On October 4, 2013, I shared a video with Lebo Citizens readers where plastic bags were used to suffocate deer. I never watched this video, and never will, but here it is:
On Tuesday evening, the Commission will be discussing the potential locations of this horrible process during the Commission Discussion Session.
Please attend Tuesday's commission meeting and let the commissioners know during Citizen Comments if you feel this is wrong. The commission meeting starts at 8:00 PM in the Commission Chambers (the Municipal Building located on Washington Road across from Sesame Inn).
Looking for talking points?
- Tom Moertel has put together data of 75 weeks of car accidents and four years of deer incidents. How dangerous are deer?
- Conflict of interest The deer expert billed Mt. Lebanon $12,000 for a deer management plan, was the sole bidder to his plan, and was awarded the contract to fulfill (execute?) his plan.
- Close proximity to Hoover Elementary, Markham Elementary and homes. These parks are frequented by children, dog walkers, golfers, and adults who enjoy the outdoors.
- Lyme disease Mice, not deer, transmit Lyme Disease bacteria to ticks.
- Cruelty to animals and inhumane method used to kill the deer (See above for starters. More throughout this blog.)
- Why culls are expensive and haven't worked (Visit the deerfriendly.org page for examples.)
- How this is gaining statewide, national and international attention. We are an embarrassment to the world. Stop the deer culling! As of 7:52 AM, there are 2,533 supporters on the petition.
- The manipulation of data collected by the Mt. Lebanon Police with deer incidents vs. deer accidents, 2013 aerial survey counts vs. 2014 aerial survey counts, exaggerations of deer encounters by elected officials, and inaccurate Commission meeting minutes.
- Or just state your name, address, and why you are opposed to deer culling in Mt. Lebanon
Update February 7, 2015 6:39 PM I have been told that a leaflet was dropped off to Mt. Lebanon businesses today. The Mount Lebanon Deer Killing Program
Update February 9, 2015 7:47 PM This was sent to me by a Lebo Citizens reader. Thanks, you know who you are!
Update February 9, 2015 7:47 PM This was sent to me by a Lebo Citizens reader. Thanks, you know who you are!
124 comments:
Great work, Elaine.
Lebo Citizens: This one may be the one to come out for, if you only come out for one.
My 5-year-old will be coming with me. She loves nature. She loves the deer. I can explain hunting to her; I can't explain mini-deer concentration camps.
Again, this is the one to come out for--like The Newcomers Tax event about this time last year: We need 100+ there. And we need people unafraid to speak truth to power.
- Jason M.
I was going to post my comment on the last thread, but since you started a new one, I guess I'll post it here. Late to the game.
Lebo citizens paid $12,000.00 for a 9 1/2 page (pro-kill bias) Deer Mgt Options - Feasibility Assessment, which was filled with inaccurate data and biased opinion based on no credible scientific reference, that was on the professional quality level of about a high school term paper.
Would someone please bring a sign-up sheet to the protest, to get everyone on one email list?
Elaine
Merlin Benner's plans for putting plastic bags over the deer's heads method is apparantly the same plastic bag method that White Buffalo (DeNicola) was video taped using in Summit County Ohio, with testimony from several veterinarians who describe the killing method as inhumane - see below.
In 2004, undercover investigator Steve Hindi secretly videotaped White Buffalo’s deer killing program in Summit County, Ohio. On 3/3/04, THE CLEVELAND PLAIN DEALER reported: "Instead of showing quick deaths, six days of footage show deer suffering after they were shot, missed shots and rangers putting plastic bags over animals’ heads as they thrash, Hindi said." You can see this video footage, along with testimony from several veterinarians who describe the method of killing as "inhumane" here - http://www.sharkonline.org:80/index.php/akroncruelty-com .
White Buffalo paid a $17,500 settlement to Steve Hindi in response to a lawsuit that claimed Hindi’s hidden cameras were “illegally seized and damaged”. In a recent article, DeNicola admitted to deleting some of Hindi’s footage of the killing.
An example of the intense stress, panic, and struggle deer experience when trapped
Copy and paste the URL link below into your browser to view a short video that gives an example of the intense stress, panic, and struggle that deer experience when trapped. The clover trap in the video is much smaller than the corrals that Benner will be using, but the same deer panic response will be triggered once the corral gate closes and traps the deer inside, resulting in broken legs and necks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XezJJNzg3nY
This might be of interest to those wanting to record the deer corrals.
Anonymous.
http://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=682025021087125104028007075123074121029022041052070026086028018005003007120002081121054013022125049112043066117020127072102024007071082078061112013127115070078101125089001060110000122112089111087097120028&EXT=pdf&TYPE=1
THERES NO WAY IN HELL I WANT MY KIDS TO WITNESS THIS !
10:56, I understand what you're adivising, but that suggest that the local police dept., solicitor or Benner may attempt to censor videos taken in a public location where there is no guaranteed right to privacy.
Which is odd seeing that neither the comissioners, chief or game commission have any interest in investigating people shooting guns in Mt. Lebanon.
But they may attempt to prosecute people shooting video.
That'll be a good public trial that will furrher undermine the community's reputation.
11:36 I'm not making any kind of inference and certainly NOT advising anyone at any time what to do. The intent was to give out information and nothing more. Please do not misconstrue my posting!
How would they prosecute people for taking video on public property? Good luck to whoever takes on that Quixotic endeavor.
I will say, if I see someone putting a plastic bag over any animal's head in an attempt to suffocate said animal, I am going to intervene. I'm reasonably certain the outcome won't bode well for the individual attempting said suffocation.
To be clear, I support safe and responsible hunting. What our Commission is attempting to push through is neither. This whole thing would be comical if it weren't putting lives at risk. It will also severely damage the credibility of legitimate hunting as a recreational outlet. And should the knuckleheads hired to pull the trigger miss and kill someone, I can already see the juxtaposed headlines somehow blaming gun owners as a whole. (It's disturbing that those who so strongly advocate violence in this case are the least likely to have any experience with it.)
The safety aspect stands apart and aside from yet another move by our illustrious Board of Commissioners that calls into questions ethics, municipal law and, at the heart of this debacle, the simple principle of honesty. Elaine's RTK revealed, as most of them have, that some in our community do enjoy casting aside the refreshing yet modest sheen of transparency in favor of a personal agenda to ensure their tiny clique of friends can traipse through the raggedy cobblestone streets satiated in their desire to check the box.
Enough. Elaine has performed, via this blog, what I consider an invaluable public service to not just taxpayers but ALL residents of this community, including children. Most of you have to feel some level of responsibility to pay her back.
So get involved.
It takes time. It takes energy. It takes the will to see it through. But nobody will arrest you. Nobody will go to jail for speaking out. If you fear a neighbor closing out your relationship or someone in the community seeking "payback", well, you've identified the problem. Don't speak out and continue being victimized. Or find your resolve, recognize right from wrong and pay back Elaine's efforts. Step off the sidelines and into the game.
Positive change can happen. Run for office. Write to the ethics board. Challenge municipal officials publicly. Contact the media. Contact your state officials. If you suspect something more serious, contact the Department of Justice. But do something. Those are your rights. And others in our nation's history have died so you could exercise those rights. As I type this, I fully realize the irony of my next sentence. Posting comments on a blog is NOT a solution to any of the problems we face in this community. I don't know about any of you but I'm not going to be bullied and pushed out of here. Not happening.
If any of you are looking for ideas or suggestions, reach out to Elaine privately. She's a smart person and has gained quite the street-level education with respect to how things really work around here.
Sorry 10:56, poor choice of words, understood you weren't advising.
For myself, If I get the opportunity to record the cull & kill on public property, I will do so and relish the opportunity to defend my right to take those videos in the court and the court of public opinion.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pets/pet-tales/2015/02/07/pet-tales-controlling-deer-pittsburgh-suburbs-Safe-paw-ice-melt-cat-show/stories/201502070008#http://ppgmobile.libercus.net/pets/pet-tales/2015/02/07/pet-tales-controlling-deer-pittsburgh-suburbs-Safe-paw-ice-melt-cat-show/stories/201502070008?&_suid=142333088967506493168631568551
The MTL spinmeisters are working overtime! So much for the Post Gazette presenting fair and balanced information.
