Friday, February 16, 2018

Yet another important message from the Superintendent

From: Dr. Timothy Steinhauer [mailto:noreply@mtlsd.net]
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 6:20 PM
To: Mt. Lebanon Parents
Subject: ***Important Message from the Superintendent ***

Dear Mt. Lebanon Parents,


I am writing to inform you that as Jefferson Middle School students were leaving school at the end of the day today, a 7th grade student was overheard saying he was going to “shoot up the school.” Students informed the principals, and the Mt. Lebanon Police Department was immediately contacted.
 
At this time, the MLPD indicated that no imminent threat exists.  Due to the serious nature of the comment, the MLPD are still investigating and may take further action.  Appropriate school disciplinary measures aligned to the student code of conduct will be applied. Due to student confidentiality laws, we cannot release specific information pertaining to the student or disciplinary action taken.  
 
The safety and security of the entire school community is a priority for us, and we will continue to aggressively pursue comments and behavior that threaten our students or schools.
 
Please feel free to contact your child’s principal or me if you have any concerns.
 
Sincerely,

 
Timothy J. Steinhauer
Superintendent

64 comments:

Anonymous said...

Tonight’s televised debate for the PA18 showed that both Saccone and Lamb oppose any restrictions on the AR-15 assault weapon—-the weapon used in last week’s mass murder at a high school in Florida. That is disgraceful. #NEVER AGAIN

Lebo Citizens said...

I knew that Lamb was opposed, but hadn't heard what Saccone's views were. Yes, disgraceful. Can we get someone to run in November who is opposed? The gun store in FL that sold the AR-15 has closed.

For those of you on Nextdoor, you know it has been an ugly couple of days.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

I noted that too. How awful. Saccone clearly won the debate. Both of their positive views on big guns made me sick. I agree 10:00.
#never again

Anonymous said...

Do the people on Nextdoor know how wimpy Lamb and Saccone are on gun control?

Anonymous said...

Both Lamb and Saccone are anti-abortion. They are entitled to that opinion. Both started the debate by saying that they oppose any ban on assault weapons. Minutes later, when Lamb said he believes that “life begins at conception” I wanted to shout out “and it can be ended quickly with one round by an AR-15.” In the classroom. Shame on Lamb.

Lebo Citizens said...

Full disclosure. I did not watch the debate. I know that Lamb is pro fracking, anti abortion, and opposes any bans on assault weapons. He sounds like a...a...a Republican! I wonder how many D's will be taking down his yard signs today.
Elaine

Lebo Citizens said...

10:13 AM, I am reasonably sure that the "ugly" part of Nextdoor would be thrilled with the news. An Outlook Drive resident/troll on this blog wrote this to a person who doesn't believe in keeping a gun in his house. "...as a former Marine officer that served four years, and with two sons serving right now, we do it to keep people safe and also allow them to have the freedom to express weak, stupid opinions, like yours.

We have a term for soft people like you...we call you freedom leachers. So, be safe, and thank god there are people out there that sacrifice and keep people like you safe."
Then someone reported me as being hurtful. This same troll wrote:
"Whats the matter Elaine? Someone using your tactics against you? Ms. LEAD? For the record, it was not me. But, the thing I have noticed over the last couple of years is that it is ALWAYS you that stirs up this site. You are a self-appointed community watchdog that chases windmills and conspiracy stories and all it does is to breed dissension in this community. May I suggest you keep your postings to your blog so that the 10 or so residents that follow you can enjoy them?"

Brian went on with his personal attacks. "..., kudos to your dad. I agree, he was a hero and his actions outshone mine.

But, you did not serve, did you? I'm sure your War Hero dad proudly bragged about his War Protester son at the VFW. Sure, he supported your rights to your own opinions, that's what parents should do. But, proud? I doubt it.

So, you are really not in a position to talk about what the military believes. You lost me at "Vietnam Protester."

So, tell you what, Hanoi Paul, put on a Joan Baez song, smoke some weed, watch some old Jane Fonda movies and think about how horrible this country is.

Vietnam protester. Enough said."

This troll actually signed his name to this crap! Fortunately, his comments were removed from the feed.

I guess the politicians don't want to lose these macho men's votes and will continue to permit assault weapons to be sold. AR-15's are only used to kill people. Lots of them.

