Kelly Fraasch has updated her blog to include her Concerns about Crumb Rubber Infill. Kelly posed some straightforward questions such as:
- Why would companies be offering filtration systems for our waterways, but not have any reservations about putting a child on the turf that they are filtering the particles from? Filtrations systems are being offered to Mt. Lebanon as revealed in my RTK.
- Why with all the regulations on tires in our dumps and disposal centers would we find the tires any different laying out on a field getting stuck on our children’s clothing and skin, or worse, ingesting/inhaling the crumbs or crumb dust?
Mr. Franklin insists that artificial turf is lead-free. Not true, Dave. According to Kelly's latest post, Field Turf, the largest artificial turf manufacturer in North America, sells a lead-free artificial turf, but only if the community asks for the custom-made field. The fields that most communities purchase, use lead to brighten the field's colors and for a sport team logo.
Lebo Citizens readers have expressed concern for their asthmatic children. Artificial turf does have an adverse affect on asthmatics.
Once we go with artificial turf in our park, there is no turning back. When plastic replaces natural grass, nothing will grow there without years of soil remediation.
Then there is the whole "misrepresentation" of the ESB's position. Only two websites have posted the ESB's statement; Kelly Fraasch's blog post ESB Statement to Commission and Lebo Citizens' Environmental Sustainability Board's statement to the Commission concerning artificial turf. You will not find the ESB's statement on any municipal site.There was a hint mentioned in Susan Morgans' article, field fundraising under way.
The proposal was controversial, with some residents opposed because of the approximately $1 million price tag and others citing health or environmental concerns.Please read Kelly Fraasch's in depth article Concerns about Crumb Rubber Infill. Keep in mind that organic infill is slightly better; however, the plastic rug underneath the infill is still hazardous.The decision yet to be made by the commissioners is: organic toxic turf or synthetic toxic turf. My vote is natural grass.
Update March 17, 2014 2:02 PM I have been given permission to share this open letter to our commissioners from Lebo Citizens reader and Mt. Lebanon resident, Charlotte Stephenson.
Subject: Artificial Turf/Respiratory Illness
Dear Mt. Lebanon Commissioners:
I am aware of your plan to install artificial turf on the fields known as Wildcat and Middle located on Cedar Blvd. This is to let you know that I am highly opposed to such a project out of concern for my health and the health of many other residents who suffer with respiratory illnesses.
Having lived in Pittsburgh all my life, I have battled asthma episodes since childhood. There is nothing I can do to change the fact that my airways react to respiratory viruses and environmental substances. I was hospitalized recently with viral pneumonia and asthma for several days. Visiting the hospital for breathing treatments and IV steroids is something that I have learned to do when home remedies won't stop the wheezing. Did you know that Pittsburgh is viewed as the "asthma capital" by local pediatricians? My guess is that many of you remember a popular soccer coach and Markham parent who passed away suddenly from an asthma episode.
According to the EPA, inhaled black carbon is known to be associated with asthma and may also be associated with other potentially fatal lung diseases. Please ask you pediatricians about the prevalence of asthma here when you take your child for their next visit.
I used to walk and run on the high school track, completely ignorant to the materials I was subjecting my lungs to. Certainly, when the facility reopens I won't be going there to exercise anymore. However, I ask you to please discontinue any further plans to install artificial turf on any natural surfaces in our community. Do this out of respect for the the health and well-being of all the residents here, especially those like myself who live within close proximity to the spaces. I will not have peace of mind knowing that the wind blowing over the chemical-laden surfaces could be directing chemical substances to my residence or that I could be inhaling black carbon when I visit our recreational center and Veterans Memorial.
This is not a time to be selfish to push your agenda. This is the time to demonstrate concern and consideration for all of your constituents. Please do the right thing.
Sincerely,
Charlotte M. Stephenson
97 comments:
The people that manage the upkeep of our fields now can't manage dirt --evidenced by the puddles that consistently form around the bases and home plates after a rain.
Now we're to believe they are going to move pitcher's mounds and re-line fields for each sporting venue on artificial turf.
I'd like to suggest that concerned citizens read at least some portion of a "Inhaled Environmental Allergens and Toxicants as Determinants of Asthma Phenotype", the fourth chapter from the edited and recently published, "Heterogeneity in Asthma" (2014). The "Inhaled Environmental Allergen & Toxicants" chapter discusses not only how crumb rubber from artificial turf impacts individuals with pre-existing asthma but also how long-term exposure to tire particulates also shapes the development of asthma. See page 63 for a summary if you don't have much time.
http://tinyurl.com/pzvv6pk
There are more recent studies of this subject to consider as well but I thought this was a good brief summary.