The public comments at the end are interesting as is the fact that Laura Simon, wildlife ecologist that has written about the MTL efforts isn't mentioned once.
Propaganda at its most obvious from what was once a "reputable" newspaper.
If there ever was a time for citizens to speak up, write there representatives/commissioners - this is it!
The Pittsburgh Post Gazette has become a joke!!!
Their columnists must have all graduated from the Ouiji Board School of Investigative Reporting.
Her'e's a fact from the Trib:
"Counting deer from an airplane with an infrared camera, contractors saw 196 in February 2014 compared with 342 at about the same time last year.
Because the commission hadn't approved any deer-culling activities between surveys, officials wondered whether there was a fluke in the count.
“(Aerial surveys) are considered the best you can do for deer, and sometimes the best you can do isn't the most accurate,” Benner said. “For a fairly rapid and inexpensive survey, this is considered state-of-the-art.”
So we have 196 deer in 2014 according to an expensive aerial survey! Only 342 were counted by another aerial survey in 2013.
Commissioner Linfante declares her expert said we have 100 deer/sq mi or over 600 total.
Now this is where the Post-Gazette really shows off its responsible reporting skills.
John Hayes of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette writes on February 1,2014: "With thousands of white-tailed deer causing what has been called a public safety hazard in Mt. Lebanon, council last week requested approval for an experimental taxpayer-funded program that would spend $500 each for the trapping and euthanization of 150 does."
Got that thousands, not a couple of hundred, not 600... thousands, as in a number followed by three zeros.
Now today we read in a tear-jerker of a PG article: "The goal is to kill 150 deer in a suburb that has about 34,000 people and about 400 deer. Mt. Lebanon commissioners voted 3-1 to approve this plan, which will start when the Pennsylvania Game Commission gives the go-ahead."
About 400 deer! What happened to the thousands that Hayes wrote about? They pack up their bags and head out Dodge, knowing they aren't wanted.
What about Linfante's 600? Are the preparing to make a Thermopylae Spartan-like last stand on Cedar Blvd.? Mother doe defending their poor accident mutilated fawns with their last drop of blood.
Spare us the tear-jerking misinformation PG, what abput the corralled fawns in the corral that'll watch their mothers take the first bullet to the head. No tears for them, hun!
Last, but not least PG, don't mention the state-of-the-art 2014 aerial survey that only found 196 deer. That just won't support the cull & kill.
Know what, the PG isn't worth the paper it's printed on for information, in my opinion.
Pittsburgh PG should change its name from Post Gazette to Patently Gullible.
2:31, I did contact Mr. Hayes regarding the “thousands of deer” comment and his reply is below.
“The state Game Commission estimates deer populations in areas called Wildlife Management Units, not in areas as small as townships. The Game Commission and Mt. Lebanon officials agree that deer move in, out and through Mt. Lebanon all the time. The estimate they're using is from habitat evaluations, deer-vehicle collisions, road kills, reported deer-human conflicts and an aerial survey commissioned by the township some time ago. No one is sure how many deer are in Mt. Lebo at any one time, but wildlife officials say the woodlands in and surrounding the region probably contain thousands of deer that move in and out of the township.
I hope that as part of the proposed reduction program they'll come up with a more specific number.”
Nick M.
Of the talking points listed in this thread, Tom Moertel's "How dangerous are deer?" is the best. The responsibilities of local governments are to provide police and fire protection, and to create and maintain infrastructure. (We libertarians also agree that a proper role for government is to prevent fraud, although history has shown that it is difficult for a government to prevent fraud if it is engaged in it itself - but I digress.)
Are deer a public safety concern in Mt. Lebanon? - of course. The question is to what degree. As Mr. Moertel points out, "In Mt. Lebanon, deer account for less than 2% of the accidents that hurt people." And should you be so unfortunate as to hit a deer are you likely to be injured? No. Mr. Moertel writes, "According to Mt. Lebanon's accident and deer-incident records, if an accident involves a deer, the accident is much less likely than usual to injure someone: the risk is only 1/9th as great. While 35% of all car accidents in Mt. Lebanon result in injury, only 3.8% of car accidents involving deer do." So I ask, is spending $75,000 on a <2% risk a good use of public money? I don't think so; especially when there are other, more pressing issues concerning pubic safety that might be, at least somewhat, addressed with that money.
Your safety on Mt. Lebanon's roads is more likely to be compromised by a drunk driver, someone blowing through a stop sign, inattention to driving whilst talking on a cell-phone, aggressive driving, speed, damaged infrastructure, or a host of other affronts to the public's safety. And if one intends to argue with Tom Moertel on this subject he (or she) had best come prepared to do major battle; although I don't know Tom personally, he strikes me as one who does not suffer fools lightly.
4:22 PM, Hey Nick, if you buy that load of BS excuse for Mr. Hayes using thousands of deer in Mt. Lebanon, I have a bridge I can give you a good deal on. :)
Nick ... By that logic, Mt Lebanon's population must number more than 100,000 yinzers ... based on the southern & northern daily migration of these yinzers through our bubble.
Hey PG - Yinz can't be serious...
Nick, thank you for the information.
Based on the info you provided that makes Mt. Lebanon's corral & kill even more rediculous. They're going to attempt to reduce 'our' deer population by just 150 over a period of two months.
But the game commission and MTL officials concede thousands of deer move in and out of MTL all the time.
So for $75,000 what will we achieve, a reduction of 10%, 5% or even less of the deer that wander through our yards, parks and roads?
This is nonsensical. To achieve the desired results this is a county or Wildlife Management Unit problem, one community acting independently achieves nothing.
I believe Kelly Fraasch was lobbying for a plan that involved at the very least our neighboring municipalities.
That sounds like a real plan!
Mr. Gideon, excellent points based on Mr. Moertel's usual good work.
An easier link to download . Anonymous.
http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3476&context=wmlr
For talking points, please consider Lyme's Disease info as well. The culling of deer will not keep deer tics off your property, especially given the rebound phenomena and other sources of deer tics.
The Department of Health provides the statistics on Lyme's Disease by county and region throughout the state. They also provide recommendations on prevention.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1866194&mode=2
Prevention tips for your property:
How can I create a tick-safe zone around my house?
a. Use landscaping techniques to create a tick-safe zone around homes, parks, and recreational areas. The ticks that transmit LD thrive in humid wooded areas, and quickly die in sunny dry areas. Here are some simple landscaping techniques to help reduce tick populations.
(1) Remove leaf litter and clear tall grasses and brush around homes and edges of lawns.
(2) Place wood chips or gravel between lawns and wooded areas to restrict tick migration to recreational areas.
(3) Mow the lawn and clear brush and leaf litter frequently.
(4) Keep the ground under bird feeders clean.
(5) Stack wood neatly and in dry areas.
(6) Keep playground equipment, decks and patios away from yard edges and trees.
(7) Ticks that transmit LD can be found on deer, therefore:
(a) Do not feed deer on your property.
(b) Construct physical barriers to discourage deer from entering your yard.
(c) Check with garden centers, nurseries, or local extension agents to learn about deer-resistant plants.
(8) Bait boxes that treat wild rodents with acaracide (insecticide that kills ticks) are available for home use. Properly used, these boxes have been shown to reduce ticks around homes by more than 50%. The treatment is similar to control fleas and ticks on pets.
I don't buy into the information that Mr. Hayes states, just wanted to share his reply.
The only logical thing I get from his response is that because massive amounts of deer are constantly moving from one place to another, culling deer in one location won't solve anything. In other words, you get rid of a few here and almost immediately more will move in, kind of like a vacuum.
