From: Dr. Timothy Steinhauer <noreply@mtlsd.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 4:23:37 PM
To: Mt. Lebanon Parents
Subject: School Safety Letter
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 4:23:37 PM
To: Mt. Lebanon Parents
Subject: School Safety Letter
Dear Mt. Lebanon Parents,
A terrible tragedy took place yesterday in Parkland, Florida. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims, families, students, and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
Please know that we have safety procedures in place for each building and that we review them regularly with our administrators, faculty and staff. In addition, we train within our buildings and with Mt. Lebanon Police, Fire and MRTSA for all types of emergencies. As more details emerge about this incident, we will work with emergency management officials to make adjustments to our plans as necessary.
A terrible tragedy took place yesterday in Parkland, Florida. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims, families, students, and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
Please know that we have safety procedures in place for each building and that we review them regularly with our administrators, faculty and staff. In addition, we train within our buildings and with Mt. Lebanon Police, Fire and MRTSA for all types of emergencies. As more details emerge about this incident, we will work with emergency management officials to make adjustments to our plans as necessary.
Communication is always key to helping prevent such terrible incidents. Parents should talk with their children, as well as with our faculty, staff, and administrators, if any concerns of this nature become evident.
Our students, parents, staff, and community members should know that we will continue to do everything possible to maintain safe, welcoming, and nurturing schools for all of our children. Their safety remains our highest priority.
Our students, parents, staff, and community members should know that we will continue to do everything possible to maintain safe, welcoming, and nurturing schools for all of our children. Their safety remains our highest priority.
Here is a link to the District’s Safety information:
https://www.mtlsd.org/page.cfm?p=561
Sincerely,
Timothy J. Steinhauer, Ed.D.
Superintendent
Superintendent
This is just two weeks after this letter was sent to parents.
From: Dr. Timothy Steinhauer [mailto:noreply@mtlsd.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:28 PM
To: Mt. Lebanon School District Families
Subject: Updated Deer Management Information
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:28 PM
To: Mt. Lebanon School District Families
Subject: Updated Deer Management Information
Dear Mt. Lebanon School District Families,
In our ongoing effort to keep you apprised of local issues, I am sending you information that I received from the Mt. Lebanon Municipality concerning the upcoming cull beginning on February 1 through March 31 of 2018. I have attached a letter from Assistant Municipal Manger Ian McMeans with details about the program and a link to more extensive information on the Municipal website at http://www.mtlebanon.org/2114/Deer-Management-Information. This same information is also being shared with all of our principals, teachers, and support staff. Please do not hesitate to contact the Mt. Lebanon Municipality or Mt. Lebanon Police Department should you have any questions.
Sincerely,
Timothy J. Steinhauer, Ed.D.
Superintendent of Schools
Firing range approved for Mt. Lebanon public works facility
Municipal manager Keith McGill said he discussed the matter with school board member Al Frioni, the liaison to the municipality, and learned: “There appears to be general support for moving forward" with a financial commitment from the school district.
FAKE NEWS! I don't want to play the "Bash The Republican" card, but Al Frioni, a Republican, should never have made the statement that there is general support with a financial commitment from the school district.
Update 8:33 AM
From: egillen476 <egillen476@aol.com>
To: kmcgill <kmcgill@mtlebanon.org>
Cc: commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>; schoolboard <schoolboard@mtlsd.net>; hfunk1213 <hfunk1213@yahoo.com>; TSteinhauer <TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 8:17 am
Subject: Fwd: This just makes me crazy
Keith,
I know you guys are all about firing lethal weapons in undisclosed areas in Mt. Lebanon thirty minutes after elementary school kids are dismissed from school, but your quote in The Almanac is just over the top. Nothing has been approved. If Al Frioni made this commitment with you, he was totally out of line.
