Tuesday, February 14, 2017

Baiters Gonna Bait - no, the big news is below! OMG! UPDATED 3X

A man driving a four door grey Nissan pickup, much like this one except without running boards and roof rails, has been driving in the Sunset Hills area putting out bait in a white bucket. The Allegheny County Health Department has warned Mt. Lebanon that this method of distributing bait is not permitted.

Baiters have been walking along Old Farm near Brafferton and Fruithurst. The Nissan has been parked in different spots over the last week in the same area. The woods, located behind those houses on Fruithurst, Brafferton and Old Farm, are private property. Additionally, deer have been gathering around Newburn and headed toward Beverly Road. Lovely. More deer/car collisions.

Don't forget how deer are being baited toward Cochran Road, in Virginia Manor. Who is the mastermind baiting so close to busy roads? Wait. Let me guess. The guy who couldn't show up tonight to tell us how many deer were killed by archers. 


Oh my gosh! The archery report summary has been published on the Municipal website. THIRTY SIX deer were killed. We paid $9000 for thirty six deer to be killed by volunteers. There was one unrecovered deer by the WBI group and one not recovered from the Hunter Cooperative; resulting in a ~5% loss rate. From the report:
The consensus for this decline seems to be due to the decline of the deer population in their hunting areas.
I am so fucking mad. DeNicola convinced the asshole commissioners to spend almost $84,000 to kill more deer in the current round of "sharpshooting." AND THERE IS A DECLINE OF THE DEER POPULATION? Are you fucking kidding me?

Update February 15, 2017 2:28 PM I asked for an explanation to the numbers of deer kills in the public areas. I never seem to fully understand the logic.

Email exchange - Gillen and McGill 021517.

Update February 15, 2017 11:09 PM Ask any question about the deer killing and you'll hear "I don't know."

1. Why weren't there any deer killed in Robb Hollow or Public Works? "I don't know."
2. What kind of bait is being used to lure the deer? "I don't know."
3. How is the bait being distributed? "I don't know."
4. Is Jared Hudson doing the baiting? "I don't know."*
5. When will the sharpshooting begin? "I don't know."
6. Will a LeboALERT be sent out alerting residents when sharpshooting will begin? "I don't know."
7. Why aren't the specific hours listed on the website's FAQ? "I don't know."

Will someone make an audio recording of Kimberly Schevtchuk's comments from last night, please? It pretty much went like what I listed above, except for #1 and #4. I asked about Robb Hollow and Public Works. Because of Kimberly's direct questioning, the municipality issued a LeboALERT today and updated the website to show the specific hours of "sharpshooting."

*Mr. Meduho,

The sharpshooting contract is a time and materials contract between White Buffalo and the municipality. As such, all contact with the contractor will be through Mt. Lebanon to ensure that we are effectively controlling costs associated with the program.
 Knowing the identity of the individual placing the bait returns no value to the municipality.
 Keith

Update February 16, 2017 12:55 PM I am posting an audio recording of Kimberly Schevtchuk's comments here.


56 comments:

Anonymous said...

Why not donate inspected beef from Market District ? Much cheaper !

Anonymous said...

36 deer hunted from Sept.-Jan. Probably more parking tickets issued from Sept.-Jan.

E. T. Gillen said...

Don't forget that this year, 25 additional acres (Twin Hills) were added to the mix. This is unbelievable.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

Supposedly according to DeNicola's expert there are 800 deer in Mt. Lebanon and in 5 months they only took 36.
Didn't some lady say she'd have 6 or more in her yard all the time?
Where were these experts hunting?

Anonymous said...

Begs the question, if there has been a decline in the deer population why is the deer vehicle collision rate up?

Are they spooking the deer out into the roads?

Drawing deer unfamiliar with traffic patterns by baiting?

Jason Margolis said...

The taxpayers have been baited... and switched... We vote for commissioners, but get Mayors Morgan and McGill. The staff make decisions based on the ones most likely to keep their high-paying jobs--supporting special interest groups, like The Wealthy Deer Killers [also, a great late 70s punk band from The Lower East Side].





Jason Margolis said...

3 things from reading the report –

1) Of course they “recommend that the municipality continue to include this program as part of an overall deer management strategy.”

