The Post-Gazette reported:
Quietly, discreetly, a few civic-minded archers have been hunting for deer in Mt. Lebanon for years.CIVIC-MINDED? Since when does someone who is civic-minded wants his last name withheld to avoid upsetting neighbors? Civic-minded, according to Merriam-Webster: tending to do things that help your city or town and the people who live there.
“I’ve taken five does out,” said Dave, a Mt. Lebanon archer who asked that his last name be withheld to avoid upsetting neighbors.
John Hayes' Mt. Lebanon's deer herd in the crosshairs After years of population growth, the South Hills suburb plans to corral and kill dozens of deer. How did it come to this? is full of bullshit.
Outraged animal lovers call it “carnage.”Mr. Hayes neglects to include those of us who are concerned with the safety of Mt. Lebanon residents. These areas are in public parks and in close proximity to neighborhood schools.
Hayes quotes the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. He also writes:
After much debate, commissioners implemented a then-controversial taxpayer-funded deer reduction program combining U.S. Department of Agriculture sharpshooters and a limited trap-and-kill operation that removed 230 deer in two years. Before the program had met its goals, it was discontinued in 2008.What Hayes fails to mention is that in each of the years when Mt. Lebanon had "sharpshooters" and they weren't sharpshooters, by the way, Wildlife Services failed to meet their goal.
Season 1 - goal was 75 deer. 69 were killed.
Season 2 - goal was 150 deer. After doubling the nights agreed upon by Mt. Lebanon calling them "half-nights," 146 deer were killed. 145 were recovered and tagged (Lindendale deer was not tagged)
The bogus deer "incident" report is continually brought up by the media. The 807 deer related incidents include deer sightings and my August 20, 2014 report WHICH NEVER OCCURRED.
Hayes continues with:
The state Game Commission and most wildlife agencies estimate deer density using habitat analyses, road kills and other circumstantial metrics rather than hard counts, which are considered to be expensive and not particularly reliable.Each aerial survey cost Mt. Lebanon $5,000. The 2013 count of 342 was "extremely accurate." The 2014 count of 196 done by the same firm, at the same time of the year, showing a 43% reduction, suddenly was not. (Why can't I find the 2014 aerial survey on the municipal website?) The counts done by Wildlife Services in 2006-2008 were compiled over a series of nights, possibly counting the same deer over and over.
The PA Game Commission's Chris Rosenberry failed to confirm that deer sterilization is a proven, effective method of non-lethal deer management. Science IS there, Mr. Rosenberry.
Finally, John Hayes again chose to ignore the press release which states that there will be another protest tomorrow at 5:30 PM. Good work, John.
*************
Petition: Stop the deer culling! As of 2:27 PM on February 22, 2015, there are 4,369 supporters.
I located the email addresses of the Scott Township commissioners.
Craig Stephens craigs6785@gmail.com
Stacey Altman staceyalt@msn.com
David Calabria dcalabria@mackinengineering.com
Thomas Castello tcastello@aol.com
David Jason dave.commissioner@live.com
Patricia Caruso caruso1386@comcast.net
Donald Giudici dwgiudici_cpa@hotmail.com (Twin Hills Park is in his ward)
William Wells redwagon2@verizon.net
Eileen Meyers commeileen@comcast.net
John Hayes has a second article in the PG today, Outdoors notebook: Hunters take aim at Mt. Lebo deer cull More on "Dave."
John Hayes has a second article in the PG today, Outdoors notebook: Hunters take aim at Mt. Lebo deer cull More on "Dave."
But hunters generally stay out of Mt. Lebanon, said Dave, because of discharge ordinances that effectively "ban" hunting. The ordinances, however, aren't enforceable - Mt. Lebanon police chief Coleman McDonough confirmed that state law and prior court decisions trump local laws that attempt to control hunting, which is solely regulated by the Game Commission.This quote really upset me.
Chris Rosenberry, head of the PGC deer and elk team that approved the plan, put it this way:The "community" telling the PGC that the problem is too many deer now is made up of Steve Feller, Kristen Linfante, Steve Silverman, Dave Brumfield, John Bendel, Barbara Logan, Marilyn Narey, Carolyn Byham, Lourdes Castellanos, and Michalina Pendzich.