Elaine Gillen
Update 8:33 AM
From: egillen476 <egillen476@aol.com>
To: kmcgill <kmcgill@mtlebanon.org>
Cc: commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>; schoolboard <schoolboard@mtlsd.net>; hfunk1213 <hfunk1213@yahoo.com>; TSteinhauer <TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 8:17 am
Subject: Fwd: This just makes me crazy
Keith,
I know you guys are all about firing lethal weapons in undisclosed areas in Mt. Lebanon thirty minutes after elementary school kids are dismissed from school, but your quote in The Almanac is just over the top. Nothing has been approved. If Al Frioni made this commitment with you, he was totally out of line.
Elaine Gillen
Update 9:17 AM
From: egillen476 <egillen476@aol.com>
To: kmcgill <kmcgill@mtlebanon.org>
Cc: commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>; schoolboard <schoolboard@mtlsd.net>; hfunk1213 <hfunk1213@yahoo.com>; TSteinhauer <TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 9:15 am
Subject: Re: This just makes me crazy
To: kmcgill <kmcgill@mtlebanon.org>
Cc: commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>; schoolboard <schoolboard@mtlsd.net>; hfunk1213 <hfunk1213@yahoo.com>; TSteinhauer <TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 9:15 am
Subject: Re: This just makes me crazy
Thanks for your quick response, Keith. Please keep in mind that even though the municipality has been discussing the possibility of a shared facility with the school district since at least 2014, you can't assume that there is general support for moving forward.
Elaine
Elaine
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Mcgill <kmcgill@mtlebanon.org>
To: egillen476 <egillen476@aol.com>
Cc: Commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>; schoolboard <schoolboard@mtlsd.net>; Harry Funk <hfunk1213@yahoo.com>; tsteinhauer <TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 8:53 am
Subject: Re: This just makes me crazy
Keith
Update 9:37 AM
From: Keith Mcgill <kmcgill@mtlebanon.org>
To: egillen476 <egillen476@aol.com>
Cc: Commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>; schoolboard <schoolboard@mtlsd.net>; Harry Funk <hfunk1213@yahoo.com>; tsteinhauer <TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 9:33 am
Subject: Re: This just makes me crazy
“Had we stayed with the golf course site, this project was always financially planned to be able to move forward without contribution from the school district. So the capacity’s there from a budget standpoint,” McGill said about municipal resources, “and we’re looking for the school district to partner because we’ll create one facility that meets the needs of both groups.”
Thank you,
Keith
From: Keith Mcgill <kmcgill@mtlebanon.org>
To: egillen476 <egillen476@aol.com>
Cc: Commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>; schoolboard <schoolboard@mtlsd.net>; Harry Funk <hfunk1213@yahoo.com>; tsteinhauer <TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 8:53 am
Subject: Re: This just makes me crazy
Good morning Elaine,
Thank you for your opinion. You are correct that the school board has not taken an action or even offered any comments to the municipality on this issue. The statement was not made by Mr. Frioni, but is based on the fact that the facility would meet the needs of the High School rifle team. The municipality has been discussing the possibility of a shared facility with the school district since at least 2014. Hence the comment that there appears to be general support for moving forward. Keith
Update 9:37 AM
From: Keith Mcgill <kmcgill@mtlebanon.org>
To: egillen476 <egillen476@aol.com>
Cc: Commission <commission@mtlebanon.org>; schoolboard <schoolboard@mtlsd.net>; Harry Funk <hfunk1213@yahoo.com>; tsteinhauer <TSteinhauer@mtlsd.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 16, 2018 9:33 am
Subject: Re: This just makes me crazy
Good morning Elaine,
You are correct, which is why the next paragraph in the article reads as follows:“Had we stayed with the golf course site, this project was always financially planned to be able to move forward without contribution from the school district. So the capacity’s there from a budget standpoint,” McGill said about municipal resources, “and we’re looking for the school district to partner because we’ll create one facility that meets the needs of both groups.”
61 comments:
General consensus?!! Of the board? Of taxpayers?
Mr. Lebowitz declared $300,000 for the range is hard to come by, BUT!!!!- apparently turfing one, two or three school for millions of dollars is a walk in the park.
And there it is. Right back to turf. Please stop.
Elaine
I am scared to death during the yearly seven-month deer killing events. With mass shootings on the rise, here we are, living in a community that glorifies guns.
