OK Kristen, you win. Now go away.
The commissioners approved the deer management plan that I shared on this blog. They have approved archery and "trap and bolt,: as their lethal deer management plan.
Mt. Lebanon is applying to the Game Commission for a broader archery program and the use of “trap-and-bolt” methods that can take place on public or private land with the homeowner's consent. With trapping, deer are lured into a corral with bait, shut in with an automatic gate, then killed with a captive-bolt gun to their heads similar to those used in slaughterhouses.
The commission will then submit a second application for using surgical sterilization to control the deer population, though Benner's report noted that Pennsylvania has never approved it before.Read more: Mt. Lebanon approves archery, trapping to cull deer population
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/mt-lebanon-council-votes-how-deal-growing-deer-pop/njFZ7/
Update November 29, 2014 6:56 PM
The game commission requires any deer-management plan to include controlled hunting on public land, which the staff and Mt. Lebanon commissioners decided could be implemented fastest by signing up municipal employees who are experienced hunters.Read more: Mt. Lebanon staffers become hunters to attack deer problem
106 comments:
Just so everyone knows, there will be NO aerial survey. The numbers from the 2014 survey showed a decline in population. The deer crashes report was pulled because it showed a decline in deer crashes and was replaced with the deer "incident" report.
Kelly Fraasch was the only commissioner who voted against the budget amendments because she would not associate herself with Wildcat expenditures.
Elaine
I watched Commissioner Linfante being interviewed on WPXI beaming in her glory and unable to contain her glee talking about killing deer, and spreading the same old scare tactic propaganda about Lyme disease. Of course, every one that knows the truth, knows that her dangerous agenda of bringing in bow hunters, trap-and-bolt, and pushing for high powered rifle shooters to kill deer in residents yards and parks, which threatens the safety of all of Mt. Lebanon's families, children, and pets, is all about deer eating the flowers and plants of an elitist group of Mt. Lebanonites who refuse to plant deer resistant flowers, use repellents, or deterrents. I'm truly amazed how people who can enjoy the beauty of a flower or music, can have such ugly hearts and souls. Where do these heartless women come from? The vast majority of Mt. Lebanon residents would rather see a deer or a joyful fawn playing in their back yard than armed men with lethal weapons in battle fatigues prowling our neighborhoods. The Humane Society of the United States' wildlife biologist, Laura Simon, presented a comprehensive safe, effective, and humane plan to the Commission to reduce deer browsing, deer-human conflicts, and car-deer collisions, which was totally ignored. So thanks to Commissioner Linfante, Mt. Lebanon will be turned into a private hunting club and a bloody killing field for this years Hanukkah celebration, and the Christian celebration of the birth of Jesus, the Prince of Peace and compassion.
I just don't get it. What will be the legacy of this commission?
+ Overtaxing new residents
+ Removing beautiful and functional green fields in favor of toxic and expensive turf
+ Killing deer
... What a terrible mismanagement of privilege. Mt. Lebanon is a true oligarchy right now.
And then revolution will come...
- Jason M.
Jason,a biggie includes taking money designated for Bower Hill to pay for a change order for the turf project. That is a M*A*J*O*R no no.
Elaine
Once again the majority has acted and you are not in the majority. Have you ever wondered why? Get over it. Removing some deer will make us a safer community.
Elitist for some but not all.. there is resident in my neighborhood, who is very blue collar but has had pristine landscaping.. they have been very local about deer for years.. and any other annoyance ie barking dogs.Finally after my years of complaining to the commission, they finally had a ear to their complaints with the election of Ms. LinFante...she was their lady in Blue (Democrat) who would finally listen to their unreasonable complaints.. I dont know Ms. Finfante personally,, but a couple of her constituents are truly HEARTLESS.. humans..
SPEND SPEND SPEND GOTTA SPEND THAT $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Does Chatham Baroque know that one of their "members" has just exposed their organization to protests with graphic signs of deceased deer? Stay tuned for additional information regarding time and date.
Kristen at 8:36 AM, you got your f-ing deer cull. Now you can resign.
Elaine
Now what are we going to do about the chickens running around in the middle of Washington Road??? Sure they stop traffic,, but heck they're ok cause they dont eat any landscaping!
I think sending comments and protesting any of the organizations she may be involved with, including Chatham and Burgh Vivant would be a start. I urge you all to contact them today!
Noooo 9:54, we'll next have culling for chickens, bees and domestic animals that venture beyond their assigned property limits. We're sticklers for public compliance you know. Maybe all adult residents should be given bows & arrows and pepper spray by the Muni and trained & certified - like a militia with a constitutional right, in the name of health, safety and the public welfare. Those ticks are really dangerous. The "Gang of Four" Commissioners can manage the campaign and we can be laughed at and made fun of round the world. People will move here in droves to join the frolic. They won't be desirable, but what the heck, we're open minded, inclusive and otherwise totally progressive.
You seem to have a perfect record. Is there anything that you have ever advocated that passed? Keep up the good work.
Chatham Baroque's website is gone... hmm.
You can leave comments on Chatham Baroque's Facebook page in the meantime: https://www.facebook.com/chathambaroque
12:23 PM, I am quite proud of my perfect record. I can never be blamed for any of it when it goes terribly wrong. I can sleep at night knowing that I can't be associated with any of the thugs of Mt. Lebanon.
Elaine
Even if the deer culling achieves 100% of its goal of reducing deer-related car accidents by half, that's only 23 accidents per year. Based on the first 30 police blotters I could find in a Google search (all from 2013), a quick estimate is that there are about 480 vehicles involved in accidents per year from all causes. So a 100% successful culling will reduce the overall risk of being in an accident by about 5%.
That's not much.
Tom, It is not much until you are one of the 5% who was saved from a potential fatal accident!
1:45 That sounds like a high number accidents for a walking community with award winning traffic management.
On another note, when did public works, the fire department, and police staff become skilled in archery? Are they taking hunter education courses? Where are they honing their skills? Archery requires *extensive* practice for success. Is this what our police, public works, and fire dept staff will be doing instead of...their jobs?
Kristen Linfante deserves to be spit on.
4:34 The high-speed driver may just get into an accident with something or someone else. Driver behavior is a significant and confounding variable neglected in the MTL analysis of how to reduce driver-deer collisions.
I added the WPXI video from last night's meeting. Kristen has the same grin that she had during the Candidates Forum back in 2011, sitting next to me on the stage, grinning while she said, "We must kill the deer."
Go away, Kristen. That is all you cared about. Your work is done. Please leave.
Elaine
You can tell by the way she's talking she's lying.
Elaine - Channel 11 is having more on this at 6.
The point, anonymous person at 4:34 PM, is that the claimed “deer threat” amounts to fearmongering. The idea that deer pose “a major public safety issue in Mt. Lebanon,” as Kristen Linfante has repeatedly claimed – and just did so again for WPXI – is a fiction.
Her proposed solution, if it turns out to be as effective as hoped, will only reduce overall vehicular risk by 5%. If exposure to just 5% of the overall risk is as dangerous as she seems to believe, where is the even greater concern for the remaining 95% of that overall risk – a danger nearly 20 times larger – that her proposed solution does nothing about?
Hunting is the main cause of car-deer collisions
The Pa Game Commission's (PGC) antiquated "deer management" paradigm is responsible for the size of the deer population and car-deer collisions. The deer are deliberately managed for "maximum sustained yield" for the benefit of its hunter constituents. This artificial propagation of the deer population and hunting are responsible for a majority of car-deer collisions, related injuries, and deaths across the state. According to the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration, most car-deer collisions happen during hunting season. Pennsylvania's second largest insurance company (the nation's 12th largest insurer) — Erie Insurance — collected data that showed a five-fold increase in car-deer collisions on the first day of hunting, and that car-deer collisions remain high throughout hunting season. This is caused by hunters pushing deer out into the roads and panicked wounded deer running into the roads. In addition, once you kill the matriarch doe, whose job it is to safely cross her family, her orphans will run into the roads without caution. How ironic that Mt. Lebanon is implementing a hunting program to reduce car-deer collisions.
