Friday, December 11, 2015

The old switcheroo UPDATED

Mt. Lebanon is at it again. The commissioners decided to vote for the final vote for sharpshooting at the January 25, 2016, after they got the final numbers from Tony DeNicola with archery season ending on January 23, 2016. Keith McGill has Tony DeNicola on the agenda for January 12, 2016 and the vote scheduled for the same night. The old switcheroo or I should say, "Bait and switch."

Keep in mind that it is illegal to hunt over bait in PA. The archery season ends on January 23, but Manager Keith wants to get a jump on things and start baiting January 13, 2016.

Please read the email chain from the bottom and work your way up.

From: Kelly Fraasch <>
Date: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: Sharpshooting vote date
To: Anthony DeNicola <>
Cc: Keith Mcgill <>, Commission <>, Stephen McLean

Hi Tony and Commission,

If we vote on the 23rd, they will have three weeks to know about it and be notified of the option and intent of the program as well.

There is no difference in time, except for the adequate notice to the public before committing them to a never ending program of killing deer in the municipality and that we committed to voting on the 23rd.

We should stick to our initial intent of the vote being 2 weeks after we are given publicly Tony's feedback and information. If we make this vote on the 12th, we will cause unnecessary push back from many, not just those against the program but it will add to the dialogue from many (for and against) about our "shady process" with this program.

I say stick to what we said rather than pushing this through for no gain on anyone's behalf, mostly Tony and White Buffalo.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Anthony DeNicola <> wrote:


If you vote on the 12th the public will have nearly 3 weeks notice before operations begin. If we cannot start until mid-February you risk a diminished outcome. It is still clearly the choice of the Commission.



On Wednesday, December 9, 2015, Keith Mcgill <> wrote:

Good morning Kelly,

I understand your concerns and would offer that we will be posting the FAQ's that were developed by Friday of this week that will provide information related to the program to the public.

As to the timing of the approval that is more related to information contained in the response by White Buffalo to the RFP indicating that "Bait should be placed out 3 weeks in advance of anticipated removal efforts." If the decision is made at the January 25th meeting this would mean that the program may not be able to start until February 15th instead of February 1st.

I am copying Tony DeNicola on my response for his input related to a possible approval date. As always, the final determination as to the timing of agenda items is a Commission decision.


On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 10:28 AM, Kelly Fraasch <> wrote:


I feel strongly that this vote should not take place till the 23rd.

We are just receiving the information from Dr. DeNicola and providing the information to the public on the 12th. Therefore we should give the public time to receive the information as well before a final vote.

If we move ahead on the 12th, we cause more concerns about transparency. We can wait till the 23rd and should. Commissioner Brumfield and I shared our concerns about doing this in previous conversations when it comes to not giving the public notice at a minimum of two weeks. It causes unnecessary distrust with the public especially on this topic.


On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 10:12 AM, Keith Mcgill <> wrote:

Good morning_____,

The vote related to approval of Phase II of the sharpshooting contract (implementation) is tentatively scheduled for January 12, 2016. The municipality will receive information regarding the number of deer removed through the municipal archery program immediately prior to the meeting and before a vote is taken regarding Phase II.

Dr. DeNicola will be attending the discussion session to review the sharpshooting program and respond to any related questions regarding either the archery program or the sharpshooting program.


Update December 11, 2015 4:34 PM With a heavy heart, I regret to inform Lebo Citizens readers about the December 11, 2015  deer management update on the municipal website. It is also available here.

Mt. Lebanon has received its deer control/political subdivision permit from the Pennsylvania Game Commission. The permit will allow the municipality to proceed with Phase Two of the 2015-2016 deer management program pending final approval by the Commission in January. During Phase Two, scheduled to run from February 1, 2016, to March 1, 2016, White Buffalo Inc. will conduct a deer cull using trained sharpshooters on designated public land and on donated private properties.

The Game Commission permit along with answers to Frequently Asked Questions appear here. The FAQ will be updated as plans move forward, if appropriate. View a copy of the permit.
I see they are still sticking with the BS about the properties being donated. The State has ruled that no property has been donated. Please note that sharpshooting hours will be late afternoon and after dark.


Barbara S. said...

Just when you think their hearts can't get any blacker, they prove that assumption wrong.

We can't let this go un-challenged.

Oh, for the day of Righteous Leaders!!!

Anonymous said...

