Susan would never do this. I received some photos of Williamsburg Park that a resident wanted me to share.
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| Popular spot - corner of basketball court. |
Pretty disgusting, but here is a before and after:
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| Pre chalk drawing |
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| Poor Ella. Did she step in it? |
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| Next to the bench |
Yes, Lebo Citizens has reached a new low. Certainly journalism at its finest. But this is what we will be seeing in all the parks, if this goes through. Dave Brumfield sure has his work cut out, cleaning up the crap in our town, both in and out of the Commission Chambers.
Update September 1, 2013 5:40 PM All pilot program fees collected will be used for repainting the official car used by the Commissioner implementing the Pilot Program for his or her ward.
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87 comments:
Last time I checked there was no ordinance that required you to pick up dog poop if you are just walking around the neighborhood. If that is the case why would you expect people to pick it up in the park?
Actually there us an ordinance to clean it up anywhere.
What we really need are police cameras in the parks. These would protect our kids, our pets and our property. The Chicago police have used them very effectively. We can do the same.
https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/About%20CPD/POD%20Program
John David Kendrick
Wow, I've been watching this blog for 10 hours and I am already shocked! You know who I know didn't leave that poop unpicked up... a leashed dog walker. Any dog on a leash that pooped on the cement, next to a bench, in front of the swing set would be cleaned up after immediately. It's the occassional stray who got out of his backyard and went for a romp that might cause anything like this. I walk the park constantly and never, EVER see loose scat like this.
A new low already.
I think David Brumfield should clean up his mess in Williamsburg Park. Provide your own bag(s) David.
Mitch and Dina don't own property near Williamsburg Park according to County property records. So who are they?
12:09 AM, uh yeah, they live there.
Elaine
Then they didn't use their real names.
11:03 AM, they used their real names and gave their addresses at many meetings.
Elaine
Since we have one of the responsible dog owners commenting, I have a question...
How do you clean up the dog urine?
Or does that not count?
Saw another dog on a retractable leash in my neighborhood park. So what about those retractable leashes that go about 25'? Will they be permitted in Dave's pilot program? Doesn't the current ordinance say that dogs are permitted on leashes with the maximum length of six feet in the three passive parks, Robb Hollow, Twin Hills, and Bird? Notice how Dave's passive park over on McNeilly isn't listed?
http://mtlebanon.org/DocumentCenter/View/9449
We get dogs on those leashes all the time in our active park.
Why do we have this ordinance again? We need to pitch the Home Rule Charter. None of it is being followed.
Elaine
Hi Elaine, thanks for letting folks know I exist!
Was there any discussion on the camera idea? Thought that had possibilities....
Also, what about the timeshare idea? Leashed dogs at certain times, so parents would be aware that there may a leashed dog in the area....
Under the pilot program, we only have one dog (not including me, LOL) so we would only need one permit.
Hi Dina,
Yes, you do exist! People are funny.
The next meeting is Sept. 10. I believe the timeshare idea will be considered. I think that is an excellent compromise. I resent the increased police presence element of this fiasco. One minute, the municipality and the school district join forces to create a drug task force, and then we hear that our police will be checking for dog permits. Will the pooch permit offenders be listed on the police blotter along with the drug arrests and the DUI's? What a waste of time for our police force. This whole thing is a fire drill. Nobody enforces the ordinances that we have.
Elaine
Dina- Anon here.
LOL, but no one ever called you a dog and I defy you to show us were they did.
The comment was "Mitch, I don't [think] The "license to walk" is meant fou your wife."
I'll say it again, my understanding is that the pilot program doesn't require the walker to have a permit. The permit is for the dog! You say you have one dog so Mitch doesn't have to "borrow" anything, he has one if you buy one.
Mitch accuses me of being cryptic in my ethos comment. I thought I was being pretty straight forward with my 3 examples. Here's more. Why do we have to put speed bumps on residential streets whwre the speed limit is clearly marked? Why is a citizen suing the municipality for bidding violations? Why did the school district sue tbe municipality for parking spaces.
Look at the number of hit and runs on the police blotter. I'm not being cryptic, I'm saying exactly what I mean and backing it up with examples.
You on the other hand wrote about me:"Anonymous, I'm not "making you out to be anything", you are doing great all on your own."
