As of 5:29 PM, the Stop the deer culling petition has 3,213 supporters.
The Trib reports Divisive deer plan sparks protest in Mt. Lebanon
And from the folks at the Post-Gazette, who claim we have THOUSANDS of deer in Mt. Lebanon, comes this fine example of accurate reporting. Mt. Lebanon commission, residents debate deer culling I think I am going to cancel my subscription to the Post-Gazette.
A podcast of last night's commission is available on my website, lebocitizens.com.
Commissioner Fraasch has a call to action on her blog, A Call to Action! Contact the PA Game Commission and State Representatives
Fake KDKA News (@Fake_KDKA)
Deer issue disturbing warning to Mt. Lebanon residents: pic.twitter.com/wuPNHftabK
KDKA-TV/CBS Pittsburgh on Facebook
Killing deer in Mt. Lebanon is a controversial issue. Despite protests from residents and a petition, it appears the plan is moving forward.
Do you support the plan?
So far 232 comments. Most of them are negative comments about the horrible, rich snobs of Mt. Lebanon who don't like deer poop. Thank you, Commissioners.
KDKA-TV/CBS Pittsburgh on Facebook
Killing deer in Mt. Lebanon is a controversial issue. Despite protests from residents and a petition, it appears the plan is moving forward.
Do you support the plan?
So far 232 comments. Most of them are negative comments about the horrible, rich snobs of Mt. Lebanon who don't like deer poop. Thank you, Commissioners.
Trap-and-Euthanize Deer Cull to Begin in Mt. Lebanon On NPR:
The city of Mt. Lebanon did implement a sharp-shooting program in place from 2006-2008, but Linfante said it was discontinued over safety concerns among her fellow commissioners, many of which she believes are imagined.As for what is on the Municipal website as of February 12, 2015 at 12:30 PM: The bogus deer incident report still shows my reported incident of August 20, 2014. I asked for it to be removed during Citizen Comments and acting president Kelly Fraasch said that someone would contact me. No one has. The approved list of killing sites has not been updated. No mention of Twin Hills Park or the Conservation District.
The Almanac February 12, 2015 Mt. Lebanon to expand deer cull despite protests
 |
| The Almanac 021215 |
What a shame to hear about the controversy about lowering the deer population in Mt. Lebanon.
How inhumane and cruel it would be to lure animals into a pen to kill them for an exorbitant fee. The easier solution would be to lure them into that same pen, then into a truck, and move them to an area where the population of deer is not a problem.
Mt. Lebanon's deer culling will be a savage slaughter
February 13, 2015 12:00 AM
Regarding “Mt. Lebanon Deer Culling Debated” (Feb. 11): Years ago, as an Upper St. Clair resident, I opposed the culling of deer by the Pennsylvania Game Commission to no avail. It took place in the woods behind my home, now known as Boyce Mayview Park, where I daily walked my dogs.
It ruined our peaceful walks, encouraged poachers (who killed a rare albino deer and left it to rot!) and didn’t stop gardens from being eaten or cars colliding with deer.
I find it interesting that a Mt. Lebanon resident stated that 37 years ago she didn’t have deer in her backyard (or deer poop, which seems to be her main concern). That’s because the community wasn’t overdeveloped then, as every community with deer problems needs to recognize.
Drivers need to be cautious; I’m sure speeding is a factor in many collisions.
The deer are very intelligent, adapting to having their environment taken from them by suburbanites.
Every resident in favor of Mt. Lebanon’s savage slaughter should have to personally shoot the deer. I wonder how many could watch the fear and panic in those beautiful creatures’ eyes and pull the trigger? Over poop and flowers! Ah ... the human ego.
By the way, I am a master gardener. Fences, repellents and proper plant selection sure beat violence and guns.
LYNNE LUCCHINO
Bethel Park
As of February 14, 2015 at 2:03 AM, the Stop the deer culling! petition has 3,604 supporters.
The Post-Gazette editorial board has taken a stand. February 14, 2015 12:00 AM Deer kill: Mt. Lebanon leaders should cancel the slaughter
Since the game commission must decide whether to approve this plan, there’s hope it will tell Mt. Lebanon game over, do something else. We say live and let live, and learn to plant flowers and shrubs that the deer will ignore.
Mike Pintek:February 5, 2015 - HOUR 3)
KDKA Radio
Dr Jeffrey Pope - Veterinarian and Owner of Pittsburgh East Animal Hospital joined Mike to discuss Mt. Lebanon's deer culling plan. Dr Pope explained how trapping deer in a cage is cruel because they will injure and even kill themselves trying to get out.
New clearing discovered in Twin Hills Park:
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The new clearing leads to this parking lot of an apartment complex. Can anyone figure out which street this is?
This truck was sitting in the circle of Williamsburg Park for 45 minutes last week scouting out possible locations for corrals.
Contact the PA Game Commission.
- Chris Rosenberry (biologist): 717 433 4062.
- Robert Schlemmer (Commissioner for Allegheny County): 724 327 1649.
The Mt. Lebanon plan to kill deer is pathetic
February 16, 2015 12:00 AM
Thank you for your Feb. 14 editorial regarding the local so-called “deer kill” (“Deer Kill: Mt. Lebanon Leaders Should Cancel the Slaughter”).
This, in my mind, is a pathetic response to a problem posed in our so-called “advanced civilization.”
My house is on a regular deer route, and my plants disappear, but I would rather see the deer fed and happy posing in my yard than dead in the middle of the night in some council person’s trap.
Let’s try an option that matches our so-called “advanced understanding” of things here in Mt. Lebanon.
JEANNE DIANA
Mt. Lebanon
Contact the PA Game Commission.
- Robert Schlemmer (Commissioner for Allegheny County): 724 327 1649.
The Mt. Lebanon plan to kill deer is pathetic
115 comments:
Awesome job on the interview, Elaine.
Elaine, I think you need to revise the title of this blog entry to include "Deer"... since ya know, this isn't the commission's first or last dirty deed.
https://uk.celebrity.yahoo.com/video/opponents-voicing-concerns-over-plan-000200730.html
The CBS 6 pm story
It is a full house tonight at the Commission Meeting.
I asked Steve Feller how many deer we have. He has no idea.
For the first time, the commission is permitting nonresidents to speak at the end of meeting.
The commission has added Twin Hills, to appease the residents who have complained about the deer. Think Ward 1 Commissionettes. They have also added the conservation district along Connor Road. Merlin the Magnificent wants to use private property such as Golden Living on Gilkeson Rd, the Covenant on Bower Hill Rd., 460 Castle Shannon Blvd. near the post office. The commission was also asked about Williamsburg Park. Dave is OK with the wooded area in Williamsburg. This is the guy who didn't want guns in Mt. Lebanon, and now he is OK with the wooded area in his park.
Elaine
These commissioners would not permit dogs on leashes in Williamsburg park but they are OK with luring deer there with poison (yes, corn is poison to deer in late winter -- just read), corral them and then shoot them in the head.
People are upset about deer feces.
Elaine
Kelly gave Bendel, Silverman, and Brumfield one lastq opportunity to change their minds after hearing all the residents comments and prior to nonresidents speak. They all stuck to their guns or Benner's guns I should say.