You and me both, 9:45 AM. Here is an idea, commissioners. How about Tony DeNicola establishing a scholarship for future deer killers? He already uses Public Works to gut the deer. We have photos to prove it. He should donate the proceeds from the seven months of deer killing since he is a "Non-profit" organization. Let the school district keep the $300,000 for the remaining 1743 students. https://www.mtlsd.org/page.cfm?p=915
Elaine
Instead of inviting more guns into our community, the muni must reverse course. This insanity with weapons is destroying Mt. Lebanon.
The liberal psychosis in this community is just mind boggling.
Jones—-Liberal psychosis? You have no basis for that claim.
Since when did caring about your children become "liberal psychosis?" If that's the case, I'll wear that label proudly.
While I’m not a big proponent of guns nor a anti- gun crusader, I’m just curious why we need a range at all.
Found this shooting range in nearby Bridgeville that offers special rates for police and military. I don’t know what that special rates is but they offer individual memberships at $100 initiation fee and $30/month.
Or there is a straight hourly rate of $20/hr without a membership.
https://ironcityarmory.com/ranges/
At $20/hour we could send our police officers there to practice for one hour/month for $240/year. I believe Mt. Lebanon has 52 officers. So to provide them all with 1 hour range time per month the municipality would shell out $12,480 a year.
For just the school district’s contribution of $300,000 to the new municipal range, we could send 52 officers to Bridgeville for 24 years.
How many times do officers typically practice shooting? Has anyone analyzed the need? Do officers bear some responsibility on their own to stay proficient in their craft? Is it outrageous to suggest they can afford to buy hours on their own?
What do police do in other communities for target practice? Where do they shoot?
As for the district’s rifle team, they’ve been getting along alright using the Mt. Lebanon Gun Club. Again where do other district’s send their rifle teams to practice? Surely not every HS has a range.
As for D Jones comment, I agree with him somewhat. We have deer psychosis, we have gun psychosis, on-street parking psychosis, and fear of neighbors putting out too many garbage bags.
To paulbark I’ve offered what I think is an economic solution for police training and the school district rifle team and also reduces gun fire in the municipality. What do you think?
3:09--
If, indeed, we in Mt. Lebo have "gun psychosis", one step toward a remedy would be to take up your suggestion for out-of-Lebo firing ranges for rent.
3:09’s idea seems like a win for everybody.
The gun haters get shooting out of the community.
The police get a nearby range to practice in.
The rifle team continues to exist for those students that are interested.
The municipality saves money not building a range, eliminating maintenance, insurance and monitoring and the school district gets to keep $300,000 in the bank.
Everybody should be happy!
Not to mention we taxpayers don’t have to build, maintain, insure and keep tabs on a range.
I’d like someone in the know what other neighboring communities do to keep their officers proficient marksman?
Everybody should be happy except for the municipal engineer, the construction firm that’ll not get the project and of course the bankers.
Pittsburgh Police practice at various private firing ranges. Yes, the departments usually require a certain number of hours per year per cop at the range. Not sure how they keep track of that. I don't remember if the Pgh. police training center had a range. I think only an outdoor range. Pittsburgh has a little under 1,000 cops.
Surely a small, 50-member police dept like Mt.Lebanon's does not need its own firing range. That's ridiculous.
The School District forking over $300,000.00 PLUS an annual financial contribution so the twenty kids on the rifle team can use this facility for a couple of months a year is a foolish use of education dollars.
Anonymous - I think you've provided an excellent analysis of the situation. I see nothing to support Mt. Lebanon and our school district investing hundreds of thousands of dollars for our own firing range. The economics, as you detailed, do not support that approach.
If someone can make an argument as to why having our own firing range is better for us, economically, please make that case. We need to do this rationally, based on a desire to do what's economically best for our community. This isn't about pro-gun or anti-gun. It's purely an economic issue.
Thank you Paulbark. Here’s another idea. That $300,000 the district doesn’t spend on their share of a municipal range they could do something really imaginative like use a portion of it to get that much ahead of their pension obligations or pay off some debt.
