Commissioners did not actually vote on the archery component, Ms. Linfante said.Kristen is on a roll. A major, major roll.
“This is a major, major safety issue we’re dealing with,” Mt. Lebanon Commission President Kristen Linfante said.The PG article continues with:
Since 2011 there have been 765 reported incidents involving the herbivorous menaces in the municipality, ranging from dead and injured deer to deer stuck in fences to deer “tearing up” a yard, according to an online tracker.The "765 reported incidents" is a fictitious number. Deer sightings are being included as "reported incidents." For some unknown reason, I am included as one of those residents who reported an incident. That is a goddam lie. I NEVER REPORTED ANY INCIDENT! How do I get that removed?
Kristen continues on Facebook.
Where the hell did 600 deer in Mt. Lebanon come from, Kristen? If deer are such a "major, major safety issue" in Mt. Lebanon, and there are "765 reported incidents," shouldn't you be reporting a negative number of deer? When filing Right To Knows, Lebo Citizens, please keep in mind that social media communication is to be included. That is why I ask for ALL communication, but Mr. Feller never includes that. Seriously, why do we have mtl Magazine on Facebook?
Kristen continues with the PG reporter by throwing Kelly Fraasch under the bus with another lie.
“On one hand I really hold some of my colleagues responsible who were resistant to coming up with any kind of deer plan at all,” Ms. Linfante said. “At least one of my colleagues is very happy that this thing fell through. I find that unfortunate.”
That colleague would be Ms. Fraasch, who favors a sterlization [sic] approach and said she had proposed a plan in 2012.
“I’ve obviously had concerns about doing anything lethal in Mt. Lebanon because of the density of the population, so I thought this was actually a bit of a relief,” Ms. Fraasch said. “I think it’s good for Mt. Lebanon to take a moment and make sure this is the right way to go with dealing with our deer-management issue.”From Kelly Fraasch's December 7, 2012 blog posting, Deer in Mt. Lebanon, Kelly met with over 30 people (some pro-cull, some anti-cull, and some in-between) trying to find mid ground. This year, Kelly has been working with six communities to institute a regional deer management plan to include sterilization. Kristen is well aware of that.
Many residents have concerns about doing anything lethal in Mt. Lebanon, especially on the golf course and in passive parks adjacent to elementary schools. The golf course was to remain open for business during the archery program, in hopes to collect additional revenue. In addition, the golf course attracts many families, who enjoy sled riding there, when there is snow on the ground.
What about our Public Information Officer?
Ms. Morgans said she “knew nothing about it.” She added that she learned Friday afternoon from the municipal manager about the lack of licenses. It is not clear why it took a week after the news release announcing the hunt for the municipality to learn that no licenses were available.And the question we have all been asking, "Wouldn't the municipal staff who volunteered be licensed archers already?"
Some Mt. Lebanon employees who planned to volunteer for the bow hunt might already have licenses.
But, Chief McDonough said, “just because of the very small number of deer tags available we decided it wasn’t worth taking four or five.”
36 comments:
I don't believe there's a license to be an archer. You get a licence to hunt and are limited to tags. Some people play the system and line up tags for their wife, kids, aunt, etc but I would suspect the Twp doesn't want to get into that game.
The plan itself was not very well thought out. Anyone who has lived in Western PA knows that deer hunting for some is an obsession and the change they would be able to get tags this late in the year was hopefully folly.
I still can't figure out why the Twp thinks the cull is going to solve the issue. The fact is, you thin the heard, it will get more healthy and vibrant. This has been proven over and over (why they have limited hunting and tags). The deer that survive will be able to eat more food.
So, that leads us to why the deer are here? You can argue it's their land first. I'm the believer that human development is not a bad thing though. Coexistence with the deer is possible and has been going on for years.
The real solution that no one wants to talk about is how to truly drive the deer away. That is through human behavior modification. If you don't want deer on your property, don't plan roses and hostas and plants that deer love to eat. Instead, plant deer-resistant plants. Penn State has a brochure with a long list of plants for many types of gardens.
http://extension.psu.edu/plants/master-gardener/counties/pike/publications/list-of-deer-resistance-plants
The deer are nomadic and will go where the food is. If there's no food, they will not stay.
You want to drive the deer away, start with your own property. Stop being lazy and expecting someone else to solve the problem for you.
