I did receive this from a Lebo Citizens reader:
Attached is a highly edited montage of discussion sessions of the 25th of November, 2013, and the 11th of February, 2014. It starts with Kristen's statement of 25 November saying that people might be surprised to learn that the ESB is "not necessarily" opposed to artificial turf, and segues into the rather spirited discussion of 11 February when Maria Joseph says the ESB most definitely is against artificial turf. I had to edit out a lot of "in between" comments in order to keep to the point, which had to do with the ESB's actual position on turf.
Like any news story covered by electronic media, a reporter must decide what material is germane to the subject upon which he or she is reporting. The 11 O'Clock news does not televise an entire school board meeting, but may take snippets of it that are relevant to an issue. That is what I did in this case. I focused on whether the public might misapprehend the ESB's position, given statements made by Commissioner Linfante. You can certainly decide whether it is useful to the discussion on the Blog.
Audio montage of November 25, 2013 and February 11, 2014 meetings
Thanks to all who are helping me with this.
62 comments:
The first woman's voice is Kelly Fraasch asking about the ESB and the PAB.
Recreation director David Donellan answered Kelly's question about the PAB. Kristen Linfante spoke after David about the ESB.
Maria Joseph had introduced herself after Kristen was speaking. Kristen interrupted Maria.
Dave Franklin added that it was on the ESB minutes and was discussed at the last 3 or 4 ESB meetings.
Kathy Hrabovsky, head of the ESB, entered the discussion and added some background during Matt Kluck's time on the ESB.
Elaine
Kristin has a bad habit of interrupting people when they are speaking.
Glad you were able to find the blog. I love your search words.
Elaine
Thanks, I needed that.
Elaine
There's plenty of money. There are eco-friendly options. The fields committee should simply accept the ESB's input and go w/it. Problem solved. This is an easy one.
11:42, if this is such an easy one and there is so much money why don't we...
• improve the Washington Road crosswalks immediately so no else gets hurt
• make the improvements at the golf course
• buy the tractor it needs
• improve Brafferton Field and maintain the others in tip top shape
• freeze pool pass fees
• pay off the McNeilly 'Park' bond early
• fix up Robb Hollow Park
• reduce millage rates to attract young homebuyers and new businesses
• reduce the stormwater fee, fix flooding problems
and last but not least get a jump on the street paving schedule. Remember, we floated a bond to do it a few years back.
If there is plenty of money and Lebomag proclaims there is plenty of salt---- why aren't our streets clear of snow this morning?
Dave, remember this from your "New Crown Jewel" presentation?
"Some vendors from 1/15/14 also sell organic fill turf, and none spoke highly of organic fill turf. Organic fill (coconut shells and cork) tends to float away. It freezes. There is a tendency for "stuff" to grow in it and would need a pesticide treatment. It also decomposes."
We would be paying for a product that you would be unhappy with. Then we would hear for the next 6 or 8 years how you need the toxic stuff, I mean, the regular artificial turf.
Are you and your buddies willing to kick in your non-municipal share of 25% of the cost of organic turf? By the way, organic turf is a misnomer. The only 100% organic turf is GRASS.
Elaine
Lots of information here: http://www.ehhi.org/turf/turf_comments.shtml
On a number of health and environmental issues.
Especially interesting is the article on LEED building that the school district administrators and Celli tried to ram through in the high school renovation.
Thank you, 9:30 AM. The photos show the pellets which are used to fill in the "blades of grass." It is the infill that would be organic, but the "blades of grass" and the backing are made of polyurethane and polyethylene. After a heavy rainstorm, the infill can float away, leaving the "blades of grass." It was explained at a SAB presentation that we are buying a carpet. It is this non organic "carpet" that Kristen failed to explain to the ESB.
Elaine
Elaine is right - the only 100% organic turf is GRASS! The argument that then we would need to use synthetic pesticides and fertilizers to maintain it is not true. There are plenty of organic options to get rid of bugs and weeds on the market now. Just take a look at all of the organic products for lawn care at Rolliers as one example.
David Brumfield is wrong about everyone supporting artificial turf. I live in the Sunset Hills area and most of my neighbors are not even aware of this plan to turf the fields.
11:42, care to direct us to this pot 'o gold.
Not fair to run in, tell people there is plenty of money, then run away!
The school district's looking for $6 million in donations, the municipal pool went way over budget.
If you know where the money is stashed you should tell us.
Your montage is eye-opening Elaine. This Blogger thinks Mrs. Linfante owes the ESB an apology, "to be clear."
