Kelly,
I am sorry that I chose to miss last night's meeting. It sounds like it was a humdinger! I am hearing lots of rumors and I have lots of questions. I hope you can answer them for me and clear up any rumors.
Where is the hunt occurring that Kristen spoke of last night?
Who was responsible for getting the program up and running? How did they do it?
Did other commissioners know about it? Did you know about it? Did Steve Feller know about it? The Chief? Public Works?
When we had the deer culling in 2006-08, Public Works was responsible for visiting the killing fields to make sure that the area was cleaned up. Is this being done for the private cull?
Who is responsible if there is an accident?
Have there been any complaints or reports concerning this activity?
The video of the meeting has not been posted. Is it being pulled?
Elaine Gillen
Kelly's response:
First, I was very surprised last night hearing about such a program potentially being conducted. I didn't know anything about it.
I will say someone did ask me about conducting such a program (months ago) and I referred them to our Police Chief for information.
I never heard it amounted to anything, but if I did, I would have notified my fellow Commissioners and the staff right away.
I do believe if the staff knew about a serious inquiry or program actually being conducted they would have shared that information with the full Commission.
Even though we have no say as a municipality, I believe we all should have knowledge about such a program being conducted to help address any questions.
I am gathering from emails from Steve Feller that our staff is not aware of any program actually being conducted.
So that leads to your first question, where? I don't know and I am not 100% one is actually being conducted or was conducted in recent weeks.
Who was responsible for getting the program up and running? A private property owner can seek permission from the Game Commission without the municipality being notified.
However common sense would be with all of the municipality's communications with the PA Game Commission in recent weeks we would certainly hear about an inquiry or program within our neighborhoods.
Again, I am saying that would make sense, but I could be wrong.
Other Commissioners know? I don't know for sure, but I will say a couple of them looked just as surprised as I was.
I received an email earlier from Steve Feller and he indicated that he did not know about a program being conducted.
Chief McDonough was on the email chain and he didn't indicate that he had knowledge of such a program being conducted.
A couple of these I will need to verify with Phil.
Your next question is a guess, but if the program is on private land than all costs, maintenance and liability would be on that private property owner.
I checked with Phil, and it appears this is correct.
Who is responsible if there is an accident? My guess is the property owners that are hosting the program and complied with the Game Commission.
Information from Phil, Mt Lebanon has no liability to any accidents and therefore cannot also regulate any such program.
We have had complaints and notifications of potential hunting in Robb Hollow and McNeilly this year, but that is all that I have heard about.
When tree stands were discovered in McNeilly I alone heard from a handful of people, so I don't think someone can conduct a program without some neighbor being aware.
Obviously Steve Feller would know if complaints had come in, and again, he clearly stated by email that he had no knowledge of such a program being conducted in Mt Lebanon.
I am not sure why the video isn't up, but probably later today. If not by the end of the day, I will inquire.
You are not the only person inquiring about this issue today, so I will try and get back to you with any information as soon as I can.
This is my individual opinion that the PA Game Commission has regulations and rules for hunting but not for communities like Mt Lebanon.
All of these questions, which are basic/appropriate need to be addressed by the Game Commission.
The regulations/restrictions the Game Commission does have could be very appropriate for places that have acreage, but most definitely we cannot compare to such demographics with our smaller property sizes.
I hope the PA Game Commission will make amendments/review their process and program and seek some clarification on hunting regulations for places like Mt Lebanon. Obviously we cannot be the only community in PA trying to seek clarification and address these issues.
I am copying Phil if he has anything to add.
Best, Kelly
As of 5:49 PM on Tuesday, January 6, 2015, there are no meeting videos available. I did not hear anything from Phil Weis.
Update January 7, 2015 8:29 AM Latest email exchange with Kristen Linfante.
Update January 7, 2015 9:03 AM This is the last email exchange that I will be adding to the blog today, since I am just "fanning her flames." Kristen Linfante 8:52 AM email
Update January 7, 2015 8:29 AM Latest email exchange with Kristen Linfante.
Update January 7, 2015 9:03 AM This is the last email exchange that I will be adding to the blog today, since I am just "fanning her flames." Kristen Linfante 8:52 AM email
51 comments:
Pennsylvania Game Regulations require deer hunters to wear fluorescent orange at all times during the hunt.
If they aren't they shouldn't be hunting in Lebo and the police better be on it.
See a hunter in your neighborhood without one-- call the police.
