The Mt. Lebanon Commission meetings are available for viewing online 24 hours a day! Here is the link to archived commission meetings. http://mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?NID=2151
Remember how I was suggesting that everyone watch or listen to our magistrate's report on the drug task force? Here it is. http://mtlebanon.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=15 On the right hand side, click on the agenda item and it will take you to that portion of the meeting.
Happy days are here!
Update: March 28, 2013 12:35 PM Municipal video link available here for the pool presentation. Click on Agenda Item number three.
Mt. Lebanon pool renovations made public The Almanac
Mt. Lebanon Swim Center upgrade may cost $3.3 million Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
36 comments:
That is cool! Well done commissioners.
I wonder if our Municipality is the only public body in PA that has created this type and degree of open communication for its public ?
Thank you very much, Mt. Lebanon !
Bill Lewis
As the school board directors ponder elimination of video taping meetings, our commissioners surpass them once again. Bravo,Commission. Bravo.
But a month ago the knee-jerkers were woofing about how this very item was all part of Obama's grand scheme yo make us all socialists:
"Technology Media Outreach sounds to Orwellian (1984) to me.
I have visions of residents sitting in front of LED monitors ala the famous 1984 Apple Macintosh commercial mesmerized by the municipal "doublespeak" from Morgan and Labalme."
Did something change?
8:25 PM, there were 86 comments in that thread. http://lebocitizens.blogspot.com/2013/02/drum-rollthe-commissioners-2013.html
Only one "knee-jerker" was woofing. I don't think anything changed. I don't have to attend every meeting with my recorder so that it can be recorded and uploaded on my website. That gives me more time to answer snarky comments like yours.
I was hoping someone would volunteer to record tonight's Sports Advisory Meeting, and thankfully David Huston came through for me again. Hopefully, the school district will go this route so that David Huston will get a break too.
Elaine
Nothing changed except that you chose to cherry pick only the last part of the comment. Here's the preceding part.
"I'm relatively familiar with Media Outreach such as in--
Media Outreach Vs. Media Relations
by Kimetris N. Baltrip, Demand Media
"Stories that appear in newspapers or on television often provide free publicity and promotion for a small business. But getting your company's name in mass media requires strategy because, without one, media exposure could hurt your company's reputation. Effective media strategies involve a mix of approaches, including media outreach and media relations. While these two functions are connected, they don't necessarily foster the same type, quality and length of company exposure."
I mean if that is an effort to dominate and manipulate public discussions through more PIO initiatives there is no way that should be #1A!"
From what I've seen so far, there is no manipulation of public discussion, just a convenient way to access and review commission meetings. And that is cool compared to listening thru Lebocitizens recordings to hear the discussion on the topic your interested in. The Lebocitizens recordings were a lot of work and appreciated.
There are still elements of this outreach that could at a later date morph from an outreach to manipulative media relations. We seen the print version in MTL magazine for instance where residents got the school districts FAQ on the high school project but no opposing information. Remember the "we expect the project to come in 17% under the cap."
Imagine if after the commission meetings residents are treated to say a glitzy "advertisement" of the pool proposal. Or a youtube video of a deer attacking a family dog. Do you really believe such consumer marketing won't be used to manipulate public opinions?
Kelly Fraasch comes through once again. http://www.kellyfraasch.com/2013/03/26/moving-ahead-to-help-gain-input-from-you/
Thanks again, Kelly.
Click on number 15. Manager announcements. http://mtlebanon.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&clip_id=16 Steve Feller explained how we will be able to submit e-comments up until 1:00 the day of the meeting. This added online feature should be available in the next few weeks.
Elaine
I, too, applaud the Municipality for creating an on-line presence that promises to be both easily accessible and interactive. However, I hope Elaine will continue to arrange to have the meetings recorded. Let us not forget that the local government that "giveth" can "taketh away" - or edit out what it does not want us to see or hear. Although there does not seem to be any indication that that kind of thing would happen with our current Commission, the actions of future Commissions cannot be predicted. The presence of a private recorder in Commission Chambers is a deterrent to any temptation to manipulate information.
