- There is no windfall. Act 1 will permit 1.7% in real estate dollars plus exceptions.
- Goldman, Ostergaard and Remely will not support the budget.
- No Cooperisms other than he could not hear parts of the meeting while phoning in.
- Posti indicated that residents' income in 15228, our largest zipcode, have collectively seen an increase in their incomes of 12.6% since 2010.
- Posti (approximately at the 1:20:00 mark) also stated that while some of the critics bet three years ago that the millage increase needed to fund the high school project would tax people out of their homes, impact our housing market, and make our community undesirable for new families to move to, it has not been the case. In fact our housing market has remained strong, the increases have not been as high as predicted. Even our critics have chosen to remain in the community. Betting on failure is always a losing bet.
- Goldman felt that we have not had those hard conversations.
I, for one, have not "chosen" to remain in the community. I am stuck here. I am working to fix up my house for when I am forced out when the deer killing begins. I have virtually no income and have been living a modest life since the first time I spoke about the budget in 2010. So it has been a slow process. I resent Posti saying that critics have chosen to remain here. I absolutely hate what our elected officials have done to this town.
51 comments:
Glad you pointed out Posti's Socialist remarks!
She says residents' income in zip code 15228 have "collectively" increased 12.6%
I didn't realize I was living on a collective. (wasn't it a historical fact that Russian and Cuban collectives failed miserably.)
But besides that she seems to completely ignore the 15.2% millage rise over the past five years.
Actually, I think she did, 12:35 PM. She compared us to USC and other SD. But what she didn't take into consideration is that our enrollment is declining and that while yes, USC is right behind us, it could be because their administrators wouldn't accept increases.
Elaine
Yes she did recognize the 15.2% millage rate increase, but she didn't compare the 12.6% collective income rise with the 15.2% millage increase.
Didn't Bill Matthews say the millage rate was outpacing the earned income rate in MTL?
Maybe Posti needs to read some AFL-CIO literature.
http://www.aflcio.org/Corporate-Watch/CEO-Pay-and-You
"In the past few decades, CEO pay has skyrocketed while the average worker’s pay has stagnated despite increases in productivity. Multinational corporations park their profits overseas and shirk their responsibilities as taxpayers. The middle class is dwindling and more and more working people are living hand-to-mouth. Learn more about the pervasive inequality in the United States and spread the word..
So collectively 15228 income may have gone up 12.6%. But only a fool would assume (then use that figure as justification for 'taking' more money from peoples pockets) that every individual family saw that kind of increase.
I'm with Elaine Gillen here. If I could afford to get out I would, so we're not staying by choice. Plus, I think a lot of people are taking hard looks at the situation regarding taxes and are on the verge of moving, JoJo. Moving a household, finding a new location and moving your kids away from their friends is not a decision that one makes overnight.
If you choose to be "stuck" here, you still have made a choice.
If our MTL housing market has remained strong why did the county see fit to in many cases to lower many high priced properties reassessment from their 2002 values.?
And don't tell me because they were overassessed in 2002! Look at many recent sales in the $500,000+ range and compare - asking price - sale price - 2013 assessed value.
1:06 tell me, if you don't have any equity in your home, don't have enough money to walk away or for a second down payment and maybe are laid off, disabled or need to be close to an aging relative that isn't ready for a nursing facility but needs some daily attention how do you move.
You are a narcisstic, self-absorbed ass that can't see beyond your own nose.
It's people like you that make Mt. Lebanon the community it is today, as opposed to the community it used to be!
Mt. Lebanon has over 2600 rental properties.....with no real estate taxes due!!!
I have lived in Lebo for over 40 years 1:35. So, in reality, the only difference in our community is people like YOU!!!!
JoPo forgot to bring up the back-to-back double-digit millage increases:
Year Millage Increase
2002 18.12
2003 20.16 11.26%
2004 22.76 12.90%
Any increase over the last 5 years is compounded on top of earlier increases.
I love it how the same people who say, "You don't like it, leave!"
are the same ones who say, "You chose to live here!"
