Kristen Linfante answered my questions to the commission, "Who funds lebogreen.org and who is the Mt. Lebanon Environmental Team?"
"The Environmental Team is not a municipal board - it is a group that works often with the ESB, and they have a rep on the ESB, but they are not affiliated.Still wanting more information, Kristen responded to my second email.
Kristen Linfante"
"Not a single tax dollar goes to the Environmental Team or their website. It is a completely volunteer group. One of their members created the site and manages it. This group is not affiliated with the municipality or the SD.Under Rob Papke's beautiful photo on About Us, I learned more about The Mt. Lebanon Environmental Team.
Kristen Linfante"
The Mt. Lebanon Environmental Team is a group of local Mt. Lebanon (Pennsylvania) citizen volunteers devoted to improving the environment by working with residents, elected officials, institutions, businesses and the Mt. Lebanon Environmental Sustainability Board. The team is dedicated to responding to the global and local economic, social and environmental challenges associated with energy demand and human contributions to climate change and to improve the effects of these changes on our community and neighbors.Then it hit me. Here is a group of citizen volunteers who work with elected officials and the Mt. Lebanon Environmental Sustainability Board. Elected officials who push their personal agendas with boards who are appointed by ELECTED OFFICIALS. How does this citizen group get to work with elected officials and the ESB? Is it because they are friends of elected officials?
Get involved by joining the team. Sign up by sending us an email.
What about the hundreds of people who read this blog? I can't say there are hundreds who disagree with our elected officials, but why can't we have a say in things? We have a board chosen by elected officials who work with friends of the elected officials. How fair is that? Who is representing those who disagree with these people? Why can't there be boards who represent the rest of us?
Look at the whole PAYT debate. The Environmental Sustainability Board and The Mt. Lebanon Environmental Team are pushing it. Who is representing those who don't want it? What about the storm water fee? Who represented the folks who didn't want to get stuck with that fee?
We're told by the Commission that the Community Relations Board (staff liaison is Susan Morgans, commission liaison is Dave Brumfield) will be sponsoring a public discussion about deer in Mt. Lebanon. Community Relations Board Minutes from July 10, 2013 Funny how the two CRB women at the discussion session never heard about Lebo Citizens. Dave Brumfield, you know the guy who was against killing deer, who suddenly thinks that a deer cull is a good idea, and Susan Morgans, who asked me in 2006 and 2007, "How many times are you going to tell us that deer culling isn't safe? You tell us over and over." are asking the Community Relations Board to sponsor a meeting about deer. Puleeze. That is as bad as Dave Brumfield organizing a "Sports Advisory Board" which is represented by primarily by field sports dads who are drooling for artificial turf.
It isn't just on the municipal side of our local government. It is happening with the school district too. Who represents the math parents? How about the four thousand people who wanted to scale down the renovation project? Or how about all the fees that parents are now facing? The teachers can't help. The administrators? The school board? I don't think so. There are no groups representing us, the non elected, non appointed members of the community.
So how about it? What about a Lebo Citizens Team? When are the rest of us going to have a say in things? The elected officials and the soon-to-be elected officials claim they don't read the blog. And please don't tell us that we can do that at the polls. That is a bunch of dog crap from Williamsburg Park.
60 comments:
Having volunteered for a number of these boards and not even getting a thank you for applying it quickly became apparent what is going on.
For instance, ask the Environment Team a direct question, ask them to present evidence backing their claims and they clam up.
Ask them about the impact on the environment of articial turf and stadium lights. They won't say a word, no idea where the power is generated for lights, where the plastic turf and tire pellets wll go when the turf is replaced. But they'll tell everyone they must pay to trash their little plastic Disani water bottles!
Another ET idea. No Idling signs. Watch at any school on a hot or frigid day how many moms, dads and nannies pay attention to no idling zones.
Ask the ET people to have a serious debate on subjects like these and they'll quickly bury their heads in the sand or embark on a systemic assualt on your character.
We've seen an example on how they're already going after Damion and he hasn't run for any office yet.
Just indicate he's thinking about it.
Here are 10 items for debate:
http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/
Mr. Papke, Ms. Linfante anyone from the ESB care to dispute the 10 myths in an open public forum?
