I'm sorry I missed today's deer protest on Connor Road. Logistically, it was a poor choice for a protest. But that was exactly the point to selecting this site. Surrounded by natural gas transmission lines and Duquesne Light equipment, as well as luring deer across a heavily traveled road is a formula for disaster.
McNeilly Park, 990 feet away from Seton LaSalle, just 10 feet shy of the 1,000 ft. restriction, demonstrates that they don't know how to use a GPS. And the commissioners don't have a problem with these guys firing guns. It is also pretty slimy that Wildlfe Specialists LLC. and the municipality are willing to cut it so close by a few feet. A Lebo Citizens reader has an appointment on Monday with the Seton LaSalle school principal.
“They want to shoot a gun where there is high traffic, gas lines, and power equipment,” Ms. Chicchi said, pointing to a small yellow flag, which she said indicates gas lines, sticking out of the ground on the side of the road.
“In addition, members of the community needed to alert the proper authorities that neither the Mt. Lebanon commission or Wildlife Specialists LLC applied for a gas permit to shoot where gas lines are. In addition to that, one of the cull sites, McNeilly Park, is approximately 300 feet behind a gas station. That’s putting the public in harm’s way.”
In the same article:
Robert Grimm, 56, also of Mt. Lebanon, has been a hunter for more than 40 years and was holding a bright neon-orange sign reading, “Real Sportsmen Say No Deer Corrals.” He came to the protest to give a view on the issue from a “sportsman’s perspective.”
79 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Great work! Will be interesting to see what gets aired on tv.
8:19 PM The Pennsylvania Game Commission is aware of a WIDE VARIETY of methods for capturing deer, that they themselves have employed. They are aware of the risks associated with each capture method and which would be the best choice in a suburban community concerned with the use of weapons. They also know how to transport deer safely for relocation purpose.
They just lie, lie, lie....because they get away with it most of the time.
Just came across Linfante's "Real Lebo" blog... hasn't been updated in 4 1/2 years, but it's still in cyberspace... one of the last updates was about "lying."
Quite ironic... today's signs said "Linfante Lied" because she did. She said it was about car accidents, when it was about flowers and poop.
Back then, she accused others of lying about the HS renovations project. People were saying taxes could increase by as much as 50% .. she called that a lie.
4 1/2 years later, many people's taxes HAVE increased by 50% since 2010 ... for some of the Newcomers, even more.
Meanwhile, she says it is about car accidents, and that Elaine lusts after her.
Who is lying now?
Happy reading, all!
- Jason M.
*** Tuesday, April 20, 2010
My Mother Taught Me Never To Lie
I bring to your attention a letter that was sent to the school board and commission regarding the petition opposing the high school renovation. As many have suspected all along, the solicitors of this petition are so focused on derailing this project that they have been willing to prey on unsuspecting, uninformed victims, feeding them with a plethora of half-truths and flat out lies. These fear-mongering tactics include telling people that the high school renovation will raise their taxes by 50% (I’ve even heard 70% by some!!!), telling them that there is a much more reasonable $75M “option” that the board has dismissed when in reality no such option has ever existed ...
Last night I urged the board not to be intimidated by the people in this community who are willing to do anything to derail this project – the very same people who yell and scream and show great disrespect for their fellow neighbors at these board meetings. The kicker at last night's board meeting was when a member of the opposed citizens to the high school renovation got up and flat out LIED on local television - stating (in response to me and the letter that I read from the resident who wanted her name removed from the petition) that they have never stated to anyone that taxes would go up 50%! How ludicrous! These very same people have even stated that number in board meetings in the past! It's a little late to back-pedal now wouldn't you say!!?!?!! Their disingenuous, underhanded approach is not only amoral but inexcusable. As their credibility crumbles, I encourage the board to remain focused on this extremely important project. As always, I thank them for their tireless efforts.
Get the real facts, folks. There are people out there who will literally say and do ANYTHING to derail this project. Be very cautious about what you hear on the street. There are two things that I just can't tolerate - mean people and liars. The people who call themselves the "Concerned Citizens of Mt. Lebanon" have got both of those covered! I'm am so happy that residents are finally getting the real facts and are rethinking their allegiance to this fringe group.
Jason, want to know something creepy? Kristen was going after me in that April 20, 2010 blog posting. The April 19, 2010 podcast of that meeting is on my website. Lebocitizens.com I've been taking her shit for almost five years now. Elaine
For the heartless prokill souls that doubtlessly read these comments, here is what a community with integrity did with their "deer problem" today, February 28th, 2015
And, no - to answer that other persons question there is no such thing as humane hunting. Not if that same person still gets meat under cellophane at the grocery store... thats just me though, i try to stick to my morals...
""I've found that you have to work a little harder to make your own community when you weren't born here," adds Linfante, a professional freelance violist who moved here when her husband took a seat with the Pittsburgh Symphony."
Good job Kristen, you succeeded. Too bad, now even people that don't live in Mt. Lebanon don't like the community you've made!
"I walked as close to the corral as the no tres. signs would allow...
It was a pit in the stomach feeling. I felt the way one does when at a funeral, approaching the casket..."
I am getting bombarded with hundreds of emails and am trying to get through them all. Thank you for your patience and your support. I really appreciate it. Elaine
While the Pa Game Commission's (PGC) special permit suspends the state regulated hunting safety zone of 150 yards from any occupied residence, commercial building, school or playground etc. for shooting rifles in Mt. Lebanon, I don't believe that permit suspends this safety zone regulation in adjacent communities. For example, if Mt. Lebanon sets up a killing corral that is within this 150 yard safety zone of an adjacent community, I believe that Mt. Lebanon and Wildlife Specialists are breaking the law.
For example, the small amount of property behind Concordia's nursing home facility that Wildlife Specialists was targeting for a corral killing site runs right up against Scott Township's property line, and it does not meet the 150 yard safety zone clearance from the Scott homes and a children's playground on Meadowlark Drive, which resides in Scott Township. As a result, I think they would be breaking the law setting up a corral killing site in this location. Of course, the other issue at Concordia is the 1,000 foot federal buffer zone law around schools; i.e. you have Temple Emanuel's early childhood school. However, my point is that I believe that the 150 yard safety zone law would still apply to the Scott Township property, the homes, and playground located on Meadowlark Drive.
This is important, because most of the corral killing sites are being setup on the borders with adjacent communities. For example, is the gas station on McNeilly Road by McNeilly Park in Mt. Lebanon or Baldwin? If it's in Baldwin, then the killing site is not 150 yards from the gas station (300 feet)? What about other buildings and homes in that area?
Is Conner road in Mt. Lebanon or Bethel? If in Bethel, are the corral sites right off Conner Road 150 yards away from Conner road? And what are cars with passangers considered traveling on Conner Road - an occupied something?
Are the Corral killing sites in Robb Hollow Park 150 yards from Painters Run Road, which I believe is in Upper St. Clair, and any commercial buildings or occupied resisidences on Painters?
BTW, I hope if and when there is a accident that Mt. Lebanon, which applied for this suspension of safety zones, and the PGC which granted this suspension are both liable to extensive lawsuits.
Can anyone give me an update on the corral killing sites proximity to Keystone Oaks High School and Myrtle Elementary School, which is located in Castle Shannon and adjacent to Mt. Lebanon's golf course. I'd like to contact the superintendent and principle to make them aware of the danger to their students and staff. I'd also like to inform Castle Shannon Council and Mayor.
All well and good 9:55, but who will enforce those safe zones? The GC? Our local police? State troopers? County police? The Attorney General? I recommend not holding your breath
I think i read in your blog that after the Scott Township meeting,, you had overheard some of their citizens say MtL has gone downhill..as a resident who has only been here less than 20 years,, Elaine can you tell me what was it like before?? esp when it comes to elected officials. thankyou..
Gee maybe we're going about the deer problem all wrong! Rather than kill deer or transport them out, why don't we bring coyotes in. Didn't Dave Franklin say he'd like to kill squirrels too? We'd also take care of the rabbit problem for all those starving gardeners.
"Licensed hunters and trappers killed 1,810 coyotes across Pennsylvania in 1990. In 2013, the total was a record 40,956. But coyotes are thriving, here and across the Northeast, said Tom Hardisky, a biologist with the Pennsylvania Game Commission.
“They're pretty much maxed out everywhere,” he said.
That's a testament to their versatility, said Jon Kligo, a wildlife research biologist with the U.S. Forest Service Southern Research Station in South Carolina. They eat everything from rabbits and squirrels to insects, fruit and nuts.
They also prey on white-tailed deer fawns. They're not the only predator to do so, but they are among the best, he said."
1:16 PM, I have not been able to confirm this yet, but allegedly, the Game Commission is introducing coyotes in Scott Township. They will be here before you know it. BTW, we do have coyotes here already. The coyotes will go after Fluffy or Fido on porches before they try to track down a deer. PETA will be protesting not to kill coyotes next. Elaine
I'll offer a couple of examples 12:50. Our taxes paid the price of admission. We didn't have sperate fees for things like stormwater handling, student parking, and tin cup pan-handling to keep the schools running. We also didn't whore out parks and field fences for advertising revenue and we kept naming rights sacred for those who went above and beyond. In essence we paid our way. Over the past decade our leaders have spent like there is no tomorrow, buying useless plots of land while letting infrastructure fall into disrepair. Tell me, did you ever visit a high school in any district, rich or poor, where windows were sealed with packing tape to keep out the cold air. Ours were in the HS before the renovation.
The suggestion to import coyote was a little tongue-in-cheek,, although I had no idea it might be attempted in Scott for deer control.
But let's get facts straight for once please! http://www.urbanwildness.com/urbanwildness.com/Understanding_Coyote_Behavior.html
I think the main point of the original coyote article is that 'we' have very little control over animal populations. They hunt coyote year after year and yet the population is growing. Why should we expect killing a few hundred deer in a tiny 6 sq mi area of Pennsylvania will fare any better.
As long as food is plentiful and predators aren't coyote, deer, rabbit, squirrel and even rats will flourish. It is the natural order of things.
