From Lebogreen.org Waste Contract Renewal,
If you are interested in making a change from traditional trash removal to a program that will save money, increase recycling, decrease waste going to a landfill, and have the greatest positive environmental impact to our community, we ask that you contact ALL of our Commissioners individually to let them know! This is not a Ward issue, but a township issue. Mt. Lebanon’s waste removal contract is up for bid and now is the time to contact our Commissioners:This program was considered in 2008 by a former commission and found through SHACOG, that it was not a good idea for the community. Kristen Linfante and Kelly Fraasch are behind this "new idea" since they lived in communities where it worked. Dave Brumfield also lived in a community that had PAYT, and it didn't work.
Matt Kluck – mkluck@mtlebanon.org
Kristin Linfante – klinfante@mtlebanon.org
Dave Brumfield – dbrumfield@mtlebanon.org
Kelly Fraasch – kfraasch@mtlebanon.org
John Bendel – jbendel@mtlebanon.org
The program will save money since the cost is being removed from the Municipality and into your wallets. This is another fee that is being taken out of our taxes and charged separately. I don't understand the need to contact all of the commissioners separately. Send one email to commission@mtlebanon.org and let them know how you feel.
123 comments:
By going to a fee they can all puff up their well-groomed, attractive, intelligent chest and proclaim with a straight face "we didn't raise taxes!"
But to anyone with half a brain they will by going to a fee based collecction system.
You can't deduct fees from your federal taxes like you can local taxes!
Don't be fooled taxpayers, remember how easy it was for the school board to raise student parking 'fees' from $50 to $75.
Fee for rainwater!
Fee for dog walking!
Fee for trash pick-up!
Fee for labs!
Fee for studennt parking!
New parking meter fees!
How come we never see a fee for the community magazine, which isn't essential and many of us don't want?
Don't you just love how the political mind works!
They claim: "If you are interested in making a change from traditional trash removal to a program that will save money, increase recycling, decrease waste going to a landfill, and have the greatest positive environmental impact to our community,..."
Please commissioners explain to me how this switch will decrease waste going to a landfill? Are their people in Mt. Lebanon that are throwing away trash just because they can? "Hey honey lets run over to Bethel and steal some trash, its fun and its free here in the bubble!"
Saves money? Really, tell us how commissioners? Exactly, how many bags will I have to cut back to dave money? If I throw out an old chair how much MORE will it cost me?
Plus, if you that concerned about waste gping to a landfill, why didn't you ask you cohorts over at the school boards not to send a pefectly good 6 story building and tennis courts to the landfill?!
Then why are several of endorsing plans to turf a field so that every 7-15 years we have to send tons of plastic grass to a landfill?!
You people are full of stuff that should be put ina landfill.
"...we ask that you contact ALL of our Commissioners individually to let them know! This is not a Ward issue, but a township issue. Mt. Lebanon’s waste removal contract is up for bid and now is the time to contact our Commissioners:"
Yep, a prime of government think and efficency in action!
This is not a ward issue, but a township issue so they want their constituents to contact the commissioners individually!
Incredible, as Elaine points out you reach each commissioner with one email to one address.
Don't these people ever get embarrassed by their stupidity?
The timing is incredible. Just when Kristen wondered where the money was going to come from to pay for deer culling, this shows up. Coincidentally, the same group that wants deer culled also worry about the environment, i.e. gardens.
Elaine
I may break with the crowd on this one, guys. When I drive through the township these days I see weekly piles from some residents who couldn't possibly be generating that volume of garbage.
Face it, there are some people who may operate small businesses who find it cheaper to transport their trash to their house and let the municipality haul it away. If you look at the garbage being tossed this becomes immediately obvious.
What I would like to see is the elimination of the leaf collection vacuum trucks. That program consumes way too many FTE hours. Instead, require each homeowner to buy a bagster, fill it up and let Waste Management remove it. If we implement this program for the township we can reduce ( or equivalently free up ) about half of the FTE time resources in the Public Works Department. It would be wonderful to see these men clean up municipal parks and focus on enhancing the appearance of our streets. ( Or we can hire a third party using these funds to do it for them and eliminate staff and overhead.)
I started using the Waste Management program in CA where I get one 80 gallon can for trash, another for clippings and another for recycling. It's really not that bad, and it eliminates the piles of garbage that line our streets.
It may be unpopular with you all, but it's my opinion.
Elaine, they have solved the problem of finding money for the deer cull.
They switch the cost of trash pick up from the municipal budget to the homeowners responsility and keep billing the same millage of which they'll use the money no longer designated for trash pick up to pay for the deer kill and turfing project.
Ta da problems solved and most residents will be none the wiser.
If this passes, I propose that ALL savings go to sidewalks. They can't say they don't have cash for sidewalks if they save $2 million with this program.
Mr. Kendrick you mention the CA plan you experienced... How much did it cost you?
If you had an old grill, kiddie pool, recliner, or kids swing set how much did you have to pay for their disposal.