7:19 pm - That's why I suspect they won't have public works or the school district managing this "crown jewel" at all. Did you happen to read that even the Dormont Pool is now hiring out their summer staff (using the firm that staffs Idlewild and Sandcastle)? It saves them money. Somehow, it will save us all money to have some private firm take care of this complex.
I wonder if its possible to privatize the rec dept. management team?
MTL magazine should've been dumped years ago.
Thank you Commissioner Fraasch this should have been revealed prior to voting but hope everyone will read your information.
This is disgusting to watch.
I had no idea...astonishing!
I hope the rest of the Commission pays attention and does the homework.
My kids won't be on any artificial turf any longer.
10:08 AM and 10:11 AM How about you and like minded friends attending the next Commission meetings and making your opinions known directly to the Commissioners and their staff (Donnellan & Deiseroth particularly).
Just posting blog comments isn't really going to change things.
10:27 AM has the right idea. Get your comments in the minutes. Make it official. Although I appreciate your comments here, they don't mean a thing unless they are said publicly at a meeting.
Kristen wil say that there is overwhelming community support for this project, if you don't come forward. Call her out. For it to continually come from me is ineffective. Learn something from our Brookline neighbors.
Elaine
10:27 why are you assuming that 10:08 and 10:11 aren't contacting the commissioners or their staffs with their concerns?
Some of their responses are priceless!
10:40 AM, I hope they do both. Writing to a commissioner seems pointless to me anymore.Kristen said in a meeting on November 25, that she only received 3 emails against the turf project. We know Kristen lies. Don't give her the opportunity to lie again. It is only after filing a RTK when the truth comes out. I am getting really tired of filing RTKs, so PLEASE come forward and state your feelings. I would suggest a petition, but it has been proven to be an ineffective tool in Mt. Lebanon. My petition days are over.
Elaine
10:40 AM If they are they should be telling us of that here on this blog and sharing the priceless responses. It would provide courage to those who share concerns but are afraid to express them, their personal feelings and experiences, even anony on this blog. We all need to stand up and be counted.
The only way to call a halt to all this trickery, chicanery and deceit is to confront the perpetrators en masse, both in public meetings and at the polls.
I'm sorry Elaine, but I must disagree somewhat with you and 10:27... "Just posting blog comments isn't really going to change things."
The above comment is true of course, but experience tells us that showing up at school board and commission meetings has little impact either.
Elaine, you know as well as anyone since you presented the petition signed by 4,000 residents asking for a less expensive high school renovation and were told by the president they had more proponents. Not 4,000+ people that showed for meetings, 4,000+ that Eddie talked to personally.
Look at Sablegate. Hundreds of residents protest AT meetings asking for more info, the AG chastized the board for not telling more. Did it change anything?
Two of the commissions own board advised them and they ignored their conclusions.
The Zoning Board advises against field signs, we got field signs.
The ESB advises against artificial turf, Linfante's/Brumfield's response, we don't need your stinking advice- we have the 3 votes to do what we wish.
So just showing up isn't the answer.
I'm sorry I don't have one, but writing to our elected officials or standing at a podium doesn't seem to change anything once they've set their minds to it.
I hesitated about posting your comments,10:59 AM. I guess you just want us to fold up our tents and go home.
Elaine
Elaine, Did you start this blog before or after your petition regarding the high school? I am sure that your frustration with the petition results has fueled this blog which has enlightened Mt Lebanon residents and neighboring communities. It has also resulted in other successful challenges to the municipality. Thus, I believe petitions DO matter. They develop awareness, passion, and conviction. They may represent one of the only channels to inform the wider community and for a group to develop solidarity regarding their beliefs. The petition needs many signatures, to be widely shared on social media and in person, especially to residents on the adjoining streets, parents, etc.
The question is what does the petition say? Is it against crumb rubber or against the turf in general or.... there are quite a few things dramatically wrong in this situation.
Look at what Brookline was able to do. Look at the people who fought against dogs in Williamsburg. How about that beer and hotdog place that was supposed to go in on McFarland? There are just three examples. I really don't need your negativity, 10:59 AM. There are too many people working on this, my friend.
Elaine
10:59 and 11:18. If you can combine the highly distributed petition with illustrations of the illegal, unethical, and don't forget mean spirited behavior demonstrated by the commission and the municipality, you've got a good chance of making a difference.
Yes, said to say that is the message.
