruth.
Ha. Carolyn Byham? Talk about a golden oldie. She and her cronies used to run Lebo. They were the coolest, most awesome power chicks in...well, Lebo. Then they all became irrelevant. Didn't know that had changed.
Am I the only one who thinks maybe McNickle wrote that piece tongue-in-cheek? I usually enjoy his writing and would be really disappointed if he were being sincere with his nasty words.
I've been reading Colin McNickle's diatribes demonizing Mt. Lebanon deer for years now, and THAT'S ALL HE HAS! - that his Chihuahua didn't feel well and had diarrhea, and that this "might" be related to her eating deer poop, or maybe rabbit poop, how about raccoon or squirrel poop, or maybe her own poop. Maybe she ate some fatty table scraps that gave her some gastrointestinal upset, or maybe she ate some grass that had been sprayed with a herbicide or pesticide. Who the heck knows.
McNickle's writes, "The vet suspects she picked up some kind of infection from all the deer excrement. Not only has he seen a spike in such infections recently, he's beside himself that little or nothing is being done." RIGHT, this really sound believable. I've taken my sick pets to vets for years and never once did they ever bring up deer poop. But McNickle's vet is beside himself with this out of control deer poop pandemic. :)
I don't know if McNickle's doe Zoe was truly sick or not. I hope not, because I love all dogs. However, I doubt that she was sick because she ate deer poop, and I don't believe the vet comments at all. IMO, this is just another made up anecdotal story to try to demonize deer and scare residents.
On the question of dogs eating deer poop concerns, Dr. Patty Khuly replies: "most deer poop is pretty innocuous. It will NOT tend to make your dog sick."
"Deer poop is just recycled grass", Dr. John, Small animal veterinarian.
Deer poop is harmless and is good for the grass.
3:44 PM, I've watched Carolyn Byham speak at the public comments a number of times. She always presents herself with a snobby elitist aire of, "DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM !!!", I'm wealthy, I own a lot of property, and I'm an ex-Commissioner!!! Then afterwards she huddles with Susan Fleming Morgans, PIO and Mt. Lebanon Magazine's Editor-in-Chief in the back of the room. I always found it quite humorous.
Continue reading McNickle's opinion piece and you will learn...
"Now, some gun ranges, such as the Library Sportsmen's Association in Finleyville (of which I am a member)..."
My guess is that Colin McNickle thinks that the role of a right wing conservative columnist at the Trib should be pro-gun, pro-hunting, and pro-shooting anything, even in a densely populated and developed community like Mt. Lebanon - and I guess pro-animal cruelty too. However, he couldn't be more wrong. Many of my Mt. Lebanon friends, who would make McNickle look like a left wing liberal, are the most committed and outspoken residents against this deer slaughter. Actually, Mr. McNickle is supporting an all Democrat Commission. Hell, he could lose his job for that! :)
The opposition to the use of lethal weapons and the inhumane slaughter of deer in Mt. Lebanon is a nonpartisan union of residents committed to the same goals. This same nonpartisan demographic seems to have also come together in its opposition to the use of artificial turf. So national partisanship is not at play at all in Mt. Lebanon, and I've found it inspiring that so many divergent groups of residents have come together to oppose the deer slaughter and artificial turf. It actually gives me some hope for our country's future.
I would recommend to Mr. McNickle that he buy and read Matthew Scully's book, "The Power of Man, the
Suffering of Animals, and the Call to Mercy". Matthew Scully is a renowned conservative and served as special assistant and deputy director of speechwriting to U.S. President George W. Bush.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” ― Upton Sinclair
I think McNickle's is a Chihuahua with diarrhea.
That wasn't nice, 6:07 PM.
I haven't seen any announcements on the municipal website updating residents on the status of the archery extension. There was nothing in the paper, was there? I haven't received a LeboALERT.
I guess this post is another Lebo[Citizens]ALERT. :)
Elaine
The state should pass a law that bans feeding deer. This will help to address the feeding that goes on in neighboring communities and may help to sustain deer in the area.
The PGC says "please don't feed the deer" but why are they so soft on this issue?
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1253813&mode=2#StopFeedingDeer
NY state, in response to chronic wasting disease concerns, has already banned feeding deer:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7197.html
When I want to read what is going on in Mt. Lebanon, I depend on the unofficial online news source... Lebocitizens.blogspot.com.
Not that other "official" rag that is a day late and a dollar too expensive to run.
Thank you, 10:49 PM. I see this is my 1,500th published post. Our local governments give me so much material, that I don't understand why our two Public Information Offices can't produce more than they do. Maybe they are understaffed.
Elaine
Not understaffed, overpaid.