The municipality could say, use a portion of their saving testing a trust for the police and fireman or their families should one get hurt on the job.
The last thing we need is for someone to get excited and say we now have that hard to find $300,000 to put towards... I won’t write it, Elaine!
Let's stop and take a deep breath. What would happen if the school district doesn't cough up $300,000? Keith McGill claims that they don't need the money. So what happens? The municipality will tell our kids that they aren't allowed to use the rifle range?
That will go over big.
Elaine
The point is that neither the municipality nor the school district needs to invest anything in a Mt. Lebanon shooting range!
Governing is about priorities. Personally, I bet paving streets, the library or more recreational/environmental programming would be FAR more valued by the taxpayers than a $1,500,000 gun range for a tiny police department that could easily train elsewhere for a fraction of the cost. The Commissioners are being conned by the Municipal staff. Again. Bad governance.
“McGill said about municipal resources, “and we’re looking for the school district to partner because we’ll create one facility that meets the needs of both groups.”
So, when was it established that the only avenue to meeting the needs of both groups is to build a 5,400 sq ft range IN Mt. Lebanon?
As 3:09 suggest there are practical and economical alternatives that will meet both groups needs just as well. Other municipalities do it. Apparently the City of Pittsburgh does too.
Exactly 12:32!
There is no need for priorities in Mt. Lebanon 12:32.
Don’t you know every resident is extremely wealthy and their pockets are bottomless.
I’d be happy if they keep the streets plowed and ice free like Dormont, Scott and Caste Shannon do.
I have to chuckle at some of these comments.
Do any of you know how much of the Municipality’s annual budget is applied to our “tiny” police force? About $10 million, or just over 31% of ever dollar spent by the Municipality. About 4% more than public works. And ask yourself why that is?
As I see it, we value public safety over just about everything else. And it shows.
Also, if you want the officers to go elsewhere to train in their spare time, please remember to factor in overtime and mileage for 40+ officers from now until the end of time. And be sure to expect it to be raised during the negotiation of the next collective bargaining agreement.
In my opinion, our police and fire departments are the most important expenditures in our municipal. Our police officers and our fire fighters (they make up about 10% of the annual budget) are the most valued and critical employees on the municipal ledger. If our public safety department does not remain second to none, it really doesn’t matter how often your streets are plowed or what your fields look like.
9:10 AM, doesn't the police department have a firing range at Public Works already?
Elaine
Yes, but the qualification testing and other certifications require a 25 yd range. Our current facility is not that long so the officers are already leaving Lebo for some of their training and certifications.
9:10, are you trying to insinuate that we don’t appreciate our police officers and firemen?
I believe I read somewhere, perhaps on this blog, that many of our officers are making six figure salaries which far above the national and state average.
Really, we have to pay these professionals mileage and overtime for them to hone their skills? Many professionals in many fields spend a good deal of their own time and money keeping themselves proficient simply because it is in their best interest to do so.
It wasn’t so many months ago I saw in the news that a western PA police officer was killed in the line of duty and he was making around $40,000/year.
“Nationally, according to Salary.com, uniformed patrol officers earn a median annual salary of $52,587 nationally. There were 27,250 police and sheriff's patrol officers working in the state of Pennsylvania in 2013, earning an annual average salary of $61,200, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.Aug 15, 2015
9:45, far as I know Mt. Lebanon is unique I’m having a range at all.
Please tell us, what do USC, Bethel, Fox Chapel, Sewickley, Wexford police officers do for practice and qualifying?
Can you tell us what these communities budget per officer per year? Then compare that to what we’d be paying per officer for our new private range?
I’m betting if a municipal range were as economically sound as you are trying to portray USC and other affluent communities would have their own ranges!
The truth lies in numbers.
And 9:10, if those roads don’t get plowed, the streets maintained so that the people can get to their jobs and local businesses move their products pay those police salaries?
If we don’t maintain our fields, our schools, the infrastructure how do we turn over housing to attract new families, new businesses, new patrons.
It’s a fine balance and once the scale gets weighted on one end or the other the balance tilts too far and the whole thing toppled over.