Nick M.
7:17 I think the massive amounts of deer are lies. One day, I biked 63 miles on the Great Allegheny Passage, pretty much by myself although this was part of a small fundraiser so other cyclists went through the passage occasionally. During that time, I saw one deer. I could go on with anecdotal stories but I'd like the proof on these deer counts. Show me the deer.
We're in agreement Nick except I can find the claim that maybe a thousand or two are in the Wildlife Management Unit- whatever that encompasses.
That information does indeed glaringly point out the absurdity of one municipality culling deer on its own.
Benner will make his $75,000 + $12,000 and we'll still have deer eating our plants and running into cars.
Benner should be required to use the WasteZero Pay-As-You-Throw bags.
The municipality could recoup the money, and the deer would still be able to breathe through holes in the cheap bags.
With regard to Linda of Pet Tales fame, animal advocates in the area have long known that she's no friend to animals (she continued to support the awful owner of the despicable Tiger Ranch cat "sanctuary" even after the woman in question had been arrested and even after witnessing the horrible photos of her "victims" in court). After a number of articles covering the court case that differed bizarrely from other reporting, she was mysteriously removed from the assignment and replaced. That's the last time they let her out of the Pet Tales office, I bet. She is an utter embarrassment and needs to go. I did hear that some people refer to her as Roller Derby Girl.
Here is Linda Fuoco's comment on her article. It's an open post. Please feel free to add comments. I don't know how long mine will stay up. https://www.facebook.com/linda.w.fuoco/posts/10205094572818486?comment_id=10205098319712156¬if_t=comment_mention
Linda Fuoco is a Mt. Lebanon resident. I see that our PIO and her son-in-law have Linda's back. Yes, Mt. Lebanon IS Spin City, Bruce.
Elaine
Morgans might want to explain how she sees Fuoco worked hard on her story.
She presents one source of information and completely ignores the evidence presented by the wildlife biologists, or the numbers from MTL's own aerial deer survey.
Morgans... ask Fuoco had she arrived at 400 deer count!
10:48 The first thing that came to my mind in reading Fuoco's ridiculous article was this:
You think that deer need to be culled because you witnessed an accident resulting in an injured/killed deer.
Do you think, Ms. Fuoco, that pedestrians and children should also been culled in Mt Lebanon?
They have been injured/killed too.
At some point, some genius is going to illustrate that motor vehicle collisions and accidents in Mt Lebanon are skyrocketing. The increase in deer-motor vehicle collisions are correlated with this trend toward reckless, high speed, heavily traveled streets.
It's not just the deer that are in harm's way. Ms Fuoco, I hope you don't learn this the hard way.
Lots of excellent comments posted under Linda Fuoco's article. http://www.post-gazette.com/pets/pet-tales/2015/02/07/pet-tales-controlling-deer-pittsburgh-suburbs-Safe-paw-ice-melt-cat-show/stories/201502070008
Is it February Sweeps for newspapers too?
Elaine
One symptom of institutional corruption is local newspapers that are willing to toss ethics and truth aside to satisfy the needs of a local government.
Ahem, Post Gazette & Mt Lebanon.
Wonder how often this occurs?
Fuoco should research her own paper's archives rather taking info from Lebo's spinmeister.
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/west/2014/02/13/Communities-ponder-deer-sterilization-program/stories/201402130045
Deer killing insomnia. Thanks, Mt Lebanon.
Point is though that White Buffalo had 4 months to bait deer and they couldn't do it, so the cull was canceled in Bloomington, IN.
Genius.
http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/bloomington-parks-department-cancels-griffy-lake-deer-cull-77869/
Nick M. 7:17 PM
My point at (4:48 PM) or the point I was trying to make, was that you called John Hayes out on an intentional and ridiculous LIE he made in his article promoting the Mt. Lebanon deer killing program as a scare tactic to get Lebo resident buy-in for the deer slaughter. He had no idea how to respond to being confronted on his LIE, and so he dug deeper into in BS bag and handed you how the Pa Game Commission (PGC) estimates deer pop. in areas called Wildlife Mgt Units, blah, blah, blah, which really had no relation to him saying that there were thousands of deer in Mt. Lebanon in his article. People reading his article believe that he is saying that there are thousands of deer in Mt. Lebanon, and that was his intention. So his BS excuse was just a BS excuse, and it should be noted and recognized as such.
John Hayes is a totally biased pro-hunting and culling columnist, and a mouthpiece for the PGC and apparently Lebo's PIO, who feeds him info to promote hunting in Mt. Lebanon. He has absolutely NO credibility, and nothing he writes should be considered factual or objective. Most of his articles are riddled with inaccuracies and pro-hunting propaganda. He's basically a hack, and should be given no credible standing at all.
No doubt that Mt. Lebanon's PIO (Public Info. Officer) Susan Fleming Morgans got Linda Fuoco to write this deer demonizing article to try to get Lebo resident buy-in for the slaughter, and to respond to HSUS' wildlife biologist, Laura Simon's letters in the PG and the Almanac. Morgan's even defending Linda on her FB site. What a coincidence. What I find very disturbing about this article is how Linda Fuoco acts like she loves deer and wildlife, appealing to that demographic in her opening remarks, and then finally accepts that they must be killed at the end. That's just basically evil.
I stopped reading Linda Fuoco's column years ago, i.e. she lost all credibility in my eyes. I read one of her columns saying that you shouldn't give your dog people names, because they're just dogs - WTF? My first thought was that this woman doesn't even like dogs. Then the next month she was promoting the killing of geese. I thought there is something wrong with this woman. How can she even have a pet column? She just puts on this phony (I love animals) front to keep her job.
RmR 9:24 PM, Yes, I do remember that horrible "Tiger Ranch" animal cruelty event, and I do remember Linda Fuoco supporting this animal abuser, which I thought was unbelievable. It was like supporting OJ Simpson, with all the incriminating evidence. And I do remember her disappearance, i.e. she was likely pulled off that story for such bad judgment.
So Linda, I quit reading your column years ago, so you aren't losing a reader, because of your biased deer killing column. I wish you the karma you deserve for being Susan Fleming Morgans puppet and for promoting the deer slaughter. And Linda, with all due "respect", I'll give my dog any name I want to. So screw you!!!
“If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.” Will Rogers
"Deer killing insomnia." Welcome to my world, 2:01 AM. Kristen Linfante mocked me for saying that. I didn't sleep for months during the first two deer culls and every time it has come up since then, either insomnia or nightmares, if I do fall asleep. Shooting right next to my house is something I will never forget.
I have been told that Kathy Hecker, the humane officer for Animal Friends, signed the petition with these comments:
"Most residents enjoy the deer and don't mind their presence. Deer caught this way to be killed will end up injured and suffering in the pens. If there is a question about this, perhaps the first pen and kill event should be videotaped. Then let the people decide if it is humane."
Elaine
Linfante, Morgans and their blood thirsty friends should be made to pull the trigger on the deer in the first corral shoot!
On pages 197-198 of the RTK granted January 29, Susan Morgans was feeding info to PG's John Hayes.
Elaine
8:10 AM, I think they would enjoy that.
Elaine
Out of the box thinking is what we tend to ask our candidates as they begin to run for office so I see a commissioner did just that. When I first heard about sterilization I thought it was a joke and then I found articles that had information about it (for and against). However as time has moved on the program has evolved. I have read all the articles and find it a good choice for us and one that needs to be allowed by the Game Commission. All of the lethal and nonlethal methods are not allowed in Mt Lebanon without Game Commission permission, but sterilization needs to be demanded by our residents as a viable option. We aren't a USC or Washington County for safe sharpshooting but we can host a responsible program for sterilization and halt the numbers of deer being born. Kelly Fraasch came up with a responsible solution and I support sterilization if people are bothered by the deer, which I am not.
