I belong to a closed group on Facebook called "Just" a Mt. Lebanon Housewife. There are over a thousand members in the group. It is a good group, with lots of suggestions, tips, and support. Last night, there was a lively, but civil discussion about school delays. It boiled down to the pros and cons of 10:00 AM starts vs. two hour delays. It brought back lots of memories and reminded me of how tough parenting can be, especially when trying to juggle family responsibilities and work.
A couple of members had several threads going at the same time, both pertaining to today's delay.
This post, however, got ugly.
Original Post
Diane Wissler Rattay
Mt. Lebanon schools will have a 10:00 start for students and a modified Kindergarten schedule on Tuesday, January 2, due to weather conditions.
Diane Wissler Rattay commented on her post in "Just" a Mt Lebanon Housewife.
[Asking group members to sign up for Twitter and Tweet the Superintendent]
This would be an awesome reason to sign up! You know you want to!! All your friends are doing it! </Peer pressure>
When it was originally called, the wind chill advisory was until 9am, so I get it. It has been extended until noon on Weds, now.
Diane Wissler Rattay I would tweet, but can't. He blocked me on Twitter.
Elaine Trigg Gillen - if you criticized, name called & publicly humiliated me, the way you have him & others, I'd block you, too.
And now it gets ugly. He is a public servant who is blocking a taxpayer from a School District Twitter Account. Give me a six percent raise and pay me over $200,000 a year, and you can call me anything you want. Heck, people do it to me now and I don't get paid a cent.
There's nothing ugly about my statement, it's truth. Not once have I seen you at a school board meeting, offering your opinions. Hiding behind a keyboard & monitor, making veiled threats, accusations & bullying is what's ugly. I'd be careful, if I were you. Someday, someone is going to strike back & sue you for slander, defamation of character, and a slew of others. But what do I know? I'm just a Mt. Lebanon Housewife.
Diane, you might want to check all the recordings of every school board meeting from 2010-2014 on my website lebocitizens.com. Guess who recorded them? Me. I attended every single meeting until the school board directors were so rude that I stopped going. Take the time and listen to them. I was polite. They were not. I don't hide behind a keyboard. I don't make veiled threats. I back up everything I say with facts. It isn't slander or defamation of character if it is true.
That's just golden who liked your comment.
[Libby Windsor, Susan Morgans’ daughter]
I'm sure she doesn't like her mother being called names.
Again, pay me over $100,000 a year and get paid to go to NYC, and write about drinking in Napa, you can call me anything you want. I don't get a dime. Her mother has gone after me several times at commission meetings. It has all been recorded. Again, facts.
Dozens of people I know are paid to travel. And many of them make more than $100,000. Maybe Ms. Morgans deserves a raise.
That may be true. I am sure she will get one. Do you feel better now?
I was never feeling poorly.
You have taken a post about a 10:00 AM start and turned it into bashing me.
Actually, I haven't said one negative thing about you.
Please stop. It is going on an hour.
Have a good evening, Ms. Gillen.
******
The post, in its entirety, was removed by the administrator of the group. I don't believe I know Diane Rattay, but she sure knew me. It turns out that she is a PTA Vice President. She also chairs half the committees at that school.
I have decided to post this thread on Lebo Citizens for posterity. I hope that the readers were not turned off and still wrote to the school board, asking them to consider going back to two hour delays, instead of 10:00 AM starts.
Update January 2, 2018 8:47 PM Peters Township is leaving the final decision up to parents. District says students who are absent or tardy will be excused.
Update January 3, 2018 7:20 PM I have been kicked out of the Secret Facebook Group.
The moral of the story is that PTA rules this town and don't mess with them. One woman was very concerned that I would post their inner most secrets on the blog. I told her that I only shared what was directed toward me and my comments. Not good enough. I was kicked out.
Update January 2, 2018 8:47 PM Peters Township is leaving the final decision up to parents. District says students who are absent or tardy will be excused.
Update January 3, 2018 7:20 PM I have been kicked out of the Secret Facebook Group.
