The petition shared with the commission and those in attendance at the meeting last night is available here. It is available to download and distribute among Allegheny County residents. Supporters must be at least 18 years old and reside in Allegheny County.
Tuesday, March 24, 2015
County wide petition that both hunters and PETA would sign
A petition to be sent to County Executive Rich Fitzgerald's office seeking a ban on trap-and-kill culling in Allegheny County was presented to the Commission last night. The resident asked if the Commission would like to sign it. Vice President Kelly Fraasch did, and some in the crowd loudly clapped. She was the only one who would sign it. Silverman and Bendel aren't feeling very sorry about their horrific plan.
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30 comments:
They need an online version with results going to the county (and game commission and the governor).
Thank you, Hope to have my copy of the petition filled ASAP
A message for Joe Hirsch --
Thank you for putting together the petition form! I'm getting a new pair of sneakers tonight and walking til it's filled up.
Elaine, let's keep a running tab of the number of signatures submitted.
why not make this for the ENTIRE STATE??? in addition to the humanity, it would put a-holes like Benner out of business.... (possibly, hopefully....)
LOL peta and hunters. i <3 it
Carol and I will also be walking for signatures this week end. Feel free to download and copy the petition. I have been told by a political consultant/lobbyist that paper petitions are given much more attention and have signatures? the greatest impact. Imagine if the county council saw 5,000 signatures! Maybe then deer would stop being shot. Copies of this are going to vets offices, pet stores, groomer and rescue groups, shelters and anywhere else I can thin of. I will print until run out of money and then get some more money.
I am preparing a fact sheet that will have some of the answers and sources of information about successful non-lethal programs that have reduced deer herd size and will send them to Elaine to post. stay tuned
Obviously, this petition has good intentions, but I think it's misguided and missing the more important issue. Even if trap-and-shoot was banned in Allegheny County or Pennsylvania, that doesn't stop the Mt. Lebanon Commission from hiring a deer killing contractor to implement a bait-and-shoot program or from implementing a bow hunting program, or for other densely populated and developed communities from doing the same. These deer killing programs are just as inhumane, and using lethal weapons in densely populated and developed communities isn't safe and is an accident waiting to happen. Any community would have to be complete idiots to hire Benner to implement a totally failed corral bait-and-shoot program in Pa again. So why go through all of this petition effort to ban just one killing method, and leave bait-and-shoot and bow hunting on the table in Mt. Lebanon and other densely populated communities.
BTW, a county and state ban just isn't going to fly. Fitzgerald and Wolf aren't going to sign a ban. Humane advocates have been fighting for years to stop the barbaric pigeon shoots in Pa. I think Pa might be the last state in the country that allows them, and they can't even get that passed through the state legislature.
So I think the petition needs to be focused with obtainable objectives.
IMO, the petition should be community focused (Mt. Lebanon), i.e. to take bait-and-shoot, bow hunting, and trap-and-shoot (corral and clover traps), and all lethal methods off the table in Mt. Lebanon, and focus on non-lethal solutions. The petition should demand that the Pa Game Commission (PGC) approve deer contraception and sterilization as safe and effective alternatives in densely populated and developed communities like Mt. Lebanon, where it's not safe to bow hunt or shoot rifles, and with no stupid PGC regulations that the community must first allow hunting, before safe and non-lethal solutions would be considered and approved.
This is the kind of petition that State Rep. Dan Miller, State Senator Matt Smith, and State Rep. John Maher can use to put pressure on the PGC's idiotic and biased regulations against safe and non-lethal solutions.
6:51: I completely agree. Yours is a much better plan.
First of all, trap and kill means kill with anything not just rifles. We cannot take on the whole world at one time but I will take whatever small portion of it we can. I have spoken to hunters have said that bait, trap and kill is inhumane and they are very much on our side at this time. So are many on the pro-cull. This petition is only one of part of the action that needs to be taken. I cannot put my time, effort, and money behind something that has no chance of working and trying to solve the entire problem at one time certainly will not work. I believe that we have a moral obligation to stop the concept of trapping an animal before you execute it. That is where we start. So now we are talking. Some pro-cullers have actually signed the my petition. We now have an opportunity to talk to one another without screaming. That's a good start on finding a a solution that we all can agree upon. We almost all agree that we need fewer deer in the community and secondly that if we could find a non-lethal way to accomplish that they would support it. Spaying the females works and has been documented.