Why did Linda Fuoco reach out to the known pro-kill biased staff at Cornell's DNR department as reference for her pro-kill deer article, and ignore Laura Simon, an internationally renowned wildlife biologist and ecologist from Yale University, and an expert in deer reproductive science and resolving deer-human conflicts, who just had a letter published in the post-gazette (her newspaper) opposing Mt. Lebanon's deer killing program. Or at minimum, why wouldn't she have interviewed both Curtis and Simon. I think the reason is obvious. She intended to write a pro-kill article, and was just looking for a pro-kill biologist to quote to justify it. Plus, why is Fuoco even writing about deer in Mt. Lebanon? How does that relate to her Pet column?
I've very familiar with Paul Crutis and Bernd Blossey's junk science "studies" at Cornell University. BTW, Blossey's not even a wildlife biologist. You have to understand some background first. The Dept. of Natural Resources at Cornell is basically a bought and paid for extension of New York State's Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC), which is the same as our Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC). Hardly unbiased or objective. Cornell's "studies" are totally biased promoting hunting and other lethal solutions to deer management, just like the recommendations we get from the Pa Game Commission. In addition, these are not peer reviewed studies published in respected scientific journals.
When these people try non-lethal population mgt techniques, like contraception and sterilization, they make every effort to sabotage the studies to make them fail and then publish the results, so NYS DEC and other pro-hunting wildlife agencies (they make their money selling hunting licenses) across the country can use these junk science "studies" and Cornell's name to deny non-lethal alternatives. Follow the money.
Somebody tell Ms. Fuoco that deer on Cedar Blvd won't be a problem anymore.
Hasn't she seen all the commotion and traffic congestion from all those extra game slots we added with the new artificial turf.
With all the cheering, yelling, drinking and traffic the deer won't have anything to do with place.
Successful sterilization projects have been carried out in other areas including Milwaukee WI, Highland Park IL, The Villages of San Jose CA and are in process in Monkton, MD, Bethesda MD, and Fairfax City VA .
Knock it off, 9:14, Fuoco worked hard on her research (Morgans says so) for her Post Gazette column!
The Cornell study was all they need to support their senseless plan.
Did you see this?
http://ymlp.com/zxIt8m
Here's the $75,000 uestion everyone should be asking.
How did the commissioners arrive at a cull limit of 150 deer?
With deer estimates all over the ball park... 196, 342, 400, 600, thousands... what formula did they use to come up with exterminating just 150?
Is 50 too few? 300 too many? Somehow they figured 150 was juuusssst riiight!
Since our reputable spinmeister, Ms. Morgans, appreciates hard work and one would figure that would include digging up facts, perhaps see can get us the public information on how that 150 kills was determined.
Not sure who put that out but it is a great flyer.
Let me say this emphatically.
THE ONLY WAY THE ANTI-CULL PEOPLE WIN IS TO OUTNUMBER AND OUTSHOUT THE GARDENERS AT THE NEXT MEETING.
In the Request for Proposals (RFP), crafted by Merlin Benner and coincidently the contractor awarded job, it states, "The numeric goal is to trap and euthanize 150 deer before the end of March 2015." I'm not Susan Morgans, and am a "half fast" source of information but posting the RFP might make it more reputable. Looks like Benner is our man, 12:57 PM.
The contract is a two month contract and was supposed to start February 1, 2015. As of February 6, 2015, the Game Commission has not yet approved the plan (just like the NPDES permit approved 4.5 months from the time the permit was submitted for the botched up turf project). What to do? What to do?
Elaine
12:57 pm
Hell, that's an easy question to answer. They believe that there are probably about 150-196 deer that travel into Mt. Lebanon to browse on the 30+ flower island and the Commissionettes tulips.
So they raise the survey number from 196 to 400 and 600 deer. They just make it up assuming that people aren't paying attention and the reporters will print everything they say. And you know the old Joseph Goebbels rule of thumb, “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." And so there you have it.
So now that the public believes there are 400-600 deer in Mt. Lebanon, then their objective of slaughtering the entire deer population in and around Mt. Lebanon, but making it look like they're just trimming the herd is achieved.
Get it?
Biologist from Rochester Hills tell city of Ann Arbor that culling didn't work, and that their non-lethal mgt plan has been very successful. Excerpts below.
The Ann Arbor News (MLIVE)
Biologist tells Ann Arbor officials success can be had with non-lethal deer management plan
By Ryan Stanton on February 06, 2015
Does the city of Ann Arbor have a deer problem? And if so, does it require using lethal methods to thin the herd?
Lance DeVoe, a biologist with the city of Rochester Hills, discussed a non-lethal deer management program created and implemented in his city, arguing low-cost methods such as education of residents and improved road signage have been successful.
"There's been about a 40 percent decrease in car-deer accidents and a 75 percent decrease in the complaints coming into the city," he said, noting those results have been achieved even as the deer population has stayed "pretty much the same."
"Because we've looked at 10 years of car-deer accident data, we know the roads, the time of day, the places that you're most likely to hit them, and we publicize that information, along with the other elements of the management plan," he said.
"The feeding ban, which I think is critical -- it stops deer from traveling in patterns that they might not otherwise travel," he added. "We have an extensive sign program. We looked at all the different roads that the deer were hit on, and we had Oakland County move our permanent yellow signs with the jumping deer on them."
Each fall, during high deer-vehicle crash months, Rochester Hills also puts out moveable message boards to high-crash areas, DeVoe said.
Rochester Hills tried a culling program a number of years ago and brought in sharpshooters for about a month, DeVoe said.
"It was not very successful," he said. "It was met with a lot of opposition from residents."
"We have the education component, which obviously is important, meetings with neighborhood committees and things like that," he said. "And we continue to look at more and different ways to lower those car-deer accidents, different flashing signs like they use in school zones, or the special reflectors. We'll consider just about anything."
He said the sharpshooting was done on city parkland and other large tracts of land, but it wasn't effective, so the program was abandoned.
"Even if they were able to kill the number of deer they wanted to, more of the problems were in the neighborhoods and suburbs where that kind of program wasn't feasible," he said. "So, from that came the formation of the committee and the non-lethal means that we employ today."
He noted his city also has taken steps to address concerns about damage to residents' plants and gardens.
"We have residents who actually, if they're called upon, will go to people's houses and examine their personal situation and give them recommendations for dealing with their landscape problems," he said. "We try now, more than anything, to encourage people to plant all deer-resistant plants."
DeVoe said he thinks Ann Arbor is on the right track with studying the issue, but he cautions there are no quick and easy solutions.
Yes Elaine, but how did they come up with numeric goal of 150 deer?
Dart board, Ouija Board, Magic 8 Ball, or that's the amount left in the budget this year and has nothing to do with achieving accident reductions, saving landscaping or eliminating ticks.
Easy, 1:48 PM. Benner knew that we had $75,000 to spend. Simple math: At $500 a deer, that equals up to 150 deer. Thankfully, our commissioners were smart enough to change the contract to $500 per deer killed. I believe it was Steve Silverman who was concerned with how the contract was written. He didn't want to get locked into a contract which could cost Mt. Lebanon $75,000 for the service and only kill six deer. We have to give Steve Silverman credit for using his head.
Elaine
So this untried corral plan, never before used by Benner and crew just happens to cost $500/deer or $75,000.
Amazing, and that amount is going to deer/vehicle accidents by 50%, save our tulips and protect everyone from tick bites.
Elaine, do you think Morgans will appreciate your hard work in a comment here like she did for Fuoco on her Facebook?
Wow, some real rocket science at play here.
Why do all the other communities report that shooting wasn't a safe option in their heavily populated neighborhood, but here in MTL Linfante, the Chief and the Game Commission seem to be almost encouraging it?
People privately hunting... "we don't care if they have licenses or not... we don't care if they have 150 yd safety zones!
Blast away Lebonites!!!
I wouldn't be too fast in giving Steve Silverman credit for using his head. Do you really think that $500 a deer is a good price? That sounds like a lot of money for just pulling a trigger to kill a deer. Why not $250? Who came up with $500 a deer, and it's based on what?