--Tom the Tinker
I think the last line of Tom the Tinker's above comment is spot on and could be the new motto of Mt. Lebo. "Stop being lazy" to the parents who can't stand up to their spoiled children who cry when it rains. "Stop being lazy" to Public Works, who ignore the massive potholes throughout the community as winter approaches. "Stop being lazy" to the police who are focused on extra-curricular activities rather than ticketing speeding motorists, a basic duty. "Stop being lazy" to the Commission again, for conceiving a piss-poor plan to unconstitutionally reach into the pockets of the newest and most vulnerable members of our community, while arbitrarily exempting themselves. "Stop being lazy" to the PIO, who reports nothing of substance, but instead prints advice on how to color-coordinate holiday gifts. "Stop being lazy" again to the Commission, who want taxpayers to pay more for services already rendered, while they keep the money for the ever-increasing and narrowly beneficial list of 'wants and desires'. And finally, "Stop being fake" to our Commission President, Kristen Linfante, for desperately attempting to perpetuate a false illusion, both personally and professionally, at the cost of the past, present and future of Mt. Lebanon.
- Tiny Tim the Tired Taxpayer
My kids came home from school yesterday with
information about the hunting program that is
taking place at the end of this week. I tried to
correct them.
They were insistent that it was happening since it
was taught to them throughout their day.
Thank you for a night of terror, Dr. Steinhauer !
You are the third parent to tell me this, 11:42 AM. Just be aware that you will be scolded for your piss poor attitude toward the super Super. We dare not say anything negative about Timmy in Mt. Lebanon.
Elaine
It is a Christmas Miracle that Mrs. Linfante said something truthful Elaine.
I'm going to try to get some last minute errands done, so I may not get to pending comments right away.
So please enjoy this short video to keep us in the mood. Jingle Bells on grocery checkout scanners.
Elaine
http://lebocitizens.blogspot.com/2014/09/how-many-people-are-going-to-get-killed.html?m=1
From an earlier Lebocitizens post—
"Update September 25, 2014 9:41 PM
How is this for slanted journalism? Mt. Lebanon ponders how to control deer population Harry Funk, you're a real nice guy, but you neglected to share the count from March 2014.
A survey that Mt. Lebanon conducted in March 2013 counted 342 deer within its boundaries.
The aerial survey results for 2013 are here. Last year's results were credible, according to Kristen.
The aerial survey results for 2014 are here. This year's results are flawed, according to Kristen.
This year's survey total was 196 deer. This is a decrease of 146 deer (42.6%)."
According to the US Census Bureau Mt. Lebanon has a total area of 6.06 square miles.
So, according to the 2013 deer survey, which cost taxpayers good money there were 56.4 deer per sq. Mile.
Using the 2014 survey results, 196 deer divided by 6.06 square miles = 32.3 deer per square mile.
Both years' surveys result in counts far below Linfante's expert that claims 100 deer per sq. mile!
Can we really accept any information from this commissioner?
From the Almanac:
"“It does not mean the commission is stepping back,” from the deer problem, said Susan Morgans, a township spokesperson. “There was only a short period of time to get this together.”"
They've been conducting deer surveys for 2 years, planning to reduce the herd and the PIO has the audacity to claim there was "only a short period of time to get this together."
If you can't conceive and pull together a plan in two years may be you and your cohorts aren't up the task of running a municipality!
A water main break constitutes a disasterous day as well. More evidence that they aren't capable.
This venom is only going to haunt Kristin's legacy as she is not only being petty and mean spirited to her fellow female Commissioner (some females just can't be nice to other females) but to the community that either supports her point of view or not. She has put a dark cloud over the whole issue with her lack of truthfulness. I supported the archery but I will not stand for her low level politics.
I am from West Virginia, so deer hunting is a part of life. If you eat beef or chicken, a respectful hunt should not bother you. Here's why I oppose the deer cull in Mt Lebanon - it's too densely populated which makes this unsafe for nearby people. There is also a large contingent of the community who is vehemently opposed to the cull. This contingent pays taxes like everyone else. The township has a responsibility to reflect the views of the community, and therefore they should have actively sought a non-lethal way of controlling the population. It feels like the commissioners (minus Frassch) like to show their power by thumbing their nose at anyone who does not fall in line with every single view that they have. It's spiteful and immature.
Off topic but pertinent to the big picture.
Over at Lebomag.com they've put up another one of their inane polls.
This one ask "which best describes you?"
Unfortunately, they've left off a very good choice...
• I've lived in Mt. Lebanon a long time and if things keep being run like they have been lately, I'm getting the hell out!
Kelly is the only commissioner of the 5 who should be re-elected!