Once again we have a comment submitted, this time by 11:42, that makes a claim that some agenda item should proceed because its simple and there is "plenty of money."
Now that's all well and good and if correct probably put a muzzle on the wingnuts in this debate over turf.
Unfortunately, 11:42 doesn't offer one shred of evidence to back up their claim of vast untapped money reserves.
11:42 doesn't understand that their unsubstantiated claims only fan the flames of discord in the community.
Claims don't assuage fears of higher taxes or that environmentally safe artificial turf is to be had with just a bigger check.
If you have the financial wherewithal to pay for 'safe' turf lay it on the table for all to see, 11:42.
We're look at it!
I'm betting also 11:42, community news source that Elaine is, she'll post it on her blog so that a wide range of residents can read it.
7:45 am I believe the muni received a grant for the Washington Road crosswalk, so now the $60K allotted for that improvement can go into "unassigned funds".
1:36 PM, it is hard to keep track who is saying what. Are you saying that there is $60,000 more available for turf?
Elaine
Have the flooding victims on Castle Shannon Blvd. gotten any financial help from the municipality? Or are we just going to pretend that never happened?
Elaine
From 1:36 pm - I am saying that I believe this may be one of the ways the unassigned funds are accumulated. The muni doesn't actually fund and act on capital projects, then the money is set aside for things like turf.
At the same time, improvements to community safety, for example, Road Safety Audit recommendations are labeled as expensive and tabled.
The folks who think money isn't an issue probably are being told that by their commissioners or SAB friends. But the other residents who have inquired about funding for non-turf projects are being told there isn't money. This is part of the deception.
1:36, you call that plenty of money?!!!
$60,000 isn't even 10% of the municipality's 'share' of the turfing project using rubber pellets.
Plus Elaine's right, don't the people that get flooded in those 100 year storms that seem to be occurring every couple of years get dibs on "unassigned" funds?
You probably think not since I suspect your home isn't one of the ones that gets flooded.
Aren't the crosswalk improvements suppose to cost around $160,000 and weren't they put on hold?
OK now we're on the same page since you explained your comment 1:36.
I totally agree with you @1:58.
I cannot wait until the Right To Know comes due on or before February 28. We'll see how many Ward 4 residents are for artificial turf. Castle Shannon Blvd. is part of Ward 4. I would love to see if Kristen received any emails from the ESB concerning "their position" on artificial turf. It is bad enough that we have an audio montage of her conflicting statements, what does she say in emails?
I wish we could have the commissioners take another vote, after the EPA warnings surfaced. We'd see how green these Democrats truly are. I won't be able to attend the commission meeting on Monday, or I would ask them that myself.
Elaine
The fields crowd will need money to replace the turf in a few years. They would be wise to befriend the environmental folks now. They will need all the friends they can get before going in front of commission and asking for what will probably be a million dollars by then.
Kristen lied about what she said originally. And in this audio she essentially says that she only had a two minute conversation about turf while on the ESB and that the ESB did not express opposition during those two minutes. She therefore ran to the commission and, when asked, suggested that the ESB was not opposed.
All based on what she says was a two minute conversation during the course of the entire year.
It is lie upon lie upon lie. She seems incapable of telling the truth on this one.
I guess her mother tried to teach her not to lie. I have provided audio files from April 2010. Nothing new here. Kristen gets away with it every time.
Elaine
I added a way to listen to the audio without having to download it. Just click on the red dot.
Elaine
I have had no success to play the others - this feature is user-friendly for old folks like me. I thank you.
You're welcome! I only get two hours of space for free, so I have to use it sparingly. Otherwise, I could make a montage of all the comments made by Dave Brumfield and Dave Franklin as to what the needs are of the sports groups. More fields. No, better fields. No, more fields. No, better fields...
Elaine
Oops! Did I cause their site to crash?
Elaine
Downtime
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We do apologize for any inconvenience caused by this, and will update here as soon as we know more information.
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If more fields, then develop Robb Hollow.
If better fields, then contract with turf management professionals.
If turfing two fields, then fewer resources for grass fields.
In sum, turfing = more problems.
Can't believe people haven't caught on yet!
Turfing isn't about kids— their health, their development or even fun— its about money, pure and simple.
If it were about the kids, the recent EPA warnings on turf would be enough to stop this project dead in its tracks. No, no, no, to hell with health risk and environmental implications, realtors need a show piece, a "crown jewel" to sell homes.
Its all about money and only about money.
