With Benner putting out corn for the last 3 weeks or so one would think we'd see a sudden spike in deaths and injuries from accidents occurring with thousands of deer crossing roads to get at the smorgasbord.
Has anyone seen anybody trucking in bales of hay to cover the corrals' floors? How many bales does it take to cover an 8' x 8' space? That's part of Benner's approved contract.
Wow! From the outside looking in, does the police chief, the so-called wildlife scientist, and the members of the board realize how bad they are making the whole town of Mt. Lebanon look to the rest of the free world???
From what I can see, they attempted to treat the town's citizens as if they had no rights, no voice, no business getting "in the way". By any chance, are the towns roots associated with communist Russia? Is Vladimir himself a member of the board there?
Talk about politics gone wrong! I was honestly hoping to find something positive to post to support those who are just trying to "do their jobs" or "follow their marching orders", but this is clearly a catastrophic failure of leadership in a community.
Sorry guys, I hope all can get on the same page and realize that opening up one's mind and taking in the whole picture "might" lead to a positive resolution for all sides of this debate. Being railroaded by City Hall... that just doesn't make sense where wildlife AND PUBLIC SAFETY is concerned. Are they really going to shoot rifles that close to schools and churches? Where are the Feds in all of this chaos and confusion with Federal Laws?
Everyone deserves a pat on the back for Day One, but this is just the start.
Benner will be under pressure to produce. Likely some numbers inside of 72 hours. Tonight is a crummy night to be out, and they will take advantage of that. Nothing illegal about a midnight or later trip to the store to get milk or formula. If that trip happens to go by a few of the sites...
Think like the 70's Steelers Defense. ALL parts are important. All positions. All aspects. Nothing fancy, just always be there.
10:49 WPXI says it was not successful from a protest point of view in their write up. The story will be on the news at 11. The commissioners are reportedly moving ahead with this contract and will discuss other options in the future.
Who can pull all nighters for the rest of the month?
WPXI had a picture of a huge banner that said in red: "Mt Lebanon Commissioners Murderers"from this evening's protest and then they changed the photo to a deer.
Since Mt Lebanon doesn't own the wildlife, non-residents should have the opportunity to comment on this issue.
Here is a 20 minute video that explains the principal of law known as public trust doctrine, which protects public access to wildlife now and into the future.
Natural resources belong to all of citizenry -- not the commissioners, Wildlife Specialists, or the gardeners.
"The board spent more than two years educating itself about deer control, Commissioner John Bendel said. The board decided the cull was the best course of action to address an increase in car-deer collisions, animal control calls more than doubling and complaints from residents."
Did anyone "learn" about luring deer into corrals and shooting them in the head in public parks over these past 2 years?
What would happen if people nonchalantly walked along the borders of these cull locations/parks and just happened to throw apples into the boundaries? Would that draw deer away from the death traps?
I'd guess there are cameras aplenty around the "death corrals for a better community" and doing anything nearby might invoke the wrath of the MTL SCAPP* forces. If someone accidentally dropped an apple they were eating elsewhere in the park though...
In the old days, we might be up watching Linda Ellerbee talking about a suburb torn apart by a flower food feud, trying to repeat that quietly amidst the chilly fog
I'm sitting in the dark at 6:25 AM, on my laptop. I occasionally see my neighbors passing by, walking to the T. And then it hit me. People are out and it is still dark outside! The Benner boys could be still killing! OMG! Elaine
I'm sorry that I'm all over the place and haven't collected my thoughts enough to make a post of last night's meeting, but the meeting was overwhelming to me. Between interviews and meeting so many wonderful people, my thoughts are scattered.
More things came out last night. Feller couldn't respond to the requirement of straw being in the death traps or give any information about elevated platforms being used. A question was raised about the increased police presence guarding the corn. Someone even used the words "corn patrol." How much are we paying our police in overtime?
One Ward 1 resident spoke and told John Bendel not to come down his street, asking for his vote, because he wasn't going to vote for him. He is a hunter and explained to us about what hunters think about the Game Commission. John Bendel is hoping to get reelected and last night, he did himself no favors.
Steve Silverman was put on the hotseat. Remember how he was in favor of the toxic turf because it would increase Gatorade sales? A resident said that people are boycotting local restaurants and shops and avoiding Mt. Lebanon altogether because of this horrific plan of theirs.
