That is what the Sports Advisory Board is calling the turf project for Middle and Wildcat Fields.
Sports Advisory Board Video from Feb. 6, 2014
A presentation will be made to the commission on Tuesday, February 11, 2014 at 6:15 PM. Notes from the presentation are:
Fundraising YTD $56,500 Target is $250,000
Contributions include:
$47,500 from Sports Associations
$5,000 PAC
$4,000 from an anonymous donor (Gateway?)
Contributions are being handled by Mt. Lebanon Community Endowment.
Signage revenue would be considered as non-municipal contributions
Recommended fee schedule:
Recognized Mt. Lebanon Sports Associations would be charged $15/hour per field. It is estimated that a minimum of $12,000 in fees collected annually would be allocated for turf replacement.
In lieu of fees, MTLSD would be responsible for field maintenance.
Vendor List 1/15/14 meeting
Field Turf
Astro Turf
Shaw
Prograss
Some vendors from 1/15/14 also sell organic fill turf, and none spoke highly of organic fill turf. Organic fill (coconut shells and cork) tends to float away. It freezes. There is a tendency for "stuff" to grow in it and would need a pesticide treatment. It also decomposes.
Vendor List 2/7/14 meeting
GeoTurf organic fill turf
Project Schedule
Design Development - pending Commission approval Feb./March 2014
Construction Documents & Specifications April/May 2014
Advertise Bids May 15, 2014
Open Bids June 4, 2014
Award Bids at either the June 10 or 23rd Commission Meeting
Begin Construction July 15, 2014*
Completion Date October 21, 2014
*Flexible may be August 1, 2014
There was discussion of potential capital projects using more unassigned funds. Everyone was in agreement that McNeilly is out of the question. Dave Franklin was silent. Also, instead of buying a mower for the golf course, a number of smaller projects could be completed instead.
My takeaway: Organic turf is not an option. We'll see what my RTK reveals, if it ever gets granted.
Update February 9, 2014 10:25 AM Organic infill would be an Add/Alternate.
114 comments:
Where's Mr. Franklin's report on his Lebo Fields Blog?
Why would field sign revenue be considered non-municipal?
Who built and maintained the fields and fences?
Who maintains and staffs the recreations that oversees the fields?
Who "owns" the fields?
Is there anything about these "facilities" that isn't municipal? Any revenue made from the fields should be considered municipal contributions to turf unless it is a specifically defined surcharge that will go only towards turf. Even that is debatable as to whether the surcharge should be considered non-municipal.
You knew that was going to happen, 7:12 PM. I knew that was going to happen, even though I specifically said during citizens comments that the signage revenue shouldn't go toward the non-municipal contributions. It belongs to us.
I believe the signage revenue is part of a package deal. Contribute a certain amount and you get a sign.
Elaine
This whole turfing project is a set-up.
From dismissing Fraasch's proposal to the creation of the Turf Task Force. to Linfante's lie that the Environmental Sustainabilty Board was on board with it.
The synthetic turf installation will destroy a natural recreational setting, add toxins to the air and water, decrease the esthetic value of Cedar Blvd, and diminish the possibility of spontaneous play on previously shared common property.
So...
On May 18, 1971, Pennsylvania's voters by a four-to-one margin ratified what is now Article I, Section 27 of our state constitution--the Environmental Rights Amendment:
The people have a right to clean air, pure water, and to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic and esthetic values of the environment. Pennsylvania's public natural resources are the common property of all the people, including generations yet to come. As trustee of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit of all the people.
According to former legislator, Franklin Kury, "municipalities are obligated to implement (this law). And everyone elected to any public office in Pennsylvania swears to uphold the amendment when he or she takes the oath of office".
Contact Franklin Kury for more info on this law:
Email: fkury@malady-wooten.com
Harrisburg office: (717) 236-9600
For more resources contact:
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/environmental_quality_board/14005/environmental_quality_board_membership_list/589177#DOH
For a local contact: see John Walliser's info from the link above.
Mr. Brumfield alluded that realtors could drive prospective homebuyers past the turf fields and new pool and that would help them sell our homes.
Going to be a tough sale, especially when millage rates are factored in.
Here's what's going on up in Cranberry, where they already have the natural grass fields Dicks Sportsplex.
http://cranberry.patch.com/groups/business-news/p/take-a-sneak-peak-at-new-plans-for-upmcpittsburgh-penguins-facility-in-cranberry
"Also shown are pedestrian and biking lanes, sidewalks, a heavily landscaped traffic roundabout and two water features, including a 10-foot waterfall that will cascade from an upper pond into a pond at a lower elevation.
A seating area with benches will be located near the water feature, said Jim Venture, of the PVE Sheffler LLC engineering firm.
“We’re trying to go for more of a rustic, rocky type look with the ponds and the water features, so we intend to construct some seating areas primarily around the water features,” he said."
How come we're fixated on plastic grass when Commissioner Fraasch's plan might add so much more in diverse recreation and nature-oriented opportunities?
Our Chartiers Creek watershed, in the last comprehensive report by the EPA, was described as "Despite being relatively small, Chartiers Creek Watershed has the highest number of impaired streams of any watershed in the state".
Our little streams are already tremendously impaired. Our larger watershed is sick.