What am I doing a good job of on my own? Dina? So who's really being cryptic?
Now then, hopefully we're done with calling people names so back to the issue.
You say put the program to a vote. I agree, a referendum. I'd vote no, but I only have one vote.
You say no fee. I agree
You say the police shouldn't have to police adults. I absolutely agree! Their job is tough enough without having to monitor dog waste.
The camera idea, I'm up in the air about. I know of a couple of communities that have them on their ballfields. So good you could watch your kids ballgame while your out of town. Neat. But it does remind me of Orwell's '1984'. Plus do we need to spend money where to date their haven't been major problems? Who'll monitor those cameras 24/7?
So, to review. I'd like to see the park remain dog free. But if a majority of my neighbors want dogs in the park - who am I to stand in the way.
As for the pilot program Dina, we seem to be on the same page for the most part.
Maybe the municipality can buy the two gently used renovation cameras from the school district.
No one needs to monitor the cameras. They are used after an incident is reported. Did you know that Market District has cameras for their parking lot? So if your Hummer gets scratched, you can find out how it happened.
Elaine
Anon again.
I forgot to add Dina's husband's comment.
Besides claiming he would ignore the pilot program and the rules earlier in the debate he posted: "As for the fee, I think it's bullocks, but IF the pilot program goes into affect, I promise to borrow my wife's "License To Walk"."
LOL - that was funny by itself. Oops, shoulsn't have wrote that, I'm in for it now.
Which prompted my reply.
Thanks Elaine, I did not know that about Market District.
Yes, camers are great for recreating the incident and for monitoring Williamsburg the cost probably isn't much. But, once you do it there, how long until every park needs one? Cameras, feeds, monitors, storafe - it'll all add up.
Look at the police blotter and the number of cars involved in break ins and hit and runs in our municipal lots and Washington Road. These are incidents that cost people lots of hard earned money. Monitoring for potential dog droppings seems rather inconsequential in my opinion. Especially if you have adults that follow rules.
I was trying to find out how many would be willing to pay the fee. I have only heard of one. Brumfield has said on occasion that he estimates 100 dogs. I have not been to Williamsburg Park recently, but can the area sustain 100 dogs?
Elaine
That is why your blog is such a great community service.
It gives us time to work out details, examine ideas, uncover problems.
Mitch and Dina don't like fee proposal. I don't either.
The whole pilot program at least as indicated here by the few commenting dkesn't appear to hace much support in its present form.
When one is discussed then Ill let my commissioner(s) know my position and sign my name.
Hi Bloggers, I have SO much cooking do today it's crazy. Here's my comments:
I think the timeshare idea is also a fair compromise becuase the parents would understand they may run into a leased dog, and the enforcement might be easier to schedule than based on ad hoc calls.
I like the camera idea becuase dogs are not the only issue with the park, and I think it would help ensure safety for all citizens using the park.
Elaine, I don't think if we ran the polit program there would ever be 100 dogs in the park at the same time, more throughout the day. Since I work full time I can only walk my dog in the evening, and I wouldn't always choose to take her to the park.
Just some thoughts, Sunday dinner here I come!
Any Commissioner that proposes dogs in the parks automatically becomes the official doggie poop collector responsible for that park. All public complaints in e-mail, social media, postal mail, telephone and public meeting comment forms should be directed to that Commissioner. MLPD will not, never will patrol parks for doggie poopers.
Oh my God, this is all so stupid. The commissioners have nothing better to do? 100 dogs? What an idiot. If you go to a popular dog park, like south Park, even on the busiest day you see maybe 30...Maybe. Why do Brumfield and Linfante have to make up numbers when it comes to animals? Why can't they be honest?
Dina, I agree the timeshare idea warrants some discussion.
Since the park is closed at dusk and opened at what, sunrise what if we opened the hours of say 1 hour before dusk thru 2 hours after for dog walking. Same in morning.
Would that satisfy the pro-dog people?
Plus, actually you would be doing the community a service. I don't think you are an intentional lawbreaker.
By being in the park at those hours you would be discouraging vandals and other 'illicit' behavior.
Of course there shouldn't be any fees or permits require in this plan, its your park as well as mine.
I could live this test, it actually seems like a good idea.
Anyone see any problems?