Richard the school board I believe did exactly that several years ago. They edited out a conversation with a resident before showing the tape on Ch. 19.
It would be nice to relieve Elaine and Mr.Houston from the duties of recording all these meetings. They've done a stellar for no pay and even less thanks.
Perhaps the recordings should have an imbedded time stamp so if there is a "missing 18 minutes" everyone will immediately know.
Or perhaps a rule and penalty should be written into the Home Rule Charter for tampering with Commission tapes.
The Turf Board met in a room withoug cameras.
Good thing a resident recorded the long silent periods while they were filling out forms.
How else would the public know the main purpose is to convince the Commission to turf Mellon, Wildcat fields and put a basketball court over the pool changing rooms?
From Kelly Fraasch's blog on:
"Technology/Media Outreach I know I need to explain this one and I am explaining from my point of view. First, I talked about it in my last article in the Mt Lebanon magazine addressing ways of being more transparent and engaging the community to get more feedback from our constituents. I added that our board and authority (b/a) committee meetings need to be recorded. This should not be hard and we need to give access to these important meetings. These committees provide the Commission with recommendations throughout the year and residents should find these b/a committees of great importance to our governmental process."
Kelly advocates for recording board and authority meetings, states it shouldn't be hard and acess should be given to these important meeting so residents can offer feedback.
So now that the technology is up and running and one of the most divisive boards meets and where do we hear about issues discussed... why from Lebocitizens.
A basketball court on the changing rooms... really!?
Who wants to listen to pounding feet and ball dribbling as they juggle pool bags, towels and anxious kids in the lockerroom trying to dart out to the pool?
Furthermore, isn't there a basketball court about 150 yds from the pool already?
That idea is absurd and so much for transparency and outreach.
In all fairness, the meeting was not scheduled for a televised room. I don't quite understand how Rex Gatto got involved. A staff member, John Bendel or Ed Kubit should have made sure that it was recorded. Kelly wasn't part of this turf board. Remember a couple of members were yelling at her in a coffee house. Believe me, you should have no issue with Kelly.
If it wasn't for my trusty recorder, there would have been no Joint Discussion Session podcast. That was the first time Dave Brumfield brought up turfing a middle school field.
Elaine
Oh no Kelly is not to be blamed, she's advocating for the way it should be.
The obvious question, now that we have the outreach system in place, why wasn't an effort made to get the Board meeting televised. Was the commissioners room in use?
Now the discussion has gone from turfing one field to turfing two. The school district has a $1.8 million budget hole and is hiring people to find $6 million in donations.
The municipality is looking for new revenue sources and the sports people come up with turfing two fields and a rooftop basketball court.
Who are these people and do they care about anyone other than themselves?
The top of page 3:
http://www.mtlebanon.org/archives/63/joint%20discussion%20session%202-28-12.pdf
mentions Brumfield and turfing Mellon Middle field.
Thanks 11:59. Yes according to the minutes Mr. Brumfield suggest the municipalitywould be interested in turfing Mellon if the district would agree to maintain it.
I wonder if a year later, after finding out they can get grass field maintenance for substantially less than the municipality was charging, Posti is still interested in submitting Brumfield's proposal to the board.
Especially now that there is a huge hole in the budget, talk of more fees, more cuts in staff and curriculum. Plus the $900,000/year teachers geivance looming, a second bond float and escalating PSERS payments.
Mr. Brumfield didn't mention exactly what maintenance meant. If the district agrees are they responsible for replacing the turf when it wears out? The electric bill for the stadium lights?
I certainly hope a board that is in deep **** trying to maintain their current budget without laying off librarians, tells Mr. Brumfield the realities of the school district budget.