I get in trouble when I bring up the fact that right now, active shooters are in undisclosed areas in Mt. Lebanon, starting thirty minutes after elementary school kids are dismissed from school. Our manager and school superintendent only tell us to stay on sidewalks and not cut through private properties. Sidewalks.
Elaine


Anonymous said...

Lamb sure does sound like a Republican. I don't mean that in a way to bash Republicans. My point is that Conor Lamb is no Democrat.

Anonymous said...

Here we go again with the "AR-15 is the problem" discussion.

The problem isn't guns. People in the U.S. have owned firearms for almost three centuries. Only in the last two decades has the mass shooting phenomenon become prolific, and primarily by young white males. Instead of going after the means of their actions, maybe people should ask what's at the root, what is behind the behavior? My theory is twofold--culture and bad parenting.

In the last 20 years, video games have become more graphic and more violent. Gone are the days of a cartoonish Donkey Kong. Now kids can get online and play first person games that allow them to beat people with bats and shoot them using a variety of weapons. Grand Theft Auto offers missions throughout their games which include killing police and large numbers of random people. Rap music glorifies the "gangsta" lifestyle. The irony is, rarely do urban black kids, those who actually live that life, end up being mass murderers. And that all leads to my second point.

Since the late 80s, parents have eased up on discipline. It's become much more important to be a friend to your child instead of a mentor or leader. The latest generation, including those kids in Florida being used as political pawns, was born right around the time of 9/11. Through no fault of their own, they have no frame of reference when it comes to measuring evil. That's where parents SHOULD step in but don't. They should impart life lessons on their children. The term "snowflake" has been overused but it still applies. Kids are so easily offended that parents, it seems, are afraid to erect boundaries and use the word "no".

Now to be fair, in the case of the Florida shooter, he apparently did live in a house that had established rules. But just like any other criminal, he ignored those rules and did what he wanted, just like people who illegally obtain guns in countries where there are very strict controls in place.Let's not forget the dozens of interactions the kid had with law enforcement, and the failure of the FBI to do their job after being handed evidence of a direct and credible threat.

Guns are not the issue. Our society needs to start getting back to the basics with raising our kids. Parents need to be knee-deep in their childrens' affairs, cut out the video games, and encourage positive behavior. If big bad guns were the root cause, wouldn't millions of gun owners be committing the same acts?

I watched the debate and thought it was interesting that the two were aligned on guns. Of course, since Lamb is still a member of the reserves, he couldn't say anything else nor do I think he would.

Anonymous said...

Guns ARE the issue. Please read this article and get up to speed:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share

Anonymous said...

What does Lamb's military reserve status have to do with whether assault-type weapons should legally be sold to members of the general public? Nothing, I suggest.

Lebo Citizens said...

Teachers should not be human shields. Eight year olds should not be crying because their light up shoes might alert shooters of their hiding places. School superintendents should not be sending out notices that lethal weapons are being used to kill deer seven months out of the year. We should not be told by the police that "sharpshooters" are not in the area where gun fire is heard. Our superintendent should be more sensitive to active shooters starting thirty minutes after elementary school students are dismissed from school. Certainly, the PA Supreme Court doesn't seem to think it is a problem.
We have a gun problem and it starts with our local officials.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

To 10:23, that wrote “I wanted to shout out “and it can be ended quickly with one round by an AR-15.” In the classroom. Shame on Lamb.”

You are right 10:23, it only takes one round or even one knife blade. One round from a snub-nosed revolver is capable of snuffing out a life in the classroom just as quickly as an AR-15.

Have you considered that a revolver or any other handgun- semi-auto or not, knife, boxcutter, bomb can be easily concealed in a waistband under a shirt, strapped to an ankle or put in a book or backpack and carried into the school far easier than the long gun.

At least with the AR-15 there is a slightly better chance someone will spot the long gun before it gets into the classroom.

Remember also, it was a citizen armed with an AR-15 that chased off the Texas church shooter that killed 26 people and wounded 20 others.

Both Lamb and Saccone made sense regarding the AR-15 ban in my opinion.

Lebo Citizens said...

So how does your statement comfort parents, 9:32 AM?

I keep bringing it back locally, and nobody wants to acknowledge that we have a problem here.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

Perhaps 10:23, the answer lies not with banning guns, but as both candidates suggested addressing the mental health and mindset of people that find killing people a solution to something.

