At the October 3, 2013 Sports Advisory Board meeting, the condition of the aging ice rink was brought to the SAB's attention. Additionally, Commissioner John Bendel addressed the SAB members and asked how they wanted to spend their pot of gold. It was on the meeting video, but for some strange reason, that video is no longer available on the Mt. Lebanon website. Of course.
However, I have the link to that video from a blog posting:
Update November 3, 2014 3:19 PM In addition to the videos that Albert Turfstein provided, please view the October 3, 2013 Sports Advisory Board Meeting. Click on Turf Project and watch Tim White say, "Mr. Bendel pissed away all the money we had."
John Bendel went around the room and asked each member how they wanted to spend the remaining funds from the original $829,000 unassigned funds. The minutes show that the "consensus on the board was that Middle and Wildcat fields would be the preferred location."
Another service no longer provided by the Municipality is their notary service.
Keep cutting back on services, Mt. Lebanon, but take care of the special interest groups. Kill those deer. Turf those fields. Ignore the ice rink which is enjoyed by the public. Eliminate our solid waste collection service. Great job.
Update January 8, 2017 7:29 PM I forgot to include the bids for the ice rink. Alternates are also listed. Keith McGill added, "The probable opinion of cost was developed by Gateway Engineers in conjunction with Stantec who is consulting on the project."
Update January 8, 2017 7:29 PM I forgot to include the bids for the ice rink. Alternates are also listed. Keith McGill added, "The probable opinion of cost was developed by Gateway Engineers in conjunction with Stantec who is consulting on the project."
74 comments:
Don't forget they're also looking to find away to preserve those brick streets while pot-holed and deteriorating streets go unfixed.
Does anyone miss the brick paving on Castle Shannon Blvd.?
If you don't think those turfed fields are enjoyed by the public, you're dreaming, Elaine.
Unfortunately Elaine, finding a way to get this information out to the public is tough.
You have some great information on your blog, some great questions pertaining to PAYT and some suggestions like making the stormwaterfee more equitable.
That is great news, 1:25 PM! Which slots are open for the public to play on the new turfed field on Cedar Blvd.? I have never seen any hours posted.
Elaine
Sure 1:25, they are, but they could have been enjoyed just as well with cheaper and well maintained grass just like they have been for years.
Can you quantify that the field enjoyment level has gone up by a million dollars worth?
From what we are told the ice rink can't continue in its present condition and that million dollars would have gone a long way to keep it running.
It would be so helpful, 1:25 PM, if we could have a public session schedule for the fields (turfed or otherwise) like we have for the ice skating rink published on the municipal website HERE.
Elaine
Elaine there are no open slots for Wildcat unless you want to use it in January ! Don't expect to hear from 1:25.
1:25 is very funny, we should open a comedy club for them to appear in.
This is disgraceful. Someone, I'm guessing Dave Donnellan, knew years ago that the defrost system had failed at the ice rink. But was this mentioned to anyone when the turf was being discussed? Who knows but probably not. So what do they do, they kept this information under wraps for a few years because they wanted to get the turf project passed instead of investing money to get the ice rink fixed.
Nick M.
Nick, to repeat a submission contributed earlier.
Think Like a Futurist to Be Prepared for the Totally Unexpected
The Wall Street Journal
The art and science of futuring is fast becoming a necessary skill, where we read signals, see trends and ruthlessly test our own assumptions, writes Christopher Mims.
"Futuring is no longer just for futurists, says Ms. Webb. Like the ability to make a budget or think critically, it’s a skill that anyone who has to make long-range decisions should, and can, acquire. Doing it at the scale required by a corporation might require weeks of effort by a team of people, but for individuals it can be much simpler.
“It doesn’t require a Ph.D. and a complicated nine-month process,” says Mr. Smith, who adds, “We can do this in 15 minutes at a table in Starbucks and come to some kind of interesting realization.”
https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/think-like-a-futurist-to-be-prepared-for-the-totally-unexpected-1483272006?client=safari
Unfortunately, we've elected a commission that can't think about next month, let alone next year.
Thank you, 2:25 PM. I have had this blog since November 29, 2010. I have been in The Washington Post, on KDKA Radio, KQV, on the local TV news stations, on the front page of the Post-Gazette and the Trib, and as late as Friday, under Breaking News on the Tribune-Review website.