The population of MTL is in round numbers - 33,000.
Unless you plan on packing 16,500 and 1 residents in commission or board meetings they'll always proclaim they've heard frim a majority favoring whatever it is they want to do!
Franklin, just told you the commissioners heard from a majority favoring turf. He didn't lie, you even said 18 emails were for and only 9 opposed.
On top of that Linfante, Brumfield and Bendel have the majority. Linfante told us, "we win... we have the majority!" you could pack the chambers with 33,000 residents, they could still move forward.
As long as <30% of voters vote and then there is no option to recall runaway representatives, we're stuck.
We get what we elected.
11:19 AM, here is the sequence of events.
Feb. 2010 petition started to circulate.
April 2010 Concerned Citizens of Mt. Lebanon website was born using the domain, www.lebocitizens.com
November 29, 2010 This blog started.
So yes, the petition came first.
About a new petition, it should be against the turf in general. Our commissioners have no business using our unassigned funds to build "crown jewels" when we have residents gearing up for flood season again. Our roads are a mess, pensions are rising, golf course needs work, the pool is going to cost more than we know, and we need to unload McNeilly or start paying off that debt.
The only turf that is truly organic is natural grass. The organic infill goes over an artificial carpet with fake blades of grass. Both components are hazardous to children.
There are many reasons why this project must stop, but here are just a few examples.
Elaine
11:33 AM, are you working for Franklin? I am busting my ass to stop this project. The commissioners need to resign. There is much more to this than you know. Please keep your negativity to yourself. Thank you.
Elaine
11:33 am. Elaine surely doesn't have all the emails that opposed turf. Do you really think the muni would share all those emails?
I forgot to add how we even got an apology out of Susan Morgans over that offensive "to market, to market" piece she did.
Can you tell I'm pissed, 11:33AM?
Elaine
I can't believe you think I'm working for Franklin, Elaine!!!!!
I'm not sure why you choose to shoot the messenger. I've offered my opinion on how to affect change and to not pack up the tents and go home.
The National Conference of State Legislatures states that 29 states allow recall elections. They go further and say some place the number at 36 in one form or another, mostly for recalls of local officials.
Its been evidenced on the blog that some of our elected officials lie or at least bend the truth. Want to put a stop to it real fast... institute the power of a recall. Suspect shady backroom deals... you got it... recall.
Its democratic, you think you're on to something nefarious, talking to the people that can limit your time to speak and ignore you when you're done talking is not the way to get fair assessments or stop plastic turf.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/recall-of-state-officials.aspx
"Recall is a procedure that allows citizens to remove and replace a public official before the end of a term of office. Historically, recall has been used most frequently at the local level. By some estimates, three-fourths of recall elections are at the city council or school board level."
11:40, that is my point!
Of course, I don't believe Elaine has all the emails. It doesn't matter. Franklin says the commissioners WILL TELL YOU they received a majority of letters for turf and a big segment of the community will believe it, whether its true or not.
A big strategy in public relations and marketing isn't being honest. Its spinning facts in your favor and getting the word out first and loudest.
(continued)
(continued)
“No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.”
H.L. Mencken, in Chicago Tribune"
I suggest picking up the book "Trust Me, I'm Lying."
What's more difficult: recall or rejection of turf?
12:33, you tell me.
Are you only interested in turf? If that is the case, fight turf!
If you want fair assessments, taxes, good roads, stormwater handling, and all the other things Elaine mentions at 11:34 I believe lobbying for a recall provision in the Home Rule Charter is the shortest path.
A harder climb certainly, but in the long run the shortest route.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception
Let's not make it any harder than it needs to be. You pack the commission chambers with people who don't want turf, whether it is because of environmental reasons, health reasons, financial reasons, questioning the commissioners' priorities, or give no reason at all. I was a little intimidated by the large crowd on Tuesday night, and people weren't there to object to anything I had done.
Come on, people, get involved.
Elaine
http://www.ct.gov/dph/lib/dph/environmental_health/eoha/pdf/artificial_turf_tech_fs_10-07.pdf
Why didn't any one complain about the rubber fill on the playgrounds? Some folks want to complain just to complain! that is all this blog is about!
That's next, 1:14 PM. Thank you for bringing it to my readers' attention.
Elaine
I have learned that people with latex allergies can no longer walk for Relay for Life. Children who have latex allergies and asthma will not be able to participate in band, outdoor gym activities, or field sports. In addition, with the swimming pool 50 yards away from these fields, the particulates from the organic or synthetic turf will affect the air quality surrounding our new pool facility.
