Historically, the IRS has considered volunteer firefighters employees for tax purposes, regardless of whether they receive compensation, said Douglas Smith, managing shareholder of Downtown law firm Jackson Lewis PC.
Unless the agency updates its ruling or the regulations that are being written specifically exclude volunteer firefighters, “they're going to have to provide insurance to a group of volunteers,” he said.
Mt. Lebanon's staff of 17 paid firefighters is supplemented by about 50 volunteer firefighters, Chief Nick Sohyda said.
While Sohyda said he's “not panicking” over the situation yet, he said he will have to track the hours of all volunteers to make sure they are serving fewer than 30 hours a week — the threshold above which workers are considered full-time under the law and eligible for health insurance. That task alone would be difficult and costly, he said.
“What most fire companies would do is limit the number of hours to keep them under the threshold,” he said.Three commissioners had no problem allocating $637,400 from the unassigned funds on Tuesday evening for artificial turf at Middle and Wildcat Fields. In fact, the Commission is considering borrowing $900,000 for storm sewer repairs on Longuevue, Marlin, and Mapleton. But our new Finance Director Andrew McCreery suggested adding that to the new $4 million bond issue that the Commission will be voting on this year for a new roof for the municipal building and maintenance for both parking garages. The money from the storm water fee can go toward the storm sewer repairs portion of the bond issue. It is unclear to me why the revenue from parking isn't going toward the parking garages.
The good news is that no money is being spent on deer culling this year. Kristen Linfante was not happy about that decision. Mt. Lebanon OKs $32.82M Budget
I was unable to attend the commission meeting on Tuesday evening, but the video is online here.
88 comments:
Are you saying that Mount Lebanon would rather artificially turf fields instead of providing health insurance to those who donate their time and risk their lives for their hometown ?
Yep. That's correct. Why can BW draw over 300 angry residents to public meetings TWICE in two weeks, and we just let the school board and commission do whatever pleases them? Baldwin-Whitehall school board gets more heat about Martin Schmotzer's job
Elaine
Why, you ask? Because the residents of BW are mostly working stiffs who understand the value of a buck, while Mt. Lebanon residents are mostly professional civil servants who spend other people's money and wouldn't know a moral issue if they woke up in bed with one.
12:52 where is the evidence that most lebo residents are civil servants? Where do you get your information?
Why would the task of insuring that all of the volunteers are serving fewer than 30 hours a week be difficult and costly? Doesn't the fire department already keep track of the hours the volunteers are serving? Does anyone know the answer to this?
Here's the actual breakdown for Mt. Lebanon. A lot of lawyers, sales, management professionals and top executives:
Lawyers (8%)
Sales representatives, services, wholesale and manufacturing (7%)
Other management occupations except farmers and farm managers (7%)
Other sales and related workers including supervisors (5%)
Top executives (5%)
Computer specialists (4%)
Physicians and surgeons (4%)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Mount-Lebanon-Pennsylvania.html#ixzz2nHtgWQxs
Baldwin has a four-way first place tie with truck drivers, sales, management, and mechanics:
Driver/sales workers and truck drivers (5%)
Other management occupations except farmers and farm managers (5%)
Other sales and related workers including supervisors (5%)
Electrical equipment mechanics and other installation, maintenance, and repair occupations including supervisors (5%)
Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (4%)
Sales representatives, services, wholesale and manufacturing (4%)
Other production occupations including supervisors (4%)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Baldwin-Pennsylvania.html#ixzz2nHu2aQ2B
I am not sure where "education" or teachers go but we have a lot of those too.
Here's the way this taxpayer sees it...
"Three commissioners had no problem allocating $637,400 from the unassigned funds on Tuesday evening for artificial turf at Middle and Wildcat Fields. In fact, the Commission is considering borrowing$900,000 for storm sewer repairs on Longuevue, Marlin, and Mapleton. But our new Finance Director Andrew McCreery suggested adding that to the new $4 million bond issue that the Commission will be voting on this year for a new roof for the municipal building and maintenance for both parking garages. The money from the storm water fee can go toward the storm sewer repairs portion of the bond issue. It is unclear to me why the revenue from parking isn't going toward the parking garages."
I think our lovely commissioners get tied up too much in semantics.
Unassigned funds like the $637,400 aren't really unassigned funds- mad money for the commissioners to play with as they wish.
That's taxpayers money that one would hope are 'rainy day funds' for fixing unexpected problems like storm sewer problems or leaky roofs or much needed pedestrian crossing enhancements.
It wasn't given so the commissioners could go out and buy fashionable amenities... like turf, just because a small group thinks they absolutely, positivelyhave to have it.