Similarly, I recommend that the municipality give me $10 every time I flush the toilet.

2) “Most, if not all, of those revisited reported a noticeable decline in deer sightings. In contrast, there were other new inquiries for enrollment from residents, with property that had never been hunted, expressing the exact opposite."

Translation: Deer tend to move from where they are being killed to where they are not being killed. This is known as the We Continue to Make More Money effect.

3) I can’t believe they killed the one transgendered deer. As if it’s not hard enough just to be a deer in MTL…

Anonymous said...

This is all so supremely absurd that I have to back up a bit. Are the commissioners sticking to their guns that the sole reason for killing deer in Mt. Lebanon is to reduce the deer/vehicle collisions by 50% in five years?

Sylvia

Anonymous said...

Some odd information and from an untrained, non-hunter some observations from the report.

#1. "The principal purpose for the continuation of this program is to address the deer-vehicle collisions and landowner complaints within the Municipality of Mt. Lebanon. Based on the safety and favorable outcome the 2015-2016 archery program, the Board of Commissioners voted to continue the program."

Favorable Outcome? How does DeNicola come up with this conclusion? The accident rate went up in 2016, not down, and new landowners are looking to get involved in the program which suggest they either sat on the sideline for the first round or the deer have moved to their property.
So I wish DeNicola would define exactly what the favorable outcome was. Was it a larger bank account for him? The contract for another cull?
It certainly wasn't a reduction in deer accidents!

#2. These numbers demand some in depth review. The report shows that just 16 deer were harvested in public areas.
Conservation District – 5
McNeilly Park – 4
Municipal Golf Course – 7
Public Works / Robb Hollow – 0
Twin Hills – 0

Does anyone find it odd that no deer were culled in Twin Hills or PW/Robb Hollow and only 4 taken in McNeilly Park. Why would that be? Deer are rather skittish, you'd think these 3 unpopulated areas would hold the largest concentrations of deer.

20 deer though were harvested from the donated properties!
Hmmm, I'm no scientist but I'd surmise that people are creating their own problems by attracting deer onto their property by planting stuff that attracts deer.
What's the difference between Twin Hills, McNeilly and Robb Hollow and the donated properties?
The three public areas are basically natural greenery. The private areas and golf course are heavily landscaped.

Maybe the advice to change our landscaping is the smart way to reduce our deer populations!

Anonymous said...

I had an email conversation with DeNicola a few weeks back before I was shut off by manager McGill. These two lines by DeNicola are very telling:

#1 "We are more focused on trying to address the many complaints by residents about deer impacting their properties."

Takeaway – the elected officials and our manager aren’t being very truthful when they say this program is about reducing deer/vehicle collisions.

#2 "Unfortunately, most of the remaining issues are in very tightly developed neighborhoods where lethal methods are limited if not impossible to implement."

Takeaway – lethal methods don’t work in Mt. Lebanon

The law of diminishing returns is a law affirming that to continue after a certain level of performance has been reached will result in a decline in effectiveness. I believe we have reached that level of diminishing returns, however, because the game commission is requiring Mt. Lebanon to continue its deer removal activities, the commission will continue to waste taxpayer money by continuing deer removal activities.

And as long as the commission continues to vote for deer removal activities team DeNicola will gladly continue to take our taxpayer dollars.

Nick M.

Anonymous said...

Makes perfect sense, Nick!

If Mt. Lebanon is so inundated with deer why do they need to bait?

Plus, doesn't baiting also reinforce the charade by luring deer into the municipality?

Anonymous said...

One thing we can be absolutely 100% sure of... the PIO will never ever post any of the questions asked here or do an investigation or an analysis of the items in the summary.

The municipality strictly follows the 3 monkey rule. 🙈🙉🙊

E. T. Gillen said...

Many thanks goes to the resident who insisted that a LeboALERT be sent out announcing the start of the "sharpshooting." Here is the ALERT:
This is an important notice from LeboALERT.


Sharpshooting will begin soon as part of the 2016-17 deer management program. For info, click on "deer management" at www.mtlebanon.org.