Landlords pay real estate taxes 1:52 so what is your point?
12:35 PM Ms. Posti said collectively, if she would have said average would you whine as well? Her remarks had nothing to do with socialism.
http://www.thealmanac.net/article/20130415/NEWS/130419963#.UW2cgSd5mc0
"Mt. Lebanon makes changes to property inspection ordinance
Spurred by outcries and disapproval by landlords and renters, Mt. Lebanon commissioners held a public hearing for the second draft of a newly-introduced ordinance that requires owners of multiple unit buildings to register their properties with the municipality and undergo regular inspections.
The second public hearing was held at the commissioners’ April 9 meeting. The first public hearing for the introduction of the ordinance was held on Feb. 25."
1:52, you might want to attend the next commission meeting on the inspection ordinance and tell the landlords and their tenants that there aren't any real estate taxes on rental property! Tell me if you're going to go, because I want to be there when everybody laughs you out of the room.
Apparently the board's discussion on commercial property assessment hearings went completely over your head.
Are you really that stupid? Do you think the landlord eats the taxes, that they don't include taxes, rain water fees, building insurance, maintenance, future inspection fees, etc., in the monthly rental rate?
You may avoid an increase while your lease is in effect, maybe depending on how it's written, but at some point you or the next tenant will pay the increase.
3:06 yes even if she had said average., because it is a silly justification for raising school taxes.
As an example, let's say you have a zip code with 3 households.
#1. household's income is $1,000,000.
#2. is $110,000.
#2. is $70,000.
The average income is $393,333. So, gee using Ms. Posti's logic all three can very easily afford a hefty hike in school taxes.
For #1 certainly they can, it'll be a breeze and in their daily life it'll hardly make a dent.
#2. they'll be able to get by, maybe they 'll give up a pizza or two. Maybe have Mac & Cheese a little more often rather than steak.
#3. they're going to notice. Maybe they are a senior, on a fixed income (remember Obsma wants to cut Social Security COLAs) and just managing their bills and mounting health care cost.
Yeah, sure as some suggest here... hey #3 get the hell out, you can't afford to live here. The millionaire wants a new school, new sports opportunities and articial turf.
The same goes for her collective example. A 12.6% collective increase in income may not reflect realities for the same possibilities. #1 may have seen a huge, huge increase, #2 & 3 may have had little or no increases in income.
N
3:51 apparently you're one of this dummies that needs to be spoon fed and led by the hand.
Buy any property in Mt. Lebanon and see if that property doesn't pay real estate taxes. (unless of course it is a tax exempt property like a chucrh)
So sure, as a tenant you don't write a check directly to the school district, BUT FOOL... the landlord does!
And if you think that if his property tax goes up he just pays it and doesn't pass the increase onto his tenants asap he's a bad businessman or incredibly generous.
Do you run a business 3:51? As your cost go up, do you raise your prices?
Let's say you make ketchup and your charge a dollar a bottle. When the real estate taxes go up on your plant and the cost of a bushel of tomatoes rises and dieself fuel for your truck goes from $3.50 to $3.90/gal., how log do you continue to sell a bottle for $1.00?
Your customers don't buy tomatoes, own the plant or buy fuel but they still pay for them.
What you do, take economics from Mr. Cooper, who believes a million dollar tax hike is like a zero dollar tax hike?
3:51 Name calling is unbecoming. When you rent, the landlord budgets his taxes into your rent. The real estate taxes on the property are paid by the landlord. There is no property that is untaxed. Seems to me that you want to double dip-you must be a republican!
3:51 damn you just told everybody how to avoid real estate taxes!
We'll put the house in my wife's name, she'll be the landlord... then I'll rent it from her. Viola, renters don't pay real estate taxes, right!
Thanks for the tip.
What did the women on the commission and school board teach the Girl Scouts? Excluding Kelly Fraasch, the remaining female officials don't practice The Girl Scout Law.
The Girl Scout Law
I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.
Come to think of it, the Girls Scouts can teach these women plenty.