Wait wait wait.
So the purpose of this cull is to cut deer/vehicle accidents by .75 per year?
From 1.5 per year to .75?
Tell me I am misunderstanding something!!!!
Do people really understand we only have 1.5 deer/vehicle collisions per year?
One challenge with a per deer price, especially a $500 price, is that now you are creating an incentive to shoot deer that may be near a corral but not totally inside a corral or shooting a deer inside a corral without a gate.
Remember, only 3 gates will be used and 8 corrals will be built. What are they going to do, keep moving gates all over the place? Will there be cameras at each location or just the locations where gates are being used? Remember, Mr. Benner has no experience using these corrals.
Will the incentive ($500/deer) become greater towards the end of March if Mr. Benner isn't reaching his goals? This is why we need to demand that our commissioners take a second look at this. In its present form, this program is both dangerous and irresponsible.
Nick M.
No, only 1.5 car accidents per year in which people were reported to have been hurt because of deer.
Elaine
2,750 supporters on the Stop the deer culling! petition.
Elaine
The deer aren't going to fall for the bait in this mild winter.
This is why it's stupid to spend taxpayer money on experiments.
Elaine - Benner will be killing the deer slowly with the corn. I've read multiple places now that this will cause the deer to become sick.
http://www.farmanddairy.com/columns/feeding-corn-to-deer-could-be-death-sentence/14324.html
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/outdoors/harsh-winter-prompts-talk-of-deer-feeding-and-habitat-b99199220z1-243891181.html
Excerpt:
Deer are browsers, and their systems are geared to digest plants. In midwinter, Riggle said wild deer are used to eating woody browse. If suddenly given a bale of hay or pile of corn, the deer may feel full and stop eating. A sudden switch to a rich carbohydrate diet can cause deer to die from a condition called rumen acidosis.
"It's pretty common to hear about deer found dead in winter with bellies full of corn," Riggle said
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/big-buck-zone/2013/02/are-you-feeding-your-deer-death
Benner: You are evil.
According to the Allegheny County Sportsmen's League, Mr Benner has a long-history of destructive and untrustworthy reporting on deer:
http://www.acslpa.org/DeerMenuItem-3-DeerMismanagementAnalysis.pdf
OTHER ATTEMPTS BY DCNR AND PGC TO CERTIFY AUDUBON'S NEW ECOSYSTEM MANAGEMENT PLAN AND THE DEER REDUCTION PROGRAM
Forest Regeneration Study. In 2006 (six years after the fact), Merlin Benner published his report on deer browsing versus forest regeneration toward confirming that deer were continuing to destroy Pennsylvania's forests. Although the report concludes that the deer herd is a destructive force on Pennsylvania forests that has not yet been reduced far enough nor for a long enough period, this conclusion seems to contradict the data within the report, which indicate that nearly 90% of forest regeneration is experiencing either no browsing or only moderate browsing from deer. Data from the report indicate that only 4% of state forest regeneration is heavily or severly browsed.
No, no, no 4:58, Linfante has everyone believing the streets are running red with blood from the deer/vehicle collisions.
Deer-borne ticks are the carriers of a Black Death that decimated Europe in the Dark Ages.
And she is going to save us all
Over 7,000 supporters on the Adopt A Deer! Petition.
Let's look at this logically.
The commission has come up with an answer to a deer issue based not on the scope of the problem, but rather on how much they have to spend on towards the solution.
They want to cut deer related vehicle accidents by 50%, but since they have no idea how many deer are in Lebo there's no way they can ascertain how many deer need to be killed to get to their goal?
So they have $75,000 to spend and Benner will kill deer at $150/head. A solution to an unknown problem of how many deer can we co-exsist with.
Ass backward as usual for our municipal leaders and employees.
7:58 pm, as stated many times before this embarrassing bunch of governing idiots are staunch advocates of "ready, fire, aim" in their approach to dealing with community issues.
9:51 it's because they don't care about solving the problem; they care about the politics and vote trading. they just want kristin's deer killed b/c she voted for the turf. that's why we are paying almost $100k to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
I just made another very sad and disturbing discovery, Elaine and Lebo Citizens.
When the deer are poisoned with the corn bait, which is part of the plan, especially with the timing of the bait in late winter, they will become very ill. With the seriousness of the disease that is anticipated when deer have open access to corn bait at this time of year, the likelihood that they are then edible after processing for food banks is highly unlikely.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26508--,00.html#sign
This permit application is full of unethical, dishonest, conflicting and inhumane ideas.
It's truly generous that you would be willing to adopt 5 deer, Elaine (as per the Adopt a Deer! petition). It's open-hearted folks like you, ones willing to walk and bathe these beautiful creatures, that make Lebo tick. And we got 7,000 signatures to the more audacious petition! People in this town don't just want the deer saved, they want them integrated into their families. This place never ceases to amaze!
Sorry, 8:54 AM. Different Elaine.
Elaine
8:54 AM, don't get excited that I posted your anonymous comment. I had been asked before, privately, about "Elaine" mentioned in the adopt a deer petition. I wanted to take the opportunity to clear up any confusion.
Don't take this to mean I will publish any more of your comments unless you sign your full name.
Elaine
When I state my opinion in Pet Tales or on Facebook, I do so under my real name. You people are "anonymous"...I have no respect and no use for people who post anonymously while attacking other people by name.
Linda Wilson Fuoco
That's you priviledge Ms. Fuoco, but apparently you have no use for facts or presenting both sides of an issues as well. Therefore, this anonymous commenter, has no respect for you as a journalist or Post Gazette columnist, whether you sign your name or not!
When I make a contribution to Lebocitizens, I try to be factual and if I'm not sure of my facts or sources I clearly note that and ask if any can dispute my submission.
You on the other hand, having the power of a big name newspaper have an obligation to be upfront and unbiased or at least declare your agenda.
It is called being responsible.
Mrs. Fuoco, I too sign my name to every comment I submit. Those who disagreed with your Pet Tales article on Facebook, did not do so anonymously.
Thank you for reading Lebo Citizens. May I ask where you found the number of deer in Mt. Lebanon? You wrote that there are 400 deer in Mt. Lebanon. We have been told so many different numbers.
Elaine
Ms. Fuoco, you may want to step back from your anger and contemplate your journalistic objectivity, ethics and standards.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalistic_professionalism
Kristen is hard at work. She loves to mention Stout Flooring, yet fails to mention the Baptist Home employee who was hit by a car on Christmas morning a year ago, when trying to cross Castle Shannon Blvd. She also neglects to mention the car that recently crashed into Vicar's Antiques. Why does she continue to focus on deer, when drivers are the bigger problem here?
Her email will follow in my next comment.
Elaine
Part 1
Dear
Thanks for taking the time to contact the commission with your concerns. The fact is that the commission is implementing a cull because of the large number of car accidents that have been reported (data collected by police reports), and the fact that the number is on the rise. The deer overpopulation is something we have been discussing and researching for over three years. We are dealing with a major safety issue, unfortunately. A wildlife expert has estimated that we have nearly 100 deer per square mile in Mt. Lebanon. They have no known predators other than cars, and the population has remained unchecked. Numerous experts have told us that there is no non-lethal method that would solve our problem because the numbers are currently so high. The commission did support a two-pronged approach of an initial cull to quickly reduce the numbers, and then a sterilization program to keep the numbers in check. However, sterilization is not approved in the state of PA, and our application to the game commission for sterilization was denied. We hope that once our numbers are lower, the game commission will reconsider.