You are unable to see the contents of this group because you are no longer a member.The group was not happy that I shared the deleted post on this blog. They wanted me to remove it, and just keep it our little secret. Diane published a link to this post and shared it with the thousand members. Diane also asked me to remove the name of the school where she is PTA Vice President, which I did. In addition, the PTA President of the school asked me to delete the post, which I won't. She was defending Diane for all the wonderful work she does for PTA. I guess she didn't realize that we had kids at Foster School from 1973-2004. We outlasted Barbara Float! Both my husband and I were members of PTA. When he was disabled, he went to all the Mellon PTA meetings. Instead of focusing on the hour long bashing of me, the "ladies" were upset with how I reacted to the bashing. Why does it remind me of an abusive relationship where the victim is told not to tell anyone what happened? I have a feeling that Diane is still a member of "Just" a Mt. Lebanon Housewife and they can continue to bash me and this blog. I loved how the members were thanking the two administrators of the secret Facebook group for all the work they do keeping the Facebook page going. I thought that was pretty funny. The administrator then removed Diane's link to my blog and the comments that went with it and said to knock it off. Then I was kicked out of "the sisterhood."
The moral of the story is that PTA rules this town and don't mess with them. One woman was very concerned that I would post their inner most secrets on the blog. I told her that I only shared what was directed toward me and my comments. Not good enough. I was kicked out.
66 comments:
It's libel - not slander Ms. Wissler Rattay. If your going to threaten Elaine - get it right.
The goons of the oligarchy often confuse vocal citizens with prominent public officials. Commissioners and police chiefs and public (mis)information officers must always be ready for greater public scrutiny and critique than a private citizen - even one with a blog.
I see there is another 10:00 AM start tomorrow morning. I dare not check Facebook.
Elaine
What is the difference between a 10 am start and a 2 hour delay? Either one is a huge pain for working parents.
How unfortunate that someone who is in charge of coordinating so many activities couldn't see you as an asset. You are a problem solver who knows how to inform the public. Someone like you Elaine who truly cares about your community. Someone who believes in fairness & wants people to do be responsible at their own job. Is that too much to ask for?
9:51PM, did you see the update? Peters Township didn't have a delay. Instead, they are leaving it up to parents to make the final decision. If students are late or absent, they will be excused.
Elaine
Mrs. Morgans is not paid to travel. She is the Public Information Officer for Mount Lebanon. For. Mount. Lebanon. She doesn't deserve a raise.
But what is the difference between starting on time and 10 am when the temperature doesn't change between the two times? The delays are nice for sleep but hectic for drop-offs and parents.
M
There is an implicitly economically-biased assumption that in certain, rarified communities -- mommy doesn't work, or work much, and therefore dropping off at 8am, 10am, whatever, no big deal.
[See: June 2017 BtB "Beyond Brownies"]
Pittsburgh public had a 2 hour delay as did most of the communities surrounding Pittsburgh: Shaler, Moon, Gateway, Keystone Oaks, Ambridge,Aliquippa, which “certain, rarified communities “ are you speaking of?
Nevertheless, there is an assumption about how women can/do/should spend their time in MTL that working mothers and stay-at-home mothers alike should be equally offended at.
Additionally, the argument that "I had a bunch of kids in a short amount of time - it was economically beneficial to stay home" is one that only the privileged can make... in other communities, some enclaved right here in the Pittsburgh area, such individuals would be accused of being a drain on the system.
To Jason's point, that the administration's taking into consideration that most Mt. Lebanon kids have someone at home to drive them to/from school at any time of the day is an improper basis on which to decide weather-related school delays, please read the following from an article in today's Post-Gazette:
"High temperatures Thursday and Friday will be in the single-digits, with sub-zero wind chill, officials said, and that kind of cold can snarl traffic, freeze pipes and cause frostbite within 30 minutes. The lows are expected to be 3 on Wednesday, 5 on Thursday, zero on Friday and minus 2 Saturday.
Classes in scores of school districts in the region were canceled or delayed Tuesday and Wednesday due to the extreme cold to prevent students from having to wait for their buses in dangerously low temperatures."
Buses. Yes, that is the key word. Mt. Lebanon does not provide school buses for children. So, a completely different analysis must be employed by the Mt. Lebanon School Superintendent. He is charged with starting with the assumption that all Mt. Lebanon school children will be walking to school on any day, regardless of weather. In reality, many of those students will be driven to school or drive their own cars to school. But, that is not relevant to the decision to close or open the schools on a day when exposure to temperatures on days like yesterday, today and for the remainder of the week can cause frostbite in only 30 minutes. Even in Mt. Lebanon, there are always students who walk to school, many for more than 30 minutes.