Colin McNickle wrote, "a tyranny of an ignorant minority". He must be a lot smarter than me, because I don't even understand what that means.
I've read a number of Mr. McNickle's articles about deer in Mt. Lebanon. However, he doesn't seem to have any knowledge or expertise of deer reproductive science or wildlife management, or support anything he says with facts. He has his own opinion, and as a Mt. Lebanon resident has a right to give his opinion. He apparently has a personal obsession with trying to turn Mt. Lebanon into a shooting gallery, and he has a platform to spout off his opinion as often as he likes.
Enough about McNickles. However, what is really ignorant and dumb is when community leaders are presented with facts and peer reviewed studies on deer reproduction science and behavior, and ignore these facts.
While it may seem counter intuitive, killing deer actually triggers an increase in deer reproduction and population. This phenomena is called compensatory reproduction or reproductive rebound, and is a well documented population dynamic in deer and other mammals. When the deer herd density is temporarily reduced through hunting, culling, or trapping, there is reduced competition for food, and the number of twins and triplets born actually increases. Studies have show that after a hunt surviving females produced enough offspring to not only replace those killed, but enough to actually increase the size of the herd. This phenomenon explains why hunting as a management tool has resulted in an ever-increasing number of deer in this country.
For example, a study conducted by the Dept of Wildlife and Range Sciences, School of Forest Resources and Conservation at the University of Florida sampled deer from five separate sites: three hunted and two nonhunted. The study found that the incidence of twins being born to a pregnant doe was higher on hunted land than on non hunted land. The study found the incidence of twinning was 38% on hunted sites and 14% on nonhunted sites. No twinning was observed among pregnant fawns or yearlings from nonhunted areas, whereas...18% of the pregnant yearlings and...33% of the pregnant fawns from hunted areas carried twins." (Reproductive Dynamics Among Disjunct White-tailed Deer Herds in Florida", Journal of Wildlife Management [1985]).
Laura Simon, The Humane Society of the United States's (HSUS) wildlife biologist writes: “One of the main problems with trying to manage deer through any kind of hunting or culling – as repeatedly cited during a Smithsonian Institute conference on Deer Overabundance (McShea et. al 1997) – is that deer are highly prolific, and their high reproductive rate can quickly compensate for declines in their population. They exhibit higher productivity (i.e. more twins and triplets are born, have higher survival rates, etc.) as their numbers lessen and more food becomes available for the remaining deer. In other words, they ‘bounce back’. ... We do not see any evidence that hunting or culling works over the long-term or is an answer for suburban deer conflicts.”
Killing deer is not a solution to a problem, but a commitment to a permanent problem.
10:34 PM I think it's an inaccurate assumption that there are a lot of residents intentionally feeding deer. I don't know of anyone feeding deer. The main deer feeding going on is the smorgasbord of irresistible flowers and plants that gardeners and residents grow in their yards, and that Mt. Lebanon plants in its 30+ flower islands throughout the community. It's this abundant food resource that is the major attractant causing deer to travel into Mt. Lebanon crossing the roads (car-deer collisions) and to browse (eating flower complaints). Mt. Lebanon has to reach out to its residents and ask for their help; hold deer proofing seminars, and show the residents how they can have beautiful gardens and landscapes by planting deer resistant plants and flowers, and using repellents and other effective deterrents.
Bird feeders are also a major deer attractant. How many homes have bird feeders in Mt. Lebanon? However, most deer come out at dawn and dusk looking for food, and if residents feed the birds during the day, that shouldn't be a problem. They just shouldn't use those bird feeders that hold 5 days worth of seed. You can require that bird feeders be placed out of the reach of deer, but deer can stand on their rear legs and stretch their necks to reach 7 or 8 feet, higher than most bird feeder stands and poles available - so that doesn't seem effective. You can't have busy police officers wasting their valuable time and tax payers money investigating bird or deer feeder violations. Well maybe you can, but it doesn't seem cost effective or practical. And if a deer is eating out of someone's bird feeder, is that a citable violation?
I believe Mt. Lebanon's deer feeding ban says something about bird feeders must be a certain height off the ground, but that's not effective, and they don't enforce it. So they either have to pass a bird and wildlife (inc. squirrels) feeding ban, or just ask residents to please only feed the birds between certain hours of the day.
10:34, the problem with deer feeding ordinances is they fly in the face of property rights we hold dear in this the second state of the union.
Someone here suggested McNickle's deer poop column might have been tongue-in-cheek.
Hard to tell if they're right.
After reading another of his columns, I do get the impression he's all in for sharp shooting in our densely populated community though.