Elaine
I believe that the women on the board are all non paid elected officials who are doing the best job that they can. Just because YOU don't agree with them, and they don't bend to your will, doesn't make them honorable. I happen to agree with what is happening in our community. I do not make $100,000 a year, I am a single parent. I do not mind paying taxes to keep the quality of life that we have here.
And, I will not call you stupid, nor will I tell you to read (fast or slow) I will also refrain from saying that you "are a narcisstic, self-absorbed ass that can't see beyond your own nose".
To 2:41--whats your name? If youve lived in Lebo for 40 years I'd love to hear your perspective on how things are similar or different in your eyes.
5:47 PM, are they helpful? Friendly? Considerate? Caring? Respectful? Responsible for their actions? Are we talking about the same board?
Elaine
5:47 I'm assuming you meant dishonorable and on that yeah, just because they don't bend to someone's will they are still honorable.
But, in case you haven't been following closely several have done some less than honorable stuff, publically and in the press.
Also, you may be right, they may be doing the best they can, that to doesn't make what they are doing - right.
I'd hare to be on an airplane where the pilot had a heart attack and a passenger jumps in and tries to fly the plane.
I hate for my last words to be before wevrash into the ground, "hey it's OK they were doing the best they could!" You can bet I'd have my respect for them, if they said look if you can reach someone on the radio or find a flight manual.
As for calling someone stupid, what can you call someone that says renters don't pay property tax?
As for telling someone to read fast or slow you'll have to ask the other person what they were inferring.
Posti is a hack and totally dishonest. Im disappointed the water company chooses to employ her. Im disheartened she chooses to onlypay half the taxes she should. She chooses to be mean and petty, chooses to not educate herself on how budgets work, made the choice many times to plagiarize, chose to attack decent people who ran for office and generally chooses to sound like a buffoon when she tries to spin things like her poor decisions. Its pretty clear why she failed as an entrepeneur--she literally has no idea what she's doing.
1:06 Stop acting like a bulley and go to counseling. Elaine does a great job ferreting the truth!
Isn't that statement telling!
"Even our critics have chosen to remain in the community."
What is she saying? If you're critical of board, you have to get out! Is she saying, we run the community anyone with an opposing position is a critic? You must follow along because we know best!
Has JoJo taken on the persona of the All Powerful Wizard of Oz. Manipulating levers and bottoms while hiding behind a curtain that hides her real ineptitude.
To me that is a pretty damning sentiment: "even our critics have chosen to stay!"
Maybe we stay Jo, because we don't think the community belongs to you, it belongs to all of us.
919, you get it. Immature nitwits like JoPo and Pooch see the world in terms of winning/losing and my side/your side...like children.
Message to JoPo: we choose to stay for a lot of reasons. My reason is because thanks to your idiotic monument to your ego, i can only get out of my house what i put into it. Its a break even. Ive run across a lot of people who choose to not move here based on the current AND pending taxes. You're a liar. You're not a leadet. Never have been and never will be. Crawl back into thw shadows and take youe internet trolls with you.
Isn't it funny that the board approved a resolution to urge Harrisburg to send them more money for their overindulgent high school project.
They can essentially 'petition' Harrisburg for more money that it really does have, and they're diligent leaders.
But, when residents petition the board not to spend more money than absolutely necessary, they are critics.
Isn't that a little two faced Jo?
Maybe Gov. Corbett should get on TV and announce: "even our critics have chosen to remain in the state."
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander, Jo.
Once again, the "oh, I'm just so smart" Posti fans prove how out of touch they are.
In today's Trib:
"Rent, number of apartments on rise in W.Pa."
"When Kathy DiLorenzo decided to give up her home and become an apartment dweller, she found her housing costs didn‘t change drastically.
Rents for apartments in the Pittsburgh area have been on the rise, increasing faster than inflation, according to a Census Bureau report released Tuesday, and sparking a mini-boom in construction of multifamily complexes in the region."
http://triblive.com/mobile/3780438-96/downtown-apartments-pittsburgh
Hmmm, wonder why we're not seeing a mini-boom in La, la, la, la Leboland, 3:51. You'd think with cheap "no real estate taxes" here, people would be lined up all the way to Peters for an apartment.