Fix the storm sewers comissioners, fix the leaky roofs, then and only then splurge on stuff like turf, climbing walls and doggie parks.
We've existed for over 100 years without them... we can go a few more and survive.
Or let those that think they're a necessity donate them to the community.
1:31, are you suggesting the fire chief is lying or incompetent?
You mean the Commission and senior staff knew about this, kept it quiet in budget reviews and used carryover fund surplus for turf instead of the probable med insurance coverage requirement for volunteer firemen ?
If that's the case, we should storm 710 Washington Rd. and throw the bums out !
Just curious, but does Mt. Lebanon actually have volunteer firemen who work more then 30 hours in a week? While I realize that it's possible, it would seem unlikely in the sense that most of these volunteers have other full time jobs and volunteer through the fire department as a way to give back to the community or because of their interest in fire fighting. Not as a "full time" volunteer. With 17 full time fire fighters, I'd be surprised if there were more then say 1 or 2 who log 30 hours or more in a week.
2:42, its not guaranteed we'll have to provide medical coverage for volunteer fireman, but if we must isn't that what unassigned funds are for?
Next year they're counting on so far incollecyed unassigned funds for turf.
If thatsthe case, doesn't that make them assigned funds and therefore in reality a backdoor tax hike?
"While Sohyda said he's “not panicking” over the situation yet, he said he will have to track the hours of all volunteers to make sure they are serving fewer than 30 hours a week — the threshold above which workers are considered full-time under the law and eligible for health insurance. That task alone would be difficult and costly, he said. “What most fire companies would do is limit the number of hours to keep them under the threshold,” he said."
The chief he's not panicking yet, but it must be a concern for him, 2:46.
I guess if we had a huge calamity and voulunteers were called out and served diligently, they might at some point go over 30 hours.
In the middle of an emergency would the chief be required to monitor evryone's weekly hours?
"Hey Joe, your at 29.75 hours this week. Dropthat hose and go home!"
2:46 PM, wouldn't it depend on weather conditions, fires, or other emergency calls? How does one predict emergencies? To avoid paying health insurance, more will be expected from our 17 full time firefighters. Or will the department be relying on neighboring communities for back up?
Yeah, I can see it now. The realtors will be showcasing the Cedar Blvd. corridor explaining that there were cutbacks in public safety to pay for the turf and a reelected school board director questioned the "illustrious" fire dept.'s recommendations in order to afford the high school renovation.
Elaine
Heh heh heh...Oh, this is a good one.
You see our elected officials and illustrious SAB thibk there is a perpetual money tree ripe for the picking.
"Change order, no problem!"
"Leaky roof, no problem!"
Inefficient storm system, no problem.
"Climbing wall, no problem!"
"Doggie park, no problem!"
"Concerned citizens... now there is a problem! How do we shut them up and minimize their concerns?"
Most if not all of the volunteers have insurance coverage via their full time jobs..ie Dan Miller. I don't think it is an issue.
Or...
"Hey tom, forget about that woman trapped on the second floor of that burning home! Fifteen more minutes of volunteerism and I'll have to buy you health insurance!"
Nice 2:46, stay myopic.
4:34 PM, Not ALL.
Elaine
"The effect could be blunted, however, since many volunteer firefighters have other jobs, which may provide insurance, he said." -Chief Nick Sohyda
Some random thoughts...
If a firefighter gets injured at a fire, wouldn't that be an OSHA claim? What insurance company would pay for that? How sad if a volunteer gets hurt or worse and gets no help regardless of how many hours are spent per week on the job. But it is more important to the commissioners how a ball rolls on the field along Cedar Blvd. That is where the money is spent. This is criminal.
Commissioners Kluck and Fraasch did not agree with the turfing of Middle and Wildcat and wanted to approve the budget excluding the $637,400. It didn't fly.
2:42 PM and 2:27 PM, It doesn't matter. There is nothing that can be done about it. Mt. Lebanon just rolls over. I watched Matt Kluck's wonderful tribute at the beginning of the meeting and wondered if the same could be said for some of the others. I don't think so.
Elaine
Grrr, I meant workman's comp, not OSHA.
Elaine
If part time volunteer firemen/firewomen are not salaried or paid wages & salary and have no other Muni-paid benefits other than some on-duty meals & overnight lodging on occasion, are they really subject to the 30 hour/week rule ?
"Historically, the IRS has considered volunteer firefighters employees for tax purposes, regardless of whether they receive compensation, said Douglas Smith, managing shareholder of Downtown law firm Jackson Lewis PC. "
11:32, are you questioning information provided by a law firm? How dare you! That just isn't acceptable behavior here in the bubble.