Inaccurate Car-Deer Collision Facts
At the recent Deer Forum, Todd Kravits from PennDOT said that there were 277 deer related crashes in all of Allegheny County from 2009 - 2013 and that 2/3rds (67%) of those crashes occurred in Mt. Lebanon. That statement is incredulous. None of his statistics add up or make sense. In a recent Post-Gazette article it said that there were 308 reportable deer related crashes in Allegheny County in 2012 and 263 in 2011 - "A reportable crash is one in which someone is injured or one or more vehicles cannot be driven from the scene." As per Lt. Lauth's presentation, Mt. Lebanon reports deer related crashes in the same way as Allegheny County. In Mt. Lebanon, there was (1) reportable crash in 2011 (tracked since Sept.), (5) in 2012 and (2) in 2013. The 277 deer related crashes in all of Allegheny County is more likely the annual 5 year average. If so, it should be compared to the 1, 5, and 2 reported deer related crashes in Mt. Lebanon 2011-2013. That's obviously not 2/3rd (67%) of all the crashes in Allegheny County, but if averaged would be less than 1%. Mr. Kravits said, "We can really see that there is an issue with deer related crashes in Mt. Lebanon, just from the statistics we have from PennDOT." The statistics that Mr. Kravits presented to the residents of Mt. Lebanon was a totally inaccurate portrayal of reportable car-deer collisions in the community. This is not the "credible" information that the Commission said that it was going to present to the residents, so that they can make up their own minds.
Biased Agenda and Transparency
The Humane Society Of The United States (HSUS) letters to the Commission dated November 8, 2011, opposing a deer hunting and culling program, and November 6, 2012 opposing the clover trap-and-kill program are not posted on the Deer Management Information document page for residents to view. Also, the most recent aerial survey from February 2014, which shows a significant reduction in the deer population compared to the 2013 survey isn't posted. In addition, the Deer Forum on June 10, 2014, which was positioned as a resident education forum, was in reality what looked like an attempt to present a biased view to try to get resident buy-in for their deer killing program. It wasn't a fair and balanced panel, and had specially prepared questions that presented a biased point of view. No residents were allowed to participate or submit questions. These are important issues of government transparency and freedom of speech, that give the impression of intentional bias and censorship.
Why Hunting and Killing Deer Doesn't Reduce the Deer Population
While it may seem counter intuitive, killing deer actually triggers an increase in deer reproduction and population. Reproductive rebound is a well documented population dynamic in deer and other mammals. When the deer herd density is temporarily reduced through hunting, culling, or trapping, there is reduced competition for food, and the number of twins and triplets born actually increases. Studies have show that after a hunt surviving females produced enough offspring to not only replace those killed, but enough to actually increase the size of the herd. This is called reproductive rebound or compensatory reproduction. This phenomenon explains why hunting as a management tool has resulted in an ever-increasing number of deer in this country. For example, a study conducted by the Dept of Wildlife and Range Sciences, School of Forest Resources and Conservation at the University of Florida sampled deer from five separate sites: three hunted and two nonhunted. The study found that the incidence of twins being born to a pregnant doe was higher on hunted land than on non hunted land. The study found the incidence of twinning was 38% on hunted sites and 14% on nonhunted sites. No twinning was observed among pregnant fawns or yearlings from nonhunted areas, whereas...18% of the pregnant yearlings and...33% of the pregnant fawns from hunted areas carried twins." (Reproductive Dynamics Among Disjunct White-tailed Deer Herds in Florida", Journal of Wildlife Management (1985)).
Laura Simon, The Humane Society of the United States's wildlife biologist writes: “One of the main problems with trying to manage deer through any kind of hunting or culling – as repeatedly cited during a Smithsonian Institute conference on Deer Overabundance (McShea et. al 1997) – is that deer are highly prolific, and their high reproductive rate can quickly compensate for declines in their population. They exhibit higher productivity (i.e. more twins and triplets are born, have higher survival rates, etc.) as their numbers lessen and more food becomes available for the remaining deer. In other words, they ‘bounce back’. ... We do not see any evidence that hunting or culling works over the long-term or is an answer for suburban deer conflicts.”
Bottom line, killing deer is not a solution to a problem, but a commitment to a permanent problem.
With all of the fake statistics and fear-mongering, this deer cull feels like a hate crime.
http://lebomag.com/20355/ticket-to-thrive/
“In my mind the health and safety of the municipality is paramount,” says Commission President Kristen Linfante. “Literally everything we do in one way or another is related to the quality of life and health for our residents, from having sound infrastructure [like - I guess - leaky municipal buildings, an eye sore Robb Hollow Park, filthy new pool, flooding, weeds in curbs, dangerous crosswalks, fiscal management] like well-maintained roads (including timely repairs and good snow removal) and effective sewer systems and storm water management [BULLSHIT] to the more obvious ones like well-maintained parks and recreational areas [why do the SAB people say our fields suck?] such as trails, fields, the pool and tennis courts that encourage people to get outdoors and stay active.”
More BS propaganda and a sleeping community follows it. From bogus deer accident claims, to monkey public forums on turf and deer to a Public Works dept. that can't follow its own leaf pick-up schedule or maintain fields... but they have time during the day to play Robin Hood and poach the Queen's deer for her.
Deer and Lyme Disease - THE FACTS
Commissioner Linfante continues to use Lyme disease as a scare tactic to justify her agenda of bringing hunters and snipers with lethal weapons into Mt. Lebanon's neighborhoods and parks, which threatens the safety of all Mt. Lebo's families, children, and pets. I'm posting the scientific facts by the leading Lyme disease experts for everyone's review. These facts emphatically refute Linfante's claims that killing deer will reduce lyme disease rates.
The blacklegged tick that transmits Lyme disease feeds on approximately 27 species of mammal and 70 species of birds. The bacteria is passed through the bite of a tick. But deer do not get Lyme disease nor do they pass it along. Rodents, on the other hand, particularly the white-footed mouse, do contract the disease and pass it along to other ticks that feed on them. Rodents are called “reservoir hosts” for this reason. Deer are not reservoir hosts, they are called “dilution hosts” because, even though a tick can feed on a deer, as one of the many mammals offering blood meals to ticks, the disease is not spread through the deer-tick relationship.
A landmark book published by Oxford University Press called, “Lyme Disease, The Ecology of a Complex System” by Dr. Richard Ostfeld, analyzed and synthesized just about every study to date on this topic. Well over 100 studies are examined in the book, and the conclusion is crystal clear and accessible to the general public: There is little to no correlation between deer and Lyme disease. According to the book, only about 30 percent of ticks are infected with Lyme disease. Four small mammals (including white-footed mice) host 50% of the ticks, but account for 90% of infected ticks. That means that all the other possible hosts account for only 10% of infected ticks. There are, in fact, no credible (peer reviewed) studies that correlate a reduction in deer numbers with a reduction in Lyme disease.
"I am a research scientist who has devoted much of the past twenty years to understanding the ecology of Lyme disease, and other tick-borne infections. A comprhensive review of all the scientific literature on the relationship between numbers of deer and numbers of ticks reveals that the majority of studies find no statistical correlation at all. The lack of a correlation derives from the following facts: (1) deer do not infect ticks with Lyme bacteria, and actually reduce the infection prevalence in tick populations; (2) adult black legged ticks feed on at least 27 different species of mammals and are not specialists on white-tailed deer; (3) when deer populations are culled, ticks crowd onto the remaining deer, resulting in similar total numbers of tick meals; and (4) even when deer affect the number of eggs laid by adult ticks and resulting abundance of larvae, numbers of larvae do not predict numbers of nymphs (nymphs are responsible for transmitting Lyme disease to people). Moreover, although mention is made of deer thresholds in the non-peer-reviewed literature, no scientific data support the existence of a deer density threshold below which ticks decline to low numbers. Scientific literature on which my statements are based can be found in the book cited above." (Dr. Richard Ostfeld)
In addition, recent work by Dr. Tamara Awerbuch of the Harvard School of Public Health, confirms that deer are not the culprit for Lyme disease but in fact it is the white-footed mouse ("Killing Deer Not the Answer to Reducing Lyme Disease", Says HSPH Scientist" interview dated 11/23/10). Dr. Awerbuch states that, "There is NO linear correlation between killing deer and the tick population."
The American Lyme Disease Foundation does not advocate for deer killing programs to control the spread of Lyme disease.
This research emphatically refutes the notion that killing deer will reduce lyme disease rates. In the face of these undisputable facts it becomes unsupportable to kill deer for Lyme disease reasons.