I find social media that suggest Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton (pick your poison) should go F or hang themselves, Hollywood glorification of gun play and avenging Superhero’s, video shooting games that allow the player to ravage the landscape and then walk away, and last but not least religious, gender or ethnic fanaticism is more responsible for driving individuals to resort to shooting than what type of weapon is used.

Listening to both Lamb and Saccone, I believe they both think fixing people’s attitudes and social philosophies is the most effective course of action.

Anonymous said...

Elaine, how does banning AR-15s comfort parents, locally or nationally?

I agree with you that shooting deer in Mt. Lebanon’s congested neighborhoods and near school grounds shouldn’t be happening, but they’ll just switch to bows and arrows, trap and bolt, or just used a bolt-action rifle.

The .30-06 bullet or arrow is just as lethal as the .223 from an AR-15.

Anonymous said...

Elaine, I think you lose a lot of traction on the issue of gun control when you try equate school shootings with an organized, highly structured deer cull. It makes no sense.

Lebo Citizens said...

11:38 AM, I get that. How else can residents rationalize warnings from our superintendent that lethal weapons are being discharged in undisclosed areas for seven months out of the year. It defies logic.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

917, Lol. I did read the article, and then felt so much dumber for having done so. Geez, just go full-on leftie next time and quote Salon.
.That piece was poorly written and offered nothing in terms of a credible argument. But someone like you isn't interested in fact. You, like the Times and the anti-gun crowd, are more interested in feelings and lashing out at something with which you disagree. Or maybe you've never fired a gun and it scares you.

Gun ownership is a right. I know the Moms Demand something group and liberal lunatics try to "interpret" the 2nd amendment as something different but it's pretty clear. The language was inserted as a means of allowing the regular citizen the means to rise up when government crosses the line. Apparently, Pennsylvania agrees.
Pennsylvania state Constitution, Article 1, Section 21: "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned".

Comparing the U.S. to other nations in terms of gun ownership is silly. Of course we're different. So what? If I wanted to be like Japan or Switzerland, I would live there.

And again, I will ask--what has changed? People have owned guns for three centuries. So what has changed? You can longer buy a fully automatic weapon, you can't buy through the mail (as some of our parents did), you now have to submit to a criminal background check, some states impose a waiting period, you can no longer just go buy someone a gun as a gift and on and on.
So legal access to a gun has become more difficult but guns are the problem? Uh...no.
England enacted some of the toughest gun control restrictions in the world. Guess what happened? Crime with "banned" weapons went up. Duh. Same thing happened in the U.S. during the "assault weapons" ban. Crime went up. And for the record, there is no such thing as an assault weapon.

It's painfully naive to think that banning a particular gun or even all guns would thrust our country into some Kumbaya-singing panacea of harmony. That's also dangerous because, as stated above, once you disarm law-abiding people, the only people armed will be criminals.

Most mass shootings happen in places where law-abiding citizens are prohibited from carrying firearms. Not to be too obvious but criminals don't follow laws.

I mentioned Lamb's reserve status to highlight common sense.He's in a Marine reserve company. What is it you think the Marine Corps does? Of course he won't say he opposes guns.
As for selling AR-15s, it's not up to you or someone in D.C. to dictate my options when it comes to providing for my own defense. 99.9 percent of people who legally obtain and own guns do so responsibly. You don't ban an item because less than one percent of a group misusing it. If that were the case, Sudafed would already be unavailable. And alcohol. And Tide pods.

The solution at this point is A-better parenting, meaning clamping down on kids' behaviors, and B--proactive defensive measures in schools, like armed security. The guns already exist. Wishing them away is not an answer.

Anonymous said...

12:12,

You have way too much time on your hands.

Anonymous said...

This makes more sense to me than a ban on AR-15s.

“Eighteen states are considering versions of "red flag" laws already in place in five states that would authorize taking firearms away from people who qualify as "extreme risk" in the aftermath of the shooting deaths of 17 people by an expelled student at a Florida high school Wednesday. "It's classic risk management to get the guns out of the hands that are struggling with a mental health crisis or have made threats to use their guns," said Ingham County, Mich., Sheriff Scott Wriggelsworth.”

It does have its share of problems though with constitution rights and misuse.

The gun violence and safe schools are difficult issues and I hope which ever candidate wins that they use clear heads rather than raw emotions to try and solve the violence.