6:46 AM, LAWYERS ARE TRAINED TO SPEAK OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF THEIR MOUTHS, TAKE A PRO OR CON SIDE OF ANY ISSUE, WHOMEVER OR WHATEVER WILL PAY THEIR BILLABLE HOURS.
I'M ASSUMING MR. SMITH'S IS AN UNSOLICITED PRO-BONO OPINION, THEREFORE REFLECTING HIS INDEPENDENT, UNBIASED LEARNED BELIEF.
Our community should be very grateful for our Volunteer Fire Fighters. We've lived in Mt Lebanon since 1976 and I have never heard a single complaint about the Fire Department. In fact, it's hybrid structure has given us the benefits of having paid fire services for the cost of a volunteer organization.
I don't support O'Bamacare. I think that O'Bamacare is going to be a disaster. But to comply with the law and to protect the volunteers who risk their lives to protect all of us I would support municipal funding to comply and to give these volunteers the medical coverage that they need.
"9:10 AM," no need for yelling. Did you not pick up on 6:46 AM's sarcasm?
Elaine
Elaine, let them yell, 9:10 presents an interesting perspective, and one I've not considered.
Can we assume, based on 9:10's point that lawyers (hint, hint) speak pro or con on a subject, say something like turf, based on their ability to profit from it? ;-) ;-)
Perhaps we have waaaaay too many firemen?
10:59, you won't feel that way if your house was on fire!
10:59 AM, I see it a little differently. Maybe we don't have enough paid firemen.
Elaine
I don't think this is such a big deal. #1, you know Obama is going to have Sebilius make changes to the health care mandate to ensure this law doesn't affect volunteer fire companies. #2, the utilization of the volunteer firefighters, while taking some time to set up out front, can be managed effectively.
Remember, the 30 hours is an average so if there are a number of calls one week that push those hours up, then you make sure those volunteers are not on-call as much in future weeks. Like I said, it takes some management but is doable. Yes, it puts an additional burden on the Chief and his managers but that is what Obamacare has done across the board. Why would it be any different for a volunteer fire organization?
If I heard correctly, Kluck or Fraasch asked specifically to pull out the turf portion of the budget so that they could vote against it. The majority of the commission (those approving turf) didn't agree with doing it that way which makes no sense. They still would have had their turf in a 3-2 vote.
The difference is that our municipality and commission are thumbing their noses toward the volunteers, who put their lives in jeopardy with every emergency call, by allocating funds to turf a beautiful, grass field so that we look better than we are. That is the difference.
Elaine
10:59, brilliant, just brilliant.
In a community with aging housing and commercial building stock, cut fire fighters.
Remember Lebo just passed its 100th year anniversay and the commissioners wanted to impliment fee based fire inspection on landlords.
On the other hand, we absolutely need more and more luxurious athletic fields for a shrinking K-12 population.
At one time the school district had a student population over 8,000 kids. Today, its under 5,300 and falling.
Your logic is brilliant, simply brilliant.
10:59, nice that you pay attention.
Didn't the fire dept. and PIO recently run a campaign soliciting for volunteers?
Plus there is this appeal.
http://mtlfd.org/about-us/recruitment/volunteer/
Pssst....we also have waaaay to many police officers.
2:02, if you said armored tank, I'd agree, but officers perhaps not.
We just had a shooting on McFarland last night.
2:16 The shooting last night certainly reinforces the idea that drugs are a serious issue and hazard everywhere in PA, even sleepy apartment buildings on McFarland Road.
2:02 PM, yes, let's scale back our police department and get rid of our volunteer fire department. It isn't the crime rate that people base their decision to relocate to Mt. Lebanon. It is fields. Turfed fields. Allocate more money for turf. Good plan.
Elaine
I'll take our dedicated volunteer firefighters over turf any day; the former reach out to the entire community and beyond; the latter is an unnecessary amenity for a few spoiled kids and their parents.
10:57PM, you meant to say, "...a few spoiled parents and their kids."
I wonder if anyone ever spontaneously asked the kids if they care if the field is turf or grass?
I'm betting on a hot, sunny summer day when the turf is hotter than helll, most of the little ones would, "I'd really rather be at the pool!"
7:59 I've asked my kids about the turf and they do not see it as essential.
In the past, I have told them their games were canceled due to weather and asked them "what are you going to do now instead?" and they say "Play!", with a smile on their faces.
The kids of this generation suffer from a lack of unstructured play due to the desire of well intentioned parents to over structure their lives with sports, sports, sports, and sometimes other additional activities.