And now... the water from the synthetic turf is going to drain downhill into our watershed and then into the creek beds along Cedar Boulevard.
So the water from this impervious synthetic turf field, is going to run into the creek bed along Cedar Boulevard.
Isn't this cancer awareness week?
But our heroes, in the muni etc., know that they have to be very careful managing the storm water from the impervious synthetic turf as they indicated the following in the 2011 Ordinance “Establishing a Fee for Stormwater Collection and Management":
"Inadequate management of accelerated storm-water runoff through a watershed...undermines floodplain management and flood reduction efforts in upstream and downstream communities, reduces groundwater recharge and threatens public health and safety."
Arguing in favor of a comprehensive program of storm water management due to the impact of impervious surfaces in Mt Lebanon, the ordinance states further: “Once property is developed, peak flow, runoff volume and pollution all increase greatly”.
http://mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/4027
But now the municipality is developing property and is essentially promising us that "pollution is going to increase greatly".
With the already impaired watersheds, why not add tire crumbs, right?
http://www.epa.gov/waters/tmdldocs/30109_ChartiersReport.pdf
I am not sure what is going on, because as of Saturday morning at 8:19 AM, there were no agendas for Tuesday's meetings posted on the municipal website. I believe it is the commission president's job to have it posted on time.
The über SAB Turf Task Force is to be making a presentation during the Discussion Session. They usually start around 6:30. We cannot speak during that time, but if you stick around until 8 PM, why don't folks let the commission know about these issues? Say it in public. Make it "official."
Elaine
12:00 AM, you write "And now... the water from the synthetic turf is going to drain downhill into our watershed and then into the creek beds along Cedar Boulevard." Guess where water comes from when Morgan Drive floods? Look uphill. There is synthetic turf sitting up there.
I don't know why parents aren't screaming about the high school turf. All this publicity about Cancer Awareness Week, and kids, not mine, play on toxic turf. Obviously, those pro turf parents don't give a rat's behind about the EPA. They are more concerned about trophy cases and the way a ball rolls.
Elaine
So who has contacted the EPA and Pennsylvania DEP? Seems like our genius commishes and Franklin are going on a wing and a prayer regarding environmental impact. Start calling every environmental attorney you know. It's not too late to stop the train wreck.
Hey Environmental teams...where are you ? Time to speak up ! Stand up for your believes !
9:43 AM and 9:58 AM, Maybe the Environmental Sustainability Board will take a stand.
I am hoping that something in my Mother Of All RTKs will shed some light.
Elaine
The ESB and the Green Team are real good at making a show on initiatives that involve spending our money on things like No Idling signs and PAYT that have questionable impact on actually doing anything for the environment. When it comes to defending the natural environment and protecting our kids from potential health risk, they are amazingly quiet.
No Lebomag contributions, no letters
to the editor that they've observed artificial turf rubber pellets in kids hair and clothing. No read research papers of pellets being found in young sports participants lungs. They can though keep track of the number of trash cans people put out.
Here's the link for the ESB, showing their duties and mission.
http://www.mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?NID=1928
Whom do you think should have a prominent voice in the Commission's Discussion Session and meeting?
Agendas have been posted! The Discussion Session starts at 6:15 PM, with the SAB Turf Task Force presentation being first on the agenda.
Elaine
7:35 P.M. Deer education and goals.
Its about time someone came up with a plan to teach the deer not to eat peoples' plants so we don't have to shoot them.
For those who have not watched the SAB video, and I suspect that is most of you, increased parking would be needed for Middle and Wildcat Fields, once the toxic turf is installed. And they haven't even touched upon lighting!
Don't forget that the balance of this million dollar project still needs to be funded from unassigned funds from this year. How will the parking improvements be funded? And the golf course still doesn't have a tractor and looks like it won't happen this year either, if the SAB gets their way.
Elaine
Elaine Dave B. and his family isn't into golf! You can forget a dime going in that direction! But the new rumor is it wouldn't cost that much more to add a 'structure' like the tennis bubbles so the turfed fields could be used year round. Here comes STEP 2!
That may come out in the RTK, if it is true.
Elaine
This comment was sent to me and asked to have it posted.
Elaine
Fantastic idea 7:54 ! Contain the toxins !
I have heard from others that they cannot comment from their phone. I have no idea why that is happening. I have a dumb phone and still don't text! My kids will tell you that I don't even turn on my phone. :)
Elaine
I just listened to the SAB meeting. I thought Franklin was representing PAB. According to David Donnellan PAB did not have a recommendation about the turf field. What's going on?
"Mt. Lebanon Bubble Boys!" oh I can hear the catcalls from opposing travel teams now!
Oh sorry. President Linfante.
Must be PC gender neutral— "MTL Bubble People".
Summary
The truth Kelly Fraasch is working on beautifying Cedar with her plans for Robb Hollow which could be a "Crown Jewel".
The truth Kristin Linfante, Dave Brumfield and John Bendel have become delusional about turf and what it means for the community.
The three will be responsible for devastating one of our nicest parks on Cedar. They will ruin the whole area and people will remember them for it.
The truth Steve Silverman will need to make the right decision. A choice that should be easy but will be made difficult my a small group of bullies in this town.