"The community is telling us that the problem is too many deer now," he said. "In some way, some of the animals have to come out of the population."
54 comments:
Hmmm, so we've had an ordinance against shooting a weapon of any kind - from slingshot to rifle - and we've had archers killing deer for years and there has been no police action?
Curious, isn't it?
Sure state law trumps local ordinances but they do not eliminate the laws governing having a permit to kill deer or hunt in the required safe zones!
The PG's "civic-minded" Dave the anonymous hunter isn't so civic-minded is he?
By remaining anonymous he skirts any proof that he's taking deer legally and the chief is letting it happen right under his nose.
“I’ve taken five does out,” said Dave, a Mt. Lebanon archer who asked that his last name be withheld to avoid upsetting neighbors."
#1) apparently 'Dave' hasn't gotten permission to hunt near his neighbors since he doesn't want to "upset" them. So is he meeting the 50 yard safe zone? Perhaps the chief should check it out instead of checking on the bait stations.
#2) does Dave have the required licenses? He say he took out five does. He'd need a license for each according to PA hunting requirements.
"http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=576240&mode=2
"DEER, ARCHERY (Antlerless Only) WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D:Sept. 20-Oct. 3, and Nov. 17-29. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.
DEER, ARCHERY (Antlered and Antlerless) WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D: Jan. 12-24. One antlered deer per hunting license year. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.
DEER, ARCHERY (Antlered and Antlerless) Statewide: Oct. 4-Nov. 15 and Dec. 26-Jan. 10. One antlered deer per hunting license year. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.
DEER (Antlered and Antlerless) WMUs 1A, 1B, 2B, 3A, 3D, 5A, 5B, 5C and 5D: Dec. 1-13. One antlered deer per hunting license year. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.
DEER (Antlered Only) WMUs 2A, 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2G, 2H, 3B, 3C, 4A, 4B, 4C, 4D and 4E: Dec. 1-5. One antlered deer per hunting license year. (Holders of valid DMAP antlerless deer permits may harvest antlerless deer on DMAP properties during this period.)
DEER (Antlered and Antlerless) WMUs 2A, 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2G, 2H, 3B, 3C, 4A, 4B, 4C, 4D and 4E: Dec. 6-13. One antlered deer per hunting license year. An antlerless deer with each required antlerless license.
DEER, ANTLERLESS (Statewide): Oct. 23-25. Junior and Senior License Holders, Disabled Person Permit (to use a vehicle) Holders, and Pennsylvania residents serving on active duty in
U.S. Armed Services or in the U.S. Coast Guard only, with required antlerless license. Also included are persons who have reached or will reach their 65th birthday in the year of the application for a license and hold a valid adult license, or qualify for license and fee exemptions under section 2706. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license."
Don't the police and commissioners take an oath to uphold the laws of the Commonwealth?
Apparently, guarding corn takes precident over evrything else.
I sent an email to Steve Feller and the commission asking for the link to the 2014 aerial survey which doesn't appear to be on the municipal website. It showed a 43% reduction in deer.
Elaine
John Hayes, the Post-Gazette's pro-hunting outdoors columnist, is a total hack. He's the mouthpiece for the Pa Game Commission's efforts to promote "hunting" in all of Pittsburgh's suburban neighborhoods, and for his hunter readers who want to kill semi-tame deer in our parks and back yards.
In addition, he has also become the mouthpiece for Mt. Lebanon's pro-kill administration. I believe there was evidence in the RTK that Susan Fleming Morgans, PIO, was spoon feeding him information (can someone please confirm this, my memory is going on me.); i.e. I don't believe that Hayes attends the Commission meetings, and so don't know where he gets his article content.
Hayes is not a journalist, but an opinionated pro-hunting columnist with a biased agenda. Unfortunately, the Post-Gazette appears to allows him to write articles like he is an objective reporter, and they should be held accountable for this unprofessional journalistic confusion; i.e. readers who don't know his bias agenda think he is real reporter reporting the facts. His articles are consistently filled with misinformation and inaccurate facts. At least the PG mgt. should require fact checks on his articles.
Furthermore, there is no coincidence that Hayes published this article on Sunday, which I believe has the largest PG subscription base, in an intentional effort to influence Mt. Lebanon resident and the public buy-in to suburban deer hunting and slaughters.