Plus with all the block parties in Lebo, will we need to carry doggie-poop-like trash bags around with so no one neighbor gets socked with a huge trash bill?
2:59 don't forget they'll have to pay for the salaries, pensions, benefits, offices of the Trash Accounting & Collections Department (TACD).
They'll burn through that savings pretty damn quick.
Mr. Kendrick do you honestly believe business people are bringing home bags of garbage weekly to save a couple bucks?
Mr. Kendrick:
Your point is well made; especially concerning leaf collection. When I described our leaf removal system to a friend of mine in Connecticut he was incredulous. Rake leaves into the streets of some towns and you'll find a friendly policeman at your door with a little ticket for you. Here we're encouraged to do so; and even if you follow the rules by raking your leaves into the gutter the night before the "vacuum truck" is supposed to arrive, the leaves may end up clogging storm grates if it happens to rain. Then if the truck doesn't come by for some reason the debris is in the road for as long as two weeks at a time, turning a normal two-way residential street into a paved cow path. I won't even get into the issue of people raking leaves into the street immediately after the truck goes by!
Bagging leaves and setting the bag out for trash pickup makes the most sense.
RG and JDK, leaf collection comes out of the storm water fee.
3:29 PM, a certain former commissioner, who was in the construction business, did that all the time.
Elaine
3:50 Wow, your friend was incredulous, that empirical evidence is sure to convince me that we have a bad system!
5:06 PM, I know that this is a silly request, but when someone signs their name to a comment, and you would like to respond to their comment, please address them by their name, instead of a time stamp. Thanks.
Elaine
Elaine, you're not saying he threw out construction materials are you. That is against the rules according to the flyer the municipality distributes.
But even so, I find it highly unlucky that there are a large number of business owners that are bringing home bags of garbage from work.
Another lame-brained dog-park idea from Kelly Fraasch! There is no $2 million savings.Where will she get the time to clean up drugs if she keeps thing up dumb ideas like this one?
Elected officials will come up with all kinds of junk so that they can say taxes were not raised.
This one should be thrown out with the garbage.
Just do the math people. It's not as bad as you are making it out to be.
It's quite likely the program will cost almost all taxpayers less money.
Those that put bathtubs and couches on their lawn for pickup will need to pay above and beyond that which does not fit in the can.
Even if you pay the extra fee when you throw something large out, you will pay less each year than you do now...unless you throw out a couch every week. And if you do that, you have bigger problems.
Hi RG,
What's really bizarre about Lebo's program is that folks on a busy street like mine are told to put the leaves on the curb while most other streets that have fewer cars and slower traffic are permitted to bag! I've even asked to bag but I was turned down!
Shouldn't it be the other way around???
Just wondering...
How many tons of doggie doo filled plastic bags do you think MTL dog owners generate in a year?
Bet a good deal of these people claim to be environmental concerned.
Let's calculate:
2 bags per day = 730 plastic bags/yr/dog.
Rough estimate 3,000 dogs in MTL?
3,000 dogs x 730 bags per year = 2,190,000 plastic bags of dog shit clogging up landfills. At a 1/4 lb. per baggie that roughly equals 274 tons of crap and plastic.
I think we should require dog owners to empty and reuse their poopie bags.
We'll eliminate nearly 2,187,000 plastic baggies from our landfills every year!
Looks like we're being set up for another neighbor policing neighbor situation.
http://triblive.com/mobile/4783990-96/hill-dumping-pittsburgh
Elaine
6:26 show us the math! Not "quite likely" the program will cost less money pie in the sky. I don't like or trust "quite likely" estimates anymore!
Remember the school board directors told us the high school project "quite likely" would be less than $100 million.
6:26, if I can find an independent trash hauler that will handle my trash for less money than the muni's PAYT hauler can I use mine instead of theirs?
Why not? It is supposedily a free county. If I'm paying as I'm throwing does the gov't. have the right to tell me whom I must use?
They can't force a cable or phone company on me. Or evengas or electric power providers. So why a trash hauler if I'm paying out of my own pocket.
Neighbor policing neighbor came up before over the dog park issue when swimming pool bids were rigged. When are the new swimming pool bids being opened?
I don't trust this commission as far as the school board.
626. When is the last time you saw someone leave a bathtub in their lawn for collection?
6:26 be sure to include the salaries of the additional people the municipality will hire to mpnitor and bill each residence.ore than likely that be added to general expenditures and not factored in the trash ccollection cost!
I received a couple of emails "doing the math."
"They have to send out approximately 14,000 trash bills every month.
14,000 bills at .50 new postal rate coming is $7,000. Plus envelopes, bill printing, stuffing, accountingnot to mention homeowners check and return stamp charges. So how is this efficient, cheaper or saving the environment? Who's going to handle the trash billing, the same people that managed the parking meter accounting????"
"What will the additional administrative costs be to record individual garbage & recyclable collections every week for each & every 14,600 residential households plus say 1,000 commercial, nonresidential properties (schools, houses of worship, offices, hospital, retail stores, etc.), tabulate, bill, collect, process? Who will do it? The Municipality? The contractor (guys on the trucks then their back office)? Jordan? How will this affect the 2-year bids? Why have communities tried this and then stopped it after a short while?"