Listen to the Joint Discussion Session. Josephine starts out by saying that they have no plans for capital projects because of the high school renovation. That was Dave Brumfield's cue to say that the Commission wants to turf a middle school field because it helps out the community and if it saves the District money, that is even better. It was well rehearsed. That is when we got into the debate about using municipal dollars for a school district. If we do that for MTLSD, then we need to do that for Seton and KO, two more Mt. Lebanon schools.
Now, it will only take three votes for turf if we use undesignated funds. We will have four votes for another bond, if needed. The sports cartel has made sure that the commission candidates a pro turf. Unfortunately, Dave's Sports Advisory Board is going through the motions that all this will be determined fair and square.
The YSA was going to come up with $200,000, just like the Soccer people, Aqua Club, and the $8 million Remely brought up in the Master Design team minutes.
Elaine
Wouldn't officials at the state level investigate one political subdivision bailing out another political subdivision because the latter cannot borrow more due to the debt ceiling?
Remember Brumfield did say it's the same taxpayers, what's the difference?
Taxpayers cannot afford all political subdivisions to be maxed out on borrowing limits.
Right on, 1:55 PM! Taxpayers cannot afford such thinking.
The sports fools/fanatics bit off more than they could chew. Now it's time for officials to go back to the drawing board and make some adjustments.
I got the whole story about what happened with the $50,000 promise from Aqua Club. An old quote was presented to Aqua Club and the Municipality of $100,000 for a heater and cover for the pool. The Aqua Club offered to split that 50/50 with the municipality. When the true cost came in, it was more like $150,000, which was much more than what the Aqua Club could afford. The municipality quickly spent their half ($50,000) that had been earmarked for the pool heater and cover for something else.
Elaine
Elaine, has anyone revealed what the operating cost of a pool heater will be ? Like, figure out the gas and electric cost of raising the temperature of 800,000 gallons of water by just 1 degree F and it will blow your mind, just so the Aqua Club can get 2 or 3 more weeks of outdoor swimming time per year. And they can't raise any money to help pay ? Are we insane or just stupid ?
What's really idiotic and insane is that the municipality will probably install several more NO IDLING signs at the Ice Rink/Pool Drop Off Zone in the name of Environment Sustainability!
8:03 this might give some idea of the cost to heat a pool.
http://www.ehow.com/way_5506596_average-cost-heat-pool.html#page=0
8:03
It's not just the Aqua Club that swims. Remember, with global warming we can expect longer swim seasons. You know, like 2013 where the pool will open on March 1st instead of June 1st. By 2010 we were supposed to be in an era where our children wouldn't even know what snow looked like!
Truthfully though, a heated pool should bring in more season passes and revenue to the municipality. As for the cost, yes, to heat it from 60 degrees to 75 degrees will take a lot of energy. But with the right pool cover, the energy required to maintain that temp should be quite small (relatively speaking). And again, a longer season on the part of the Aqua club should result in them paying more fees for use. Pretty simple. And in my recollection, they haven't ever had problems coming up with the money they promise.
To put it another way, the Aqua Club should be the least of our worries.
8:42 AM, the architects said that pool covers are out of the question. The pool is too big and would be difficult to cover every night.
Elaine
The architects are idiots then.
Agreed 8:42 Seniors have been asking a long time for a warmer pool. I believe that 2 years ago we had a very warm June and the pool heated up quickly, but mostly the water is too cold for the recreational swimmer until sometime in July. Many folks join Bower Hill pool just because it is heated, not that they like that facility any better.
March 27-8:03PM-And they can't raise any money to help pay ?
If you have one child who is at the lowest competitive level with the Aqua Club, the annual fee is $941. (This includes the membership fees, fundraising deposit, t-shirt, etc.) Now, if you fundraise (sell a lot of candy and junk) you will get up to $250 back, but only if you sell $250 worth of stuff. Frankly, if I were a member of the Aqua Club and was asked for more money to raise additional money for a cover and heater, I'd ask them what they are using my $941 for.