I would be more car accidents are caused by people talking on the cell phone and/or texting while driving in Mt Lebanon than by deer.
The WPXI reports states that there were four people hurt from deer accidents. How many pedestrians have been hurt or killed in Mt. Lebanon, since the tragic death of Lisa Styles? Weren't there four hit-and-runs in the past couple of months?
What is the real problem, Kristen? Deer or drivers?
Elaine
I'm more upset that an intersection deemed as being hazardous has been raided to pay for a STUPID sports field! The next person in an accident at that light will win Mt Lebanon's LOTTERY. What STUPID commissioners we have....
4:34 that is silly. Can you specifically point out which accidents in the police blotter are "near fatal collision" resulting from a deer?
Personally, I found the issue to be the drivers. Our lovely Markham area street was like a speedway...all because of people that lived on our street. As a runner, I cannot tell you how many times I have been in a crosswalk with a walk sign and someone runs a red light turning onto Washington Road. (I tend to be an early morning runner...Sundays are by far the worst for these type of near misses.) Fortunately, my assumption is that drivers in Lebo suck and so I'm always on alert...and without headphones.
Deer? Not an issue for me. They eat my flowers but oh well.
11:43 PM, there is a matriarch doe in our neighborhood with a bad front leg. When she runs, she is fine, but when she grazes, she limps. My neighbors have called Animal Control several times over this doe. I hate to see her killed since she takes care of her two fawns. I know who is calling since I read the deer "incident" report, you know, the one that even has MY ADDRESS listed as an incident!
During the last two deer kills, I saw orphaned deer. So sad. They didn't know what to do. So very sad.
I despise what our psychopathic commissioner has done here. Who smiles when they talk about killing deer? Kristen. Who has a disregard for the rights of others? Kristen. Who exhibits no remorse or guilt? Kristen. Who uses meanness to gain empowerment? Kristen. Who is narcissistic? Kristen. Who never tells the truth? Kristen. Who was the "lone wolf" when it came to deer culling? Kristen. Who is our commission president? Kristen.
OMG.
Elaine
I know a lot of hunters, including me, who smile when talking about killing deer. It is what we do. Are you against all hunting?
I get that, 1:26 PM. Kristen is not a hunter. I have never seen someone smile so much talking about killing deer, Lyme Disease, and deer collisions. Have you?
Elaine
Can someone who has been thru a MTL deer cull tell me if they expect real archery on the golf course or just pretend "yes, we tried" archery to fulfill a game commission requirement?
And so it begins. Having gone through two MTL deer culls, the pro-kill will complain that there will be some deer surviving the cull. It's disgusting.
Elaine
From 8:24 - I'm totally against the cull. But what I am even more against is unprofessional and untrained individuals attempting archery. I have some experience with archery as my father was a very skilled archer -- which required significant dedication and practice. (note to Kristen: how often do u practice your instrument?!). Hunters are not necessarily skilled archers. I am in disbelief that MtL is hoping to round up a few archers from muni and conduct a safe, respectful, and humane cull on our golf course!
9:11 PM, so many more questions. Does Keystone Oaks know that Mt. Lebanon will be shooting deer up the road from their elementary school? Elementary school students can be sitting in class and seeing deer running around bleeding with arrows stuck in them just outside.
Will Public Works and the First Responders be killing deer on the clock? Will that free up the $68,000 for more change orders for the turf project?
Will the culling be paid in part by residents who want deer killed in their yards? How about 25% non -municipal funding?
Will people start writing to the commission and go to the next commission meeting and speak during Citizen Comments? I hope so.
Elaine
Hey 1:26 pm, smiling deer killer, please go and entertain yourself killing animals in Venango County or some other public hunting grounds. We don't want you prowling around our back yards with lethal weapons threatening the safety of our children or pets in Mt. Lebanon. Thank You.
Bow Hunting 50% + Wounding Rate
Twenty- two published scientific surveys and studies indicate that the average wounding rate for bow hunting is over 50 percent.
For example, "Preliminary Archery Survey Report" Montana Dept. of Fish Wildlife and Parks reports 51% wounding; "Archery Wounding Loss in Texas" Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (51% wounded); "Deer Hunting Retrieval Rates" Michigan Pittman-Robertson Report, Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources (58% wounded); "Effects of Compound Bow Use on Hunter Success and Crippling Rates in Iowa" Wildlife Society Bulletin (49% wounded); "Bow hunting for Deer in Vermont: Some Characteristics of the Hunters, the Hunt, and the Harvest" Vermont Fish and Game Department (63% wounded). The average wounding rate from all 22 reports is 55%.
More than one out of every two deer shot is never retrieved, but dies a slow tortuous death from blood loss and infection. These wounded deer will be dying in residents yards traumatizing families and their children, and running out into the roads causing accidents. In addition, bow hunters often mistake resident's dogs for deer.
Laura Simon, The Humane Society of the United States' wildlife biologist, writes, "Bow-hunting is undeniably inhumane and can incur crippling rates ranging from 40%-60% (Gregory 2005, Nixon et. al 2001, Moen 1989, Cada 1988, Boydston and Gore 1987, Langenau 1986, Gladfelter 1983, Stormer et. al, 1979, Downing 1971). In other words, on average, for every deer struck by an arrow, another may be crippled but not killed. The sight of wounded deer can be extremely traumatic for adults and children alike, and was one of the main reasons that a deer hunt on Fire Island in NY was called off and a immunocontraception-based program implemented instead."
Who Will Police the Police?
I agree with many of the other posters who expressed serious concerns that the Mt. Lebanon's police, firefighters, and public works employees are going to be the hunters hunting in our community. This disturbs me on so many levels.
First, I'm sure that Tom Ogden, Mt. Lebo's past Chief of Police of almost 30 years, would have never launched this kind of police/public employee hunting program; i.e. he expressed serious safety concerns with the past culling program. Tom build a professional police organization in Mt. Lebanon that was embraced, respected, and trusted by the residents. I don't know what Chief Coleman McDonough is thinking, but I think he is making a very serious mistake; i.e. having police officers hunting in our parks and neighborhoods could destroy the trust and respect that has been built up over the past 30 years with the residents of Mt. Lebanon. This could cause irreparable damage.
So if a police officer, fireman, or public works employee shoots a deer that then runs into traffic causing a crash, injury, and/or death, who will investigate this accident and who is liable? The Mt. Lebanon police force will have a conflict of interest. Whitetail Managment Associates, the bow hunting group that Mt. Lebanon was considering using, requires each hunter to carry a $1 million liability insurance policy. So what type of insurance policy will these police and public employees be required to have, and who is going to be liable and responsible for any damages, injuries, or possible deaths? If you have a police officer-hunter trespassing on your property to kill a wounded deer, who do you call to have him stopped and arrested - the Bethel Police? If a police officer breaks the hunting laws, i.e. safety zones, etc., will he turn himself in? If the police are the hunters, who do we call to enforce safety violations, and can we expect enforcement of the law, when there will be a serious conflict of interest?
Is sounds like this hunting program is Chief McDonough's idea, and that he is stepping up to manage it, which begs the question, what experience does he have launching and managing a hunting program in a densely populated and developed community like Mt. Lebanon?
Will these police officers and public employees be hunting during working hours on taxpayer dollars, or on their own time? If they will be hunting during working hours, who will be doing their work? Will this be part of their new job descriptions? What happens if they get hurt hunting, or they injure someone else?
Who will certify the expertise of these hunter-police and employees?
Who will oversee and be responsible for this hunting program?
Whitetail Mgt Associates requires their hunters to number all arrows so that they can account for missed shots or lost arrows, i.e. lost arrows can become lethal razor sharp booby traps for children playing in the parks or their own backyard in the spring. Of course, no one enforces this anyway, because with a 50% wounding rate those arrows sticking in deer can travel throughout Mt. Lebanon and fall out anywhere.
I truly don't understand the urgency that Chief McDonough seems to have in launching this hunting program, which raises so many safety, liability, and conflict of interest concerns, and which could irreparably damage the trusting relationship with the residents of Mt. Lebanon. This entire plan seems seriously misguided, and an accident waiting to happen.
The commissioners come up with these hare-brained schemes (like the HR charter ad change) because the can't " walk and chew gum at the same time."
But he's an idea.