Elaine
WOW, Lebogreen.org says we're going to reduce the amount of trash going to the landfill by 50%? Please elaborate on that. (comments are disabled on that article or I'd ask them directly) Are they going to allow trash burning? (believe me, "recreational burning" will become much more common if this is implemented). I know when I throw things out, it's because I want them out of my house. Maybe they're counting on us becoming hoarders?
And, I notice everyone talking how there's a cost that's passed on but no one is talking about the exact tax reduction that each household will receive with such a program (I already know the answer to this - because there will be no tax reduction).
And Mr Kendrick, with a Bagster bag costing $30 up front and pickup costing $129, I can't support your solution. But, someone STILL has to come around and get the Bagster and those trucks are not small. Forcing people into the paper bag solution that Scott Twp uses would be much more economical to households but again, who is going to come and get the leaves? Those same FTEs that run the vacuums would just be driving around in dump trucks grabbing bags.
Elaine, that article from the Trib points out EXACTLY what will happen with a PAYT system.
Why not charge the churches a rain water fee based on the size of their parking lots. We can stick the Catholics with the bill and the Presbyterians get off real easy.
This is a classic "double bait and switch" deception just like the storm water fee that ended up covering street curb construction and replacement, street sweeping and leaf collection in addition to what we thought was to be for just storm sewer construction and replacement alone - from Muni operating budget offloaded directly to our household budgets as a non-tax deductible fee.
The 2013 Muni refuse or solid waste (garbage, trash, recyclables) budget covered by taxes is $2,088,170. The proposed PAYT scheme would have us dumb clucks pick up the entire tab which would very likely be even higher due to the administrative costs involved.
Tonnage savings ? Can't wait to hear the fairy tale estimates. So people will just generate less, hang onto and hoard it ? Really ?
If SHACOG won't go along with this, would Lebo have to negotiate separately from the traditional SHACOG multi-muni arrangement and risk even yet higher fees ?
Will this become another ready-fire-aim boondoggle ?
Not to mention, if you don't pay your extra trash fee will they be able to foreclose on your home over a $40 trash bill.
Another typical demcratic-styled tax hike disguised as a money-saving fee.
Or will it be like the parking fines, some deviate will skip on 160 months of trash fees or fines.
Someone sent me a link to advantages and disadvantages of various PAYT programs. Read it here. http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=18&objID=505173&mode=2
Elaine
Folks refused to pay the doggie poop fee, why pay extra for garbage collection?
Lebo green is not accepting comments.
He! He! Ha! Ha! Imagine that!
I remember a BS blog run by a sitting commissioner and her sidekick that was skimpy on facts and great at cutting off the truth about the high school project. Sounds like a repeat of the stale old tricks. Right Christian?
Here are the communities that PAYT by county.
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/airwaste/wm/recycle/payt/PAYTinPA.pdf
There are none in Allegheny, Washington, or Butler Counties.
Elaine
Oh goody, we can have the most expensive high school in the region and pay individually for our trash pick up while Brumfield, Fraasch, Linfante, Bendel and newly elected Silverman find new places to spend the $2,000,000 in tax revenue previously earmarked for trash collection.
Still waiting for those "quite likely" savings figures, 6:26!
I would like to know how bags will hold up in the snow, Could explain why it works in CA.
Raccoons get in our cans now. Crows peck through bags.
Tags and stickers do not adhere well in rainy or cold weather. Tom Kelley said that they can be easily reproduced. Sounds like a great fundraiser for the high school!
Containers seem to have the most disadvantages according to the advantages and disadvantages comparison.
Elaine
I understand why we all might not trust the system, but the idea itself isn't quite so horrible. We could reduce waste and our impact. Other areas throughout the US are thinking about how to manage their waste more effectively. This might be something that makes everyone think twice before buying and quickly trashing. Does everyone even know where our trash goes once its picked up? I know I'll be attacked for asking and I don't know the answer but I think it would be helpful if we all thought about this issue.
11:22, fair enough, i think those that are on the side of the status quo have thought about it and are hoping the commissioners do too.
So, convince me otherwise, how does my paying out of pocket vs thru taxes cut trash in half?
Oh, I have to change my buying habits?
I have to horde more trash?
Can I stop my issue of MTL magazine, that'll save paper, right off the bat!
But convince me 11:22, I'm all eyes and ears... just don't speak in vaggue generalities and "quite likelies."
As a business owner I bring home thousands of pages of trash each month... It's called Government Regulations! ENOUGH! I remember when the trash men picked up the trash from the back yard and household junk was picked up once a month and all the neighbors walked about "junk picking". It was a concept my parents never understood and still laugh about. It's all about leaching more money from us nothing more.
ALL,
I JUST WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT AND THANK U.S. SENATOR TED CRUZ AND OUR ELECTED REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVES FOR HAVING THE BALLS TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND SHUT THE GOVERNMENT DOWN!