Then email or send 'our real and favorite public information officer' a photo to get an alert out. Morgans probably won't cover it.
http://pagamecommission.wordpress.com/2014/10/30/pennsylvania-fluorescent-orange-requirement-charts/
The video is available at mtlebanon.org.
Elaine
I don't think anyone is actually doing this...maybe ignoring the comments of the rogue "on leave" commissioner would be a good strategy for dealing with this situation.
Try again 6:13...None Required
No fluorescent orange is required during the regular archery deer season, except during an overlap with turkey seasons and during the early muzzleloader deer season/special October antlerless firearms season. Hunters participating in the after-Christmas flintlock muzzleloader or archery deer seasons also are not required to wear fluorescent orange.
The rules and regulations for hunting are the same statewide. Mt. Lebanon cannot create any rules or ordinances in an attempt to supersede Game Commission regulations.
Also, Fraasch is incorrect about the need to seek Game Commission approval to hunt on private property. Any property owner in PA may grant a licensed hunter permission to hunt on their property.
Property owners may waive the 50 yard (from a structure) safety zone requirement for archery hunting on THEIR property. Hunters may not archery hunt within 50 yards of a structure if the owner does not waive this safety zone requirement. So, Yes...if several home owners get together and waive the safety zone requirement for their group of properties, there are numerous locations where archery hunting could occur in Mt. Lebanon.
Everything described above is legal hunting. There are no requirements for property owners or hunters to notify anyone (municipality, police department, unaffected neighbors, etc.).
I would venture to guess that any hunters involved in hunting on private property in Mt. Lebanon are family members, friends, or maybe the home owners themselves. With all of the licensed archery hunters in PA, it surely wouldn't be hard to find someone to hunt on your property for free.
8:52, I'm perplexed.
Are you suggesting that we ignore a commissioner that may or may not show up for a meeting?
So how do we know when to listen?
How do we know what is a fact?
How ridiculous!!!!
I appreciate Kelly's email and providing us with some explanation with transparency. Why was Kristen so irresponsible with her wording? This has irresponsible and manipulative Kristen written all over it.
9:16 only going by the linked PA Game Commission's Chart on vest in my comment.
Do I denote a bit of smugness in your comment. A ha moment of "we're too smart for you people, we've got all the basis covered for our private hunt."
Are your flowers and landscaping all that precious?
Correction @10:02
bases not basis
9:16 PM Don't know who you are, but you obviously don't sound like a Mt. Lebanon resident, or you would know that Mt. Lebanon is not a hotbed of licensed bow hunters, that want to hunt in their back yards.
Has Commissioner Linfante gone completely rogue and organized her own hunting program in Mt. Lebanon? Maybe, but I don't think so. I think she's had help, and that there's a cover-up going on.
My guess is that Commissioner Fraasch was kept in the dark, but I believe others are complicit in the municipality that know what's going on.
Why aren't the other Commissioners asking Linfante to tell them what the hell is going on, so that information can be sent out in a Lebo Alert, so that parents can take actions to protect their children?
Why haven't any Mt. Lebanon officials been asked to investigate to see if these residents meet all the criteria to legally use or invite hunters to use lethal weapons on their property to assure the safety of residents and children?
In addition, I find it very interesting that Susan Morgans had a prepared legally reviewed statement referring all inquires to the Pa Game Commission at her finger tips, if she had no knowledge of what was going on.
Furthermore, I get the impression that the Commission is making an intentional effort of not to know or find out, so that they can plead ignorance and avoid any liability.
I hope Commissioner Fraasch investigates and gets to the bottom of what's going on.
9:16: Try again. Hunters ARE required to wear fluorescent orange hats when the season overlaps with turkey season and can only remove them when stationary and not moving, or stationary in a tree stand. All property owners are required to post their property for hunting. Besides, not doing the previous doesn't make sense, is completely unreasonable and stupid to hunt and not where orange, or tell your neighbors. Go troll somewhere else!
There has been too much secrecy going on for too long in this municipality. I encourage Kelly F. file complaints to the PA State Ethics Board and request investigations concerning the corruption that has been going on. We taxpapyers have waited too long.
9:16 PM is correct about fluorescent orange.
I don't care if they wear pink polka dots. I am more concerned where this activity is occurring. And if Kristen is lying about this too, what does it take to get her to resign?
Don't give me crap about glee and rejoicing. Kristen has been lying since I first heard about her in 2010. She has been caught in lies too many times as a commissioner. I watched the discussion session video. I can't tell you the time stamp when she dropped the bomb about hunting, but the time on the clock on the wall in the video was around 7:50. I hope Albert Turfstein puts it on YouTube.