This commission is so...so...I can't even find the right word to describe them. Good night. It's been a long day for me.
Elaine
I can't sleep.
I do want to share a funny story. Mr. Susan Morgans was having a field day taking photos of the protesters. He took a gazillion of me. Inside, I asked him who he was. He said, "WHO ARE YOU?" I mentioned that he had taken a lot of pictures of me. Mr. Susan Morgans came back with, "I took a lot of pictures of everyone." I asked him if he was Art Stroyd. He got so mad, spun around and started muttering something about Art Stroyd. It was hilarious.
Just put up articles from the Trib and the PG. I couldn't help but notice when I was talking with the PG reporter, Ms. Michalina was breathing down my back, just itching to talk with this guy. Her little group then formed behind me, to the point that I said to the guy something like "You should probably talk to them. They want ALL the deer dead. They can't wait to talk to you." And I walked away.
Some of the anti kill comments made me cry. Bendel wouldn't let people ask questions tonight. It is the time for comments, not questions. It is official. Bendel is as big of a jerk as Brumfield and Linfante. The junior commissioner got to see her dad in action tonight. I would not be proud of the commission's chosen path.
Speaking of junior commissioners, the first comment tonight was a barn burner. It appears that a certain individual sitting up at the dais told a junior commissioner to rewrite her paper on PAYT and to skew it unfavorably. Message was received on the dais. I doubt the camera was on him at the time this was read.
Elaine
From the PG: “It was about an equal number of pro and con speakers,” said Michalina Pendzich…" When I read that, I assumed the reporter wasn't actually there but had been reported to by Ms. Pendzich. How could he have been there and report that? Yet apparently he was… Is the speaker list going to be available eventually so we can tally who was for and who was against because I know what I saw and it wasn't equal.
The speaker list is available in the minutes, which won't be posted until after the next meeting. The video of the meeting, which is intentionally not live stream, will be posted on the muni website today or by the end of the week usually.
RR, yes, the PG reporter was there for part of the meeting and wanted my phone number so that I give him my thoughts about the meeting. I said no. I had my phone number on the freaking press release. He asked me to call him after the meeting so that I could give him feedback. I'm sure he had the same conversation with Ms. Pendzich, you know, the one standing right on top of me when I was talking to the reporter.
As far as a speaker list, RR, that will appear in the next approved minutes. But I have to warn you. I could say that I am opposed to something and it will say, Elaine Gillen spoke about ____. What I suggest is to watch the video when it is uploaded on the municipal website later this afternoon and make your own tally. A friend of mine recorded the meeting, so I may have it available sooner. It definitely wasn't even, RR.
Elaine
Who was the pool bid rigging attorney? Could he look into the irregularities here with bids and conflict of interest on behalf of Lebo Citizens, with crowd funding?
If the Game Commission approves this permit, they should be disbanded and investigated thoroughly.
There are many reasons why but of note, they have documented the risks of baiting and feeding deer. It has been proven that deer feeding sites increase the risk of spreading infectious disease.
The deer that feed at Mt Lebanon's feeding sites will not all be killed. They may catch or spread a disease at these sites and then our animals, children, families will be put at risk due to Mt Lebanon's cruel plan. In addition, some deer may fall ill just from feeding at the site and die in other locations throughout the South Hills. Those carcasses will be another disease source.
Why all the corrals near senior citizen homes?
Doesn't Brumfeld know that the corral on Castle Shannon will be visible to all the commuters on the T?
This KDKA news piece is pretty good. Click on the video report half way down the page.
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/02/10/opponents-to-mt-lebanon-deer-culling-plan-present-petition-to-commissioners/
RR, I just uploaded a podcast of last night's commission meeting. The link to my website is listed on this thread.
Elaine
Unfortunately, I found I cannot access the podcasts on lebocitizens when I use Chrome. It does work with Safari. :(
Elaine
I was shocked to learn last night (though at this point I shouldn't be) that this is really all about feces.
Both before the meeting and during, it became clear that the car accident crisis is an intentional lie, and that this effort was initiated and emboldened by a few citizens who don't like deer feces.
... Unless the deer feces can cause car accidents if a BMW hits it at the wrong angle, WE HAVE BEEN LIED TO AGAIN!
- Jason M.
Hi Jason, you're correct, it's quite obvious it's all about deer in the yards. It's like mice, if you don't want them in your house you take preventive measures to not attract them and if you do attract them for some reason you don't petition the Commission to have all the other residents pay for your mouse removal. It's called personal responsibility. I'm still confused that if a private citizen wants a corral on his/her property to shoot deer in that I have to pay for that.
Nick M.
The Trib article states that potential cull locations include the private properties of willing volunteers. So, $75k is essentially transferred from my pocket directly to the Commissionettes. If and when this happens, bona fide, indisputable public corruption will have occurred within the MTL Commission. Contact FBI Pittsburgh Office Special Agent Scott S. Smith at (412) 432-4000 to report public corruption within Mt. Lebanon.
-JH
12:26 The FBI isn't going to help in that regard... you need a little more for them to chew on... why don't you compile a long list of all the wrong doings and then submit it?
My spouse consoled me that Al Capone was convicted on tax evasion... so there is hope but you need to do your homework.
Welcome to Mt Lebanon, Kids:
We have indoor recess watching videos. No talking please.
We have polluted streams.
We have fake grass.
We have busy streets where play is not welcomed.
We have slaughterhouses in our parks.
What else do you need to love living here?
Just wait until you meet the Commissioners and Superintendent.
Elaine, a friend and I also had an encounter with a Morgans family photographer at last night's commission meeting. In our case it was with Ms. Morgans herself.
As she moved from the front of the room to the rear recording pictures of attendees on what appeared to be a personal cellphone (it had a decorative case), she evidently noticed my friend and I staring intently at her (I frankly found her behavior to be odd and chose to continue to watch). She moved her mouth into a smile and, when that didn't elicit a return smile from either of us, rushed to assure us that her motivation for walking very slowly and taking pictures of individuals row by row was to capture the size of the crowd ("it is never this big!").
Last evening was my first time at a commission meeting and, having read the blog for many years and talked with others who have attended, I thought I knew what to expect. I was wrong. The unwillingness and/or inability of Commissioners Bendel and Brumfield to answer citizens' questions with factual information or offer considered responses to concerns was shocking to witness. Been shaking my head all day.
Does anyone know why Mr. Susan Morgans and Ms. Susan Morgans were so busy taking pictures of everyone at the meeting? Susan Morgans walked around the room for at least 20 minutes snapping photos of attendees. Why? If she wanted to document the size of the crowd then she could have taken one photo of the entire room. Why did she take so many shots of individual citizens?
Quote in Post-Gazette
“It was about an equal number of pro and con speakers,” said Michalina Pendzich, 61, a resident of Mt. Lebanon for 16 years and one of the founders of the deer management group.
Dan Majors (PG reporter) certainly took what he was spoon fed. Wasn't he there? How could he write that and maintain any credibility?
"Deer poop is just recycled grass", Dr. John, Small animal veterinarian.
Yes, the truth came out last night. This has nothing to do with car-deer collisions. The people pushing for the deer slaughter just don't like seeing a deer in their yard, or because the deer eat their tulips. The Commissioners knew all along that Lintante's car-deer collision campaign was just a ruse, and that the Commissionettes were pulling the strings. As far as I'm concerned, they're just as guilty as Linfante.