The Municipality and School District, along with their trolls, have attempted to keep me quiet all these years. They try to discredit me every chance they can.
It IS a challenge getting this out to the public when local government goes after the little guy. Goliath beats David every time, at least in Mt. Lebanon.
Elaine
Hi 4:06...if I were placing bets, I would bet that even the commission was left in the dark about this one. If you go back and review the recommended budgets for both 2015 and 2016 there is no mention of the ice rink defrost system needing replaced. But somehow it was known by someone during that same time period that the system had failed. Could there be another reason why it was kept under wraps for so long? And now that it's a few years down the road, we now need new dasher boards (or refurbishment), new anti-freeze, transmission mains, etc.
But at the same time when things are falling apart and the township is hemorrhaging money, let's continue to pay those cell phone bills, keep sending Susan Morgans to New York and still continue those pancake breakfasts and appreciation dinners among other things that are hidden away in the expenditure report that they don't want us to see and they lie about when they say we can't obtain them prior to commission approval. Like Elaine eluded to in the heading of this post, "priorities." Well, it's obvious that the priorities of our local government are backwards. But I know, let's just keep piling on more debt by issuing more bonds, yah, like that will solve everything.
It's still disgraceful in my opinion.
Nick M.
Nick, I can agree with you on almost everything, but on the ice rink there were whispers that there were problems as far back as 2010. If memory serves they attempted some cheap fixes because they had the pool to deal with and the field boys were lobbying for turf.
5:22, doesn't it come down to prioritizing wants versus needs? The pool needed repaired, the ice rink needs repaired but the turf was a want and don't forget, every year that turf is costing us roughly $50,000. If there were whispers as far back as 2010 regarding the ice rink, why did it take an additional 6-7 years to be addressed when Dave Donnellan knew that the ice rink was well beyond its useful years? That's my main beef. And there's no guarantee that an acceptable bid will come in 2017.
I see too that they want to put greening at Robb Hollow Park ($132,000), a hitting wall at Brafferton ($8810), community video ($5000), lobby benches ($12,000), etc. which are all wants, ahead of the needs. Dave Donnellan mentioned too that the recreation building roof is in need of replacement Heck, maybe they could hold off on the firing range for a few years, that would defer $1.3 million.
I still believe too that we can obtain outside sponsorship money to pay for a lot of what we need done. I'm sure a company like Titleist would give us a few bucks to advertise at the golf course for them.
Nick M.
Nick:
At least as far back as 2005 the owner of Bloglebo at least recognized that the rink needed attention from time to time.
"So what am I suggesting? Well, since it's unlikely that we'll ever do anything that's actually useful with the ice rink, like make it into a methadone clinic or a W Hotel, I suppose we keep paying to have it resurfaced, pay for new Zambonis and continue to upgrade the AC and refrigeration when necessary"
http://bloglebo.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_archive.html?m=1
Thanks for the link 6:04. How do you folks find this stuff, especially from over 11 years ago.
I find it interesting that some of the same concerns they brought up in 2005 we are still bringing up today such as outside the box thinking and taking a page out of a neighboring community's book.
I guess I prove my own point when I use the term "complacent" when it comes to the thinking around here. Nothing ever changes...except for the amount of debt we incur.
Nick M.
5:22 here Nick, I absolutely agree with priortizing and taking care of needs vs. wants.
By all means, delay the range, the hitting wall, the benches and air conditioning the schools or find ways to pay for the items.
As I and RG suggested maybe making the range open to resident shooting if we decide to build it.
In the spirit of PAYT, maybe we could put meters on the lobby benches to help pay for them. For the hitting wall, ball dispensers like they have at driving ranges.
And while we're on the topic of paying for stuff, I've always wondered why HS students must pay for parking permits, but teachers and school district staff don't?
Hey 5:22, I forgot to mention the concrete rebound wall they want to put in down at the park. Now there's something we really need. I need to stop watching those SAB videos. All they want to do is spend, spend, spend.
Where does it stop?
Nick M.
Nick, maybe they could put in a Pay As You Rebound meter!
Paying for the stuff we use out-of-pocket seems to be the hot ticket (Stormwater fee, PAYT) with the commissioners right now except when it comes to turf, deer killing and government cell phones.
Sorry, I forgot to include the ice rink bids and alternates. Please see the 7:29 PM update of this post.