Elaine
elaine - sadly - since there seems to be no recall procedure, or desire for her to resign, i think one approach would be to literally resist fanning this commissioner's flames. we can't believe her. yes, mt lebanon, it's time you stop believing your government.
10:33 - not trolling, just trying to share some facts, as was confirmed by Elaine (11:05pm)
Here's a PG article from 2013 that is very relevant to this discussion:
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/outdoors/2013/12/01/State-s-hunting-law-takes-precedence-over-local-ordinances/stories/201312010069
Also, where do I find documentation on the requirement for property owners to post their property if they plan to permit hunting to take place? I've never heard of this. I've only heard of property owners posting their property with "No Hunting" signs to communicate to hunters that they are forbidden on their property.
And...10:20 pm - over 900,000 hunting licenses sold in PA in 2014. There are probably more hunters in Lebo than you think. More than trolls anyway.
I just watched the discussion meeting from Monday. I was shocked that Kristin wanted to encourage residents to take killing deer into their own hands, even wanting to offer that option on the municipal website. I said it before and I'll say it again, this woman is dangerous.
Nick M.
11:56: It is confusing that when I see signs posted for hunting, I perceive that property posted and communicated to the public for that purpose. Then again, I see signs for no hunting. So, I'm thinking that having a sign either way is communication to the public regarding hunting on private property. I have concerns for public safety at all times, especially, in a built out community in Mt. Lebanon. I don't care what the law stipulates in regards to signage. Houses in ML are extremely close for hunting. Residents need to feel safe at all times as well as all of their children. Just because a hunter has a license from PA doesn't mean they are experienced, competent, or a professional marksman.
My guess is that our new guest troll 9:16 PM and 11:56 PM is either John Hayes, the Post-Gazette's pro-hunting outdoors columnist, who is the mouth piece for the Pa Game Commission's (PGC) efforts to promote "hunting" in all of Pittsburgh's suburban neighborhoods, or Gary Fujak himself, the regional PGC representative, who is working with Feller to craft a hunting program in Mt. Lebanon. While I don't remember seeing John Hayes at any of the Mt. Lebanon Commission meetings, he has written a number of articles reporting on these meetings, and biased articles promoting hunting in Mt. Lebanon. This troll who is just trying to "educate" us is obviously not a Mt. Lebanon resident, and so what is his purpose of being on this blog
Yes, apparently those of us believing orange is required are in error (partially) according to the link below the schizo PA Game Commission "suggest" orange should be worn when hunting.
Typical government nonsense.
http://www.dailylocal.com//sports/20141020/outdoors-orange-is-the-newcamo
Property owners do not need to post anything if they are hosting a hunt on their own property. No requirement at all just a suggestion by the Game Commission.
2:59 AM, Gary Fujak has been replaced with Chris Bergman. Watch the discussion session video and listen to Dave Brumfield express his dissatisfaction with gun totin' Gary.
I tried to clarify that on mtl Magazine's Facebook page. They list g.t. Gary as the Game Commission representative.
Elaine
7:30 AM. Thank you.
Feeling safe?
Elaine
I almost felt bad for Brumfield. His angst over the guy at the PAGC mishandling the municipality's paperwork was quite evident during the discussion session. Of course, being a part of government himself he should have known that this is par for the course. Give a man a title and some authority and he becomes an officious weasel, suitable only as material for a stand-up comic.
Bob D.
OMG! Please read the latest email exchange I had with Kristen Linfante. It is listed in the update of 8:29 AM.
Elaine
Another email from Kristen. See update #2. It is none of my business.
Elaine
If it was one of her neighbors, they probably were hunting on Hoodridge, right? The backyards on both sides of Roycroft are probably too steep. The largest lots are on the south side of Hoodridge, although some of those back up to Foster elementary. The lots between Ridgeview and White Oak are also large. If I was a betting man, I would wager on the area between Hoodridge and Woodland and the area between Ridgeview and White Oak.
Seems pretty ridiculous to be hunting on those areas. They are larger by Mt. Lebo standards, but still so small to be used for hunting.
I contacted Kelley Fraash yesterday to talk about this issue. I don't think everyone is wanting to know because they are looking to protest as I have heard from fellow parents this morning. I think people want to know so they can direct their children to avoid a certain area. My kids cut through some pathways that are located on properties as have many kids over the generations. How do we not know if these homes have hired a hunt? Logically you would think the property owners would think about this but I don't want to assume.