Sierra Club Sues City to Stop Beach Chalet Soccer Fields Project
9:07 AM, I think Franklin is pulling a Linfante by pushing his own agenda and not being a fair representative and honest of his committee. Thank you for watching the video. I encourage more to do the same. There are lots of points still to be made.
9:11 AM, would that be a bubble in the bubble?
9:20 AM, I agree. The crown jewel is Robb Hollow and not destroying the best field in the Municipality.
The three commissioners are delusional because we are letting them get away with it.
It really doesn't matter what Steve Silverman thinks. There is a majority that will push it through with or without him.
Elaine
9:34 AM, I Googled your comment and found the link. http://theyodeler.org/?p=6704
Elaine
Where's Linfante's Reallebo blog partner?
Didn't she once admonish the school board to be more like California and write in mtl magazine about saving the environment by buying solar panels?
Guess our kids' health isn't a big concern.
Who will be collecting the field usage fees? David Donnellan emphasized that $12,000 will be the MINIMUM amount accrued. How will the excess funds be used?
Was there a RFP for JT Sauer or are they muni design consultants?
Elaine: Is it safe to assume construction shall begin in July prior to the deadline of the Turf Board's $250,000 fund raising efforts? Bids shall be awarded in June. Is it practical to award bids in June prior our knowledge of the Turf Board's contribution?
Good questions, 10:39 AM. According to Dave Franklin, no contracts will be awarded unless they have $250,000. He thinks that they will be able to raise the $250,000. May 14, 2014 is the Go or No Go date...or June.
The commission based the $250,000 contribution on 25% of the project. If it comes in under one million, I guess their contribution would be less. Nothing was said if bids come in over a million.
Elaine
Oh crap, this sounds like another high school renovation con job as in— we fully expect the HS renovation to come in well below $100 million— to get everyone on board.
Then fein surprise once the wheels are turning and say we can't turn back now!
Based on preliminary project estimates lately, expect the numbers to be much higher once the bids come in.
Correction: feign, not fein
http://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/101774/municipalities-selling-ad-space-to-raise-revenue.html
"Advocates say that such deals are a no-brainer. Brands get exposure in high-visibility locations, and cities get a revenue stream simply by signing a few pieces of paper."
If someone is selling ad space on municipal property- such as space on field signs- it IS municipal revenue— not non-municipal revenue.
If a group erected an outdoor board on private property and elected to donate the money to the Rec Dept., that would be non-municipal revenue.
Our commissioners have no legal authority to transfer our munipal property to any group or individual for profit creation. If they do, there should be an appeal to the PA attorney general to intercede by our state reps.
Check Section 1303 of the current Home Rule Charter.
It reads—
"It [commission] shall not, however, without securing approval from the voters of the Municipality in a primary, municipal or general election delegate to any board or authority the power to levy assessments or collect fees or tolls for any service In the nature of a utility generally required by the public."
Construction and maintenance of municipal fields and parks would be, I would think, be defined as a utility required by the public and therefore giving any sports group or 'board' the power to sell ad space without a referendum is illegal under our Home Rule Charter!
Dictionary.com
"utility
noun [plural u·til·i·ties.]
1. the state or quality of being useful; usefulness: This chemical has no utility as an agricultural fertilizer.
2. something useful; a useful thing.
3. a public service, as a telephone or electric-light system, a streetcar or railroad line, or the like." [Or Parks and a Rec or Maintenance Dept.?]
I will jump.
These turf fields will be the crown jewel. Everyone has turf, why would they have turf if it was so unhealthy?
Who wants another park to maintain? Kelly Fraasch's plan has nothing to do with this community and helping the children here in Mt Lebanon to play sports and be active.
1:05 PM, the EPA just released their findings in late Fall 2013. Perhaps that is why "everyone has turf." It was installed pre-EPA warnings, just like our toxic turf at the high school.
Elaine
1:05, I'll try and rebut your argument as cordially as possile.
"These turf fields will be the crown jewel."
#1. Wildcat/Middle already are our crown jewels. Proper maintenance and care would make them even better.
"Everyone has turf, why would they have turf if it was so unhealthy?"
#2. not "everyone" HAS or WANTS turf. The Dicks Sportsplex in Cranberry is all natural grass fields.
Did you not read the Stop the Beach Chalet Soccer Project article at 9:42?
"Who wants another park to maintain? Kelly Fraasch's plan has nothing to do with this community and helping the children here in Mt Lebanon to play sports and be active."
#3. Here you your biggest error. Kelly's plan does not ADD another park. Its designed to swap the useless and expensive McNeilly 'Park' property for recreational development in the Robb Hollow eyesore.
It adds two sports areas for practice and games plus amenities that will serve a wider range of residents from dog owners to joggers and walkers. It'll provide a nature class pavillon and beautify a gateway to our community.
Artificially turfing Wildcat/Middle only adds a few play slots from quick recovery of an existing field while polluting our waterways and impacting our kids health.
I'll look forward to reading your rebuttal 1:05.
Votes against & moratoriums on synthetic turf in other towns:
http://www.synturf.org/sayno.html
Wow! I count 125 towns voting against artificial turf.