You miss a fundamental tenor of our system of government. You state: “[W]hy can't we have a say in things? We have a board chosen by elected officials …. Who is representing those who disagree with these people? Why can't there be boards who represent the rest of us?”
The truth is that in our government our elected officials represent us all. We do not have a system that gives a group that did not vote for the elected officials some second chance to be represented. The majority spoke. The minority must live with the representation of those in office until the next election. Live with it.
What's going on here? Is the Municipality going to break away from the SHACOG bidding/contracting process in order to go the PAYT route on their own? Is the Municipal blog post by Merle a diversionary tactic? Where are the facts?
11:14 PM (the rude one) the commission does not represent the majority. We can only vote for 1/5 of it. If the commission represents all of us, then why do we vote by ward? Sounds like you would be considered for a board in this city.
Let me guess, 11:14 PM. You must be one of the chosen ones. I don't know too many elected officials who are representing all of us. They are all pushing their pet projects and surround themselves with people who push their agendas. Gimme a break.
Elaine
Re: idling cars. The parents idle no matter the weather. The district requires it with the rolling drop offs. Kids don't walk because __________
11:14 I could accept what you say if it weren't for disruptive polling tactics and a decidely biased municipal magazine that refuses to do any real reporting on issues in the community.
Any coverage or questioning of causes of private homes being flooded?
You'll never see it? Any coverage of the shoddy workmanship in the new municipal building?
How about the Joint Maintenance Agreement? How about a Q&A on what in the hell we're going to do with the McNeilly property.
See any acknowledgement of the pool bid improprieties?
We did not vote for the ET members or the ESB members. They're "advising" the elected officials on trash collection. We're supposed to "live with it"? They are dictating how we are going to rid our garbage.
You are exactly right, 12:15.
We did not elect any of these "advisors." Theyy are hand picked. We even saw a case where they tried to stack the Sports Advisory Board with a non-resident though it was against the Home Rule Charter, which the solicitor and commissioners should have been well aware of.
After all Brumfield and Parks Advisor Franklin are lawyers, aren't they?
We don't have to "live with IT."
First, I would definitely be of the Lebo Citizens team as all voices need to be heard in all aspects of government. Yes, there will be times when elected officials will be forced to go against the majority opinion, but that should be few and far between.
Second, thank you 10:52PM for noticing that people are already trying to attack me and I have no idea one way or another if I will be running for an office. It does allow me to see who will the biggest naysayers and attackers IF I do decide to run.
from Kristen: "they have a rep on the ESB"
What the Kluck?
See membership from the mtl code at the end of this comment. No mention of the membership including reps from any organization other than from the muni and schools. It might be that a member happens to be on the ET, maybe several are on the ET. But the ET is not 'spose to have a rep on the ESB.
Was it the plan from the beginning to have interlocking boards?
from Wikipedia: "This practice (interlocking boards) , although widespread and lawful, raises questions about the quality and independence of board decisions."
Again, what the Kluck?
Membership and Term. The Environmental Sustainability Board shall consist of seven (7) members each appointed for a three (3) year term. The initial terms of board members shall be one (1), two (2) and three (3) years. No more than three (3) members’ terms shall expire in any one year. Three (3) board members shall be appointed by the municipality, three (3) shall be appointed by the Mt. Lebanon School District and one (1) shall be selected by the six (6) seated members.
"The Lebo Citizens Team" sounds great! Our elected leaders obviously need a great deal of assistance in crafting effective ad hominem attacks.
I wish someone, maybe someone from that knowledgeable earth-friendly, Green Team can explain this one to me.
We will need to seperate our trash into several different containers, which they say we'd throw less out if we go to a PAYT recycling plan. Correct? As I read the Green Team arguments for the plan, right.
Yet I can walk up to Home Depot, Loews, maybe Rolliers and buy a very large and very strong plastic sack that Waste Management says you can throw everything into - "including the kitchen sink" (up to 3,500 lbs.) and they'll come and pick up that one large sack, with heavens knows what people could throw in it!
What am I missing in this picture, except that Waste Management gets to charge you more money either way!
I'll also ask again, if I'm paying for my trash pick up out of my own pocket, why can't I choose the hauler and method of getting rid of my trash.
Its none of the municipalities damn business, as long as my hauler isn't dumping illegally.