Lebo Citizens said...

if I am reading this correctly, we're only going to have Saccone or Lamb until the end of the year. We will be in the new 17th District represented by Keith Rothfus. https://observer-reporter.com/ap/national/pennsylvania-court-issues-overhauled-congressional-map/article_77a7d274-5bfb-55c7-b601-5f77c44619ad.html
Elaine

Anonymous said...

Correct, if the new map stands. I think the earlier map, drawn by the Repubs in the legislature, had us in Mike Doyle's district. I was okay with that but didn't know much about the remainder of the map. Yes, in this new version, which will be met with lawsuits from Republicans, Mt. Lebanon will be in the 17th, currently represented by Keith Rothfus. Saccone would not be able to run for that seat. He will be in a different district. However, we may still be stuck with Lamb if he attempts to run in the primary and later, in the general, presumably against Rothfus. The March 13 special election is only for the purpose of electing a person to serve out the remainder of Tim Murphy's term.

I can't take another campaign for Lamb.

Anonymous said...

4:28---

People with mental health issues are far more dangerous to themselves than others. Mental health is NOT the issue. Guns are the problem.

Anonymous said...

Got it 8:08, 19 year olds that tweet they want to shot up schools and cut themselves then go out and kill their classmates are normal every day people.
The AR-15 just jumped Into their hands and started spraying bullets.

Anonymous said...

Then there is this out of Florida, 8:08.

“Sheriff’s deputies in Hillsborough County, Florida, arrested a “certified MS-13 gang member” after he allegedly brandished an AK-47 in the middle of a road in an attempt to stop traffic. The gang member is a previously convicted felon who could not legally own or possess the weapon.”

The law states he was forbidden to posses a weapon! The ban worked well didn’t it.

Anonymous said...

Maryland views assault weapons as weapons of war:
We took action in MD and the 4th Cir. Ct of Appeals upheld our law saying that assault rifles are weapons of war and not protected by 2nd Amendment.

According to:
AG of MD, Brian Frosh

-Mary E

Anonymous said...

Maryland’s law wasn’t very effective in stopping murders.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/court-upholds-marylands-irrational-feel-good-gun-law/article/2615467

Lebo Citizens said...

Why are you doing this, 8:21 AM? Are we going to get police blotters from all over the US?
Elaine

Lebo Citizens said...

How many are prevented? Is there a number out there that suits you? If it saves one life, is it worth it to you? I guess not.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

No you’re not going to get police blotters from around the country. The point is, and I think both Lamb and Saccone made this very clear, that knee jerk reactions are not the answer to gun problems.

I think Trump’s memorandum to ban bump stocks is a rational step to eliminate mass shootings like the one that occurred in Las Vegas.
I happened to think that laws outlawing large capacity magazines make very good sense, after all who needs a fifteen or thirty rounds when hunting or target shooting.

Many states had such bans, but one needs to examine why states like California let theirs lapse.

It’s time to really address the gun issue, ban a weapon that was used in less than 1% of Maryland’s homicides in 2015 makes you feel good, have at it.

I go with either Lamb’s or Saccone’s position.

You ask if it’s saves one life is it worth it. Yes, it is, but if it makes everyone feel good that they’ve done something and they move on with out getting to the root of the problem, no it isn’t. What about working on something that stops the other 99% of homicides by guns?

Anonymous said...

Just as a point of reference regarding Maryland, that state has the 11th highest crime rate in the nation. "Assault weapons" have nothing to do with it.
Second, the media purposefully ignore thousands of reports every year about people who use all types of guns, including the "weapons of war" (hee, that's so dramatic) to defend themselves. Here are just a few examples.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/11/24-times-citizens-used-guns-to-save-lives/

There's no way to accurately calculate how many lives are spared due to defensive gun use but the last stat I saw noted 736,000 reported cases. And there are many thousands more that are not reported.

If you're againat guns, don't own one. Let people who are trained and responsible own them. But you don't have the right to prohibit something that is used responsibly by virtually every legal owner.

This debate is ridiculous. "Oh, the children!" Well, how many kids die due to drunk driving? Or overdoses? Do we ban cars? I mean, we could make it illegal for teenagers to consume alcohol and---nevermind.
And have we banned opiates yet, despite a much higher percentage of misuse and death? No.
Bans are not the answer. As stated above, this is about the basics--parenting and discipline, and emphasizing the value of life.

Anonymous said...

I’ll repeat.
“Seung-Hui Cho, a spree killer and mass murderer who killed 32 people and wounded 17 others armed with two semi-automatic pistols on April 16, 2007, at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia.”