Elaine
Oh my! Look at the warnings. Some are even before the installation of the toxic turf at the high school.
http://www.synturf.org/warnings.html
Also, like asbestos in the schools, we thought we were doing the right thing, but now we know otherwise.
http://www.synturf.org/epa.html
"“Finally,” according to Dr. Brown, “as sobering as it may be, it is necessary to look at the damage done. Thousands of American children have been exposed to cancer causing chemicals during their formative and most sensitive years.” “The exposures are not trivial and they continue at schools and playgrounds,” he wrote.
Call for a moratorium. If there is any time for the application of the precautionary principle to the use of crumb rubber in artificial turf fields and other synthetic playing surfaces it is now. According to this principle when an activity raises threats of harm to human health or the environment, precautionary measures should be taken even if some cause and effect relationships are not fully established scientifically. In this context the proponent of an activity, rather than the public, should bear the burden of proof. The process of applying the precautionary principle must be open, informed and democratic and must include potentially affected parties. It must also involve an examination of the full range of alternatives, including no action. http://www.synturf.org/precautionaryprinciple.html ."
I think Brumfield, Linfante, and Bendel should bear the burden of proof.
Elaine
1:05? Where are you 1:05?
Perhaps, they jumped off that bridge they saw their friends leap from and their parents warned them not to jump from and they're not coming back.
According to the Home Rule Charter, can't residents petition for an ordinance and with enough signatures, the ordinance has to be voted on at the next meeting, right?
So there should be an ordinance mandating adherence to the precautionary principle. This adherence "must be open, informed and democratic and must include potentially affected parties. It must also involve an examination of the full range of alternatives, including no action".
With respect to health or environmental impacts, the opinions of impartial field experts should be shared with the public (e.g., board of health, scientists, physicians, etc).
You know what else is odd? Last month, it was announced at the SAB meeting that Gateway Engineers donated the first $4000, but now it is an "anonymous donor."
See page 3 under design considerations-water management about catch basins and stormwater runoff. Wouldn't our municipal engineer know about catch basins and stormwater runoff?
Elaine
Recent experience with change orders on the high school project shows us just how expensive stormwater handling can add significant cost above the bid on a project! I haven't read any mention of catch basin construction to handle field runoff in the turf proposal.
Commissions aren't you going to ask about that?
Plus, read further in the FieldTurf Handbook.
Caring fir artificial turf seems pretty equipment & labor intensive. Where is the costs savings over natural grass?
Suspect Gateway's donation disappeared becauseit would be a conflict of interest.
If Gateway wanted to help the turf project why not stay quiet and just take $4,000 off the tab if the project got started, rather than ante up front to make it happen?
4:23 PM,it is on record that Gateway donated $4000 in 2013 and may donate more in 2014. It is in the video of the last month's SAB meeting.I guess that is why Dave Brumfield doesn't think boards should be recorded.
Just like how our children have been playing on toxic turf at the high school, the damage is done.
Elaine
I think there are some good questions for Gateway. Since they know our "best practices for storm water management", and they know that our watershed is impaired and designated so by the EPA as recently as 2012, they can tell us how they will adhere to the mandates of the Clean Water Act with respect to the impact of the synthetic turf (with known toxic infill) and the measurement of the TMDL (a calculation of the maximum amount of a pollutant that a waterbody can receive and still meet water quality standards, and an allocation of that load among the various sources of that pollutant).
This will be a tricky calculation given that it's hard to predict how much storm water we will receive on a daily basis, the strength of the storms, and how much pollution from the newly turfed fields will be carried into our watershed along Cedar Boulevard as a result of the weather.
Maybe, upon consideration of these limitations imposed by the EPA and the unknowns of mother nature, materials that are known hazards to water would be avoided in an area characterized by an impaired watershed.
http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/lawsguidance/cwa/tmdl/overviewoftmdl.cfm
Politics is the art of working with people--an art unknown by our local elected officials who practice more the arts of power, always striking first, never considering the possibility that the other guy might have a point, and always trying to undermine the moral validity of any idea not their own. We should congratulate them on tying their opponents in knots as they have succeeded in doing their pleasure while dicing all opposition. The challenge is for the rest to produce leaders who can communicate and who are willing to stand when it counts, at election time, against what seems to many of us as the obvious errors of their ways. What is wrong in this town is the DOING of those in power, but their opportunity to acquire and keep power is the FAULT of those who fail to present a credible alternative leadership. Let's stop whining and start organizing.
On 1:05 claim that Kelly's plan does nothing to help the kids play sports.
How many rainouts do we have vs games and practices that get played?
If you add two fields that can be used for practices and younger groups games that frees up slots on all the other fields.
On the other hand if Wildcat/Middle is booked solid now you still have restrictions on how rainouts can be added back into the schedule.
You can't play a regular scheduled game and a rescheduled rainout for the same field.
so far we have over 2,700,000 reasons to take our responsibility of leadership seriously and end the reign of terror by the exclusive elite who tread all over the public with no regard for the economic and environmental welfare of the people, let alone for any sense of community or respect for others---they got where they are by being elected -- that means there is no effective political opposition -- venting on the blog is all well and good to inform and give the opportunity to coalesce, but who is doing anything about it?
Good speech 5:02.
Any ideas how to get the organizing started?
Uh, I think I have, 5:13 PM. For four frickin' years!
Now I have to beg for money to pay for transparency in Mt. Lebanon.