Why should we pay anybody to cull deer?
Every hunter I ever talked to would love to bag more than one deer in a season! These guys and gals that are into this stuff-- dressing in camoflouge, getting out in the open air, shooting things-- pay the game commission millions of dollars for the priviledge.
SO WHY ARE OUR DEER-HUNTING POLICE OFFICERS, FIREMAN AND PW PEOPLE THE ONLY ONES ALLOWED TO GET IN ON THE "FUN" AND GET PAID TO DO IT?
So here's the idea—
Issue MTL deer hunting tags for a fee which goes towards paying for sports shit.
Any archery capable MTL resident can pay $30 to take the Robin Hood skills test. Hit three bullseye from 35 yds and they become qualified to shoot deer on the golf course or at McNeilly and Twins Hills Park. We can't let just any fool launching arrows everywhere.
Then once they qualify, they buy a $100 MTL hunting license which allows them to kill as many deer as their little hearts can desire on a selected weekend. Say each weekend we issue 10 license-- can't have the woods and course crammed with hundreds of hunters at one time!
Everybody wins! Linfante gets rid of her deer. Hunters are happy. Taxpayers save $80,000 AND the sports people get private money to pay for their "crown jewel" turf facilities.
Why should we PAY employees to hunt in the Queen's forest when there are "peasants" out there that would pay for the "priviledge?"
After all if the PA Game Commission can charge people to hunt, why can't we charge people to shoot our deer on our public land in our little Home Rule Community?
- Will Stutely
4:51 am - That's why I wondered if this was a fake undertaking to satisfy the game commission. What proof of a deer cull on the golf course is necessary for the game commission to award a permit? Fairfax Co has deer management program that involves archery and let's just say it a) doesn't involve local police, fire and public works and b) has very specific, detailed regulations, qualifications, standards, etc.
I already don't trust the police if they think they can handle this undertaking when they have already told the public repeatedly that they are "understaffed" especially in the "traffic division", where we do actually have countless crashes.
I didn't realize that wounding rates were so high. If that's so, I wonder if the commissioners have created a PR nightmare for themselves. Now that everyone has a cell phone that also takes HD photos and videos, how long will it be before angry and frightened residents start sharing on social media their all-too-vivid encounters with wounded deer?
It seems that the commissioners may have a hard time escaping the graphic consequences of their vote. These days, if you shoot your albatross, cell phones and social media can make you wear it.
"Who will police the police?"
Here is how it may go down, 4:51 AM. People will call 911 and it will be recorded on the already bogus* "Mt. Lebanon Police Department Deer Incident Report." The media will cite those numbers, adding to the Queen's credibility.
*I did not report a deer incident EVER, let alone on 8/2/14!
Elaine
Correction: I did not report a deer incident EVER, let alone on 8/20/14!
Elaine
The muni is claiming this will not cost taxpayers anything, like the two prior culls performed by outsiders for fee - BS !! The employee's will receive overtime pay at 1.5 x regular scale, and this will count towards their retirement as well. Nice try to dupe taxpayers once again, sleazebags !
The Most Effective Solution
The main problem is the smorgasbord of irresistible flowers and plants that residents grow in their yards, and that Mt. Lebanon plants in its 30+ flower islands throughout the community. It's this abundant food resource that is the major attractant causing deer to cross the roads (car-deer collisions) to come into Mt. Lebanon to browse (eating flower complaints). Mt. Lebanon has to reach out to its residents and ask for their help; hold deer proofing seminars, and show the residents how they can have beautiful gardens and landscapes by planting deer resistant plants and flowers, and using repellents and other effective deterrents. In addition, Mt. Lebanon, should also track deer crossing hot spots and put up effective flashing deer crossing warning signs, and educate residents not to veer if they see a deer. These are all proven recommendations that Laura Simon, The Humane Society of the United States' (HSUS) wildlife biologist and deer expert has made repeatedly, but which have been ignored and not implemented.
Below is a brief summary that HSUS' wildlife biologist made in a letter to the Mt. Lebanon Commission on November 8, 2011:
"On behalf of The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) and our 638,000 Pennsylvania members and supporters, I am writing to voice our firm opposition to the proposed plan to allow hunting or deer culling (bait and shoot) as a means of reducing deer-related conflicts. Arbitrarily plucking deer out of the environment will not achieve the Township’s goals. Instead, this misguided plan is likely to expose the public to increased safety risks and the trauma of seeing wounded deer. There are far better ways to resolve this (and any other) ―deer problem."
- Holding deer-proofing seminars
- Reaching out and asking residents to plant deer resistant flowers and ornamentals
- Planting deer resistant flowers in the 30+ flower islands throughout the community
- Identifying deer crossing hot-spots and putting up electric/flashing deer warning signs
- Lowering the speed limit
- Implementing a drivers education program for residents
- Educating residents on deer
- Expanding the fence ordinances
- Implementing roadside habitat modification to increase visibility
Laura Simon gave an example where Rochester Hills decreased car-deer collisions by 25% through a resident education program, and the strategic placement of deer warning signs. This program only costs $5,000. Why does Mt. Lebanon ignore these proven safe and inexpensive solutions?
Mt. Lebanon should implement these proven solutions recommended by HSUS' wildlife bioloist, and give them a chance before considering any next step alternative strategy. The only safe, effective, and humane next step strategy for a community as densely populated and developed as Mt. Lebanon is a deer contraception or sterilization program.
Allen Rutberg Ph.D., Tufts Center for Animals and Public Policy, and a leading deer contraception scientist wrote that, "suburban deer populations have been stabilized and reduced over time by 35-50% ... The most dramatic reduction so far ... has been associated with a population reduction of 44% in five years." These studies are published in peer reviewed scientific journals. A deer sterilization program should result in a even more dramatic population reduction, because sterilization is 100% effective. Tony DeNicola, President of White Buffalo, estimated a 10 - 20% annual population reduction during Mt. Lebanon's deer forum.
Mt. Lebanon markets itself as a "Community with Character" (see website). So if Mt. Lebanon could implement a totally safe and humane deer management program, why wouldn't it?
Safety Zones?
The Pennsylvania Game Commission's (PGC) "safety zone" regulations are totally arbitrary, and have nothing to do with safety or protecting the public. State law provides a "safety zone" restricting firearm hunting within 150 yards of occupied buildings, and 50 yards for archery hunting. The archery safety zone was changed from 150 yards to 50 yards a few years ago to open up more hunting opportunities for its hunter constituents, but remains 150 yards if in proximity to schools or day care centers. However, this 150 yard expanded safety zone for archery in proximity to schools or day care centers doesn't apply to back yards with children playing. These "safety zone" regulations are totally inadequate to protect the safety of the public. The maximum range for a compound bow is 595 yards, and an extreme cam compound bow 931yards. The maximum range for a .223 rifle with 55 grain bullets (typical rifle and ammo used for suburban deer culls) is 2.2 miles, and a .3006 rifle (typical deer hunting rifle) even greater. So how can "safety zones" of 150 yards and 50 yards protect the public, especially in a densely populated and developed community like Mt. Lebanon?
My understanding, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, that back in 2006/07 and 2007/08, Mt. Lebanon applied for a special permit that overrode all state regulated safety zones, which allowed contractors to shoot high powered rifles on Mt. Lebanon owned property with absolutely no safety zones to protect the public. In addition, if a resident signed up for the program, they could allow shooters to bait and shoot deer in their yards, without even notifying their surrounding neighbors. I know this sounds difficult to believe and many might think insane, but I believe I'm presenting that program accurately. Can you imagine living next store or behind a resident that is allowing a contractor to shoot a high powered rifle on their property, assuming that you are even informed, and have no rights or way to protect your family from this serious safety threat, but have to live in fear in your own home, and afraid to go outside or take your dog out on your property? This program was cancelled because of public safety concerns. As I understand, one commissioner was pushing to implement this same dangerous program this year and ongoing on an annual basis, and was extremely disappointed when the majority of the Commission did not vote to approve it, because of the serious public safety concerns.
I know one young woman with Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), that pleaded with the Commission not to allow men with lethal weapons into the community. Her pleas fell on deaf ears. I know of two other residents that suffer from PTSD that are also beyond anxious with this newly approved deer killing program.