12:00 PM, I think Dave needs to have the staff create a dog "incident" map of Williamsburg, as Kristen has implemented with a deer incident report. It should include doggie leaks, poop piles, unleashed sightings, and all animal control calls. After all, this too, is a safety issue.
We could have an aerial survey done to actually count the dogs.
Elaine
Right on ! The survey should extend two miles outside of Williamsburgh park borders.
Well Dina, this anonymous poster even though I opppse dogs in the park tried to join your compromise, so please don't accuse me of being uncompromising.
Seems you have others you have to move.
Hope that isn't too cryptic for your husband.
Leash Garrett, they do because they can with impunity.
Kubit did adter the petition presentation. Claimed he a grearer number hehad spoken to or received emails from supporting the costly renovation.
He never had to produce supporting evidence of his ckaim and he got re-elected.
One of the first things I'd include in the new Home Rule Charter... If an elected official makes a claim like those presented on Williamsburg Park by Mr. Brumfield, if qyestioned or disputed, they must produce hard copy evidence.
I beliece in ciurts heresay evudence is inadmisable, why should elected officials be allowed to use it?
Hey everyone...the spaghetti sauce is on and the picnic for for tomorrow up is underway.
I admit, I agree with the blogger that the camera could be a bit Big Brother, but I do like that is addresses several issues with the park.
The timeshare thing I think makes sense. I'm fine with a pilot of window of time.
Fair warning, I'm not representative of all that want to walk dogs in the park, and believe it or not, neither is My rebel Mitch.
I just thought by starting to blog here maybe we could compromise, and I think we have a couple good alternatives! Everyone isn't going to get 100% of what they want, but I hope it eases the tension in my neighborhood.
I do agree with most of you that Lebo has way bigger fish to fry, to spend so much time and money on this when there are options for fair solutions seem silly.
Dina, I thinik we started this conversation as complete adversaries and I do not claim to represent all the anti dog people.
The shift idea to me is a fair test, unless someone shows me overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Told you I'd like to leave the park rules as they are so I'm not going out of my way to convince people for changes. Sorry you're on your own to get people to accept the test. Right now I see no reason Not to try it for a limited time and see what happens.
What's next, a proposed dog cull? As a matter of fact, I'm going to propose that. I'll throw around numbers and make wild assertions like "there are packs of wild dogs randomly eating garbage and humping cats. I estimate there are 87 dogs per square foot and something needs to be done." We really have become a joke as a town. Between the school board and the recent collection of commissioners, how can anyone take Lebo seriously and then actually commit to moving here?
4:49 PM, I'm still waiting for a dog incident report created by staff indicating all the various incidents to be assigned on the map with the same color dot, (brown?) and maybe different breeds designating multiple incidents.
The deer incident report certainly paints an accurate picture, so Commissioner Dave should submit this as documentation. I wonder what methodology will be used when evaluating the pilot program, after 90 days.
Also, will the permits be good after the pilot program is over and becomes an amended ordinance, or will the $25 fee for ninety days translate to a $100 fee paid annually? So many questions.
Elaine
Yes Elaine there are so many questions. Like is it $25 per dog or $25 per household. Can the permit be transferred between dogs or can the owner walk one dog, go home get the other dog and come back to save $25.
Can two neighbors share a leash, one walks their dog in the morning the other in the evening to save money.
Lots of details, but I suggest a year test. If there are cimplaints of dog walkers ignoring the hours, or lots of dog pilesying around or fights over dogs in the park over the test period there is always the option to cancel it at any time.
Crwp Dina, now I'm defending a plan I really don't even want and you declared I coulfn't compromise.
Commisioner Brumfield estimates 100 dogs, that is $2,500 in fees.
That's enough to give two people $1,000 performance bonuses with some change left over.
5:23 PM, Commissioner Dave, chief poop inspector, said it would be per dog. Maybe he will have little photo ids that the increased police presence could check. Maybe a little paw print under the photo so that the permits couldn't be transferred.
All this will be enforced by police, animal control, Commissioner Dave, SWAT teams, National Guard, Wildlife Services (in case there is a culling), Parks Advisory Board members, and Public Works. I am starting to feel really good about this.
Elaine
5:27 PM, I updated this post with a photo. All pilot program fees collected will be used to repaint the official car used by the Commissioner implementing the Pilot Program for his or her ward.