And now this move by Benner to trap and shoot high powered rifles on private property is more proof of the real reason why this deer killing program was launched. The elite's want the deer killed in their yards. Gee, I wonder how Benner stumbled on to those properties?
So now Benner will be shooting high powered rifles with no safety zones in residents yards. I'm sure the neighbors will be thrilled.
Hey Brumfield, I thought you promised your constituents that you would never bring rifle shooters into Mt. Lebanon again. Even Bendel originally acted aghast at the thought.
How gullible does this Commission think the residents are in Mt. Lebanon?
THE PRO-KILL COMMISSIONERS NEED TO BE REPLACED!!!! DON'T FORGET THAT WHEN YOU CAST YOUR VOTE!!!!
Here is what the photos were about... but first I'll tell you why I think this:
Did you notice Bendel stated everyone had to be courteous during citizens comments because participants should not "discourage free speech" or "intimidate"?
Uh-huh. Right, Bendel.
The truth is that the PHOTOGRAPHS were INTENDED to DISCOURAGE FREE SPEECH and INTIMIDATE.
Have fun with your photos, Morgans! They are just going to take up space in your iCloud account and then you'll need to PAY for more space. Do we need to pay your iCloud bill, too?
I added a link to Commissioner Kelly Fraasch's blog. She asking for our help.
Elaine
1:08 PM, that personal cell phone of Susan Morgans is paid by you and me. Why is she having hubby taking photos of me talking to the police chief with Susan's phone? Hubby Morgans had a meltdown when I called him by Hubby #1's name.
1:12 PM, I am sure the photos were going in each of our personal files.
Elaine
I'm just wondering how long it'll be before the MTL society page elistist garden-clubbers decide that stop-the-cull people are a big nuisance too and decide to start exterminating them.
Perhaps that is what the individual photos were for!
After listening to the all speakers last night,, i was very very clear. that the wealthy in Mt Lebanon esp the ones in the Markham Neighborhood have the right connections to get there needs taken care of.. I was a little shocked but not surprised to see Mrs. Hooton, a nursery school music teacher who sings folk songs with her brother at the Library the day after Thanksgiving...But of course she lives in a HUGE pristine house on Jefferson.. All these pro deer worry about is the frickin gardens and their appearance.
Someone that reads this blog might know how to do this:
Set up a form email that will be sent to all of the PA state reps/senators. It can be customized if desired by the person sending the email.
I have signed these sorts of emails on behalf of state and national organizations that I belong to but I don't know how to create them. Some smart person that reads this blog must know how to do it though... if so, it would be a kind gesture to create one because I think the whole state should be informed of what Mt Lebanon is attempting to do. This violent, poison, corral and then point-blank killing of wild animals for profit in public parks is wrong on so many levels and from so many different vantage points that I think it should be discussed in every community.
Saw cameras being installed on our daily walk with the dogs today. When does the cull start? Will they close down the walking trails?
4:42, I'd be concerned about stray bullets while out walking your dog. Our lovely Commissioners are refusing to abide by the contract and request previous client experience or references with this deer slaughter bonanza. In other words, we have no idea what Mr. Benner's work habits are like. I guess all outside activities are at your own risk, maybe inside too.
Nick M.
"This is an important notice from LeboALERT.
Tonight's Community Relations Board meeting is cancelled. The next meeting is
Wednesday, March 11, at 6 p.m. in the Municipal Building, Room C."
Taking all those photos last night must have tired out the staff liaison.
Elaine
Of course, Mt Lebanon School District wants to make sure we are all safe with our guns so now they are offering two adult education classes entitled:
"NRA HOME FIREARMS SAFETY"
http://www.mtlsd.org/district/stuff/adult%20education%20winter%202015.pdf
I guess this is so we are safe from the deer, right?
PETA is reinvigorating their call for Mt Lebanon to ditch animal cruelty.
http://www.peta.org/action/action-alerts/update-urge-mt-lebanon-officials-to-ditch-cruelty-to-deer/
Is deer management due to motor-vehicle collision incidents in the most recent or any 20th-21st century copy of Mt Lebanon's Comprehensive Plan?
The comments on that KDKA Facebook post are incredible. People don't hold Mt. Lebanon in very high regard right now. I'm also quite amused by multiple people using the word "yuppies" to describe Mt. Lebanon residents.
Bottom line from the PA Game Commission.
"• All deer management programs require long-term management"
HERE IN THE BUBBLE THE COMMISSIONERS' ANSWER TO THE DEER IS AN EXPENSIVE ONE TIME SHOT THAT PROBABLY WON'T SOLVE ANYTHING FOR VERY LONG.
WHAT WE NEED IS LONG TERM PLAN THAT INCLUDES EDUCATION, TRAFFIC CONTROL/WARNINGS, WISE LANDSCAPING, STERILIZATIONS AND CULLING OVER THE LONG TERM.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/document/1310314/facts_about_deer_and_deer_management_in_developed_areas_pdf
Did anyone hear Marty Griffin yesterday? I received a call from one of his listeners who said that Marty's wife called Marty at work and let him hear the gunshots that were going off. I think she was in the car when she called him. He said that he guessed that Mt. Lebanon residents are taking matters into their own hands.
Can this be confirmed?
Elaine
How many deer are to be culled? What is the duration of the cull? Lets face it the cull is happening. In 2016 people have a chance to elect new commissioners. I doubt it as this area is so up democrat's butts. Maybe more will attend the meetings. Again doubt it but strange things have be known to happen. But neighbors attacking neighbors does little. My neighbor wants to have a garden they should be able to. But do they have the right to force another neighbor to chainsaw all their fruit trees? Those peach, pear and apple trees bring the deer. Sometimes 12-18 at a time. Another neighbor has a little fish pond that provides the deer water. Should they be forced to fill it in? Where does it all stop? When does it stop? Guess maybe my 12 year-old was right when he asked why doesn't this "stuff" get voted on. Then people feel they have a say in things.
Could someone post the complete list of the parks where this culling will take place? I can't find this info on the municipal website. Thanks
The four the commissioners had already approved:
Bird Park
Golf Course
McNeilly Park
Robb Hollow Park
On Tuesday, the commission added Twin Hills Park (located in Scott Twp.) and the conservation district on Connor Road.
Merlin had asked about Williamsburg Park, but the commissioners want more information.
Private properties that they may consider include:
1300 Bower Hill Road Concordia Independent Living
466 Castle Shannon Blvd. (across the street from the Baptist Home)
350 Old Gilkeson Road Golden Living Center (Assisted Living)
Elaine
It appears that everyone is getting the same response from the PA Game Commission.
Elaine
"Good afternoon,
There is no simple solution to overabundant deer populations in developed areas. On the Game Commission’s deer page, there is a section titled Living with Whitetails that includes many resources for urban/suburban deer management. I suggest you take a look at Guide to Community Deer Management as well as a companion VIDEO: Community Deer Management. The Guide lists removal and non-removal options for communities and individuals.