Now, that amount is for one child at the most basic level of competition. If you have an older child (and just one of them) your membership fee could approach $1600 per year.
Lets not forget the "Special Fees"
Fees for special events and activities shall be set by the Board in a uniform manner and shall be paid in advance in full.
I'm all for upgrading the pool and bath house, but there is a difference between "need" and "want".
The Aqua Club has a limited source of income, just like the municipality and the residents do.
Since this discussion has gone more towards the pool, I have updated the post with media articles and a link to the muni podcast. For the architect's presentation, click on agenda item number three.
From the PG about the pool solar cover:
"Wayne Wade, owner of Wade Associates, said he does not recommend solar covers, which require labor to remove and install each day. Maintaining a "reasonable temperature" of 70 to 80 degrees should be cost effective, he noted.
"The real plus of heating is early in the season," said Mr. Wade, explaining that warmer water is likely to help boost attendance."
Note the mention of the Aqua Club office. Will the Aqua Club be paying rent for this space?
Elaine
12:23 well understood, but it's not fair to expect the majority of households who do not use the pool or other athletic facilities, many of whom are on fixed income and maxed out on taxes, to pay for new/extra pool things you want (but need ?)just because you feel you are maxed out as well.
Sounds like you are in the same general boat as most of the field sports groups, the major and biggest difference being that you in fact do pay Municipal fees for the use of the pool, while none of the field sports groups pay field use fees for municipal athletic fields at all. You, hockey, tennis, but not field sports !
Believe the muni was given a consultants cost estimate of heating a renovated muni pool a few years ago, and it was something just over $30,000/ season. Someone can look it up.
As a resident and not associated with the Aqua Club I could live with a heater or without a heater.
It would be nice, but having grown up in an era where there were many, many communities that didn't even have a pool let alone a heated pool, have we become so soft and pampered that this is a necessity.
I don't want to hear from whining babies that complain about training in cold water. We did and many a teammate sat out until their blue lips returned to a rosy red.
This thing where our kids can't play grass fields, can't swim in a pool that isn't a comfortable 80 degrees is sickening. Christ, they're athletes and supposedly they play for the love of the sport... toughen up, if you love an activity enough you'll find a way to play it come hell or high water.
Now bAck to the beater... if people really want it put it to a vote! And if they do, knock it off with the bullish*t environmental crap!
How much has been spent on no idling signs? Sit out any school on a freezing day and watch the "environmental protectionists" sit in their Lexus and mecedes SUVs with the engines running. Then watch them ignore the No U Turn signs or and this is my favorite - the No LeftTurn sign out of the Mellon teacher's parking lot.
If the majority of the community wants a pool heater- put it to a vote!
For those that do want a heated pool and it doesn't pass, you can always join Bower Hill or the JCC.
I am backing off the Aqua Club. I understand that the office space for Aqua Club was the architect's idea.
I hope the rec. dept.invites the Aqua Club to join the conversation.
Elaine
Not picking onthe Aqua Club, there should be some available space for there equipment and if the community decides it wants warmer water, the club shouldn't have to pay for it.
A slight increase in the Aqua Club's fees would be appropriate rather than one big check.
Back to the original topic the new system for watching commission meetings is great and convenient. So long as it never gets used as a propaganda tool.
Mt.Lebanon is spending $3.3 million on our swimming pool and bath house and the Aqua Club doesn't have a member on the new Sports Advisory Board. What is wrong with this picture?
Elaine
Elaine,
They reportedly did not respond to the opportunity or submit am application form. They also were not invited the pool presentation at the Commission meeting and didn't know about it until a Commissioner had to tip them off about it. Five male officers/members showed up, did not comment during a special citizens comments session on the pool, and left shortly thereafter, silent.
Very strange behavior !
12:29 AM, i understand that they did submit an application to join the SAB, but were too late. It was after the deadline.
Elaine
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