Bendel's term: Expires 12/31/15
Silverman's term: Expires 12/31/17
Linfante's term: Expires 12/31/15
Brumfield's term: Expires 12/31/17
Fraach's term: Expires 12/31/15
That means there will be 3 important elections in 2015... One requires an important re-election campaign (please run again Kelly) and the other two require bold new candidates who believe in fiscal responsibility, sustainability, transparency, and responsive and responsible government.
- Jason M.
Elaine maybe you should start a listing of lies by President Linfante on the side bar like the High School project with dates lined up. The community at least has a dozen or so by now that are public.
Again, if there was no vote, how the hell did the deer kill idea get as far as it did? Am I missing something? Those idiots "authorized" an archery shoot but didnt follow the law to do so?
Wake up,Lebo. We have a lawless and amateurish government telling us what to do. Im done listening. Excuse me while I go double-park and put out some food for the deer. What's Lebo gonna do about it?
3:00 pm They were using state laws to guide their culling program development. I guess they didn't think they needed to attend to the details.
http://www.huntingpa.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3475655&page=1
Also somewhat off-topic, but I have to take issue with the comment that in part noted "lazy police." Right now is a time when police in general are being unfairly targeted, Mt. Lebanon included. The Chief was basically ordered by his boss, Mr. Feller to put something together. Because a couple employees who hunt happen to be MLPD, does not make any of them lazy, or not doing their basic duty of issuing traffic tickets. You should be thankful that you have such professional officers protecting and serving you.
2:57 PM, sure, I would be willing to do that but what is the use? Kristen has one more year and we can't get rid of her any sooner unless she resigns.
One more problem and that is the limited space in the sidebar.
For example, here is a portion of a letter Kristen sent to a constituent. It is full of lies.
"Unfortunately, we do have an enormous overpopulation problem. Experts estimate that we have about 100 deer per square mile in Mt. Lebanon. The recommended number for the sake of deer and humans is 6-8. We must find a way to reduce the numbers for everyone's safety. Car accidents are rising sharply. The experts tell us that there is no non-lethal method that will solve the problem. THe deer have no predators (other than cars).
Best regards,
Kristen Linfante
Commissioner, Ward 3"
How do we fit all that in the tiny space?
Elaine
Car accidents rising sharply???? I believe the numbers were down in a document posted by the municipal around August that compared (I think) 2014 accidents to those that occurred in the same period in 2013. Unfortunately, the PIO has decided to hide that summary so we can't see it any more. Nonetheless, I think there were a total of just 4 deer related vehicle accidents for both years.
Of course now, the Chief is claiming that a lot of deer/vehicle accidents go unreported. How he knows this I don't know... If they're unreported.
Does anyone see a lot of dead deer littering our streets? How about a sudden surge in BMWs with broken headlights, windshields and dented fenders?
And of course, the maim and injured are just piling up in the St. Clair Hospital Emergency Room.
3:39, I agree that any inference to our police being lazy was probably a poor choice of words. Our chief and his department does a pretty good job and this resident appreciates the difficult job they do.
Having said that, can we agree that they should never have been brought into the deer cull issue in such a manner?
- WS
I'd like to add, had this cull proceeded and an unfortunate accident happened with a stray arrow it would have put the Chief in a tough spot. Would it have happened-- probably not.
But if if it did????
I think the police department should stay out of political issues like deer culls. It's hard to remain trusting in a department that consistently states that it is understaffed, particularly in the traffic division, but then allocates unknown amounts of time to coordinate a deer cull, when other matters in the community are more pressing. I don't imagine that the commission or Feller would INSIST that the police stop what they are doing to address the deer culling if the chief stated that he has his hands full with other matters.
Chief McDonough was given an order and came through with an archery plan in the time that was allotted to him. Fundamentally, Mt. Lebanon is no place to have a hunt, and keeping the golf course open during the hunt was an error of judgment. We might look to the person who pushed for toxic turf, asked for every bell and whistle for the swimming pool project, rushed and opened the pool prematurely, and forgot to include fees for use of Wildcat and signage fees in the 2015 Comprehensive Fee Schedule.
Elaine
According to a comment posted under the Topic "This counts as an incident report" on October 27th @ 2:44 pm the submitter wrote
"Anonymous said...
That deer incident report cracks me up.
Going back to 2011 there are 6 deer incidents with personal injuries.
Two of the reports state the drivers in an effort to avoid the deer careened into a utility pole. Smart... avoid a 200lb deer and drive into solid 3,000lb or more utility pole.
A third incident... the driver slammed on their brakes to avoid a deer and got rear ended.
Couldn't possibly be driving too fast or tailgating that caused the injury could it.
The other 3, we don't get any specifics.