I am getting MANY personal emails about the next protest. Yes, there will be another one. I will post information here when details are finalized. The next commission meeting is March 10. There will be even more opposition to the deer killing attending the meeting than there was before. Even though the commission is moving forward with the deer killing, we aren't going away. The momentum is building. Our message is spreading all over Mt. Lebanon and surrounding communities. Elaine
Hmmm, after reading the Greentree coyote page and... since fawn are a meal for coyote... and we have had "numerous" deer/vehicle incidents... and a deer feeding ban has been imposed perhaps the 2014 aerial survey was correct and there has been a 42% drop in Lebo's deer populations from 2013! After all, Linfante has offered no concrete evidence that the population has exploded. Not one official count, no pictures, nothing... just guesstimates. As we all know, Linfante never, ever gets things wrong, right?
12:50. We were the leader in just about everything. Especially when it came to our schools and education. We were a community with character and integrity. Everyone was proud to be from Mt. Lebanon. We were talked about outside of the community for all the right reasons. Look at us now.
And 2:35 people were envious and considered MTL as a benchmark,being a resident a goal to achieve. Now the community is a laughing stock, yet people still cling to their false pride that Lebo is better than anywhere else. Look at the comments posted on Fake Lebo about Dormont, USC, Castle Shannon, Bethel. How about the analysis of the areas grocery store shoppers in mtl magazine. What is that old saying-- "Pride comes before a fall."
Did the Commission ever think about how all this killing is affecting the youth and the ones with depression? All this unrest and killing of deer, it's like a throw back to the 60's with Vietnam, assassinations and of course the Manson murders..very very dark time.
More words of wisdom. I hope resident requests the link to the USC man who died. I have never been able to find it.
From: Kristen Linfante [ mailto:klinfante@mtlebanon.org] Sent: March 01, 2015 2:51 PM To: Cc: < commission@mtlebanon.org>; Steve Feller Subject: Re: Foot in Mouth Disease
Mr ,
You are correct that I believe trap/shoot is less humane than traditional sharpshooting or even archery. However, this method received the most support through the democratic process. In addition, you are taking all of the comments quoted out of context. I can assure you that Mr Kelley supported a cull. Furthermore, culling is not a one-time thing. It should be a maintenance program just like our other maintenance programs to maintain good roads, sewers, etc.
Furthermore, several neighboring communities do cull. Upper St Clair, South Park and Bethel in South Park, Peters, etc. The fact that we are not culling while immediate neighbors are makes things much worse. Numerous hunters have expressed to me that deer know when an area is being hunted. When they feel stalked, they move. So where do you think the un-culled deer of Bethel, USC, and Peters are going? To the safe haven of Mt Lebanon. By culling as well, we will effectively reduce the numbers while discouraging deer to move in.
Yes, you are correct that I am not keen in the method that received support. I pushed for something different (sharpshooting and possibly archery) that I feel would have been more effective, humane, and cost-effective. However, the democratic process has taken place, a majority supported trap/shoot, and we are moving forward.
I do expect deer management to remain as a line item in the budget in the future. I also expect our animal control costs to reduce quite a bit, just as they have in USC and other towns. Most importantly, I expect that our car accidents will be reduced. Every day I think of the USC resident who several years ago had a car crash with a deer, killing him after it went through the front window as his children watched in horror in the back seat. Something like that could easily happen here because we have so many deer. To ignore that safety risk would be irresponsible on the part of any commissioner. This year alone we removed 83 dead deer from our roads.
If you doubt the story of the USC man, I can send you a link. USC has effectively reduced its car accidents through yearly culling and archery. I commend them for their actions. Regards, Kristen Linfante
Sent from my iPhone Please forgive any texting typos
On Mar 1, 2015, at 2:23 PM, wrote: Honorable Commissioners,
On 11/14/13 Mt. Lebanon Public Works Director Mr. Tom Kelly stated “…when that program ended, the deer came back. If anything, there was an increase in the number of deer incidents…”
On 1/29/15 Commissioner Mr. Brumfield stated “…culling is not, by itself, an answer…”
On 2/25/15 Commissioner Ms. Linfante stated “…I agree with you, it is not humane…”
The only conclusion I can reach from these statements is that the commission is spending tax dollars on a program that, by your own admission, it is not effective, it is not a complete answer to the perceived “problem” and it is not humane.
Per my previous emails, the deer population control issue is larger than Mt. Lebanon; this problem is truly a SW Pennsylvania issue (and maybe larger). I would like to encourage the Commission to work with the PA Game Commission and adjacent communities to resolve this issue. It is going to take a comprehensive plane to solve the perceived “problem”. Killing 150 deer in Mt. Lebanon is not going to solve the problem. Are you naive enough to think that deer will not repopulate the municipality? Do you think that they will not migrate from adjacent communities?
Right Commissioner Linfante, bow hunting is humane.
Bow hunting is not an effective deer management strategy. It is nothing more than recreational hunting. In addition, it's extremely inhumane. Twenty- two published scientific surveys and studies indicate that the average wounding rate for bow hunting is over 50 percent. More than one out of every two deer shot is never retrieved, but dies a slow tortuous death from blood loss and infection. These wounded deer will be dying in residents yards traumatizing families and their children, and running out into the roads causing accidents. In addition, bow hunters often mistake resident's dogs for deer.
For example, "Preliminary Archery Survey Report" Montana Dept. of Fish Wildlife and Parks reports 51% wounding; "Archery Wounding Loss in Texas" Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (51% wounded); "Deer Hunting Retrieval Rates" Michigan Pittman-Robertson Report, Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources (58% wounded); "Effects of Compound Bow Use on Hunter Success and Crippling Rates in Iowa" Wildlife Society Bulletin (49% wounded); "Bow hunting for Deer in Vermont: Some Characteristics of the Hunters, the Hunt, and the Harvest" Vermont Fish and Game Department (63% wounded). The average wounding rate from all 22 reports is 55% accidents.
Furthermore, bow hunting will increase car-deer collisions. According to the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration, most car-deer collisions happen during hunting season. Pennsylvania's second largest insurance company (the nation's 12th largest insurer) — Erie Insurance — collected data that showed a five-fold increase in car-deer collisions on the first day of hunting, and that car-deer collisions remain high throughout hunting season. This is caused by hunters pushing deer out into the roads and panicked wounded deer running into the roads. In addition, once you kill the matriarch doe, whose job it is to safely cross her family, her orphans will run into the roads without caution. The Commissioners ignore these facts and blindly move ahead
Laura Simon, The Humane Society of the United States' wildlife biologist, writes, "Bow-hunting is undeniably inhumane and can incur crippling rates ranging from 40%-60% (Gregory 2005, Nixon et. al 2001, Moen 1989, Cada 1988, Boydston and Gore 1987, Langenau 1986, Gladfelter 1983, Stormer et. al, 1979, Downing 1971). In other words, on average, for every deer struck by an arrow, another may be crippled but not killed. The sight of wounded deer can be extremely traumatic for adults and children alike, and was one of the main reasons that a deer hunt on Fire Island in NY was called off and a immunocontraception-based program implemented instead."
Coyotes are out there, and they're here to stay. They aren't a threat to anyone, so just let them alone. We don't need any more unfounded scare tactics thrown out there getting the deer poop police and the commissionettes storming the municipal building with their torches and pitchforks calling for another slaughter.
The growth in the coyote population in Pa actually pulls back the curtain on the Pa Game Commission (PGC) and hunting groups. They have always said that hunting is necessary to control the deer populations, because there are no predators. However, when the coyote population starts to increase, the hunters complain that they are killing the deer that they want to kill and reducing the deer population, and so the PGC opens up killing coyote all year long with no "bag" limits, i.e. kill all the coyote you like. In addition, they hold coyote killing contests, and give a prize to who ever can kill the most coyotes. I guess it's like pigeon shoots, i.e. just having a lot of fun killing animals. So the PGC is now trying to decimate the most effective deer predator in Pa, for their hunter constituents. Makes a lot of sense right, when out of the other side of their mouths they say that they need to increase hunting to control the deer population, because there are no predators.
The main variable controlling wildlife populations is food supply. Wildlife populations manage themselves through their Bilological Carrying Capacity. Once deer and other wildlife populations reach their biological carrying capacity, which is controlled by food supply, their population stabilizes, i.e. reproduction slows down to maintain this natural balance. The need to manage wildlife populations is a complete ruse. BTW, it's only a coincidence that these game commisions only manage the wildlife populations that hunters want to kill for trophies. Nature seems to manage all the other non-game wildlife populations without a state agencies help
The Pa Game Commission Bias and Conflit of Interest Part (1)
Although the The Pa Game Commission (PGC) portrays itself as a wildlife “conservation” organization whose mission is to manage wildlife for the benefit of all Pennsylvanians, this portrayal is extremely misleading. The PGC is a game commission managing a statewide recreational hunting business serving its hunting constituents (only 5-6% of PA’s population and declining fast, and likely less than 1% of Mt. Lebanon residents). The PGC is funded by hunting license fees, game land timber sales, and Federal funding under the Pittman-Roberston Act (PRA). The Federal funds are distributed based upon each state’s land area and its number of hunting licenses sold.
“That is a key reason ‘scientific herd management’ through hunting is the agencies’ bread and butter. They manage herds not to prevent problems in residential areas, but to serve themselves and their hunter constituents. Promoting deer kills also serves wildlife agencies’ interests by masking the agencies’ own responsibility for deer population growth.” (White-Tailed Deer: The Phantom Menace, David Cantor, 1999.)
"Deer are [artificially] managed on a Maximum Sustained Yield (M.S.Y.) principle to produce surpluses for hunter recreation. One M.S.Y. method is to kill excesses of bucks in order to alter the natural 1 to 1 male/female sex ratio, leaving 5 to 15 females for each male. This maximizes fawn production. Another M.S.Y. method is habitat manipulation. For example, the Wildlife Division of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) in Michigan increased the deer herd from 400,000 to one million by clear cutting 1.3 million acres of state forest to create deer browse. According to officials, this was done "because a forest managed by nature cannot produce a fraction of the deer needed by half a million hunters." (The American Hunting Myth, Ron Baker, 1985)
The PGC spends more than 40% of its $80 million budget on wildlife habitat improvements for game species. The state’s deer are intentionally managed for “maximum sustained yield” to produce more targets for their hunting constituents. Contrast this with the fact that only 2.87% of their budget is directed toward non-game species, and their priorities become very clear.