I've stood in the middle of most of Mt. Lebanon's parks, and can see the homes surrounding these parks from all points within the parks. Kids and teenagers are constantly crossing through these parks as short cuts day and night, and there is no way to adequately shut these parks down. There is no safe place to shoot lethal weapons in Mt. Lebanon. It's an accident waiting to happen.
IMO, families should have a legal right to feel safe from the threat of lethal weapons in their home, yard, neighborhood, parks, and community.
I'm crying right now, 6:31 AM, as I am reading your comment. Thank you for submitting this as well as the other comments you have submitted.
Elaine
PETA sells a drone. Do you think catching inept bowhunters at the golf course on video and sharing the footage online and with media could stop the continued cull?
Perhaps we need to follow the lead of our friends in Dormont and start showing up at public meetings in surrounding communities, most especially Castle Shannon. They need to know what's going on. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to know their residents might be at risk all because a few people in Lebo whined about their flowers. That'll go over real well. What arrogance on the part of our "leaders.
Here's my problem with the current plan to use police, fire and PW employees to cull deer.
PW can barely do the jobs they're well compensated to do now as evidenced by opinions of pro and anti-turfers alike and they're inability to adhere to something as simple as picking dead leaves on schedule.
Think I'm wrong? Consider the comment made by the F-bombing 5:14 under another topic. " My kids have played on Wildcat, Dixon, Middle, Bird, Brafferton, Mellon, Jefferson, Foster, Lincoln. The field conditions suck!"
So now we're going to PAY these PW employees to do something they obviously enjoy doing on their own time. (How else do they become proficient archer/hunters?)
Obvisously Linfante and pals are intent on going through with this latest snafu, so let's demand some accountability. They do after all work for us.
Let's demand that each archer carry only engraved or permanently marked arrows that identify them!
That way, if we find a stray arrow sticking into something on our property - like our kids or through the jaw of a deer like the one pictured earlier on this blog - we'll know immediately who made the terrible shot and whom to prosecute.
If these people are so confident of their ability to hit their intended target, they should have no problem owning up to it by clearly marking their arrows.
- Will Stutely
According to PA law we could all send emails to the commissioners telling them our property is off-limits to the deer hunters and that we will consider any trespass to hunt or pick-up a shot deer a criminal offense and expect the trepasser to be prosected to the full extent of the law. An email to the commissioners should satisfy Items (i) and (ii).
http://reference.pafoa.org/statutes/PA/18/II/C/35/3503/criminal-trespass/
"
(b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention at each entrance of school grounds that visitors are prohibited without authorization from a designated school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave school grounds as communicated by a school, center or program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement officer."
- Will Stutely
I was so heartened to read all of your responses. It's so comforting to know that there are residents in our community that realize that humans don't have a monopoly on this earth.
But I would like to remind this community of the other animal slaughter that is going on every day. Animal control regularly sets inhumane rat traps, be they mechanical or poison, throughout our community. Is there ever a committee meeting about this? Never! Any discussion? No! Our callousness is an outrage. In fact, you can just call a number and request that our government install "rodent control." It's disgusting: http://www.mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?NID=160
I saw some talk in here about how the threat of Lyme disease is overstated. Let me tell you, that's nothing compared to the bogus case made about rabies. Leave our rats alone. They and deer both have roughly 20 million neurons, which is a rough marker of intelligence. Hold our leaders to account!
Love the sarcasm 10:47, but I don't remember any Black Plagues caused by deer.
http://facts.randomhistory.com/2009/06/09_black-death.html
"Most experts agree that the plague was caused by Yersinia pestis (or Y. pestis), a bacillus carried by fleas that live primarily on rats and other rodents that were common in medieval dwellings."
- Will Stutely
Will Stutely, I was not being sarcastic. Funny that you claim rats have killed so many humans. Have you considered how many rats have been killed by humans? I'd say, that whatever harm rats inflicted upon us has been inflicted upon rats one thousand times over.
You need to check your privilege. I thought this was a safe community, one that treated animals with compassion, not vilification. Maybe I'm wrong.
I emailed the commission, Steve Feller, Phil Weis, and Tom Kelley today with my personal reasons for wanting them to stop the deer culling. I heard nothing back. I imagine that Kristen went to town with her usual caustic remarks about me. I will not be filing a RTK, as she always expects me to do. I'm sure Kristen will be disappointed, but I am not playing that game with her. She seems to get too much pleasure attacking me when I speak against the "Queen's cull."
Elaine
The Home Rule Charter states:
102.5 No person shall carry firearms or shoot at or throw stones at or set snares for wildlife.
Elaine
Won't they need an ordinance that permits this activity on the golf course and McNeilly? Why do we have a solicitor when no undertaking seems to abide by the home rule charter?
1:48, you got it wrong... I never wrote that rats killed or are killing humans. Check my post again.
You've also got it wrong that this is a compassionate community.
We have a commission president that is gung ho to exterminate several hundred deer obstentiously to prevent 1 or 2 minor vehicle accidents per year. Another residents wants deer wiped out because it scares her and her dogs.
Can you imagine what affect rats running wild would have on them?
Corection.
ostensibly
-WS
The Issue of Animal Cruelty
While much of the opposition to a deer killing program in Mt. Lebanon is focused on the safety issues, and resident concerns that the use of lethal weapons threatens their families, for others there is also the moral issue of animal cruelty.
Some of the more disturbing issues for me personally are: Reading the culling reports counting the nearly full formed fetus fawns that were cut out of their mother's wombs, and the juveniles killed. There's something immoral and obscene to slaughter pregnant doe, and her fawns. Deer live in small family units, and there are strong loving bonds between the doe and her fawns. When the matriarch doe is killed watching the behavior of her orphaned fawns is heartbreaking, and without their mom to show them how to survive their first winter or cross roads, the fawns will likely starve or get hit by a car. Seeing pictures of wounded deer with arrows through their faces that will be roaming and dying in residents yards. Watching the deer smash into the sides of the clover trap in total panic and fear, often breaking their legs and necks, trying to escape. Hearing the struggling and thrashing deer cry out in fear and pain in the net-and-bolt videos when the contractor shoots a 4 inch bolt into their head and face multiple times. All of this killing and suffering for some tulips. You can watch these videos on this blog site.
Below is a link to, "An Open Letter to the Bishops on Hunting", by Rev. Professor Andrew Linzey, a member of the Faculty of Theology at the University of Oxford. I included a few quotes below. http://www.thewitness.org/agw/linzey120403.html
There is now ample scientific evidence in peer reviewed journals that all mammals experience stress, terror, shock, anxiety, fear, trauma, foreboding, as well as physical pain. Given this knowledge, it is simply illogical not to extend the same basic protection against the deliberate infliction of suffering to animals, which we ourselves enjoy. [Deer are sentient animals just like the dogs we love and consider members of our family, and who are protected by animal cruelty laws.]
Humans are moral agents with the freedom to make moral decisions. That consideration is of central relevance to the debate about hunting. What is so objectionable is that moral beings, who should know better, choose to engage in an activity that results in cruelty. There is all the difference in the world between the accidental or instinctual infliction of harm by non-moral things or agents, and the volitional infliction of suffering by moral agents. In short: it is the difference between an 'accident', or a 'misfortune', and a morally evil act.
It is crucial to understand why the taking of pleasure in the infliction of suffering is so morally deplorable. It may be morally permissible to smack a child when performed with the intention of rectifying regressive behavior. But all should properly recoil at parents who enjoy this act. The taking of pleasure renders what might, conceivably, be a morally licit act into one that is disturbed, even depraved.
There are good theological grounds for regarding such acts as intrinsically objectionable. Human beings are made in the "image of God" and given "dominion" over animals. It is true that, in the past, both notions have been used to defend an exploitative attitude toward animals, but there are almost no scholars today who endorse that implication. Rather, we are to act as God's deputies -- made in the image of God who is holy, loving and just, and uniquely commissioned to care for creation as God cares. To the question, "Why should we care for animals?" there is only one biblical answer: "We are given that duty of care." From this standpoint, the deliberate infliction of suffering on "lesser creatures" who are wholly in our power, and who are, strictly speaking, morally innocent, is a gross betrayal of our God-given responsibility.
Wounded Deer Incident in Upper St. Clair
On Wednesday October 3, 2001, at approximately 6:20 PM, I was driving on McMillan Road when I encountered an injured deer at the side of the road. The animal was down, was thrashing with its front legs, and was foaming at the mouth. It was unable to move its hindquarters, and was in great distress.