I have no idea how other communities hire, pay and train their officers, and frankly don’t care. I live in Mt. Lebanon. My comments were directed to the suggestions that our “tiny” police force isn’t worth such an investment. It’s not tiny at all. The truth is that our public safety departments consume nearly 50% of the overall budget in this community. I find that investment to be worthwhile. Extremely worthwhile! If you don’t, that’s your opinion. If you think it’s too much, or not worthy of additional funding, that’s fine too. I’m glad we spend a lot, and maybe even overspend, for Public Safety. A new range every 40 years is simply a part of that overall investment.
Its a complete waste of money. Just a vanity project for the Municipal staff. Careful. You just might have to layoff an officer or two at some point to pay for it.
So 11:50, are you claiming that without a new range our officers won’t keep us safe and sound?
That this community is so fragile that it will cease to be Mt. Lebanon for want of a place to target shoot?
Nonsense!
While googling the definition of myopic this came up first. It fits 11:50 to a T.
They don’t care what is happening in the world around them, all they care about is their own little bubble! They are about as shortsighted and lacking foresight and intellectual insight as anyone can be.
What is really pathetic is they think they are smarter than everyone else.
Or just protecting their own turf.
my·op·ic
ˌmīˈäpik/Submit
adjective
nearsighted.
synonyms: nearsighted; shortsighted
"a myopic patient"
lacking imagination, foresight, or intellectual insight.
"the government still has a myopic attitude to public spending"
Did anyone else read 9:10’s comment as a thinly veiled threat?
“Also, if you want the officers to go elsewhere to train in their spare time, please remember to factor in overtime and mileage for 40+ officers from now until the end of time. And be sure to expect it to be raised during the negotiation of the next collective bargaining agreement.”
So, if we don’t build the $1.5 million range we’ll pay for it at the collective bargaining table!
How does 9:10 know the officers will want to negotiate that?
Perhaps the officers will want to pursue a job with one of those other communities that don’t have shooting ranges either.
By the way the Bridgeville shooting range is about 5 Miles from the Mt. Lebanon Police Dept building. The IRS business mileage rate for 2017 was 53.5¢. So, give the officers the $5.30 mile reimbursement to get to the range. More than we should considering it’s about a mile to Public Works, but who wants to quibble over a buck or two.
O/T for meeting qualifications to keep their job? No way!
The comment that says "I’m glad we spend a lot, and maybe even overspend, for Public Safety" says it all. It's like those who aren't bothered by waste in our military budget, which is gigantic.
Government needs to be responsible in their spending in EVERY aspect. We don't exempt Public Safety or the Military from their responsibility to be wise in how they spend taxpayer money.
The comment "I have no idea how other communities hire, pay and train their officers, and frankly don’t care" says a lot, too. What this person is saying is, even if other communities have found a smarter way to handle this issue, I don't want to know about it. I guess ignorance is bliss.
I, on the other hand, believe we can examine how others handle this to consider whether it makes sense for Mt. Lebanon to do the same. How can anyone believe otherwise?
So if I’m the myopic, ignorant resident, I trust all of your broad thinking, smart information seekers will circulate your detailed reports on how all of the other surrounding municipalities handle these things. I’ll wait right here. Unless you want Elaine to do it.....just like everything else.
Wait a minute 6:31, before you wrote “I have no idea how other communities hire, pay and train their officers, and frankly don’t care.” But now you do care and want people to research it. Quite a flip flop!
One contributor here laid out a pretty feasible and rational plan that solves paying for training for our officers. Several people endorse the idea and one believes the Pittsburgh PD handles gun training at public facilities.
This taxpayer isn’t going to do the leg work for our well-paid municipal employees to prove if other police have their own ranges or how much they pay their police to meet their training & qualification requirements.
If you want to pay me a rate similar to what McGill or staffers make, I’ll be glad to do the research and report it publically.
It isn’t Elaine’s job either.
Oh, by the way 6:31, if the shoe fits wear it.