Elaine
There was a party in WP today for children. I wonder who stepped in Dina and Mitch's poop? Did Brumfield sweep the park before the children's party?
It's nice to walk my dog in VA Manor. Those streets are always so well kept. Why don't we have dog walk lanes on Osage, Pinetree, etc? Why are all the dog parks in the other parts of Mt Lebanon?
Now now. That wasn't nice about Mitch and Dina.
Dave did not start picking up the poop yet. The pilot program hasn't been approved yet.
Elaine
How about dogs are allowed in the park every other day? I've seen that done in other towns where people seem to get along....
It's not healthy for kids to be extremely fearful of dogs. Fears of dogs are likely to translate into other fears throughout childhood and into adulthood...
An innovative leader in a small Spanish town dealt with an ongoing dog mess problem with some success:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/world/europe/a-special-delivery-of-sorts-to-warn-dog-owners-in-spain.html?_r=0
Should we try this in Mt Lebanon?
Dave Brumfield, Poop Hunter
8:45 You might want to add : why don't we also have bicycle lanes in the Manor, and also pedestrian lanes in the Manor (sidewalks are verboten in the Manor), then we would have to have 1-way streets in the Manor, and then the Manor would implode and no one would ever want to live there again. And taxes would increase to make up the collapse of property values in the Manor. Yield to everyone's special interests, wishes and wants and to hell with the consequences. It's a well entrenched Lebo tradition !
Hi Bloggers, couple of items I can help with:
Retractable leashes: I don't use one, they didn't work when I was training my dog. My neighbors who do, don't use the full length.
Again, I'm trying to help find a potential solution among the neighbors.
I'm also fine with every other day. The timeshare idea seems to be easy to implement, a fair compromise, no fees.
I would also would vote yes for the cameras.
Again, it's not anti dog people. Many that do not want dogs in the park have dogs.
The discussion of hours doesn't change my mind. Just because a child is fearful of dogs doesn't mean this plan will change that. Dumb kids for being fearful. Must be bad parenting skills too. Everybody has a fear.
As one poster previously put it, it's like allowing a smoking table in a non smoking restaurant. The stink goes everywhere.
I have an idea. Let your dog crap and pee in your own yard. You'll get used to it.
I love dogs. I've never met a dog that I didn't love. I've met dogs that don't like me, but I love all dogs.
The problem here isn't the dogs, it's the people.
Dogs spend so little time with us but give us so much unconditional love.
We think that we take care of them, but it is them who take care of us.
If we had better people in Mt Lebanon then we wouldn't have a problem and this discussion wouldn't be taking place.
there wasn't a problem until someone made it a problem. the ordinance has never been enforced, but the special interest needs in williamsburg trump that of children?
How 'bout a pilot program for enforcing the no dog rule in the park ? It hasn't worked so far ! Why would this pilot program be any different ?
Yea, there's a lot of drugs in that high school too! How come everyone knows they're there and nothing is ever done about it?
11:10 where did you read that it is not healthy for children to be fearful of dogs?
Is this your opinion or can you give us the link to the research confirming your assertion?
Dina, I was on board giving a few hours a day when the park is most likely unoccupied and what seemed to me be hours when most people walk their dogs, but now after rrading 11:10's comment and 12:13's, I'm leaning back towards agreeing with 12:49.
Plus, all of the suddenwe need to monitor our park with cameras adding more expenses and therefore taxes.
All because a few people want to change rules to suit them!
How long has Williamsburg Park existed? Suddenly we have a dog space problem.
12:13 good for you that you've got some pooch taking care of you. I'm happy that you've found a caretaker.
But don't try to make me love your dog. I don't want to and I don't have to.
Also, don't make your silly assertions that its unhealthy for my kids or any kids to fear dogs. #1. you don't know that they fear dogs just because they don't want them in a park where they're forbidden. It might be they like a dog free park.
#2. people don't have to cave to your beliefs. I don't have a dog so no dog is taking care of me and I'm doing fine both physically and mentally. On the other hand, I'm beginning to think you may be a little obsessed with your pooch.
1:36, are you saying it actually IS healthy for kids to fear dogs? That's ridiculous.