God, I hope you're not a commissioner or school director.
5:29 - 3:51 could just as easily be a democrat. Who else thinks that they don't have to pay for the things they want in life.
Please don't think that Posti is right. Yes, some of us critics have stayed for numerous reasons. But, how many people do you know personally that have left?
I know I know a few.
8:16 I know some that have left and a bunch who are either going to or are in the process. One family is heading to Florida to get out of the taxes in PA.
It is funny to think that even the Mt. Lebanon School Board critics of Gov. Corbett's budget cuts still choose to live in PA and even seek public office to serve where they depend on that "heartless Gov. of PA" to support their excessive budgets!
The P in Posti surely stands for POMPOUS!
Wouldn't it be ironic to see Posti leave after her kids are out of school?
Doesn't anyone stop and ponder why such an affluent, premier community and school district needs to go begging for money like a common panhandler?
For most of it's 100 year history MTL was view as a community that could pretty afford almost anything its "collective" heart desired. But now, it wants it all and it wants somebody else to pay for it.
The Sports Cabal wants turfed and lighted fields yet has failed every time to get the balls rolling with a downpayment.
People living in homes that they paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for over their 2013 reassessments see no problem telling other people to shut up and pay for their grandiose projects.
Then you have municipal employees and school staff making far above what they could earn and retire with in the private sector wanting more and more. Acting like they've been abused when residents ask them not to take less but only to slow the pace of their increases.
This certainly isn't our father's Mt. Lebanon.
It will be more ironic to see her position on the next school district renovation project when she's on the cusp of retirement, the kids are in college or out of the nest and her prospects for ever increasing income are on the wane.
For everyone that moves out, someone moves in. Good luck with Florida public schools, for the most part they are horrible!
A few observations:
1. During the same period of time that "residents' income in zip code 15228 have collectively increased 12.6%" the rate of inflation increased by 5%, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This puts the effective rate of increase for that span of time at 7.6%. Mrs. Posti does not say how she derived her 12.6% figure, but one must assume she took figures from 2010, 2011, and 2012 (the last year that such numbers would be available) and averaged them. The 5% figure from the BLS is from 2010 through the end of 2012 (it is 7% if extended to date in 2013). Therefore the average rate of wage increase in 15228 is 2.53% per year for the period Mrs. Posti adduces. Better than average? - yes, but read on.
2. How many wage earners in 15228 (or anyplace in Mt. Lebanon) are local government employees? - in particular, employees of the District? Taxes "paid" by these people only ameliorate the rate of increase in the District's expenses. One should not expect people paid out of a pool of tax dollars to send part of their paychecks back into the same pool and have that pool increase. (Thought experiment: How much tax money would the District collect if every working person in Mt. Lebanon worked for the District?)
3. The phrase "ask them to pay more" was used several times in connection with the District's budget and Mt. Lebanon taxpayers. In actual fact, local taxpayers are not "asked to pay more"; the force of law and guns dictates that they pay more if the Directors so decide, whether they want to or not.
4. The constant refrain of almost any District meeting is that "people move here for the schools." I concede that some people DO move here for the schools. However, if the rate of immigration into Mt. Lebanon on account of District schools was as great as is implied by our Directors then the student population would be much larger than it is. Currently between 15% to 16% of the total population of Mt. Lebanon consists of District students (using the District's own figures). Even if one were to allow that each student comes from a different two-parent family, the total number of parents plus children in Mt. Lebanon would still not come to half of the total population of the Municipality. Obviously, many families have more than one kid in our schools.