When was the last time you saw kids in Mt Lebanon playing outside in their yards? On their bikes? Oh my - in the street?
With the turf, the kids won't get a break.
I hope you see kids sled riding and building snow people today!
Damn 10:44, if we only had turf it would be a pleasant 72 degress, sunny and a great day for soccer, lacrosse or baseball.
But because of wingnuts like you and I, we've got frigid temperatures, snow and the little ones will have to find other entertaining venues.
A day like today is a good day for mom and dad to take the kids to Costco so they can smirk at the fat, bilingual immigrants.
You know, I can do so much. Linfante, Brumfield, and Bendel have no problem designating $637,400 from 2013 unassigned funds and the balance coming from the 2014 unassigned fund balance, if there is one, on artificial turf. Not one resident spoke against their maneuver at the public hearing on Tuesday. How many of you wrote to the commission? How can Baldwin Whitehall draw more than 300 angry residents to a meeting TWICE in two weeks? These same commissioners are going to raise taxes next year to pay for another bond issue that may or may NOT go toward its intent. Why can't the unassigned funds go toward storm sewer repairs and use the storm water fee to fund the balance? Why can the storm water fee only be used if the commission is borrowing more money? We all pay $8 a month on a rain tax. The commission is spending the overtax on turf and ignoring their responsibilities; sticking it to the stakeholders, the volunteer firefighters, Harrisburg regarding the McNeilly swap, the people on Shadowlawn and the other 50 streets or so who experienced flooding listed here. Lebo Citizens search for flooding
Yet no one spoke against the commissioners' decision to allocate $750,000 through overtaxing for turf.
It is a tragic that this blog is only providing entertainment and not used as a vehicle for change in our local govt. You all let them get away with this, Folks. Nobody stops them.
Elaine
Grrr. Try this link. Search flood on Lebo Citizens
The search widget on the sidebar doesn't seem to be working properly. Try the search box at the top of the blog for additional searches.
Elaine
Gee, Washington Road looks so festive, hope the commissioners didn't blow the budget on those Christmas snow flake lights you can barely see.
I've spoken against it, Elaine. But as you've stated so many times, "I can only do so much". Unless more people take an active role in the governance and management of the community, mismanagement and poor decision-making will continue.
A number of individuals love to tout the affluence and high education of our residents. Money cant buy class or leadership ability. Further, history, both domestic and international, is replete with case studies that clealry illustrate the outcome we can expect as the result of the current Commission mindset. Were they to actually take some time to study history, they might head in a different direction.
But the fault isnt entirely theirs. The Commission only has as much leeway and authority as we all grant it. Apathy indicatedls 100 percent approval.
Yes, Jim, you have spoken many times and presented to the commission at a Discussion Session. If more people would take an active roll in our local affairs such as you have and are presently doing, we would all be better off. Thank you for all you have done, Jim.
Elaine
Sorry Elaine and Jim, but have to disagree with you on this one.
Unless you have a receptive audience, um, er, commision or board speaking up, emailing, or as we've seen presenting petitions is an effort in futility.
We had Sablegate and packed the board meetings. The state auditor criticized the SB for lack of transparency. 4,000 people signed a petition against the HS project. We had a packed town hall.
Did those efforts change anything?
Lebofields starts a petition for turfing. What it reap, 300 or so signatures?
And what is the commission doing... surprise, surprise... turfing.
Sorry, without some sort of checks and balances it's no wonder things are going the way they are.
It is not necessary to attend a Commission meeting in order to make your feelings known on any particular subject that may come before that body. I'm reasonably sure the Commission is tired of getting E-mail from me, usually with links to, or attachments of, studies from the Reason Foundation that are applicable to a particular subject.
The truth of the matter is that the members of the Commission are not bound to pay any attention to their constituents, although a couple do - or did.
What is needed in Mt. Lebanon is a new political body, completely divorced from the Democrats and Republicans, that understands the primary function of local government and the difference between "needs" and "wants." That kind of organization will take money, dedicated people, money, mass-mailings to all residents, and, oh yes, money. Right now all the political money is largely controlled by the left. Add to that the fact that two-thirds of Mt. Lebanon's registered voters sit out local elections and you get the kind of government we currently "enjoy." However, if that vast and currently unknown mass of voters could be engaged there is every reason to think that the "old socialists club" might find themselves swept away.
Here's an example.
Elaine, presented a petition with 4,000 signatures, collected by volunteers that pounded the pavement, knocked on doors in an effort to hold down the cost on the high school project.
How was it received-- Eddie Kubit pretty much said F your sticking petition! "I" personally received or talked to 4,000 and 1 people that favor the project.