Marilyn Narey, the head of the prokill movement, spoke about the democratic process, the pro vs. anti-kill speakers of past meetings, and the history of her pro-kill movement. She demanded that her timeline of the pro-kill movement be posted on the municipal website. Good luck with that, Marilyn. Elaine
At last evening's meeting, I was slightly disappointed that I heard no passion from the few pro-kill people who spoke. One bland monotone after the other. What a bunch of fuddy-duddies. Hosta, yes Hosta.
If someone has to be present to lower the corral gates, are they really remotely controlled by text mesage, or is it a short range method like infrared? What are the equipment specifications being used here? What if a deer gets stuck under the gate? Will it be shot or set free?
7:49, all good questions. Because I doubt though anyone on this blog would know the answers, I would recommend sending your questions over to Mr. Feller. I sent quite a few already this morning asking about the straw, the platforms, the amended permit and some others. Some of the questions I sent were asked last evening but could not be answered. My takeaway was that no one from the municipality was overseeing this program in making sure all conditions of the contract and the permit are strictly followed. My big concern is the platforms and how those will be used in making sure the bullets are fired in a downward angle. Let us know what you hear back.
Regarding the straw or any other matter, holding them to the plan doesn't matter. The high school was suppose to come in around $100,000,000, most likely even under that. See it happening? The municipal pool was suppose to be how much? The plastic turf... how much? Garbage collection... Is that any better? Twin Hills and McNeilly were suppose to add how many sports fields. Benner was paid $12,000 to advise us on how to control the deer population. Let's see if this "expert" gets bags his 150 deer in the allotted time.
I can understand why OSHA would be concerned especially if you're shooting high powered rifles using night optics off of a stepladder.
What I find disturbing Elaine, I believe it was 3 of the 5 commissioners who were against sharpshooting even with fragmented bullets now think it's ok to sharp shoot with regular bullets but didn't have an answer as to what was being used as platforms (if platforms were being used at all) to make sure the the bullets go toward the ground and not in a straight line towards someones house or a school which is what they were against in the first place. The mindset of some of these commissioners is embarrassing.
The only "passion" I hear from the pro-kill people is their passion for greed and power. They are soulless drones that support the corruption and heartless leaders of this community. It's a shame they were not raised properly to respect the world around us. Now the rest of us have to try to hold together the severely severed seams of our town that they continue to rip apart.
I walked out of the small meeting room dumbfounded at Commissioner Bendel's behavior towards Commissioner Fraasch. I hope he doesn't treat all females the way he did with her last night. The bigger joke was hearing him ramble about goals for 45 minutes and continue rambling in the meeting in the bigger room. No one cares John! I can't even remember what you talked about.
I was around in the days of the turf and watched the majority of the Commission pick on the minority of the Commission with tactics, trickery and scum bag politics. John Bendel took the lead last night!
During the discussion meeting, when Kelly pointed out that the Virginia Manor Historical preservation group had gone over budget, Feller immediately shoved that aside saying, oh they'd find that money somewhere… No problem. But when Kelly wants to include a phone bank in her $4000 deer education budget, the extra cost of the phone banking is a problem… And they rambled on fairly aimlessly at times during the meeting, then Kelly gets told to watch the time once she gets to start on her deer ed presentation, late. Oh Mt Lebanon, what a mess, what a terrible, terrible commission... To be so openly rude to Kelly in a room packed with people who support her? Who the hell do these guys think they are? This only makes me wonder how they treat her behind the scenes or how they treated her when the dozen pro-cull people were packing (not) their meetings. Vote them out! Shame them out of town.
Didn't attend last night's meeting but have attended enough of them and spoken to ccommissioners face-to-face to believe that Bendel's performance was probably pretty much as described here. Can only say one thing— Hey Bendel, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!
As an individual from a nearby community looking in due to the extremely upsetting nature of this horrific bait, corral and shoot with intent on killing indiscriminately with enthusiasm, I must say I feel for the decent Mt. Lebanon residents. I and every person I know whi has been following this fiasco consistently, is shocked and appalled by the behavior, attitudes, greed, insensitivity and bloodlust shown by your Commissioners and the pro kill residents. This not only affects Mt. Lebanon but surrounding communities as well. Our deer, with whom we have no problem, are being lured into your community to be coldly and brutally slaughtered. We feel your pain and are sickened beyond belief. Yoy have the suppirt of many folks in surrounding communities who are not pro kill for the soul reason of accomplishing an obviously hidden agenda. So many of us cannot wait until this is over as many of us are extremely upset and cant sleep but an hour or so a night, knowing what your supposed leaders and a handful of souless, compassionless residents are doing to the poor creatures. It was not necessary. Obviously personal and selfish reasons are in play. It's a shame the devent residents who have sone intelligence are paying the price of Mt. Lebanon's reputation going downhill so quick. Let's all keep trying to save these deer!