10:00 AM, yes that is quite possible, but don't you think it would have come up in the conversation?
I'm leaving this one up to the commissioners. It is their business, contrary to what Kristen thinks. The commissioners had the perfect opportunity to end Kristen's nonsense, but chose not to. She is Public Enemy #1.
Elaine
Contacted Kelly Fraasch last night and shared my huge concern for the lack of leadership to get a Commissioner out of office that has become one of our worst elected officials this town has seen. Why aren't these Commissioners having the "talk" with her and insisting on a resignation? This is only making them look bad each day that she lies and creates her chaos of misinformation to the public. I will admit to voting for her but I will never vote on the D line again.
Kelly Fraasch wrote: "I hope the PA Game Commission will make amendments/review their process and program and seek some clarification on hunting regulations for places like Mt Lebanon."
So the consensus is that state law trumps municipal law and that residents have the right to hunt on their own land, provided they comply with all appropriate regulations. Are you too advocating that the state act to limit what we can do on our own private property? Or to compel us to tell the government what we're doing on our private property? If that is what you're advocating, are you sure you're a Republican?
Also, when the deer management program was canceled, there was some scuttlebutt about a generous benefactor that bought up the remaining licenses to prevent municipal archers from getting theirs. This latest development makes me think that this person didn't have the same motivation as what was presumed.
I live on White Oak, and there is no one hunting between White Oak and Ridgeview, although fewer deer have been seen since the frigid cold and wind chill arrived.
10:33 - I have to agree with you from a property rights point of view. If it's your property and what you're doing is legal, then you have every right to do so.
What if I feel strongly about saving a certain type of tree instead of deer? I could certainly lobby the municipality not to cut them down, but I'd have no standing to prevent a private property owner from doing so on their own land.
Give me break with government intrusion trope. Hunting deer in the backyards of Mt. Lebanon is ridiculous. There are a million things we can't do on our property, but, darn it, you draw the line on being able to hunt deer in a first-ring suburb. Are you advocating that there is never a reasonable reason to limit actions that can take place in a residential area?
I think cutting down trees is different, although thousands of communities also restrict private owners from cutting down certain trees. What is legal can change, which I believe was the point originally raised.
Sorry Commissioner Linfante... IT IS OUR BUSINESS!
how do we know these 'hunters' had the proper permits and license to hunt deer?
Did the Game Commissiobn check? Remember we had "volunteers" ready and willing to kill some deer, but they couldn't because they never got the licenses necessary. I'm told hunters need to prominently display their tags. Did they?
The Chief doesn't even know there was a hunt going on. Hmmm makes me wonder about how safe we are in our homes and kids in school if people can roam freely in the community with weapons!
Lets see if we can concoct a story of suspense an intrique.
In a tiny hamlet in a far away place the gentry believing their position in life entitles them to complete unquestionable rule over everything. After all... they are special.
So, eventually these royals, enjoying their frills and palatial estates get miffed that the local wildlife are destroying their well manicured lawns and gardens.
So they push their local representatives to take care of the pest, but the officials inept as usually screw up the schedule by not understanding and completing the necessary forms and paperwork.
Now the gentry are getting angry so they take it upon themselves to eradicate the nuisance from their little corner of the hamlet.
No more assertions that the extermination benefits the public as a whole, the roads be damned, the children of the hamlet be damned, they want the wildlfe gone... all legal like of course.
Now the wise and powerful gentry don't implicate the local constabulary or governors in the scheme so mum's the word.
Townsfolk ask the governors and constable about the little extermination, they want a warning of the hunt, but of course the officials know nothing and if they did, it's beyond their official capacities.
Plausible deniability shields them from any link to the effort.
Is the above a fairy tale, maybe... maybe not.
Thank you Commissioner Linfante.
I see now that I can stop paying those damn tire disposal fees and start disposing of my used tires in our parks. Hey, it must be safe and legal you're doing it!
Yes, I do understanding that I have to chop them up into pieces before spreading them around the park.
Oh don't question me, I'm doing something that is legal because the Pennsylvania Constitution dictates that laws must be applied uniformly.
If it's OK for you to do, it's OK for me.
It's true that the Pennsylvania Game Commission's (PGC) hunting regulations supersedes local ordinances on hunting, and that neighbors don't even have to be informed of this dangerous activity going on right next to their homes or in their neighborhood. However, this a bad law and should be challenged, especially since the PGC's safety zones regulations are totally arbitrary and have nothing to do with safety or protecting the public. The PGC has no idea how densely populated and developed local communities are and if it has any safe places to hunt or not. Local communities should have the democratic right to pass ordinances that they feel protect their families from hunting and firing lethal weapons in their parks and neighborhoods. These laws have been challenged in other states and have been overturned.