Suburban deer management is very complex and is a major concern for the Game Commission. The first step in community deer management is understanding the problem and drafting a community deer management plan. Every community is different so one approach will not work for all. The management actions a community agrees upon to address their deer issues may involve a number of approaches including feed ban ordinances, managed hunts, and special permits for deer removals. Mt. Lebanon applied for a Deer Control Permit as part of their management actions. If community members submit an application which meets the eligibility requirements under 58 PA Code 147.321, a Political Subdivision Deer Control Permit may be granted as a way for the community to reach its management goals. At this time, Mt. Lebanon’s permit is still pending.
lnm@pgc"
The funny thing on the Markham mommies...how many were thinking about the fact that the kids from the Mayfair/Vernon neighborhoods tend to cut through Bird Park to get to school. Wonder if they will be lucky enough to see the corrals with bloody, dead dear.
When we lived there (former Lebo resident who has been following this from afar...thanks to some Lebo friends who gave us a heads up), we had deer all the time. We thought it was really cool. I would make sure I came down the driveway in my car slowly because they used to sit on my lawn in the evenings. The "mom" would stand up just to make sure I didn't come towards her "kids". It was a peaceful coexistence that we thought was incredibly cool. But we would hear the mean mommies (oh and Markham is loaded with them) complain all the time.
And Markham did have a strong gun culture when we lived there. One of the fifth grade teachers used to have all the kids discuss where their "cabins" where and what guns they were going to use. When asked, my son said "my family doesn't believe in guns". So the teacher sent him to the Principal for being disrespectful. My son told me and I complained. The result was the teacher would send my son to the hallway for ALL gun discussions (including when the material in social studies was about wars).
I feel really, really sad for Mt. Lebanon. You've got some folks that live in the past and think it is still in its glory days. But the world moved on while Mt. Lebanon has stood still.
I know there are a tremendous number of great people in Mt. Lebanon who fly under the radar. (The only way to survive there in my opinion.) I can only hope that you raise your voices and are heard...through electing thoughtful commissioners who do what is best for the township as a whole and not just what is right for them and their kids.
Godspeed.
I don't live in Mt. Lebanon, or I would think about trying to file this on my own behalf, but what about filing a complaint with the court of common pleas to stop the deer cull because at the meeting on Tuesday it was stated -- very clearly -- that the reason for doing it was because of residents' complaints about deer poop in their yards. The municipality is only permitted to act pursuant to the First Class Township Code and its own home rule charter for the health, safety and welfare of its residents. I'm not certain, but I don't think there is a valid health, safety or welfare concern with "deer poop in my yard" to justify the time and tax dollars going to the deer cull. The Municipality has gone beyond the scope of their powers in the pursuit of appeasing a select few, which is not permitted.
Thanks 5:54 pm. I agree that Mt Lebanon has stood still while the world has changed. I've already taken one of my children out of the schools and transferred the child elsewhere. I plan to take the others out at the end of the year.
I think this plan is cruel and reflects the leadership of both the schools and the municipality. If this doesn't involve schools, then where are they on this issue? Do they have a permanent mute button on when it comes to the welfare of the community in which they teach? I don't want my children to grow up to be cruel sheeple.
Children are asked to leave the classroom *all* the time in Mt Lebanon. The gist is this: "if you don't like it, then leave". But the real deal is this teachers: you are supposed to teach everyone. This is their education for which you are paid to provide. Your teaching should be appropriate and inclusive.
The PA Game Commission has posted Lyme Disease & Deer Revelation or Red Herring
At least we can put the tick issue to rest. Doesn't Kristen Linfante research anything?
Elaine
Heres another one Elaine.
http://wildlifecontrol.info/pubs/Documents/Deer/DeerGuide.pdf
See last bullet on page 10-
"An understanding that community/based deer management is an on-going process,
not a one-time event"
The commissioners never (ever) start stuff with trust and open conversations.
Completely opposite of the above guides suggestions.
One more.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/deer/11949
Lots and lots of reading!!!
Email Pa Game Commission Contacts
IMO, sending emails to the PGC's catch all comments email address will likely have little impact. I looked up Matt Hough, the Executive Director's, email, but just discovered that he is out of office on medical leave until March. His email inbox is filled, and getting bounce backs.
I believe the two Deputy Directors are filling in for Matt Hough, and that John Dunn and Chad Eyler are also appropriate contacts.
Other PGC Executive Contacts:
bburhans@pa.gov Bryan Burhans, Deputy Director of Administration
rpalmer@pa.gov Rich Palmer, Deputy Director of Field Operation
johdunn@pa.gov John Dunn, Acting Director, Bureau of Wildlife Management (oversees their 12 wildlife biologists)
ceyler@pa.gov Chad Eyler, Chief of Special Permits Enforcement Division
I found Rich Palmer and John Dunn's email addresses and know they're good. I guessed at Burhans and Eylers. I sent sample emails and they didn't bounce back. The PGC typically uses first name initial and last name, and first name initial, middle initial, and last name. So I'm fairly confident that since Burhans and Eylers emails didn't bounce back, that they are likely good.
I'd recommend emailing the two PGC Deputy Directors, and CC: Dunn and Eyler - see below
TO: bburhans@pa.gov ; rpalmer@pa.gov ;
CC: johdunn@pa.gov ; ceyler@pa.gov
Subject: Reject Mt. Lebanon's special permit application request for a corral and shoot deer killing program
EXPAND ON CONTENT OR KEEP IT SHORT
Please reject this experimental, dangerous, and inhumane, corral and shoot deer killing program special permit, and approve the special permit for sterilization submitted, or one for contraception.
I will post the email I sent. Please feel free to use my email, or edit and customize it any way you like. Shorter might be better.
SAMPLE EMAIL TO PGC Part 1
TO: bburhans@pa.gov ; rpalmer@pa.gov ;
CC: johdunn@pa.gov ; ceyler@pa.
Subject: Reject Mt. Lebanon's special permit application request for a corral and shoot deer killing program
Dear Deputy Directors Burhans and Palmer,
We understand that Matt Hough, the Executive Director, is on medical leave, and so we are reaching out for your assistance. Mt. Lebanon has submitted a special permit application request for an experimental corral and shoot deer killing program. We're requesting that this request be denied because it's experimental, it's a safety threat to all Mt. Lebanon families, and it's inhumane. Please review our following concerns:
* This corral and shoot deer killing method has never been used in Pa before. It's experimental.
* Wildlife Specialists LLC has no experience implementing this corral and shoot deer killing method.
* All safety zones regulations will be suspended by this special permit putting Mt. Lebanon familiers at greater risk.
* The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) stated that this trap and kill method is inhumane, "This plan is inhumane. When the corral gate shuts, the deer will panic and slam into the fencing. The result will be broken legs and necks. If the city goes ahead with this misguided plan, we highly encourage residents to demand that an objective observer or the press be allowed to see this spectacle." (Laura Simon, wildlife ecologist, HSUS)
* Professional sharpshooter Tony DeNicola (White Buffalo) attempted and abandoned this method stating it was inefficient and resulted in deer with broken necks and legs writhing on the ground.
* Residents are being told that the trapped deer are going to be shot at point blank close range with rifles. How are they going to get brain shots at close range with panicked deer bouncing off the walls of the corral's fencing? They will be forced to take body shots to bring the deer down, and then keep trying to get a brain shot. We're concerned that this is going to turn into a shootfest, which will not only be inhumane, but dangerous to all Mt. Lebanon families.