He knew he didn't have to prove his statement. Knew there'd be no repurcussions if it weren't true!
He said it and the board went on its merry way.
Speaking of merry, or Mary, she announced her decision on the project prior to hearing residents comments in a required hearing. She didn't even bother to hide that constituents opinions meant nothing.
Bankruptcy is one form of a "check and balance".
Most commenters probably could really care less about tarp, turf, grass, mud or anything else that the school district is into these days! The problem is who will have to pay for all of their nonsense!
The lesson that Mt Lebanon needs to learn is as simple as that old saying, "Gas, Grass or Ass - Nobody Rides for Free!"
12:45 - excellent! Where do I sign?
One way to stop the spending on special interest projects is to illustrate what is being overlooked and can't be fixed if the money is spent elsewhere. Given the resistance, the overlooked project has to be an illegal oversight. The commission and school district seem only respond when they are cornered. Even then, it takes relentless effort and pressure.
Yep, where do we sign up?
With the high cost of the renovation project, why is there only one urinal a foot up from the floor, one toilet and one sink in the boys locker room for the new pool? I have seen three boys shaving at three different sinks at the same time in the locker room for the old pool.
The girls locker room near the pool has two toilets and one sink.
Also, the locker rooms in the basement have only one small bench able to seat two guys, in each.
This fall, are the football players expected to sit on the floor while they put on their pads? Why doesn't the wrestling mat in the wrestling room fit? There are gaps on two ends and the mat rolls up the wall on the other two ends.
With all the money spent on this project, the kids deserve better.
5:39 PM, after the third anonymous letter came out, I reread the cost reduction list where the decision was made to reuse the old wrestling mats. The reduction in sinks, toilets, and urinals was another cost saving measure.
2:49 and 3:52 PM, if you are serious, contact me.
3:30 PM, it would be helpful if you could keep track for me. I could use the help.
Elaine
An opinion for what it is worth.
To this resident it seems that polarization and divisiveness has grown to such a state that there may no longer be a Mt. Lebanon community to speak of.
Many blame Elaine, her blog and the wing nut contributors, but I wonder if there is something else at work or better yet... not working.
On the official community magazine it offers:
"about us
mtl Mt. Lebanon magazine
Trusted by the public and frequently honored by the journalism community, mtl, our not-for-profit magazine is published at no cost to taxpayers.
mtl-Mt. Lebanon magazine is published by the Mt. Lebanon Public Information Office as a non-profit source of information. Our goal is to increase the transparency of municipal government, to give you the information you need to have input into the decision-making process and to promote pride in our community, including our schools, neighborhoods, housing stock, municipal services, recreation programs and unique professional services and businesses. Because regional coverage of suburban municipalities is dwindling, a trusted source of local information such as mtl-Mt. Lebanon magazine is becoming ever more important. Our community partners know that when they request coverage or submit story ideas, we do our best to comply."
At first glance, who can argue with the magazine's mission. I applaud this initiative: "Our goal is to increase the transparency of municipal government, to give you the information you need to have input into the decision-making process"
But, on the big issues our local governing bodies are involved in can anyone point out when the magazine has given residents an unbiased, transparent synopsis of pending issues so residents can have input into the decision-making process? Are the magazine's "community partners" a little too cozy, of one political mind?
Lets look at the Wildcat/Middle Field turf proposal.
Where's the transparent, unbiased, pluses vs minuses presentation of the plan for residents?
The details on time line, financing, management, etc., etc. The public information source is mum on the issue.
Oh we'll get some sort of photo essay of how wonderful kids soccer games are or such, but there won't be any stories of parking congestion at the main park.
For this resident/taxpayer the magazine is a real community asset... if... if it were serving its intended purpose. Unfortunately, and I think the editor's grocery shopping article spotlight's the magazine's problem, its turned into something else.
Were it doing its original prime objective, we wouldn't need Lebocitizens!
Just my opinion, I'd love to hear pros or cons.
With Susan Morgans' forthcoming lawsuit against me, it won't be an issue.
It seems unfair that lebomag.com permits comments for the articles written by volunteer bloggers, but none are permitted for staff articles.
The magazine, in both print edition and digital format available on lebomag.com, the PIO social media accounts (Twitter and Facebook) and the municipal website never published the Field Enhancement Proposal by John Bendel.
The following, in my opinion, is the biggest violation. Where are the 2014 Approved or Recommended Budget Amendments?
Mt. Lebanon Official Documents
They are listed for 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013. We had to look at last week's agenda for the list of 2014 budget amendments.