Dr. Steinhauer, please stop looking to USC and other school districts' decisions to close/open/delay on frigid days. That's like comparing apples to oranges.
I agree with 10:40. Also with respect to Jason's argument about rarified communities, when it comes to weather related school closures, Mt. Lebanon stands out as the ONLY school district in the region without buses. Presumably, in other communities, children are not expected to walk 30 minutes or more to board their school buses. Use your head Dr. Steinhauer.
Mt Lebanon is not the ONLY, Northgate does not bus. The also had a delay
Ohhhhh. Well then, they probably should have closed yesterday like North Allegheny did.
Where is Northgate? I am guessing that Dr. Steinhauer does not look to Northgate when making his decisions about whether to close, open, delay. But that is not relevant. The same analysis pointed out by 10:40 AM also applies to other non-busing districts, including Northgate, wherever that may be.
I think that kids in busing communities are probably at greater risk. Let's be honest, on a frigid day (without a delay) most kids are being dropped at school. But in Bethel Park (or USC, etc.) kids are standing on the corner waiting for a bus that may be delayed or didn't even start. I agree that Dr. Steinhauer shouldn't be looking to other communities and that delays for cold are largely useless (and probably result in more kids walking in the cold than a regular start time), but not for the reasons stated by 10:40.
As for the rarified communities non-sense, it's just Dr. Margolis. I find if you skip his - always negative, rarely based upon anything other than Mt. Lebanon stereotype - comments this site is 182% (approximately) more valuable.
I just looked for Minnesota and North Dakota school delays or closings. Not many found. Fargo, ND had their first day back today. It's below zero even now with a minus 20 wind chill. These kids are getting to school. Bundle the munchkins up and send them on their way whether they are walking or riding.
12:10 p.m. google is your friend. Northgate is Bellevue.
12:48pm, I appreciate your statistical preciseness!!--What's the p-value on that?
2:38,
Geez. Thanks for introducing me to my two new friends, Google and Northgate.
12:58,
I care as much about Fargo, ND as I do about Northgate. Again, apples and oranges.
Parents in Mt. Lebanon don't want their kids to stay home because it interrupts the parents' schedules. Get a grip and put the interests of your kids first.
12:48,
You misquoted me and my reasoning. Also, Bethel Park was closed yesterday. Keep trying.
On your UPDATE -- This is typical of the fake 'diversity' and 'unity' and pseudo-"liberalness" of many in MTL. They believe in these ideals except when it is uncomfortable for them, pushes them to question themselves, counters their worldview, etc.
Let them have their silly self-serving echo chamber.
Why was the link shared ? Why were you told to delete the post when the link was shared ? Too much time on their hands, I say.
Don't sweat the small stuff Elaine. Just keep doing what you are doing and thanks !
Elaine---
Sorry the girls' website dropped you like a bomb. You are much better off without access to this group's FB page.
I asked the same question, 7:50 PM. I was told "I think it’s pretty obvious why she shared it, and you’re being deliberately obtuse." I could say who said that, but the PTA will probably put a contract out on me. Or at least have Beth Evans go to the podium and use some more profanity at a school board meeting. Oops, that's going to cost me.
Elaine
I love what the administrator wrote:
Just a reminder.... this page is for friendly, helpful and civil conversations about things we think are important to one another. Monitoring any Facebook page is a big PIA.
You may not always like our decisions to remove a post or not give permission for a post but we take much thought and consideration in these actions.
So... please respect us and the page and the members or we will be forced to remove you!
We are busy moms who have kept this page going to help other busy Mt lebanon ladies.
So please no bashing one another, no copying our posts and slandering others on other websites, no political bullshit, no bullying... you get the picture right? We are grown ass women so please act like it.
PS. If you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say it at all. - my mom
I guess the sin is not in bashing, being uncivil, or unfriendly, but in copying the posts, even deleted ones which were directed toward ME.
For goodness sake, Google libel vs. slander. Please.
Elaine
Timmy must be loving every minute of this. He blocked me on Twitter, and I mentioned it, which released the hounds.
Elaine
They are acting like the snobbish, middle school clique that many of the working MTL described them to be in Beyond Brownies. They get their kicks out of excluding others... sick...
Exactly, Jason. Here is the link to your June 2017 BtB Beyond Brownies.