* Wildlife Specialists LLC stated that they would be placing plastic bags over the deer's heads "to minimize blood onsite". However, this procedure has been highly criticized by humane experts and veterinarians, because it's often used to suffocate the deer that are not dead when approached. Wildlife Specialists LLC should state their procedure for killing deer humanely as possible if not dead when approached. Smothering deer with a plastic bag over their heads is inhumane and not acceptable.
* Residents are being told that this corral trapping and shooting will take place day and night using three corrals at the same time in public parks, the golf course, and on some private properties.
- We question that shooters can get to trapped deer in a timely manner to kill them, exposing them to extreme stress and suffering if they injure themselves trying to escape.
- We worry that kids cutting through and playing in the parks, and residents using and walking their dogs in the parks, will be at heightened safety risk during the day, and exposed to emotional trauma from seeing deer killed.
* As we understand, the rifle typically used in these deer killing programs is the .223 caliber bolt-action rifle with 55-grain bullets. The maximum range of this ammunition is 2.20 miles. A missed, ricochet, or misfired shot poses serious safety risks to all Mt. Lebanon families, children, and pets. Vendors typically use frangible bullets to help reduce ricochet, but it doesn't eliminate it. Plus, any missed shots or misfires are just as lethal. There are NO safe places to shoot high-powered rifles in Mt. Lebanon.
SAMPLE EMAIL TO PGC Part 2
If the PGC approves this experimental, dangerous, and inhumane, corral and shoot deer killing program, it has the potential to turn into a major public relations disaster. Everyone is watching - the residents, The Humane Society of the United States, and local humane agents.
Mt. Lebanon is a perfect example of a suburban community that is too densely populated and developed for bow hunting, or a bait and shoot rifle killing program. The safety risks to residents are just too high and unacceptable. This is an opportunity for the PGC to approve a deer sterilization or contraception solution, and w/o the ridiculous requirement that Mt. Lebanon has to approve and allow hunting first, when it's not safe to hunt in Mt. Lebanon, and why it's requesting a safe alternative solution.
Mt. Lebanon has submitted a special permit application for sterilization, please approve this request.
Successful sterilization projects have been carried out in other areas including Milwaukee WI, Highland Park IL, The Villages of San Jose CA, and are in process in Monkton, MD, Bethesda MD, and Fairfax City VA. "The good news with sterilization is that it does appear to be working. We are still assessing immigration rates, but are seeing declines of up to 30% in the communities where it is taking place." Tony DeNicola, Ph.D., White Buffalo.
PZP Immunocontraception and GonaCon work. "Suburban deer populations have been stabilized and reduced over time by 35-50%. The most dramatic reduction so far has been with the use of the one-treatment PZP vaccine, which has been associated with a population reduction of 44% in five years." Dr. Allen Rutberg, Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy. These PZP studies are peer reviewed studies that have been published in scientific journals.
Included below are links to KDKA TV news coverage of the resident protest against this corral killing program on 2/10/15, and in which a petition of over 3,200 supporters was presented to the Commission. In addition, we included 2 letters published in the Pgh. Post-Gazette and The Almanac newspapers opposed to this deer killing program by The Humane Society of the United States.
Please reject this experimental, dangerous, and inhumane, corral and shoot deer killing special permit, and approve the special permit for sterilization submitted, or one for contraception.
Thank You for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
Encl:
KDKA TV coverage
Opponents To Mt. Lebanon Deer Culling Plan Present Petition To Commissioners
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/02/10/opponents-to-mt-lebanon-deer-culling-plan-present-petition-to-commissioners/
The Almanac, Killing deer won’t resolve Mt. Lebanon’s issues
http://www.thealmanac.net/article/20150129/OPINION02/150129946
Post-Gazette, Shooting deer won’t solve the problem
http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/letters/2015/01/23/Shooting-deer-won-t-solve-the-problem/stories/201501230010
Elaine,
Just to clear up your statement, you are referring to the fact that the relationship between lyme disease and Deer does not exist. Lyme disease is related to the existence of mice and not to deer.
In effect, to control lyme disease you would institute a rodent control program, not a deer management program.
Kristen does research things. But she only reads enough to have the research agree with her own position.
I did email both Dan and Matt last night. I hope they will call the PA Game Commission to "find out the status of the permit" in the same way they called about the turf permit.
Fair is fair, right Dave?
From Dan Major's Post-Gazette article.
“It was about an equal number of pro and con speakers,” said Michalina Pendzich, 61, a resident of Mt. Lebanon for 16 years and one of the founders of the deer management group.
For the record:
There was a total of 21 people who spoke AGAINST the killing program, and a total of 9 people that spoke supporting it. Hardly an equal number of pro and con speakers.
Good reporting Dan!
The Solution
Annie of Englewood Dr. (I think the 12th speaker) was extremely upset with the deer poop (recycled grass) in her yard, but was at the point of near hysteria when she claims that she saw a FLY on the deer poop. (I'm not making this up.) I guess she was going to call 911, or the fire department on that poor FLY.
So maybe the compromise solution would be for the municipality to hire a sharpshooter to stake out the back yard of Annie's home, and from an elevated platform, cull that friggin FLY. Annie happy! We're happy! The deer happy! Everyone happy! Well, except for the poor FLY.
Alternatively, we could sterilize and/or relocate the FLY.
9:27 am - Could you please send your comment to the Post Gazette? Here is an unbiased writer who has already been contacted about their faulty coverage:
cpotter@postgazette.com
He's not the aggressive type so you don't have to worry about retribution like you would if he were Steve Feller.
Shout out to Steve Feller: Thanks for making sure the municipal sidewalks on my street are not shoveled for the second year in a row. They are plenty icy now.
I want to clarify something. People are asking me about buffer zones. All buffer zone requirements are waived during a municipal cull. That is how Mt. Lebanon was able to shoot right next to my house in 2006 and 2007.
Elaine
Maybe the Game Commission needs some help... if they are permitting the shooting of wild animals without buffer zones they are creating danger in our communities. Likewise, they need to have credible and legitimate reason for shooting the deer.
I am not finding the deer story to be credible. Some residents in certain neighborhoods want to keep deer out of their yards but they refuse to put up deer fencing or plant deer resistant shrubs. I don't see how they can possibly justify culling America's wildlife that they see as a "pest" when they aren't taking some responsibility.
I have three fences: invisible fence, backyard fence, and garden fences. My neighbors and I do not have deer lingering around here and we have 25 acres of open space a few feet from our yards. We rarely see the deer in the open space either. Push the deer out and they will adapt. We don't need to kill them. Drive like kids live here and you won't hit a deer either. Is this a walking community or not? Last chance to rescind that label Mt Lebanon.
Quick question:
So let's say that deer are contained within a corral and a child approaches the corral. This is possible because a) we don't know where the corrals are going to be placed and b) the parks aren't going to be closed. So the deer manages to bite the child.
Is Mt Lebanon liable for this? They are creating little zoos without a zookeeper. The zookeeper is not onsite. These corrals in public parks have never been tested before.
The child will have to go through the trauma of anti-rabies shots because there is a risk of rabies when bitten by a wild animal.