THIS WAS ABSOLUTELY A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION!
MAYBE WE SHOULD ENGINEER A SIMILAR SITUATION FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT?
FINALLY! REGIME RELIEF!
I get the impression that even when the numbers are shown (and I suspect they will be shortly) that a number of commenters on this blog will still not like the system despite it costing far less per household.
When the commissioners outline the costs per household and it shows it will cost less and the commission will remove from their budget their current fee for collecting trash, will anyone change their mind?
It costs more to keep the current system and those costs are continuing to rise.
How do you suggest the current commission move on from the costly structure of the current system to save not only them money, but taxpayers as well?
I have a mortgage which means my taxes are in an escrow account. I'm going to be paying for trash twice until the bank adjusts the escrow thanks to Linfantecare.
Elaine..when is Kristen up for reelection?? no hope for any change since the majority seems to be Democrats..also i have inside info on who these people are.. and they are not the calif birkenstock wearers. but people who want to have huge gardens(the entire backyard) and want to have township pest control..they also dont want to hear barking dogs or the sight of more than TWO garbage cans or bags from their front window..it's a shame how this small minority seems to want to control our life...and Ms Linfante is going along with them..the prev Commissioner of the Ward would of ignored their requests knowing the source of the complaints..Kristen.. please wake up.. the majority of your constituents are a live and LET live..
9:28 AM, Kristen will be president of the commission next year, thanks to the alleged rotation that never existed. Remember all that? Kristen has two more years on the commission, as do John and Kelly. Dave has four more years on the commission since he is running unopposed.
Elaine
BTW, the previous commissioner would have ignored all requests regardless of the source of the complaints.
Elaine
Reading this really makes me consider running for the commissioner of my ward when Kristen is up for reelection, but I'm very new and don't know the right people. I will try to work on that but with a baby on the way, it will certainly be a hard task. So was going to engineering school full time and working full time but I made it through that with flying colors.
8:53, I hope you are not the same person as 11:22?
So once again someone is flying by the seat of their pants - "I get the impression..." why of course you do. That's is what you want to believe.
Come back when your suspected numbers appear and we'll have a REAL examination of the facts and figures. Fair?
You see, I get the 'impression' you won't change YOUR opinion once the facts are examined.
I find it "quite likely" you'll deny anything that proves that PAYT won't cut trash or be any more enviroentally sound than curtent trash procedures.
First question, do you consider me so stupid that I can't do things to reduce my trash output?
We alrrady return empty egg cartons to the farmers market. We use oir own canvas sacks rather than the paper or plastic bags at the grocery.
Qhat would you havre me do mode, take my lunch meat and cheese home sans wrappers?
What will the store do, stick the price label on my forehead?
If the municipality is charged by the pound for garbage collection, why must I pay for my neighbor's excessive waste and refusal to recycle?
The key to winning in Lebo is not knowing the right people.
12:03, you're right. Lets have everyone queue up on their appropriate trash day with their bags of trash and we'll weigh them, check that recycables have been separated and charge each the appropriate per pound rate.
12:03 explain to me why I pay an $8 storm water fee for my 1/4 acre lot while someone with a full acre pays the same amount? Shouldn't they pay $32?
Something no one has considered. When one ofourneighbors gets everything in their basement ruined when muni storm lines can't handle the flow... are we going to add insult to injury and charge themby the pound to dispose of their personal items ruined by lack of proper sewer line management and maintenance?
12:03pm, you must pay because you don't want rats and other vermin in your neighborhood.
Trash collection is a sanitary service that benefits the entire community - even more than a Taj Mahal high school or new pool does. it's one of those services the government should be doing. Without it, life would be much different. We wouldn't be talking about a deer cull. We'd be talking about a rat cull. We would be dealing with disease outbreaks.
If the township is going to cut my taxes the amount I pay for trash collection and they're going to come up with a way to deal with things like cut grass/minor organic yard waste besides having a once quarterly pickup, then I may be interested. But nowhere is anyone talking about a tax cut. It's just another hand that's in my pocket.
3:05, good point.
Refuse soaked in municipal flood waters weighs much more than dry refuse.
If only the municipality could charge for the rain itself.
I'm with you Jack.
I'll bet you a week's worth of trash pick up once this plan is implimented I'll be paying more than "• Each Mt. Lebanon household pays an average of $162.48 in 2013 taxes for its share of solid waste?"
And I also won't see a reduction of $162.48 average in my tax bill!
Still waiting for someone to tell me the date of the public meeting where this halfassed idea was discussed.
12:03 PM, there are people who pay a stormwater fee and have leach beds. Is that fair? Would you rather have neighbors who hoard? That isn't pretty either. Don't we pay for our garbage which is based on our assessments? If you live in the smallest house on the street, you are paying less for your garbage than your neighbors, right?