Elaine
Wildcat field is always open to the public as long as there isn't a game or practice going on.. Just show up and use it if you want to. lol
Why do the work cell phones bother everyone so much.. Really just curious. You've never heard of company/work phones before? Pretty common.
7:34 PM, so there is no posting of open hours, right? I didn't think so. We have public sessions posted for the ice rink. But the turfing of the Crown Jewel
"- Increases field slots available by 60%; turf will withstand continuous use
- Benefits many residents - there were 3,600 total registrations in field-based youth sports programs in 2013, plus many more residents involved on School District sports teams"*
Slots had to be increased to accommodate the School District's teams, as well as the field sports for the youth sports programs. We were told everything's booked. There are no public sessions, 7:34 PM. lol
Elaine
*Bendel on Turf
Just curious, there were 3,600 total registration in field-based youth sports in 2013.
Is there a count for 2016?
http://www.lgc.state.pa.us/getfile.cfm?file=/Reports/deskbook14/Issues-Governance07-Surcharge-Accountability-of-Officals-for-Misuse-of-Public-Funds.pdf
Oh OK, I'll add this to my list after going to the State Supreme Court. How about someone else doing this?
Elaine
Consider also the conflict of interest presented by Gateway. Gateway, via Dan Dieseroth, serves as our municipal engineer AND Gateway benefits from every new project that is undertaken in Mt Lebanon via more engineering. The turf was a want not a need. The engineers supported it whole heartedly while whispering that there was a dreadful ice rink problem. The commission knew this but the majority chose to install the turf. For Gateway, this is a WIN-WIN. Don't forget, Gateway donated to the turf, too!
Here's the thing. We're just on the wrong side of the issues all the time. I've been told over and over that this blog has no impact on the community. We're not the cool kids. It makes no difference what we think.
The bullies sign their comments with "lol." We're all being laughed at by them because nobody does anything but bitch. Oh, I'll get the comments that people are working to find candidates. People threaten to run for office, and then disappear when it is time to circulate nomination petitions. Nothing changes in all the years I have been doing this.
Elaine
If you drive past the turf during the summer, there are always kids playing (not affiliated with any team). Just kids getting together to have fun. There don't need to be posted "public sessions." The sports teams and youth sports use the turf. Any other time, it is open. If the field is empty, you can use it.
Excellent document 9:38, thank you. If I'm reading this document correctly, does this mean we can legally go after our commissioners for being given taxpayer funded meals (misuse of public funds) prior to commission meetings in which the IRS considers meals a fringe benefit and our home rule charter states that commissioners are not allowed to receive any form of fringe benefits?
Just wondering.
Nick M.
Yes, Nick. But it also states, "They may be paid reasonable expenses incurred in the performance of their duties." So, if the commissioners are in meetings all night, you don't think them eating dinner is "reasonable?" I'm not okay with going rogue and using some credit card to all go out to Bistro every night, but some hoagies? Cmon. The most important question is, if you liked the commissioners or agreed with their plans for the community, would you even be talking about this? Doubtful.
It's not about the damn hoagies. It's about fiscal responsibility. We don't need to keep up with "The Jones", nor play head games of one upsmanship with other communities. It's not show and tell regarding trying to impress people outside of our community. The Commissioners need to focus on taking care of what we have now, maintainance on our public buildings and forget about the sports needs and do the right thing for the taxpayers and stopwasting our money! Too many head games lies for too long.
10:35, I would argue that meals are not regarded as "reasonable expenses" because they are not necessary to or for running the business.
Whether I agreed with any or all the commissioners has absolutely nothing to do with whether I'd be talking about this subject or not. Each commissioner has a fiduciary responsibility to the municipality and they should be the ones setting the examples. I would certainly call them out on anything whether I like them or not. In addition, didn't each commissioner take an oath of office.
Nick M.
We can moralize all we want, but Elaine is right. Unless we find and field candidates that can win we're just pissing into the wind here.
We can't replace them all but sending two fiscally responsible candidates to office will send a clear message that the jig is up.
If the things reported here and the views on things like how PAYT, the regressive stormwater fee haven't gotten you mad you deserve everything the municipality will do to you.
How is buying sandwiches playing headgames with other communities? Did we brag to neighboring townships about our Lebo Subs? What does that even mean
I'll be glad to answer your question —
"AnonymousJanuary 8, 2017 at 7:37 PM"
"Why do the work cell phones bother everyone so much.. Really just curious. You've never heard of company/work phones before? Pretty common."