Also, please read Charlotte Stephenson's letter to the commissioners.
Elaine
Perhaps someone should inform Mrs Stephenson that 80% of children with asthma have allergies. And that almost 40% of kids are allergic to grass.
Elaine,
Over the past years all of the dental offices I have worked in adopted a latex-free policy since so many patients are sensitive to it. From the gloves to the prophy cups used to polish teeth - everything has been changed and all latex products have been eliminated. If anyone doesn't believe this, ask your dentist.
Charlotte
2:47 So let's follow your logic. If 80% of the kids with asthma have allergies and of those 40% are allergic to grass (I am not allergic to grass), what will be the case for the kids who develop asthma from inhaling the black carbon? Will they also develop grass allergies?
Why not come out of the shadows and debate this, or are you a coward?
-Charlotte Stephenson
My asthmatic child's grass allergy is controlled with medication. I am unaware of any immunotherapy for toxic waste.
The school district thought that asbestos was safe too!
2:47 Are you being paid by a synthetic turf company to misstate the % of children allergic to grass? Please site your references because I have up to date data that indicates you are grossly, ridiculously wrong.
There's no treatment for black carbon inhalation.
2:47 Here's another idea, go find a freshly installed chemical-laden turf surface, lie down on it and have someone pile large boulders on your chest until you can barely pass air in and out of your lungs. See how that feels and while you are struggling to breathe say real loud how much you feel like playing on artificial turf.
-Charlotte Stephenson
The school district lost a law suit against the company that sold them the asbestos. They settled the case for peanuts. The lawyers on the other side of the case were drinking heavily because they were so surprised they won the case. Think about the asbestos law suit the district lost when they appoint Tommie solicitor for another year.
Charlotte and All,
Are you aware that the Mt. Lebanon Administrative Code (i.e. law)in Section 133.3 Duties and Functions, requires the Sports Advisory Board (SAB)"to assist in the continued SAFE provision of athletic opportunities to Mt. Lebanon residents" ? And further, that in Section 125.2 Advisory Nature of Boards, the SAB "shall have the authority and responsibility to make findings of fact, express opinions, and make recommendations to the Commission within areas of responsibility assigned to such boards. Such findings of fact, opinions or recommendations shall be in writing." Note the words "shall".
Are you or anyone else aware that the SAB have provided written findings of fact or opinions that artificial turf and/or crumb rubber infill is "SAFE" ? It is important to make such a determination and obtain evidence of it in the event of toxic tort claims against Mt. Lebanon as a result of turf installation at Wildcat/Middle Fields.
You may want to consider submitting a Right To Know (RTK) request to Mr. Feller asap.
Bill Lewis
Thank you for pointing that out, Bill. Here is a pdf of the Administrative Code pertaining to the SAB. Administrative Code SAB
God forbid any kid gets sick, just print out all the posts and warnings on this blog and your attorney will thank you.
Elaine
Here is a pdf of Bill's reference to Section 125.2 Advisory Nature of Boards.
The only thing the SAB has done has been to minimize every warning this blog (Lebo Citizens) and Kelly Fraasch's blog have posted. Where are their facts? Prove to us that it is safe, Dave, Dave, Dave, John, John, Tim, Chip, Kristen... Oh wait. You have. You provide marketing material from turf companies. Yeah, that'll fly in court.
Elaine
Excellent point, Mr. Lewis.
What happens when its uncovered that those "SAFE" recommendations aren't in written form? And if they are in writing do we wait for kids to get sick playing on turf so we can prove their recommendations were faulty or launch a lawsuit now?
Not fighting you, just wondering where we go from here.
At the extreme risk of being called Franklin's pal, what more does the SAB have to do than provide these studies posted on FieldTurf's web site?
http://www.fieldturf.com/en/innovation/research-and-studies
Would those studies not fulfill the SAB's obligation under Section 125.2?
I don't see anything in the Section that says the SAB has to evaluate studies for their accuracy.
Bill,
As I read the code, if residents have raised concerns regarding health and safety related to the turf project plans of the Commission, it appears that the Commission should perform their due diligence and require a written report from the SAB declaring the turf project "safe". Has anyone asked the Commissioners for this? That may be a good place to start. It seems with all of the literature out there it would be negligent for the Commissioners not to.
-Charlotte Stephenson
Show up at the next commissioner meeting and make your voice heard IF you believe you have something to say. Filling the chambers and the the clock with speakers will get everyone's attention. Jousting windmills will do little to change the direction of this small community.