Second, I'm wondering where all this alleged dog doo is in all the parks. Yes you see it occasionally but by and large dog owners are a heck of a lot more considerate than some kids. I've been in both Bird and the main park and seen garbage that was obviously left by kids. Why don't you charge the kids to use the parks since they're the one who trash them?
1:57, please read 12:13's comments again. The commentator never mentioned children.
1:57 sounds disturbed.
Remember that old saying,"Guns don't kill. People kill."
12:13 is right. People are the problem. God bless the dogs.
Let's put cameras and dogs in the park!
11:10 PM, you lost me at "It's not healthy for kids to be extremely fearful of dogs. Fears of dogs are likely to translate into other fears throughout childhood and into adulthood..."
How would you handle seeing eye to eye to an animal that has sharp teeth? Maybe the fearful child was bitten by a dog. I am fearful of guns that kill animals that are bigger than me. I think that is a realistic concern. That has not translated into other fears in my life.
I have been trying to be objective with Dave's Pilot Program, but that comment threw me over the edge. Next thing we will hear is that people will move to Mt. Lebanon because they can walk their dogs in active parks. Right along with It's for the children, just $18 a month more, we're talking two large pizzas, and all the other crap (dog?) that we have been fed.
Dave's Pilot Program is a social experiment where the stakes are just too high for me. What methodology will be used to determine its success? No child or adult was bitten? I bet Edgar Snyder is just rubbing his hands together waiting to get money for you! This has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare, that is unenforceable. The other parks have dogs in them on a daily basis. You can't handle what you have now!
I wish you would start worrying about more important matters and manage your manager. Fix our roads. Correct the flooding issues. Get rid of the drugs in Mt. Lebanon. There are just a few for starters.
Elaine
2:11 No I'm not saying it is healthy to fear dogs, but to be cautious around dogs you do not know is indeed healthy, prudent and wise behavior.
So why should kids have to be on guard for something in a park that isn't suppose to be there.
Plus, next time my family is walking thru the park I'll let my kid rush up sniff your crotch, lick your hand, then break away and steal your frisbee. Hey, don't get made, they just want to play with you.
Oh everybody, take notice I think 2:11 is on the verge of siggesting everyone pay a fee for using our parks.
2:11, it's not just garbage left by the kids. What about the drug paraphernalia laying around?
Parents, do you want your young children exposed to this illicit behavior? Do we want drug dealers hanging around and opening shop in our neighborhood parks?
Let's put the cameras in the parks and save our children, our parks and our community while we still can!
2:30 you're so right. Mt. Lebanon's Williamsburg Park has the same reputation the world over as Amsterdam's Vondelpark.
Illicit drugs, prostitution, gay sex and all other forms of sin and debauchery occur there on a regular basis.
We better form a Lebo Parks Preservation Society, made up of good citizens overseen by their benevolent K-9 caretakers. All will be safe, all will be healthy for the love of the good dogs.
Unbelieveable. I've changed my opinion. No dogs in Williamsburg.
Why don't we just drop the whole issue and return to normal? It is common knowledge the ord. is not enforced, but the doggie's don't care. They NEED that sign changed!!
My kid plays there everyday, as it borders our backyard. He is not a Guinea Pig, he is a little boy. Us parents around here don't appreciate this lab test of Dave's. If there was a rampant drug problem there, we would know. There is not. I'm pretty sure the dogs won't keep us drug free anyway.
Williamsburgh Park is very nice. However, I have seen teens drinking and using pot as well as using air soft guns. After dark it is shady to say the least. Had a girl scout funtion there a while back and we were surprised with the air soft guns. I dialed 911 and left with the girls because I thought the air soft guns were real guns. Never went back and I don't know what happened when the police arrived.
Just when I was starting to think there was progress on the timeshare issue. Neighbors proposed the change because they wanted to walk there dog legally.
I spent some time in Williamsburg today thinking about a way to make this work. I didn't see any dogs. I saw a group of boys playing Nerf guns. I saw alot of walkers, not just kids.
I did see some bike riders (no helmets) enjoying there last day of summer.
If you don't want people to walk their dog illegally, why wouldn't you support legal dog walking? Lots of folks have said there's waste in the park today, a timeshare or cameras may help.