You want to increase transparency of municipal government, mtl Magazine? That would have been a good beginning.
If Susan gets her way, that will be the end of any transparency of municipal government. She plans to going after Kelly Fraasch too.
Elaine
The magazine makes this claim: "Our goal is to increase the transparency of municipal government, to give you the information you need to have input into the decision-making process..."
As you point out Elaine, there is no public info on the finer points of the Bendel turf proposal. So how does the public get informed? Do all 33,000 have to attend commission meetings to get 'public information' so they can offer input.
MTL magazine is either a government information source or it isn't, Morgans can't claim to be the PIO then not present the facts.
If she wants it to be MTL People magazine, or Swirl fine, make it so. If she wants to be the community PIO, she's currently not doing the job, IMO.
She's constantly scoped by Lebocitizens.
Correction:
Whirl magazine not swirl magazine, though with certain parties propensity for bullying, maybe Swirl (as in a figurative swirlee) is more apropo.
I think Elaine is doing the PIO's job and maybe that's why she is suing her. Note to the PIO: that's not a good idea. Focus on your job.
1:12 PM, nothing has happened yet.
Elaine
1:12, that is just the point. What is the magazine's job or prime directive? Perhaps after all these years it has morphed into something far a field of its original purpose. Maybe we no longer need or want a magazine designed to increase government transparency. Perhaps we want an Oprah-styled publication and that is all-well and good if that's what the majority is looking for. Sometimes it's worth re-evaluating things.
I was told by a municipality person there's no more money from the storm water fund. It's all been spent on fixing storm water problems.
How does one spend all of a perpetually collected $8/month fee?
Ask Dave B. and he'll tell you that there is MORE money! He only has to reach in taxpayer's pockets and STEAL IT! He's a FAILED lawyer so what is a failed lawyer to do? Become a politician. And democrats are stupid enough to elect him.
Don't forget, tax exempt organizations are also paying a monthly fee - much more than $8.00/month. A suggestion might be to reduce the discount given to the school district for teaching water conservation.
Speaking of water conservation, PA Am Water awarded the Mt. Lebanon Environmental Sustainability Board a $300 grant for their Energy Camels Project. In case you missed it, the ESB rewards residents when they make documented progress in energy or water conservation. Since the PIO neglects to post the ESB minutes and agendas, we will never know who is keeping track.
Elaine
And pray tell, where does PAWC get the $300 to hand out in those grants?
5:06 PM, would you mind emailing me with the name of the municipality person who told you that?
Elaine
Like student parking fees, storm water fees can be increased at any time.
12:36--please sign your name next time. I did.
You only pointed out the behavior of the Commission and school board. My point is, where the hell is the reaction from the community? Answer: There wasn't one. Again, apathy and indifference are tacit approval for the actions of the elected offices.
We, the people, ARE the checks and balances. The way it starts is with people being involved. I'm heard my colleagues on the right decry the fact Dems have taken over Lebo. Step back and look at how: they got people involved and organized. Yes, I can drone on about some of the tactics (like using non-profits, including the PTA and various houses of worship to pass along political smears). But in the end, they rallied people. Want change in Lebo? Stop whining, get off your butt and start working toward it.
It takes time, money and personal comittment to getting the job done. If, and it's a big if, there were enough people who cared about the ridiculous antics and wasteful spending, things could change. Unfortunately, we're just not there yet. I thought we had hit the bottom with the asinine school project. Apparently, I was off in my estimate of the tolerance Lebo residents have for higher taxes. Maybe someday everyone will wake up.
Elaine: Susan has also tried to sue InCommunity Magazine and their editor Wayne Dollard....basically just because they present a better product then Mt Lebanon magazine and threaten her job....so you should probably be flattered.
Flattered? Yes, but I am doing this as a public service. I don't have any attorneys in my family that enable me to file lawsuits at a whim. I have a staff of one, putting in many hours a day, seven days a week, informing the community at no charge.
You can't get blood from a stone, Susan. Or to put it in terms that you could relate to, I should be shopping at Bottom Dollar instead of Market District. Do what you have to do, Susan.
Elaine
Mr. Cannon, I keep hearing this song about name signing and stepping up, but since the failed petition and What the Kluck I have yet to see any organized effort to do anything, by anyone.
There was your write-in campaign a couple of elections ago, but it failed and nothing's happened since.
There is an old saying, "Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way."
For now, because this anonymous person has tried in several of the efforts and is now out of ideas, I'm looking for someone with a better idea to follow.
When it shows up, I'll sign up!
Sued for what?
Well, 2:48, if you're anonymous, it makes it kind of difficult for people to support your ideas. And what, pray tell, are they?