If Virginia adopted Maryland’s assault rifle ban it would not have done one thing to stop the killing of 32 innocent people.

Anonymous said...

This debate is ridiculous. "Oh, the children!" Well, how many kids die due to drunk driving? Or overdoses? Do we ban cars? I mean, we could make it illegal for teenagers to consume alcohol and---nevermind. And have we banned opiates yet, despite a much higher percentage of misuse and death? No. Bans are not the answer. As stated above, this is about the basics--parenting and discipline, and emphasizing the value of life.

Insufferable. Let's take this one by one.

Well, how many kids die due to drunk driving?...Do we ban cars?

First, you're comparing a car whose primary use is transportation to guns whose primary use is killing. Second, no one is proposing banning guns. Second, we've not banned cars, but we've taken many steps to reduce drunk driving, including more enforcement and education. And guess what? We've reduced drunk driving deaths by half. Taking actions matter!

And have we banned opiates yet, despite a much higher percentage of misuse and death?

Thanks for making my point. Increased opiates result in more deaths, just as more guns result in more deaths.

[T]his is about the basics--parenting and discipline, and emphasizing the value of life.

I know you don't want to live in Japan, but Japanese children consume far more violent culture than American culture. And there are far fewer murders there than here.

I do agree that Americans should emphasize the value of life, and that means a more robust community safety net, whether single payer healthcare, extended parental leave, or universal basic income. Since all developed Western countries other than us enjoy fewer murders, and since you're convinced it's not the absence of guns at play in these countries, it must be our dearth of government benefits, right?

Or maybe we're heartless bastards? After all, the president's son just liked tweets attacking the victims of the Florida massacre. The President's a fighter, right? He has to hit back? To get even? Thin-skinned?

Sounds like a blogger I know...

Lebo Citizens said...

Let's bring this back to Mt. Lebanon, for a minute. Did you read the very important message from our Super super? A seventh grader at Jefferson Middle School was overheard saying that he was going to shoot up the school. What steps do you recommend to keep our "Oh the children" safe? Should the teachers be armed with guns? Should our schools have metal detectors? Have an armed police officer walk the halls of the ten schools? Have more active shooter drills in our schools? You're absolutely right. We have fire drills and we haven't banned matches. Shaking my head.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

just look at the most recent retweet, it looks like there will be a walkout!

Lebo Citizens said...

Good for them!
Elaine

Lebo Citizens said...

I would be happy to post the details, if the students wish to send them. EGillen476@aol.com Don't worry about anonymity. I will not pass on that information. I support you 100%.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

Good question, Elaine. You present a multitude of options, which preventative measures do you propose we implement? One specific one or all of them?

The biggest and best option to prevent this kid from shooting up the school is missing from your list... finding out what is causing this kid to decide that shooting up the school is an intelligent solution to his problems. Then convincing him there are better, more acceptable answers.

Lebo Citizens said...

I was being facetious, 10:46 AM. Do we have that conversation with that kid after he shoots? Or while he is ready to shoot? Shoot now and talk later? Do you think everyone announces their intentions? What do we do as a preventative measure? I can't continue this conversation any longer. I can't handle this nonsense. Say whatever you want. I'm sure you will come up with the best solution.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

"I know you don't want to live in Japan, but Japanese children consume far more violent culture than American culture. And there are far fewer murders there than here."

Where did you get that, they consume far more violent culture? Ha. Here, let me follow suit, "96 percent of accredited dentists believe unicorns can speak French."

And no idea what single-payer healthcare (socialized medicine) has to do with any of this. But you showed your hand. Must be Bernie supporter.

"Nobody is talking about banning guns." It's incremental. First, it's scary high-capacity magazines, then it's bump stocks (which were unknown to anyone in my circle of gun enthusiasts until the Las Vegas incident), then it will be something else arbitrary. Look at what's happening in California. The wackos got a legislative foothold and are eroding 2nd Amendment rights piece by piece. Meanwhile, magically, criminals still acquire guns illegally and use them to commit crime. Huh.

Should we arm teachers? Absolutely. Metal detectors? Yes. I don't understand the reluctance. We do it at airports, federal buildings, military bases, and other locations. Certain people want to complain about children being vulnerable because of one type of gun yet are not willing to take protective measures. That makes no sense.