He also uses the "exploding herd" description again, though doesn't offer any qualifiers as to how he reached that conclusion.
http://triblive.com/mobile/7125815-96/gruber-brumfield-pileggi
Wait, after some time consuming research by one of his "ignorant" neighbors, it becomes plainly obvious that McNickle's deer poop column wasn't tongue-in-cheek.
He wants the deer exterminated. It is also obvious that he loves calling people ignorant. In the link below he insults the commissioners.
Apparently, the only person in Lebo not ignorant is McNickle... in his opinion!
I hope- if sharpshooters are ever brought in- they fire in the direction of his house and not mine.
http://triblive.com/mobile/7450579-96/deer-lebanon-safety
3:39, I agree with you wholeheartedly except that someone standing on such a high soapbox as the one McNickle has, should be called out for calling people ignorant. Which obviously, you are not.
3:39-- FYI on Tyranny of the Minority. McNickle just added what must be one of his favorite words... ignorant.
https://publius2013.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/tyranny-of-the-minority/
Colin McNickle is definitely pro-kill. He has been writing about killing deer for years. It is ironic that he gets paid to voice his opinion, but I do it here for free and get chastised. The difference between Mr. McNickle and me is that I back everything up with facts. It is a great job if you can get away with it, Buddy.
I hope well-informed Lebo Citizens readers are writing to the commissioners and sharing their facts with them. Our elected officials "don't read the blog" and miss out on all this. Some depend on Steve Feller's weekly Administrative Reports or LeboALERTS to stay on top of local issues. And we all know how that is working for them.
Elaine
The problem is that when people read stuff from source like McNickle at the Trib or Morgans at MTL magazine they assume what they write is always fact.
Same with Commissioner statements.
These people say the deer population is exploding or that there are 600 deer per square readers don't question their claims.
Not because they're ignorant, it just that they're programmed not to question "authority" figures.
Demand McNickle prove his "exploding herd" claim with hard, scientific proof and he'll probably go silent.
Culling seems to me to be a knee-jerk reaction to a problem.
USC has been conducting culls for years, we did also in '07 or '08 and yet thedeer issue seems to growing if you accept Linfante's and McNickle's views.
The question that needs to be asked is why is this such a big problem NOW?
Lebo is over 100 years old, were dere always a problem? Are they being attracted by our new high school and crown jewel turf?
It seems to me that finding a proactive solution rather than an annual reactive cull is the wisest path.
More than likely Elaine it was McNiclkle who fed you the link. Views to his link is how he earns his keep.
Thank you, 9:48 AM. I wouldn't doubt it. I am well aware of how it works.
Elaine
Based on the 2013 survey of 346 deer and the 2014 survey finding 196 deer Mt. Lebanon seems to be a good job reducing the herd through No feeding ordinances, running them down with cars and conducting private hunts.
No one got hurt, except for that hapless driver that figured it was safer and cheaper to crash their vehicle into a utility pole and roll it than just deal with the deer.
So why are we looking to spend $68,000 on some sort of cull?
At the rate we're going deer should be completely eradicated in about another year and a half.
9:27 The proactive solution would be Kelly Fraasch's idea for sterilization.
11:56... yep!
That and smart gardening.
...and enforcement of the feeding ban!
Does MTL ever enforce the rules for the against feeding the deer?
Maybe we should have an ordinance that prohibits deer from feeding dogs.
That way the Chief can lock up the deer and we'll reduce McNickle's vet's anxiety. ;-)
MtL doesn't even enforce parking ticket fines.
Another great quote from our traveling musician/commissioner. "You're in their hands. It's in their hands, and you don't want it in their hands."
That was in the blog talking about the article that ran in yesterday's PG.
http://blogs.post-gazette.com/arts-entertainment/measured-words/43388-traveling-as-a-classical-musician
Kristen, now you know how we feel about you in office representing us.
Elaine
1:41 PM It can go something like this - the cops will only respond to a citizens complaint, say your neighbor. They are not patrolling looking for offenders. The cops might respond by calling you or visiting your premises. Unless your neighbor has you in a photo or video feeding the deer, there is no proof. Deny everything, say your neighbor is a wacko, disgruntled and all you have been doing is feeding wild birds in your back yard (have a half empty bird feed bag handy)- it's a nice idea to feed wild birds anyway.
Were you aware that Mt. Lebanon also has a barking dog ordinance as well ? If your neighbor complaining about feeding deer has a barking dog, you know what to do.
Latest email exchange with Kelly Fraasch.
"I am meeting with Steve Feller today and was going to ask him what the plan was for notification to the public.
I will let you know.
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 7:17 AM, egillen476@aol.com wrote:
Kelly,
Thank you for answering my question about the archery program extension. Even though the extension was discussed at the meeting, the outcome has never been made public. I don't understand why this was not shared with residents.
Elaine Gillen"
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