5. As to "..even our critics have chosen to remain in the community," I would remind Mrs. Posti and the other Directors that this is America and the conditions of citizenship do not proscribe criticism of a local government. Everyone who moved to Mt. Lebanon had his or her reasons for doing so, and it may come as a shock to the District that local schools may have played a minor part - if any part at all - in that decision. In the same vein, everyone who stays in Mt. Lebanon does so for individual reasons; which is what makes this community so interesting. Just as there is no such thing as a "collective mind," there is no collective reason why a critic of the District stays put, and certainly there is no justification in suggesting that District critics must perforce leave the Municipality.
Lastly, I wish to heaven that anonymous posters would proofread their posts before sending them to the Blog! I don't care if you are "pro or con," and I'm not complaining about the occasional typo - I do that myself!: but the daily mangling of the English language on this Blog is enough to drive an old teacher to drink! WRITE - READ - CORRECT - POST!
9:57, Posti's position for the next renovation project will be the only Citizen representative on the Master Design Team.
Then she'll move after the damage is done.
Yes, Mr. Gideon your suggestion to proof comments before submitting is a good one.
This anonymous blogger does try, though unsuccessfully.
Part of the reason for the typos stems from working on a tiny screen and keyboard. Others are as one edits some bizarre auto spell events occur and often the line scrolls out of the text box before you can catch it.
There is always the preview but even that raises a whole new set of complications.
Another consideration is time. Bloggers may be trying to get their thoughts on screen during breaks, on the T or while watching kids.
Those are poor excuses for sure, but unfortunately even our founding fathers made their share of typos and grammatical errors.
Plus,have you checked the professionals writing on the Trib and PGs web sites. They're getting paid to write and still make mistakes.
I will though attempt to do better.
10:01 Their kids are grown, so they don't need schools, just like the 78% of residents here who don't have kids in school, (and also the many other residents here who choose private school over the Mt. Lebanon public option.) They would like to stay here but are disgusted with the ever increasing taxes.
Can you think for just one moment beyond yourself?
SHOULD THE CRITICS BE EVEN MORE CRITICAL?
Q: Before the PDE sends any PlanCon H funds to the school district, shouldn't the Auditor General investigate some specific change orders coming up in the project?
As Mr. Remely said: a 30" discrepancy in a floor elevation is unacceptable.
Here are the responsibilities of the Auditor General according to wiki.
"Responsibilities
The office performs financial audits of state agencies, municipal governments, school districts, public sector pensions, entities that receive state funding support (such as certain universities and hospitals), and corporate tax returns. These audits are designed as an accountability mechanism and serve to ensure that public money is spent in an appropriate manner."
There have been a number of questionable change orders for missing items, like water line feeds to boilers, power to pumps, and duct work through elevator shafts that one would think would be hard to miss during the bid process. Especially on a project supposedily scrutinized as throughly as this one.
Is the state/taxpayer money being spent in a responsible manner? Wonder if our state senator has any concerns about responsible use of his constituents money? I'd ask about our state representative too, but right now we don't have one.
Are you kidding? Matt Smith wouldn't touch this one with a 10 foot pole - it's not the kind of thing photo ops are made of.
12:17 PM, thank you for bringing up PlanCon H. Cappucci had included in her report that PlanCon H had been submitted. She must have read my post. You know they all ask for feedback, yet when you share your thoughts, you are labeled.
How about the Act 34 Hearing? http://www.mtlsd.org/highschoolrenovation/act34.asp Charlotte Stephenson and I submitted 3,333 signatures of those who were not in favor of overextending ourselves. Again, more feedback. Do you suppose this had some bearing on the PlanCon process?
Scott Goldman expresses his concerns meeting after meeting. Did you see Larry attack him at the last meeting? How about when Remely says something against the status quo? Cappucci snaps at him. The school board majority is not kind and considerate. When I questioned certain actions concerning the budget, my head was chopped off. Cappucci had mentioned at Monday's meeting how people came to meetings over saving librarians, the FLES program and Mrs. Kolko's job. I was at the budget meeting when it was filled with school principals, foreign language teachers and librarians. They were asked to attend. Why not? They were trying to save their jobs.How about when parents attended over the Terc math program? They were rudely treated. How about when Bill Matthews was given four minutes to talk about the budget? Cappucci was chomping at the bit and watched the time clock instead of listening. Timmy was counting the pages of Bill's presentation.