5:27PM I'm not an attorney, have no qualifications or expertise in the technology, medical or environmental aspects associated with artificial turf. Nor do I suffer from allergies, asthma, etc. However, as a parent and grandparent I am sincerely concerned about the safety of turf. Given all this, here is what you might want to think about doing - just a suggestion from a neighbor :
First things first. Make the suggested determination(s) via exercising your Right To Know in the prescribed manner.
If the SAB has submitted written findings of fact on this issue, have it evaluated by competent authorities, legal and scientific. Cooperate with like minded residents, form an association and together have prepared by independent, authoritative and professional entities, organizations or persons findings for you and/or your group. The material Commissioner Fraasch posted on her blog on 3/13/2014 would be a good reference and starting point. Then, compare the findings, and seek opinions from your legal counsel on next steps should turf be installed and then illness and/or injuries occur as a direct result.
If the SAB has not submitted written findings of fact or opinions attesting to the definite safety of turf systems they are proposing and intend to have purchased and installed, and the Municipality has not required them to do so by formal notice, then to me Mt. Lebanon would be a potential complicit and equally responsible party. For starters, they would have failed to enforce their own laws. And it could very well get worse from that point on for both the Municipality and the Commissioners directly involved in the turf project
Retain and follow the advise of competent counsel by all means.
Questions and arguments about turf health and safety have been major open topics and debates in this community for several years. Those of you who are particularly at risk have got to take it to a new and much higher level !
So to get honesty and transparency from our local officials, first step- we must file RTKs.
Then after having exercised our right to know, we must engage legal counselor to determine if we can stop something we're not in favor of or advise on the next steps to force our officials to follow codes.
Wow what a plan. Lets see the zoning board rejected the school district's renovation plans because they didn't meet parking requirements.
The board pursued legal intervention, the commissioners defended and it all ended up costing taxpayers around $50,000, not including the courts time.
Yeah, that's the way to do it, what a great system of governance.
So lets see 7:22 what should we call this new system of governing... Rube GoldbergIsm?
Anyone remember this article?
http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/3663123-74/charles-shop-hobby
Here is a select quote from the piece. The last line sums up the entire basis for the Daves(Turf and Turfette) and their project.
After 68 years in Dormont and Mt. Lebanon, staff at A.B. Charles Hobby Shop spent the past week emptying a big red barn full of models, magazines and parts, moving the store to a smaller space in Peters, where owner Scott Charles hopes he'll find lower taxes and an affluent clientele.
“It's the Cranberry of the South Hills,” Charles said. “Canonsburg has more Mercedeses than Mt. Lebanon now.”
7:22 PM, I think Eckert Seamans may also be a potential complicit and equally responsible party.
Elaine
I've made my complaint to the Allegheny County Health Dept.
Complaints sent here will help residents across communities in this region.
http://www.achd.net/newweb/contactForm.html
With our local commissioners who are more concerned with winning sporting events than health, we need all the help we can get.
Don't let this issue end up like the one going on right now in Indiana Township in which they've got chemicals being dumped and fly ash impacting their air and water. Jim Thompson, dept director of environmental programs from ACHD said in response to their public complaints:
“To tell the truth, we have not been receiving complaints about fly ash in the community. Friday was the first time we were made aware of it.”
Thank you, 9:58 PM. Excellent idea.
Sadly, 8:06 PM, that seems to be the system around here. It's the high school project all over again. Same cast of characters.
Elaine
I just received this email from Dave Franklin:
Elaine:
I will politely and informally request that your last blog post regarding my law firm be removed. It is baseless, and without merit. If you are unwilling to remove the post, I will speak with my partners tomorrow to determine if they believe it is necessary to take more formal action. That will be their decision, not mine. Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.
Dave Franklin
I merely included a link to your email to Kristen Linfante which I received from a RTK, Dave.
Elaine
I stand corrected. The email sent from your office was to the entire commission, which I received from my Right To Know.
Elaine
Sounds like the only formal action Eckert Seamans should take is to tell Franklin to quit sending personal e-mails from their office thus bringing them into the controversy!
Sounds like Franklin was offering his legal opinion on the EPA warning.
OK Dave Franklin this is WHERE I was directed by the EPA Rep .... http://www.peer.org/news/news-releases/2013/12/23/epa-retracts-synthetic-turf-safety-assurances/
Dave, you made your own bed.
Wow what a nice community and its all over providing a place with grass or plastic turf for kids to play sports.
I'm proud to say I live in Mt. Lebanon.