Another motorist stopped at the scene shortly after I did. When he approached the deer, he discovered a wound in the deer’s hindquarters, very near the spine. The deer had not been hit by a car, as I originally assumed, but had been the victim of a very poor shot.
When I looked up the hillside above where the deer lay, I saw a hunter, dressed in full camouflage gear, including black face paint! The hunter admitted that he shot the deer. He stated that he was from White Tail Management and that he had permission from the property owner to hunt on this property.
Several things about this incident were disturbing to me:
1. It was very upsetting to witness the cruelty of bow hunting where the animal suffers needlessly. As explained later by the Assistant Police Chief, this is a 2-step process. First the animal is "wounded" and it runs away. Then the hunter tracks the animal, and "dispatches" it.
2. The position of this deer’s wound shows that not all White Tail Management hunters are good shots. The numerous reports of wounded, mutilated deer in Upper St. Clair and other communities attest to this.
3. After this deer had been wounded, it slid down the embankment onto McMillan Road. (I could see the slide marks in the dirt on the hillside.) This created a traffic hazard caused not by the deer, but by the hunter.
4. No one polices the hunting activity. Did this hunter observe the 50-yard rule? Where did the hunter stand when he fired his weapon? Only the hunter and the deer know for sure – the hunter’s not talking, and the deer can’t.
5. Hunting is not appropriate in residential areas and it is unnerving to see armed men in battle fatigues prowling our neighborhoods. Furthermore, who is to know if these men are from White Tail Management or are poachers?
I'm very concerned that my township is succumbing to the wishes of White Tail Management and becoming a private game land for a hunting club. If there is hunting in the parks, residents are being deprived of safe use of those parks. If there is hunting on private property without widespread public knowledge, residents are being put in danger. I do not agree with the argument made frequently by the commissioners, that these hunters are safe. And I do not agree with the argument that just because a species has become inconvenient it is acceptable to kill it.
12:52 and others: Do not read this cmoent is you are sensitive to violence:
This 2 step approach is horrific. I asked a vey highly skilled archer about MtL's plan for employing amateur archers in this deer cull. He said it was essential that the bow penetrate the heart and or lungs for a "clean kill". Otherwise, the animal will bleed out, or as stated by 12:52, become disabled and a hazard to traffic or a nightmare to an unintended observer.
I think MTL residents should request assistance from PETA locally.
Is the deer cull a PAID perk for union members?
If we don't use them in the future will the unions file a past practice grievance for more pay for no work?
I read another trib article indicating that MTL would be helped with this archery by a former president of Whitetail Specialists. So I found a WS manual for archery in county parks. They instruct their archers to "leave the area" if a wounded, but not dead, deer ventures into a space where non-hunters can observe them. Then, the hunter shoulds call the police.
So there u have it folks: this is why a deer with an arrow in its body can be observed in residential areas in the South Hills. Because super ethical and conscientious Whitetail Specialists tells it's not so talented hunters to abandon the suffering animal they have failed to kill.
Whitetail Management Associates Rules and Regulations
Elaine
Reward offered in arrow shooting of Campbellsport girl Aryanna Schneeberg
(see CT scan of arrow penetrating 7 yr. old girls body)
http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20120530/OSH0101/305300040/Reward-offered-arrow-shooting-Campbellsport-girl-Aryanna-Schneeberg?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cp
MPBELLSPORT, Wis., May 23 (UPI) -- Authorities in Wisconsin have offered a $500 reward for information leading to the person who shot an arrow that struck a 7-year-old girl, hospitalizing her.
Aryanna Schneeberg was outside of her Campbellsport home playing with a doll and buggy Sunday when she was shot in the back by an arrow. She underwent 2 1/2 hours of surgery at Children's Hospital of Wisconsin to repair damage to her left lung, spleen, stomach, diaphragm and liver.
Doctors upgraded Aryanna's condition to fair Tuesday, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported Wednesday.
"Had we changed the trajectory of that arrow by as little as 2 centimeters this could have been a very bad outcome," said Dr. John Densmore of Children's Hospital.
Investigators don't believe Aryanna was the intended target of the arrow, but are searching for the person who shot it. Police confiscated a bow and arrow set from a man who lives near the Schneebergs' home, WTMJ-AM, Milwaukee, reported.
"She's mad. She wants to know why this happened to her when she didn't do anything wrong," the girl's mother, Laura Beth Schneeberg said.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/05/23/Girl-7-shot-with-arrow-reward-offered/UPI-67101337820159/#ixzz3KXTkZP3j
Dog is wounded by bow and arrow
(see heartbreaking picture of dog stitched up at link below. )
http://www.wvnstv.com/story/27452524/dog-is-wounded-by-bow-and-arrow
Posted: Nov 21, 2014 4:06 PM EST
Updated: Nov 28, 2014
After a woman comes home to find her beloved pet laying in the yard with an open wound, we're looking into the dangers your pet faces this hunting season.
Brenda Hodge found her dog, Faith, with a puncture in her side. When Hodge took Faith to the vet they confirmed that the dog had been shot with a bow and arrow. The arrow went into her chest cavity, broke a rib, and punctured a lung. The owner told 59News that Faith actually died on the operating table and they revived her, "she made it and she was breathing easier, but it was very very upsetting. Her and I are very close. She doesn't take up to very many, she is a lot of company and she's glad to see me when I get home, so it was very traumatizing."
Hodge went on to tell me that she will never understand how someone could make this mistake, "A bow and arrow. I just don't understand how they even thought she was a deer, if people are hunting they should make sure of what they are hunting for."
James Long, a state trooper who is also a member of the Beckley Gun, says hunters may not realize the price they could pay for shooting anything other than what's in season, "they could be charged with felonies for animal cruelty. That's happened quite a bit in the past few years. It's very possible that if you're not just simply hunting with a valid license and someone's dog you could end up in prison."
Hodge realizes that she will probably never know who did this, but hopes that her story can distill the importance of being 100% sure of what you are shooting in other hunters.
Cat miraculously survives being shot in face with arrow
(see unbelievable picture at link. Double click to enlarge pic to see.)
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/animals/2014/10/cat-miraculously-survives-being-shot-in-face-with-arrow/#27686101
Posted on October 20, 2014 | BY CATHY M. ROSENTHAL
This weekend, the Bandera County sheriff’s department picked up a white cat who had been shot in the face with an arrow. The cat had been found along a dirt road in Pipe Creek, Texas. Deputies are asking for help in finding out who shot this cat, according to a story in the Bandera Bulletin.
“The arrow went into his face next to his nose, then through his neck, and out his back,” said Sandee Bowman, director of the Animal Welfare Society of Bandera County (AWSBC). “Doctors can’t believe the arrow didn’t hit his spine. It’s a miracle he survived.”
The cat was wearing a collar, but had no identification, so he likely belonged to somebody in the area.
“It’s bow and arrow season and it worries me that we’re going to see more of this happening,” said Bowman. “Every year, we get calls on deer and other animals that are running around with arrows in them. It just makes me ill.”
This is the first domestic animal that AWSBC has been called on to help with an arrow injury.
He has yet to be named, but this cat already is recovering, thanks to the Bandera sheriff’s department and several veterinary clinics.
Veterinarians at Bandera Veterinary Clinic removed the arrow and then called Bowman to see if AWSBC could take the cat. AWSBC is now fostering the cat until he’s fully recovered. Leon Valley Veterinary Hospital is providing the rest of the cat’s care.
“It’s a small community with only so many hunters who use a professional bow,” said Bowman. “So someone likely knows who did this to this cat. We hope someone comes forward with information.”
N.J. biologists remove arrow from deer's head
(See picture of fawn with arrow through her head at link below. Miracle she survived? Note - The Pa Game Commission would have killed the fawn. They do not rescue fawns or deer.)
http://www.northjersey.com/news/n-j-biologists-remove-arrow-from-deer-s-head-1.690076
NOVEMBER 10, 2013, 11:45 AM
ASSOCIATED PRESS ROCKAWAY TOWNSHIP — New Jersey wildlife officials have successfully removed a hunter's arrow from a young deer's head and released the animal into the wild.