Why didn't Hayes interview State Rep. (then commissioner) Miller to find out the real story on why the cull was discontinued in 2008? Doesn't support the PIO's propoganda info probably.
More lazy, BS reporting from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
I don't even believe that "Civic minded" Dave exists. NO ONE could hunt in Mt. Lebanon w/o being found out. Our community is too densely populated and developed. It just couldn't happen. I think this is a total fabrication like Commissioner Linfante's neighborhood hunt. Lying seems to be par for the course these days, even by newspaper columnists.
If "civic minded" Dave does exist, he is likely not a Lebo resident, but an illegal poacher, and he wouldn't be killing doe, he'd be killing bucks.
I'm an ex-hunter, and believe me, deer hunting is all about trophy hunting, and killing a buck with a nice rack. Anyone telling you anything different is a total liar.
If civic-minded Dave is indeed hunting on HIS private property odds are he'd need his neighbors consent. How many lots have the necessary 50 yard safe zone in all directions.
Couple that with the fact that Davey-boy would have to be one helluva shot to drop his five does 'on the spot.' arrows don't generally kill a deer that fast.
If he's shotting in public parks or near schools, the chief is obligated to collar the son-of-bitch, because doing so is illegal!
What say you now, Mr. Hayes.
I would encourage people who see illegal hunting and municipal trucks plowing snow in private driveways, to take pictures and note dates, times, names, addresses, etc... in writing. It's important to have documentation of these illegal activities.
Please read what a 13 year old from Mt. Lebanon wrote on her blog. PLEASE PLEASE READ!
I speak for the deer, for the deer are being trapped and killed and cannot speak for themselves.
What an extraordinary young lady.
Elaine
Hayes writes: "In accordance with the plan authorized by Game Commission, feeders were set up last week in posted areas of McNeilly, Bird, Robb Hollow and Twin Hills parks, Mt. Lebanon Golf Course and the Connor Road conservation district."
But on Lebocitizens it was reported:
Plus, Hayes writes: "After years of debate that has divided the community, commissioners recently voted to spend up to $75,000 per year to kill enough deer to reduce deer-vehicle collisions by 50 percent in five years."
Except on the MTL website it says that this corral and kill (up to $75,000) is ONLY PART of the 5 year deer management plan to reduce the herd by 50%. IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THIS BEING AN ANNUAL EXPENSE EVERY YEAR FOR 5 YEARS.
http://mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?nid=2114
Did the commission sneak something by us or is Hayes blowin' infomation out his _hole again.
I received this in a personal email:
Saw a couple of deer-related things: First, two deer crossing a road near Bird Park - leaving the park. Second, a cop car with lights flashing right near the deer... almost tracking the deer ...
At the very least, our very busy Mt. Lebo police are using their new cruisers to FOLLOW THE WALKING DEAD DEER AROUND! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!???
Also, no bait stations in Twin Hills that I am aware of.
Conservation District bait station is easily seen from Connor Road. Near Terrace.
Elaine
It says nothing about checking facts for a story or accurate reporting. Anonymous.
http://asne.org/content.asp?pl=236&sl=19&contentid=320
I contacted numerous groups, including wildlife specialists and the police, to let them know twin hills is in Scott (because somehow that's my responsibility?) but I have not heard back with an acknowledgement of the issue.
There's a bait station in the valley/ravine where Robb Hollow Road/Kelso makes a 90 degree turn.
Saw a MTLPD cruiser at the chained entrance to this tract, checking things.
Went down to Robb Hollow Park via Driftwood. Saw a very large area that is posted with No Trespassing signs. There may be another feeding station in the PW composting area on top of the hill but did not make it that far. If there is a station there, there is a good chance it is technically in USC.
While the folks on this board think Mt. Lebanon is falling apart, I thought you might like to hear what an actual Realtor who sells homes in Mt. Lebanon has to say to the question "Is Mt. Lebanon declining" that was posted on another board:
"To pretty much repeat what has already been said, Mt. Lebanon is not in decline. As a realtor, I see it as an attractive option to millennials who want something smaller and more urban feeling AS WELL as baby boomers whose children have grown, they are retiring, etc and want to downsize. I see houses that sell in a day (too quick to even put a sign out front), I see a lot of homes passed down to children, and homes people are willing to put work into to make it their own. Regarding the lack of new development- there really isn't the space. There are a few lots in the Sunset Hills area that are building pretty big, new homes. There just are not that many lots left, but where there are, homes are being crammed in."