Most people carry cellphones these, in fact, many have given up their land lines because they get all their calls on the cellphone.
Nearly every wireless provider offers unlimited calls and text so using a personal for municipal business would cost our public servants a cent.
Now then, McGill, Morgans and the commissioners have no problem asking residents to bite the bullet and pay a little more for parking, turf, deer culling, their salaries, pensions, healthcare, etc., etc.
Is it too much to ask these leaders and employees to lead by example and make a small sacrifice?
No, it'd never cross their minds to give something up would it?
No, commissioners should not be expected to use/give out personal cell phone numbers.
Yes 8:10, I absolutely agree that the commissioners should not be expected to give out their personal cell phone numbers to the public. Are you telling us that they're being given municipal paid phones? If they are, why?
They have municipal email accounts that can be checked from almost anywhere 24 hours a day. I can't think of any responsibility borne by the the commissioners that requires they be in instantaneous contact, perhaps you can enlighten us what they do to warrant a muni cell phone.
As for the claim that many people are given work cell phones, the opposite is also true that many people use their personal cellphones for work related calls.
So how about we do a comparison. Let's compare our public paid cell phone positions with comparable positions in other communities and in the private sector. Let's include salaries, healthcare, pensions, vacation time, and perks.
8:00 am here.
By leaders I was talking about employees like the well-paid PIO, municipal manager and some others.
I don't have a list of who is carrying a work cell phone and have no problem with say giving the guy that drives say the snow plow one or emergency responders.
8:10, please tell us how commissioners stayed in contact pre-cellphones.
What'd they do, send smoke signals?
No, they used their personal landlines to speak to municipal employees, other commissioners, their party and constituents if they chose too.
I remember when I was young and my mother would spout wisdom around the dinner table. There would be the music of her youth playing in the background, whether Dinah Shore or Hoagie Carmichael. She'd complain that corruption in Washington was submarining our Democracy, that the smallest advantages politicians take drive a wedge between citizens. She'd say that it takes a hero -- a real grinder --- to stand up to that corruption and to cast it out from our government. While some might say "It's only sandwiches!," I think it's the principal of the matter.
8:10, you're so up on everything like telling us many people have work paid for cell phones as a justification for them.
Please tell us how many communities have a $100,000+ public information officer with staff and send the PIO to the NYC Folio Show annually?
Clever, Po'Boy. By the way, everyone else eats dinner before the commission meeting or waits until 10:00 at night, when the meeting ends.
Elaine
"Data indicate that taxpayers may be paying their public servants more than a little too much." — Jason Chaffetz
I haven't seen the approved 2017 Budget; however, I did see that Keith had recommended to reduce the PIO budget by $4,070!
According to Susan Morgans, Commissioners also get an annual stipend of $3500 while in office.
Elaine
That $4,000 cut in the PIO is a good step in the right direction, but it's chump change.
Looking at the Total General Government budget of $4,617,650, the second largest budget item is the PIO at $862,500!
Do we really, really need that much public information?
And to put that $4,000 cut into perspective, let's look at some other items.
1) Street maintenance cut by $91,000.
2) Ice & Snow Control cut by $29,510.
3) Street Lighting cut by $23,520.
4) Traffic signs and painting cut by $5,490.
5) Street sweeping cut by $25,480.
I dunno, call me crazy but I think items 1-5 are probably more important to reducing vehicle and pedestrian accidents than the $85,000 we'll spend in the next few months shooting deer.
Then there's this one... a $108,410 cut in park maintenance. Which will probably be followed up in a few years with our parks are in such bad shape we must turf another field!
Call me crazy, but I decided to check out how much our neighbor to the south, USC, spends on public information.
There budget document is rather lengthy, but in a quick read I never did find anything referring to a Public Information Office.
The closest I came to info on one started on page 294 under the heading "Township/School District Magazine Fund"
Pay attention the Township and School District operate as one.
On the next page 295, you will see that the editorial staff - that's "staff" mind you - is budgeted at a whopping $38,000 in 2017.
How much again, do we pay our PIO/Editor to fill us in on her wine tasting vacation and her Assistant's kitchen remodel?
http://www.twpusc.org/finance/pdf/2017_USCTWP_Budget.pdf
Don't get too excited about the $4000 cut in the PIO for 2017. There was a one-time $10,500 expenditure added as a service level in 2016 to redesign the lebomag website. That expenditure won't be needed in 2017.