Pennsylvania... wow.
Phone directory of the PA Game Commission
Elaine
4:36, on top of that we don't even know what the corrals will be constructed of. On Tuesday night I asked the Commissioners what livestock panels are because that is what was written the in the contract. Needless to say not one of them knew the answer. What was more disturbing is that Dave Brumfield didn't even know what the actual size of the corrals would be during the discussion session when it's pictured with the measurements in the contract on its own page. Many of the other folks who spoke that evening knew the exact measurements but somehow Dave Brumfield did not. It leads me to wonder if he even read the contract.
Nick M.
They don't read a lot of things, Nick.
Also, I am wondering if they are spreading deer attractant in the woods. Did anyone have their pet go crazy in the parks today? For corral bait sites, I am wondering if they will go for areas where the deer bed at night. Water sources are desirable too. I have no idea where this is since I never see deer but live by a corral park.
A Lebo Citizens reader sent this to me:
There is an event scheduled on March 21, 2015 in Twin Hills Park. Venture Outdoors may want reconsider.
Twin Hills Gumbo Walk
Twin Hills Trails
Elaine
Received a response from Richard R. Palmer, Deputy Executive Director for Field Operations Pennsylvania Game Commission - see below.
It looks like Mt. Lebo already got or will get their corral and shoot special permit approved. No surprise there, i.e. the PGC is just a rubber stamp for any deer killing program.
I think we will have to go above the Exec. Directors to the Board of Commissioners to get sterilization or contraception approved. They meet like once a quarter. I can post their email addresses later.
Palmer, Richard Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 9:50 AM
To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; "Burhans, Bryan"
Cc: "Dunn, John" , "Eyler, Chad"
This communication is to confirm receipt and review of your correspondence. There is a great deal of misinformation and inaccuracies represented in the statements/concerns listed. Mt. Lebanon has met all eligibility requirements for the deer control political subdivision permits required by law and regulation, and the PGC has placed numerous conditions on the permit to address the concerns expressed in your communication.
Richard R. Palmer
Deputy Executive Director for Field Operations
Pennsylvania Game Commission
The PG letter is really good, but some of the comments underneath are mind-blowingly ignorant. All the talk about the dangers of "sterilized deer meat" containing "drugs" that could hurt "pregnant women". Please someone get it into these noodles' heads that sterilization and contraception are two different things…Take a little trip back to 9th grade biology, guys.
Can someone translate 8:12's comment... ?
They've met the eligibility requirements for the permit... and they have placed conditions on the permit to address the concerns in your communication?
What are the concerns? What are the limits?
No transparency = no trust = no investment in Mt Lebanon = Mt Lebanon goes downhill quickly
6:52, I know exactly what you mean, they read very little. I'm working on something that I'll be presenting at a future meeting. It's about how they turned $2,000 into $80,000. As one of Elaine's other readers says, it's all about smoke and mirrors.
I'm curious too as to what those numerous conditions are. I wonder if Benner and his minions are second guessing themselves. Maybe the other folks who never responded to the RFP knew something that the "expert" did not.
Boy, this blog sure brings out the best in me.
Nick M.
I am 100% against the cull. That being said...
...the tacky memes, especially the one using a cull supporter does NOTHING for the cause. The facts in this case are plenty enough.
Before anyone brings up the fact that others that have been in opposition of your opinions have used nasty personal attacks like that (What the Kluck comes to mind...) it doesn't matter. Let THEM look bad and use childish attacks. I was very disappointed to see that when I checked in today, especially after all of the great fact finding you have done. If that turns off supporters of your cause, imagine what it does to people on the fence or people you're trying to bring into your fold.
I did not create those memes, 10:42 PM. People are laughing at Mt. Lebanon. We've now become memes. I'm sorry that you were offended.
Elaine
Admittedly, I laughed at the memes but they do remind me of the shaming that is described in this recent NYTimes article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html?_r=0
I am concerned about where society is headed when the state animal is corralled and killed point blank in the parks we visit. We'd be more dignified to pass over the memes but that would be easier when and if the cruel actions taking place in our community have ceased.
At least the editorial board for the Post Gazette took a stand:
http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/editorials/2015/02/14/Deer-kill-Mt-Lebanon-leaders-should-cancel-the-slaughter/stories/201502280018
8:55pm See my letter to the Pa Game Commission Part 1 and Part 2 above at 8:44 am and 8:46 am and the concerns listed in my letter.
I stand by all the concerns listed in my letter.
In Richard R. Palmer's, Deputy Executive Director for Field Operations Pennsylvania Game Commission, response, he stated that, "There is a great deal of misinformation and inaccuracies represented in the statements/concerns listed.".
However, he didn't point one inaccuracy out.
Then he concludes his email by saying, "the PGC has placed numerous conditions on the permit to address the concerns expressed in your communication.", which he previously said were inaccurate concerns.
What conditions can he put on a ricochet, misfired, or missed shot bullet so close to our homes and families?
KDKA's Kym Gable reported that most of the people who spoke, strongly opposed the killing of deer. The Post-Gazette's Don Majors quoted a prokill supporter who said "It was about an equal number of pro and con speakers." The Post-Gazette's John Hayes reported that we have THOUSANDS of deer in Mt. Lebanon. The Post-Gazette's Linda Fuoco, "an animal lover," wrote that we have 400 deer in Mt. Lebanon and that we need to have a deer cull. I asked Steve Feller at the Feb.10, 2015 commission meeting how many deer we currently have in Mt. Lebanon and he had no idea how many deer are in Mt. Lebanon. I am glad to see the Post-Gazette's editorial where they want Mt. Lebanon leaders to cancel the slaughter.
I hope the PG had a little talk with their three reporters.
Elaine
I wish I knew who wrote that PG editorial… Someone actually took the time to research this issue and come to a sane, rational conclusion. I'm stupefied and encouraged. Thank you PG.
RR, I'm sure you saw this link at the bottom of the article. Post-Gazette Opinion pages: Meet the Editorial Board
"Although written by individuals, the editorials carry no bylines because they represent the consensus of the group on key public policy issues, candidates seeking election and major events of the day. The board meets daily to choose the subjects for comment and to discuss the positions the Post-Gazette should take."
Elaine
I know one PG reporter RR that may have influenced this write up. I like how u thanked the paper as a whole in your comment online to the editorial. Due to the sad corruption within MTL, maybe it's better not to name names. If we did, who do u think the PIO would put on her shortlist of people to spoon feed lies?
10:34 AM, I was talking with Don Majors when Laura Lilley handed him her business card. It was kind of weird how that all went down. Almost like they had spoken before.
Elaine
I understand that the Game Commission has green lighted the cull. When I spoke to our commissioner he said it was easily 100 to 1 for the cull. He didn't seem all that happy about it but I got the feeling that with all that has been said prior about safety and such backtracking will leave the community open for lawsuits. You can't claim a safety issue and then back away from it.
JP, regardless of who "he" is, "he" voted for it. "He" was given an opportunity by Commissioner Fraasch to retract his vote. "He" didn't. Nothing like talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Even the PG said that the commission wants to "reduce the deer population in a particularly horrific way." Now what? I'm out of ideas.