You may thing the end is near. It's not. The future of Mt. Lebanon is bright.
Thank you for proving my point, 9:31 PM. There really isn't the space. Homes are being crammed in. In other words, we are a densely populated community.
Elaine
My family's only hope for a positive outcome at this point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNGGbozilko
Elaine,
The email addresses you posted for the Scott Commissioners had two mistakes.
Donald Giudici's correct email is dwgiudici_cpa@hotmail.com can you update. I believe Twin Hills is in his ward.
David Jason email bounces back. dave.commissioner@live.com Dave's the president, so can you double check your source, and update if possible.
Omitted copy from 8:27 comment--
"Lebanon Golf Course As of this afternoon, the golf course manager said there is no baiting happening at the golf course yet."
So is there a feeder at the golf course or not, Mr. Hayes? You don't really know because you just accepted what the MTL PIO told you, right?
Scott Township will be discussing Mt Lebanon's proposed use of Twin Hills Park as a cull site at their meeting tomorrow, Feb 24 at 7:30 pm. They will be voting on the issue. Their solicitor is looking into the issue currently.
Meetings in Scott, I believe are held here:
Scott Township Municipal Building,
301 Lindsay Road, Scott Township.
931:
Duh. What do you think a realtor would say? That proves nothing. It simply means someone who stands to makr money by selling over-priced homes in an over-taxed community is trying to spin it all positivd. Too bad there are so many actual real examples out there of people who know better. Lebo's future is bright? Yeah, like Detroit's future was bright in about 1998.
Further, the number $75000 keeps popping up. Im wondering how much it's costing our municipal police force to give extra attention to something that is supposed to be handled by, and the cost borne by, a private company.
The phone number to the Governor's office in Pittsburgh is 412.565.5700.
Elaine
Gov. Wolf is a friend of animals. Please call him and ask him to intervene in this issue. Mt. Lebanon is furious this has gone through and so irresponsibly- the slaughter of deer will start just down the street in our public parks! (412) 565-5700
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/south/2013/11/14/Pittsburgh-s-suburbs-a-perfect-sanctuary-for-deer/stories/201311140002
Interesting info above from the past.
"In 2008, Mt. Lebanon ended a successful program in which the Agriculture Department was paid to send sharpshooters to cull deer in problem areas. Public works director Tom Kelly said when that program ended, the deer came back.
"If anything, there was an increase in the number of deer incidents," he said. "Police tracked more detailed information on deer incidents -- dead deer removed from the road, accidents, complaints."
So we culled and according to Tom Kelly, and he told the press "the deer came back" and "if anything, there was an increase in the number of deer incidents."
That information is from a municipal manager. Did the commissioners think he was bullshitting them?
Did they shake their heads and whisper... "oh that's just crazy Tom spouting off again! We know better, we'll do something really unique and innovative-- we'll throw out some more money, and surprise, surprise, kill some more deer and all will be wonderful in the bubble."
Duh, what is the definition of insanity: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
I wrote to the Governor today:
Stop the inhumane and dangerous Mt. Lebanon Cull
Dear Governor Wolf,
The PA Game Commission recently allowed a permit for a company with ZERO experience to trap deer in a corral and walk up to the deer and shoot them with a silenced rifle. They will attract the deer using a corn-based feed. The RFP went out and asked for qualified companies with experience. Only one company responded (which happened to be the same company that helped write the RFP) and this company has no experience with this type of deer management.
I am not a hunter, nor am I an animal rights activist. I think I am probably what many of the people in Mt. Lebanon are. Just a normal guy going about my business. This plan to trap and shoot deer hits me right in the wrong spot, however. There is nothing "game" about this.
On top of this cull, it was proven that after the commission instituted a no-feeding of the deer policy the deer population dropped by almost 50%. And yet we still have some gardeners think the deer are out to get them. The deer/vehicle collisions are less than 1.5% of all accidents and the goal of this cull is to reduce the accidents by 50% over five years. That is ONE less accident per year!