I also posted it on NextDoor, since Mt. Lebanon Police Department refuses to use that form of social media, even though they now have the capabilities to do so.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

Hey Nick--

I am impressed with your analysis. Just one question. Is the PGC REQUIRING Mt.Lebanon to kill deer? Do they have that authority?

No wonder Tony is laughing all the way to the bank.

Sylvia

E. T. Gillen said...

Nick, if you get a chance to answer Sylvia's question, could you also explain the significance of your question about Jared Hudson? Thanks.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

Sylvia at 11:08, if you go to the contract at http://www.mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/View/14736 and scroll down to the special use permit it is written on line 6. It has been a requirement for both the archery program and the sharpshooting program for the past few years. Simply stated...it's a scam. No wonder Tony DeNicola is laughing all the way to the bank. Job security guaranteed by the PGC and funded by the taxpayers of Mt. Lebanon.

Nick M.

Anonymous said...

Hi Elaine...if you read the contract it gives the names of 5 individuals from White Buffalo who will be coming to Mt. Lebanon, 4 of which who are authorized to sharpshoot. The fifth person, Jared Hudson, does not have a permit to sharpshoot in Pennsylvania and whose name does not appear on the special permit from the PGC. I'm assuming he would be the one baiting, otherwise why else add him into the equation. Someone is being paid $390 per day for 22 days to bait and prepare the sites.

Looking at Jared's most recent Facebook posts, it appears he's still in Alabama at his shooting club (in which he is actually present) which leads to the question, who really is doing the baiting? That's what I asked manager McGill because it is quite possible that we could get double billed if any of the other 4 came here for baiting and sharpshooting because the two overlap for like 12 days or so. McGill got snippy with me when I inquired about this with him.

It states in the contract that if any of names change or added to the program, WBI must get approval from the municipality. That's where it stands as of now. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the township is baiting, but that may be a stretch.

Nick M.

E. T. Gillen said...

Thanks, Nick. In my 11:09 PM update, I shared Keith's snippy response.
Elaine

E. T. Gillen said...

I saved a copy of the original FAQ which I saved in Google Docs here.

The hours for "sharpshooting" were originally stated as:
At what times and days will shooting occur? The special use deer control political subdivision permit allows culling activities to take place seven days a week. Shooting will take place in the late afternoon and after dark.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

11:08 pm and Nick 11:21 pm

11:08 asked, "Is the PGC REQUIRING Mt.Lebanon to kill deer? Do they have that authority?"

NO, the PGC is not requiring Lebo to kill deer, and NO, they do not have that authority.

What line 6 on the special use permit is saying, is that the PGC regulations require that a community has to have an active hunting program to get a permit to allow a vendor to implement a bait-and-shoot killing program.

The purpose for this stupid and self-serving regulation (which isn't law) is to make sure the PGC's hunter constituents get an opportunity to "hunt" and kill some trophy bucks before the bait-and-shoot killing program begins.

I put "hunt" in quotation marks, because there's no hunting involved in killing a tame and gentle deer that trust humans and walks right up to the "hunter" to be killed. Any man that can kill a defenseless deer, fawn, or any animal, this way is a man w/o honor or any moral principles. He's simply a coward and a killer.

The PGC isn't a conservation agency. That's a total ruse. They're a state sponsored blood "sport" killing agency. Their priority isn't the safety of Mt. Lebanon residents, but to expand their hunter constituents hunting opportunities, and to sell hunting licenses.

The PGC repeated this same hunting requirement before any non-lethal deer population mgt program could be implemented, i.e. contraception or sterilization. However, if the Mt. Lebanon Commission had any balls and determination to represent its constituents safety, they would reject the PGC's "hunting" requirement and demand to use a safe and non-lethal population mgt solution. They should stand together as one voice, and get their local state reps involved, i.e. Dan Miller (D) and John Maher (R), who both support non-lethal mgt, to petition the PGC to have a non-lethal program approved. If they did this, I have no doubt that the PGC would have given approval to Mt. Lebanon to implement a safe, non-lethal program w/o the use of lethal weapons.

Anonymous said...