Williamsburg park is not reserved for kids. It's for all residents, dog owners, non dog owners, senior citizens, loud teenagers.
I learned today that Iroquios park has a sign that says "leashed dogs only or $250 fine". Dont quote me, but its something along those lines.
I see no reason why reasonable people on both sides can't resolve this issue among the neighbors. Forget the crazies on both sides.
There are definitely drugs in our neighborhoods, flooding in our streets, and our schools now rank consistently below USC and Peters. Bigger fish to fry than dog walking.
Dogs are not allowed in Iroqouis Park. Read the ordinance.
If the cameras were in all of our parks and in the main business area we would all be much safer. The program was extremely effective in Chicago.
Something for the Jocks out there - the former VP of NFL Women's Marketing once told me, "You don't have to be the best at what you do, but if you can perform consistently customers will want to do business with you." I heard the same from Genichi Taguchi...
You never know the people that you'll meet in life. But my point is at if we have a safe community with stable infrastructure people will want to live here. We don't have to have the most exotic bells and whistles but if we have a stable and predictable community, people will want to live here.
John David Kendrick
All of sudden we've gone from chanfgethe ordinance to allow dogs inWilliamsburg Park, to guns , security cameras, drugs snd sex.
I always thought Mt. Lebanon was a safe community. Now I'm afraid to go out of my house, thanks guys. Now I've got to find a dog to love and care for me and install security cameras so you all can watch my violentt demise on video.
Is there something in our water, this community is nuts.
Before we install video cameras at Williamsburg I'd like a camera installed at Mellon.
Thats where a group wants to spend over a million dollars for turf because its overused. Nearly every trip past the Mellon Field its vacant.
2:30, you're an angry one, aren't you. You write: "So why should kids have to be on guard for something in a park that isn't suppose to be there."
You're the kind of nitwit that thinks if you live in the bubble, nothing bad will happen. Good plan for your kids, ace. Teach them nothing bad happens. Ever. And teach them to never be on guard for things that shouldn't be there...like drug dealers, drunk drivers, potholes, snakes, meteors, homeless people, mosquitoes...I could go on but I think I've made you look sufficiently clueless.
I've had dogs. I've been around dogs. Most normal humans, when encountered by a friendly dog, don't get as enraged as you obviously do and hold on to it. Rarely have I seen a strange dog run up to someone and sniff their crotch or lick their hand. Further, if you're in a park and that happens, get over it. You think the grass you're walking through is pristine? Birds, squirrels, rabbits and deer all do their business there, too. Prissy, spoiled people like you belong in condos and gated communities. Move along now.
As for a fee for park use, if someone is charged for their dog, they should be charged twice as much for their child. The kid will do infinitely more damage to the park than an animal.
9:54, Talk about anger issues? Really? Ban the kids, bring the dogs. All will be good. Great plan.
9:54 a dog runs over to me and licks my hand univited, NO damn it I don't have to get over it! If I don't want to be licked, I have a right not to be licked.
Plus, I and my kids have a right to walk in a park that is suppose to be dog free,without dogs.
Now that you've resorted to name calling... Joker... what do you do all day, walk around scanning the heavens for meteors? You must trip over a lot snakes then.
I attempted to reach a compromise, thought Dina was on the verge of one, but I'm more convinced than ever that there is no compromising with people like you around and I hope that now the police will start enforcing the no dog policy at Williamsburg.
What an unbelievale attitude exhibited by 9:54.
They've decided I'm spoiled, I belong in a gated community, I'm prissy and that because they've formed this opinion of me-- I should move along , because I believe a code that has been in place for probably 50+ years should remain in place.
Unbelievable, truly unbelievable.
I just came back from Williamsburg Park. Last time I was there, I was a teenager. What a gorgeous park! Of course, I drive by it all the time. I walked on all the sidewalks and didn't see any dog crap. I could see someone getting wedding pictures taken there.
The park was packed with moms and kids. It looked like the group was having a picnic. Little kids would leave the pavillion and help themselves at the water fountain. There is even a portajohn there. I don't see how you could allow dogs in there at the same time as kids. Also, there are several flights of steps which would be hard to navigate for dogs with hip problems. Those dogs would have to walk through where the kids play or turn around and go out the way they came in. I really think this is a bad, bad pilot program.