There is a proven, humane method to do deer population control and it is relatively new. Maryland is trying it now and it involves surgical sterilization. The cost of this program is roughly the same as the $500 per head that is being put on the deer now. This method addresses the "rebound" effect that often happens after a straight deer kill.
To sum up, the majority of the commission voted for a program to control the deer population. They did not know what they were getting themselves into with the trap and kill and now they feel it is too late to back out. My hope is that you can help put a stop to the insanity and force the PA Game Commission to re-evaluate the effectiveness of "kill-only" programs which in turn might give Mt. Lebanon the leeway to try a surgical sterilization program.
Thanks for your attention to this matter.
There's an enemy that causes more car accidents than the deer that Mt Lebanon has a responsibility to take care of that it doesn't. It's called snow. And Mt Lebanon has been doing a very poor job at handling it.
Maybe they should be spending that $75,000 on things they're supposed to be doing instead of trying to create hysteria about a non-issue.
http://huntinginsider.com/index.php/category?id=2181&device=xhtml
How come no one ever mentions that USC instituted their deer management program after a voter referendum?
"Upper St. Clair initiated its own multi-faceted whitetail deer management program in 1998 after receiving the community's approval through a referendum vote.
During the 2011-2012 season, 122 deer were removed from the township. Mark Mansfield, assistant manager for Upper St. Clair, said the township started with a controlled archery hunt at Boyce Park and then expanded to a contracted annual culling from late January to early March in recent years."
1:45 PM, referendums have come up many times here. Queen Kristen has explained that they don't govern by referendums. We couldn't have a referendum for the turf project or the high school project, remember?
Elaine
It is a shame the gardeners refused to use this deer deterrent on their plants. It does keep deer away.
Cruelty-free Deer Repellent
Mix together in a blender:
2 cups of water
5 cloves of fresh garlic
1 cup of chopped onions
5 Tbsp. powdered hot pepper
Pour into a covered container and let stand for 24 hours. Strain and mix with 1 gallon of water. Apply to plants with a sprayer.
Elaine
I noticed that the sidewalk in front of the municipal building isn't shoveled too well. Be careful out there tonight.
Elaine
Some interesting information from Benner's Feasibility Assessment. http://mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/View/10500
"Mt. Lebanon entered into two Cooperative Service Agreements with Wildlife Services since 2006, and a Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC) Political Subdivision Permit to shoot deer was issued. Wildlife Services culled 69 and 146 deer in the 2006-7 and 2007-8 seasons, respectively. There appeared to be
a reduction in the number of roadkilled deer following the larger number of deer culled in the 2007-8 season (62 deer in 2006, 64 deer in 2007, and 48 deer in 2008). It is likely that the 69 deer culled in 2006-7 was only enough to offset growth of the herd through reproduction, whereas the 146 deer taken in 2007-8 actually reduced the population significantly."
BUT WAIT... there seems to be a conflict in the information. Tom Kelly our Public Works Manager is quoted in the Post-Gazette back in 2013 that "In 2008, Mt. Lebanon ended a successful program in which the Agriculture Department was paid to send sharpshooters to cull deer in problem areas. Kelly said when that program ended, the deer came back. He said "If anything, there was an increase in the number of deer incidents," he said. "Police tracked more detailed information on deer incidents -- dead deer removed from the road, accidents, complaints."
How can Kelly say there was an increase in accidents - especially since the police tracked for more detailed information, and Benner comes up with the opposite numbers? Is somebody cooking the books? Lying to the public? It sure appears so!!!!
Benner continues in his assessment, "Currently, we do not have an accurate
estimate of the population of white-tailed deer in Mt. Lebanon Township. We do, however, have
information which clearly indicates a severe and growing problem that is of great concern to both the managers and residents of the township."
If he doesn't have an accurate "estimate" of the deer population how can he eliminate distracted driving, texting, or speeding as a possible cause of deer collisons? Maybe the deer population hasn't grown and we just have more inattentive, distracted drivers. We have after all seem to have seen a rise in hit and runs as well. Are the deer causing that too?