Oh the humanity! People are dying on our roads due to deer, right Ms. Linfante?"
Obviously the author read through the 7/31/14 Deer Incident Report incident report now vanished from the municipal webpage.
Hardly seems like a deer/vehicle collision epidemic does it?
December 23, 2014 at 3:39 PM
First, I fully respect the police and the job they do. However, I've lost total confidence in Chief McDonough, his leadership, and his judgment.
His predecessor, Chief Tom Ogden, would have never allowed himself or his police force to get embroiled in a community divisive and misguided hunting program. Tom spent 30 years building a professional and well educated police force, second to none in the county, and had developed very positive community relations. Tom was extremely concerned with the safety of the culling program back in 2006/07 and 2007/08.
Organizing, promoting, and managing a hunting program is not part of a chief of police's job description. He can't be ordered by Mr. Feller to do this. I observed the proceedings very closely, and from everything I observed, Chief McDonough was a key proactive player in suggesting and recommending a hunting program in Mt. Lebanon, and stepping up to organize, promote, and manage this program. In addition, he's become complicit in spreading misinformation to the community by saying that this program is safe and humane. I don't know if he was a victim of Commissioner Linfante's calculated manipulation and misinformation campaign, or if his proactive participation can be blamed solely on his own bad judgment. Regardless, he has destroyed 30 years of positive police community relations, that was handed to him by Chief Ogden.
I respect the police and the job they do, when it is to serve and protect us, but not when they turn our parks and neighborhoods into a private hunting club, that threatens all of Mt. Lebanon's families, children, and pets. When the police threaten my family, that's when I stand up for my rights and protest loudly.
There's a psychological phenomena of submissive compliance to authority figures, i.e. police, doctors, priests, and rabbis, etc. DeNicola (White Buffalo) has been known to leverage this phenomena to help implement deer killing programs in suburban communities; i.e. he will have the local police officers go door to door to ask for permission to shoot deer on resident's property. The Pa Game Commission (PGC) leverages this same phenomena by dressing up their "conservation" officers in uniforms and giving them a side arm to emulate a police officer. Commissioners display this same submissive compliance by not challenging them with questions, and by turning over their decision making responsibilities to the PGC, a biased agency with their own agenda.
Mt. Lebanon residents must not allow themselves to be intimidated by authority figures, but must know and stand up for their rights. We do not want our parks and neighborhoods turned into a private hunting club or a shooting gallery, and we must take actions to remove the Commissioners, police chief, municipal manager, and anyone else who implements and supports these misguided, inhumane, and dangerous programs. We have the power - they work for us. In addition, we need to pull the curtain back, and expose the lies and the disingenuous agenda being pushed by a few elitist power brokers to turn Mt. Lebanon in to a bloody killing field to protect their tulips.
I still can't get over the fact they never voted on this. That alone is reason enough for Linfante and the other there to step down. Hell, they've already proven we don't need the commission. Let Kelly be a mayor. She has more ability and leadership in one of her fingernails than the other four combined. If the issues they screwed up weren't so costly or serious, I would love it because of the comedic value.
Please let me know when everyone is ready to go with a movement to pass legislation that would allow for removal of local elected people by recall.
600 deer...ha...idiot...
December 23, 2014 at 3:00 PM and 3:31 PM
I believe that Mt. Lebanon needed to vote to allow hunting on its property. They were following regular state hunting regulations and seasons, etc., but hunters still need permission to hunt on private property. Mt. Lebanon can't give that permission without a majority Commission vote. So it appears that they were moving forward with an illegal hunt, before it was postponed. Actually, it is inaccurate to say that they were following regular state hunting regulations; i.e. they were selecting who could hunt on Mt. Lebanon property, only municipal employees, and only one's that passed a "proficiency" test.
It is most unfortunate that Chief McDonough has been put in the middle of certain Commissioners's biased issues. I'm sure it has been difficult for him to stay out of the middle.
What I would like to know now, that since the Commissioners allocated money for deer dulling, which is now a moot point, it would make sense to put the money in funds directed either to road repair, or trimming trees on our municipal roads. It is the Municipality's responsibility to take of roads and the trees. We have wasted waaaaay too much money on Commissioners who whine and carry on about frivolous projects. When are we going back to responsible spending to take care of our community? Enough is enough!!
11:52 PM, the deer culling issue is not a moot point. Far from it. The municipality has applied for two separate permits, one for sterilization and the other for trap and bolt which is horrendous. The game commission is in the process of reviewing these permits.