The Pa Game Commission Bias and Conflit of Interest (Part 2)
"In an interview a few years ago, Gary Alt described how he felt when he took the job as director of the PGC's deer management section. He looked at the history of deer mgt in the state and saw that every biologist who had ever suggested lowering the number of deer to a level more compatible with the amount of available habitat had been fired, transferred or quit. On the verge of offering similar advice of his own ... 'I thought, My God, I'm going to get killed.' ...When Alt was traveling the state doing lectures for sportsmen, things were so hot that he was advised to wear a bulletproof vest and have an escape route planned for any hall he entered." This article in the Pittsburgh Tribune Review reveals what's behind the curtain, in their own words.
This PGC's artificial propagation of the deer population and hunting are responsible for a majority of car-deer collisions, related injuries, and deaths across the state. According to the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration, most car-deer collisions happen during hunting season. Pennsylvania's second largest insurance company (the nation's 12th largest insurer) — Erie Insurance — collected data that showed a five-fold increase in deer-car collisions on the first day of hunting and that deer-car collisions remain high throughout hunting season. This is caused by hunters pushing deer out into the roads and panicked wounded deer running into the roads. In addition, once you kill the matriarch doe, whose job it is to safely cross her family, her orphans will run into the roads without caution.
Local scenarios typically follow the same pattern. A few residents complain about deer eating their tulips. The local commissioners, unsure of what to do, contact the PGC for help. The PGC's confirms this growing deer population phenomena, and recommends that the local township rescind its ban on the use of lethal weapons and hunting, and allow hunting, or sponsor a hunting program. Conveniently, the PGC fails to own any responsibility for the increase of the deer population. Even more conveniently, the PGC manages to be paid both to ”create” the problem and again to “solve” it. However, hunting doesn't reduce deer populations, but actually triggers an increase in the population - see (Reproductive Dynamics Among Disjunct White-tailed Deer Herds in Florida", Journal of Wildlife Management [1985]) This study found the incidence of twinning was 38% on hunted sites and 14% on nonhunted sites. No twinning was observed among pregnant fawns or yearlings from nonhunted areas, whereas...18% of the pregnant yearlings and...33% of the pregnant fawns from hunted areas carried twins.
The problem is that neither the Commission or the public understands this biased agenda, and typically look to the PGC as the "experts", and outsources its decision making to an agency so clearly motivated by its own biased agenda and conflicts of interest.
While it may seem counter intuitive, killing deer actually triggers an increase in deer reproduction and population. This phenomena is called compensatory reproduction and is a well documented population dynamic in deer and other mammals. When the deer herd density is temporarily reduced through hunting, culling, or trapping, there is reduced competition for food, and the number of twins and triplets born actually increases. Studies have show that after a hunt surviving females produced enough offspring to not only replace those killed, but enough to actually increase the size of the herd. This phenomenon explains why hunting as a management tool has resulted in an ever-increasing number of deer in this country. For example, a study conducted by the Dept of Wildlife and Range Sciences, School of Forest Resources and Conservation at the University of Florida sampled deer from five separate sites: three hunted and two nonhunted. The study found that the incidence of twins being born to a pregnant doe was higher on hunted land than on non hunted land. The study found the incidence of twinning was 38% on hunted sites and 14% on nonhunted sites. No twinning was observed among pregnant fawns or yearlings from nonhunted areas, whereas...18% of the pregnant yearlings and...33% of the pregnant fawns from hunted areas carried twins." (Reproductive Dynamics Among Disjunct White-tailed Deer Herds in Florida", Journal of Wildlife Management [1985]).
Laura Simon, The Humane Society of the United States's (HSUS) wildlife biologist writes: “One of the main problems with trying to manage deer through any kind of hunting or culling – as repeatedly cited during a Smithsonian Institute conference on Deer Overabundance (McShea et. al 1997) – is that deer are highly prolific, and their high reproductive rate can quickly compensate for declines in their population. They exhibit higher productivity (i.e. more twins and triplets are born, have higher survival rates, etc.) as their numbers lessen and more food becomes available for the remaining deer. In other words, they ‘bounce back’. ... We do not see any evidence that hunting or culling works over the long-term or is an answer for suburban deer conflicts.”
Killing deer is not a solution to a problem, but a commitment to a permanent problem.
Yes, a father from Upper St Clair died on October 30, 1988 while driving on a non residential road in the Bridgeville area. He may have been on 1-79.
I knew him and his family. His son was in the car and was not injured.
My family has been in this area a very long time. From this long time in Western PA, he is the only person we know that died in a deer motor vehicle collision.
I find it quite disturbing to use his death as a rationale for this slaughter. I doubt his family would approve. Do the Commissioners dare to ask?
Gee this is interesting! "Upper St. Clair initiated its own multi-faceted whitetail deer management program in 1998 after receiving the community's approval through a referendum vote. During the 2011-2012 season, 122 deer were removed from the township. Mark Mansfield, assistant manager for Upper St. Clair, said the township started with a controlled archery hunt at Boyce Park and then expanded to a contracted annual culling from late January to early March in recent years."
Ms. Linfante, proclaims a USC driver died when deer came through his windshield "several years ago." I wonder, hmmmm, how many years is several for Ms. Linfante? If her several years is less than 17 then USC's deer management didn't prevent someone from dying, did it Kristen? (If you story is true!) Therefore, in all likelihood it won't guarantee no one will ever die in a MTL deer/vehicle accident either.
William Mahon, who lived in USC, died on October 28, 1988 in Cecil Township when a deer went through his windshield: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2519&dat=19890103&id=1GtiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rnYNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1251,39003
After the geese in North Park were killed in 2007 I was exposed to the role wildlife play as a source of comfort to people who are depressed or grieving in some way, and I wasn't quite expecting it.... I listened to people and their stories for hours and hours. I still hear occasionally from one lady who had been going through a horrible divorce and child custody battle. She found solace in visiting the goose flock at the park and even named one particular goose who would come to greet her every day. That goose "Sophie" was rounded up and killed and the lady in question came very close to a nervous breakdown. No matter what you think of naming wildlife or of feeling a "bond" with them like the people I spoke to, whether or not you can understand that, don't ever underestimate what these municipal executions of wildlife do to people who are going through whatever experience of grieving or sorrow. If Karma exists this is Bad.
5:44 pm. Now i remember... there used to a haunted house on Route 50 that everyone would go to.... maybe its still there.
In 1988, Mr. Mahon died because someone else on Rt 50 hit the deer and then it came through his windshield.
USC would never use his death to justify the development of a deer slaughter that is horrifying the entire region. They did not use it to justify the beginning of their deer cull program either.
Of note, in 1982, Cecil tried to lower the speed limit on Route 50 by 20 miles per hour. They wanted to go from 55 to 35. The state would only allow the speed limit to go down to 45 mph.
Nevertheless, no one in Mt Lebanon should be traveling 45 mph anywhere, right?
Wow, Linfante has to dig back into the archives to 1988 to find a neighboring community driver killed by a deer accident. Gee, Kristen, a woman was tragically killed and decapitated by a flying manhole cover on Carson Street in 1992. Tragic things happens and we do our best to eliminate the causes, but to use them as a hysterical rational to kill, especially a 25 years old event, is absurd.
Now I understand why I could never find anything about that horrible accident. I was searching for the accident to have taken place in USC. And I didn't look back far enough.
Thank you, All, for providing the information. Elaine
When was the last time a motor vehicle accident was caused by inattentive driving? I can think of 4 in MTL so far in 2015. But the Corn Police and the Corn Commission want poop-free Chemlawns for their moneyed friends. It's actually insane for anyone to continue to beat the "in the name of public safety" drum.
Linfante cannot be trusted. She shapes arguments according to her agenda and not according to fact and that is very harmful to a community. She may be effective in the theatrical arena, but theatrics are not appropriate when managing real life situations.
Shame on Mt. Lebanon for electing this divisive and lying individual.
Soooo, what's the plan? Deer will be killed this week in unsafe areas.
We're stuck with Linfante till 2016. I have asked her to resign repeatedly. She's not budging. We have three other commissioners who also voted for this plan. John Bendel, Dave Brumfield, and Steve Silverman have also voted for this plan.
I have a volunteer to video the horrible killing on Connor Road. Anyone else willing to step forward? These videos must be shared. Other than taking legal action, I don't know what else to do.
The next commission meeting is March 10. Deer will be killed by then. I'm praying that nobody gets hurt. Elaine
I hate to ask but have any deer been killed yet?? i've never been so depressed about anything so much in my life.. animals losing their lives just because some snobby lebo person feels there are too many deer. i was at the last township meeting and there were so many excellent speakers but the one that move me and touched my heart was the man from the pgh symphony.. does anyone have his name or is there a way to listen to a podcast?? thankyou..
9:44 pm The podcast is available on this website: http://mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?NID=2151
You have to click on Commission and then go to the 2/23/15 meeting. I was struck by the Pgh Symphony member's comments too, although I really was so moved listening to everyone's comment that I could only listen in doses.
The Associated Press picked up the Connor Road deer protest, so a few extra papers published it throughout the state and elsewhere.
Meanwhile, a town outside NY is embroiled in controversy about coyotes and the state expert on coyotes indicated the "coexistence" was the best long-term approach. Sigh. He wouldn't last long with the PA Game Commission.
9:44 I don't know if any deer have been killed yet but I know that Brian Benner is required to submit the number of deer that he has killed by the 10th of every month to the PGC.
Kristen Linfante's example is of a man driving on a freeway in a rural Pennsylvania county, not Allegheny County? And all this time she made it seem like it happened in USC? AND it occurred more than a quarter century ago? Linfantinsane.
Kip's Deer Processing in Carnegie has not been notified. kipsdeerprocessing.net Steve Feller said in a Discussion Session that Kip's would be doing the deer processing.
Dr. Jeffrey Pope, the Monroeville veterinarian who was on KDKA Mike Pintek's show a week before I was on his show, said that the meat will most likely go to landfills.
ALL the local food banks have been called and NONE of them will be able to accept the deer meat.
This is exactly what happened in Season 1 and Season 2 of the deer culling in 2006-2008.
We were told that shots will be taken from a platform. Has anyone seen any platforms built?