Elaine
Seems to me that this blog routinely demands that municipal services not be provided to only a subset of the residents. Unlike most of my neighbors, I put out twice as much recycling as I do trash. As such, it seems unfair that I'm paying for other people's trash.
Plus, we wouldn't be the only community that implemented such a system: http://www.wisebread.com/should-we-pay-2-per-pound-for-garbage-disposal
We've consistently complained that our taxes are going towards expenditures that we find unnecessary, be they the magazine, deer culling, superintendent salaries or the high school renovation. It follows that I shouldn't have to pay for my neighbor's excessive trash pickup. We need to trim the fat. Money doesn't grow on trees.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's garbage.
This is over you 12:03 ? who are you to judge if your neighbor's garbage is excessive ? Are you taking inventory ? Do your neighbors think you are hoarding ?
Is this your worst problem ? Get a life 12:03. Their are worse things in this world !
OK, how about this 5:25 PM? Would you be willing to cut the fat by going with PAYT followed by no more discussions about turf or deer culling? I am letting you keep your precious mtl Magazine. How about making the school district pay their fair share for storm water? The municipality has nothing to do with Timmy or the high school project.
I am on board if that comes to fruition!
Elaine
BTW, shouldn't there be a budget reduction since the commission isn't taking care of the school ball fields anymore?
Elaine
5:25 why aren't you upset with probably the biggest trash crrator in the community- the school district?
Where do you think bldg C is going to wind up? In a landfill.
And don't come in and declare building C was obsolete.
12 architect, engineers, and construction experts told the directors it didn't have to come down!
And its due to the hard work of many of the bloggers here that the now highly-touted renovated building B didn't end up in a landfill!!
So get off your holier than thou, I recycle more than anybody attitude and go after the real trash generators.
Do you know how many tons of plastic we'll be trucking off to landfills every 7-15 years if we buy into the SAB's turf plans?
Instead of picking fights with people why don't you open your mind just a little.
Shhhhhh, Elaine!
You're not allowed to ask questions like that.
I just cringe when I hear someone say that we need to cut the fat. The school district takes the biggest chunk out of my savings every year. That would be where to start, not question what we pay for garbage.
Will the trash cans go away in the parks? Should I expect people dumping their trash in the park next to me?
We can't control people keeping their dogs out of our parks. How are we going to stop that? Do I need to make a new photo of a patrol car that says trash control instead of poop patrol?
Elaine
This whole discussion is based not on whether municipal or PAYT generates less trash.
They both send the same amount to landfills or recycling... Unless something happens to change A residents consumption.
Rather than PAYT, why don't we bring back those buckets our great grandfathers used to get beer from the local saloon.
No need for bottles, aluminum cans, labels, bottle caps, cardboard cases.
Rinse out the bucket, takre it to the saloon for a refill.
No need for trash pick up because its the ultimate recycling plan.
The supermarkets for a while had bottled water refilling stations 5:25 where customers kept refilling the same old plastic jugs. Haven't seen one in a while.
So this isn't about saving money, reducing trash, its about modifying behavior through financial inconvenience.
People will find their way to environmental sound practice if it suits them. Watch how many people use canvas bags at the market.
Ah, so 6:43, it's about trying to architect decision outcomes that satisfy what a select few think is right by creating false market conditions.
Someone's been reading their Cass Sunstein.
That and the democratic majority on the commission can declare they didn't raise taxes!
And each year after when they raise the fee... all together now... "we didn't raise taxes for trash collections."
But they won't mention how many staffers were added to manage the PAYT plan.
I know babies are going to dirty 50% fewer Huggies and Pampers now that their parents are doing PAYT.
Or better yet the Lebo moms are going to start using and washing cloth diapers because PAYT fees have rducated them in how they're destroying the environment.
Here is Cranberry's PAYT plan. Where is the savings?
Elaine
Want to know how big 35 gallon cans are? Go here.
Elaine
Better yet Elaine, to try this out for your household go to the store and buy 30 or 40 gallon trash bags and see how many your family fills each week.
Then ask the commissioners how many you'll be allowed to throw before you get billed extra.
Its that simple to figure out if you'll save money or not.
MTL homeowners pay $162.48 on average for the current plan.
Ah yes, I can hear the future in Lebo now. Warm summer Trash Day Eve in the neighborhood, kids getting there last few laughs in before bed, crickets chirping and the cacophony of soup and beer cans being crushed, wine bottles and Ragu jars being smashed so the family can avoid going over their weekly can limit!
Oh the joy of future summers in the bubble, I can hear it now.
I don't believe there will be a limit on recycling. The environmentalists encourage you to recycle your beer cans, Ragu jars and wine bottles
Elaine
I can't wait to hear what Mitch has to say when he gets his first PAYT bill.
So I'll be able to throw out unlimited amounts of glass and aluminum cans? Ten, twenty, thirty 35 gal containers will be OK?
Anyone know if the Fisher Price and Playskol kitchens and workbenches etc. are OK for recycling?
"The environmentalists encourage you to recycle your beer cans, Ragu jars and wine bottles."