Elaine
Yep, if it weren't for Elaine's blog we'd barely be getting 'the other side of the story."
Plus, a few individuals stepped up to the plate and ran for office against the machines. They didn't get much support.
Remember the "What the Kluck!" town hall, and effort to get people involved in local affairs. How was that received?
February 9, 2014 at 2:10 PM
Here it is. I am not worried because at this point no one except the typically people that complain are going to come out and say anything. Everyone is for this plan except for a handful of people that all want to complain. Either speak up or shut up and no one spoke up.
Rob Hollow is a public works area, industrial park not a recreational park. Shame Kelly is taking that away from our Public Works Dept. John Bendel will be hailed as the hero when that turf goes up.
John Bendel, hailed as a hero? Wow! I had no idea.
Elaine
10:25
Do you even know where the public works is supposed to be housed? They already store things on property is that outside their proper boundaries.
I appreciate that you want turf. But get your facts straight on public works before you use them to put down a public official.
10:25 AM, it also helped that the November 25 vote and Mt. Lebanon hero, John Bendel's plan was not published on mtlebanon.org, lebomag.com, davebrumfield.com, lebofields.blogspot.com, Kristen's now removed valuemtlebanon.com, LeboALERT, Facebook, or Twitter, not to mention how Kristen lied about the ESB supporting artificial turf.
I also will be stuck with a humungous RTK bill because of your lack of transparency. Thanks a lot.
Elaine
10:25 when will you learn?
You certainly love your wide-spweeping generalities don't you, even though evidence proves you wrong.
Earlier you said "everyone has turf."
Wrong! Everyone doesn't even want turf.
Now you say "everyone is for this plan except for a handful of people that want to complain."
Hmmm, if how the Environmental Sustainability Board members appreciate you calling them a bunch of complainers and flipping their advice a figurative bird.
You seem confident that this plan is desired by a majority of residents.
Lets see if you're right... Put it to a referendum!
ENvironmental Sustainabilty Board... hello!!!
10:25 just slapped you across the face and caled you a bunch of constant complainers.
Guess they've thrown down the guantlet— either speak up or shut up.
What are you going to do???
If you shut up on this issue, it'll be very hard not to consider the ESB irrelevant here in the bubble.
The three commissioners, hero included, don't need no stinkin' ESB. It has already been voted through.
Elaine
Does anyone know how this "want to turf" space is zoned? It seems to me to be the only open space in Mt Lebanon that is visible from a main road.
What has the zoning board said about this plan to add fences/signs/advertising to Cedar Blvd?
Once again 10:25 completely disregard facts.
On the municipal website Robb Hollow is listed as a park along with 12 other parks such as Williamsburg, Twin Hills, Rockwood, Hoodridge, etc., etc.
(For some unknown reason McNeilly doesn't show though it was purchased to be be a recreation/park area.)
Upon selecting Robb Hollow the following description comes up—
9. Robb Hollow Park
(Cedar Blvd. near public works)
http://www.mtlebanon.org/index.aspx?NID=207
So 10:25 you are the obvious buffoon on at least more two counts!
#1. For inferring that Kelly Fraasch was adding a park. Her plan can't add a park if it already exist and you owe her a public apology.
#2. Robb Hollow is an not industrial park as you claim. Oh right, you have a better handle on municipal property than everyone including the PIO, manager, commissioners and taxpayers.
You truly are a buffoon by definition.
From iword.com/dictionary:
"Main Entry: buf·foon
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)bə-ˈfün\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French bouffon,from Old Italian buffone
Date: 1585
1 : a ludicrous figure : clown 2 : a gross and usually ill-educated or stupid person
— buf·foon·ish \-ˈfü-nish\adjective"
February 10, 2014 at 11:01 AM
I heard on the recording from Kristen Linfante that the ESB is in fact supported the turf at Wildcat Middle didn't you check the facts first?
She is the President and liaison to the board isn't she?
The "complainers" are those that don't want to spend a dime on our kids in this community. We don't need to go to referendum because the majority of the Commission has spoken. Kelly Fraasch and Matt Kluck never wanted turf or support any spending on our future.
1:46 PM, hold that thought.
Elaine
1:46 once with an attack on Kelly Fraasch-- she doesn't want to support any spending on our future.
Please go into depth on how you arrived at this idiotic conclusion?
What do you think she was going to dig and groom her proposed fields, build the pavillon at Robb Hollow in her spare time?
Maybe rainouts are a good thing, in that they give kids a chance to rest and engage in free play without adult intervention.
From ScienceDaily:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140103205139.htm
"Overuse injuries, burnout in youth sports can have long-term effects"
""For the 60 million U.S. children and adolescents between 6-18 years who participate in some form of organized athletics, youth sports can be an enjoyable and beneficial experience, offering opportunities to increase self-esteem, peer socialization and general fitness. However, an emphasis on competition, collegiate scholarships and elite-level success has led to increased pressure to begin high-intensity training at young ages, often in only one sport. Consequently, overuse injuries and burnout are affecting many young athletes."
Parents and taxpayers may want to educate themselves.