Someone has volunteered to keep a watchful eye on Bird Park during non-work hours. Who can watch the other locations? Please email me privately at EGillen476@aol.com if you can help. We need videos and/or photos of this inhumane business deal that our commissioners OKed.
What a shitty Valentine's Day. I had hope.
Elaine
What offended 10:42 PM? A frickin' meme. I'm living in hell.
Elaine
The memes are funny. If you're "offended", maybe you should stay off the Internet. Someone somewhere will hurt your feelings..
Email response to the Pa Game Commission
Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 2:40 PM
To: "Palmer, Richard"
Cc: "Burhans, Bryan" , "Dunn, John" , "Eyler, Chad"
Dear Director Palmer,
Thanks for your response. However, with all due respect, we stand by the content and concerns listed as fully accurate.
These are our families and children that you are threatening with allowing high powered rifle shooting in our parks and neighborhoods. What conditions can you put on a ricochet, misfired, or missed shot so close to our homes and families?
Why can't you allow densely populated and developed communities implement safe and effective non-lethal solutions like sterilization and contraception?
We're not threatening your job security or hunting in the state. It's just not safe to bow hunt or shoot high powered rifles in our community.
We have a right to protect our families and keep our children safe. We have a right to feel safe in our homes. It's only a matter of time before there's another horrific accident, and it will be on your conscience, and people will demand major change at the PGC.
Please see the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's Editorial below just published opposing Mt. Lebanon's deer killing program. In addition, we enclosed three examples of horrific accidents, for your review.
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's Editorial Board
http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/editorials/2015/02/14/Deer-kill-Mt-Lebanon-leaders-should-cancel-the-slaughter/stories/201502280018
Deer kill: Mt. Lebanon leaders should cancel the slaughter
OFFICER'S ERRANT SHOT AT DEER UPSETS RESIDENTS
WPXI video report: "Family says newborn hit by stray hunter's bullet will be blind"
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/aunt-baby-hit-hunters-stray-bullet-he-will-be-blin/nhYr8/
Casey Burns Survived a Stray Bullet While Pregnant
Great response to the Game Commission 5:37 PM. Let's hope that they come to their senses and deny this killing permit.
On a lighter note, I, too, thought that the memes were funny. In this whole mess, if that's what people are upset about they did to rethink their priorities. Some people have no sense of humor.
The survey that was commissioned by the PGC and was cited in the Post Gazette today was a result of the PGC's desire to ensure that *all* citizen interests are considered when deer management issues arise.
*** Here's the background ***
"Effective deer management must consider diverse stakeholder values. From 2006 to 2011, the Pennsylvania (USA) Game Commission implemented citizen advisory committees (CACs) to measure deer–human conflicts and tolerance for deer populations in each wildlife management unit. There was a general lack of public interest in participating in CACs. Key stakeholder groups were often absent and CACs exhibited a strong hunter bias. Although the CAC process seemed to benefit those involved, the scope was limited and likely did not represent the values and attitudes of the entire citizenry within the wildlife management unit. As a result of this CAC experience, the Pennsylvania Game Commission moved to a citizen survey in 2011 to ensure all interests are represented as the future success of deer management depends on greater understanding of the values and attitudes of every stakeholder. © The Wildlife Society, 2012"
**
I've noticed that when voting on an issue isn't an option, many towns commission unbiased professional survey firms to gather public opinion data. Why couldn't Mt Lebanon consider this? They have our email addresses at the very least.
10:45 pm, While in theory I agree with you, in reality, I have concerns with the development and implemention of a fair and accurate survey.
I've seen other pro-kill administrations put out there own developed deer surveys, and they're extremely biased surveys where the questions will elicit the answers that they want to justify the deer slaughter they want. In addition, this administration, Steve Feller, Municipal Manager, Susan Fleming Morgans, PIO, and the majority of the Commissioners have demonstrated time and time again, that they lack integrity, honesty, credibility, and transparency, and can't be trusted. So any survey they developed would be totally biased, just like their Deer Forum was back in June, as is the selective content on their Deer Mgt. page, and as was the conflict of interest hiring of Merlin Benner.
Even if they hired an "objective" third party survey firm like they did an "objective" wildlife consultant, i.e.Wildlife Specialists LLC, these firms quickly learn what results the people who pay them want, and would develop a biased survey to give them what they want.
In addition, most survey firms don't know this topic well, and so don't know how to present accurate information and ask the appropriate questions fairly or accurately.
For example, they're not going to say that the maximum range for a compound bow is 595 yards, and an extreme cam compound bow 931yards, do you think that a 50 yards safety zone is adequate to protect your family?
Or that 22 studies show that bow hunting has a 50% wounding rate, and wounded deer will die a slow or tortuous death from blood loss and infection - do you think this is humane, and would you support this?
(Remember our Chief of police was promoting bow hunting in Mt. Lebo's magazine as safe, humane, and natural.)
Or will seeing arrow struck wounded deer dying in your back yard be emotionally traumatic for your family and children?
Or that studies show that hunting actually increases car-deer collisions - do you have any concerns with allowing hunting in our community to reduce car-deer collisions?
Or that studies show that killing deer actually triggers an increase in deer reproduction and a population surge. Do you think killing deer is a solution?
Or that the maximum range for a .223 rifle with 55 grain bullets (typical rifle and ammo used for suburban deer culls) is 2.2 miles - do you think it's safe for Mt. Lebanon to apply for a special permit that cancels all safety zones for shooting these rifles in our community and neighborhoods?
So a survey is only as good as the information presented and how the questions are asked. So while in theory I agree with you, my concern is in the implementation of a fair survey.
I believe we should have a different type of survey, an aerial survey. Mr. Feller admitted that he has no idea how many deer are here. Go back to 2013 on the blog and see what the prokill people, including Kristen Linfante, had to say about how accurate aerial surveys are. That is when the aerial survey showed 342 deer. When the 2014 results showed a 43% decrease in deer, suddenly Kristen said that aerial surveys can be off by 80%. Kristen was never able to substantiate her claim.
How can we do anything here, if we don't know how many deer we actually have in Mt. Lebanon and the two mile area surrounding Mt. Lebanon's borders. Yes, that is how they did the aerial surveys in 2014 and 2013. The counts included areas two miles outside of Mt. Lebanon borders in all directions. Counting deer using TERC Investigations The count was calculated in 42 square miles. Figures don't lie and liars figure.
Elaine
I would suggest that, while the point made by 6:14am that "most survey firms don't know this topic well, and so don't know how to present accurate information and ask the appropriate questions fairly or accurately" is a fair assessment, the alternative questions he suggests are just as biased in that they suggest the "correct" answer. For example, 6:14am writes, "studies show that killing deer actually triggers an increase in deer reproduction and a population surge. Do you think killing deer is a solution?" prompts the answer, "of course not." This is the problem with all surveys in which one must either select an answer from a given list of responses, or answer "yes or no" to a question.
A much better survey (although certainly not perfect) would endeavor to find out if the residents think there is a deer problem in the first place, if so to what extent, what suggested solutions they would support, and what level of risk they would be willing to accept for themselves and/or their families on those solutions that involve risk. Personally, I think the problem, while real, has been overstated, and that the current proposed solution is damn cruel. I have made my opinion know to the commission - for whatever that is worth (I suspect "nothing"). I have read Tom Moertel's work and Richard Gideon's analysis of the deer accident stats, and I think they are correct. My point is that neither side in this debate looks good when they cherry pick studies - and when it is obvious that they are doing so.