This is about safety. It is not just about speeding cars either. One resident was severely injured in my ward when stopped at a light. A deer crashed through her driver's side window. The deer's antlers mutilated the woman, severely injuring her as the deer thrashed about. She was not speeding. She was not even moving. This is not the first incident of a non-moving car being struck by deer. Another deer recently crashed into the window of a shop on our main thoroughfare (proof that they even roam our busiest streets.), and last year a deer crashed through the window at Stout Flooring and caused significant damage. Deer have also jumped through large windows and sliding doors in residents' homes causing major damage. Unfortunately, the number of deer/vehicular accidents is too high. The risks are too great. We must do something as it is a public safety issue. Lyme Disease is also a major concern, and we have had many residents now afflicted with the disease come forward.
Ms. Fuoco, if I may direct you to the Society of Professional Journalists Code of Ethics.
"Preamble
Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. Ethical journalism strives to ensure the free exchange of information that is accurate, fair and thorough. An ethical journalist acts with integrity."
"The Society declares these four principles as the foundation of ethical journalism and encourages their use in its practice by all people in all media.
Seek Truth and Report It
Ethical journalism should be accurate and fair. Journalists should be honest and courageous in gathering, reporting and interpreting information.
Journalists should:
• Take responsibility for the accuracy of their work. Verify information before releasing it. Use original sources whenever possible.
• Remember that neither speed nor format excuses inaccuracy.
• Provide context. Take special care not to misrepresent or oversimplify in promoting, previewing or summarizing a story.
• Gather, update and correct information throughout the life of a news story.
• Be cautious when making promises, but keep the promises they make.
• Identify sources clearly. The public is entitled to as much information as possible to judge the reliability and motivations of sources.
• Consider sources’ motives before promising anonymity. Reserve anonymity for sources who may face danger, retribution or other harm, and have information that cannot be obtained elsewhere. Explain why anonymity was granted.
• Diligently seek subjects of news coverage to allow them to respond to criticism or allegations of wrongdoing.
• Avoid undercover or other surreptitious methods of gathering information unless traditional, open methods will not yield information vital to the public.
• Be vigilant and courageous about holding those with power accountable. Give voice to the voiceless.
• Support the open and civil exchange of views, even views they find repugnant.
• Recognize a special obligation to serve as watchdogs over public affairs and government. Seek to ensure that the public’s business is conducted in the open, and that public records are open to all.
• Provide access to source material when it is relevant and appropriate.
• Boldly tell the story of the diversity and magnitude of the human experience. Seek sources whose voices we seldom hear.
• Avoid stereotyping. Journalists should examine the ways their values and experiences may shape their reporting.
• Label advocacy and commentary.
• Never deliberately distort facts or context, including visual information. Clearly label illustrations and re-enactments.
• Never plagiarize. Always attribute."
The other three principles briefly:
"• Minimize Harm - Ethical journalism treats sources, subjects, colleagues and members of the public as human beings deserving of respect."
"• Act Independently - The highest and primary obligation of ethical journalism is to serve the public."
"• Be Accountable and Transparent - Ethical journalism means taking responsibility for one’s work and explaining one’s decisions to the public."
http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Be honest, Ms. Fuoco, do you believe your article on the MTL deer situation was accurate, fair and most important - thorough and you're now treating the public with respect?
I'd like to add, anonymously of course, after reading the Society's Ethics Code, if there is one person in our little bubble that does a pretty decent job of sticking to this ethics code, it's Elaine Gillen. Remarkable, due to the facts that she makes no money from her journalism and makes no secret- her agendas.
Part 2
Unfortunately, deer cannot be transferred to new locations. We looked into this and were told by experts that the stress that this type of capture would cause was enough to kill them. We have spent years investigating this issue, and have come up with a plan that we hope will reduce car accidents. This is our goal - to reduce car accidents with deer by 50% in the next 3-5 years. If there are less deer on our roads, the risks will be reduced. Again, they have no known predators. This is not a natural environment for them either. If they were in the wild, many would be killed by other predators. Because those predators don't exist here, we must find a way to keep ecology in balance.
The approved plan to trap and euthanize the deer represents a compromise among the five commissioners. I supported sharpshooting (without trapping), but I did not have the support of my colleagues. In their minds, trapping and shooting from close range poses less public safety risks.The approved method is certainly less humane than sharpshooting, but the approved method is the one that received enough votes to pass.
Thanks again for taking the time to contact the commission.. As a commissioner, I must put the well-being of our residents before the well-being of deer. You are implying that there is a non-lethal way to deal with our problem, but every wildlife biologist has told us otherwise. Even the biologist who does sterilization told us that we would need to cull first to get the numbers more in check before we could sterilize because sterilization alone can take up to ten years to show reductions in populations.
You suggest that witnessing the shooting of deer is horrible, yet witnessing a car crash that could potentially kill deer and humans, in my mind, is much more horrifying. Perhaps you disagree. (By the way, back in 2008-09 when Mt. Lebanon was WAS culling, deer/vehicular accidents dropped significantly. This is our goal once again.) In the past year or so we had a car on Connor Rd. swerve to avoid a deer and the car flipped over and landed on the sidewalk. Can you image that scene, and can you imagine the scene if there had been a mother and her children walking on that sidewalk? I am an animal lover, and I am not particularly keen on guns in general, but I take my responsibility to keep our residents safe very seriously.
Regards,
Kristen Linfante
I wonder when the town hypocrite, Buzzcut Linfante will acknowledge she's part of the real problem here in Leboland... reckless speeding. Just ask her about the 12/31/14 speeding ticket she pleaded guilty to.
12/30/14 speeding ticket, my mistake.
Part of the problem here is the reliance on a single field of "experts" to resolve the issue. "Wildlife experts" are inclined to rely on lethal measure which society is moving away from due to the obvious problem our country has with violence. Further, there is significant evidence that other non-violent measures can be implemented throughout the community and in the region to reduce risks of deer/motor vehicle collisions and even the risk of a deer in the garden nuisance.
If the commission continues to rely on a single discipline and fails to consider the values of the community at large, the deer in Mt Lebanon story will continue to be a headline indefinitely. Speaking from my own observation of Mt Lebanon, people value a) the truth and b) non-lethal measures.
Dear Mrs. Fuoco,
I have every reason to believe that the number of deer and the number of deer-car collisions in our community as presented by the Commissioners is overblown.
I guess you are buying in to the idea that deer are one of our major threats in Mt. Lebanon and so we must go all out to kill them. They are a bigger threat than drivers who speed, text or DWI. Deer are a bigger threat than burglars, drug traffickers and our fiscally irresponsible leadership. Do you ever try to drive down Castle Shannon Blvd. during school hours? The road is barely passible with all of the cars parked on both sides during school hours. I wonder how many collisions have occurred in that area over the years.
You say "With great sadness, this animal lover hereby withdraws her personal opposition to killing some of the suburban deer -- but only if surgical sterilization is used after killing reduces suburban deer herds to a more manageable size." DId you know that the permit application to sterilize our deer was initially rejected and no one followed up to make the necessary corrections? The current application is the FIRST one that was actually properly completed as the Game Commission told me. It doesn't appear that anyone was serious about sterilization if they didn't follow through Don't believe that sterilization is going to happen. What do you think now? Are you still supporting this?
”The best approach is bait and shoot at night.” is in your article. What happens when a deer wanders into the corral in the morning? WIll someone show up to kill it while the public is around and about or will it spend hours trying to escape until darkness falls and someone shows up to kill it?
I want to believe that you are an animal lover, but before "pulling the trigger" on the deer it would have been better to find out the facts than to jump on the cull bandwagon.
-Charlotte Stephenson
I offer, anonymously, to Lebocitizen readers -the Society of Professional Journalists Code of Ethics. Take it for what you wish as it is submitted anonymously and only a fool would consider any anon comment without vetting it. But I ask this... do you believe the articles on our MTL deer situation in the official MTL magazine and "reputable" newspapers are accurate, fair and most important - thorough?
How about on Elaine's blog?
Which 'publication' "Recognize[s] a special obligation to serve as watchdogs over public affairs and government. Seek to ensure that the public’s business is conducted in the open, and that public records are open to all."