Available from Amazon-
The Most Expensive Game in Town: The Rising Cost of Youth Sports and the Toll on Today's Families by Mark Hyman
Product Description
A look at how commercialization has transformed youth sports from fun into a heavily commercialized and profitable venture
Examining the youth sports economy from many sides—the major corporations, the small entrepreneurs, the coaches, the parents, and, of course, the kids—Hyman probes the reasons for rapid changes in what gets bought and sold in this lucrative marketplace. He reveals the effects on kids and profiles the individuals and communities bucking this destructive trend of commercialization.
Review
“An eye-opening look at yet another way that profit-driven adults are robbing kids of fun. Mark Hyman’s compelling exploration of the business of youth sports today is an important read for anyone who cares about children—or how the game is played.”
—Susan Linn, author of Consuming Kidsand The Case for Make Believe: Saving Play in a Commercialized World
"It is widely noted that youth sports have their problems, from the obsession with results to premature specialization. However, economics are at the heart of these problems, and what often gets left unsaid is clearly outlined in Mark Hyman's new book."
-Doug Glanville, Time.com
“Hyman—a recovering sports dad himself—adopts a refreshingly nonjudgmental attitude toward the parents who started out pacing the sidelines and ended up walking off the deep end. . . . With a mix of facts and anecdotes, Hyman pivots to explore the supply side of the equation.”
—Gordon Marino, New York Times Book Review
“[Hyman] presents the numbers to prove that most folks who feel that clinics for eight year olds and private coaches for children too young to brush their own teeth are more likely to lead to burnout than to brilliant careers.”
—Bill Littlefield, National Public Radio’s “Only a Game.”
February 10, 2014 at 2:27 PM
As it has been said in many meetings with the sports parents Kelly Fraasch waged a war against the fields with no intentions to help field sports.
3:34 PM, why the attacks on Kelly Fraasch? You are getting your precious toxic turf, aren't you? You are getting everything you have ever asked for, haven't you? You got McNeilly. You got Twin Hills. You even got Bird Park fixed. She even offered 2 fields at Robb Hollow. I am confused.
Elaine
2:27 just because you write something doesn't make it true!
Kelly Fraasch offered two sports fields in her Robb Hollow proposal- not one - TWO!
If that is waging war, you an I have two definitions of what a war is.
I love the first sentence in the review by Susan Linn— "An eye-opening look at yet another way that profit-driven adults are robbing kids of fun."
("About the Author Susan Linn is a psychologist at Judge Baker Children’s Center and Harvard Medical School in Boston.... mentored by the late Fred Rogers.")
"3:34 doth protest too much, methinks."
Anyone wondering why the sports groups have the reputation they have?
Sounds like they are having meetings about Commissioners rather than sports.
It certainly appears that 3:34 at the very least, has it in for one commissioner!
Is lying, mis representing facts how they get along and play with other people.
Says a lot about the lessons they learned playing sports, doesn't it?
Well 3:34 if the sports parents in many meetings said Kelly waged a war against fields and had no intentions of helping field sports, it damn well must be true!
How dare we suspect the words of sports parents???!!!!
I'm a little confused. How are sports parents defined? I have kids in sports and I do not believe Kelly Fraasch is the enemy. I think she came up with a very good plan for Robb Hollow and was "blindsided" by this turf plan. Maybe there are individual differences among sports parents....
I am skeptical about how many days of playing the turf is going to add. Many days of play will need to be taken away solely because kids are playing on turf instead of grass, which is known to add to the heat on the field substantially. Hot days now will become a source of major frustration for the turf supporters. Children can't safely play in extremely hot conditions on turf, especially if they are heavily covered in padding, etc., like they are for lacrosse and football.
5:35 if the sports groups are short of field playing spots now, turfing one/two of them DOES NOT add a significant number of game slots to make up rain outs as the "sports parents" like to suggest.
Lets say you have a full week of scheduled games. Monday gets rained out. Just because you have artificial turf, doesn't mean that Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday can absorb the rained out Monday schedule.
The only thing artificial turf does is allow Tuesday's and subsequent games to take place since the field dries faster.
It was argued our fields are overused now and we needed more fields in the rotation. Kelly's plan added at least a practice and field into the rotation alleviating some of the pressure from the other fields. Which would have helped their conditions through less play.
Artificial turf DOES NOT add fields into the rotation.
Its not rocket science, though for 10:25 it may be since they cannot discern a park from a maintenance area or read the municipal pages on the number and names of parks.
Its scary that 10:25 may be one of the people advising our commissioners on how we need to spend $1.2 million.
What is scarier yet 6:40 is that Feller, Donnellan and the commissioners apparently think like 10:25. Or maybe one of the above is 10:25.
February 10, 2014 at 3:42 PM
by this time next year every realtor in Lebo will drive down Cedar and show off the Crown Jewel. We will see an increase in new people moving in that want turf because they want playtime. Robb Hollow might be a good plan with fields but it must be done after WCM. A lot of people have put time and money toward WCM and no one will turn back now. This is a good thing for the whole community to have such a jewel. I am not quite sure why this is all so hard to comprehend. Twin Hills isn't a field. McNeilly isn't a field.
Don’t know how Kelly can trust any of the commissioners or staff at this point. I sure wouldn’t.
I’m a sports parent. I’ve always believed that Kelly was interested in helping the sports people. When I talked with her at the baseball field Kelly was walking around and asking about needs for the kids. PARKING!!!!!! Every parent on the bleachers told her PARKING was such a problem. Some parents don’t even go anymore to see the kids play because they can’t find a spot. She asked about turf and one of the parents said yes. The rest of us said parking was the top concern. We need more fields and space.