Does this mean you don't recycle Elaine? There seems to be some scorn in that comment.
To Damion---I don't know you, but I say go for it! RUN FOR COMMISSIONER!
Just because you're new in town doesn't mean you can't do a good job. The person currently holding the office is new compared to many of us who have lived here since childhood.
Are you inferring that the environmentalists DON'T encourage people to recycle beer cans, Ragu jars and wine bottles?
Really? The whole idea is to reduce, reuse, and recycle. I have said many times how I recycle my newspapers. I will be having my Dress 4 Work program for the sixth year in a row encouraging people to donate clothing. I am against tearing down Building C. I recycle my electronics. I compost. I don't believe in artificial turf. My recycling can is usually filled to the top. I fold all my cardboard and break down boxes for recycling. I take my plastic grocery bags to the store. I made bags out of an old cloth shower curtain. I drive a Subaru. I have been using compact fluorescent bulbs for so long, I had to replace them. My trash can is usually less than half full. I think I walk the walk 10:18 PM.
Elaine
The question at 10:48 was directed at 10:18, not Elaine.
From reading this discussion, it seems to me that Mt Lebo is not ready for this transition. Nobody should feel like they are being hit with a brick. Why does it always feel that way around here?
At least we have the BUCS.
It is the constant back room deals here.
And the lack of information shared by our elected officials.
Elaine
And the promise of no impact on our wallets that never seems to hold true.
11:26, 11:27, 11:35. All true.
I would pay to throw the commissioners and staff into the garbage can.
You can do that by letting Damion know you'll donate to his future run against Linfante.
So far he sounds rational and a thinker in his writings here.
So why not give him a shot. Let him know we're hungry for some new blood!
As for this electipn cycle, don't vote for any of the incumbents.
Go to vote but don't pull the lever for Remely, Birks, or Brumfield.
Vote for yourself, your wife, your dog... anyone, but get out and vote it is Free and you don't have to vote for the names on the ballot.
Send a free message that you're not happy with the people you're being fed!
They'll win of course, but they won't be able to proclaim a mandate and for several that will be an ego deflator.
I am voting (writing in) for Moe, Larry, Curly and Shemp!
Who will join me?
11:18 AM, that is going to be my strategy for this election. I am going to vote for Moe, Curly, Larry, and Shemp. Yes, the four school board candidates will win, but it is better to vote rather than not vote at all. Last year, I wrote in Dudley's name a few places. I agree. That sends a message.
Elaine
Anonymous 11:27 AM, we are on the same page.
Elaine
OK sounds good... I too would take Moe, Larry, Curly and Shemp over the four SB candidates on the ballot.
Wouldn't it be great to see one beat out by one of the Stooges.
Now in Ward 4... how about W.C. Fields? Kind of appropriate and an easy name to remember in the voting booth-- What Cost Fields... W. C. Fields!
I like WC's campaign platform--
"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. There's no point in being a damn fool about it." -W. C. Fields
Advice you'd think Brumfield should be able to learn.
Other WC FIelds words that our local politicians live by:
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”
― W.C. Fields
That quote alone 1:17, would make WC the quintessential MTL politician, except in one commissioner's case we'd need to change bullshit to dogshit.
EG:
With respect to yours of October 2, 2013 at 11:27 AM; may I suggest, instead of Moe, Curly, Larry, and Shemp, you write in the following:
Moses Harry Horwitz
Jerome Lester Horwitz
Louis Feinberg
Samuel Horwitz
After all, we need to give this election the decorum it deserves!
Can we please stop with the Linfante-esque nifty chic west coast nonsense? Recycling doesn't save money. And guess what--I'm not about to let five people of questionable intellect start dictating to me what I do with my trash. We all pay for it now. Stop trying to exert more control and stop trying to extract more money to spend on your idiotic pet projects like deer shoots and turf.
Also, all the feel good crap about "oh, we're filling up the landfill areas...boo hoo". Yeah, landfills are designed for that. You want less trash? Great, more power to you. But stay out of my life.
Sorry to disagree RG, but the singular point of the vote for Moe, Larry, Curly and Shemp is to send a clear message that we'd sooner have the Stooges serving as school board directors than the two currently serving!
Nothing more, nothing less. Real names only blunt the message when the results are tabulated and published.
Think about it, here we are a month out from the election and have you heard one word from any of the candidates? Any literature explaining their objectives over their next term? How about the new guys. No, comment from them about Tim's raise? They OK with it? Will they give him 8% next year? How are they with $82,500/yr campaign fund employee? Are they going to expect anything from that addition to the staff?
A lot has happened since the primary and had those events occurred prior, I'm thinking the results would have been different - by at least one.
With Brumfield, how many times are we going to allow him to play with spending a million or two turfing a field, before we kick him out of his chair?
Now he wants to change trash pick up from taxed to fee based.
Yet, has he said he'll cut our taxes by the amount trash collection cost now?
No, he hasn't and he did sign off on that silly pool bid. He's a lawyer, isn't he suppose to know better?