I firmly believe that if we get the trap and shoot concept is banned, we take an one important step to opening the door to doing something productive and non-lethal. Certainly doing nothing doesn't work.
Oh, and by the way, don't believe that the commissioners would not approve another trap if some "Expert" comes in and says that the problem is the Benner used the wrong method to trap the animals. We could see clover traps next year. If you read between the lines, they left that door open. That is why only one of them signed the petition and they evaded the question about what they planned next.And don't believe, either, that the county lawmakers have not taken note of the bad publicity that this brought to Mt. Lebanon.They may not be as closed minded as you think.
I don't think you'll be able to get Mt Lebanon to scrap lethal methods when neighboring communities engage in bow hunting. But I do think the state could adopt an anti-cruelty measure, similar to NY's, to apply to baiting deer into pens for slaughter. Both hunters and non-hunters agree that this is cruelty.
I say make it statewide....if Rocco can get a law, so can our deer.
"Mt. Lebanon police Deputy Chief Aaron Lauth said that in 2014, South Hills Cooperative Animal Control picked up 316 deer apparently struck and killed by vehicles in the 12 South Hills communities they cover, including 106 in Mt. Lebanon."
I wonder if the Deputy Chief could provide us with a break down of the deer struck and killed in each of the other 11 communities in the Coop?
He's told us Mt. Lebanon had 106 in 2014.
It'd be interesting to see the 2013 numbers for each community as well.
The facts from the SH Cooperative might be very illuminating and they're free. So why not look at them.
Armed with those numbers we could probably make some very educated decisions regarding how we should approach the deer issue.
"“For the good of the community, we must try to reset the dialogue,” President John Bendel read from a letter at the meeting."
BY ALL MEANS COMMISSIONER BENDEL LET'S RESET THE DIALOGUE.
LETS RESET IT WITH SOME FACTS, SOME HONESTY, TRANSPARENCY AND WITHOUT PRESET AGENDAS!
THE NUMBERS REGARDING DEAD DEER PICKED BY THE SOUTH HILLS COOP WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE TO START. IT'S FREE INFORMATION AND DEPENDING ON THE NUMBERS MAY SUPPORT ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. WE WON'T KONW WHICH UNTIL WE EVALUATE THE DATE.
I was going to get signatures this weekend for the Allegheny County petition as I am a non resident of Lebo. Will hold off until advised if this petition will or will not be used
Bendel claims a need to reset the dialogue, but from all appearances after reading the latest newspaper and PIO articles on the cull the commissions have hit the ground running with plans to do exactly as they have... look to shoot as many deer as possible.
They'll hire more experts that'll claim we're inundated with more deer than you can shake a stick at. Plus they're already planning to shoot at them with something... arrows or high velocity ammo.
Doesn't sound like much of a reset from the guy saying we need one, does it.
with re 11:46..
"He's told us Mt. Lebanon had 106 in 2014."
Are there more details, such as: Did the car hit the deer? Did the deer hit the car? Was the car driven at or under the speed limit? What were the road conditions? Were there multiple strikes on one road? Were the roads illuminated by street lights?
Bendel speaks out of both sides of his mouth - always has. You cannot trust anything he says.
March 24, 2015 at 11:03 PM
You are obviously free to launch any petition you want. However, I believe that you are petitioning the wrong authority. Allegheny County does not have the authority to ban trap-and-kill deer programs in the County. The Pa Game Commission's (PGC) authority supercedes Allegheny County's and so if you are going to petition to ban trap-and-kill deer programs I believe you should be petitioning the Pa Game Commission, or you are likely just wasting your time.
My focus is to stop Mt. Lebanon's Commission from implementing another inhumane, dangerous, and ineffective deer killing program. Your petition banning trap-and-kill deer programs in Allegheny County will not prevent Mt. Lebanon from implementing a bow hunting and/or bait-and-shoot deer killing program in the fall, which apparently based on all comments made so far is their intention. I think for Mt. Lebanon residents this should be their main focus.
This fight is all about local politics. We need to organize and remove Commissioners that vote to turn our parks and neighborhoods into dangerous killing fields, and elect Commissioners that support safe and non-lethal solutions. This is the only way to stop this insanity.
In addition, I think a petition demanding that the PGC approve safe deer contraception and sterilization deer management programs in Mt. Lebanon and other densely populated and developed communities where it's not safe to bow hunt or shoot rifles might be the type of petition we should consider implementing.