Nick M.
Think about the irony as you review the budget of the USC Township/school district magazine and what we spend on a PUBLIC INFORMATION Office.
Elaine ask for public information, she's backed up by the Pennsylvania Office of Open Records that says the public is entitled to the requested information and what does the municipality do... go to court against her to prevent the release of public information.
Sort of makes the Public Information Office budget of $862,500 a joke, don't you think?
In that linked article on Commissioners' $3,500 stipends Elaine, this appears—
"John Bendel, commission president, added that applicants should have a good knowledge of issues the municipality faces.
“We would like to get someone who is a critical thinker, can analyze issues and come to reasonable conclusions."
So, after several deer culling efforts that were suppose to reduce deer vehicle collisions by 50% and the commission is hit with higher collision reports the commission votes for another $85,000 sharpshooting cull.
Some real heady analytical thinking there, Mr. Bendel!😆
There is NO critical thinking at all.
This summer I was driving past the new turfed ball fields on Cedar, and I saw a young mom and dad playing with their little child (he looked 3 or 4 yrs. old) on the artificial turf field (the 2nd field driving toward Bird Park), and I got a sick feeling in my gut. I felt like I should have stopped to warn them, but was late for an appointment and so kept driving.
Looking more closely at USC's UPPER ST. CLAIR TODAY magazine.
"PROGRAM OVERVIEW"
"The Magazine Fund was established to fund a joint effort of the Township and School District to inform the residents of the Township of news pertaining to both entities through a publication. The Fund is an enterprise fund, which means that it is to be supported mostly through advertising fees, becoming self-sufficient in 1999."
The magazine's Total Operating Expense budgeted for 2017 is $179,750.
All the items encompassing this budget are shown and include, but are not limited to Editorial Staffing, Office Management, Printing, Postage, Graphic Art Supplies, Photography, Commissions-Sales, Publicity, Marketing, Office Furniture and Supplies. (See page 295 of USC's 2017 Budget Report)
http://www.twpusc.org/finance/pdf/2017_USCTWP_Budget.pdf
It would interesting to compare MTL magazine's Total Operating Expense Budget for 2017.
Another thought it was broached earlier that as a community we might save a significant sum of money by merging the Public Information Offices of the school district and municipality.
• Why have two highly paid PIOs?
• Why have two separate offices doing essentially the same thing?
MTL magazine already covers school district stories, evidenced by the recent "Coding gals - take over behind the screen" and "Meatless Monday's - Mt. Lebanon's elementary schools are getting behind the plant-based movement".
So, why not merge the two offices. USC puts the two together in a magazine?
Yes, of course there are events for individual schools that must get out to the public. How do they get out now... the school staff or super sends the info to the district's PIO. In a merger of the two offices that wouldn't change except we'd have one PIO taking care of it.
There's some inherent efficiency in having one office in charge of ALL community information in my opinion.
Here's my thought: If we continue to complain about pancake breakfasts and free hoagies, we will continue to lose the bigger battle. I don't care how many pancakes or hoagies our municipal employees or commissioners eat.
There are bigger fish to fry in this community. Let's not get trapped in tedium.
You must be a public employee, 4:53.
If you're not, see how many times you can get away with ordering dinner in or arranging pancake breakfast on the company dime.
I'll concede that occassionally employers will opt to foot the bill for a morning meeting or late night assignment, but in my experience, most times employees chipped in for their own ordered in hoagies or pizza.
I hope this doesn't become a habit.
Now onto your suggestion about bigger fish to fry, do you have an opinion on combining the two PIO offices to save money?
OK 4:53, you tell us what are the bigger fish we should be frying?
What issues should we focus on in your opinion? Is PAYT it? How about higher taxes? Is it deer? Road maintenance, drunk driving, pedestrian accidents?
We're ears... er, eyes. You came in and added your two cents that we're off base so tell us how to get back on, please.
5:39:
I am not a public employee. To answer your and 4:36's questions, I am in complete agreement with those who think that the two PIO offices should be combined. By that, I mean that probably both of the current PIOs would have to leave, for various reasons that I won't address now. I say NAYT to PAYT. Leave the deer alone. Go after the reckless and speeding drivers. Higher taxes? Of course not.