3:21, Linfante, Brumfield and probably Bendel and Fraasch don't seem to have a lot of concern filling landfills with tons of plastic turf and rubber tire pellets every 7-15 years.
Some of our commissioners don't make enough money to itemize a tax deduction so it doesn't matter to them if they pick your pocket with a tax or a fee.
Seriously, check out the assessed values on their homes.
The only reason to substitute a fee for a tax is so you can raise the taxes to pay fot something else. Dog Shit Dave must think we are stupid - or maybe he knows just how dumb the other commissioners really are.
8:31 PM, I wouldn't pick on Dave for this one. He is against PAYT too.
Elaine
Then Brumfield is to be commended for his view on PAYT.
But he's still off base on turfing a field, approving/accepting the pool bid and giving the SD the 4 parking spaces needed to move forward on the HS
In California you get one can for yards waste, one can for recycle and one can for garbage. You can not throw out anything else! If it doesn't fit in the can you can not throw it out. So guess where the old mattress, old furniture, grills, old toys etc end up. Can't guess? On the side of the freeways, in gorges, in alleys, everywhere it shouldn't be. Drive around California and the freeways are littered with so much crap. It's even in the expensive neighborhoods.
I just love hearing the neighbors behind me taking out several if not many cases of beer for recycling! All of that glass breaking up all at once! Wonder how many cans they filled up!
Check out this 3 part video regarding recycling on YouTube.
Its informative, funny and pertinent to PAYT.
Be forewarned there is some salty language.
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzLebC0mjCQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wS1dv3iat8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvz-z7CvsYA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
For those offended by vulgar language, don't watch the videos. They say more than poopie.
That was VERY interesting! Kind makes you feel silly for recycling.
Elaine
John I too Stand With Cruz! We need to find a Write-In Candidate to take on Dave B! What's the name of the deer in the Disney movies?
Here's a more reputable source about the efficacy of recycling: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/recycling/4291566
And here's a patent application submitted by one of the magicians who produced the Bull**** segment for Showtime: http://www.google.com/patents?id=B1cZAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
Live and learn!
Yes 8:27 live and learn.
The PM article is not the stunning endorse you want it to.
Sure there are benefits to recyling 'some' materials. Aluminum cans for instance. Copper too. As Penn & Teller point out if recycling made sense people would pay you to take your materials not charge you.
Copper is such a hot commodity these days, people are stealing copper gutters and downspouts from churches for the money recyclers will pay them for it.
Restaurants are selling their rancid cooking oil to recyclers that turn it into bio-diesel fuel. Paper and old Lebo magazines you can't give away.
What you haven't figured out is that WM is charging you for the priviledge of being their trash sorters! You pay and they sell to recyclers the valuable stuff and put the rest in a landfill.
And what is you point on the patent.
KY, Cosmo, Marie Clare and other businesses make millions on enhancing the female 'experience.' So what!
Maybe yo should read "50 Shades of Gray" and live and learn.
How much is that patented device?
I'm thinking we could eliminate a lot animosity here if, instead of a climbing wall at the pool we installed a couple of them.
It'd sure eliminate a lot of the stress!
Anywaaay, this shouldn't be an environmental thing. It should be broken down into dollars and cents. I understand the numbers will be discussed at the commission discussion meeting on Tuesday.
Elaine
Disagree Elaine, about the environmental thing, but the examination needs to start somewhere so dollars and cents (or sense) is a good place to start.
What impact will PAYT have on the municipal budget?
More clerical employees?
More money to Jordan Tax Service?
More pensions in the future?
How about bill printing, envelopes, postage, etc.?
Let's make sure they just limit the discussion to the fees charged by WM.
Also, the question needs to be asked, if I'm paying as I throw can I choose whom I pay?
If I get a better rate from Joe's Trash Hauling can I PAYT with them rather than WM?
I'm serious, if the municipal isn't handle paying the trash hauler for me any more, why should they get to dictate who I use and pay?
Correction to 2:01 comment.
Let's make sure they [don't] just limit the discussion to the fees charged by WM.
Make we get a $2,000,000 tax cut since the municipality won't be paying for our trash pickup!
Don't let the commissioners say they cut while adding tax increases! Cut trash expenses from the millage rate BEFORE adding in things that will raise the millage.
Hold thre commissioners feet to the fire so we may compare apples to apples!
Moving soon, thank God! Get me out of here! This place is nuts.
The Almanac in an Op-Ed said Peters was the place to go for a good education, if have have kids, 12:38.
Mme. Moderator: Part I: OK, so we are not raising "taxes," we are just raising "fees." That sounds nice, if you are not concerned with what it costs any household for the totality of municipal services. The Commission could, for example, extract a "user fee" for road maintenance, add one for snow removal in the town, or for access to parks (why not, the National Park System has such fees), perhaps change the name of "taxes" to "service fees" and "eliminate" all taxes? The problem our clever politicians have is that a cost for municipal services is a "tax," and all smell the same.