Yep, 12:40. Where is the mayhem, carnage and blood on Mt. Lebanon streets from deer accidents? Linfante is ignoring pedestrian incidents on Washington where people have been seriously injured in a quest to reduce rare deer incidents. plus she has taken the police away from watching for DUIs, speeding and texting while driving, so they can protect corn feeders... that are luring deer INTO Mt. Lebanon and onto our roadways. An example of how crazy this woman really is. Watch the last commissioners meeting. The audience gets a little rowdy while someone is speaking and what does Linfante do. Raises her hands, egging the audience on to get even more boisterous. This from the women that was going to clear the chambers a month or so ago when the audience got loud.
"As districts adopt the program, officials must explain to parents and children as young as kindergarten what to do in an active-shooter situation. Mt. Lebanon school psychologists who trained in Bethel Park last year and relayed the lessons to staff, worked with the municipality's police to develop “scripts” for teachers to discuss strategies with kids, said district spokeswoman Cissy Bowman.
“There are a lot of interpretations of how to share it with kids,” said Mt. Lebanon police Deputy Chief Aaron Lauth. “Some districts go full-tilt with simulated SWAT situations. ... We didn't think we'd do that.”
Elementary teachers keep it simple by defining an intruder to kids and emphasizing that they should follow teachers' instructions on whether to barricade the door, evacuate through a door or window or counter an attacker by throwing things, running in zigzags or making lots of noise."
WOULDN'T YOU THINK THE FIRST STEP IN DEFINING AN INTRUDER WOULD BE SPOTTING SOMEONE WITH A GUN IN A SCHOOL GUN-FREE ZONE?
NO IN LEBO THE LOGIC IS... LETS CONDITION EVERYONE TO GET USE TO THE IDEA OF SOMEONE CARRYING A GUN NEAR A SCHOOL SO NO ONE THINKS TO ALERT THE AUTHORITIES.
On the other hand, in the interest of public safety, we'll have police on high alert guarding corn feeders from people without guns that want to save deer.
If this wasn't so absurd you'd want to laugh hysterically.
OK, this is waaay too easy. I'm not an attorney, but it looks like a breach of contract. Benner's contract What kind of an attorney is David Brumfield, if he hasn't figured this out? Elaine
9:04 Of note, the ALICE program is not grounded in research as the school district has told everyone. Try a google scholar search on the program. If it were grounded in research, you would find some information there. Also, examine what youth violence researchers have stated about the program.
Of the "certified" professionals ask yourself "certified in what??" Money is being wasted on this program and providing districts with the false sense of security that comes from throwing money at nothing. Less money will be spent on programming and resources that make a difference in promoting health in young children and families -- those are investments that pay off in the long run.
Until Pennsylvania wises up, expect money to be spent on ridiculous ALICE programs that inadvertently may encourage violence by desensitizing children to antisocial behavior and failing to meet their needs.
The next Baldwin Township commissioners meeting is tomorrow at 7:30 PM. Address is 10 Community Park Drive 15234 That's part of Dan Miller's area ( and Wayne Fontana is the senator). Elaine
Ive been trying to understand the current Commission and their ProDeer Kill Agenda.. despite what a LOT of their citizens feel they have have pushed this down our throats like it's a true emergency. Ms. Linfante might of had the support of the new progessive liberal young familites during the election.. but even though they are the majority in MtLebanon (in Allegheny County, outside the city of Pittsburgh, Obama recd the most votes of all the other communities) there is another powerful minority that runs this town..ie the sports families and the 60+ gardeners.
Let me preface this comment by saying that a major reason I moved to Mt Lebanon was its excellent library.
I cannot live without books (like Thomas Jefferson once said).
Saying that, it has come to my attention the a primary leader of the yearly Garden Tour is an expert in cultivating ROSES. Deer absolutely love roses. He is slated to speak again on gardens and roses in a couple of weeks.
So is the library and its garden tour pro-slaughter the deer in our public parks where kids are witnessing deer slayers building corrals?
This is enough for me to NOT STEP FOOT in the Mt Lebanon Library.
12:21 not a bad suggestion, but we can't even get them to provide a real count of the number of deer in the municipality. The only real survey (and we paid good money to conduct it two years in a row) Linfante dismissed. Instead she proclaims an expert she talked to on the phone estimates we have 100/sq mi. So told me, how are you going to make these people do anything?
12:43 PM, I have never missed a Garden Tour in 24 years. It is a wonderful event. I visited Carolyn Byham's gardens, Barbara Logan's, Rob Papke's, Brodbeck's, London's, and I'm sure I am forgetting orhers who have been plotting to kill the deer for years. I wouldn't go after the Library because they are just trying to find ways to raise money. I do have a problem with the gardeners who are using the excuse that it is a public safety issue. Elaine
Any time work is done outside, Pa One Call must be contacted. When I was having a fence put in the back yard, Mt. Lebanon required that I contact PA One Call. Benner failed to do that. It will be at least a week before he can fire a bullet in this town. The utility companies must mark all their lines. That brings it to the week of March 9, 2015 and can only go till March 31, 2015. Merlin, you can get out of this contract at any time. Elaine
The following commissioner's report appeared on Lebomag on May 2014.
The question residents-- how many of those $130,000 in improvements for pedestrian safety have been implemented?
We know pedestrians have been seriously injured in MTL recently, we're not talking about a rare incident in Cecil that occurred more than a quarter of a century ago! These incidents are happening now Commissioner Linfante and they involve your neighbors. What... safety for MTL lives aren't important unless deer are involved?
http://lebomag.com/17627/commissioners-report-3/
"As most know, we have had some very serious accidents between cars and pedestrians. These accidents have resulted in permanent or long-term effects, physically and emotionally, for all involved. Let’s use our safety resources, be alert and be safe. Additional Resources and Enhancements Traffic safety experts have given a number of presentations to the Commission regarding opportunities to improve safety throughout Mt Lebanon. Some of these items do cost money but should be addressed. It would be great to find the funds to tackle all the items at once, but the cost is great.
The estimated cost for potential enhancements would be around $130,000 but roads would be safer. I believe safety should be one of our top priorities and the money would be well spent. If you are interested in knowing the list, please contact me."
I think you hit on something,, i forgot about.. the Public Library and its group of volunteer garderners.. Last summer i was walking my small dog by the Library gardens and she happened to step foot in the area to have a sniff..IMMEDIATELY,, we both got reprimanded by the gardeners..i feel most of these people working inside and outside the Public Library are elitist snobby New York Times reading negative personality types..
Just think, when the end of May arrives and Benner doesn't come close to the goal of 150 deer killed, his company will become the joke of internet searches for competent deer managers. (Of course, they may fudge authenticating the actual "harvest" since no one has said how Benner will prove his take.)
"A fundraiser for the Mt. Lebanon Public Library, the tour averages eight gardens each year.
"With an area of 6 square miles, Mt. Lebanon has approximately 33,000 residents, and we're glad that many of them are gardeners," library director Cynthia Richey said. "The community has been recognized by many organizations for its trees, gardens and green spaces, things the residents really seem to care about."
oh brother. Not seeing much support for animals from the library.
The theme this year should be "blood red roses"
The pre-tour party is the day before at the library. No doubt the main deer-haters will be in attendance.
12:59 Elaine - They can create selection criteria for their garden tour that reflects a peaceful and sustainable approach to gardening in a region that is inhabited by wild tailed deer.
Or is it like this:
Q: How does your garden grow?
A: By slaughtering the neighborhood deer in corrals.
"Hastings-on-Hudson, an affluent NY community has the opportunity to be recognized as an innovative, humane community. Even if the plan fails, they can at least say we tried!
Mt. Lebanon, an affluent community solidifies it reputation as a blood-thirsty community that doesn't care about nature or the environment.
Good going commissioners! I suggest you install a digital sign at the "crown jewel" field with constantly updated numbers above which the sign will read-- MTL Deer killed to date!
Let the world know how you're doing.
"Under the plan, which will begin this winter if approved by the state Department of Environmental Conservation, as many as 90 percent of the does in Hastings will be tranquilized, inoculated with the contraceptive, then tagged and released. The deer population is estimated at up to 120, a density of 60 per square mile. That’s three times the deer density that some studies have tied to a decline in plant and animal species. The goal is a 35 to 40 percent reduction in five years. Stephanie Boyles Griffin, a senior director at the Humane Society of the United States, said, “There are thousands of communities in the U.S. that are looking for alternative ways to manage the deer populations.” If successful, she said, “Hastings would be the first open suburb in the U.S. to manage deer exclusively through the use of immunocontraception.”
79 comments:
Great work! Will be interesting to see what gets aired on tv.
I'm interested in your efforts here. May I ask your position on a few subjects?
- Does the author of this blog believe that there is overpopulation of deer in Mt Lebanon?
- If you do think there is overpopulation, are you in favor of sterilization?
- And again, if you think there is overpopulation, are you in favor of relocation?
- If you are for sterilization or relocation, is the capturing of deer for these purposes more humane than capturing deer for culling?
- Can deer hunting ever be humane? Or is it by its very nature inhumane?
Thanks!
I don't believe there is an overpopulation of deer.
Elaine
8:19 PM The Pennsylvania Game Commission is aware of a WIDE VARIETY of methods for capturing deer, that they themselves have employed. They are aware of the risks associated with each capture method and which would be the best choice in a suburban community concerned with the use of weapons. They also know how to transport deer safely for relocation purpose.
They just lie, lie, lie....because they get away with it most of the time.
We've seen it all 8:19 pm.
Who here likes irony?
Just came across Linfante's "Real Lebo" blog... hasn't been updated in 4 1/2 years, but it's still in cyberspace... one of the last updates was about "lying."
Quite ironic... today's signs said "Linfante Lied" because she did. She said it was about car accidents, when it was about flowers and poop.
Back then, she accused others of lying about the HS renovations project. People were saying taxes could increase by as much as 50% .. she called that a lie.
4 1/2 years later, many people's taxes HAVE increased by 50% since 2010 ... for some of the Newcomers, even more.
Meanwhile, she says it is about car accidents, and that Elaine lusts after her.
Who is lying now?
Happy reading, all!
- Jason M.