I don't care if my neighbor cuts a tree down on their property, but hunting or firing lethal weapons that pose a serious safety risk to my family, children, and pets is another matter. IMO, families should have a legal right to feel safe from the threat of lethal weapons in their homes and community, and should be informed if this dangerous activity is going on next to their homes or in their neighborhood, so that they can take appropriate actions to protect their children.
The Pennsylvania Game Commission's (PGC) "safety zone" regulations are totally arbitrary, and have nothing to do with safety or protecting the public. State law provides a "safety zone" restricting firearm hunting within 150 yards of occupied buildings, and 50 yards for archery hunting. The archery safety zone was changed from 150 yards to 50 yards a few years ago to open up more hunting opportunities for its hunter constituents, but remains 150 yards if in proximity to schools or day care centers. However, this 150 yard expanded safety zone for archery in proximity to schools or day care centers doesn't apply to back yards with children playing. These "safety zone" regulations are totally inadequate to protect the safety of the public. The maximum range for a compound bow is 595 yards, and an extreme cam compound bow 931yards. The maximum range for a .223 rifle with 55 grain bullets (typical rifle and ammo used for suburban deer culls) is 2.2 miles, and a .3006 rifle (typical deer hunting rifle) is 3.22 miles. So how can "safety zones" of 150 yards and 50 yards protect the public, especially in a densely populated and developed community like Mt. Lebanon?
No one knows if the Mt. Lebo residents who decided to hunt or invite hunters on their property are doing so legally and have met the PGC's safety zone regulations or not. This should be a serious concern of the Mt. Lebanon Commission, and all Mt. Lebanon residents. A credentialed official from Mt. Lebanon and the PGC should be allowed to investigate and verify that these residents are in compliance with the safety zone regulations.
In addition, I think it's reckless and unethical that these residents would not notify Mt. Lebanon and their neighbors, so that residents can take appropriate actions to protect their children
11:29 AM - Of course there are reasonable limits on what actions can be taken in a residential area. State law prohibits me from hunting on my property since I'm too close to my neighbors. Makes sense to me, but if your property allows you to meet all of the relevant laws in place then more power to you.
As an aside, communities in Pennsylvania are not allowed to enforce regulations against cutting down trees - they're specifically prohibited from restricting forestry operations under the Municipal Planning Code. Of course, most people don't realize this, so just having a regulation on the books is enough to scare people away from cutting down certain trees.
11:29 AM - What do you propose? A new regulation in Mt. Lebanon that requires a property owner to inform the police if they intend to hunt on their property? A regulation banning hunting on private property all together in Mt. Lebanon?
Either one of those would certainly face opposition, and from the sound of it would end up being rejected in the state courts. Remember, we just had to delete our regulations against the open carry of handguns in our parks because it conflicts with state and federal law and we were afraid of being sued.
Does anybody even know if any deer were killed during this "hunt"? Were any arrows fired? Or did somebody just hang out on their back porch for a while with a bow?
Interesting how Commissioner Linfante story went from, "I heard the news from a neighbor. They did not tell me which street(s), to "No this is not hearsay. I am quite confident that this took place, and perhaps still is." How does she know that this is a lawful activity if no official has certified that these residents are in compliance with the safety zones regulations? Commissioner Linfante needs to get her story straight. Doesn't Commissioner Linfante think it would be a good thing to make sure that these residents are in compliance with state hunting regulations, and that it would be a good thing to send an alert out to inform residents so that they can take the necessary precautions to protect themselves and their children?
The school district publishes safe walking routes annually. Here are the recommended safe walking routes. "For students in elementary school, locate your school map and find your address. You may then follow the blue arrows to the school." Following the blue arrows takes on a whole new meaning now, doesn't it?
Elaine
Could this just be another big lie that Commissioner Linfante got caught up in? I'm thinking that if there were hunters roaming around any of Mt. Lebanon's neighborhoods, and dead deer being drug out to trucks, that there would have been calls to the police department or municipal offices.
Isn't this interesting regarding hunting licenses.
"Display: Licenses are no longer required to be displayed on an outer garment. If you are checked by a wildlife conservation officer or the landowner while afield, you must have all applicable hunting and furtaker licenses on your person, along with positive ID to confirm identification and residency."