8:12 did it ever occur to you that there just might be people in the world that don't give a damn about plastic grass?
Maybe they might enjoy a walking trail or perhaps they have a dog and are looking for a place to let 'em run.
Kelly's plan had something for everybody and it made unloading the 'un-park' McNeilly Park a possibilty.
Freeing up some more for street repair, pedestrian safety or even field maintenance.
Why is that so hard for you to comprehend.
Oh by the way you don't get to define what a crown jewel is for everyine, you're not God!
One thing you're right about 8:12.
A lot of people have invest time and money in Wildcat/Middle and some of them prefer them to remain natural grass fields.
Of course that's with the understanding that somehow you 8:12, think your money is greener and time more valuable than everybody elses.
The corruption here is *so deep* and *flagrant* I don't know where to start.
You can't be an unbiased engineering contractor (i.e., Gateway Engineering), providing counsel and advice on cost and feasibility, and also make material financial contributions to the success of certain high dollar projects (i.e., synthetic turf) at the same time.
THIS IS FLAGRANT CORRUPTION. Is there an ethics hotline?
10:28 make an appeal to your state senator and state representative asking them to get the attorney general involved.
With the new turf, the trophy case, and the pedestrian bridge to the athletics wing, the best interests of the student athletes are front and center.
But, wait... are they? With Valentine's Day around the corner, let's take a look at student athlete *heart health*.
The Sudden Cardiac Arrest Prevention Act passed in May 2012 in Pennsylvania (after discussion over a longer period preceding 5/12) and has three primary components:
(1) Parents of student athletes in the public school system must review and sign an information sheet about the warning signs and conditions of sudden cardiac arrest.
(2) Coaches must take an annual online training course about sudden cardiac arrest.
(3) Coaches must remove a player from competition that exhibit symptoms of sudden cardiac arrest, and the player may not return until cleared by a licensed medical professional.
But there is much more to this law, including the accessibility of AEDs, online web information, etc., so please see the link below. Of note, the sponsors of youth athletic activities not associated with a school entity are encouraged to follow the guidance stated in this act.
Mr. Grogan, I think that if you and your coaches are not abiding by this law, the coaches are all suspended, so you better get moving.
Mr. Donnellan, how does your budget look for the AED training, AEDs (especially at Bird Park where one could hardly get a hurt kid to a car much less to an AED), website development, etc? I know you are busy and all with the crown jewel but maybe some attention to this little old law might be a good thought (after a SAB meeting of course).
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/US/HTM/2012/0/0059..HTM
Mr. Solicitor, what would happen if a kid has a cardiac event at a Mt Lebanon sporting event and the district/muni haven't started adhering to this law?
Crown jewels, ha!
Family jewels is more like it.
Lol 10:37, way to go telling others to call the Attorney general! why don't you call yourself? Or is it that you don't want to be the ass that complains to the A G? tell me, what laws have been broken?
LOL right back at you 12:32.
10:28 wrote and asked: "THIS IS FLAGRANT CORRUPTION. Is there an ethics hotline?"
I personally don't know if there is an ethics hotline, but its a pretty sure bet our state representives will know and based on their legal backgrounds be able to advise 10:28.
It was 10:28 that said it is flagrant corruption, if they're right which govt office would go after it, 12:32, govt affairs expert that you apparently are.
Apparently, 12:32 in your anger you either can't read or two comments are way more than you can process at one time.
Question 12:32.
Who would you tell them to call... Ghost Busters?
10:28 PM, through a Google search, I found how to file a complaint with the Ethics Commission.
Filing a complaint with the Ethics Commission
If you want to file a complaint with the American Society of Civil Engineers, go here.
ASCE Ethics - Complaints
I took your comment seriously and found the information for you. I hope you do your part and follow through, if that is what you truly believe.
Elaine
Good luck with that 4:09am ! Calling someone stupid because they disagree with you just shows you level of immaturity. I'll guarantee you that the so called ethics hotline, nor the ag will find an offense to prosecute.
Lovely 8:40, its OK to call someone an ass and cause a commotion, because someone offered a possible solution to a question.
If you read my response C-A-R-E-F-U-L-L-Y you will see I made no claim as to whether there was or wasn't FLAGRANT CORRUPTION.
I offered a possible resource for THEM if they indeed believed or had evidence of corruption.
If I had evidence and truly believed corruption existed that is the course I'd take. Smith and Miller are pretty stand up guys, they are our representatives and took a oath to serve their constituents. The state has ethics laws so what is wrong with getting them involved.
Since you're so quick with the advice, what would you suggest to someone asking if there is an ethics hotline?
Oh I got it, you'll act as judge and jury and tell them... "fer git about it... yer wastin' your time."
Did you ask 10:28 why they thought there was a case of flagrant corruption?
OMG. Instead of quibbling over this, just do it! Either file a complaint or don't. I can't do everything.
Elaine
Here is another idea. The Turf Board is making their presentation tonight. Go to the presentation and make up your own mind.
If you have a complaint, then save it for the commission meeting during citizens comments. You can sign your name on the list, right under my name. Who was it, Franklin, who said, "Either speak up or shut up"?