By the very definition of ignorant - “lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.
synonyms: without knowledge of, unaware of, unconscious of, oblivious to, incognizant of, unfamiliar with, unacquainted with, uninformed about, ill-informed about, unenlightened about, unconversant with, inexperienced in/with, naive about, green about;” you pretty much proved the label when you wrote: “ “I have no idea how other communities hire, pay and train their officers, and frankly don’t care.”
If the Municipal staff had a clue they would have already spoken to the surrounding police departments and obtained formal, written agreements to share the cost rather than swallow the ENTIRE $1.4 million. If they had a clue.
Excellent point, 8:08.
7:36, please Google “sarcasm”.
If you’ll Google “waste”, 8:49!
So in attempt to get the “discussion” back on track... the municpality is on verge of building a new police department shooting range at the Public Works site for $1.4 million dollars. The school district that deleted its on shooting range for its rifle team appears to be open to contributing $300,000 to the project as a practice/event replacement location for its rifle team students.
On that subject board member Lebowitz seems to think $300,000 is hard for the district to come by.
A comment has been made here that there may be a practical and fiscally responsible alternative to this project located nearby.
There is a privately-owned shooting facility just a short 5 miles away in Bridgeville that offers special rates to police and military personnel. It looks like it offers everything the proposed municipal range would have. It may or may not meet the requirements of the school shooting team, but the team already has a location that has been serving it for 6 years.
The question then becomes... do we build our own shooting range with public money for $1.4 million with it’s annual maintenance and operation overhead or do we allocate an infinitely smaller annual outlay to send our police and students to private facilities?
Wait, there is now a third option. Do we embark on an effort to get area communities to commit to contracts where they pay Mt. Lebanon for range time for their police departments and school rifle teams?
Perhaps we also include public shooting at the range much like our tennis courts, ice rink, and golf course?
How do we get the commissioners and manager to analyze the 3 options to build a public consensus before committing to one option or the other.
It seems Municipal Manager McGill already has his mind made up, but do we taxpayers- that will foot the build whichever option is used- want to have a say.
There’s a 4th option and that is to not have the municipality or school district have anything to do with shooting ranges. No school rifle team and our police officers are left to their own devices to meet the shooting qualifications their job requires.
9:25, this is where I chuckle. I love all of the false bravado and activism of the bloggers. Everyone has objections. Everyone has opinions on how best to run the Municipality and spend taxpayer dollars. BUT NO ONE DOES ANYTHING.
I was at the Board Discussion and the Commission meeting last week, during which the Commission discussed the project, allotted time for citizens comments and took a vote to proceed with certain aspects of the project. Not a single resident had the time or inclination to attend the Commssion meeting and voice an opinion. Imagine that....you guys are all wound up about (as you describe it) this tremendous waste, this silly decision, whatever you want to call it, but NOT ONE of you showed up to speak out. NOT ONE. Don’t tell me that you watched on TV or sent an email. Everyone in this community knows that the only way to get action is to show up, in a group, and take the commissioners to task. Regardless of the issue, it is become brutally obvious over the last 10 years that these people only listen to different sides of an issue when large numbers of people show up. While some people may argue that a large opposition did nothing to impact the decision on deer, no one can disagree that that the opposition to the cull absolutely extended the debate for many, many months. Regardless of which outcome you favor, the only way to move the needle on any commission decision is to show up and present your position. And you better not come alone. Bickering here does nothing. Elaine can certainly confirm that for all of us.
You got that right, 10:31 AM. It is embarrassing for me when readers debate something that has already been approved. Where were they? I posted the article from The Almanac where it clearly stated that the firing range was approved. IT WAS APPROVED! What I am upset with is that Timmy is rolling over and willing to dish out $300,000 for the very small rifle team can use it. What are the other groups required to dish out? NOTHING. Keith McGill said that there is general consensus to give up $300,000. There is no such thing. No vote has been taken. Why should the school district spend $300,000 on something that has already been funded on the municipal side? That $300,000 can then go in the unassigned funds to be used any way the commission majority wants to do. I am livid that Timmy just goes along with everything the municipality says. He sends out letters announcing how the municipality will have active shooters in undisclosed locations thirty minutes after elementary school children are dismissed from school. For that, I get personal attacks on Nextdoor. On Mt. Lebanon Facebook groups. I see the comments that were removed and believe me, I am thankful that the administrators deleted them as soon as they were submitted.