A spokesman for the Department of Environmental Protection says biologists were able to tranquilize the 5-month old male deer on Saturday evening in Rockaway Township. They removed an arrow that had pierced completely through the animal's head.
The biologists who did the procedure say the arrow had not damaged any major arteries or organs and the deer's prognosis for survival is excellent.
The animal was treated with preventive antibiotics and released back into the woods.
DEP Spokesman Larry Hajna says the arrow removal was performed at a wooded private property in Morris County where the deer had been spotted several times over the past week.
I can't bring myself to look at the photos that are being submitted.
The decision makers (our commissioners) have the perfect setup. It only takes three votes in this town to get just about anything passed. The commission majority will not acknowledge emails. Some don't even open their emails. Our commissioners tend to exaggerate and seldom back up their statements with facts. They claim they don't read this blog. (We know that's not true.) The only way to get their attention is to go to the meeting and speak during Citizen Comments. Make it public. Go to the commission meeting on December 9. Please don't count on me to do this. I won't be there. I can't handle any discussions about killing deer. I experienced it first hand. I'm begging you, kind Lebo Citizen readers, if you are against lethal methods of deer management, please tell the full commission.
Elaine
Elaine:
How is this possible? Our Home Rule Charter forbids it.
A Lebocitizens reader who loves to watch wildlife in his back yard
I don't know what to tell you, 6:54 AM. When the "lone wolf" hounds the commission long enough, anything is possible. Does it really matter what the Home Rule Charter says?
Elaine
Now you know 6:54 why the recent revisions we voted on were a joke.
Did anyone care if the Charter was gender neutral or where municipal ads appear.
The real problem with the charter is that it contains no realistic provisions for residents to question actions committed by our elected officials.
They can lie, defy ordinances and change directions such as we've seen on the turf installation and deer cull and there are no checks to stop them short of a very expensive legal process.
They'll never change that.
- WS
Don't know if most are aware, there were some revisions made to the municipal park rules at the last commission meeting. Those changes can be found at
http://www.mtlebanon.org/documentcenter/view/10630
Nick M.
OMG, Nick! I was not aware of this. Thank you for sharing this. I made it into a clickable link.
Ordinance Amending Municipal Park Rules
It now reads that guns can be used in municipal parks, but not slingshots. Firearms can be carried in municipal parks.
ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME?
Elaine
And that would seemingly apply to anyone, resident or nonresident, adult or minor, not just cops, firemen and public works employees. Sure looks like we're a gettin' ready for a 100% firearms cull where everyone can participate. Kristen must be overjoyed. The next Ultra Party will be beer & venison in Uptown, which will excite Silverman.
Whoever created this amended ordinance was drunk or smokin' something. Slingshots, air guns and "beanie" whatever the hell that is, remain prohibited. How about pea shooters, paint ball guns and the like ?
From the agenda:
Introduction of Ordinance (Bill No. 21-14) amending municipal park rules. - introduced
A new state law will take effect in January, known as Act 192. Mt. Lebanon is modifying its
recreation rules to comply with the state law.
Recommended Action: Introduce Ordinance (Bill No. 21-14).
When is the public hearing?
Yet, the commissioners are talking about making the parks smoke free?
Elaine
Google PA Act 192. You'll find that PA towns are suing the state. Here in Mt. Lebanon, we're wimping out and complying.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/11/10/pennsylvania-towns-sue-over-state-legislation-on-gun-control-measures/
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2014/11/new_state_law_exposes_communit.html
Elaine
From doing some research, I believe the ordinance was changed to coincide with state and federal laws regarding lawful carry of firearms.
Technically Mt. Lebanon could have been sued if an individual was lawfully carrying a firearm in a municipal park. State and federal laws trump municipal laws, as you probably already know.
From http://tinyurl.com/nubfnp7
"We're trying as a state to avoid these patchwork municipalities doing whatever they want to do based on their situations," said Boscola, who voted in favor of the law. "Those municipalities that passed ordinances already knew they were going over state law and they did it anyway."
Nick M.
I was incorrect. It is NOT the Home Rule Charter, as I wrote here:
The Home Rule Charter states:
102.5 No person shall carry firearms or shoot at or throw stones at or set snares for wildlife.
Elaine
November 28, 2014 at 11:27 PM
It is the Mt. Lebanon Code which can be changed without a referendum.
Elaine
Municipalities have to pay attorney fees, court costs, etc., if sued by individual adversely affected by gun laws in township. Anonymous.
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/HA/public/HaCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&syear=2013&sind=0&body=H&type=B&bn=1243&pn=3194&ayear=2013&an=07845&aType=DAY&mobile_choice=suppress
Please post the ordinance... what does it say? Or how exactly are the rules regarding firearms being changed in our parks? I can't find the write up...
Nick M. posted it at 3:46 PM and I added a clickable link at 4:50 PM.
Elaine
Sorry Elaine & Nick - I was a little shaken up reading that FIREARMS ARE GOING TO BE OK in the parks. Does this mean a hunter with a permit during hunting season can hunt there too?
Park ordinance..see 51:30 to 52:30 of the last discussion session.
Commissioner Linfante and friends are still pushing and hoping to bring contractors with high powered rifles to shoot in Mt. Lebanon's parks, neighborhoods, and back yards, and likely explains why the ordinances has been changed allowing guns to be used in municipal parks. Below are three articles on rifle hunting accidents that should make residents concerns.
WPXI video report: "Family says newborn hit by stray hunter's bullet will be blind"
(check link below to see heartbreaking picture of 5 day old baby who was shot in head/eye.)
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/aunt-baby-hit-hunters-stray-bullet-he-will-be-blin/nhYr8/
Pittsburgh - On Tuesday night, Channel 11 spoke with the great-aunt of a newborn baby hit by a hunter’s stray bullet in Indiana County.
Shayne Iverson was just 5 days old when he was hit by the bullet in his Saltsburg home as he was being cradled by his father.
“That was the worst phone call I ever got in my life,” said the baby’s great-aunt, Beth Sinclair.
Doctors said the bullet went through his head and came out his eye socket.
“He will be blind. His eye actually saved his life because the bullet hit that instead of his brain,” said Sinclair.
Shayne is in critical condition. He’s stable but will have a very long road ahead.
“They’re watching the swelling right now on his brain,” said Sinclair.
The Shayne Iverson Fund has been set up to help. Donations can be made at any S&T Bank.
ABC NEWS
Expectant Mom Recovering From Stray Hunting Bullet
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=310814
Loved ones of a pregnant woman injured in a shooting, apparently by a hunter's stray bullet, believe she is lucky to be alive, but they want new hunting regulations that will give greater protection to suburban homes and businesses.
Casey Burns, 18, remains hospitalized as she recovers from a gunshot wound to the head. She was shot while sitting in her car outside her North Whitehall Township, Pa., home on Nov. 30. Burns, who is seven months pregnant, was preparing to follow her fiancé to his mother's house at the time.
"When I looked through and saw the hole in the window, I opened the door and saw her bleeding," Robbie Katner, Burns' fiancé, told ABC News' "Good Morning America." "I took off my sweater and put it on her head to try and stop it [the bleeding] until the ambulance and everybody got there."
According to the International Hunter Education Association, hunters accidentally shoot more than 1,000 people in the United States and Canada every year. Authorities in Pennsylvania worry that more bystanders will be injured by hunters' stray bullets as more homes are built near wooded areas where hunting is common.
"We have had several incidents of people reporting that their houses have gotten struck by stray bullets," said Sgt. Andre Stevens of the Pennsylvania State Police.
Need for a New Common-Sense Hunting Law
Pennsylvania game laws require hunters to remain 150 yards away from occupied homes and businesses when they use firearms. However, Burns' relatives say lawmakers should consider requiring greater distances because bullets can travel farther than 150 yards.
"They [authorities] are telling us that it [the bullet that wounded Burns] came from the orchard nearby and these guns are actually capable of going anywhere from 800 yards to 1,000 yards," Allie Dickinson, Burns' mother, said on "Good Morning America." "To me, that seems like a common-sense thing, that if a gun [gunshot] can travel a mile, then you need at least a mile safety distance between the hunter and a person that's just an innocent bystander like my daughter."
Dickinson objects to suggestions that residents have to take extra precautions when they live near hunting areas.