***
Tuesday, April 20, 2010
My Mother Taught Me Never To Lie
I bring to your attention a letter that was sent to the school board and commission regarding the petition opposing the high school renovation. As many have suspected all along, the solicitors of this petition are so focused on derailing this project that they have been willing to prey on unsuspecting, uninformed victims, feeding them with a plethora of half-truths and flat out lies. These fear-mongering tactics include telling people that the high school renovation will raise their taxes by 50% (I’ve even heard 70% by some!!!), telling them that there is a much more reasonable $75M “option” that the board has dismissed when in reality no such option has ever existed ...
Last night I urged the board not to be intimidated by the people in this community who are willing to do anything to derail this project – the very same people who yell and scream and show great disrespect for their fellow neighbors at these board meetings. The kicker at last night's board meeting was when a member of the opposed citizens to the high school renovation got up and flat out LIED on local television - stating (in response to me and the letter that I read from the resident who wanted her name removed from the petition) that they have never stated to anyone that taxes would go up 50%! How ludicrous! These very same people have even stated that number in board meetings in the past! It's a little late to back-pedal now wouldn't you say!!?!?!! Their disingenuous, underhanded approach is not only amoral but inexcusable. As their credibility crumbles, I encourage the board to remain focused on this extremely important project. As always, I thank them for their tireless efforts.
Get the real facts, folks. There are people out there who will literally say and do ANYTHING to derail this project. Be very cautious about what you hear on the street. There are two things that I just can't tolerate - mean people and liars. The people who call themselves the "Concerned Citizens of Mt. Lebanon" have got both of those covered! I'm am so happy that residents are finally getting the real facts and are rethinking their allegiance to this fringe group.
Posted by Kristen Linfante at 10:42 PM
Jason, want to know something creepy? Kristen was going after me in that April 20, 2010 blog posting. The April 19, 2010 podcast of that meeting is on my website. Lebocitizens.com I've been taking her shit for almost five years now.
Elaine
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/02/28/cull-protesters-demonstrate-in-mt-lebanon/
For the heartless prokill souls that doubtlessly read these comments, here is what a community with integrity did with their "deer problem" today, February 28th, 2015
http://www.redbankgreen.com/2015/02/red-bank-deer-rescued-frozen-river.html
WOW. Linfante woman sounds like a real piece of work! HOW IS SHE STILL ON THE COMMISSION?!?! What is wrong with Mt. Lebo????
And, no - to answer that other persons question there is no such thing as humane hunting. Not if that same person still gets meat under cellophane at the grocery store... thats just me though, i try to stick to my morals...
http://www.popcitymedia.com/innovationnews/reallebo0120.aspx
""I've found that you have to work a little harder to make your own community when you weren't born here," adds Linfante, a professional freelance violist who moved here when her husband took a seat with the Pittsburgh Symphony."
Good job Kristen, you succeeded. Too bad, now even people that don't live in Mt. Lebanon don't like the community you've made!
Someone emailed this to me this morning.
"I walked as close to the corral as the no tres. signs would allow...
It was a pit in the stomach feeling. I felt the way one does when at a funeral, approaching the casket..."
I am getting bombarded with hundreds of emails and am trying to get through them all. Thank you for your patience and your support. I really appreciate it.
Elaine
Safety Zones ?
While the Pa Game Commission's (PGC) special permit suspends the state regulated hunting safety zone of 150 yards from any occupied residence, commercial building, school or playground etc. for shooting rifles in Mt. Lebanon, I don't believe that permit suspends this safety zone regulation in adjacent communities. For example, if Mt. Lebanon sets up a killing corral that is within this 150 yard safety zone of an adjacent community, I believe that Mt. Lebanon and Wildlife Specialists are breaking the law.
For example, the small amount of property behind Concordia's nursing home facility that Wildlife Specialists was targeting for a corral killing site runs right up against Scott Township's property line, and it does not meet the 150 yard safety zone clearance from the Scott homes and a children's playground on Meadowlark Drive, which resides in Scott Township. As a result, I think they would be breaking the law setting up a corral killing site in this location. Of course, the other issue at Concordia is the 1,000 foot federal buffer zone law around schools; i.e. you have Temple Emanuel's early childhood school. However, my point is that I believe that the 150 yard safety zone law would still apply to the Scott Township property, the homes, and playground located on Meadowlark Drive.
This is important, because most of the corral killing sites are being setup on the borders with adjacent communities. For example, is the gas station on McNeilly Road by McNeilly Park in Mt. Lebanon or Baldwin? If it's in Baldwin, then the killing site is not 150 yards from the gas station (300 feet)? What about other buildings and homes in that area?
Is Conner road in Mt. Lebanon or Bethel? If in Bethel, are the corral sites right off Conner Road 150 yards away from Conner road? And what are cars with passangers considered traveling on Conner Road - an occupied something?
Are the Corral killing sites in Robb Hollow Park 150 yards from Painters Run Road, which I believe is in Upper St. Clair, and any commercial buildings or occupied resisidences on Painters?
BTW, I hope if and when there is a accident that Mt. Lebanon, which applied for this suspension of safety zones, and the PGC which granted this suspension are both liable to extensive lawsuits.
Can anyone give me an update on the corral killing sites proximity to Keystone Oaks High School and Myrtle Elementary School, which is located in Castle Shannon and adjacent to Mt. Lebanon's golf course. I'd like to contact the superintendent and principle to make them aware of the danger to their students and staff. I'd also like to inform Castle Shannon Council and Mayor.
All well and good 9:55, but who will enforce those safe zones? The GC? Our local police? State troopers? County police? The Attorney General?
I recommend not holding your breath
I think i read in your blog that after the Scott Township meeting,, you had overheard some of their citizens say MtL has gone downhill..as a resident who has only been here less than 20 years,, Elaine can you tell me what was it like before?? esp when it comes to elected officials. thankyou..
Gee maybe we're going about the deer problem all wrong!
Rather than kill deer or transport them out, why don't we bring coyotes in.
Didn't Dave Franklin say he'd like to kill squirrels too? We'd also take care of the rabbit problem for all those starving gardeners.
"Licensed hunters and trappers killed 1,810 coyotes across Pennsylvania in 1990. In 2013, the total was a record 40,956.
But coyotes are thriving, here and across the Northeast, said Tom Hardisky, a biologist with the Pennsylvania Game Commission.
“They're pretty much maxed out everywhere,” he said.
That's a testament to their versatility, said Jon Kligo, a wildlife research biologist with the U.S. Forest Service Southern Research Station in South Carolina. They eat everything from rabbits and squirrels to insects, fruit and nuts.
They also prey on white-tailed deer fawns. They're not the only predator to do so, but they are among the best, he said."
http://triblive.com/mobile/7796460-96/coyote-coyotes-hunters
1:16 PM, I have not been able to confirm this yet, but allegedly, the Game Commission is introducing coyotes in Scott Township. They will be here before you know it. BTW, we do have coyotes here already. The coyotes will go after Fluffy or Fido on porches before they try to track down a deer. PETA will be protesting not to kill coyotes next.
Elaine
I'll offer a couple of examples 12:50.
Our taxes paid the price of admission.
We didn't have sperate fees for things like stormwater handling, student parking, and tin cup pan-handling to keep the schools running.
We also didn't whore out parks and field fences for advertising revenue and we kept naming rights sacred for those who went above and beyond.
In essence we paid our way.
Over the past decade our leaders have spent like there is no tomorrow, buying useless plots of land while letting infrastructure fall into disrepair.
Tell me, did you ever visit a high school in any district, rich or poor, where windows were sealed with packing tape to keep out the cold air. Ours were in the HS before the renovation.
Few things:
1. Scott already has coyotes for sure.
2. Money controls the commission and drives their decisions.
Reminds me of this:
"When money becomes an idol, it commands the choices of man. And thus it ruins man and condemns him. It makes him a slave," --Pope Francis
PGC asserts they have never introduced nor transferred coyotes in Pennsylvania.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=598430&mode=2
If there is an animal worthy of being hunted over bait, it is the yote.
btw, GreenTree has a page on local coyotes
http://www.greentreeboro.com/coyote.html
The suggestion to import coyote was a little tongue-in-cheek,, although I had no idea it might be attempted in Scott for deer control.
But let's get facts straight for once please!
http://www.urbanwildness.com/urbanwildness.com/Understanding_Coyote_Behavior.html
I think the main point of the original coyote article is that 'we' have very little control over animal populations. They hunt coyote year after year and yet the population is growing. Why should we expect killing a few hundred deer in a tiny 6 sq mi area of Pennsylvania will fare any better.
As long as food is plentiful and predators aren't coyote, deer, rabbit, squirrel and even rats will flourish. It is the natural order of things.
http://www.urbanwildness.com/urbanwildness.com/Understanding_Coyote_Behavior.html
I am getting MANY personal emails about the next protest. Yes, there will be another one. I will post information here when details are finalized.
The next commission meeting is March 10. There will be even more opposition to the deer killing attending the meeting than there was before. Even though the commission is moving forward with the deer killing, we aren't going away. The momentum is building. Our message is spreading all over Mt. Lebanon and surrounding communities.
Elaine
Hmmm, after reading the Greentree coyote page and... since fawn are a meal for coyote... and we have had "numerous" deer/vehicle incidents... and a deer feeding ban has been imposed perhaps the 2014 aerial survey was correct and there has been a 42% drop in Lebo's deer populations from 2013!
After all, Linfante has offered no concrete evidence that the population has exploded. Not one official count, no pictures, nothing... just guesstimates.
As we all know, Linfante never, ever gets things wrong, right?
12:50. We were the leader in just about everything. Especially when it came to our schools and education. We were a community with character and integrity. Everyone was proud to be from Mt. Lebanon. We were talked about outside of the community for all the right reasons. Look at us now.
And 2:35 people were envious and considered MTL as a benchmark,being a resident a goal to achieve.
Now the community is a laughing stock, yet people still cling to their false pride that Lebo is better than anywhere else. Look at the comments posted on Fake Lebo about Dormont, USC, Castle Shannon, Bethel.
How about the analysis of the areas grocery store shoppers in mtl magazine.
What is that old saying-- "Pride comes before a fall."
The commissioners have turned Mt. Lebanon into Pottersville.
Did the Commission ever think about how all this killing is affecting the youth and the ones with depression? All this unrest and killing of deer, it's like a throw back to the 60's with Vietnam, assassinations and of course the Manson murders..very very dark time.