2:48 What do you mean you haven't seen anything organized? There have been a variety of petitions floating around Mt Lebanon in the past year. Some have resulted in changes. What sort of petition are you looking to support?
I know of LeboFields petition for turf.
Supposesily demand for turf is so high that its garnered a whopping 300 votes or so.
Then there was the one about TERC math, which seemed to have influenced changes in the math programs, but I'd suspect the low test numbers in the elementary grades had more to do with the shift.
There was the Williamsburg dog park battle, but I'm not sure which side got the greatest number of signatures.
So I'm aware, but my comment about organized wasn't dotrct primatily at petitions. It was about efforts to change the make of the board andcommission.
We had a commissioner run unopposed and two board directors that couldn't lose because of the dearth of candidates.
2:48 here Mr. Cannon.
I agree with your premise that residents need to get involved, but I wrote: "For now, because this anonymous person has tried in several of the efforts and is now out of ideas, I'm looking for someone with a better idea to follow.
When it shows up, I'll sign up!"
Next thing I see, you're admonishing me for not supplying 'you' with ideas.
8:13 If you're that sensitive and keep choosing to remain anonymous, stop posting. On the one hand, you decry the lack of forward progress and even have the gall to write "Lead, Follow or Get out of the way", a philosophy to which I subscribe. On the other hand, you want someone to walk up and hand you a bundled solution. Make up your mind.
I've never suggested someone give me anything. I'm pushing for more involvement from the community. Since you choose to hide behind "Anonymous", I have no idea if you and I have ever spoken in person. Thus, you would have no idea what conversations I've had in the community and with individuals, either before or after the 2011 election.
I have to assume you're just as irked with the direction of the political winds in this community as I am, or else you wouldn't be here. Thus, logic would dictate you're disturbed by the lack of transparency and by the decision making made not in the best interests of the commmunity but to satisfy personal agendas as well as the lack of civility at times. So unless and until you decide to adhere to the very concepts for which you appear to be advocating, please keep your indignation to yourself. If you'd like to have an actual conversation, I'm open to it. I would like to work with a group of like-minded and interested people toward a solution. Have a nice day.
See Mr. Cannon, you admit you have no idea of whether we have spoken, but you accuse me of wanting 'someone' to hand me a bundked solution.
How do you know that I haven't stepped up an gotten involved in the local parties, worked for or advised candidates, written to or debated officials in public forums or in private meetings?
Basically, you awfully critical of someone you may or may not have ever met, that doesn't seem like a good way to bring people together.
Mr. Cannon, you write (and admirably sign):
"You only pointed out the behavior of the Commission and school board. My point is, where the hell is the reaction from the community? Answer: There wasn't one. Again, apathy and indifference are tacit approval for the actions of the elected offices.
We, the people, ARE the checks and balances. The way it starts is with people being involved. I'm heard my colleagues on the right decry the fact Dems have taken over Lebo. Step back and look at how: they got people involved and organized. Yes, I can drone on about some of the tactics (like using non-profits, including the PTA and various houses of worship to pass along political smears). But in the end, they rallied people. Want change in Lebo? Stop whining, get off your butt and start working toward it. "
And Mr. Gideon suggest:
"What is needed in Mt. Lebanon is a new political body, completely divorced from the Democrats and Republicans, that understands the primary function of local government and the difference between "needs" and "wants." That kind of organization will take money, dedicated people, money, mass-mailings to all residents, and, oh yes, money. Right now all the political money is largely controlled by the left. Add to that the fact that two-thirds of Mt. Lebanon's registered voters sit out local elections and you get the kind of government we currently "enjoy." However, if that vast and currently unknown mass of voters could be engaged there is every reason to think that the "old socialists club" might find themselves swept away."
I agree with both of you and actively tried to do that through various venues. I failed in my participation to effect change.
I and I believe others are waiting to see something start.
I hate to say this because its going to sound too harsh, but talking is easy... anonymously or signed.
Making something happen is an another matter.
The problem as Mr. Gideon highlights, is engaging that mass of voters to get involved.
So Mr. Cannon, when does your group of like-minded individuals meet.
Have a nice day as well and a Merry Christmas as well.
"...please keep your indignation to yourself."
Nice Mr. Cannon. I'm assuming that is the forst chapter in your book on "How to win political friends and influence enemies"
Ladies and Gentleman, exhibit A on how like minded people shoot themselves in the foot and lose elections.
I find conservatives to be more apt to closing off even slightly different opinions than liberals. All one need do is look at the infighting between Republicans in congress and see evidence of this fact.