Places like Lebo, just like the school in Florida, hold their noses in the air and try to pretend their community is somehow immune to evil. It might affect real estate values. Cynical? Yes, and true. And...I go back to the notion of parenting. There are a lot of spoiled kids in white suburbia. More discipline would only serve to make them better adults.

The only sensible idea I've seen is raising the minimum purchase age for rifles. But again, it won't matter if someone gets the gun through illegal means.

We can keep going around in circles but there's no point. I have my opinions, you all have yours. We won't convince each other.

Anonymous said...

Elaine, you wrote that a letter was sent out saying a kid was talking about shooting up the school.

Has he shot up the school, have any kids been killed?

So why would you ask a rediculous question asking if we should talk to them while they’re shooting or afterwards.

I wonder if we ban and confiscate every gun and the kid stabs a number of their fellow classmates like the Westmoreland kid did, what you’ll write. Ban knives!

I don’t claim to have all the answers like you, but I thought this blog was for discussing and debating issues pertinent to our community.

I just suggested interdiction before a gun event occurs is a better solution. Perhaps we need more social studies and philosophy programming in the schools for each and every student in an effort to prevent things like bullying and ethic/racial problems. That’ll take trained teachers and counselors and be money better spent than on Hall of Fames. It might draw out those troubled youth to connect with a teacher or counselor so they chose talk rather than desperate action.

Anonymous said...

If banning assault weapons for the general public, like the AR-15, saves one mass murderer from shooting up another classroom, the ban is worth it.

#NEVER AGAIN

Anonymous said...

You know what is ridiculous 11:56 ? You don't know how to spell the word ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

What is as just as ridiculous 12:25, as you try to marginalize and distract... you don’t put a space between a date and the ? punctuation mark. LOL

Anonymous said...

Where did you get that, they consume far more violent culture?

If only search engines existed.

And no idea what single-payer healthcare (socialized medicine) has to do with any of this.

If only I wrote what it had to do with it! Oh, I did. Your claim is that guns do not kill; rather, our rotten culture kills. Since guns aren't at issue, there must be another differentiator between our society with our high murder rates and all other Western democracies with their low murder rates. I suggested that the welfare state is that differentiator.

But you showed your hand. Must be Bernie supporter.

Oops, that's wrong! So you can't argue the facts, so you rely on a stereotype. Bummer.

"Nobody is talking about banning guns." It's incremental.
vs.
Metal detectors? Yes. I don't understand the reluctance. We do it at airports, federal buildings, military bases, and other locations.

Why not malls? Or churches? Or parks? We should all endure endless inconvenience for your well regulated militia.

We can keep going around in circles but there's no point.

Agreed. It's difficult to argue with anyone who doesn't bother reading.

Face facts: your hobby and the culture that surrounds it kills kids. I'm all for hunting and single bolt rifles. I'm ok with shotguns. I'm ok with revolvers. I lose the plot with semi-automatic "for my protection" or "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots" nonsense. Study after study has shown that unintended killings outnumber self protection. In 2012, there were 259 justifiable gun-related homicides and 548 fatal unintentional shootings.

If you're ok with limited public access to fully-autos and rocket-powered grenades and ICBMs, why are you not ok with limited public access to semi-autos? Is it cause it makes you feel like a big man? Like you have lots of power?

Anonymous said...

Hee hee. Gosh, 1:17, you seem...triggered.
A piece from Emory from 1997? Way to hit it out of the park.

Yeah, me and my well-regulated (meaning background checks and required ID) militia are just fine, thanks. And we don't care about your feelings. We're more concerned with preserving and defending our rights. Nice to know you're okay with some guns and not others. It's almost like you're exercising some kind of right. Geez, if only someone in our nation's past had actually written those somewhers so we could reference them...hmm.

And study after study has shown that the AR-15 is one of the most popular rifles in the U.S. yet is seldom, if ever, used on crime. In fact, handguns are used in over 80 percent of murders in the U.S. Nice try with the "justifiable gun-related homicides". Wait, no. Kidding. It was lame.

What kills kids is ignorance and the mamby-pamby attitude on display here.
As stated previously, if you don't like something, don't buy it. If you aren't willing to accept some measure of defense, then spare me the crocodile tears when bad things happen. And seriously, if you're going to keep debating, at least bring some facts that aren't 20 years old. I expect better from the readers of this blog.

Anonymous said...

What kills kids is ignorance and the mamby-pamby attitude on display here.

Great point. I am mamby-pamby and I am killing kids.