Everyone is an expert. Nobody does any work. They just like to bitch here after the fact. Anonymously. I am always sticking my neck out - hoping to make a difference and then it turns around and bites me.
You are absolutely right, 10:31 AM.
Elaine
Absolutely agree, 100% with your comment 10:31, but as we seen in the one or two individuals showing up at board and commission meetings achieves squat.
A 4,000 signature petition failed to change anything on the HS project and even one or two passionate volunteers managing to gain office failed to make changes.
I think your best observation is to show up to argue for a specific solution is to come with a group. A group that is well-versed in using the media and capable of presenting/defending all the positives of that plan.
That is what the deer culling proponents, what the “sports cabal” have done so well. They know it only takes a few people to look like there is a consensus for their goal.
They have a lot of influence in the PIO, and you can see how McGill is using THE ALMANAC to skew the public perception that there is a consensus favoring the new range.
Elaine, states accurately that the commission has already approved the PW plan. True. They had approved the golf course plan until a group (with some legal power admittedly) stopped it. Question is do taxpayers have any power to change things? If we stop the school district from committing their $300,000+ and rifle team to the range the municipality is going to look pretty silly building a $1.4 million training facility for a “tiny” police force. Is the public is constantly reminded it could have a huge impact on future elections.
Just reading the comments here on this blog, it appears 3 or 4 people believe the use of the Bridgeville shooting range is a feasible alternative. It looks like just one favors the $1.4 million plan.
Do that accurately represent the community at large, who knows?
The $1.4 million question as you so eloquently point out 10:31, is getting the commissioners to present the positives & negatives to each range solution.
After being involved in several committee efforts, how we take that first step eludes me.
Who is an group organizer?
How about YOU being an group organizer?
Elaine
Ah yes, every debated issue in this community always comes back to the 4000 signatures. The first thing you need to understand when it comes to local government is that you’re not going to be successful on every issue. Being on the wrong side of a vote doesn’t mean the system is broken. Not to mention, you get a lot more credibility down the road when you show up on more than one issue. I’ve been to more school board and commission meetings over the last 10 years than I care to admit, and very, very rarely do I see anyone other than the same 10 people. And frankly, it’s more like the same five people. I think in large measure that is due to the fact that people in Mount Lebanon are generally happy with how things are run. It certainly strikes a chord with me (and I’m sure our elected officials) when the same small handful seem to be the only ones who are upset.
Amen!!!
not that it’ll make any difference, but interesting nonetheless.
If we go with a 50 member police department and a 40 year shooting range lifespan, the numbers don’t favor a municipal range over using the Bridgeville facility.
50 officers x 40 years = 2,000 Officers
$1,400,000 / 2,000 = $700 per officer per year
Consider also that the initial $1,400,000 price tag does not included heating & cooling the 5,400 sq ft range, electricity, upkeep & maintenance, or insurance.
Spending $200-300 annually to send officers to the Bridgeville range makes more fiscal sense.
Add $100-200 into a trust that can grow over 20 years would make a nice retirement “gift” for each of our officers when they retire and the community would still be a head of the game.
Elaine, as you know I’ve tried many times before and failed. I’ll get involved, do everything in my power to pull with the group and stand together to make something happen, but as an organizer I’ll be the first to admit I’ve been less than successful. May have influence a couple of minor things on various issues but that is up to others to decide if my input made a difference.
You wrote a comment in another post: “I appreciate your tenacity, but nothing is going to change people's minds. You saw it with the high school renovation. Same group of people, 10:05 AM.”
With that in mind........🤷🏻♂️
OMG, let it go! The firing range is a done deal. What ISN'T a done deal is Keith McGill getting his filthy little hands on $300,000 of the school district's money. We have already been taxed on that, Keith. Now you want us to be taxed TWICE for the same project!!!
I seriously don't see how people are against that logic. I am not going to be taxed twice for the same firing range.