So IMO, the strategy to stop Mt. Lebanon from turning our parks and neighborhoods into dangerous, inhumane, and ineffective killing fields is to focus on electing Commissioners who oppose lethal and support non-lethal methods, and to petition the PGC to approve non-lethal solutions. We need to win on both battle fronts.
2:40 is right. We don't need petitions, how many times does it take to learn that petitions don't do anything?
A 4,000 signature petition was presented to the school board to stop and reevaluate the high school project.
The leadership's response, screw your 4,000 signatures we heard from 4,001 people that are in favor of the plan, although they never showed any hard evidence to prove their number.
On thermometer claimed a petition that asked people- "do you support deer management" as a mandate for their corral & kill.
The petition with far more signatures asking for a stop to the cull was dismissed.
Want to affect change- change the people in charge, not the wording in a petition.
12:20 PM, I'm encouraging people to gather signatures. You'll always find people here in Mt. Lebanon who try to discourage change. It is easier to say that it won't make a difference than it is to try to make a difference. Go for it! I am.
Elaine
Does anybody know if there is ANYONE that has authority over the PA Game Commission? Or are they a law (entirely) unto themselves, free to make ALL their own policy and to ignore anyone or anything that conflicts with their stated purpose for existence? Someone is going to have to be able to apply pressure on them; we're not likely to get anywhere by ASKING the organization that exists to promote killing to ban any form(s) of killing out of the goodness of its own heart. IF there is no one who can direct them to pay attention to the wishes of the citizens, then I'm all in favor of petitioning our County officials to take our demands to the PGC for us. There MUST be places where the County could apply pressure to the Game Commission--and I'm pretty sure they could find them.
Here is where to apply pressure: the 8 person governor appointed game commission board. The member from this area was against mt lebo's trap and shoot.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=562941&mode=2
5:26 PM I'm not saying that we don't need petitions or that they are useless. I think the petition that was launched to stop the cull in Mt. Lebanon was quite effective. It didn't directly stop the cull, but it garnered major media attention, and it flooded the Commissioners with 4,000 emails. So it met my expectations. And it's still getting signatures. That said, it is just one tool of many.
However, I do agree with your bottom line, i.e. "change the people in charge." That's the only way to affect change in Mt. Lebanon and anywhere else. At the end of day, this is all about politics.
Elaine, 6:46 PM. My lord, I'm not trying to discourage change. However, I am saying think your strategy through and implement the appropriate strategy to affect real change. Work smart, not stupid. Encouraging people to invest their time and energy getting signatures on a petition requesting Allegheny County to ban trap-and-kill is not that smart, because Allegheny County doesn't have the authority to ban trap-and-kill, and it won't stop Mt. Lebanon from implementing a deer killing program in the fall, or put pressure on the PGC to approve sterilization or contraception. That said, if you think this makes sense, Go for it! However, it will be more difficult to ask people the next time you need them to walk the streets to get signatures on a petition that will actually help stop the use of lethal weapons and killing in Mt. Lebanon, and get the PGC to approve safe and non-lethal alternatives.
March 25, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Fed-up with Gardeners. Smart thinking and good question. We need to know who has the power to affect change, or we are just spinning in circles going nowhere. The PGC is a very powerful state agency, that has passed and enforced regulations that are unconstitutional, i.e. hunter harassment as one example. That stupid law should not supersede freedom of speech, but it needs to be challenged at the State Supreme Court level. Check out Jan Haagensen's legal efforts on this front at the two links below.
Hunter Harassment Law is Unconstitutional
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0XZWPoJgfs
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania v. Janice Haagensen :: ACLU of ...
www.aclupa.org/our-work/legal/.../commonwealthofpennsylvania/
I believe the Pennsylvania General Assembly, i.e. the State Senate and House of Representatives oversees the PGC, and so the state representatives can put some pressure on the PGC. For example, State Rep. Dan Miller, State Senator, Matt Smith, and State Rep. John Maher. All three of these state reps have said that they support non-lethal deer management solutions. So if we had a majority of Mt. Lebanon Commissioners that asked for their support in getting sterilization or contraception approved for Mt. Lebanon with no stupid stipulation of hunting as a prerequisite, then I'm very confident that we could get it approved.