According to the CDC and the FBI, in 2012, for every 1 justifiable gun homicide (which the FBI defines as "the killing of a felon during the commission of a felony by a private citizen"), there were:

- 34 criminal gun homicides
- 78 gun suicides
- 2 accidental gun deaths

I'm sure you'll convince yourself that the 34 criminal homicides ratio will get better with the proliferation of guns (which is crazy nutso). But you can't argue that the ratio of accidental gun deaths to justifiable gun homicide will decrease. Lame or otherwise.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure you'll convince yourself the stats you used are relevant (which is nutso). The cherry-picked data from the CDC pertaining to justifiable homicide is, well, pointless. Lookie here what my dumb redneck ass found on those search egnine thingies y'all mentioned:
The FBI collects crime data from local law enforcement agencies, including the number of cases labeled “justifiable homicides” committed by law enforcement officers. The data is flawed because reporting is voluntary and self-reported. “About 750 agencies contribute to the database, a fraction of the 17,000 law enforcement agencies in the United States,” USA Today wrote.

All irrelevant when discussing the AR-15. Just say it--you want guns banned. You haven't been honest with your data; try being honest with your stance.

Anonymous said...

Useless. You cited police shootings. I cited "the killing of a felon during the commission of a felony by a private citizen," not a police officer. LEARN TO READ.

I told you I was generally in favor of banning all semi autos, and permitting single bolts, shotguns, and revolvers. Honest. That's what I wrote. Above.

Lebo Citizens said...

Excuse me. Our kids are going to have walkouts because they don't feel safe. What do the two of you propose so that our kids and our teachers feel safe, and more importantly ARE safe?

Our government can put FBI certified known criminals on No-Fly lists, but cannot deny them the right to buy guns. Isn't that a little goofy, no matter where you stand?

Can we all come up with a solution for our kids and teachers?
Elaine

Anonymous said...

6:57, Methinks you doth protest too much. Go back and read your own post. Do it s-l-o-w-l-y.

Did you see the speech from the Florida dad today? He was the one who was attacked for wearing a Trump shirt last week. You know, because that matters when his daughter was just killed. I found a link to his entire speech.

Listen to what he said today. You want to know my solution? I already offered it--a defensive posture that provides safety in the schools for the kids there. If we follow 6:57 and subscribe to the mindset of "we shouldn't have to be inconvenienced by metal detectors", then there is no solution. Evil always finds a means.

And please stop with the "NRA is the boogie man" nonsense. Last time I looked, Congress makes law in our country. If you plan to bring up lobbying and campaign money, make sure you do your homework. The oh-so-evil gun lobby isnt even close to the top in terms of giving to candidates.

Anonymous said...

This comment, all non sequitur, shows that you're more interested in appearing to be right than being right.

It's also clear that you feel like you have something to prove. Perhaps your gun ownership helps you feel powerful. I will pray for you.

Anonymous said...

I’m just wondering 7:00 am, let’s imagine you get your assault rifle ban and they install metal detectors at the entrances to the school. Great everybody is now safe once they enter the school, but that troubled youth that still imagines killing their peers and teachers is the answer or their revenge or moment in the sun.

So they walk up to the entrance where a long line of students are waiting to be checked in and shoots the metal detector operator, 17 or more students in line and enters the building and continues on with his carnage?

It isn’t too hard to imagine a number of scenarios where they can force their way into the building. What if it’s a Columbine situation where there are two kids working together. One enters through the metal detector unarmed then let’s their accomplice in thru an unobserved entrance.

I agree we’ve got problems that we need to find solutions to, but a knee-jerk assault rifle ban and attacking people that don’t agree with you is not the solution.

Anonymous said...

9:17, this is why we can’t accept ‘facts’ on face value like those from the New York Times article that suggest: “Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent.”

Trouble is the New York Times as is often the case is wrong!

Read the article below that claims: “Powerful remarks, and no doubt heartfelt. But a study of global mass-shooting incidents from 2009 to 2015 by the Crime Prevention Research Center, headed by economist John Lott, shows the U.S. doesn't lead the world in mass shootings. In fact, it doesn't even make the top 10, when measured by death rate per million population from mass public shootings.
So who's tops? Surprisingly, Norway is, with an outlier mass shooting death rate of 1.888 per million (high no doubt because of the rifle assault by political extremist Anders Brevik that claimed 77 lives in 2011). No. 2 is Serbia, at just 0.381, followed by France at 0.347, Macedonia at 0.337, and Albania at 0.206. Slovakia, Finland, Belgium, and Czech Republic all follow. Then comes the U.S., at No. 11, with a death rate of 0.089.