Keith Mcgill's response to Elaine about why more deer weren't killed in some of the parks like Rob Hollow and Twin Hills is ridiculous. He continues to exaggerate this myth that there have been a lot of hunting going on in Mt. Lebanon for years. That's total BS! I'm sure there may have been a couple legal hunters in Lebo, and a few poachers trying to illegally kill some trophy bucks, but that's about it. How many homes have 50 yard safety zone distances from another occupied residence in Mt. Lebanon? Not many. How many residents have ever seen a hunter in their neighborhood or parks in the past? So to say that it's likely this large group of hunters in Mt. Lebanon not affiliated with Mt. Lebanon's deer hunting program that are killing all of these deer is beyond extreme exaggeration. BTW, if you look at the current deer report under this hunter category they killed 3 deer. As a matter of a fact, Mt. Lebanon's sponsored deer hunting program has likely attracted illegal deer poachers into the community; i.e. they don't stand out and no one questions or reports them anymore. So now we likely have more unknown poachers running around Mt. Lebanon with lethal weapons.

Anonymous said...

No doubt, Mcgill and the commissioners knew what the bow hunting deer kill totals were a long time ago, and before they approved DeNicola's $83,477.00 bait-and-shoot contract. I don't know, but I think someone quoted DeNicola as saying that there are 800 deer in Mt. Lebanon; however, in 5 months they could only find 36 deer to kill. IMO, knowing that fact, it was fiscally irresponsible and recklessly dangerous to approve $84, 477.00 for another bait-and-shoot deer killing program. DeNicola may bait-and-kill a reasonable number of deer, but he will likely be attracting those deer from outside of Mt. Lebanon's borders into Mt. Lebanon to kill. Plus, I don't trust his kill totals, i.e. no one is double checking these numbers for accuracy. He needs the numbers to look high, and so do the commissioners so they don't look like they wasted taxpayers money. So no questions will be asked, and no checking deer kill totals will be done.

Anonymous said...

McGill said WHAT!!!!!!!
Hunting has been going on in Mt. Lebanon for years!
For years we had an ordinance that made it illegal to discharge a firearm, shoot an arrow or even use a BB gun, so why was there any hunting going on. Plus, if it wasn't a legal cull, there are very few places in Lebo that are not in the Game Commissions fire zone restrictions.

So the question for our "manager" is with what we're highly paid and large police force doing while all this hunting was going on?

I say calling McGill a manager is a little inaccurate if you compare his duties to that of a real manager in the private sector.
A real manager MUST first manager his budget. If he exceeds it he just can't raise prices (- McGill's case taxes) to cover the shortage.
A real manager won't get away with missing the budget for long and will also not get away with delaying preventive maintenance to balance their budget.
A real manager must account for who's punching the clock and should know who is drawing a check and if their contractors are using documented workers.

Anonymous said...

1:50, you are correct, the PGC can not force Mt. Lebanon or any other community to kill deer, Mt. Lebanon could stop today if they wanted to and never kill one more deer, sorry for the confusion. With that said, this requirement nonetheless is forcing Mt. Lebanon to kill deer if Mt. Lebanon wants these special conditions granted to them by the PGC in the future. That's the point I was trying to get across to Sylvia. No matter how you state it the PGC still has the upper hand here by requiring Mt. Lebanon to continue with a hunting program until Mt. Lebanon decides to stop it. In a way the PGC has Mt. Lebanon backed into a corner which benefits the PGC because they can sell more tags which equals more profits for them.

Nick M.

Anonymous said...

Did I read somewhere that we are paying $95/hr for the baiter(s)?

I dunno, I can easily attract deer to my yard just by throwing out some apples and birdseed. Probably cost me less than two bucks (pun intended) and the municipality thinks it works so well, they'll fine me if they catch me doing it regularly!

So there are two suckers here-- we the taxpayers that are forking over that $95/hr and-- those volunteerarchers that are donating their time.

McGill's got so much municipal money to throw around he thinks $95/hr for baiting is controlling costs.

E. T. Gillen said...

12:29 PM, no baiting is $65/hour.
Elaine

Jason Margolis said...

Bingo 12:29pm. It's all about (very high) property taxes and EIT (which in MTL is 1.3% -- .3% above the norm for the area).

How much longer will the citizenry pay for this spending spree? Not much longer, from what the realtors are telling me.

Anonymous said...

Removal activity ? Mr. McGill, can't you call it what it is ?