Kids can and will have fun on their own. If they're interested in playing ball they'll find a way, find a vacant lot or mark off a street to get their games in.
They won't need sponsored shirts and the lure of after game snacks and year end victory parties (even though we don't keep score).
Oh, if artificial turf were the big "crown jewel" that attracts wealthy families, don't you wonder why the Dicks Sportsplex in Cranberry isn't carpeted wall-to-wall with the stuff?
Check out the Biz Times Wealthiest School Districts article again then tell me why turf is a sound investment for the community.
I find it interesting that Maria Joseph had political signs in her front yard supporting all of these Lebo democrats.
http://lebomag.com/12840/commissioners-column-kristen-linfante-2/
Guess it is OK to dig up cardon dioxide absorbing, oxygen producing vegetation and replacing it with environmental polluting and health hazardous rubber tire pellets and plastics.
Good lesson in being environmentally responsible for an 11-year old.
Could it possibly be that she was duped into believing they cared about the environment?
We were all duped. As I wrote before, "The new Comprehensive Plan was designed with very high standards for the municipality to uphold when it comes to environmental issues."
Where does Dave mention turf in this Almanac article?
Three in Mt. Lebanon Commissioners race
Yet, he promises to use the comprehensive plan as a report card for the commission. Sorry Dave, you failed the course.
Elaine
I wouldn't go so far as to say we all were duped since only something like 30% of registered voters actually voted.
A percentage were apathetic, busy or didn't perceive a diffence in the limited candidate choices to cast a ballot.
Then there were those that wrote in the 3 stooges, knowing full well that's what we'd end up with any way.
From that "Three in Mt. Lebanon Commissioners race" article--- "He [Silverman] said his background in business and working with different governmental boards gives him a good skill set to do the job of commissioner."
Did I miss the conversation where he suggested to the other commissioners that they should work with the Environmental Sustainibilty Board??????
Not liking the choices offered for commission I voted for Curly.
1:10 PM, those of us who wrote in the 3 Stooges was for the school board race, not for the commission race. Dave was running unopposed. He could have said anything he wanted and would have been reelected, no matter what. There was no commission race in three of the five wards.
It really doesn't matter who we vote for, does it? Kristen Linfante said that the three commissioners have spoken. They make the decisions, not us.
Elaine
Matt Kluck was still in office when he voted no for the turf. Steve Silverman had no say in the matter. Besides, it is a majority vote with Bendel, Linfante, and Brumfield pushing this through under the tutelage of Dave Franklin.
Elaine
Understand Silverman didn't vote for turf, but he is a current commissioner and is involved now.
When the turf was voted on it was assumed turf was relatively safe and we were lead to believe the ESB was on board with it.
We now know it isn't and the the ESB wasn't.
As a commissioner he can certainly speak up for working with boards now and in the future.
Otherwise lets dump 2 commissioner, save and their $7,000 pay if Linfante, Bendel and Brumfield are running things.
You have a point there, 3:06 PM. We'll see how many of those 1500 emails were sent to all five commissioners. My guess is that Linfante, Bendel and Brumfield got the bulk of them.
Elaine
I was going to contact some environmental groups for support. Scratch this one off the list. Penn Future
She co-authored Real Lebo with Kristen Linfante.
Elaine
It appears Mrs. Linfante's friends were duped. Or were they ?
Wow we have a PennFutures associate right in our midst and not a peep!
"We work hand-in-hand with local watershed groups, fishing organizations, land conservancies and landowners providing outreach, education and representation on various legal issues that affect their watersheds. We serve as a watchdog over the agencies that should be protecting our water resources and take action to guarantee that the laws are enforced. We provide workshops to local groups looking to safeguard rivers and streams, and offer our expertise and assistance to guarantee safe drinking water for all.
Pennsylvania's water problems come from a variety of sources, which means we must use a variety of approaches to solve those problems."
— PennFutures
"Water problems" like letting rubber tire pellets that the EPA won't even allow in landfills to be washed into our streams and rivers.
Interesting politics aren't they!
OK, here's the plan. Kristen's bestie holds the commission a.k.a. polluters accountable by taking legal action where necessary. Through their Breathe Easy, Stay Healthy campaign, they will help ensure that our children grow up healthy. That is what their website says, anyway.
Elaine
Is it time to take this National and get some attention focused on this issue? You have a School Board that lied about costs so it wouldn't have to face the voters. Only a moron now can't see how they left out items! You have missing parking ticket $$$. And now the turf garbage. All from democrats that pray to the alter of Global Warming. Mt Lebanon was an early signer to Agenda 21. If you haven't studied it yet read up on it.