Kristen continues to push for sharpshooting, a misnomer. Picture Elmer Fudd with a gun and a flashlight.
Archery was only Phase 1.
Elaine
The Most Effective and Safe Solution
Mt. Lebanon now has an opportunity to reevaluate, and implement a safe, humane, and effective deer management program.
The main problem is the smorgasbord of irresistible flowers and plants that residents grow in their yards, and that Mt. Lebanon plants in its 30+ flower islands throughout the community. It's this abundant food resource that is the major attractant causing deer to cross the roads (car-deer collisions) to come into Mt. Lebanon to browse (eating flower complaints).
Below is a brief summary of the recommendations that HSUS' wildlife biologist has repeatedly made to the Mt. Lebanon Commission:
- Holding deer-proofing seminars
- Reaching out and asking residents to plant deer resistant flowers and ornamentals
- Planting deer resistant flowers in the 30+ flower islands throughout the community
- Identifying deer crossing hot-spots and putting up electric/flashing deer warning signs
- Lowering the speed limit
- Implementing a drivers education program for residents
- Educating residents on deer
- Expanding the fence ordinances
- Implementing roadside habitat modification to increase visibility
Laura Simon gave an example where Rochester Hills decreased car-deer collisions by 25% through a resident education program, and the strategic placement of deer warning signs. This program only cost $5,000.
In addition, Mt. Lebanon could also implement a deer contraception or sterilization program.
Allen Rutberg Ph.D., Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy, and a leading deer contraception scientist wrote that, "suburban deer populations have been stabilized and reduced over time by 35-50% ... The most dramatic reduction so far ... has been associated with a population reduction of 44% in five years." Tony DeNicola, President of White Buffalo, estimated 10 - 20% annual population reduction with sterilization during Mt. Lebanon's deer forum.
The Pa Game Commission (PGC) has opposed deer fertility and sterilization options in the past, because the PGC and their hunter constituents felt threatened by these non-hunting population mgt options.
Gary Fujak, the PGC representative told the Commissioners that the PGC requires that they implement a hunting program in Mt. Lebanon, or the PGC wouldn't consider or approve a sterilization program. Commissioner Brumfield asked Fujak why they had to approve hunting to get a sterilization program approved. Fujak had no answer, and Brumfield didn't follow-up. Then later Fujak said something like, these kinds of decisions were all above his pay scale, or something to that effect. It makes no logical sense, that if Mt. Lebanon is too densely populated and developed to safely implement a hunting or culling program, why the PGC would force it to implement a hunting program that put residents at risk, before approving a safe alternative option.
While the PGC has not approved deer contraception or sterilization to date, I have no doubt that if Mt. Lebanon had the will it could get a full contraception or sterilization program approved w/o a hunting program. First, Mt. Lebanon would have to firmly request a sterilization program w/o hunting, based on the serious safety risks hunting poses to families and their children. The Commissioners have to stand up for its residents, and not kowtow to the PGC. I'm sure that Senator Matt Smith, State Rep. Dan Miller, and State Rep. John Maher would fully back Mt. Lebanon's proposal for a sterilization or contraception program, w/o hunting, and would send a letter or sign a communal letter to that effect. This would be the added political pressure required to get the PGC to approve the program.
This could be an opportunity for Mt. Lebanon to show its progressive vision and leadership in the state by implementing the first sterilization or contraception deer management program in Pennsylvania. It could be the model for others to follow.
4;43, sounds reasonable, but you have to have reasonable people in charge to implement it.
Recent history shows there are far too few of them in power.
In my humble opinion, all of the deer drama can be traced back to turf and Brumfield. Kristin always wanted the deer cull and Brumfield wanted the turf. They made a deal. The gardeners became a politically strong subgroup because of the turf. Sad.
She wrote it in 2012!
Where the hell was everyone giving Commissioner Frasch support! I had to blink twice at the date.
I'd like to wish the 600 deer that live in Commissioner Linfante's back yard, Merry Christmas!
I find it amazing that with "100 deer per sq. mile" in Mt. Lebanon, that I've only seen 2 deer in the last 10 years, and they were in Bird Park. And I've never seen one dead deer on the side of the road.
It is interesting how USC was used as a reference for culling. MtL has budgeted $68,000 for culling in 2015 while USC has a contract budget with USDA Wildlife for special use culling permits that will not exceed $37,000. How is the culling of deer such an expensive undertaking in MtL? Maybe it will really cost much less than $37,000 and the extra cash can go into Dave Brumfield’s unassigned slush fund for turf. Reference for USC: http://www.twpusc.org/government/14November3.pdf
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