More words of wisdom. I hope resident requests the link to the USC man who died. I have never been able to find it.
From: Kristen Linfante [ mailto:klinfante@mtlebanon.org]
Sent: March 01, 2015 2:51 PM
To:
Cc: < commission@mtlebanon.org>; Steve Feller
Subject: Re: Foot in Mouth Disease
Mr ,
You are correct that I believe trap/shoot is less humane than traditional sharpshooting or even archery. However, this method received the most support through the democratic process. In addition, you are taking all of the comments quoted out of context. I can assure you that Mr Kelley supported a cull. Furthermore, culling is not a one-time thing. It should be a maintenance program just like our other maintenance programs to maintain good roads, sewers, etc.
Furthermore, several neighboring communities do cull. Upper St Clair, South Park and Bethel in South Park, Peters, etc. The fact that we are not culling while immediate neighbors are makes things much worse. Numerous hunters have expressed to me that deer know when an area is being hunted. When they feel stalked, they move. So where do you think the un-culled deer of Bethel, USC, and Peters are going? To the safe haven of Mt Lebanon. By culling as well, we will effectively reduce the numbers while discouraging deer to move in.
Yes, you are correct that I am not keen in the method that received support. I pushed for something different (sharpshooting and possibly archery) that I feel would have been more effective, humane, and cost-effective. However, the democratic process has taken place, a majority supported trap/shoot, and we are moving forward.
I do expect deer management to remain as a line item in the budget in the future. I also expect our animal control costs to reduce quite a bit, just as they have in USC and other towns. Most importantly, I expect that our car accidents will be reduced. Every day I think of the USC resident who several years ago had a car crash with a deer, killing him after it went through the front window as his children watched in horror in the back seat. Something like that could easily happen here because we have so many deer. To ignore that safety risk would be irresponsible on the part of any commissioner. This year alone we removed 83 dead deer from our roads.
If you doubt the story of the USC man, I can send you a link. USC has effectively reduced its car accidents through yearly culling and archery. I commend them for their actions.
Regards,
Kristen Linfante
Sent from my iPhone
Please forgive any texting typos
On Mar 1, 2015, at 2:23 PM, wrote:
Honorable Commissioners,
On 11/14/13 Mt. Lebanon Public Works Director Mr. Tom Kelly stated “…when that program ended, the deer came back. If anything, there was an increase in the number of deer incidents…”
On 1/29/15 Commissioner Mr. Brumfield stated “…culling is not, by itself, an answer…”
On 2/25/15 Commissioner Ms. Linfante stated “…I agree with you, it is not humane…”
The only conclusion I can reach from these statements is that the commission is spending tax dollars on a program that, by your own admission, it is not effective, it is not a complete answer to the perceived “problem” and it is not humane.
Per my previous emails, the deer population control issue is larger than Mt. Lebanon; this problem is truly a SW Pennsylvania issue (and maybe larger). I would like to encourage the Commission to work with the PA Game Commission and adjacent communities to resolve this issue. It is going to take a comprehensive plane to solve the perceived “problem”. Killing 150 deer in Mt. Lebanon is not going to solve the problem. Are you naive enough to think that deer will not repopulate the municipality? Do you think that they will not migrate from adjacent communities?
Bow Hunting 50% + Wounding Rate
Right Commissioner Linfante, bow hunting is humane.
Bow hunting is not an effective deer management strategy. It is nothing more than recreational hunting. In addition, it's extremely inhumane. Twenty- two published scientific surveys and studies indicate that the average wounding rate for bow hunting is over 50 percent. More than one out of every two deer shot is never retrieved, but dies a slow tortuous death from blood loss and infection. These wounded deer will be dying in residents yards traumatizing families and their children, and running out into the roads causing accidents. In addition, bow hunters often mistake resident's dogs for deer.
For example, "Preliminary Archery Survey Report" Montana Dept. of Fish Wildlife and Parks reports 51% wounding; "Archery Wounding Loss in Texas" Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (51% wounded); "Deer Hunting Retrieval Rates" Michigan Pittman-Robertson Report, Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources (58% wounded); "Effects of Compound Bow Use on Hunter Success and Crippling Rates in Iowa" Wildlife Society Bulletin (49% wounded); "Bow hunting for Deer in Vermont: Some Characteristics of the Hunters, the Hunt, and the Harvest" Vermont Fish and Game Department (63% wounded). The average wounding rate from all 22 reports is 55% accidents.
Furthermore, bow hunting will increase car-deer collisions. According to the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration, most car-deer collisions happen during hunting season. Pennsylvania's second largest insurance company (the nation's 12th largest insurer) — Erie Insurance — collected data that showed a five-fold increase in car-deer collisions on the first day of hunting, and that car-deer collisions remain high throughout hunting season. This is caused by hunters pushing deer out into the roads and panicked wounded deer running into the roads. In addition, once you kill the matriarch doe, whose job it is to safely cross her family, her orphans will run into the roads without caution. The Commissioners ignore these facts and blindly move ahead
Laura Simon, The Humane Society of the United States' wildlife biologist, writes, "Bow-hunting is undeniably inhumane and can incur crippling rates ranging from 40%-60% (Gregory 2005, Nixon et. al 2001, Moen 1989, Cada 1988, Boydston and Gore 1987, Langenau 1986, Gladfelter 1983, Stormer et. al, 1979, Downing 1971). In other words, on average, for every deer struck by an arrow, another may be crippled but not killed. The sight of wounded deer can be extremely traumatic for adults and children alike, and was one of the main reasons that a deer hunt on Fire Island in NY was called off and a immunocontraception-based program implemented instead."
Coyotes are out there, and they're here to stay. They aren't a threat to anyone, so just let them alone. We don't need any more unfounded scare tactics thrown out there getting the deer poop police and the commissionettes storming the municipal building with their torches and pitchforks calling for another slaughter.
The growth in the coyote population in Pa actually pulls back the curtain on the Pa Game Commission (PGC) and hunting groups. They have always said that hunting is necessary to control the deer populations, because there are no predators. However, when the coyote population starts to increase, the hunters complain that they are killing the deer that they want to kill and reducing the deer population, and so the PGC opens up killing coyote all year long with no "bag" limits, i.e. kill all the coyote you like. In addition, they hold coyote killing contests, and give a prize to who ever can kill the most coyotes. I guess it's like pigeon shoots, i.e. just having a lot of fun killing animals. So the PGC is now trying to decimate the most effective deer predator in Pa, for their hunter constituents. Makes a lot of sense right, when out of the other side of their mouths they say that they need to increase hunting to control the deer population, because there are no predators.
The main variable controlling wildlife populations is food supply. Wildlife populations manage themselves through their Bilological Carrying Capacity. Once deer and other wildlife populations reach their biological carrying capacity, which is controlled by food supply, their population stabilizes, i.e. reproduction slows down to maintain this natural balance. The need to manage wildlife populations is a complete ruse. BTW, it's only a coincidence that these game commisions only manage the wildlife populations that hunters want to kill for trophies. Nature seems to manage all the other non-game wildlife populations without a state agencies help
The Pa Game Commission Bias and Conflit of Interest Part (1)
Although the The Pa Game Commission (PGC) portrays itself as a wildlife “conservation” organization whose mission is to manage wildlife for the benefit of all Pennsylvanians, this portrayal is extremely misleading. The PGC is a game commission managing a statewide recreational hunting business serving its hunting constituents (only 5-6% of PA’s population and declining fast, and likely less than 1% of Mt. Lebanon residents). The PGC is funded by hunting license fees, game land timber sales, and Federal funding under the Pittman-Roberston Act (PRA). The Federal funds are distributed based upon each state’s land area and its number of hunting licenses sold.
“That is a key reason ‘scientific herd management’ through hunting is the agencies’ bread and butter. They manage herds not to prevent problems in residential areas, but to serve themselves and their hunter constituents. Promoting deer kills also serves wildlife agencies’ interests by masking the agencies’ own responsibility for deer population growth.” (White-Tailed Deer: The Phantom Menace, David Cantor, 1999.)
"Deer are [artificially] managed on a Maximum Sustained Yield (M.S.Y.) principle to produce surpluses for hunter recreation. One M.S.Y. method is to kill excesses of bucks in order to alter the natural 1 to 1 male/female sex ratio, leaving 5 to 15 females for each male. This maximizes fawn production. Another M.S.Y. method is habitat manipulation. For example, the Wildlife Division of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) in Michigan increased the deer herd from 400,000 to one million by clear cutting 1.3 million acres of state forest to create deer browse. According to officials, this was done "because a forest managed by nature cannot produce a fraction of the deer needed by half a million hunters." (The American Hunting Myth, Ron Baker, 1985)
The PGC spends more than 40% of its $80 million budget on wildlife habitat improvements for game species. The state’s deer are intentionally managed for “maximum sustained yield” to produce more targets for their hunting constituents. Contrast this with the fact that only 2.87% of their budget is directed toward non-game species, and their priorities become very clear.
So deer are nothing more than a line-item?
Way to dig in those spike heels, Cruella.
The Pa Game Commission Bias and Conflit of Interest (Part 2)
"In an interview a few years ago, Gary Alt described how he felt when he took the job as director of the PGC's deer management section. He looked at the history of deer mgt in the state and saw that every biologist who had ever suggested lowering the number of deer to a level more compatible with the amount of available habitat had been fired, transferred or quit. On the verge of offering similar advice of his own ... 'I thought, My God, I'm going to get killed.' ...When Alt was traveling the state doing lectures for sportsmen, things were so hot that he was advised to wear a bulletproof vest and have an escape route planned for any hall he entered." This article in the Pittsburgh Tribune Review reveals what's behind the curtain, in their own words.
http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/regional/s_285817.html#axzz3FmRMSdyE
This PGC's artificial propagation of the deer population and hunting are responsible for a majority of car-deer collisions, related injuries, and deaths across the state. According to the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration, most car-deer collisions happen during hunting season. Pennsylvania's second largest insurance company (the nation's 12th largest insurer) — Erie Insurance — collected data that showed a five-fold increase in deer-car collisions on the first day of hunting and that deer-car collisions remain high throughout hunting season. This is caused by hunters pushing deer out into the roads and panicked wounded deer running into the roads. In addition, once you kill the matriarch doe, whose job it is to safely cross her family, her orphans will run into the roads without caution.