1. Yes baiting is illegal but will continue be used to lure deer in to be killed.

2. The vote is already in to sharpshooting before even knowing how many deer were killed. The actual vote is a formality.

3. The baiting and excessive killing of deer with safety zones waived will continue forever.

4. I am tired of reading comments in the media regarding how other municipalities cull deer, so why is it so divisive in Mt. Lebanon? A. Other municipalities aren't as densely populated. B. Other municipalities aren't out to bait and kill every living deer that is seen, while waiving safety zones.

This is all being done to appease a few narcissistic, wealthy residents so their flowers look pretty. It's absolutely disgusting.

Anonymous said...

My neighbors just bought a house out of state. Many other neighbors have moved in the last six months. They are getting the $ they want by pushing out decency.

Anonymous said...

yep,, these are the Galleria the poor deer who live in Mt Lebanon... I think these women are hopefully a last of breed of selfish women..

Anonymous said...

The commission will vote in favor of sharpshooting. I think we need to proceed on that assumption. Given that, perhaps we need to place our focus on keeping our children (and adults) safe during February 2016. Fallout shelters are in order. And yes,curfews for the entire community.

E. T. Gillen said...

Yes, 11:13 AM, we should probably have curfews. Since the shooting will start late afternoon and after dark, what does that translate into? 4:00 PM till 6:00 AM? And they won't tell us where the bullets will be flying. No locations are mentioned in the latest Game Commission permit. This reminds me of the drills we had in the early 60's. I remember running from Jefferson Elementary along Bower Hill Road in second grade during one of those drills.

This may be my next post.

Anonymous said...

Elaine, I just saw this on NextDoor and I find it a disturbing but relevant thought:

Paul Barkowitz from Cedarhurst 20h ago
Since we're paying others to kill deer in Mt. Lebanon, can I feed them poison? I'd be doing Mt. Lebanon a favor, as I won't charge for my killing of deer.

E. T. Gillen said...

2:18 PM, please flag that comment as inappropriate! I don't know who the lead is for the Cedarhurst group, but they do have the ability to delete the comment. That is horrible!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Ok, I will Elaine at 2:18.

Jason Margolis said...

I had posted under that post, mocking it. Both posts are now gone.

I posted the following about an hour ago.... Do you think it will stay up or get deleted?:

This is an important reminder related to the spirit of the season in MTL, across all faiths and non-faiths. In communities such as ours, blessed with an abundance of fiscal and human resources, it is all the more important to remember those that are struggling, and the wonder of life all around us. For those lucky enough to have family, please remember the isolated, ill, widowed, and alienated. For those who have money, please remember the hungry, poor, desperate, and destitute. For those lucky enough to breathe in life every day, please remember the beauty of all living creatures, children of all ages, the aged, and animals of all glorious types. If you are lucky enough to have privilege, hold it with no shame. But use it with love and wisdom -- this and all times of the year.

Barbara said...

at 2:18 pm. I think that guy was being sarcastic. He's anti weapons. When I posted about archery before, he posted that he didn't want anyone shooting on his property, that it wasn't right, etc. He also supported me when people said my post should be deleted bc it was "political." So I wouldn't bother.

Paul Barkowitz from Cedarhurst 13 Oct
I don't want firearms or arrows or any kind of weapon discharged on my property. I don''t view others as not being sensible for disagreeing. Part of the problem with today's politics is the need of some to personally insult those who disagree with them. Sensible people can disagree sensibly.
Thank Flag

Jason Margolis said...

Either way, the "alert" about feeding deer and the timing of it are offensive. Rudolph, Run, a yahoo's got a gun. Hence, among other reasons, my Lebo Alert.

Barbara S. said...

Dec. 12, 11:13 AM: I think we make assumptions far too quickly and assume that there is no point in continuing the fight. We will have a NEW COMMISSION in a few weeks. In addition to a new Commissioner, we will have changed dynamics when Steve Silverman can no longer stand in Coleen Vuono's shadow! Things can turn on a dime: we've seen it happen, before.

PLEASE come to the next meeting and PLEASE SPEAK! McLean has NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE of the facts associated with this whole sordid mess. We need to hit the endless costs issue and let him know that killing deer every year will not solve the alleged problem!

IF WE SAY NOTHING, WE SHOULD NOT BE SURPRISED WHEN NOTHING CHANGES! Two of them are already expressing surprise that we seem to have given up and accepted the killing! We're on a trajectory that none of us wants; it's time for a serious mid-course correction!