51 comments:
With Benner putting out corn for the last 3 weeks or so one would think we'd see a sudden spike in deaths and injuries from accidents occurring with thousands of deer crossing roads to get at the smorgasbord.
Excellent. We got to keep this going Whatever it takes to protect these deer
Has anyone seen anybody trucking in bales of hay to cover the corrals' floors?
How many bales does it take to cover an 8' x 8' space?
That's part of Benner's approved contract.
Sweet!
:)
With the rain we are having those corrals are going to be a sea of mud, corn and deer saliva.
Which reminds me:
DOESN'T PUTTING FOOD ON THE GROUND ATTRACT RATS?????
Wow! From the outside looking in, does the police chief, the so-called wildlife scientist, and the members of the board realize how bad they are making the whole town of Mt. Lebanon look to the rest of the free world???
From what I can see, they attempted to treat the town's citizens as if they had no rights, no voice, no business getting "in the way". By any chance, are the towns roots associated with communist Russia? Is Vladimir himself a member of the board there?
Talk about politics gone wrong! I was honestly hoping to find something positive to post to support those who are just trying to "do their jobs" or "follow their marching orders", but this is clearly a catastrophic failure of leadership in a community.
Sorry guys, I hope all can get on the same page and realize that opening up one's mind and taking in the whole picture "might" lead to a positive resolution for all sides of this debate. Being railroaded by City Hall... that just doesn't make sense where wildlife AND PUBLIC SAFETY is concerned. Are they really going to shoot rifles that close to schools and churches? Where are the Feds in all of this chaos and confusion with Federal Laws?
9:45
Please refer to page 1 of the Deer Trapping Contract 1-29-2015 on the Mt. Lebanon website: http://mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/View/10757
"The ground inside the corral will be covered in straw, to facilitate clean up at the end of activities."
Everyone deserves a pat on the back for Day One, but this is just the start.
Benner will be under pressure to produce. Likely some numbers inside of 72 hours. Tonight is a crummy night to be out, and they will take advantage of that. Nothing illegal about a midnight or later trip to the store to get milk or formula. If that trip happens to go by a few of the sites...
Think like the 70's Steelers Defense. ALL parts are important. All positions. All aspects. Nothing fancy, just always be there.
We can do this.
Mt. Lebanon rodent control
http://www.mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?NID=160
Was the meeting a success for us or not??
I just want to say thanks to the protesters. You all rock.
We're still hearing Citizen Comments.
Elaine
10:49 WPXI says it was not successful from a protest point of view in their write up. The story will be on the news at 11. The commissioners are reportedly moving ahead with this contract and will discuss other options in the future.
Who can pull all nighters for the rest of the month?
WPXI had a picture of a huge banner that said in red:
"Mt Lebanon Commissioners Murderers"from this evening's protest and then they changed the photo to a deer.
#politics
Channel 4 news just said the cull will go regardless until 3/31
Are ther more anti cull or pro cull at the meeting Elaine?
Kristen isn't here tonight. As far if it is a success, we all know that the male commissioners aren't listening.
A 13 year old student and tax payer asked Steve Feller if he was supposed to stay out of parks until April 1.
Steve Feller told us that there will be multiple locations of corrals/traps within the five parks. He would NOT disclose their specific locations.
Citizen comments ended at 11:05 PM. Nonresidents were not permitted to speak. There was a majority vote not to permit non residents to speak.
The cull has not started.
-Steve Feller
It doesn't start until a deer is killed.
Elaine
Does this mean more than one corral per location or five total?
PG says Benner can use five people. That might mean one at each site to close corral gates and kill as quickly as possible.
Feller not telling parents what locations to keep curious children away from is contemptible, but not surprising.
Everyone is getting a good look at governments "serving" their citizens.
Since Mt Lebanon doesn't own the wildlife, non-residents should have the opportunity to comment on this issue.
Here is a 20 minute video that explains the principal of law known as public trust doctrine, which protects public access to wildlife now and into the future.
Natural resources belong to all of citizenry -- not the commissioners, Wildlife Specialists, or the gardeners.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1VFz6g6qo
From the Trib:
"The board spent more than two years educating itself about deer control, Commissioner John Bendel said. The board decided the cull was the best course of action to address an increase in car-deer collisions, animal control calls more than doubling and complaints from residents."
Did anyone "learn" about luring deer into corrals and shooting them in the head in public parks over these past 2 years?