Maybe the Commission, which is nominally far more Democrat than our school board, will allow the citizens to actually vote on whether they want all this conversion to "fees" from "taxes" to continue? A referendum might be in order. Oh, they don't have to do that, so they won't? Maybe they are more like the school board than we realized.
The Swamp Fox #3
Mme Moderator: Part II: If one were to postulate that the average voter in Mt. Lebanon had enough intelligence and education to understand these matters, which would be a good guess, and if one had enough respect for one's constituents to actually be concerned with what their opinions might actually be about such things, one might not be so transparent and gamy in the first place. After all, why make a choice on allocating resources when you can make someone else take the burden off your mind?
If, separately, the affordability of living in this town were of any interest, say to an elected official, then the total cost of fees and taxes might seem like the appropriate analytical base for determining the burden of living here, though one might only do that if one thought that the people would be concerned about that. Then again, why should affordability of residency matter? After all, these "Democrats" sound more like elitist Republicans, who want to keep economic "undesirables" (like seniors, or young families) out. We must have the best of everything, gold-plated if need be, we can all afford it, or we should not live in Mr. Lebanon---move to, say Bethel Park, or maybe Elizabeth, why not? Do you remember the line from the movie "Zhivago:" "You don't need such a large house, comrade!"
Or, perhaps we misapprehend the friendly hand of our Commission which might prefer to achieve a utopian level of services (that is, those they want) more than they want to foster the affordability of living here. Silly question, everyone has unlimited funds, we are all rich! It will only be like the cost of one latte a day! (Oh, those darn Republicans, again). It is, obviously, only the Democrats who care about people and protecting the Middle Class, right? Maybe it is time for my nap to be over.
It all begins to sound like "Let them eat cake." Perhaps some introspection might be in order for our august elected leaders, but such a strange notion could not be based on the record. Maybe the members of the Commission ought to write down their principles of governance as a set of logical precepts and then consider if what they are doing is actually consistent with their view of the world. Are they elitists? Are they concerned whether they are hurting seniors or young families? Does it matter since everyone here is a a professional, with a six figure salary (if not, they do not belong here anyway)? Whatever the cost of municipal services it is our duty to bear what has to be a small sum for rich people! Did someone say "noblesse oblige?"
Ah, consistency, hobgoblin of small minds, why must I be troubled with means and ends. Why can't I have it all, and pay for it with other people's money? In their charitable giving, do you think that any of the commissioners have remembered the municipality, or put the township in their wills because of the duty to pay for everything the commissioners want? Is it really earned money and savings that the citizens have to pay that the Commission spends, or is this a social club in which we outdo each other to demonstrate our relative wealth for ego sake? Shame on those who so lightly take what others have worked so hard to earn.
But, I ramble. That seems to happen a lot when one tries to fathom the superior minds and social consciences of our great and wonderful Commission.
The Swamp Fox #3
Thank you, Swamp Fox. It is always a pleasure to hear from you. Many readers have told me how they enjoy your writings.
Charging for snow removal could become a reality, if you consider that the cost of salt is going through the roof. I remember Public Works' Tom Kelley mentioning that at a commission meeting. Maybe the commission will consider salt boxes and we are allotted so much salt per street. When I lived in Beechview, we had to salt our own streets. It was such a joyous event when the salt boxes were delivered. The commission could lower our taxes even more! Think of the possibilities!
Elaine
Salting your own streets, that too could fall under 'Pay As You Throw!"
Say you live on a level street and drive and expensive, gas-guzzling Range Rover with 4WD.
Why should you be burdened with the cost of salting roads for those pesky poor people that only have 2 WD vehicles.
Consider salt and deicing chemicals harm the environment, bad for pets, bad for plants... Yes-Yes-PAYT snow removal... commissioners!!!!!!
1:04 PM, when you live in underassessed homes, you can afford those gas guzzling Range Rovers.
If I speak on Tuesday, I am going to ask the commissioners to go after those under assessed properties first, instead of worrying about how many cans of garbage their neighbors are putting out. You want to talk about fair...
Elaine
How about Pay As You Play for youth sports... that includes turfing?
How about Pay As You Paddle? As in you want pool improvements pay as you use them. Me, I'll never use a climbing wall.
Then there is my favorite--- PAY AS YOU PERUSE!!!! Why should I pay taxes to receive and throw out a magazine and website I don't enjoy. You want to read MTL magazine subscribe! Its environmentally sound... one less magazine going to a landfill, less electricity, inks, engery consuming lights etc.
Then there is Pay As You Shoot for deer culling.
Pay As You Park (legally and illegally)
If we all put our thinking caps on we could eliminate all municipal taxes and swith to a Pay As You _ _ _ _, for every service a resident might imagine.
PAYT => Pay As YouTurf
I was originally somewhat supportive of Pay as You Throw but I've changed my mind. I think the Commission is trying to accomplish too much and should stick to the basics. Safety, accountability, transparency and ensuring that no group in our community is suffering -- like the people who are repeatedly being flooded and suffering from ridiculous traffic problems on their streets.
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