When I was coming out of the park, I turned left and drove around, through Lovingston and is it Bridgewater? That is a nice route to walk a dog. Why don't people want to walk their dogs there? It is a really nice area over there. Lots of streets that loop around.
Elaine
People walk their dogs all the time in Ward 4 on streets with and without sidewalks, Elaine. Most of us didn't even know dogwalking was an issue until Brumfield proposed this pilot program.
I'd be careful visiting Williamsburg Park Elaine. If your of the mind that you don't want dogs in the park, 9:54 is telling people like that to move on. Hate to think what their next step might be if you don't listen to them. After all, they did say you should be on your guard because bad things happen in the bubble.
Q: Since its the the first day of school and all. Are dogs allowed on school grounds? Most of our elementaries have nice playround areas and grassy areas just like Williamsburg. Howe and Foster I would think, would be very pleasurable areas for Fido to take their human for a walk. (remember someone said the owners don't take care of the dog, the dog takes care of them)
So, if the district doesn't allow dogs in these areas, why not? And if they do why does Brumfield need a pilot program in Ward 4? Howe seems a lot more centrakized in the Ward and accessible to more dog-owning residents.
But the kids are at Howe. I've heard they don't go to WP. Elaine, are you spreading rumors telling us they are really there?
What next? Our Frankie should be able to take a lap or two around the track at the HS. Maybe even time him in the 100M. He doesn't do Hurdles, he's kinda short and stocky.
1:20...wah wah wah...
And yes, I'd prefer people not let their kids run around. I've had little kids run up to me and try to touch my hand. Those little devils are usually covered in some kind of sticky substance from whatever manufactred fake juice product their idiot parents shove in front of them. Unlike dogs, kids carry all sorts of nasty germs including several strains of the flu virus. Do I want some random kid anywhere near me or my hands? Hell no. Then there's the whole criminal justice aspect. These days, you can't even stick out your tongue at a kid for fear of being accused of something untoward. Doesn't happen with dogs.
On a serious note, for those who still have a sense of humor: I have a right to walk around with a dog. Parents have a right to walk around with their kids. Anyone who lives in Lebo and bitches and moans about either is an idiot. anyone who lives in any suburban area and complains about it is an idiot. If you don't want to deal with dogs, don't leave your house. If you don't want to deal with kids, don't leave your house. Or just buy a farm and stay there.
As stated before I cannot believe this whole thing has gotten so much attention. Just what Brumfield proposed is as stupid as the turf idea. our commissioners need to address real issues--sidwalk, public safety, how to give us back our money from the "surplus" they discovered. That's it. Enough about dogs and parks and permits.
Yes, Bruce. I am spreading vicious rumors that little kids use Williamsburg Park. I even took a picture of the empty park and photoshopped little kids and moms playing. It looks really convincing! I will share it here, when I get a chance.
About dogs on school property. I have not been able to find a policy prohibiting dogs, but I do know there are No Dogs Allowed signs posted on school property.
Elaine
Bruce, what better way to teach kids not to be afraid of dogs than in a traching environmet. Fearing dogs is unhealthy, remember.
Besides how many kids are at Howe or Foster after school hoirs. We all know they're at Williamsburg, smoking dope, dealin' dugs, having sex with the homeless guy, catching meteors, milking snakes, getting malaria... should I go on. If not 9:54 will.
You know maybe we should put cameras in the park. We'll get some excellent footage for the PK fundraising campaign.
What a commwrcial... these poor depraved, MTL youth, living in degradation, filth, and sin.
Your $50,000 donation to the "Give an administrator a really big bonus and turf fund" could lift these poor children out of a world with little hope. Won't you save the Lebo children today?
Hey Scoop, news flash currently you DO NOT have a right to walk around with your dog in Williamsburg Park. You do have a right to walk around with your dog on a leash on the streets and sidewalks of Mt. Lebanon though and no one here has suggested you can't.
Your last paragraph I agree with completely. Brumfield's proposal is as dumb as turf and there are better things to do with the "OUR" surplus.