There is so much common ground on things to fight against but the ideological minutia get in the way of good minds coming together for a proper solution. In this case, Mr. Cannon (who would likely be the first to admit that he is not the most politically correct or docile of conservatives) could find much common ground with the anonymous commenter who is simply asking a "where can I go from here" question.
Jim's frustration likely stems from the fact that he has put himself out there publicly in trying to start a PAC, a campaign, a conservative republican group, or anything that will upset the status quo. He has put those ideas on this blog in fact but the level of apathy has been stupefying.
Fortunately or unfortunately, the infrastructure exists already to make changes on the Republican side of the ledger. And that infrastructure is still the Republican Committee.
The easiest way to influence the party is to get yourself elected to the local committee, attend the meetings, and express your opinion. The election is really a simple process. Each ward and district can have someone elected. Each ward has something between 6 and 8 districts and there are 5 wards. That's roughly 40 seats up for election. If there is no one elected then someone from a ward can be appointed to that position by the committee.
Might I suggest that the simple path forward is to focus on those simple elections to make a change to the current committee instead of focusing on creating a brand new committee or group. There is plenty of time between now and April.
Let us not forget that political change has never been about numbers. During the American revolution only about one-third of the colonists supported independence; one-third supported King George, and the remaining third could not have cared less.
Political change is about ideas. Ideas must be formulated, refined, then communicated. One of the reasons why the left is in power in Mt. Lebanon is that they are true believers in government "über alles." A true believer is difficult to engage, and almost impossible to reason with, but they are usually very vocal and often persuasive. For example, if anything good happens in America the left credits government; if anything bad happens the left blames "individualism" (or capitalism) and absolves government - as if a government were some disembodied entity - a kind of god - that lives and breathes on its own. I know it's a ridiculous idea, but that's the way they think.
Ideas require money if they are to "grow legs." The left in Mt. Lebanon is in much better financial shape than any of its opponents, if money spent on campaigns is any indication. People decry money in politics (and sometimes in any other field of endeavor), but without it not much gets done. As Ayn Rand once said, "..money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver."
Once you come to terms with the subjects above you can then think about advancing a candidate(s) for the Commission or the School Board. The best candidate should be articulate, well read, well written, and reasonably young.
Those are the ideas that I bring to the table. I think a lot of people who post on this Blog would agree with me in a general sense, but they may not agree with me on specifics. I know Mr. Cannon is not exactly enthusiastic about my libertarian ideas; however, I dare say we may agree on those things that are local in nature and don't require a larger philosophical construct. For example, is public infrastructure more important than "turf?" - I think Mr. Cannon and I would say "yes!"
So there it is; define your terms as to what is important for the community; gather together a group of people with which to bat around ideas; form a legal organization to disseminate ideas, and raise all the political money you can so you can back candidates who will articulate those ideas and stick to them.
Richard,
Can that be done within the confines of the existing Republican Committee? I ask because the connections to tools and resources the Committee brings are important. They have contact lists, voter information, homes for yard signs, etc.
My belief is that it is easier to integrate the conservative agenda (or even libertarian ideas) into the existing organization than it is to strike out on your own where one would need the money you speak of as well as connections that do not currently exist.
For all its warts (and there are many), the Committee is the best vehicle there is to changing the election results.
Tell me if you think I am wrong.
Whoever belongs to December 18, 2013 at 1:59 PM has asked, concerning mine of December 18, 2013 at 12:57 PM, whether those ideas can "..be done within the confines of the existing Republican Committee?" For anyone who would like to engage in a friendly "back and forth" on this topic, and is afraid to sign his or her post, please E-mail me at sewever@verizon.net. I will not divulge your name. Otherwise, I don't engage anonymous posters.
Having said that I have made my feelings known on the Republican and Democrat organizations in this town before and, to put it bluntly, I do not wish to be associated with either. The two major parties are simply opposite wings of the same collectivist bird. Both seem to think that votes belong to them, and that independents "steal" their rightful property! This is particularly true of the Republican attitude toward the Libertarian Party.
Each of these two "major dinosaurs" seem to believe that they will last forever. Thought experiment: Were there precursors to the two major parties?; and did those precursors think that they, too, would last last forever? Did not the Republicans "spoil" the Whigs? If that is true, then on what basis does the Republican Party claim Libertarian votes? The Democrats have the same gripe, only not to the same degree. For example, they blame Ralph Nader for goofing up the 2000 Presidential election.
I don't think either major party committee can be reformed. They are about power - collective power (which ironically is a boon to their cronies); they are not concerned about the rights and freedom of the individual Mt. Lebanon resident.
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