I don't have a kid who will be playing on this toxic turf. If you want to sit around, watch it happen, and then have your kid play on this, then I feel sorry for you.
This isn't about Kelly Fraasch. It isn't about Robb Hollow. It is about three commissioners who pushed this through and used Dave Brumfield's Sports Advisory Board to do his dirty work. We have our municipal engineer making the first donation. You can either thank him for helping the turf dream come to reality, or you can file a complaint with the American Society of Civil Engineers.
You can attack 8:40 AM, but I have a feeling that they were let down by those government agencies. I know that I have lost faith in those agencies.
I have a feeling that the ESB won't do anything. It is really easy to sit and fret or complain. We are being bullied. If you don't like it, then do something about it.
Elaine
At times I often wonder where I live that people would be so heartless or thoughtless to throw a child on a green carpet filled with tire crumbs and name it the Crown Jewel of our community.
1;15 PM Where did 8:40 call you an ass? just sayin? Methinks you protest too much
Yes, 4:34 PM, it is heartless. You should read some of the unpublished comments. The EPA warnings mean nothing to them. I wonder if the Sports Advisory Board will only permit tire crumbs from Cadillacs, Lexus or BMWs.
Elaine
4:35 just can't let it go even though Elaine ask.
Here's your answer.
Didn't say he called me an ass!
I wrote "its OK to call someone an ass" as in 8:40's comment
"you don't want to be the ass that complains to the AG"
His inference is anyone complaining to the AG is an ass.
I'm done now on this issue. Have fun playing this game by yourself.
I think this is about Kelly Fraasch isn't this her ward. I thought Commissioners referred to projects and traffic issues with the recommendation of the Ward Commissioner. Kelly has cited many times that this project would cause trouble for the ward with traffic issues, overuse of the park and may have negative impacts on the property values.
I thought Mt. Lebanon's "Crown Jewel" was suppose to be the $113 million+ high school?!
You mean we could've saved millions and just put in some plastic grass for realtors to drive clients by.
Geez, are we fools.
Yes, 5:03 PM, you are right. In that regard, yes.
Elaine
For people who haven't seen this already, it's a nice summary of the artificial turf related issues in Mt Lebanon: http://mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/View/8979
The Mt. Lebanon Soccer Association has $180,000+ in cash. There is plenty of $$ for ecofriendly turf.
I will be putting together a recap of tonight's turf presentation at the beginning of the Discussion Session. Spoiler alert - YAY ESB!!!
As soon as I get the presentation sent to me by David Donnellan and the podcast uploaded tomorrow, I will start a new post.
Elaine
Thank you, 10:12 PM. Yes, excellent summary. The SAB and Commission need to be reminded of it.
Elaine
That excellent summary—
why hasn't the "community" magazine, the official source of information made it available to residents and taxpayers?
Along those lines, Elaine, looking forward to your summary of the evening's meetings. Its pretty certain the PIO and staff won't be making one available.
Why is the soccer association sitting on $180,000? Aren't they a non-profit? Its understandable for them to cover a balance from year-to-year, but $180,000?
Sounds like their fees may be too high. Plus, that $180,000 would've gone along way to renovating Brafferton into a respectable soccer field.
3:59 AM That reported $180,000 originated from the sale of a 4.5 acre property at Terrace/Conner Rd. for $125,000 by the Lebo Soccer Foundation about 10-11 years ago. The property had been given to them by a Mr. Krebs, who like Kossman at Mt. Lebanon Blvd./Castle Shannon Blvd. had tried unsuccessfully for years to develop it contrary to zoning regs. Krebs got a big federal tax deduction for that gift.
The Soccer Foundation had claimed they would provide an additional $1 million in private funding to develop the property into a soccer field. The Muni bought the promise and permitted such a development. However, as you might expect and to no ones surprise, the Soccer folks didn't come up with the private funds, nary a dime. But a local resident found that our State Rep. Tom Stevenson had very quietly placed a $800,000 state grant proposal for the funding in a DCNR/DCED bond issue. Soccer folks confused private funding with public (taxpayer) funding.
Fortunately the then Gov. did not approve such a grant. The local resident made the farce public, the plans for the soccer field folded, the property was sold and Stevenson lost the next election, just by coincidence of course.
The soccer folks have pledged that same $125,000 several times for various projects, including the purchase of McNeilly Park, but have never come forward with the money. It has now apparently grown to $180,000 ?
8:25 AM the rest of the story is that Rep. Stevenson put the $800,000 soccer funding into the state grant pot instead of for the Lebo Public Safety Center (PSC) building project, which infuriated local officials and the public when revealed. Stevenson refused to help with PSC funding until the same member of the public "blew the whistle" on Stevenson in a public meeting. His reelection fast approaching, Stevenson was able to hurriedly arrange a $250,000 state grant for the PSC, but the public was on to his game and he lost the R nomination primary to a 21 year old college student.
So thru all these years of crying about field conditions, the soccer asdociation could have fixed Brafferton (using Gateway's project estimate) almost completely with their own available funds!
Is this the new Mt. Lebanon ethos. Whine and cry about lack of funds and deteriorating infrastructure while at the same time sitting on busheloads of cash? See the story here on the school district spending.
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