Elaine,
What everyone has forgotten is that the traditional strength of the machine came from neighborhood organizations. These neighborhood groups were the backbone of Republican support. The problem is that most of our residents don't organize and they don't get out to the polls - so the politicians have forgotten the neighborhood organizations and the residents within our community.
That's really how we got where we are...
My point is simply that the strength of our machine traditionally came from a solidified base - neighbors talking with neighbors, coming to a concensus, letting their views be known to the SB and the Commissioners who used to listen to what everyone had to say.
When the residents stopped talking and our elected officials stopped listening Mt Lebanon went to hell in a handbasket!
Of course, you have a following that can also be organized... ;)
I would say Mr. Kendrick, these neighborhood groups are the problem.
The PTAs, the Green Team, the California Girls, the sports cabal.
Then you have the public servants and teachers union that see how advantageous it is to side with these groups and that is how everything gets out of whack.
Its how we ended up with the useless Twin Hills abd McNeilly property.
It how maintainIng a community pool plan went $900,000 over budget.
Its how we ended up with a $113+ million dollar vomitorium!
Mr. Kendrick,
That is one of the things I would want to do IF I decide to run for commissioner. I would set up a weekend day for residents in my ward or any other resident to come to a common area and just talk over issues with them. I don't think everyone would fit at my house or I would certainly bring them there. The peoples' voice should never be muffled.
It will also result in a deer cull to satisfy a very small group of people that want their gardens protected using other peoples' money.
Would "Phoenix" or "Houston" please contact me? I have been trying to reach you.
Elaine
EGillen476@aol.com
Damion, don't know if you were for it or not but, Matt Kluck commissioner, James Fraasch SB director and many of the people that wanted "A LESS EXPENSIVE" high school project put on a Town Hall get together. Because of limited seating in municipal chambers tickets were limited to around 50 residents.
Then the protest started, people thought and accussed the above of trying to hijack the community.
People picketed outside with children holding "What the Kluck" signs.
I believe Commissioner Linfante was one of them.
Correct - Damion don't know if you were [here] for it or not...
I was not here for that and only having a town hall meeting in a room with only a 50 person capacity is not the smartest idea. Surely there are better venues around Mt. Lebanon to hold bigger meetings, but the ones I was thinking of would be weekly so not everyone would be coming all at once. During the summer months, we could have them out at one of our many parks. These are just some thoughts I've been hashing outloud.
At the time, I believe, no one was sure 50 people would even show up, Damion.
This was a time when commission meetings were lucky to have 20 people in attendance.
Meet the Candidate nights don't do much better.
Ah yes, the teachers union...
I think that the teachers union is a wolf in sheeps clothing.
Many of us are old enough to remember when the socialists tried to overturn the US government using violence in the streets during the 1960's. That strategy didn't work.
Following their failure, we watched hard-line Marxists become public school teachers - they transformed the classroom into a platform of advocacy and eventually into an indoctrination camp in support of a socialist world that they argued was inevitable.
These hard-line Marxists, who colonized the Mt Lebanon schools, didn't see the classroom as a vehicle for instruction. Instead, the classroom became a platform of advocacy where where they could stand under the shroud of academic freedom and open their big mouths. They were free to dispense their horseshit while collecting a rather hansome check with very generous benefits. Face it, it's better to stand under a dry roof in a warm building versus the alternaitve of carrying a sign and marching in the streets - although I doubt that any of them would have been that motivated to actually perform physical work!
It has taken them years, but they've eventually warped enough minds that they are getting a foothold and some of their policies in place.
Like I said before, socialism works until we run out of everyone else's money. Then it will be over for ALL of us - including them!
How did we get from the Environmental Team to the teachers' union?
The ET is advising the ESB who is advising the commissioners on PAYT.
The ET is a citizens' group who has a website that hasn't cost the tax payers a dime to maintain. The same could be said for this blog and my website. I hardly think the lebogreen website has the readership that this blog and website attracts. Why do they have so much say in things around here?
Elaine
That is a good question Elaine. How does this little group of lebogreeners pack so much influence? Provide so little in the way of indepth evaluation or examination and get away with it?
There site is nothing but a collection of climate change propaganda. You won't see or read any papers when their is evidence is rebuked or apologies if they took the wrong side.
I am still waiting for facts and figures.