Read more: http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/7909440-74/deer-culling-lebanon#ixzz3U2ratznu
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/03/10/mt-lebanon-commissioners-deer-culling-plan-is-in-best-interest-of-community/
Write-up seems fair and objective.
Bendel should be reminded that some people approve of bowhunting over his death corrals. Both are lethal, one is mind-blowingly cruel.
Were 3 new sites added to this "best interests of the community" plan to slaughter the deer population and horrify every child in Mt Lebanon?
I read this on CBS.
He's still only 12, Elaine! :) He's still dismayed that he asked a direct question and they didn't answer him.
12:05 AM, Kelly said yes. I guess that is what it means. No kids in parks until April 1.
11:35 PM, I asked for clarification and Feller kept saying that they MAY have up to eight corrals total.
Elaine
I know who Carrie Steel is too. Others figured it out too.
Elaine
Heads up! Call in radio show tomorrow on the deer massacre with host PG's John Hayes and others
http://wesa.fm/post/essential-pittsburgh-controversial-approach-deer-control-mt-lebanon
Show supposed to be at noon, call in a bit before to get in the queue
Someone please double-check times and call-in numbers
Stay safe and protect our deer!!!
What would happen if people nonchalantly walked along the borders of these cull locations/parks and just happened to throw apples into the boundaries? Would that draw deer away from the death traps?
I'd guess there are cameras aplenty around the "death corrals for a better community" and doing anything nearby might invoke the wrath of the MTL SCAPP* forces. If someone accidentally dropped an apple they were eating elsewhere in the park though...
*Special Corn and Pee Patrol
It's quiet out there now...
In the old days, we might be up watching Linda Ellerbee talking about a suburb torn apart by a flower food feud, trying to repeat that quietly amidst the chilly fog
I'm sitting in the dark at 6:25 AM, on my laptop. I occasionally see my neighbors passing by, walking to the T. And then it hit me. People are out and it is still dark outside! The Benner boys could be still killing! OMG!
Elaine
I'm sorry that I'm all over the place and haven't collected my thoughts enough to make a post of last night's meeting, but the meeting was overwhelming to me. Between interviews and meeting so many wonderful people, my thoughts are scattered.
More things came out last night. Feller couldn't respond to the requirement of straw being in the death traps or give any information about elevated platforms being used. A question was raised about the increased police presence guarding the corn. Someone even used the words "corn patrol." How much are we paying our police in overtime?
One Ward 1 resident spoke and told John Bendel not to come down his street, asking for his vote, because he wasn't going to vote for him. He is a hunter and explained to us about what hunters think about the Game Commission. John Bendel is hoping to get reelected and last night, he did himself no favors.
Steve Silverman was put on the hotseat. Remember how he was in favor of the toxic turf because it would increase Gatorade sales? A resident said that people are boycotting local restaurants and shops and avoiding Mt. Lebanon altogether because of this horrific plan of theirs.
Marilyn Narey, the head of the prokill movement, spoke about the democratic process, the pro vs. anti-kill speakers of past meetings, and the history of her pro-kill movement. She demanded that her timeline of the pro-kill movement be posted on the municipal website. Good luck with that, Marilyn.
Elaine
On NPR today. Essential Pittsburgh: A Controversial Approach to Deer Control in Mt. Lebanon
Elaine
At last evening's meeting, I was slightly disappointed that I heard no passion from the few pro-kill people who spoke. One bland monotone after the other. What a bunch of fuddy-duddies.
Hosta, yes Hosta.
If someone has to be present to lower the corral gates, are they really remotely controlled by text mesage, or is it a short range method like infrared?
What are the equipment specifications being used here?
What if a deer gets stuck under the gate? Will it be shot or set free?
7:49, all good questions. Because I doubt though anyone on this blog would know the answers, I would recommend sending your questions over to Mr. Feller. I sent quite a few already this morning asking about the straw, the platforms, the amended permit and some others. Some of the questions I sent were asked last evening but could not be answered. My takeaway was that no one from the municipality was overseeing this program in making sure all conditions of the contract and the permit are strictly followed. My big concern is the platforms and how those will be used in making sure the bullets are fired in a downward angle. Let us know what you hear back.
Nick M.
Regarding the straw or any other matter, holding them to the plan doesn't matter.
The high school was suppose to come in around $100,000,000, most likely even under that. See it happening?
The municipal pool was suppose to be how much?
The plastic turf... how much?
Garbage collection... Is that any better?
Twin Hills and McNeilly were suppose to add how many sports fields.