The SPJ's Code--
"Preamble
Members of the Society of Professional Journalists believe that public enlightenment is the forerunner of justice and the foundation of democracy. Ethical journalism strives to ensure the free exchange of information that is accurate, fair and thorough. An ethical journalist acts with integrity."
"The Society declares these four principles as the foundation of ethical journalism and encourages their use in its practice by all people in all media.
Seek Truth and Report It
Ethical journalism should be accurate and fair. Journalists should be honest and courageous in gathering, reporting and interpreting information.
Journalists should:
• Take responsibility for the accuracy of their work. Verify information before releasing it. Use original sources whenever possible.
• Remember that neither speed nor format excuses inaccuracy.
• Provide context. Take special care not to misrepresent or oversimplify in promoting, previewing or summarizing a story.
• Gather, update and correct information throughout the life of a news story.
• Be cautious when making promises, but keep the promises they make.
• Identify sources clearly. The public is entitled to as much information as possible to judge the reliability and motivations of sources.
• Consider sources’ motives before promising anonymity. Reserve anonymity for sources who may face danger, retribution or other harm, and have information that cannot be obtained elsewhere. Explain why anonymity was granted.
• Diligently seek subjects of news coverage to allow them to respond to criticism or allegations of wrongdoing.
• Avoid undercover or other surreptitious methods of gathering information unless traditional, open methods will not yield information vital to the public.
• Be vigilant and courageous about holding those with power accountable. Give voice to the voiceless.
• Support the open and civil exchange of views, even views they find repugnant.
• Recognize a special obligation to serve as watchdogs over public affairs and government. Seek to ensure that the public’s business is conducted in the open, and that public records are open to all.
• Provide access to source material when it is relevant and appropriate.
• Boldly tell the story of the diversity and magnitude of the human experience. Seek sources whose voices we seldom hear.
• Avoid stereotyping. Journalists should examine the ways their values and experiences may shape their reporting.
• Label advocacy and commentary.
• Never deliberately distort facts or context, including visual information. Clearly label illustrations and re-enactments.
• Never plagiarize. Always attribute."
The other three principles briefly:
"• Minimize Harm - Ethical journalism treats sources, subjects, colleagues and members of the public as human beings deserving of respect."
"• Act Independently - The highest and primary obligation of ethical journalism is to serve the public."
"• Be Accountable and Transparent - Ethical journalism means taking responsibility for one’s work and explaining one’s decisions to the public."
http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
Dear Charlotte Stephenson, thanks for signing your name so I will respond. The Pa Game Commission has long been completely inflexible on suburban deer management issues. They have been completely unwilling to approve surgical sterilization or vaccine/birth control methods. Instead of railing against the elected Mt. Lebanon officials and "our" paid employees, perhaps the time and efforts of passionate and smart animal lovers could be better spent lobbying state officials, included elected PA legislators who could put pressure on state employees and who could actually enact legislation permitting the use of surgical sterilization and birth control vaccines.
Linda Wilson Fuoco
Mrs. Fuoco,
I signed my name when I asked you where you got your count of 400 deer. Why didn't you respond to me? I guess you subscribe to Susan Morgans' way of thinking and ignore anything that comes from me.
Yes, Charlotte, you are absolutely correct. The Game Commission asked 5 or 6 questions in regard to the sterilization permit. NO ONE FOLLOWED UP WITH ANSWERS. Kristen keeps lying to her colleagues as well as constituents. The deer sterilization permit was never denied. The Game Commission never received answers to their questions. It was never completed. YES. KRISTEN LIED. OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
Chad Eyler, chief of the special permit division with the PA Game Commission, verified that MTL never submitted the additional information requested by the PAGC.
Dave Brumfield, now will you change your mind since you were lead to believe that this was the last resort by Kristen? It is another lie. You promised constituents that you would never bring guns into Mt. Lebanon and it was apparent that you struggled with this decision. Do the right thing and stop this. Kelly has been right all along.
Elaine
Can citizens see the questions the PGC had about the sterilization program? Does there need to be a RTK? I'll pay, Elaine.
Mary Edgerly
I have it, Mary. Thanks for your offer though. Here is the letter you were asking about. The six questions asked are in the second paragraph of the PAGC letter. Read the last sentence of the second paragraph. We were never denied. Mt. Lebanon dropped the ball.
Elaine
I'm not sure how Mrs. Fuoco's column is even relevant to the larger issue--the dishonesty throughout this entire saga. That is, the number of deer allegedly wreaking havoc (verified by...uh...still waiting...) has been not only inflated but inconsistent. Somehow, a magical number was plucked from thin air, right after it fell off the beanstalk while Bigfoot was out taking pictures. Shooting 150 deer in Lebo, even if they actually existed (and they don't), doesn't mean they won't be back. They migrate. I'm not sure how many different ways to say that. This entire exercise is a solution in need of a problem, and for that flawed logic the taxpayers get to see more of their money wasted.
If you don't want deer in an urban setting, stop creating conditions that are attractive to them. Start with those planters. Next up, anyone who fancies themselves a gardener could spend five minutes on the Internet and discover types of flowers and plants deer actually reject. Know how much that will cost taxpayers? Zero. Nada. Zilch.
See--I just saved Lebo 75k. You're welcome.
Petition just passed 3,000 signers
Maybe the deer killing is a nice thing to check off a "to do" list for the Commissioners so they can pretend to make Mt Lebanon safe.
But the truth is they won't reduce fatal accidents.
Allegheny County is usually in the top two counties in the state for fatal accidents related to traffic. Combine that new with this being a "walking community". What would you do if you were a Commissioner? Kill all of the deer?
http://www.justdrivepa.org/Resources/2013FatalitiesCountySummary.pdf
Here's something I haven't heard discussed.
More evidence of the ready, fire, aim leadership.
We're paying Benner $500/deer up to $75,000 or - pay close attention - until the end of March.
So what happens when we get to the deadline and we haven't killed 150 deer, reduced traffic accidents or saved somebody's landscaping?
Do we hire Benner once again at $12,000 to come up with yet ANOTHER plan? Will the commissioners then authorize a $1,000/deer hunt?
Think about this-- these commissioners are installing over a million dollars worth of artificial turf which if you look ahead at replacement in 8 years adds about $80,000/year to the MTL field maintenance budget.
Plus they've added $87,000 to this years budget to kill deer for two months.
What about next years deer that'll be having babies. The year after that?
So have the commissioners essentially raised our municipal expenditures by $100,000/year year after year on Just two dubious projects?
Ms. Fuoco, did you lobby our state officials?
Did you call for a write in campaignto our state representatives ( Smith and Miller) to enact legislation.
Noooo, you article specifically shows evidence that sterilization doesn't work. Now you're claiming smart animals lovers march for sterilization. Which is it Fuomo?
Dear Mrs. Fuoco,
If you are still reading this and are willing to reply, can you tell me how you know the PA Game Commission has long been inflexible in suburban deer management issues? When I contacted them about the current culling plan, I was told that they have criteria for deer management permits and if the application meets their criteria they issue the permits. Because I am a stakeholder, the person I spoke with spent a long time talking with me.
Can you see that the sterilization application response by Mr. Grohol, that is accessible through the link on this thread, contains what are reasonable questions? Does it matter to you that they were never answered by the Municipality?
When I have interacted with the PA Game Commission, they have been respectful and informative. What is the basis of your opinion of them?
I would be willing to lobby for anything that I believe is right. As you know, such undertakings take time to affect real change. In this case, the deer cull decisions have been made in little time. I can't support the Commissioners given their erroneous statements.
Please let me know what information you have regarding the Game Commission that has shaped your opinion of it so that I can be better informed.
Thank You,
Charlotte Stephenson
Does anybody wonder if Tom Kelly's permit for sterilization was intentionally and dramatically weak?
I can just see him thinking "This is bullish&*".