In addition, I think the Governor. might have some direct authority over who gets appointed to the PGC Board of Commission, but we need to look into that appointment process again. The reason that this is important is that to affect change at the PGC, with need to change the makeup of the Board. This Board has always been made up of all hunters, mostly men, and mostly white. They do not represent all the different stake holders of wildlife in PA. They don't represent non-hunting outdoor enthusiasts, which actually spend more money on the outdoors economy than hunters, and they don't represent conservation minded citizens that are wildlife advocates, or the regular Mt. Lebanon resident, etc. So we need to make the PGC Board a more democratic representation of all Pennsylvanians, and not a Board that only views hunters as their constituents. This also means that we need to change the funding of the PGC, so that it's not funded by any one stakeholder group. The PGC has to evolve to survive, i.e. the hunter numbers are dropping nation and state wide pretty significantly over the last decade.
March 25, 2015 at 7:28 PM
The PGC Board Commissioner for Allegheny County is Rober Schlemmer. If he was against Mt. Lebo's trap and shoot, I'm sure that's because he supports bow-hunting in Mt. Lebanon, and he wants to turn our parks and back yards into a private and public hunting club for his hunter constituents. Just read his profile.
Again, this is the point. The reason that most hunters might opposed trap-and-kill is because Wildlife Specialists was killing the deer that they want to kill in our parks and backyards. There are only a few credible hunters that oppose trap-and-kill because it's animal cruelty. Just read the Post-Gazette, Trib, and Almanac comment threads. Out of all of those comments, I've only seen one hunter post against trap-and-kill on ethical reasons, and that's the one hunter from Mt. Lebanon.
It's the same issue with canned hunts. You would think most hunters would oppose canned hunts, because there is no "fair chase" involved, which is supposed to be a basic "ethical" principle of hunting. Canned hunts is like having someone tie a deer or bear to a tree so that you can go in and shoot him, and then put the deer's head on your wall or bear rug on the floor and act like you are a great hunter. Of course, you pay a nice canned hunting fee for this guarantee animal kill. So you would think that most hunters would opposed canned hunts. However, the few hunters that stood up against canned hunts, stood alone and were basically ostracized by the "sportsmen" associations and their peers.
In addition, how many hunters would be willing to sign a petition banning "hunting" in a urban or suburban park; i.e. this isn't really hunting, but just killing a tame deer that walks right up to you? It's no different than a canned hunt.
How many hunters would be willing to sign a petition banning bow hunting, because it's animal cruelty, with over 50% wounding and crippling rates? If you can get five hunters to sign a petition, I'll buy you dinner.
Furthermore, I would argue that the "ethical" principal of "fair chase" is a total ruse. What chance does a deer have when you can blow his heart out with a .3006 from 300 yards away? Or what chance does a deer have when you've been putting bait out before hunting season or plant a food plot that attract the deer to a bait site right below your tree stand. In addition, many hunter put up a trail camera to take pictures so he knows exactly what time the big buck comes every day to eat, so he knows what time to climb up in the tree stand to kill him. There is no "fair chase" in hunting these days. The deer don't have a chance. And it's not a "sport", because the deer are not willing participants. If you could arm the deer or bear to shoot back, and it was a fair fight, there wouldn't be a hunter in the woods.
This is my opinion. I'm an ex-hunter, that hunted for many years.
I'll be sitting in my tree stand next fall just off the Mt Lebo Municipal boundary cleaning up after Benner, can't wait. 7:28 I'm as fair chase as you'll ever get but in the end filling the freezer and making lots of jerky for family and friends is my goal.
Shame you quit hunting, most likely you have quit a lot of things during your life. A lot of people enjoy spending time outdoors never shooting a shot. I can tell YOU have never taken the time to plant a food plot and provide habit for rabbits, birds and many other creatures that would use a food plot. Bet you have never planted a tree for wildlife, have you. The oaks I planted have been providing acorns for wildlife for years now .... and guess what, I've never shot one animal with an acorn in it's mouth.
I am surrounded with great karma brother, quite healthy and happy doing what I do!
I would also join forces with the League of Women Voters in this area. They regularly send representatives to Harrisburg to advocate on a number of issues.
http://lwvpgh.org
9:59 AM, just a heads up, but the angry grandmother is quite active in the League of Women Voters.
Elaine
10:10 am Aww... man... I expect my deer-mares to return now.
League of Women Voters... aren't they the same ladies that control which audience questions get to be asked at the "Meet the Candidates" nights.
Though it doesn't matter too much because only 30 people or so attend those informative sessions.
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