Tell me about dogs on school property. When my daughter was at Foster quite a few years ago, I was waiting in a line of cars to pick her up after school. Well, she no sooner got into the car when I noticed the distinct smell of you know what! Since she was potty trained I knew it couldn't be coming from her. Then she started to cry and pointed to her shoe-the bottom of which was covered in dog doodoo! I got out of the car and looked at the grass by the sidewalk where I was parked and sure enough there it was. A big mound of soft, gooey, freshly minted dog poop. I will never forget that day and neither will by daughter! I had to throw the shoes and the car mat away. There was no saving them. Sign me disgusted!
No Dogs Allowed signs were probably put there by the homeless people.
Maybe Dr. Steinhauer can tweet us or one of the PIOs can do an expose on why dogs aren't allowed on school grounds, especially after school hours.
It'd be for the children.
2:10, you're angry, too.
"Hate to think what their next step might be if you don't listen to them. After all, they did say you should be on your guard because bad things happen in the bubble."
First off, genius, go read what I wrote. Actually, here it is: "You're the kind of nitwit that thinks if you live in the bubble, nothing bad will happen. Good plan for your kids, ace. Teach them nothing bad happens. Ever. And teach them to never be on guard for things that shouldn't be there...like drug dealers, drunk drivers, potholes, snakes, meteors, homeless people, mosquitoes...I could go on but I think I've made you look sufficiently clueless. "
Hmm, mission accomplished--again. You're clueless. And lighten up. If you have that much pent up emotion over a discussion regarding a park, you probably shouldn't be in the park the same time as kids or animals. You don't seem all that stable.
Scoop, That really hurts. I get the impression you don't like me.
There's homeless people in Mt Lebanon?
I suppose I should check the park and offer a tarp or something.
Excuse me while I faint after checking to see if my neighors are still Lilly white.
The Welcome Parent Letter from the Howe Principal said dogs are not permitted on school grounds for safety and sanitation reasons. See page 2.
Elaine
So just for information's sake, what does a drug dealer look like? Do they have dregs? Wear hoodies? Black, Brown? Do they live in really big expensive houses with cameras on private roads?
Wild guess but do they look like every-day run of the mill Mt. Lebanon residents?
I am partial to my khakis.
Jake
Scoop. Are you starting to feel weird around water? I I hate to inform you that u sound a little rabid.
Scoop:
Wanting Williamsburg Park to be dog free and expecting it to be is not teaching my kids to live in a bubble. R u serious? Just growing up Mt. Lebanon IS growing up in a bubble.
I think it would be quite heroic if the commission would just uphold the law, not sneak, lie and back door everybody.
Now, I think we'll have to go teach our kids to be fearful of people that start asking them about living in bubbles. John Travolta fan? You kind of have me freaked out!
Jake
Gee, I guess this enraged, nitwit, wingnut, fear mongering anonymous blogger stands with pretty good company- the Mt. Lebanon SchooL District when it comes to mixing dogs and children.
Against my better judgement I tried to arrive at a compromise with Dina that everyone could liive with. An effort for which I was rewarded with name calling and dispersions. Hate to think what I might have experienced had I used my name. We've seen what happens to people that run for office, hold town halls and create a blog that doesn't agree with the entrenched power structure.
Commissioner Brumfield is part of that cabal and needs to be voted out of office.
Somebody please post what he has done for the municipality as commissioner that justifies another term in office?
Is smoking allowed in parks?
Of course u don't see any dog poop in the park now! Word has gotten around they r being watched!
If I lived near Rockwood Park I would request a separate trash can for poop. The current can smells like hell and should be labelled "not for dog waste".
No, I am not Elaine.
I think as part of the permit system, we should hire a vetrinarian for verification of vaccine's through bloodwork, dogs be microchipped, stool sample provided to be kept on record. Photos should be taken along with paw prints. A log should be kept with verification that it is the correct dog. This log can be kept with a pass-by card reader to measure length of stay , time of day and frequency.
This is a social experiment, right? Then fresking measure it! I don't think lawyers have any training in scientific experimentation. What's their null hypothesis, their hypothesis, etc?
I wonder if Brumfield has consulted with M. Night Shamalan ie the Village.
Yes, smoking is permitted in the parks. I think a neighboring community passed a "No Smoking" ordinance in their parks.
I went to Williamsburg Park yesterday, but I have not walked around in Rockwood. Public Works empties the trash cans three times a week here at Rockwood. I hadn't noticed any odor, but I am upwind from the park.
Elaine
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