11:20 PM, it's all over providing a SAFE place for kids to play sports.
Elaine
A safe and affordable place to play sports.
Somehow though its turned into something so much more rediculous.
Crown jewels, escalating home values, prestige, realtor tours, naming rights, advertising signs, domes.
Charlotte, Thank you for your comments and to those who have questioned the due diligence behind putting artificial on a perfectly good field.
Constance Spicuous Consumption
Elaine It's over a small minority of kids... Dave Brumfield's kids. Dave Franklin's kids. They turf these fields then EVERY Mt Lebanon resident including the 90+ year-olds better be able to access them! We can Turf Bingo. Turf Square Dancing. Turf Golf. My favorite... Turf sunbathing.
Elaine,
You didn't just link to the email, you said Eckart might be a complicit party to something that is illegal.
That's different than saying, "hey, check out this email from Dave that he is sending around from his Eckart Seamans account" which is what your original defense was.
Saying Eckart is a complicit and responsible party is much different than linking to an email.
Consider leaving the link up but rephrasing the post.
I still don't understand why they wouldn't try turfing Brafferton or Robb Hollow...wait--on seconf thought, I get it. Peoplr driving by wouldn't be able to see it. Duh. This isn't about practicality. It's about "me too" in light of two of ourneighboring communities--two--having tured fields. I drive by one of them pretty frequently and nobody is ever there.
It is only "ridiculous" if you don't know how to spell.
It's one thing to oppose turf (which I do - based on fiscal responsibility more than anything), it's another thing to find tenuous links to get people in trouble with their employer. So Dave sent an email from his work address - big deal. There's no reason to drag his employer into this and gleefully look for ways to get him in hot water. What's the end game here? He gets fired? Reprimanded? Because you didn't like his tactics as a commissioner? Come on, guys. I feel like every time some controversy comes up, a commenter hints that a complaint should be filed with the Supreme Court of PA so that his professional license can get revoked. I don't like these kind of tactics - it's underhanded and mean-spirited. And if your argument is that the commissioners are also under-handed - then you are no better than them.
8:03 AM, that's what you got from 11:41 PM's comment?
6:01 AM, Dave Franklin signed his name on that email
David P. Franklin, Esq.
Eckert Seamans
Clearly, it was not just a personal email. He never signed any of his other personal emails sent from his law firm's account with such formality. In that email, he has involved his law firm. He was making an official statement that the EPA did not retract its 2009 study and attached the EPA's key findings to his "EPA On Turf" email.
Elaine
Thank you good neighbor 8:03, for pointing out my foible.
I'll be sure to end my comments with an apology for any mistakes just like one of the commissioners so you won't have to point them out for me. OK?
You are, of course, correct on the spelling, but whether its spelled "rediculous" or re-dick-u-lOHs or some other botched effort... the thought stands. This is nuts, this is not the way a 'community' remains a community.
Lying, deceptions, RTKs, name-calling, bullying, legal threats-- this isn't the Mt. Lebanon I thought I moved to.
I wonder, can a realtor drive prospective homeowners through a community's psyche?
Please excuse my spelling, grammar and typing errors.
To me, the most important message here is that the EPA said this in it's press release:
We created a study protocol. A protocol -- and we feel it is reliable. But the results from 2009 CANNOT be extended beyond the results of the four study fields.
The EPA in 2009 created a STUDY PROTOCOL. They did not study the impact of crumb rubber on child health and development.
A STUDY PROTOCOL is not a STUDY that provides answers to questions consumers, residents and parents have about the safety of synthetic turf to human and environmental health.
This is WHY the PEER group went to a lot of effort to ensure the EPA made this clear by issuing follow-up press releases many years later.
I'm with 8:39 on this, I oppose aartificial turf primarily on the spending issue.
If we're talking $1.2 million on artificial grass that will wear out in 8-10 years-- we're talking about spending somewhere around $120,000-$150,000 per year on an atheletic field for kids games.
Under the old YSA, we as a community didn't spend $90,000 annually on every sports field in the community!
Now we're going to spend $120,000/year on just one and that figure doesn't include year maintenance, just installation.
It is just damn crazy and I don't know how to spell.
Yeah I know 8:03... There are typos in my 9:22 comment.
I beat you to it... Nyah, nyah, nyah, poo-poo!
Yes, we will be replacing the toxic turf every eight years or the equivalent of two commission terms. That is just at Middle and Wildcat. As I said on November 25, this isn't a sixteen year plan, it's a forever plan.