Elaine
I'm really cranky today. With that said, no emojis please. Not everyone can see what they are.
Elaine
My pending comments showed that 12:56 PM's "Amen" was in response to my 12:38 PM comment. Please reference your approval or disproval to the comment you are responding to. It doesn't show up when they are published. Thanks.
Elaine
Hope I’m not adding to your crankiness but I don’t understand your comment: “OMG, let it go! The firing range is a done deal. What ISN'T a done deal is Keith McGill getting his filthy little hands on $300,000 of the school district's money. We have already been taxed on that, Keith. Now you want us to be taxed TWICE for the same project!!!”
If the district puts $300,000 into the range construction how are we being taxed twice? I assumed the district’s $300,000 would reduce the municipality’s $1,400,000 to $1,100,000.
The district got their $300,000 thru taxes, or fundraising or grants and the municipality gets their $1.1 million thru taxes, fundraising, grants or whatever. Is there some taxing hocus locus going on residents aren’t aware of?
As far as organizing an effort, I’m available most evenings to meet with like-minded individuals at a coffee shop, Galleria, library. Let’s get started to make something happen.
Just wondering what ‘Amen’ proposes we do to either the SD’s $300,000 aside from letting the board know our thoughts.
2:30 PM, try to follow along. The municipality already has the money. How do you think they got it? They don't need the $300,000. Keith has already admitted that in his email. So why is he expecting the district to kick in $300,000? Why didn't he ask for it before the muni got the money? This is the muni dipping into the school budget. Where do you think the school district is pulling the money? From the budget. Where does THAT money come from? Taxpayers.
Yes, you are adding to my crankiness. You keep writing about the police. It is a done deal. As the commenter said before, NOBODY came to the commission meeting. It won't be pretty if I show up at a commission meeting because they cost me thousands of dollars fighting the PA Office of Open Records' decision. My days of going to those meetings are long gone. I have no respect for the legal system who make exceptions for our elected officials, including local magistrates and their next door neighbors. But I digress.
I know it is a difficult concept to grasp, but the municipality borrows money for all their projects. There is no reason to gouge our students too.
Elaine
Understood that McGill doesn’t need the $300,000 to proceed with the range. That was obvious Understood that McGill doesn’t need the $300,000 to proceed with the range, he’s quoted as saying as much in the recent Almanac article.
Again, if $1.4 million in municipal money is already earmarked for the range what is the school district’s $300,000 to be used for?
Let’s approach it from a different angle. Should the district get to use the shooting facility for free?
I’m not trying to be argumentative just trying to dig into the specifics of another large taxpayer expenditure.
Do I expect to win something, hell no, haven’t yet so there’s no reason to believe that’ll change anytime soon.
Do hope that your blog is influential enough that people begin to pay closer attention to where their tax dollars are going. Maybe they’ll vote in numbers larger than 20-30%.
I was glad to see a couple of new (?) people, one named and maybe one anonymous join in a Lebocitizen post. Perhaps they’ll be talking to a couple of more people and get them to read your very informative blog.
Taxpayer dollars built and maintain the high school parking lot, but the district has no qualms charging the students a fee to park on it.
Taxpayer dollars built and maintain our streets, the municipality has no qualm proposing overnight parking fees (a fee is a tax) to park on them.
Unfortunately, that is how our local government is working and we’ll probably see plenty more double taxing down the road.
Here we go again. Wait until the next election. I have heard this for almost eight years. Here is an opportunity to make a difference. And now we are hoping that more people will vote in the next election.
Seriously, I am tired of the excuses. There will be a school board meeting on Feb. 26 at 7:30 PM. On the same night, there will be a commission meeting starting at 8:00. Take your pick. Or you can plan to get a group at a coffee shop, the Galleria, or the library and strategize. Nick and I met once a month at Carbonara's and collaborated. It worked well.
Or you and everyone else can sit at your computers and lament.
Elaine
Though the commission approved the plans and location for the range, they still have the ability to approve or deny the contractors who will construct the building. This allows for the public to share their views of the plan.
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