"In the past year or so we had a car on Connor Rd. swerve to avoid a deer and the car flipped over and landed on the sidewalk. Can you image that scene, and can you imagine the scene if there had been a mother and her children walking on that sidewalk? I am an animal lover, and I am not particularly keen on guns in general, but I take my responsibility to keep our residents safe very seriously.
Regards,
Kristen Linfante"
If Linfante takes her responsibilty to keep us safe seriously, why doesn't she first promote safe driving techniques... like not swerving violently to avoid striking a deer (endorsed by the police), not texting and driving, don't drink & drive, promoting reduced speeds?
This could be done immediately and for very little money. Maybe a public awareness campaign in MTL magagazine on defensive driving- it is after all, the Public Information Office. Hell, besides eliminating a deer accident or two, it might even save a few pedestrians.
No, her answer to the problem always boils down to - shoot the buggers! She says she's not keen on guns, but she sure does want to use them a lot.
Nice lady!
10:22 PM, remember how a car flipped over on Roycroft a few weeks ago? It was just a few houses away from Kristen's house. There wasn't a deer in sight.
Elaine
. Remember when that pack of deer cornered a Roycroft soccer mom outside the shrink's office and flipped her Lexus?...I don't either.
LOL!!! However, she laughs at lie detector machines, and eats them up and spits them out for breakfast. She's so pathological, that if anyone could beat a lie detector test it's her. :)
That said, I'd like to hook up Linda Fuoco, and test the truthiness of her "I watched sadly" and "With great sadness, this animal lover" comments in her Deer Thinning article. What a load of BS!
Did you ever hear Com. Linfante once support planting deer resistant plants and flowers in the 30+ flower gardens, or reaching out to residents and asking them to plant deer resistant plants and flowers, or to hold deer proofing seminars for residents? NO!
If she was SO concerned about car-deer collisions (btw,less than 2% of the accidents in Lebo that result in injuries), and launching a campaign to reach out to residents to plant deer resistant flowers could help reduce car-deer collisions, i.e. deer wouldn't be drawn into Lebo and crossing roads to get to this irresistible food source, why wouldn't she be proactively promoting this campaign?
I think the answer to this question pulls the curtain back and reveals the truth. Her entire car-deer collisions campaign is a total lie. This is all about deer eating the tulips of a small snobby elitist group, and eradicating all the deer, so that this elitist group can have their homes featured on the snobby library garden tour with the flowers of their choice.
She's been totally obsessed with killing all the deer in Mt. Lebanon for Barbara Logan and the exCommissionettes from day one in office. But why so obsessed? Is it to gain access to Lebo's exclusive Upstairs Downton Abbey Snobs Club? Why? What are the personal benefits of joining this elitist club of dead and ugly souls?
I would feel sorry for her if she weren't so intent on inflicting suffering and death on others, and exposing all of Mt. Lebanon families to danger from shooters and hunters, for tulips, and her own personal agendas. Still, it's hard to imagine the poverty of her inner life. Incomprehensible.
3:46am You are right! Linfante threw daggers at Commissioner Fraasch for several initiatives about deer proofing Mt Lebanon.
General education, ban on feeding,
island plantings, fencing and the education of property owners that have greenery next to the roads. Each one of these issues Commissioner Fraasch brings up in meetings Commissioner Linfante is rude, intolerant of the conversation and mocks Commissioner Fraasch. The last meeting when Commissioner Fraasch is talking about these efforts that the Commission didn't address Linfante is seething. My question has always been why if Linfante is concerned about the deer and the safety of the community why isn't she backing up Fraasch 100%?
I think you nailed it!
I was at the meeting that Commissioner Frasch was trying to get the fencing ordinance amended. Linfante's response was that it would force deer on the roads if the fences were up. I wonder if she thought back to that comment and discovered how stupid she sounded. Frasch was the only voter to address this issue and no other Commissioner voted for the amendment. The Commission has no interest in dealing with the deer in a humane way. I have watched it for months.
Linfante was also the one teaching her child about being a responsible person and saving the environment... Then turned around and voted for tearing up real grass and laying down plastic grass and gound up tire rubber.
She also the obe that wanted to build a sense of community... then turned around and attacked a group of citizens trying to do just that, with a signs that read "What the Kluck!"
Elaine - Has anyone seen a copy of the permit application for deer sterilization that Tom Kelly sent to the PGC? If so, can a link be provided on your blog?
Thanks.
While you are crying into your ice coffee about deer WHAT has Brumfield and the "unelected" commissioner who I won't name but seems that everyone in Mt Lebanon knows... Right Dave F? (Hope this makes your day as we all know we'll hear about it all day but laugh behind your back because YOU DON'T READ THIS CRAP!) Hate to break it to you all but the money spent on the deer cull has worked out quite well. They have you all up-in-arms your attention directed away from their agenda. Who's watching the mess at the High School? Or what's going on with the teachers? Or that very expensive "Sports Complex" that the Dave's drool over. How can Mt Lebanon survive without an indoor swimming pool and indoor lacrosse/soccer field? The increase in taxes would only be a coffee or two (three, four, five or six) a day. Keep up all your anti-deer efforts... The lawyers named Dave are counting on it.
Yes 8:49 AM, I have already posted it in my 265 page RTK.
Elaine
9:00 am -
To your point, how is it that when the permit for TURF is DENIED, it's not really denied ...it's DELAYED. And then there is LOTS more WORK on that PERMIT.
But when the permit for STERILIZATION is DENIED, there is no more WORK on that PERMIT.
Did the Commission vote in FAVOR of STERILIZATION or not? Why wasn't there follow-up work on the permit for STERILIZATION?
It must just be too hard to answer 7-8 questions about surgical procedures planned for deer but NOT TOO HARD to un-cheat on a permit intended to avert flooding homes on Cedar Boulevard or polluting streams in a historic district.
I hope your point is made tonight, 9:55 AM. I only have five minutes and have too much to talk about already.
Elaine
Doesn't anyone find it funny that the two "experts" hired by the municipality both have close ties with the companies that eventually when contracts with the municipality.
We have the Penn State professor and Fieldturf and now Benner and Benner's company.
Isn't it amazing how that works!
Correction- win contracts with the municipality.
Maybe Linda Fuoco was thinking that writing her biased "pro-kill the deer" article for Susan Fleming Morgans might put her in good standing to get a nice cushy job at Mt. Lebo Magazine when she retires from the PG, like Laura Pace did. I remember when Laura Pace worked for the PG covering Mt. Lebo during the early deer cull. I kept wondering why all the articles she wrote on the deer issue sounded like they were written by Mt. Lebo's PIO office. That mystery was solved when Mt. Lebo Magazine hired her. No conflict of interest there. Just looking for motivation for why a "journalist" and "animal lover" would intentionally write such a biased article.
Hey Elaine - just heard you on KDKA. You did great!
Thanks, 12:41 PM. I was really nervous! Mike plugged the blog several times. I am getting new visitors like crazy. Thanks for visiting my blog, KDKA listeners!
And thank you, Mike Pintek from KDKA!
Elaine
Kristen states that deer cannot be transferred to new locations because the stress that this type of capture would cause is enough to kill them. Wouldn't they be able to tranquilize the deer and then transfer them to a new, more appropriate location?
Ms. Fuoco states that she has no respect for commenters who wish to remain "anonymous". What does she think of journalists who use anonymous sources for their articles? It's a common practice in journalism. Sometimes there is a good reason for remaining anonymous.
1:03 - The deer could be moved. The Game Commission moves bear all the time and they are heavier and bigger. It's deer hate.
Elaine - Is there a recording of your KDKA interview?
The producer said that there will be a podcast of it online.
A Lebo Citizens reader told me that a snippet was played on KDKA Radio during the 1:00 news.
Elaine
There's a post about it on the KDKA Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/newsradiokdka?ref=br_tf
Elaine
No doubts commissioners that you could possibly be doing the wrong thing?
KDKA sent me a link to the podcast.
Mike Pintek on KDKA Radio.
Elaine
Good job Elaine!!!!
Post a Comment