I urge everyone to read Commissioner Fraasch's concerns on crumb rubber infill. Keep in mind that even organic infill is only one component of synthetic turf. The only true organic turf is natural grass.
Elaine
I am still waiting to see if the SAB has "provided written findings of fact or opinions that artificial turf and/or crumb rubber infill is "SAFE" ? It is important to make such a determination and obtain evidence of it in the event of toxic tort claims against Mt. Lebanon as a result of turf installation at Wildcat/Middle Fields."
I am pretty burned out from filing RTKs, so I am counting on readers to follow up.
Elaine
Let me see if I can figure this out.
Artificial turf at WC/M is proposed to cost $1,200,000. Correct?
It is supposed to last 8-10 years. Correct?
At a minimum annually that breaks down to $120,000/year. Correct?
The SAB claims 3,400 kids play field sports. Correct?
$120,000 / 3,400 = $35.30 per player per year.
Can't the players that want this pay for it on their own without putting the cuff on other residents that are OK with grass or don't give a damn if it is turfed or not?
I know parents that'll drop more than that for one night of beer drinking on Washington Road.
9:48
Just imagine if the Commission spent even HALF that $120,000 on actually maintaining the current field.
It would be the best field in all the south hills!
As for Eckert, why poke a bear?
Part of me wants the partners there to know this is going on. Part of me thinks you are actually trying to get him to sue. I think he is waiting eagerly for someone to defame and accuse him of breaking the law and I think he is smart enough to NOT break the law. Ethics and tact are different matters altogether. But the man has not broken the law and suggesting that he and his law firm is doing just that is likely crossing the line.
Just my two cents.
I didn't say anything about breaking the law, 10:10 AM. Please see my comment from 8:42 AM. That is all I am going to say on the matter. Let's stay focused on the real issue here, OK? We have a commission majority forcing upon us, a project using our tax dollars, with no concern for safety, using municipal contractors to fund a private share of the project, with no notification of neighboring homes, not informing the entire commission, and using over-tax dollars that would not pass with a super vote for a project that holds the municipality responsible in perpetuity. Call it whatever you want. I think it stinks.
Elaine
10:10, there are 'neighbors' in this community that salivate over suing or filing police complaints. Then at of the other side of their mouth proclaim they're building a community, as though Mt. Lebanon hasn't been around for 100 years.
But, back to the main point. I agree with you, I can't imagine what annual expenditures of just $30,000, $40,000 or $50,000 worth of care would do for the conditions at WC/M.
Even with artificial turf there is probably $7,000 or so needed in annual maintenance.
10:10, 9:48 didn't mention Eckert.
I don't want anyone suing anybody. My hope is that we can run our little burg without attorney generals, ethics committees or torchings, lynchings or slanderings.
But it seems that is the path we are on.
If I had to make the decision to move here again... I wouldn't.
Here is a prime example of where things go off the tracks and cause problems.
http://www.post-gazette.com/neighborhoods-south/2012/05/10/Advertisements-coming-to-school-municipal-fields-in-Mt-Lebanon/stories/201205100327
"Mr. Brumfield, who introduced the ordinance, said each sign could bring in between $1,000 to $5,000 each year, depending on its size. The money collected from advertisers, for example, could help the municipality improve drainage -- a major concern for residents -- at a field every year, he added."
• "could help [THE MUNICIPALITY] improve drainage, a major concern for residents..."
Any mention, even a hint of helping the sports groups meet their "non-public" share of turfing?
Yeah, one could argue the current plan is helping the municipality, but how all of the sudden does the MLCE get involved. There was no mention of the MLCE in the original ordinance.
• Has anyone heard of any discussions of any sign revenue being earmarked to repair drainage issues at any field other than WC/M?
Drainage issues - [A MAJOR CONCERN FOR RESIDENTS] - and there's not been one discussion of fixing drainage except at WC/M. In fact, they cancelled plans to improve Brafferton Field.
So while nothing illegal has occurred, it seems pretty obvious that plans might not have been totally conceived in the bright light of Sunshine!
After all one commissioner indicated they had been working towards this for four years. Wouldn't one think all the t-s had been crossed and all the i-s dotted?
Commission had the Bird Park field drainage a little better. I know she wanted more. I think it was $20,000. During the heavy rains Bird wasn't underwater as it should have been last summer in the former condition. I believe Commissioner Fraasch lead the board on the improvement, but not absolutely sure.
A little better. So how much of that 'little better' $20,000 improvement was funded with field sign revenue and did the check come from the MLCE?