Local scenarios typically follow the same pattern. A few residents complain about deer eating their tulips. The local commissioners, unsure of what to do, contact the PGC for help. The PGC's confirms this growing deer population phenomena, and recommends that the local township rescind its ban on the use of lethal weapons and hunting, and allow hunting, or sponsor a hunting program. Conveniently, the PGC fails to own any responsibility for the increase of the deer population. Even more conveniently, the PGC manages to be paid both to ”create” the problem and again to “solve” it. However, hunting doesn't reduce deer populations, but actually triggers an increase in the population - see (Reproductive Dynamics Among Disjunct White-tailed Deer Herds in Florida", Journal of Wildlife Management [1985]) This study found the incidence of twinning was 38% on hunted sites and 14% on nonhunted sites. No twinning was observed among pregnant fawns or yearlings from nonhunted areas, whereas...18% of the pregnant yearlings and...33% of the pregnant fawns from hunted areas carried twins.
The problem is that neither the Commission or the public understands this biased agenda, and typically look to the PGC as the "experts", and outsources its decision making to an agency so clearly motivated by its own biased agenda and conflicts of interest.
Why Killing Deer Doesn't Work
While it may seem counter intuitive, killing deer actually triggers an increase in deer reproduction and population. This phenomena is called compensatory reproduction and is a well documented population dynamic in deer and other mammals. When the deer herd density is temporarily reduced through hunting, culling, or trapping, there is reduced competition for food, and the number of twins and triplets born actually increases. Studies have show that after a hunt surviving females produced enough offspring to not only replace those killed, but enough to actually increase the size of the herd. This phenomenon explains why hunting as a management tool has resulted in an ever-increasing number of deer in this country. For example, a study conducted by the Dept of Wildlife and Range Sciences, School of Forest Resources and Conservation at the University of Florida sampled deer from five separate sites: three hunted and two nonhunted. The study found that the incidence of twins being born to a pregnant doe was higher on hunted land than on non hunted land. The study found the incidence of twinning was 38% on hunted sites and 14% on nonhunted sites. No twinning was observed among pregnant fawns or yearlings from nonhunted areas, whereas...18% of the pregnant yearlings and...33% of the pregnant fawns from hunted areas carried twins." (Reproductive Dynamics Among Disjunct White-tailed Deer Herds in Florida", Journal of Wildlife Management [1985]).
Laura Simon, The Humane Society of the United States's (HSUS) wildlife biologist writes: “One of the main problems with trying to manage deer through any kind of hunting or culling – as repeatedly cited during a Smithsonian Institute conference on Deer Overabundance (McShea et. al 1997) – is that deer are highly prolific, and their high reproductive rate can quickly compensate for declines in their population. They exhibit higher productivity (i.e. more twins and triplets are born, have higher survival rates, etc.) as their numbers lessen and more food becomes available for the remaining deer. In other words, they ‘bounce back’. ... We do not see any evidence that hunting or culling works over the long-term or is an answer for suburban deer conflicts.”
Killing deer is not a solution to a problem, but a commitment to a permanent problem.
Yes, a father from Upper St Clair died on October 30, 1988 while driving on a non residential road in the Bridgeville area. He may have been on 1-79.
I knew him and his family. His son was in the car and was not injured.
My family has been in this area a very long time. From this long time in Western PA, he is the only person we know that died in a deer motor vehicle collision.
I find it quite disturbing to use his death as a rationale for this slaughter. I doubt his family would approve. Do the Commissioners dare to ask?
Gee this is interesting!
"Upper St. Clair initiated its own multi-faceted whitetail deer management program in 1998 after receiving the community's approval through a referendum vote.
During the 2011-2012 season, 122 deer were removed from the township. Mark Mansfield, assistant manager for Upper St. Clair, said the township started with a controlled archery hunt at Boyce Park and then expanded to a contracted annual culling from late January to early March in recent years."
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/west/2014/02/13/Communities-ponder-deer-sterilization-program/stories/201402130045
Ms. Linfante, proclaims a USC driver died when deer came through his windshield "several years ago."
I wonder, hmmmm, how many years is several for Ms. Linfante?
If her several years is less than 17 then USC's deer management didn't prevent someone from dying, did it Kristen? (If you story is true!)
Therefore, in all likelihood it won't guarantee no one will ever die in a MTL deer/vehicle accident either.
William Mahon, who lived in USC, died on October 28, 1988 in Cecil Township when a deer went through his windshield: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2519&dat=19890103&id=1GtiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rnYNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1251,39003
After the geese in North Park were killed in 2007 I was exposed to the role wildlife play as a source of comfort to people who are depressed or grieving in some way, and I wasn't quite expecting it.... I listened to people and their stories for hours and hours. I still hear occasionally from one lady who had been going through a horrible divorce and child custody battle. She found solace in visiting the goose flock at the park and even named one particular goose who would come to greet her every day. That goose "Sophie" was rounded up and killed and the lady in question came very close to a nervous breakdown. No matter what you think of naming wildlife or of feeling a "bond" with them like the people I spoke to, whether or not you can understand that, don't ever underestimate what these municipal executions of wildlife do to people who are going through whatever experience of grieving or sorrow. If Karma exists this is Bad.
5:44 pm. Now i remember... there used to a haunted house on Route 50 that everyone would go to.... maybe its still there.
In 1988, Mr. Mahon died because someone else on Rt 50 hit the deer and then it came through his windshield.
USC would never use his death to justify the development of a deer slaughter that is horrifying the entire region. They did not use it to justify the beginning of their deer cull program either.
Of note, in 1982, Cecil tried to lower the speed limit on Route 50 by 20 miles per hour. They wanted to go from 55 to 35. The state would only allow the speed limit to go down to 45 mph.
Nevertheless, no one in Mt Lebanon should be traveling 45 mph anywhere, right?
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2519&dat=19820902&id=Ta9dAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jl0NAAAAIBAJ&pg=5045,289444
Wow, Linfante has to dig back into the archives to 1988 to find a neighboring community driver killed by a deer accident.
Gee, Kristen, a woman was tragically killed and decapitated by a flying manhole cover on Carson Street in 1992.
Tragic things happens and we do our best to eliminate the causes, but to use them as a hysterical rational to kill, especially a 25 years old event, is absurd.
Now I understand why I could never find anything about that horrible accident. I was searching for the accident to have taken place in USC. And I didn't look back far enough.
Thank you, All, for providing the information.
Elaine
When was the last time a motor vehicle accident was caused by inattentive driving? I can think of 4 in MTL so far in 2015. But the Corn Police and the Corn Commission want poop-free Chemlawns for their moneyed friends. It's actually insane for anyone to continue to beat the "in the name of public safety" drum.
Linfante cannot be trusted. She shapes arguments according to her agenda and not according to fact and that is very harmful to a community. She may be effective in the theatrical arena, but theatrics are not appropriate when managing real life situations.
Shame on Mt. Lebanon for electing this divisive and lying individual.
Soooo, what's the plan? Deer will be killed this week in unsafe areas.
We're stuck with Linfante till 2016. I have asked her to resign repeatedly. She's not budging. We have three other commissioners who also voted for this plan. John Bendel, Dave Brumfield, and Steve Silverman have also voted for this plan.
I have a volunteer to video the horrible killing on Connor Road. Anyone else willing to step forward? These videos must be shared. Other than taking legal action, I don't know what else to do.
The next commission meeting is March 10. Deer will be killed by then. I'm praying that nobody gets hurt.
Elaine
I hate to ask but have any deer been killed yet?? i've never been so depressed about anything so much in my life.. animals losing their lives just because some snobby lebo person feels there are too many deer. i was at the last township meeting and there were so many excellent speakers but the one that move me and touched my heart was the man from the pgh symphony.. does anyone have his name or is there a way to listen to a podcast?? thankyou..
Unapproved comment at 9:52 PM, yes, you are correct about the Washington Road house. Sorry that I cannot post your comment.
Elaine
Game commission phone number:
(717) 787-4250
Option #2 Special permits
Not that it will help.
Elaine
9:44 The speaker was Randolph Kelly who lives on Lyndhurst and is a member of the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra.
9:44 pm The podcast is available on this website:
http://mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?NID=2151
You have to click on Commission and then go to the 2/23/15 meeting. I was struck by the Pgh Symphony member's comments too, although I really was so moved listening to everyone's comment that I could only listen in doses.
The Associated Press picked up the Connor Road deer protest, so a few extra papers published it throughout the state and elsewhere.
Meanwhile, a town outside NY is embroiled in controversy about coyotes and the state expert on coyotes indicated the "coexistence" was the best long-term approach. Sigh. He wouldn't last long with the PA Game Commission.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/upscale-ny-suburb-embroiled-wily-debate-coyotes-29309326
9:44 I don't know if any deer have been killed yet but I know that Brian Benner is required to submit the number of deer that he has killed by the 10th of every month to the PGC.
WWJD?(What Would Jesus Do?)
Kristen Linfante's example is of a man driving on a freeway in a rural Pennsylvania county, not Allegheny County? And all this time she made it seem like it happened in USC? AND it occurred more than a quarter century ago? Linfantinsane.
Kip's Deer Processing in Carnegie has not been notified. kipsdeerprocessing.net Steve Feller said in a Discussion Session that Kip's would be doing the deer processing.
Dr. Jeffrey Pope, the Monroeville veterinarian who was on KDKA Mike Pintek's show a week before I was on his show, said that the meat will most likely go to landfills.
ALL the local food banks have been called and NONE of them will be able to accept the deer meat.
This is exactly what happened in Season 1 and Season 2 of the deer culling in 2006-2008.
We were told that shots will be taken from a platform. Has anyone seen any platforms built?
The Game Commission's special permit is here.
To contact the PA Game Commission Special Permits Office, call (717) 787-4250 ext 2.
Elaine
Yep, 12:40. Where is the mayhem, carnage and blood on Mt. Lebanon streets from deer accidents?
Linfante is ignoring pedestrian incidents on Washington where people have been seriously injured in a quest to reduce rare deer incidents.
plus she has taken the police away from watching for DUIs, speeding and texting while driving, so they can protect corn feeders... that are luring deer INTO Mt. Lebanon and onto our roadways.