Then Benner states: "8) Trap and Relocate. This technique has many disadvantages. This is very expensive
(between $500 and $1,000 per deer), causes stress (often death) for deer, may spread disease, and contributes to deer-related problems in the areas where the captured deer are released. Currently, this technique is not permitted by the Pennsylvania Game Commission (personal communication with PGC Permitting Division, August 7, 2014)."
But according to the bio of Benner's associate, Mr. Huntington, he organized trapped and relocated deer over 300 deer in NJ. So why not petition the PA Game Comission to allow a trap and transfer in Mt. Lebanon?
There are other curious or dubious claims in Benner's Feasibility Assessment to the Commissioners, but you'll have to read them for yourself. You could ask the commissioners for clarification, but I sincerely doubt you'll get a straight answer.
Did I see protestors holding posters that stated "Linfante Lied"? The 6:00 KDKA news had a story about the protest and the camera panned across the crowd. That's what it looked like.
Without official school district approval, guns cannot be knowingly discharged within 1000 ft of a public, private or parochial school. So now that we all know Twin Hills is officially in Scott and the Bird Park cull station is obviously way to close to Markham, what spot could Mt Lebanon POSSIBLY attempt to lure 150 deer to kill them?
Where is the due diligence y'all?
http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-on-guns-in-schools/
7:06 pm Yes, you saw that.
McNeilly, Bird Park and Mt Lebo Golf Course are all impacted by the 1000 ft gun free school zone federal law, then Twin Hills is in another township.... so they have access, theoretically at this point, to the 'Connor Conservation District' (which no one has ever heard of) and gold old used and abused Robb Hollow.
Hopeful for more good news....
WTAE coverage of tonight's protest.
http://m.wtae.com/news/group-protests-mt-lebanon-deer-cull-proposal/31435094
""I hate that we have to kill them, but I don't want to wait until someone dies," said Brumfield."
Is this guy serious? Wait until someone dies! Has anyone ever died in Mt. Lebanon from a deer "incident?"
We have though had several people killed or severely injured in pedestrian/vehicle mishaps. I don't see the same pressing concern about improving crosswalks and pedestrisn safety from Commissioner Brumfield.
I'd say there is a higher probability of a young athlete dying from heat stroke on Brumfield's artificial turf than someone dying from a deer incident.
To contact Concordia with your concerns about a deer cull on their property:
http://www.concordialm.org/locations/concordia-of-the-south-hills?service=46
or
Concordia of the South Hills
1300 Bower Hill Road, Pittsburgh, PA 15243
412-278-1300 or 1-877-220-7906
To contact Golden Living regarding a deer cull on their property:
Golden LivingCenter - Mt. Lebanon
350 Old Gilkeson Road
Pittsburgh, PA 15228
Email: GLC00286@goldenliving.com
(412) 205-8268
As if culling near senior citizens, some with serious neurological impairment that results in a high risk for wandering from the setting, is any safer than culling near children.
People from all over the state are upset about Mt Lebanon's plan:
http://www.outdoornews.com/February-2015/Deer-cull-in-Mt-Lebabon-Pa-annoys-upsets-readers/
Federal gun law supersedes PA Game Comission laws!
McNeilly is off the table. Too close to KO and Seton LaSalle. The location in Bird Park is off the table. Too close to Markham. There may be other locations in Bird that would be OK.
New locations being considered. Wiliamsburg Park, Concordia on Bower Hill and Golden Living on Old Gilkeson. All those senior citizens are going to have heart attacks when they find out.
Elaine
http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/7817908-74/deer-park-culling#axzz3SdDH6KsS
Concordia & Golden Livining should have a 1000 feet around it too as a gun free zone. But, as usual, our forward thinking municipality, doesn't care.
Of note, there is a preschool and kindergarten extended day program at Temple Emmanuel, which is next door to Concordia.
Can anybody create a 1000 ft radius around these three facilities on a google map image and share with the group?
And didn't I hear too Elaine that another area that Benner inquired about would be in the main park up behind the swimming pool?
Nick M.
So our "omnipotent" (well they think they are) commissioners and municipal manager fail to fully flesh another harebrained scheme and get caught with their pants down. Feeders are placed too close to schools so they've lost a week luring deer to their corral & kill sites. That leaves them with less than 36 days to kill 150 deer. Remember the corral & kill is to end on March 31st.