The bigger fish we need to fry are the panel of commissioners that have gotten this municipality into one mess after the other. Nothing progressive will ever occur with the current commissioners. Nothing different will, either. All of the issues that you cite above are those decided ultimately by the Commissioners. We can argue all we want on this blog or to each other about Mt. Lebanon's decline. But unless at least two of us are willing to run for the two commission seats up for grabs in the 2017 election cycle, we have no standing to complain.
Grab your clipboards, get some petition forms, and knock on doors for those signatures needed in order to be on the ballot for Brumfield's empty seat and Silverman's all-too full seat.
Change it or accept it.
Thank you 4:51. Hopefully there are a couple of residents that have the financial independence and fortitude to stand up.
4:51, I agree with everything you say, but I'd like to add that besides finding two individuals to step up the odds of taking those two seats will improve dramatically if there is an organized groundswell ready to support and stump for those two individuals.
I suggest we organize around the two or three "big fish to fry" and focus on winning those issues.
We can. E sure the powers-that-be are organized (that's how they became the powers-that-be) and will do everything in their power to maintain the status quo.
The only way to beat them is to play the game harder and better.
Now in my opinion the big three issues are PAYT, the expensive and biased Public Information Office, and the wasteful spending on ineffective deer culls. There are others and I'd like to hear the thoughts of others and which ones we should rally around.
Once there's a consensus then band together behind candidates.
Prime candidates for commission seats are men and women between 25 to 54 (the prime demographic) who are articulate political independents with money or access to money. They will need to develop a direct mail campaign, as well as arrange for public meetings with prospective constituents. They must be well versed in Mt. Lebanon's laws. They will have to have a "thick skin" and be prepared to take considerable abuse from the friends of the current power structure.
With respect to the comment of January 12, 2017 at 10:43 AM, This is not the first time a call for "cleaning house" in Lebo has been made. To date, however, suitable candidates have not been forthcoming. Also, the current duopoly is not worried about competition at this time because two-thirds of the town's registered voters do not vote in local elections. (Personally, I believe that the majority of the aforementioned non-voters are not "permanent" but "transitional" residents; i.e., they are here only to get their children educated in "superior" public schools, and once their kids are out of the nest they will move to less taxing - and perhaps warmer - locations. My wife and I have been here since 1975, but I'll bet we're the exceptions.) Still, if one bothers to look around the USA one will find examples of towns were political outsiders have overturned the local entrenched power structures. It always starts small with a handful of dedicated people, and it usually takes time, but it can be done.
We must not forget the school board! Five seats are opening up. That is the majority! I'm wondering if we will get any new candidates, or will it be the same old same old? School board candidates can cross file and are not selected by wards. Yet, we still can't get enough people to run.
Elaine
If we're looking for savings in the municipal budget, basedd on this statistic perhaps dropping the print version of MTL magazine isn't a bad idea.
https://www.statista.com/topics/1265/magazines/
"U.S. Magazine Industry - Statistics & Facts |
"Americans spent an average of 24.7 minutes reading magazines on a daily basis in 2010. This figure is forecast to decline to 16.5 minutes by 2017.".
RG,
I would agree with you that 2/3s of the residents don't vote here, but I disagree with the comment that most come school there kids then leave.
US Census numbers support the opposite.
"There were 13,610 households, out of which 31.3% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 57.3% were married couples living together, 7.2% had a female householder with no husband present, and 33.7% were non-families. 30.6% of all households were made up of individuals, and 13.5% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.37 and the average family size was 3.00. The median age was 42 years.
In the township the population was spread out, with 24.8% under the age of 18, 4.0% were 18 to 24, 26.9% were 25 to 44, 25.4% were 45 to 64, and 18.8% were 65 years of age or older. For every 100 females there were 87.1 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 82.1 males.
33.7% of the 13,160 were non-families.
30.6% of all households were made up of individuals.
The average household size was 2.37.
25.4% were 45 to 65 (almost at the end of raising kids)
18.8% were 65 or older
If your claim that people run in for education then run out I think we'd see higher numbers for larger families and younger demographics.
I think the municipality would also claim that people move here because it's a great, safe community for seniors as well as young families.
Compare USC's demographics with Lebo's.
There were 6,966 households, out of which 60.8% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 76.3% were married couples living together, 5.6% had a female householder with no husband present, and 16.4% were non-families. 15.0% of all households were made up of individuals, and 9.0% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.81 and the average family size was 3.14.