This also reminds me of the time when I was speaking to then President Ed Kubit when PTA member Kristen Linfante started heckling me during my time during Comments. Ed gave ME the gavel.
Elaine
And that meeting was recorded too.
Elaine
They're "Just" the Mt. Lebanon Mean Girls.
Why don’t you stick to your anti-deer cull crusade? Lord how nice it must be to be a mother of one child. So much time to be a useless meddler!
3:33PM,
I'm trying to understand the apple and oranges comparison. My children staying at home doesn't effect the schedule for either my wife or me. On work days we'd do the same exact thing whether there is school or not. The only difference is that one of us yells up the stairs that it's time to get moving two hours later on delay days. We are both at home all day.
I stand by my comment. If children in Fargo, ND can go to school in sub-zero temperatures, Mt. Lebanon children can go to school in above-zero temperatures. They're not going to get frostbite on a 30 minute walk to school wearing winter coats, gloves, wool hats and scarves. I draw the line at no shorts.
9:49 PM, I guess you didn't read the update. I said "I guess she didn't realize that we had kids at Foster School from 1973-2004. We outlasted Barbara Float! Both my husband and I were members of PTA. When he was disabled, he went to all the Mellon PTA meetings." Or do you think that I had ONE kid who attended Foster School from 1973-2004?
Meddling?
So the bashing continues here.
Elaine
E.T. Gillen, posting the transcript of a CLOSED GROUP conversation is very inappropriate. Shame on you! It’s a good thing you got axed from the group.
Yes, shame on me for exposing someone attacking me that was so inappropriate, it was deleted. But never mind that part. It is the fact that I exposed the hour long attack. Good thing I accepted your anonymous comment. And I am the one accused of " Hiding behind a keyboard & monitor, making veiled threats, accusations & bullying is what's ugly." I get it now. What do they call that? Projecting?
Elaine
That was the 898th person reading this post. Thanks for promoting my blog, Diane. But it seems like there are more haters.
All this came about over a post about two hour delays vs. 10:00 starts and I mentioned that the superintendent is blocking a taxpayer from a School District Twitter feed. And the school board directors permit Timmy to continue this bs.
Elaine
Hang tough Elaine. These NASTY PEOPLE are quietly despised by many if not most of their neighbors. Small, backbiting and mean. They come and go. You are a rock.
Elaine, I was so sorry to read how poorly your were treated! Diane was extremely rude to you. Is this how she treats people? And she is a PTA Vice-President? Shame on her, treating you this way. You didn't deserve this! Please know that many people appreciate all that you do.
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear." - Martin Luther King, Jr
Mary E
9:55,
You are lost. Give it up. You don't get things in these discussions because you do not read or comprehend very well. I don't mean this as a criticism. I am just not going to continue to defend myself against your baseless or fabricated scenarios.
10:36pm is exactly right. Some who will go on the record, most who won't out of fear, think these people (many of whom I guess found a home in this FB hate group of "grown ass women") are shallow, vapid, mean, lazy, and empty.
Jason, you should hear what they say about you. So much hate from so few women. There were slightly more than one thousand women (now minus one) who were generally very nice. The FB group moderators also had another group. Gee, I better check to see if I was thrown out of that group too. I promoted events here on Lebo Citizens, was respectful, and helped where I could.
I am not surprised that a PTA officer was behaving like that, 11:48 PM. Think about all who have been on PTA Council. Mary Birks, Elaine Cappucci, Beth Evans, Jo Posti, Kristen Linfante, not to mention family members of school board directors. Do you remember the controversy involving a Hoover PTA president? The PTA wrote a letter of apology to Jim Cannon, when he was running for school board? There have been meetings where women were so mean, that some members left meetings crying. Remember how there were four officers who submitted a resignation letter? I posted that letter here on Lebo Citizens.
Elaine
It's definitely the ring-leaders that are the problem.
As for what they say about me, I love it:
"To be criticized by idiots is to be praised."
For the haters who keep submitting emojis in their comments, they don't come through.
Elaine
Diane was also removed from the group. There seems to be a control issue going on since the same people / person? runs all of the Lebo FB groups.
@11:42: the person who runs those groups is a total control freak who thinks being the admin of a Facebook group makes her queen of Mt Lebanon.