Benner was paid $12,000 to advise us on how to control the deer population. Let's see if this "expert" gets bags his 150 deer in the allotted time.
Nick, OSHA would like to know more about those elevated platforms, as well.
Who do we call for the deer kill? 911?
Elaine
I can understand why OSHA would be concerned especially if you're shooting high powered rifles using night optics off of a stepladder.
What I find disturbing Elaine, I believe it was 3 of the 5 commissioners who were against sharpshooting even with fragmented bullets now think it's ok to sharp shoot with regular bullets but didn't have an answer as to what was being used as platforms (if platforms were being used at all) to make sure the the bullets go toward the ground and not in a straight line towards someones house or a school which is what they were against in the first place. The mindset of some of these commissioners is embarrassing.
Nick M.
The only "passion" I hear from the pro-kill people is their passion for greed and power. They are soulless drones that support the corruption and heartless leaders of this community. It's a shame they were not raised properly to respect the world around us. Now the rest of us have to try to hold together the severely severed seams of our town that they continue to rip apart.
What was John's problem tonight?
A code of respect was lost on him tonight.
I walked out of the small meeting room dumbfounded at Commissioner Bendel's behavior towards Commissioner Fraasch. I hope he doesn't treat all females the way he did with her last night.
The bigger joke was hearing him ramble about goals for 45 minutes and continue rambling in the meeting in the bigger room. No one cares John! I can't even remember what you talked about.
I was around in the days of the turf and watched the majority of the Commission pick on the minority of the Commission with tactics, trickery and scum bag politics. John Bendel took the lead last night!
That's usually Brumfelds job, with Linfante backing him up!
7:49. It appears Benner is using MODIFIED HOG TRAPS on deer.
http://www.jagerpro.com/hog-control/mine-trapping.aspx
compare to the picture posted earlier: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-I8pzhcyhsJs/VP7onTXEeBI/AAAAAAAACXE/zdas885DZlg/s1600/screen-capture.png
Nowhere on Jager Pro's site is there ANY mention of using it on deer. Benner may have modified it by making the corral and gate taller for deer.
Jager has a COMPLETE set of videos, explaining all aspects of this system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da1zUY0nqMs
Benner, the "expert", appears to be using equipment designed for hogs.
During the discussion meeting, when Kelly pointed out that the Virginia Manor Historical preservation group had gone over budget, Feller immediately shoved that aside saying, oh they'd find that money somewhere… No problem. But when Kelly wants to include a phone bank in her $4000 deer education budget, the extra cost of the phone banking is a problem… And they rambled on fairly aimlessly at times during the meeting, then Kelly gets told to watch the time once she gets to start on her deer ed presentation, late. Oh Mt Lebanon, what a mess, what a terrible, terrible commission... To be so openly rude to Kelly in a room packed with people who support her? Who the hell do these guys think they are? This only makes me wonder how they treat her behind the scenes or how they treated her when the dozen pro-cull people were packing (not) their meetings. Vote them out! Shame them out of town.
Didn't attend last night's meeting but have attended enough of them and spoken to ccommissioners face-to-face to believe that Bendel's performance was probably pretty much as described here.
Can only say one thing— Hey Bendel, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!
As an individual from a nearby community looking in due to the extremely upsetting nature of this horrific bait, corral and shoot with intent on killing indiscriminately with enthusiasm, I must say I feel for the decent Mt. Lebanon residents. I and every person I know whi has been following this fiasco consistently, is shocked and appalled by the behavior, attitudes, greed, insensitivity and bloodlust shown by your Commissioners and the pro kill residents. This not only affects Mt. Lebanon but surrounding communities as well. Our deer, with whom we have no problem, are being lured into your community to be coldly and brutally slaughtered. We feel your pain and are sickened beyond belief. Yoy have the suppirt of many folks in surrounding communities who are not pro kill for the soul reason of accomplishing an obviously hidden agenda. So many of us cannot wait until this is over as many of us are extremely upset and cant sleep but an hour or so a night, knowing what your supposed leaders and a handful of souless, compassionless residents are doing to the poor creatures. It was not necessary. Obviously personal and selfish reasons are in play. It's a shame the devent residents who have sone intelligence are paying the price of Mt. Lebanon's reputation going downhill so quick. Let's all keep trying to save these deer!
Has anyone yet called HSUS and and PETA about the hog traps?
I am 11:52. Please excuse any typos. Thumbs just too big for the keyboard.
12:34. I don't believe I have ever heard a politician admit they were wrong.
They will spend your money, all of it if necessary, trying to prove they are right.
You people live in your own reality-
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