An example of how crazy this woman really is. Watch the last commissioners meeting. The audience gets a little rowdy while someone is speaking and what does Linfante do. Raises her hands, egging the audience on to get even more boisterous.
This from the women that was going to clear the chambers a month or so ago when the audience got loud.
"As districts adopt the program, officials must explain to parents and children as young as kindergarten what to do in an active-shooter situation.
Mt. Lebanon school psychologists who trained in Bethel Park last year and relayed the lessons to staff, worked with the municipality's police to develop “scripts” for teachers to discuss strategies with kids, said district spokeswoman Cissy Bowman.
“There are a lot of interpretations of how to share it with kids,” said Mt. Lebanon police Deputy Chief Aaron Lauth. “Some districts go full-tilt with simulated SWAT situations. ... We didn't think we'd do that.”
Elementary teachers keep it simple by defining an intruder to kids and emphasizing that they should follow teachers' instructions on whether to barricade the door, evacuate through a door or window or counter an attacker by throwing things, running in zigzags or making lots of noise."
http://triblive.com/mobile/7766543-96/training-alice-district
WOULDN'T YOU THINK THE FIRST STEP IN DEFINING AN INTRUDER WOULD BE SPOTTING SOMEONE WITH A GUN IN A SCHOOL GUN-FREE ZONE?
NO IN LEBO THE LOGIC IS... LETS CONDITION EVERYONE TO GET USE TO THE IDEA OF SOMEONE CARRYING A GUN NEAR A SCHOOL SO NO ONE THINKS TO ALERT THE AUTHORITIES.
On the other hand, in the interest of public safety, we'll have police on high alert guarding corn feeders from people without guns that want to save deer.
If this wasn't so absurd you'd want to laugh hysterically.
OK, this is waaay too easy. I'm not an attorney, but it looks like a breach of contract.
Benner's contract
What kind of an attorney is David Brumfield, if he hasn't figured this out?
Elaine
911: "what is the nature of your emergency?"
Parent: "I'm not sure, but I think I just saw someone with a rifle going into the woods very close to (Markham, Howe, Seton Lasalle)!"
911: "It's probably the deer slayers. Call us back if you actually see any students bleeding. Have a nice day."
9:04 Of note, the ALICE program is not grounded in research as the school district has told everyone. Try a google scholar search on the program. If it were grounded in research, you would find some information there. Also, examine what youth violence researchers have stated about the program.
Of the "certified" professionals ask yourself "certified in what??" Money is being wasted on this program and providing districts with the false sense of security that comes from throwing money at nothing. Less money will be spent on programming and resources that make a difference in promoting health in young children and families -- those are investments that pay off in the long run.
Until Pennsylvania wises up, expect money to be spent on ridiculous ALICE programs that inadvertently may encourage violence by desensitizing children to antisocial behavior and failing to meet their needs.
The next Baldwin Township commissioners meeting is tomorrow at 7:30 PM. Address is 10 Community Park Drive 15234
That's part of Dan Miller's area ( and Wayne Fontana is the senator).
Elaine
Elaine, are you talking about the same Attorney Brumfield that said he hadn't read any evidence that there was anything bad about artificial turf?
"Lawyers occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." —Winston Churchill
Ive been trying to understand the current Commission and their ProDeer Kill Agenda.. despite what a LOT of their citizens feel they have have pushed this down our throats like it's a true emergency. Ms. Linfante might of had the support of the new progessive liberal young familites during the election.. but even though they are the majority in MtLebanon (in Allegheny County, outside the city of Pittsburgh, Obama recd the most votes of all the other communities) there is another powerful minority that runs this town..ie the sports families and the 60+ gardeners.
Will there be any accounting of:
1) % of killed deer tested for CWD
2) detailed results of those tests
3) number of deer sent for processing
4) where deer were processed
5) costs of processing deer and who pays for it
6) specific names and locations of food banks receiving venison from this kill
7) actual pounds of venison realized from this kill
8) any screening of venison beyond CWD (venison taken by kills is exempt from USDA oversight)
9) % or pounds of venison deemed unfit for human consumption and discarded
10) # of deer not processed for food banks
11) list of landfills or other disposal sites for deer not processed for food banks
12) OT costs for police, public works and any other MTL expenses as a result of this program
They are making claims this is a "win-win". Demand they provide data to substantiate their claims. This year. Every year.
Reqest video of the killing and killed deer. Their experts claim it is quick and painless. Make them prove it.
Let me preface this comment by saying that a major reason I moved to Mt Lebanon was its excellent library.
I cannot live without books (like Thomas Jefferson once said).
Saying that, it has come to my attention the a primary leader of the yearly Garden Tour is an expert in cultivating ROSES. Deer absolutely love roses. He is slated to speak again on gardens and roses in a couple of weeks.
So is the library and its garden tour pro-slaughter the deer in our public parks where kids are witnessing deer slayers building corrals?
This is enough for me to NOT STEP FOOT in the Mt Lebanon Library.
So please clarify: is the library pro-slaughter?
12:21 not a bad suggestion, but we can't even get them to provide a real count of the number of deer in the municipality.
The only real survey (and we paid good money to conduct it two years in a row) Linfante dismissed. Instead she proclaims an expert she talked to on the phone estimates we have 100/sq mi.
So told me, how are you going to make these people do anything?
Send information requests sooner rather than waiting for meetings. Waiting gives them more time to stall.
Generate coherent, specific requests for information. Cc everyone. Commissioners, agencies, consultants, citizens, media.
If not acknowledged within 24 hours, repeat and ask if and when these questions will be addressed.
Get specific times for completion. Do not settle for "we'll take it under consideration".
Ask WHEN questions will be answered.
At each meeting, cite your requests, and ask if they have an answer for them.
Follow up after the meetings.
Document, document, document. Bring it up when they run for office. Bring it up next year when they try to repeat this.
Don't be bullied. Stand up for your beliefs. Keep fighting the good fight.
12:43 PM, I have never missed a Garden Tour in 24 years. It is a wonderful event. I visited Carolyn Byham's gardens, Barbara Logan's, Rob Papke's, Brodbeck's, London's, and I'm sure I am forgetting orhers who have been plotting to kill the deer for years. I wouldn't go after the Library because they are just trying to find ways to raise money. I do have a problem with the gardeners who are using the excuse that it is a public safety issue.
Elaine
Any time work is done outside, Pa One Call must be contacted. When I was having a fence put in the back yard, Mt. Lebanon required that I contact PA One Call. Benner failed to do that. It will be at least a week before he can fire a bullet in this town. The utility companies must mark all their lines. That brings it to the week of March 9, 2015 and can only go till March 31, 2015. Merlin, you can get out of this contract at any time.
Elaine
The following commissioner's report appeared on Lebomag on May 2014.
The question residents-- how many of those $130,000 in improvements for pedestrian safety have been implemented?
We know pedestrians have been seriously injured in MTL recently, we're not talking about a rare incident in Cecil that occurred more than a quarter of a century ago! These incidents are happening now Commissioner Linfante and they involve your neighbors. What... safety for MTL lives aren't important unless deer are involved?
http://lebomag.com/17627/commissioners-report-3/
"As most know, we have had some very serious accidents between cars and pedestrians. These accidents have resulted in permanent or long-term effects, physically and emotionally, for all involved. Let’s use our safety resources, be alert and be safe.
Additional Resources and Enhancements
Traffic safety experts have given a number of presentations to the Commission regarding opportunities to improve safety throughout Mt Lebanon. Some of these items do cost money but should be addressed. It would be great to find the funds to tackle all the items at once, but the cost is great.
The estimated cost for potential enhancements would be around $130,000 but roads would be safer. I believe safety should be one of our top priorities and the money would be well spent. If you are interested in knowing the list, please contact me."
I think you hit on something,, i forgot about.. the Public Library and its group of volunteer garderners.. Last summer i was walking my small dog by the Library gardens and she happened to step foot in the area to have a sniff..IMMEDIATELY,, we both got reprimanded by the gardeners..i feel most of these people working inside and outside the Public Library are elitist snobby New York Times reading negative personality types..
Just think, when the end of May arrives and Benner doesn't come close to the goal of 150 deer killed, his company will become the joke of internet searches for competent deer managers.
(Of course, they may fudge authenticating the actual "harvest" since no one has said how Benner will prove his take.)
"A fundraiser for the Mt. Lebanon Public Library, the tour averages eight gardens each year.
"With an area of 6 square miles, Mt. Lebanon has approximately 33,000 residents, and we're glad that many of them are gardeners," library director Cynthia Richey said. "The community has been recognized by many organizations for its trees, gardens and green spaces, things the residents really seem to care about."
oh brother. Not seeing much support for animals from the library.
The theme this year should be "blood red roses"
The pre-tour party is the day before at the library. No doubt the main deer-haters will be in attendance.
12:59 Elaine - They can create selection criteria for their garden tour that reflects a peaceful and sustainable approach to gardening in a region that is inhabited by wild tailed deer.
Or is it like this:
Q: How does your garden grow?
A: By slaughtering the neighborhood deer in corrals.
A tale of two communities.
"Hastings-on-Hudson, an affluent NY community has the opportunity to be recognized as an innovative, humane community. Even if the plan fails, they can at least say we tried!
Mt. Lebanon, an affluent community solidifies it reputation as a blood-thirsty community that doesn't care about nature or the environment.
Good going commissioners! I suggest you install a digital sign at the "crown jewel" field with constantly updated numbers above which the sign will read-- MTL Deer killed to date!
Let the world know how you're doing.
"Under the plan, which will begin this winter if approved by the state Department of Environmental Conservation, as many as 90 percent of the does in Hastings will be tranquilized, inoculated with the contraceptive, then tagged and released. The deer population is estimated at up to 120, a density of 60 per square mile. That’s three times the deer density that some studies have tied to a decline in plant and animal species.
The goal is a 35 to 40 percent reduction in five years.
Stephanie Boyles Griffin, a senior director at the Humane Society of the United States, said, “There are thousands of communities in the U.S. that are looking for alternative ways to manage the deer populations.” If successful, she said, “Hastings would be the first open suburb in the U.S. to manage deer exclusively through the use of immunocontraception.”
http://wkbn.com/2013/08/03/ny-village-trying-birth-control-to-trim-deer-herd/
Correction for 1:17 pm.
End of March not May as submitted.
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