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=596055&mode=2
Since it is highly unlikely that there will be any wildlife conservation officers checking hunters in Mt. Lebanon and these cull-hungry private landowners certainly aren't going to check for documents, we've opened up our community as a poachers paradise!
The Police Dept. doesn't know (tsk, tsk) where the Game Commission has approved hunting so they can't easily check for licenses or Safe Zones. Resident don't know if their neighbor opened their land to hunting so won't know whether an archer is legal or not so hey deer hunters... its open season in the bubble... Come 'n Get 'Em.
Just be careful not to hit anybody, please.
Way to go Commissioner Linfante!!! Thanks for nothing. Our family feels so much safer now. We weren't too concerned with hitting a deer while driving... cautious yes... but not concerned, but now we have to worry about illegal hunters possibly roaming near our home.
Hunting shouldn't be allowed in the backyards of virtually all of Mt. Lebanon homes. Whether the PGC closes the loophole or weak rules that allow hunting on small plots in a first-ring suburb or whether the state enacts a law to allow municipalities to determine what is right and safe for their community, I don't particularly care. I don't think either option should be seen as some tyrannical move or an assault on liberty.
Elaine, thanks for having the guts and persistence to email Commissioner Linfante and calling her out on her statements. The other Commissioners should have done that, but none of them did - what's up with that?
They've allowed her to get away with so many lies, and have never once called on her to substantiate her crazy statements in the past.
The only way to stop her from lying is to call her out and ask her to substantiate her claims with evidence and facts. When confronted she goes into attack mode, but never backs up her claims with facts.
I'm not saying that she is lying about this neighborhood hunting program, but she very well could be - it fits a pattern. Regardless, she needs to be called out on her statements and pressed for answers.
On 1/7/15 @ 8:17 am Kristen Linfante responds to Elaine: "I don't know. I heard this from a neighbor. They did not tell me which street(s)."
Then after Elaine probes further she responds on 1/7/15 @ 8:52 am: "No, this is not hearsay, I am quite confident this took place, and perhaps still is. The fact that whatever lawful activities that residents choose to participate in on their private property is none of your business or anyone else's including the municipality's."
First she does know if it involves a street or streets. A neighbor told her, so therefore it is substantiated apparently, in her mind.
Then from that she makes a leap to-- it's not hearsay. Did she confirm with the Game Commission in the space of 35 minutes that a legal hunt was occurring somewhere in Mt.Lebanon and that all the safe zones and restriction were met?
If Elaine's post of the email exchange is true, this is one superwoman. When I talk to a state agency I'm lucky if it doesn't take over 15 minutes just getting someone familar with the topic in question on the phone.
Linfante, managed to read Elaine's reply at 8:22, get all the obivious questions answered and type a response back to Elaine in just 35 minutes.
Remarkable stuff.
I'm betting she also has the dimensions of every MTL property memorized and can tell you which ones meet the safe zone specifications.
Wow, never mind the deer thing, because the school district is advocating something far, far worse! I can't believe how grave this is!
Look for yourself - the recommended walking routes for Foster go... I can't even bring myself to say it... they go through... Castle Shannon!
Our precious gradeschoolers won't just be exposed to errant arrows from hidden hunters, no! They'll be exposed to sub-par street maintenance! Lax signage and billboard ordinances! Even... TWERKING!
I mean, even Keystone Oaks School District won't let their kids walk to school down those grim avenues! So WHY SHOULD WE?!
Outrage! This is outrage!!!
3:51, walking a little through Castle Shannon can't be worse than having your loved ones walk down Washington Road, cross at Conner, proceed up Washington (crossing the ice pile) to Terrace. With heavy traffic in the morning and drivers rushing to work, I would be very concerned with kids crossing at that major intersection.
Nick M.
Anonymous.
http://pennrecord.com/news/4114-montgomery-county-pa-commissioner-charged-with-perjury-after-18-month-grand-jury-investigation
3:51 when a kid gets killed on those roads, I'll have my hacker friends talk to you about the funeral costs and then some. glad to see you entered your line of work for the right reasons.
Elaine January 7, 2015 at 7:34 AM
If Gary Fujak, the PGC rep.,is out of the picture, then my guess is that the new troll 9:16 PM and 11:56 PM is John Hayes, the Post-Gazette's pro-hunting outdoors columnist. I'm guessing that he was posting on the previous thread on hunter harassment too. However, I haven't noticed any new posts from him. He should promote hunting in his own community, and stay the hell out of our community.
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