Have any of you actually read the 15 page agreement between the MLCE and the SAB ? It's included in the group of 178 documents Elaine posted.
If so, opinions please.
Here is the link to the agreement. It starts on page 146.
MLCE Project Services Agreement
Elaine
Here is the post about the MLCE agreement.
"Leboleaks" Funding
Elaine
First read..
• The principal office is underassessed based on comps
• Assist in the continued improvement and enhancement of [MUNICIPAL] athletic fields and related recreation spaces within [THE MUNICIPAL PARKS]
• [Assist with the of ? ? ?] SAFE provision of athletic opportunities for Mt. Lebanon residents.
• Utilize the funds to assist with the payment of contractor invoices [LIKE GATEWAY ? ]
• the Project account will be charged a fee of 7% of the grant award for processing and administrative oversight of the grant. [NOMINAL FEE ? ]
So who pays the MLCE the $1000/year fee plus the as needed hourly fee? Would that be David Donnellan since correspondence goes to him or someone from the SAB or ...? What money has already exchanged hands?
Based solely on 6:32's analysis this whole affair is beginning to remind me of "Three Card Monte" or short con with residents playing the role of the Mark.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-card_Monte
Why don't we simplify this whole deal if indeed the majority want turf at Wildcat.
The municipality has $750,000. It uses that and floats a bond for the balance of installing turf.
Then to pay for this "crown jewel" it charges every sports participant (3,400 players) a $35 turf surcharge.
We cut out the Middleman (MLCE). Everything is done up front and out in the open.
Then the field sign revenue is used as it was orginally intended and any grants uncovered can go into a pot for future turf maintenance or field improvements.
So if MLCE gets a $200,000 grant they are going to skim $14,000 from the donor's gift?
Who thinks donors are dumb enough to give $14,000 to make a $200,000 gift?
What would the Pittsburgh Foundation charge for the same services?
We are going to have to find some real suckers to take that deal.
Remember when Duquesne Light donated $220,000 toward the Veterans Memorial Fund?
Utility grant to brighten Mt. Lebanon veterans memorial
Did someone take a cut from that donation? Who manages those funds?
Elaine
Is this an opportunity for the MLCE to recoup their $10,000 donation to the Feasibility Study?
The donors for the feasibility study are...
Elaine
Elaine, As a frame of reference for newcomers to the school district finances, can you confirm the cost of removing asbestos from the high school? Is it only being removed from the high school? Do other schools have this issue? I raise this issue because it sounds like it is more costly to remove asbestos as it is to install materials including asbestos. If this is the case, could it be assumed that removing contamination due to a crumb rubber/synthetic field would be more costly in the long-run than the initial construction?
I heard last night from some sports people that they think this is all rubbish!
National Recreation and Park Association's (NRPA) standards are used to assess the need for park and recreation facilities. Many communities have adopted standards based on the National Recreation and Park Association's (NRPA) guidelines.
The NRPA suggests a classification system for parks. These range from mini-parks to regional and national parks. In addition to NRPA criteria, Park and Recreation standards should be based on the following:
• Relevance. They should reflect the needs and lifestyles of today's residents.
• People Orientation. They should reflect the unique needs and preferences of people in the
area being served.
• Performance Standards. They should provide a basis for measuring achievement of
community objectives. They should measure the quality of recreation service rather than
simply the quantity.
• Feasibility. They should be attainable within a reasonable timeframe and with available
funding sources.
• Practicality. They should be simple to understand and apply. They should be based on
sound planning principles, information and a credible development process. They should also be flexible enough to handle unanticipated situations and rapidly changing needs.
11:49 AM The cost of removing asbestos in the high school project will be somewhere between $6-$7 million, as I recall. You can probably make a more precise determination if you visit and study the school district website high school project links or tabs.
You might also achieve more knowledge about turf infill by visiting and studying Commissioner Kelly Fraasch's comprehensive blog link about infill posted on this blog, or visit Commissioner Fraasch's blog itself.
And finally, how about attending Commission meetings and sharing your opinions with Commissioners and staff, and the attending and viewing public.
Yes, other school districts have to remove asbestos in major remodeling and renovation projects.
Commissioner Kelly Fraasch has updated her blog with six videos about artificial turf. Click here for her post.
Here is a link to her blog. Commissioner Kelly Fraasch's blog
11:49 AM, asbestos removal has been ongoing. If you want more information about asbestos abatement in the schools, I am sure that members of the Environmental Sustainability Board can provide any information you need. Let's just say, it wasn't pretty, March 19 at 11:49 AM.
Elaine
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