This is how it's being handled now on the page: Good afternoon ladies,
I would like to address a concern. Recently a member was removed from the group. She feels as if she was treated unfairly and is making her opinion known on her blog. Some of the things that have been said are not very nice. Although I appreciate everyone’s support on this page, I have decided to not engage in any way. Anyone who posts anything negative or defamatory about this former member will be removed immediately. We are above that. This page is about supporting each other as mothers and as women.
Honestly they should rename the page “Just Mt Lebanon housewives bitching about the Go-Zone and 10,000 recommendation requests for a pediatric dentist”.
Again, I have to comment and say this has nothing to do with Mt. Lebanon thinking itself to be elite compared to other communities. I had the audacity to comment on the Peters Township School District site about how the area around the schools was fine and there was no need for a 2-hour delay in response to the hyperbole being used by others who were criticizing anyone and everyone for the decision to send kids to school, and I was "told" on to the facebook administrator and my post removed.
Apparently the issue of 2 hour delays is the new hot button topic? I would think in general people have more important things to worry about.
That vibe comes across hardcore; especially lately with the almost daily rule reminders. Kind of sad - and creepy.
There is definitely NO reason for these two hour delays. People just don’t want to fight with their kids about wearing the appropriate clothes. The kids rule the households around here.
@4:14 - Because kids can wear shorts 2 hours later when it's one degree warmer? That's absurd!
This is classic.
LeboAlert:
The Wednesday, January 10, meeting of the Mt. Lebanon Community Relations Board is cancelled.
Susan Morgans is the municipal liaison of the Mt. Lebanon Community Relations Board. There is no need for a meeting, right?
Elaine
They should just come out and say 'there is no need for community relations - we do whatever we want, and by the way, thanks for all your money'.
And forget about the 2-hour delay wars -- MTL SD just CANCELLED already for tomorrow. Did I miss the snowstorm? Do the "Just" Women approve of this?
Jason,
I would rather send my kid out in a snowstorm than below freezing temperatures and wind chills. Tomorrow is slated to be dangerously frigid. Speaking of the Just Women.....
Hahahahha, 6:54pm. Not sure I agree with you on the weather, it's really about driving safety for closing schools -- the kids don't have class outside.
But as for your last comment--that really says a mouthful.
You guys do know that much more northern regions also have children who also go to school in the winter, right?
Those women in the Closed Group on Facebook have nothing to do with their time. They all need to get a job, stop whining, and grow up. Elaine, you give much to the community. They need to be ignored.
I'm on that group and don't know 99% of them but what I read makes me want to unplug,,
what a group of self-important women,, all I can say is their parents prob told them at every chance that they were the BEST at everything...while picking up a grandchild at a Lebo elementary school 3 x a week, I see them and hear their conversations. i find a LOT of them very spoiled and extremely image conscious.. and I always wonder how to they afford the newly purchased $300,000 house, the private photographers, the best beach vacations and of course the Volvo suvs??? oh I think I can guess,,it's good old mom!!
"We are busy moms who have kept this page going to help other busy Mt lebanon ladies." -- They do realize that it is not the 1950s, right?
"Anyone who posts anything negative or defamatory about this former member will be removed immediately." -- Translated this means "anyone who disagrees with me will be banned."
In my opinion, the Mt. Lebanon schools (ESPECIALLY the PTAs) make the assumption that there is a stay at home mom creating the perfect home for her man and her children. It is why people who did not grow up here find it to be so very, very odd.
What is wrong with group being for moms? How does that equate to 1950? And your comment about “anyone who disagrees with me will be banned.” Is completely wrong, the moderator was actually saying she doesn’t want negative comments about anyone on the page.
I did not grow up here and I find the whole thing odd. I am a busy single mother who tries to create a loving warm non judgmental home for my children not a husband. You are being very closed minded and seem to be judging the women who do stay home and try to create a nice environment for their FAMILY! Mt Lebo has some wonderful people in it and some not so wonderful ones, as all communities do. I think we would all be better off if we supported one another and not tried to shame anyone for what they choose.
4:45 PM, the moderator was saying that if anyone said anything negative about me (this former member), they will be removed. There were some really nice women in that group, but since I have been kicked off, the mean and unapproved comments have increased considerably here.
Elaine
“Mean and unapproved comments” translated means “anyone who disagrees with me won’t have their comment published”
When it is hate filled, off topic, or contains profanity, it doesn't get approved. I disagreed with you and published your comment.
Elaine
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