E. T. Gillen said...

Thank you, Nick M., for making an audio recording of Kimberly's comments. It is available in my third update.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

OK, $65/hr.

Does it make any sense Mr. or Ms. Mt. Lebanon Homeower?

The municipality believes IT IS SO EASY TO ATTRACT DEER that they feel justified fining you (see ordinance below) if they want to for something as innocuous as leaving "residue" under your bird feeder! Residue!

On the other hand esteemed manager, Mr. McGill, believes he's prudently spending $95/hr on deer baiters!

Hey Mr. McGoo, oops I mean McGill, why not give residents that want to attract deer on their and public works employees a $3 bag of bird seed and tell them to throw it in their yards or the parks.

You'll save us a lot of money.

§501 Feeding of deer prohibited.

page9image1736
501.1 No person shall knowingly, purposely or intentionally feed deer, cause deer to be fed or provide food to deer in Mt. Lebanon on any public or private property. This prohibition includes, but is not limited to, disbursement of food on the ground, at a feeding station, in a feeding device, or in a container of any form; providing a salt or mineral lick/block; or any other means which serves to provide feed to any deer in Mt. Lebanon.

501.2 A person shall be deemed to have knowingly, purposely or intentionally fed deer, caused deer to be fed, or provided food to deer if the person places, or allows to be placed, wheat, pelleted livestock food, corn in any form, fruit, vegetables, hay or alfalfa, human food scraps, any form of commercially sold wildlife feed, birdseed or livestock feed, or any other edible matter that deer will consume on the ground or within the reach of deer. This prohibition shall include allowing residue that deer will consume to remain underneath a birdfeeder. This prohibition shall not include live vegetation such as ornamental landscaping, flowers, trees, vines, vegetable gardens, edible matter located either in an enclosed building or stored in a securely sealed package, or unmodified commercially purchased bird feeders or their equivalent when placed out of the reach of deer.

§503 Penalty. In addition to the remedies under §502, the Enforcement Provisions of Chapter I, §104.3 of the Mt. Lebanon Code shall apply to violations of this Ordinance.

Anonymous said...

12:29 pm We're back to the good old days where the deer killing contractor is basically writing a black check and no questions are being asked by the commissioners.

I sat in on all of the commission discussion sessions when the USDA Wildlife Services had the killing contract (before video), and I was astounding by the stupidity and lack of any questions concerning safety issues. Shooters were driving around and shooting in resident yards with high powered rifles surrounded by neighbors with no notification - not one question asked.

DeNicola's a con man. He knows when he's found the perfect mark, i.e. a wealthy community ready and willing to write him a blank check with no questions asked. He laughing all the way to the bank.

Just like Wildlife Services was writing a black check until Dan Miller and Raja were elected, and then the proverbial sh*t hit the fan. Dan and Raja were alpha dog commissioners. They didn't fall in line with the established group-think. They asked questions - a lot of questions. They challenged Wildlife Services. The blank check days were over. They asked questions about everything in the budget, and how Mt. Lebanon was being run. Steve Feller (mgr) looked scared to death - all blood draining from his face. Susan Morgans was quiet as a mouse. It was the first and only time I watched the Mt. Lebanon Commission function as a healthy commission. It was actually quite inspiring.

However, now we're back to the good old days, i.e. DeNicola makes an offer that the commission can't refuse, demands his annual $100,000.00 pay off.

Jason Margolis said...

Just listened to the audio. Kimberly is a folk-hero. Kimberly for Commissioner, please.

Anonymous said...

1:32 PM The no-feeding ordinance is a total joke, i.e. it exempts the gardeners from planting a smorgasbord of flowers and plants that are irresistible to deer. They're constantly feeding the deer, which is the main problem.

Anonymous said...

2:01, I don't know if we even need to go into all that history to see this Commission doesn't give a hoot about logic or even simple common sense.

Think about anything you might purchase. Let's say you decided you were tied of getting 20 mpg in the old Family Truckster so you debate what vehicle will increase your mpg to 40 mpg and go buy it.
You drive it around for a year and lo and behold you mileage didn't go up to 40 mpg, it actually went down to 10 mpg.
Would you buy another vehicle from that brand or would you do a little research before buying another vehicle from anyone let alone that one you did?