Will Matt Smith do something for us? Hardly. Will we get help from the state rep? Doubtful. Going to the Auditor General? Ha! The PDE failed us too. No wonder the Board is so arrogant. They are unstoppable.
I am getting hits from school districts all over the state. Folks, it is all smoke and mirrors here. Feed your kids snacks for the PSSA's and your ranking will improve. Then you can push your constituents all over the parking lot as our school board does to us.
Elaine
Hello, calling Ms. Posti. Hobby Lobby anyone?
Posti's next post:
In the Ghetto, part 2
Hobby shops are soooo second class. Really,who has time to sit around and build models other than unemployed people (you know, THOSE kinds of people). Hobby shops...ugh. If people want to build models they should totly move to Peter's. Lebo is all about schools and being invited to high school football games (cuz i wasnt all that popular in high school and now im so cool). Nobody moves here for stupid hobby shops or sidewalks or proximity to other places. People only move here for the schools. And high taxes. And snobs. Totally.
Hobby Lobby? What am I missing here?
Elaine
I missed Capucci's report. She didn't happen to mention whether the PDE accepted the Plan Con H submission and approved it, did she?
Or is PlanCon just a formality to make it appear that there is proper oversight on school construction projects?
Sorry, not Hobby Lobby. AB Charles the hobby shop that left Mt. Lebanon for greener pastures.
http://peters.patch.com/articles/mt-lebanon-shop-moving-to-peters
He's going where the action is and it isn't Mt. Lebanon.
2:10 PM, Cappucci started talking about the PlanCon process at the 18:32 mark. At almost 20 minutes into the meeting, (19:54) Elaine said that planCon H was submitted. She never said it was accepted or approved. They are expecting $450,000 to be refunded.
Elaine
General instructions for PlanCon H in the first sentence reads: "Plan Con H is required for each financing source (bond issue, note, etc.,) used to finance a project."
So maybe the hold up on the state reimbursement is due to the fact that the district has not yet issued the second bond to finance the project.
I'm not a lawyer, but how can the state approve Plan Con H if the financing for the project hasn't been completed? Unless, the district is allowed to submit the financing for pieces of the project.
If that is the case, how does the district identify which part of the project is being financed by the first bond issue?
The district isn't working on the project in stages as James Fraasch advised. Instead they went ahead full bore and appear to have gotten caught with their plancons down.
PlanCon is a sick joke. Remember how many things, our PlanCon consultant, Dickie Jaynes,had changed by just checking a box. Remember his remark: "Don't pay any attention to the boxes on the left side of the page, just pay attention to the boxes on the right side of the page." Remember how quickly he could get things changed by the Department of Education. Hey Dickie! Call the Department and get us the reimbursement!
Any information here?
http://www.mtlsd.org/highschoolrenovation/projectfinancing.asp
Elaine
Elaine, when you click on http://www.mtlsd.org/highschoolrenovation/projectfinancing.asp
there is no mention of architectural vs. financial. There are two reimbursable percentages: one architectural and one financial." is a complete lie.
The District made it up to explain the missing 8% reimbursement.
Based on Mr. Gideon's numbers from his 10:14 post - "Therefore the average rate of wage increase in 15228 is 2.53% per year for the period Mrs. Posti adduces. Better than average? - yes, but read on." - why are we giving our teachers and administrators raises that far outpace our own!
Why 4.5% for teachers? Wouldn't 3% show our appreciation for their work?
Plus, what does that say about the superintendent's and finance director's raises plus perks?
Sure, they're looking out for the kids! They'll take every dime they can get and with a straight face suggest cutting librarians.
Before we do anything else, we must stop accepting the claim that the employees of the district are different from any other worker.
Millions of private sector employees accepted pay cuts, longer hours, furloughs while continuing to support the firms that employ them.
Ask teachers for help and they'll walk out or as we're experiencing - file a grevience.
Post a Comment