Elaine
Mr. Kendrick, not to take away from Elaine's suject at hand but I think you'll enjoy John Taylor Gatto's writings on education.
He's originally from Monagehela, PA and was New York state's Teacher of the Year.
His quotes here are vaguely on the topic of the green teaching agenda.
“What's gotten in the way of education in the United States is a theory of social engineering that says there is ONE RIGHT WAY to proceed with growing up.”
― John Taylor Gatto, Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Education
“In our secular society, school has become the replacement for church, and like church it requires that its teachings must be taken on faith.”
The lebogreen's expect their decrees on PAYT, recycling to be accepted on faith.
2.03 pm brought the teachers union up.
Yes, 2:03 did because the teachers fell in
Line with the GreenTeam agenda and put Michael Mann's flawed global warming textbook in the science curriculum.
Lebogreen probably became influential because they focused on one particular issue: PAYT. It's not panning out though so I wouldn't idolize their technique.
If you want to make a difference, pick your issue and stick with it.
Not panning out? Care to elaborate, 6:05 PM?
There are many issues here in Mt. Lebanon. I hear what you are saying, but we can't pick just one issue.
Elaine
PAYT is getting attention but I don't think it is going to become a reality.
I agree that there are COUNTLESS issues to address in Mt Lebanon but I think you will be most effective when you address one at a time and gain the support not just of blog readers but of the wider community.
6:44 there was a focus on one issue-- the high school project.
In my opion we've lost a couple of what would've been very good superintendents.
Several rational leaders were driven out of office by this mean-spirited group of, for lack of a better term, progressives.
Even when their $90,000,000 HS plan didn't pan out, there was no admission that they got it wrong, no apologies for their personal attacks, no concept that maybe they aren't as smart as they thought they were.
If you have too much garbage to throw away you can take your excess paper to the elementary school paper collection containers and let the PTA pay the PAYT fee from their extra paper recycling program.
7:28 PM, thanks for the snarky comment. I don't believe we have to pay extra for recycling. It would be the rest of our trash. The PTA should be able to continue the paper recycling program and the kids will continue to benefit from it.
Elaine
It's terrible that we need to have a charity paper program to support education in this commuity - particularly with these astronomical taxes that we all pay!
11:14 you said "The truth is that in our government our elected officials represent us all. We do not have a system that gives a group that did not vote for the elected officials some second chance to be represented. The majority spoke. The minority must live with the representation of those in office until the next election. Live with it. "
You are a really special person. You don't know the meaning of compassion.
The majority should not rule at the expense of the minority!
5:51 you are kidding with that outburst... aren't you!
Knock off the inflamatory, divisive rhetoric, 5:51.
Here's a little history on party politics.
"Only 64 percent of Democrats in Congress voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act (153 for, 91 against in the House; and 46 for, 21 against in the Senate). But 80 percent of Republicans (136 for, 35 against in the House; and 27 for, 6 against in the Senate) voted for the 1964 Act."
I removed 5:51 PM's comment.
Elaine
Its your blog of course, Elaine, but I leave it up as an example of the foolishness that permeates our community.
Get your facts straight, 5:25!
"Dem. Leader Sen. Harry Reid Says ‘No’ To Funding Kids’ Cancer Treatments"
http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/10/25348-dem-leader-sen-harry-reid-says-no-to-funding-kids-cancer-treatments/
Backnon the subject of recycling, the Green Team and liberal agendas.
"Here's something interesting.
Those Darn Facts: Liberal professor shocked to discover Tea Party smarter than average.
Cultural Cognition Project ^ | 10/15/2013 | Dan Kahan
Posted on October 17, 2013 8:33:57 AM EDT by Beave Meister
Dan Kahan, the Elizabeth K. Dollard Professor of Law and Professor of Psychology at Yale Law School was curious about the relationship between ”science comprehension“ and political outlooks. His findings shocked him: tea party supporters are actually more scientifically literate than the non-tea party population."
How about the Lebo Citizens Oversight Committee!
By the way, did anyone listen to Tim Murphy's Town Hall conference calls? I found it interesting. Elaine, I took notes if u want them.
4:29 PM Michael Mann and Al Gore have text books used in our science curriculum.
Yes, that would be terrific, 9:48 PM. I didn't hear it.
