Saturday, January 16, 2016

So I ask again...

This is how I have been spending my weekend. Part of this email exchange was published in a previous post. 
I also found out that Tony DeNicola is not a hunter, but a culler, so we will be forced to pay a processing fee of approximately $70 per deer.

From: egillen476 <>
To: commission <>
Cc: repmiller <>; alauth <>; TSteinhauer <>; kmcgill <>
Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2016 6:41 pm
Subject: Re: Do you EVER do any research?

Commissioner Fraasch,

I can't seem to get a straight answer about establishing a curfew since the commission feels they need to protect the property owner over the safety of our children. I know that other residents have asked the same question. As you pointed out during the last commission meeting, your child, like most kids, like to visit friends or play outside after school. My kids loved to socialize after school and would have play dates either at our house or at friend's houses. If the weather was dry, they would ride bikes, skateboard, or play ball in the neighborhood.

During the first cull ten years ago, the hours for shooting were 9 PM to 6 AM, Sunday night through Thursday night. There was no archery program killing 102 deer. The first year, with the goal of 75 dead deer, 69 deer were killed. The second year, the goal of 150 deer was not met with 145 dead deer and one dead deer found on Lindendale making a total of 146 dead deer. Both years, the goals were not met - without a hunt beforehand. I don't understand the need to start one half hour after the elementary schools get out. 

So I ask again. Will you have a curfew?


-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Mcgill <>
To: egillen476 <>
Cc: Commission <>; repmiller <>; Andrew McCreery <>; Aaron Lauth <>; tsteinhauer <>
Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2016 12:41 pm
Subject: Re: Do you EVER do any research?

Good afternoon,
Ms. Gillen,
Public parks not being used for the program will not be posted. Unlike the archery program, this is not a hunting program. Only posted parks may be used.

The police department will be the municipal lead related to the public safety aspect of the program. As such, the police department will be establishing appropriate safety protocols related to the program.


On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 11:12 AM, <> wrote:

Thank you for your quick responses. Such a change from our former manager! I appreciate that, Keith.

Please clarify. Will you have two sets of signage for the public properties as you did for the corrals? You had warning signs, and then you had "No Trespassing" signs closer to the shooting sites. Will you post "No Trespassing" signs that are not in the Federal 1000 feet Gun Free School Zones? Will you have signage that lets children and parents know which areas are Gun Free Zones at the parks and golf course where the shooting will occur? Will you have signage in the public parks indicating that there will be no shooting in those parks, as you have for the archery program?

And finally, will you be establishing a 4:00 curfew for our community because of the shooting on private properties starting at 4:00 PM? Or will dismissal be earlier now in the elementary schools? They get out at approximately 3:25 or 3:30 PM.

Elaine Gillen

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Mcgill <>
To: egillen476 <>
Cc: Commission <>; repmiller <>; Andrew McCreery <>; Aaron Lauth <>; tsteinhauer <>; Susan Morgans <>
Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2016 10:46 am
Subject: Re: Do you EVER do any research?

Good morning Ms. Gillen,
Mt. Lebanon did not pay a processing fee for the deer that were donated as part of the archery program. As to the program you referenced, based on my research my understanding is that this program is only available to hunters, such as the archers, and is intended to encourage them to donate the deer removed through hunting to Hunters Sharing the Harvest,
Unfortunately the same program is not offered in conjunction with a cull utilizing sharpshooters as this is not hunting and the Game Commission typically mandates the donation of deer removed in these types of programs to Hunters Sharing the Harvest or their representatives, as is the case with the permit issued to Mt. Lebanon.
White Buffalo has indicated that the processing fee will be approximately $70.00/deer.
As to communication and information on the upcoming sharpshooting program a communication plan has been developed. As part of that plan staff is currently revising the FAQ's to reflect additional information related to the program. It is anticipated that the FAQ's and notification to schools, neighboring communities, etc. should be completed next week.

The permit issued by the Game Commission allows baiting to begin January 24th and culling to begin February 1st, Appropriate signage for the public properties that were approved (McNeilly Park, Golf Course, Robb Hollow Park and the adjacent Public Works property) has been ordered and will be posted in advance of the start of the program. The parks will remain open until normal hours during the program.

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 10:10 AM, <> wrote:
Sorry for the duplicate email, but I failed to copy our police chief and our superintendent even though it will confuse him again.

Elaine Gillen

-----Original Message-----
From: egillen476 <>
To: kmcgill <>
Cc: commission <>; repmiller <>; amccreery <>
Sent: Sat, Jan 16, 2016 10:07 am
Subject: Re: Do you EVER do any research?

Good morning Keith,

I am following up on a few things. 

Did Mt. Lebanon pay for any deer processing fees for the archery program?

As of this morning, I still do not see any hours posted for the "sharpshooting" program. In a previous email chain that a resident had with Dr. Steinhauer, our superintendent was confused that he was being questioned about the archery program and that we were to direct all questions to the municipality. So here are my questions concerning the safety of our school children. When will you be issuing a statement to the parents concerning the hours of operation for the "sharpshooting" program? Will you be establishing a 4:00 curfew for children?

Will you be closing the parks at 6PM? Will you be putting up No Trespassing signs, as you had with the corrals?

Elaine Gillen

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Mcgill <>
To: egillen476 <>
Cc: Commission <>; repmiller <>
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 7:52 am
Subject: Re: Do you EVER do any research?

Good morning Elaine,
Thank you for providing the information. I will discuss with White Buffalo and provide a response to everyone.

On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 6:53 AM, <> wrote:

You never cease to amaze me at your lack of due diligence. Tony DeNicola will be charging us for processing fees of up to $100 per deer or up to $15,000 for 150 deer.

There are no processing fees if the meat is donated to Hunters Sharing the Harvest.

As announced last season, HSH is proud to continue with the elimination of the $15 co-payrequested from hunters in the past when donating a deer to the program. Hunters can now drop off a whole deer at one of our participating processors found closest to where you live or hunt. There is no fee, there is no charge to donate a deer thanks to major gifts from the natural gas industry along with the PA Game Commission and exceptional yearly support of major corporate sponsors, partners, sportsmen’s clubs and 1000s of individuals who have contributed financial over the years. When you donate a deer, all we ask is that you sign a receipt provided by the butcher so he/she will be reimbursed at the agreed to rate for processing the donated venison for the program. To find an HSH participating processor, please consult the by-county deer processor page for shop locations, or call our toll-free number for more information. That’s it.

The closest participating processor is: 


Kip's Deer Processing
Kip Padgelek
3 Saint John's Drive
Carnegie, PA 15106
This is the same processor that Merlin Benner used.
Elaine Gillen


Keith McGill, AICP
Municipal Manager/Municipal Planner


Anonymous said...

The lucky deer on Jekyll Island (a favorite place to vacation):

Anonymous said...

In regards to the police being the -"municipal lead related to the public safety aspect of the program".
if the safety program is not made public (with locations of the properties) then it should not be called 'public safety'.
when i walk my kids to daycare in the morning i have no idea if there is an active shooter in the adjacent yards.
there is no reason to feel safe b/c there is no information provided to base this on. all i can do is wonder, and scan the trees.