Remember also what Benner said in his feasibilty study... ""Mt. Lebanon entered into two Cooperative Service Agreements with Wildlife Services since 2006, and a Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC) Political Subdivision Permit to shoot deer was issued. Wildlife Services culled 69 and 146 deer in the 2006-7 and 2007-8 seasons, respectively. There appeared to be
a reduction in the number of roadkilled deer following the larger number of deer culled in the 2007-8 season (62 deer in 2006, 64 deer in 2007, and 48 deer in 2008). It is likely that the 69 deer culled in 2006-7 was only enough to offset growth of the herd through reproduction, whereas the 146 deer taken in 2007-8 actually reduced the population significantly."
So, unless Benner exterminates a number of deer somewhere very close to the 150 goal the $500/deer expense will be all for naught.
In 2006-07 69 deer were culled and the roadkilled deer went up in 2007 vs the number in 2006.
That is if we can believe any of Benner's numbers at all. Tom Kelly said incidents went up after the "successful culls."
Nick, by my calculations 1,000 feet is equal In distance to 3 football fields end-to-end.
The stadium is consider school grounds so Main Park is probably all in the Federal gun-free zone.
Hi 11:56. You're probably right which is just another example of how this whole deer cull program is ridiculous. I may be wrong but it seems like Mr. Feller sprung the 1000 ft. buffer zone to Mr. Benner at tonight's discussion meeting. When did Mr. Feller find out and if it's a state or federal law, why didn't anyone do their homework beforehand to find this out?
This goes hand in hand with wanting to know who we are dealing with and how much actual experience these folks have with the program at hand. Its mind boggling that previous experience with shooting rifles in densely populated areas at moving targets is ok but in order to hire a new public works director, experience is required. Please explain that one.
Nick M.
Didn't anyone do their homework?
I was thinking our whole local government is run by graduates of the the Alfred E. Neuman School of Municipal Government.
"What-Me-Worry?"
Yes, Nick. Main Park now. I gasped when Brian Benner said that.
Susan Morgans went after me about her phone as the discussion session began. She started waving her phone at me and started to talk about her cover on her phone and for me to "QUIT LYING." I held up my hand to her and said,"Save it." She continued. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore and called her a bitch and how she feels so threatened by me. I have witnesses, Susan. The commissioners took note too.
Elaine
Hi Elaine, when you stood up and confronted her (good for you) I was waiting for an all out brawl to start. I must say, Susan Morgans is a real piece of work. I don't understand why we pay her $100K a year plus $12K in health benefits if this is the way she treats taxpayers.
Nick M.
In my 12:20 post I meant to write:
Its mind boggling that "no" previous experience with shooting rifles in densely populated areas...
Nick M.
On page 3 of Benner's 19 page (link below) proposal to the Commissioners, he writes—
"if deer are captured during daylight hours screening will be erected around the corral of captured deer prior to euthanasia."
http://mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/View/10757
So what was everyone thinking regarding setting up corrals in the school gun-free zones?
You think the Markham students curiosity wouldn't get the better of them as they pass the off-limits corral and investigate the deer.
You think someone walking in the school gun-free zone with a gun wouldn't panic some parents that aren't paying attention to corral locations? How would they know if it's a madman or a Benner employee?
PGC has an agenda: http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/backlash-and-blowback/fire-rosenberry-pa-game-commission-pa-deer-management
They got the permit because of car vs deer accidents. However it was said in meetings "damage to gardens and poopoo. Ps game commission told them accidents so with that said Mt Lebo submitted # to trump all laws. DEER travel 5-7 mi radius so aerial views are not accurate. Public domain for statistics on accidents...so ask council. How were they approved. Funny national statistics are always 2yr behind. 2012 was just completed. Whitetail deer mgt, pres Joe mcclusky Jr., currently roam county thinning out herds for free for the state..why is tax payers money being spent when it can b done for free & humanely? Blowing off a deer head that caged is SICK. No Real hunter would consider that idea....ever
How can deer vs motor vehicle accidents be a legitimate reason for a cull without the context of all motor vehicle accidents and also, motor vehicle accidents against pedestrians? Pedestrian accidents are not tracked with the same rigor as accidents that injure the body of a motor vehicle.
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