But that's exactly what our commissioner have done. They shopped around - a little bit - and hit upon a plan that they thought would reduce deer accidents by 50% over five years.
So they bought the plan from a slick 'have I got a deal for you' salesman.
After the first year, the number of accidents don't start to drop. They actually double!
Now our genius commissioners don't stop for a second and question why all that good money didn't do squat towards reducing accidents.
They're so enthralled they go right ahead and spend another $100,000 on archers and sharpshooters.
It's stupid oversight, plain and simple.

Anonymous said...

True 2:31, but that wasn't my point.

The point is, you can attract deer to your yards with something as simple and cheap as bird feeder residue.
The commissioners know it because they wrote a friggin' ordinance that says you can't leave your residue around to attract deer.

Yet Mr. McGill, manager thinks he's being fiscally responsible by contracting for $65/hr deer baiters.

Sure the deer feeding ordinance is a joke, the whole deer control program is a joke!

They could kill every single deer tonight and by tomorrow afternoon there would be new deer here from surrounding areas.

The real joke 2:31 is how long are we going to put up with this stupidity?

Anonymous said...

That $100,000 we spending on killing deer could be banked towards the turf replacement that'll be due in 6 or 8 years that we've put nothing aside for.

Anonymous said...

2:31, we might wonder if your 'main problem' claim is borne out by the fact that so few deer were taken in undeveloped parks and PW areas.
You'd think the people spending our money would want to discern why we have so many deer.
They don't though care, they're more interested in providing pest control for a select few.

Anonymous said...

Ditto Jason's comment about Kimberly!!!!

Anonymous said...

I'm baffled by the responses to Kimberly's questions regarding the baiting.
First, even if the contract with WB is all inclusive how do the commissioners audit if the contract is being fulfilled?
Just because Tony tells them they're fulfilling it?
Maybe they're not finding any deer because WB threw a box of half eaten donuts over a hillside and billed 30 hrs of baiting at $65/hr. Maybe they throw remnants of Bruegger Bagels into that gulley along Cochran and called that baiting.
The commissioners said they have no idea. They have no idea if the baiting complies with Allegheny County rules.

Didn't the commissioners take an oath upon taking office that they would comply with and enforce the laws of the Commonwealth.

How can they do that if they turn a blind eye?

E. T. Gillen said...

Keep in mind that there is no baiting for archery. That is why we're paying $83,477 to attract deer back into the area. Now you understand my anger?
Elaine

Anonymous said...

Understood no baiting in the archery cull.

Also, understand that the sharpshooting contract isn't a set $83,477. My understanding is to get that amount they need to kill 150 deer. Correct?

So it's in WB's favor to attract as many deer INTO Mt. Lebanon to get the maximum pay out. Doesn't matter if they lure 150 deer or 5,000 deer, they're only obligated to take 150 this cull.

Anonymous said...

From your January 2nd post Elaine, "Tony admits that the archers are being reimbursed for their supplies, funded by taxpayers!"

What exactly were these supplies? Did we buy the archers new compound bows, expensive arrows and deer stands. Were these supplies above the $9,000 to Tony. The archers were suppose to be volunteers!

I'd ask the commissioners, but their answer would probably be "we don't need to know, we just approve checks."

E. T. Gillen said...

No, 5:57 PM, the $83,477 is for 100 deer. The 150 deer contract is for much more.
Elaine

E. T. Gillen said...

$132,038 is what DeNicola is charging to kill up to 150 deer.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

Kudos to Kimberly! She rocks! You go girl!

Anonymous said...

Let's see if I'm following the logic here.
Archers and sharpshooters are experts and never miss their target, correct?
No deer were taken in PW/Robb Hollow and Twin Hills because of the number of people using those areas from sunset to 11pm, correct?

But, it's OK to cull in congested neighborhoods where people live 24/7 and in some instances the houses are only 10' apart, correct?

I'm thinking the next time I attend a commissioners meeting I'm wearing wading boots because the BS is getting very thick and very deep!

E. T. Gillen said...

1:58 AM, we don't know why there were no deer killed in Robb Hollow or Public Works. Keith told me that there may have been private hunters killing deer on private property bordering those areas. Yeah, you definitely need your wading boots for that one.