That's not all. There were also 27% more casualties from 2009 to 2015 per mass shooting incident in the European Union than in the U.S.

"There were 16 cases where at least 15 people were killed," the study said. "Out of those cases, four were in the United States, two in Germany, France, and the United Kingdom."

"But the U.S. has a population four times greater than Germany's and five times the U.K.'s, so on a per-capita basis the U.S. ranks low in comparison — actually, those two countries would have had a frequency of attacks 1.96 (Germany) and 2.46 (UK) times higher."



https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/sorry-despite-gun-control-advocates-claims-u-s-isnt-the-worst-country-for-mass-shootings/

Anonymous said...

As if we don’t have enough items to debate while trying to keep our kids safe at school, the following in the Almanac.

“In another matter, the [Bethel] board asked administrators to change the policy on bathroom breaks at the high school.

Administrators implemented stricter rules on bathroom use in October, after a student scrawled a threat against the school on a bathroom wall. The incident led to school cancelations and a police investigation. Since then, students have not been allowed to use the restroom between classes.”

So now students cannot use the restroom when they may need it, but instead wait and get permission from a teachers.”

Is this what life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness has come to in the USA?

“Yes Sir, no Sir
Where do I go Sir
What do I do Sir
How do I behave
Yes Sir, no Sir
Permission to speak Sir
Permission to breathe Sir
What do I say, how do I behave, what do I say”

Lebo Citizens said...

I am extremely disturbed by your possible scenario, 8:24 AM. We also don't need song lyrics.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

I debated posting the scenario, simply because it might put ideas in someone’s head, but how else do you show how complicated the school safety issue is. People think there are simple solutions and politicians are at fault for not implementing them.

Unfortunately, the only real option to keep our kids safe is to have an armed presence in the school. Is that where we want to go?
In our high school how many armed police or teachers will it take to save one life or dozens? One, two, ten? If the violent student starts shooting in the auditorium or in the parking lot or in one of the gyms, how long will it take the officer to get to the scene?

Oh OK, I get it. False narratives that America is a violent society compared to the rest of the world is OK, but a few lyrics inserted in an attempt to get people to think.... is bad stuff.

Lebo Citizens said...

10:07 AM, the only thing I think is how annoying lyrics, quotes, and data that is twenty years old are.

I am extremely disturbed that you even came up with that terrifying scenario.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

What data that is twenty years old?!

“That's not all. There were also 27% more casualties from 2009 to 2015 per mass shooting incident in the European Union than in the U.S.”

Must be that Lebo math at work, eh! 2018 - 2015 = 20 years

So I guess if you want to solve a problem, one should ignore all the potential pitfalls before implementing that solution. Sounds like a good way to run a railroad.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone find it curious that in all these discussions and debates over mass murders, school shootings no one is asking how we’ve arrived at this point?

When the USA was in the deepest darkest days of the Great Depression and people were hungry and on the street we didn’t have mass shootings. (Yes we had things like the St. Valentines Day massacre)
Even up to the late 1950s when we had soldiers returning from WWII and Korea, that had seen atrocities unimaginable and surely were candidates for PTSD as much as anyone, we didn’t near as I can tell, have people shooting up schools and college campuses.
Were students not bullied and ostracized back then? Did some lose parents and managed to cope? Weren’t there Gays that endured slurs and abuse? Minorities that were mistreated?

Automatic weapons have been around for a long time. Anybody could get their hands on a Thompson sub machine gun or a 1911 Colt automatic during those years, but (and maybe I’ve lived in a bubble) mass murders didn’t occur in America on a regular basis.

Before we jump through hoops for gun control, metal detectors, and armed teachers perhaps we need to find out where we’ve gone off track.

Anonymous said...

Why are you so disturbed by my imagine scenario? Did you forget that the Colorado theatre shooter entered through the front doors THEN retrieved his weapons from an unguarded exit door before he killed 12 people?!!!

Lebo Citizens said...

I told you that I was not going to get sucked into this discussion and I got sucked back in.

You know waaay too much about this and have thought about this waaay too hard. If the police ask me who you are, I will tell them. Please stop.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

FYI, I want our kids to go to safe schools just as much as anyone!