In the township the population was spread out, with 28.3% under the age of 18, 4.3% from 18 to 24, 22.6% from 25 to 44, 28.3% from 45 to 64, and 16.4% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 42 years. For every 100 females there were 93.7 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 89.1 males.
Only 15% of households were made up of individuals.
The average household size is 2.81 and the average family size is 3.14.
With respect to the points raised by January 13, 2017* at 4:58 AM, I am willing to concede his/her numbers; however, I'm not sure they actually refute my original point because they don't reflect turnover. By the time the municipality updates their data another year has gone by. Also, let me emphasize that I said "Personally, I believe that the majority of the aforementioned non-voters are not "permanent" but "transitional" residents..". This was my personal opinion; if this is not the case I will cheerfully admit my error. I would love to see much better data that what is currently available.
One other thing; whether my opinion on turnover is correct, it does not refute my main points about prime candidates for commission seats.
---------------
*If I knew who this person was I would have courteously engaged him/or in a public discourse on the subject, but I have a personal policy of not directly addressing anonymous posters. One should not be ashamed of identifying oneself in civilized discussions.......Richard Gideon
Also, I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to the composition of non-voters regarding whether they were tansient or permanent.
Jumping to conclusions that because one declines to give their name they must automatically be ashamed, Mr. Gideon!
I would think a libertarian would side with the Founding Fathers and the Supreme Court.
"The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that the right to anonymousfree speech is protected by the First Amendment. A frequently cited 1995 Supreme Court ruling in McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission reads: Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . ."
I guess also you missed the comment made under the post "January 2017 Behind the Bubble."
AnonymousJanuary 11, 2017 at 7:06 PM
from personal experience i can tell you that the commission does a lot more than silence residents. in my experience, since i continued to speak despite their intimidation tactics, they did a whole lot of punishing, toxic lying and harassment behind the scenes. until brumfield and bendel (AT THE VERY LEAST) are out, i have NO FAITH IN MT LEBANON's corrupt little government. even then, the patterns are there and well known by municipal staff.
however, KUDOS to Jason M for highlighting the silencing tactics utilized so effectively by these "public servants."
Now regarding the demographics.
I agree the numbers do not reflect turnover and this would have to be investigated to support your claim or deny it.
But, there are enough numbers present to make some pretty educated assumptions.
30.6% of households were made up of individuals. Now that could mean there are a lot of widows or widowers.
It could also mean we have a lot of bachelors and bachelorettes.
Now then nothing definitive there unless you also consider K-12 enrollment figures for the school district.
If people are moving in to educate their kids and then rushing out after they graduate I would expect enrollment figures to remain fairly constant. They haven't, they've dropped dramatically over the past fifty years and we downsized the HS partially for that reason.
Then a personal observation however unscientific... I know of a number of streets that were populated with young kids. Now those same streets are populated by a lot of empty nesters and when talking to them they have no intention of moving out of Lebo.
Of course, there are several factors to consider like falling birth rates but without better numbers you and I can only make assumptions.
Perhaps sometime we will meet and have that conversation/debate you desire.
Calm down, 3:18 PM. Wow! I publish your comments. I publish his comments. It doesn't take much to set you off.
Elaine
Sorry I didn't publish your comment the first time you submitted it, 3:18 PM. Blogger sometimes puts anonymous comments in the spam folder. I found your two comments there. I don't always look in the spam folder. So take it easy, buddy.
Elaine
OK gave me a chance to edit my comment.
Sometimes though it isn't apparent that the captcha gets accepted.
Elaine and RG, accept my sincerest apologies.
I let frustration get involved in my repitive comment at 4:09.
I thought the big fish to fry were things like PAYT and being environmentally conscious with things like depositing toxic tire rubber on sports fields, the $900,000 magazine budget, annual $100,000 deer culls and the regressive stormwater fee.
My bad.
It's better that we debate whether anonymous comments are worthy and the migratory patterns of Lebo families and alert anyone that even is considering running for any of the available seats that 2/3s of potential voters don't care.
How could I have been so foolish.
I don't know what is going on here, 7:58 AM, but the 4:09 comment is mine. I'm not debating anonymous comments or migratory patterns of Lebo families. You need to let it go.
Elaine
Just to clear up the confusion I referenced the wrong time stamp, it wasn't 4:09 but should have been 3:18.
Fare the well.
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