The archery hours were from 30 minutes before sunrise to 30 minutes after sunset - not sunset to 11 PM as you wrote.
Elaine

Anonymous said...

According to Janice Compron's Feb. 17th article in the Post Gazette: "Still, Mt. Lebanon hoped to increase the number of deer killed by adding acreage at Twin Hills Park to the hunt, he said. Brisk human activity at the park, however, prevented hunters from using that area.

“They did not remove one deer from Twin Hills Park,” Mr. McGill said."

OK got the hours wrong and assumed the reasons for no kills at Robb Hollow were the same as McGill's explanation for Twin Hills... brisk human activity prevented hunting there.

I guess human activity in densely populated neighborhoods doesn't count as human activity!

At least humans were warned that culling may be occurring in Twin Hills Park. Not such warning that it might be occurring very close to your backyard though.

Anonymous said...

Don't those private hunters still need a GC permit to hunt deer and as private hunters not involved in a cull don't they need to obey the safety zones?

Who's responsibility is it to check that they're in compliance with the law?

Anonymous said...

6:42 am. The safety zone for archery hunters statewide, including those using crossbows, is 50 yards from any occupied residence, etc. Around playgrounds, schools, nursery schools or day-care centers, the safety zone remains 150 yards.

BTW, I wish someone would explain to me why the safety zone is expanded to 150 yards when in proximity to a playground, school, nursery schools, and day-care centers, but only 50 yards from a backyard where the same children are playing on their property.

to answer your question - There is absolutely NO objective third party checking to see if hunters participating in Mt. Lebanon's bow hunting program are in compliance with the the safety zone law. There is no oversight.

Anonymous said...

6:39 am - I guess as Baba Wogan feared, just like those wittle old wabbits that eat her tulips, those wascal deer causing twouble are laying low until Elmer Fudd leaves the park.

"I'm afraid that once we start culling them, they'll lay low until it is over,"added Logan

Anonymous said...

BTW, I noticed in DeNicola's overview that resident requests for shooting on their property were being evaluated for safety "via satellite, in person, or a combination both". Right - I wonder how many properties are being evaluated remotely via satellite vs. in person. You can't properly evaluate a property to shoot high powered deadly weapons via google, but it appears that's what's being done. I doubt DeNicola is not flying in to Pgh. to evaluate these properties. This should be another serious safety concern.

Anonymous said...

I agree 1:35, it's one of those nonsensical, abitary rules goverment beuracacy comes up with.
Like I said, they didn't shoot in Twin Hills because of human activity, but they will shoot in a densely populated neighborhood without warning.
Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
The amazing thing is they'll say this stuff with a straight face.

Anonymous said...

Thinking about the cull and the secret donated private property.

I think it should be mandatory that any shot taken on these donated properties has the donors residence down range of the shot.

That way should the rare miss or ricochet occur the donor has the greatest chance of receiving the repercussions of that errant shot rather than their unsuspecting neighbors.

Hey, they think it's safe, they want deer killed so let them take the greatest risk.

Anonymous said...

Here's why donors should absorb the greatest risk from an errant shot.

Brumfield is quoted “We are not trying to keep internal municipal discussions private,” Commissioner Dave Brumfield said. “What is at issue is a number of residents that have volunteered their property for the program. In doing so, they did not expect to open themselves up to public ridicule or harassment from someone who might disagree with their beliefs on the issue of the deer cull.”

I'd recommend to the commissioner that residents didn't buy a home in Mt. Lebanon to open themselves up to the possibility of having someone point a deadly gun in their direction.

Mr. Brumfield, did you ever hear- sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me?

Bullets, commissioner, are a lot more dangerous than sticks or stones!

Here's a legal question for attorney Brumfield.

In this day and age, you're out in your yard or on your porch (have a carry permit) and you spy someone in a tree and you believe they are pointing a rifle in your direction would you have the legal right to return fire thinking your life was in danger?

Remember, because the municipality won't say where the private properties are so you have no idea if they're a culler or a nut.

E. T. Gillen said...

Here is some very bad news. Keith McGill told a resident that this is Year Two of a three year program.
Elaine