Elaine
Tim Murphy did a telephone survey and 40% of his constituents wanted a budget solution with no conditions, 47% wanted a budget solution with conditions, and 13% did not want a resolution until the spending was addressed.
7:06 et al. The study outcome is certainly unexpected. I would not generalize one study to the rest of the tea/non-tea party population. So many variables to this comparitive study. I can't imagine it would easily be replicated. I wonder what the author's definition of scientifically literate even means, let alone the design of the study.
Wonder who the study participants were? I bet the tea party population test comprised of those with 18+ years of education and between ages of 40-50. The non-tea party population was probably comprised of college students ages 18-22.
Looking this up a NY times article states "Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class.
The 18 percent of AmericanTea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class.....Tea Party supporters are wealthier and more well-educated than the general public, and are no more or less afraid of falling into a lower socioeconomic class, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
The 18 percent of Americans who identify themselves as Tea Party supporters tend to be Republican, white, male, married and older than
45."
It's as I thought!
Further research brings up more studies by Yale Professor Dan Kahan:
Science Confirms: Politics Wrecks Your Ability to Do Math
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/new-study-politics-makes-you-inumerate
Gee what to do when study findings conflict! By the same author no less!
Bottom line, don't believe everything you read.
What does that say about Yale and their professors?
But, I do agree, by all means don't believe everything you read... Whether it comes from a Yale professor, NYTimes, MTL magazine or the Lebo Green Team.
I'm 9:48, thanks 10:06, I type slow.
In addition 26% thought the debt ceiling should be raised without any conditions, 39% said raise the debt ceiling without spending cuts and 35% said the debt ceiling should not be raised. Tim Murphy commented that not raising the debt ceiling would be bad resulting in programs like social security going into default.
He also took another poll regarding the Affordable care website. 7% tried to get on website and found it helpful. 6% tried to get on the website and it was not helpful. 86% did not try to get on the website. Murphy was very surprised at this result. Me, too. I am lucky and have great health insurance. I suspect the area he polled that night was the reason for this result. I do know some family members who say Obama Care is a Godsend due to preexisting conditions.
Maybe I'm a bit of a socialist but I think in our age of technology, health care is a human rights issue, not a political one.
Jake
PS. Why can't our local politicians hold weekly or bimonthly telephone town meetings?
Hey Just Sayin! I appreciate the reference on interlocking boards. I really don't get why u keep referring to the slander used against Mr. Kluck. . Are you trying to be funny? R u saying he's responsible?
To all:
I find it disgraceful kids, KIDS were carrying signs saying such things! Another commissioner, linfante carrying a sign like that? Was she a commissioner then? What could be the reasoning? Would someone please explain?
Jake
Jake have you done an examination of the plans and their costs aa desrcribed on the Affordable (ha,ha,ha) Care website.
How about $12,500 deductable on a family plan and $1,400 monthly payments. Make sure to check co-pays and what is included or not included in the plan.
Jake,
Linfante was not a commissioner then. Also Mrs. Larry Lebowitz was protesting. No, Larry was not a school board director at the time. The photographer for the Environmental Team was invited and was the only one who asked a question about the high school renovation. James Fraasch was on the panel. He's gone. Matt Kluck will be done at the end of the year. See who is in control now? WTK is not being directed toward Matt. It was said by people who are leading our community.
What the Kluck?
Elaine
Jake, If you want to donate to YOUR human rights issue be my guest.
I like the idea presented at the start of this conversation-- a Lebocitizen Team.
Maybe it could be a PAC to address issues concerning community issues, bipartisan that meets once a month to pick an issue, select people knowledgable to offer advice to our elected officials.
After all, where did the ESB board come from and how did they become so influential?
12:01 PM, the ESB is an official board whose members were appointed by the commissioners. If you are referring to the Environmental Team, yes, I agree with you. That was my point. I was asking a rhetorical question, but if you think it has merit, I'm in.
Anyone interested in joining, send me an email. I know there are many readers wishing to remain anonymous to the public. If there is enough interest, I can set up a meeting and those wishing to remain anonymous can still participate. Your identity is safe with me. ;)
Elaine
EGillen476@aol.com
Yes, I understan that the ESB is an appointed board and the ET is just a group of environmentalist.
But, MTL didn't always have an ESB did it? So it almost a chicken or the egg question, I suppose.
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