Do residents have the right to use their open space parks free from deer slaughter corrals in their midst? How is this natural resource protected for the benefit of the people?
Luring deer into corrals is not hunting. Thus, the laws that protect hunters from interference do not apply.
To whom do the corrals belong if the deer belong to the people?
May I open a corral door to free the deer since the deer are the people's wildlife?
Children can't fathom reasons for killing deer (especially in Mt Lebanon where they walk to school and 15 pedestrians were hit by cars last year).
http://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/letters/children-can-t-fathom-reasons-for-killing-deer-1.1763010
Another town:
"Cull sets a bad example for children"
http://www.oakbaynews.com/opinion/letters/291104291.html
Does anyone know that the white tailed deer are Pennsylvania's state animal? would be more than happy to help release the animals from the "pens"..
The photos are starting to come in. I posted a new clearing over at Twin Hills Park. Look for easy access to roads or parking lots. I will continue to add photos as they come in. Thanks, Lebo Citizens!
Elaine
A little off topic: the Game Commission is selling a "Deer Food Bundle". Is purchasing this bundle prohibited in Allegheny County? Or can they sell it and then let their friends benefit from being paid to engage in cruel culls?
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/outdoors/2015/02/15/Wildlife-Seedlings-and-nest-boxes-for-habitat-improvement/stories/201502150181
Wouldn't mess with any of the cameras or corrals. The police are very much pro-cull as is the township and do you really want all the legal issues? You could face some hefty fines and even lose your job. Don't make things worse! Any incident they can blame on this blog they will run with. And this is just a way to keep eyes off other larger issues. The call for an outside audit of the School Board finance has the School Board members pissed. The wife of a high school teacher who had planned on running for a seat has decided not to because she fears that an audit is going to happen. The million dollar rifle range is nothing... Image the State takeover of our schools?
I agree 5:25. The commissioners are loving all the attention being diverted to the deer issue. You know they are busy working on their wish list that we can't afford. But I doubt that we'll see an audit without it being dragged through the courts. Democrats will make sure of it. Republicans can't push the issue. Miller and Smith won't lift a finger because both dream of higher positions. The only hope if there is any is if a certain former School Board member opens up and spills the beans. They have come close and bits of what went on behind the scenes have been said. Geez it's been how many years and they haven't come clean on what really happened with Sable.
Elaine, I think the parking lot is on Adams Drive. I don’t know who owns the apartment building. I wonder if they’ve been asked if their lot could be used for the cull. I wonder if they would ask Beth El as well.
Elaine, Who is paying the expenses for this cull? While 75,000 seems like a good sum of money for slaughtering deer, I don't see how Brenner is going to make a profit on this if he has to pay for the pens, the set up, the luring, the costs of manpower needed to shoot the deer at all hours, etc. It is quite a gamble for him and he would lose a large amount of money if the doesn't get a large # of deer. Is the Township paying all of the costs associated with the cull as well as 500 per deer?
That is why Benner is requesting more locations. He knows it's a loser.
I had emailed the commissioners over the weekend asking if the PGC had approved the permit, and still no response from the commission. If the permit had been granted, Linfante would have jumped on my email.
Elaine
Steve Feller's email sent to me this morning at 7:54 AM:
"We do not yet have a permit."
Call the Game Commission, Lebo Citizens. I will be posting the phone numbers shortly.
Elaine
Here are the phone numbers:
- Chris Rosenberry (biologist): 717 433 4062.
- Robert Schlemmer (Commissioner for Allegheny County): 724 327 1649.
Elaine
Maybe the question to Feller is:
"Did you receive a response from the PGC to your request for the most recent permit that includes bait & corral of the deer?" YES/NO
"If yes, did the response include conditions on the permit?" YES/NO
"If yes, please list the conditions?"
"If no, have you followed up with the PGC and when do you expect a response?"
7:52, as a reminder, Mr. Benner has already been paid $12,000 for writing up a report and attending a few meetings. I see this as start-up money.
Nick M.
I just got off the phone with Robert Schlemmer. He was driving his truck at the time, so I let him do 90% of the talking because he couldn't hear me too well.
He said "there is a procedure in place" for Mt Lebanon from the PGC and that they used USDA recommendations for culling in corrals. However, he stated emphatically that he does not agree with Mt Lebanon's "council" and thinks that archery is the way to go. For an example, he stated that Monroeville began using archery 20 years ago and it has worked for everybody.
He said something along the lines of not being sure that Mt Lebanon can meet the permit procedure requirements. I am paraphrasing.
I was glad to hear that he unequivocally was against the corrals.
-Mary Edgerley
Benner doesn't need to make any money from his corral deer killing experiment in Lebo. This is free advertising for him. He is expanding his resume, hedging Lebo on future business.
10:29 AM, why don't YOU ask Steve Feller those questions? Let us know what you find out.
Elaine
Hi,
just looked at blog, for clarification Schlemmer is game commissioner not allegheny county commissioner -
Thank you for everything!
Robert Schlemmer - PGC Commissioner's email is rwspgc@aol.com . He doesn't support the corral shooting method, because he'd rather turn Mt. Lebanon into a bow hunting club, so that his hunter constituents can hunt in our parks and back yards. He has no idea or cares how densely populated and developed Mt. Lebanon is. I think he sent Santucci, Pres of Unified Sportsman PA, to our last meeting.
Richard R. Palmer, Deputy Executive Director for Field Operations, Pennsylvania Game Commission, responded to my email on Friday, Feb. 13, 9:50 am, telling stating that "Mt. Lebanon has met all eligibility requirements for the deer control political subdivision permits required by law and regulation, and the PGC has placed numerous conditions on the permit to address the concerns expressed in your communication."
The permit is a done deal, and I have no doubt that Merlin Benner is moving forward in prep for the slaughter.
My guess is that Feller's response is intentionally misleading. Maybe they don't have the physical permit in hand yet, but I'm sure they've received verbal approval to move ahead.
10:27 am, edit my previous post. So his hunter constituents can kill semi-tame deer in our parks and back yards. This can't be called hunting, and any hunter with any sense of "fair chase" ethics, would find no honor in killing semi-tame deer in a local park or a residents back yard. Most of these deer will walk right up to the "hunter" to be killed.
Does anyone know how MTL will keep track of the dead deer? Will Benner bring a truck of corpses to the municipal building to be counted? Are we to trust his count? How do we, the taxpayers, to know how many deer have been 'wacked' to justify the $500 per deer bounty? How will we know? How will the Commission know?
It's officially approved according to Santoni in the Trib.
I'm sure Elaine will post the article if and when the disgust for these people remits long enough for her to type.
Unbelievable.
I'm assuming you know this but the permit is approved and baiting starts tomorrow. Time for the commissioners to back down before the PR disaster really gets underway. And time for that watchers' network to get organized. Stand up and be counted people, don't let this happen quietly under cover of night. How willing are you to get out there and oppose this? If so, mobilize. Be out there, be watchful, act. http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/7767065-74/deer-lebanon-bait#axzz3S26ijFVV
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