How many realize that the Dave's are now talking about building an indoor football/soccer/lacrosse field? If they bully people to turf fields guess they can bully this through too. Elaine count me in when you get those emails!
3:25 AM, I sent an email to the commissioners asking about an indoor field. I will pass on what I hear. Perhaps this will also come out in my RTK, if it is granted.
Elaine
Lying to the ESB and to the commissioners about the ESB's position, no resistance from her Environment Advocate/friend, and no objection from her Environment Team member/Campaign Manager, who also signed Dave Franklin's turf petition, is very strange. Yet, she writes about the environmental issues. Does Kristen stand to gain something from this?
Elaine
They talked about and indoor field on the Rock Pile (where the dirts piled) in the preliminary high school options.
Gee now we'd have three expensive "crown jewels"— the HS athletic Taj Mahal, the environmental hazardous turf, and an indoor stadium. Maybe we can put a bid in for a future summer Olympics with the IOC.
I still haven't received a confirmation from the commission concerning the possibility of an indoor field. Even if I did hear, how could I believe the president, the vice president or former commission president? Even the Turf Task Force presenter claimed that artificial turf was on the last 3 or 4 ESB minutes, which is a lie.
I doubt I am going to get a straight answer. Another reason for that mother of all RTKs.
Elaine
I have been reading old Real Lebo posts. The Real Lebo blog was hosted by a real live environmental activist and a current Mt. Lebanon commissioner and former liaison to the Environmental Sustainability Board.
A couple of posts caught my attention, in light of the recent approval of toxic turf at Middle and Wildcat Fields.
The first one is Who Will Advocate for the Children??
Healthy, active children will be playing on toxic fields that you have voted for. Yes, who will advocate for the children, Kristen? You or your environmental advocate?
A second post Asbestos Anyone??? got me thinking.
Imagine subjecting children to harmful chemicals and carcinogens. That would be as bad as subjecting children to over 30 different contaminants found in artificial turf as documented by the EPA. Who will advocate for the children, Kristen? You or your environmental advocate?
Must we really contact your fellow blogger (wait, is the word "fellow" offensive?) for support through their "Breathe Easy, Stay Healthy campaign" or will her group come to aid the ESB in regard to their statement which includes "environmental concerns have to do with storm water runoff from artificial turf which has been shown to contain enough zinc to negatively affect water ecosystems. This should be of great concern with Painters Run creek nearby. Potable water may be wasted due to the watering of the fields to decrease the heat to an acceptable level for play, and subsequently, that watering will increase storm water runoff which is a critical regional issue."
Who will advocate for Mt. Lebanon, Kristen? You or your environmental advocate?
Elaine
Linfante is advocating for the environment, don'cha know.
Gotta do something with all those old tires the EPA won't allow in landfills.
What better idea is there than grinding them up into tiny granuales and dumping them on kids sports fields.
So maybe Kristen campaigned as an environmentalist but we *all* know she is not. How on Earth can one present as an environmentalist while also obsessed with culling deer? How many environmentalists are afraid of deer in their backyards?
So after her campaign to cull wildlife in Mt Lebanon, she and her colleagues are on to literally destroying the habitats of both our aquatic and non aquatic creatures.
We won't see bald eagles nesting on trees above the stream along Cedar Boulevard -- they prefer city digs. Smart birds?
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bald-Eagles-in-Western-Pennsylvania-Audubon-Society-of-Western-PA/128337160680295
"To be ethical is to endeavor to find one's proper place in the larger scheme of things rather than to seek to assert human superiority over the natural world.”
― Gary Steiner
Feb. 20, 2014 3:25 AM, just a follow up. It has been 24 hours since I asked the commissioners about an indoor field. I realize they get many emails in the course of a day; however, I haven't heard back from any of them. Perhaps I will get my answer in next week's RTK, if it is granted. I wonder if that is why there has been nothing said about lights.
Elaine
Apology would be in order from Commissioner Linfante at this point.
I was reminded of this Gateway presentation. Ms. Linfante, I see many options.
Note: Gateway said no drainage improvements required at Wildcat and Middle fields. It was ready to accept turf. Remember that the next time Cedar Blvd. floods.
Elaine
Rember that Gateway presentation when the final bids come in on the field turf project.
Better not be any drainage improvements in the bid or as 'capital improvements' after the project starts.
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