"One of our state senators made the comment that we need to take extra precautions during hunting times," Dickinson said. "I'm sorry, but it is not my responsibility or my daughter's responsibility to take precautions when they [hunters] are hunting. This is our home. And what could she have done other than wear an entire bulletproof vest, bulletproof helmet and drive an armored car to prevent this from happening in her own home?"
Mother and Unborn Child Doing Well
Burns is recovering well, her family says, and her unborn baby is still healthy.
"The baby is doing very well," Katner said. "We couldn't ask for any more. As long as the baby is safe, and it is going to come out healthy like we originally planned, we will all be real [sic] happy."
Police have interviewed several hunters who were in the orchards near Burns' home at the time of the shooting but they still have not found the gunman. The Pennsylvania Game Commission is also investigating the shooting.
OFFICER'S ERRANT SHOT AT DEER UPSETS RESIDENTS
The Buffalo News (Buffalo, NY)
Byline: Thomas J. Dolan - NEWS NORTHTOWNS BUREAU
Three days after an errant shot fired from a nearby woods struck their home, a young Amherst couple are still shaken by the thought of what could have happened.
Amherst police say that one of their officers -- a marksman who is taking part in the town's bait and shoot program to control deer -- fired the round and that the shot ricocheted before hitting the house.
But that's not good enough for residents of San Fernando Lane, where the bullet landed in the second-floor guest room of a young family's home.
"In my opinion they should not have been anywhere this close to a house," said a woman who lives in the house struck by the bullet. She agreed to an interview Monday on the condition that her name and address not be published.
"When it happens, your instinctive reaction is to be outraged. We felt that at the time and still do," she said.
At about 10:30 a.m. Friday, her husband was working in a first-floor room of the house and the couple's son was staying home from grade school because of illness, she said.
The bullet blew a baseball size hole in their upstairs guest room window and lodged in a picture on the wall.
Amherst police came to the house, and they were "extremely cooperative and extremely sensitive and sympathetic" about the incident, she said, but she added that nobody should be shooting a weapon that close to a house.
Police told her the officer involved was several hundred yards away in the woods, aiming down at a deer from a platform when the round struck something and was diverted toward the houses on San Fernando Lane.
Over the weekend, her husband took a walk into the woods and said it was "not that far." "If there's a chance of a fluke, they shouldn't be there," the woman said.
According to the town's online map system, the woods are located between Casey and North French roads, covering an area about 1,000 yards long and about 600 yards wide at the midpoint. The map also shows there are houses on three sides of the woods, the
nearest of which are located about 300 yards or less from the center of the woods.
According to the woman, her neighbors are aware of the incident and they are "very interested in what's happening." As for her son, she said, it has been "difficult to explain" to him what happened.
Assistant Police Chief Ronald H. Hagleberger told Town Board members Monday that the bait and shoot program will remain suspended until the department concludes its noncriminal investigation of the incident in about three weeks.
Police were withholding the names of the officer who fired the round and the owners of the home that was struck.
"I don't want to have this unfortunate incident stop the program," Amherst Council Member William L. Kindel said, calling the incident "one in a million."
But Council Member Daniel J. Ward disagreed, saying the bait and shoot program is "an accident waiting to happen," because Amherst is not a rural community.
Program officials said they would continue nonlethal attempts to control deer herds during the suspension period.
Anonymous at 7:59 PM, Kristen had much to say about the accident involving the poor 5 day old baby boy.
Elaine
Just want it noted that PA is an open-carry state. Lebo's rules mean exactly squat. If they allow this hunt, they are begging for a lawsuit against the municipality not to mention opening the door for additional discussion regarding gun rights.
Here's the docket and petition for the lawsuit submitted by a group of legislators and mayors of Philly, Pgh, and Lancaster re: Act 192
https://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/AppellateCourtReport.ashx?docketNumber=585+MD+2014
https://www.scribd.com/doc/246130109/4/EXHIBITF
Legal services are being provided free of charge.
Mt Lebanon can submit a amicus brief to describe its experiences as a result of this legislation. I'm sure that's on top of the "to do" list at 710 Washington Road.
Very interesting, 12:54 AM! As I read it, Miller and Smith can join in, or is this another "local issue?"
Elaine
Wildlife Specialists, LLC Assessment - Objective or Biased?
Bias and content concerns with the Deer Management Options - Feasibility Assessment by Wildlife Specialists, LLC. In the past, conflict of interest issues were raised with the Commission paying the USDA Wildlife Services to do an assessment that they would be paid to implement. Of course, they would find a "deer problem", that they would be well paid to resolve. While Wildlife Specialists, LLC wasn't paid to make a recommendation that they would implement, there are serious concerns about their potential bias, and the content of their assessment.
Bias Concerns
Wildlife Specialists, LLC is a deer killing contractor, i.e. all of the deer population control services listed on their website are lethal. The president of Wildlife Specialists, Merlin Benner, had previously worked for the Pa Game Commission, whose history is one of only lethal deer management. Wildlife Specialists has not been involved in any non-lethal contraception or sterilization projects. A fair assumption is that they likely have never made an assessment recommendation that didn't include lethal deer management.
Content Conerns
Just to give a few examples of concerns:
- The assessment gives estimated reductions in car-deer collisions for non-lethal techniques which are totally subjective with no supporting data. They estimate that a deer feeding ban would reduce car-deer collisions by 2-5 (moderate impacts), using deer repellents would have 0 reductions, and landscape alternatives (planting deer resistant flowers and plants) would have 0-2 reductions (minimal impact). First, no one knows how many residents, if any, feed deer, so there is no data to base a car-deer collision reduction estimate. In addition, Laura Simon, The Humane Society of the United States' (HSUS), wildlife ecologist, repeated over and over, the main deer feeding source in Mt. Lebanon are the smorgasbord of irresistible plants and flowers in residents yards, and the 30+ flower garden islands. This smorgasbord of plants and flowers are like deer bate stations that attract deer into Mt. Lebanon, causing deer to cross the roads to get to this abundant food source. This is the main cause of deer-human conflicts and car-deer collisions in Mt. Lebanon, and Wildlife Specialists doesn't seem to understand or address this main problem at all in their assessment.
- Most of the information in their section on fertility control agents was inaccurate or incomplete, which is a red flag regarding their knowledge, experience, and competency, or intent in doing a comprehensive non-biased and objective feasibility assessment. Wildlife Specialists has not been involved in any contraception or sterilization projects, and they dismiss them as being ineffective.
- Of critical importance and completely missing was the specific assessment of the safety issues with shooting high powered rifles in the densely populated and developed community of Mt. Lebanon. Their primary recommendation was implementing a (bait and shoot) culling program using contractors shooting high powered rifles, but they made no assessment where it would be safe or even feasible to shoot .223-caliber rifles with 55-grain bullets (Maximum Range 3875 yard, 2.20 miles) in Mt. Lebanon.
So you can make your own judgement of Wildlife Specialists, LLC's objective analysis and non-biased status, and the content of their Feasability Assessment. If requested, I would be happy to present my review of their fertility control agents section.
Please do, 6:19 AM.
Elaine
Elaine
Perhaps you can enlighten me. I am confused by the change in the gun ordinance in parks. Why are they getting rid of references to guns? I thought this was a bow and arrow cull or even trap and bolt. Why in the world are the gun ordinances being altered?
On the plus side I will be forgoing the purchase of a remote control camera helicopter for my son this Christmas. How crazy is it the I will be able to carry and shoot guns in parks but won't be able to fly a remote control helicopter?
Feller needs to go. He allows and doesn't put a check to any of the crazy shenanigans done by the is commission.
Here is what I have been able to find out, 7:58 AM. Evidently, the NRA is behind all of this. The NRA hijacked the Republicans. 100% of the R's pushed this bill through the House and Senate. I see that Miller and Smith voted against this.
Act 192 goes into law next month. So what happens? To comply, Weis struck out all language pertaining to guns and firearms. What is left of this butchered ordinance is that your son can't use any remote control vehicle or slingshots. Is there a National Slingshot Association? Yes, that was sarcasm.
Elaine
OK thanks. So this is less to do with deer than it is with compliance with new state law. I feel better now...kind of.
9:15 AM, fortunately for Kristen, this has everything to do with deer.
This is where the troll comes in to say that my record is perfect. I'm always being on the wrong side of an issue.
Elaine
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